Been following this 180 method since I got my 1st Polar HRM back in 1987 at age 30 , now at age 62 even more vital to keep the HR in the 80% or less for heart health. Girlfriend is a cardio othro rehab RN 25 plus old school years , so she has shared her knowledge with me and seeing many triathletes in 34 yrs get injured , with knee's , hip's and hearts damaged because of going over 80% HR for years on end. Not training to keep being younger , but train to keep from feeling older and most of all healthy
i guess Im asking the wrong place but does someone know of a trick to get back into an Instagram account..? I was dumb forgot my account password. I would love any help you can give me
Excellent information Mark, thanks. Stumbled on your channel and will benefit from the info as I am new to Mac but do train almost solely with HR. Been racing since the 80s and been big fan of you and Dave Scott and your epic battles.
That can be so true especially when you first start training by heart rate and these zones. It can feel very difficult to get the HR up on the bike and like you are almost walking to keep it down on the run. But over time as you gain aerobic fitness (the ability to burn fat for fuel) that changes.
Just saw Gustav Iden Strava run 7.72miles 6:33 pace Heart Rate average 127bpm max HR 139. How did he get that fast at 25? His run style is beautiful to watch.
That is pretty incredible. My guess is that he's been training smart for years now, meaning he's been working on that aerobic base since he was a kid and likely not overdoing the anaerobic work, which if done too much of will actually erode that aerobic physiology. So he could easily already have 10-years of building that base. I didn't start training that way until I was about 26. The process is slow, but so worth taking the time to do it.
@@therealmarkallen Tell me about it! I'm 66 now and started base building at 60. I wore a heart rate monitor for years but I still went too fast. Love your channel!
Hi mark great video, how should we target swimming and riding then in terms of perceived effort? Considering the heart rate is lower even at what feels like a hard push in bike or swim compared to run
Up to the aerobic max heart rate, or the top of Z2 if you use zones, the three sports are going to all be at the same HR. However, as you pointed out the perceived effort is going to be much higher swimming and cycling than it is running. That has to do with the weight bearing needs of running, which gets the HR up with less perceived effort. What does change is how high you need your HR to go to get big gains in VO2max. Those take place at much lower heart rates than cycling, and cycling at lower heart rates than running.
Excellent video, thank you for the information. I have some questions. First, some background. At age 56, I can easily push my heart rate to 200-202 if I push hard at the end of my daily 6 mile runs (according to my polar H10 strap). I've checked with my doctor, and I don't have a heart arrhythmia or any other heart problem. In trying to do the 180-age formula, even with the corrections for being injury-free and running 5 -6 days/week, the MAF heart rate is 134. I find it nearly impossible to run at any speed with my heart rate below 140-145 (which I can run all day at). At the same time, when walking, I can only get my heart rate to go over 100 by walking up steep hills. So I have this gap, a no man's land between about 110 (walking up a hill) and 140 when running. I like the idea of low heart rate training because I am able to run almost every day without injury, but I just can't seem to make the MAF formula heart rate work. Is the problem that I am just that inefficient at running??? Am I missing out on the benefits of low heart rate training by running at 140- 145? Should I be running for the few seconds it takes to get above 124 and then walking it back down to avoid going over 134?
@@therealmarkallen Wow! Thank you for such a detailed and specific reply! Far more than I expected. I'd never heard of "max heart rate not being an indication of where to set training zones" before. It seems to be the exclusive marker used nearly everywhere. My takeaway is...keep at it with the low heart rate until I see progress by building my aerobic base. It looks like I'll be taking a lot of walk breaks in the near future...
This is something that is normal when you are starting out with aerobic training like this using heart rate as the limiting factor. If you have been training at a heart rate that is higher than this, then your aerobic pace will initially seem very slow as you are experiencing. It does take time for the physiology to develop and give you more aerobic speed. This is something I had to do initially also when I started using this as a training methodology. I had to slow down over three minutes per mile from my normal daily pace, walk up every hill and could barely jog at the end of a long run without my heart rate skyrocketing over my aerobic max heart rate. But over time that all changed and eventually I was able to run under a 5:30 minute/mile (3:25 minutes/km) pace and still stay aerobic! That said a few things that can help speed this up are to make sure your lifestyle stays as low stress as possible, get good sleep, and avoid big meals (eat smaller more frequent meals) and get enough good oils like olive oil and omega-3 oils. Then on occasion do a short running race and just blow it out with a fast pace. Doing this once every 3-6 weeks will really help boost your overall fitness and improve your pace.
Great video! Much respect Mark!! Just started Maf training after years of anaerobic running with only getting injured every few months then stopping and starting all over again. Love how I feel doing this so far. Question for Mark or community- can you overtrain on Maf? Maybe going up on mileage too fast or going to many miles on consecutive days, etc. Or does your heart rate dictate what you can do? Maybe I would see a decline in performance if doing to much? And How important is it to train at the top end of the formula- say I’m supposed to be at 133- do i need to try to be right there for the whole run or if my run averages that am I doing good. Say I end my run and a lot of it was at 126- is that not giving as much benefit (training my aerobic system)? Thanks!
Does lactate concentration increase directly from not being able to take in enough oxygen for aerobic metabolism? What is it exactly that makes you run out of breath with increased intensity? Is it because your heart is not delivering enough oxygen to muscles?
Yes lactate increases dramatically at the point that you can't clear it, which is related to the speed with which you can get O2 into the body. You can breathe faster and/or deeper, but at some point those two mechanisms fall short of delivering the O2 needed to sustain the pace you are going. And that is when you have that completely run out of breath feeling.
From being a swimmer to a runner I so much am into Maf Running - relax relax relax But my diet now needs advice - as a swimmer was eating 4000 calories a day - I run about 50 miles a week now at Maf pace I don't need the calories ??
My coach has me doing TH run tests every so often. Meaning run for 30min max effort and record avg pace and avg HR. That is the TH pace and HR. My zones are calculated from that. At this time ( 159hr and 4:36min/k ). Just came out of off season ended last october with a HM pr of 1:41 ( 4:47 min/k avg ) This means my Z2 max is 141HR. My age is 43 started training for 70.3 early last year, so “((180-43)+5))= 142HR 😎 I guess for me Maffatone was right. It also feels OK easy sustainable to run at this pace/hr. On the bike I use POWER when I do a endurance Z2 ride based on power my HR avg is 119bpm. The question is: does the body adapt to the muscel load or the HR ?? So should I up the power to het the HR higher on the endurance rides??
Your aerobic zones are going to be the same for both cycling and running. What will be different at any heart rate is the perceived effort though. Running is always lower than cycling.
It is still important to do some running that is aerobic even though in the event it is basically super anaerobic. The mix will be a lot different than for an endurance event, the still important to do a bit of aerobic work. It calms the nervous system down and reduces stress hormones.
Hi Mark, Huge fan here! I was wondering if you could maybe elaborate more on strength training while still sticking to the MAF Method? I have been steadily base-building for about 4 months now at my MAF HR with no noticeable improvements in my day-to-day running pace. After reading Dr. Maffetone's "Big Book of Endurance Training and Racing," I see he mentions that any sort of strength training activity--weights, push ups, sit ups, etc.--is considered anaerobic, "no matter how slow, easy, or light the workload" (pg. 78-79). As such, I'm sure that's probably what's been holding me back since I regularly do 2-3 days of strength training each week, with sit ups performed every morning. So I wanted to ask you, is there any way that I might be able to do both strength training AND the MAF Method for my cardio? Or will I need to choose one or the other? I'm eager to see my daily running pace start to drop like you and so many others describe, so, can't wait to get to the bottom of this! Thanks so much, Mark!! Smith
If you’re using MAF method x4 weekly but still do x2 weekly faster sessions, would that still work? In other words, would combining MAF and 80/20 approach work, assuming that you do 80% of your work using MAF…
Hello Mark . Find you method of explaining how to go about one's training very interesting and intriguing . One quick question if I may . I am currently 59 years old have always been a very active sportsperson. I have since July incorporated this MAF running method in an attempt to become a more efficient runner (and cyclist) but am slightly confused as to why there is a difference between the let's say original MAF formula of 180 -age + 5bpm (as training >2yrs ) and the one you quote in this video of adding an extra 5bpm if older that 55 ? Please don't take me wrong I welcome those extra 5 beats as its fairly difficult to keep below the 126 target . Would you also be able to advise if this new target number would be the same regardless if running or cycling ?..or would there be a further increase in the cycling zones seeing its less weight bearing than running ? Thank you very much Regards Andrew
One question: According to the formula by Philip Maffetone my MAF heart rate is 155. But after reading a lot about your formula (adding beats for age + number of workouts) my MAF comes at 165. Its a 10 beat difference. What do you recommend I follow. My aim is to do triathlon competitively. Thanks
Please can you tell us what we should do if there is absolutely no improvement using HR training? I am a victim of overtraining and had taken a break for a couple of years but I just don’t feel like myself anymore. My calculation: 180-27-5= 148 bpm (LT1) and Z2 138-148bpm but I haven’t experienced any improvement. Please advise.
The perceived effort will always feel harder on the bike at any heart rate compared to what it feels like running. And on a trainer any heart rate will feel harder than it does out on the open road.
Hello Mark, Thanks for this, I am familiar with it, had a bit of triathlon, mainly 70.3 and olympic after my dance career... under your and Luis's guidance (Train Smart Get Results)in 2008 and 2010 (5h05') I didn't do any triathlon since 2013. Stayed in good shape until 2018. Now I am 10kilos heavier and have a lot of travelling for work. I need to start training for my health and own pleasure. My time is very very limited, but I have started biking (up to an hour and a half) and running (up to 45'), I am 48 yo. I put my max at 143bpm but listening to your shed talk it should be 132bpm right? Or can I add a 5bpm more? It is of course for the moment really hard to control that, managed a couple of times Sorry for the long message but thank you in advance for your insight Best wishes
@@therealmarkallen thank you so much for taking the time to answer! I hope to be back to training and work with you in a near future! Thank you again (yesterday 45’ bike managed to stay with max. 131bpm… first time, with running no chance, it slows down to a walk and even though, but will) Best
Am I understanding this right? I’m 45 and I run 5k once every week/2 weeks, therefore my target hr is 135..... I can hit 135bpm walking up the stairs to work..... I’m I really that out of shape?
Been following this 180 method since I got my 1st Polar HRM back in 1987 at age 30 , now at age 62 even more vital to keep the HR in the 80% or less for heart health. Girlfriend is a cardio othro rehab RN 25 plus old school years , so she has shared her knowledge with me and seeing many triathletes in 34 yrs get injured , with knee's , hip's and hearts damaged because of going over 80% HR for years on end. Not training to keep being younger , but train to keep from feeling older and most of all healthy
This is an underrated channel and series. I wish TH-cam had recommended it to me earlier!
i guess Im asking the wrong place but does someone know of a trick to get back into an Instagram account..?
I was dumb forgot my account password. I would love any help you can give me
NO. ITS SIMPLY 'UNDISCOVERED'.
This is gold. Can't believe the great mark allen has just 2.5k subs!
Excellent information Mark, thanks. Stumbled on your channel and will benefit from the info as I am new to Mac but do train almost solely with HR. Been racing since the 80s and been big fan of you and Dave Scott and your epic battles.
Brilliant info, thankyou so much. I’m a couple of weeks in and this confirmed I’m on the right path. 🙏
Awesome!
True Master. Thank You.
Fantastic channel! Thanks Mark for teaching us how to enjoy running.
Super 😁 thanks
Great advice - many thanks for posting. All I really need to know to start training sensibly.
Wow true about percieved effort on bike vs run on bike it feels like im dying at similar heartrates to running
That can be so true especially when you first start training by heart rate and these zones. It can feel very difficult to get the HR up on the bike and like you are almost walking to keep it down on the run. But over time as you gain aerobic fitness (the ability to burn fat for fuel) that changes.
You da man, Mark!
I calculated my MAF and checked my Apple Watch app. The app predicted the same number as my high-range Zone 2, MAF. Whoa, technology!
Glad the tech lined up with what i suggested!
Just saw Gustav Iden Strava run 7.72miles 6:33 pace Heart Rate average 127bpm max HR 139. How did he get that fast at 25? His run style is beautiful to watch.
That is pretty incredible. My guess is that he's been training smart for years now, meaning he's been working on that aerobic base since he was a kid and likely not overdoing the anaerobic work, which if done too much of will actually erode that aerobic physiology. So he could easily already have 10-years of building that base.
I didn't start training that way until I was about 26. The process is slow, but so worth taking the time to do it.
@@therealmarkallen Tell me about it! I'm 66 now and started base building at 60. I wore a heart rate monitor for years but I still went too fast. Love your channel!
Thanks from Corsica.
i wish wahoo would put a led light to show your hr on the chest device : that sounds nice
That would be cool!
Hi mark great video, how should we target swimming and riding then in terms of perceived effort? Considering the heart rate is lower even at what feels like a hard push in bike or swim compared to run
Up to the aerobic max heart rate, or the top of Z2 if you use zones, the three sports are going to all be at the same HR. However, as you pointed out the perceived effort is going to be much higher swimming and cycling than it is running. That has to do with the weight bearing needs of running, which gets the HR up with less perceived effort. What does change is how high you need your HR to go to get big gains in VO2max. Those take place at much lower heart rates than cycling, and cycling at lower heart rates than running.
Excellent video, thank you for the information. I have some questions. First, some background. At age 56, I can easily push my heart rate to 200-202 if I push hard at the end of my daily 6 mile runs (according to my polar H10 strap). I've checked with my doctor, and I don't have a heart arrhythmia or any other heart problem. In trying to do the 180-age formula, even with the corrections for being injury-free and running 5 -6 days/week, the MAF heart rate is 134. I find it nearly impossible to run at any speed with my heart rate below 140-145 (which I can run all day at). At the same time, when walking, I can only get my heart rate to go over 100 by walking up steep hills. So I have this gap, a no man's land between about 110 (walking up a hill) and 140 when running. I like the idea of low heart rate training because I am able to run almost every day without injury, but I just can't seem to make the MAF formula heart rate work. Is the problem that I am just that inefficient at running??? Am I missing out on the benefits of low heart rate training by running at 140- 145? Should I be running for the few seconds it takes to get above 124 and then walking it back down to avoid going over 134?
@@therealmarkallen
Wow! Thank you for such a detailed and specific reply! Far more than I expected. I'd never heard of "max heart rate not being an indication of where to set training zones" before. It seems to be the exclusive marker used nearly everywhere. My takeaway is...keep at it with the low heart rate until I see progress by building my aerobic base. It looks like I'll be taking a lot of walk breaks in the near future...
This is something that is normal when you are starting out with aerobic training like this using heart rate as the limiting factor. If you have been training at a heart rate that is higher than this, then your aerobic pace will initially seem very slow as you are experiencing. It does take time for the physiology to develop and give you more aerobic speed. This is something I had to do initially also when I started using this as a training methodology. I had to slow down over three minutes per mile from my normal daily pace, walk up every hill and could barely jog at the end of a long run without my heart rate skyrocketing over my aerobic max heart rate. But over time that all changed and eventually I was able to run under a 5:30 minute/mile (3:25 minutes/km) pace and still stay aerobic!
That said a few things that can help speed this up are to make sure your lifestyle stays as low stress as possible, get good sleep, and avoid big meals (eat smaller more frequent meals) and get enough good oils like olive oil and omega-3 oils. Then on occasion do a short running race and just blow it out with a fast pace. Doing this once every 3-6 weeks will really help boost your overall fitness and improve your pace.
Great video! Much respect Mark!! Just started Maf training after years of anaerobic running with only getting injured every few months then stopping and starting all over again. Love how I feel doing this so far. Question for Mark or community- can you overtrain on Maf? Maybe going up on mileage too fast or going to many miles on consecutive days, etc. Or does your heart rate dictate what you can do? Maybe I would see a decline in performance if doing to much? And How important is it to train at the top end of the formula- say I’m supposed to be at 133- do i need to try to be right there for the whole run or if my run averages that am I doing good. Say I end my run and a lot of it was at 126- is that not giving as much benefit (training my aerobic system)?
Thanks!
Mark Allen Coaching - got it- thank you!! 👍
Does lactate concentration increase directly from not being able to take in enough oxygen for aerobic metabolism?
What is it exactly that makes you run out of breath with increased intensity?
Is it because your heart is not delivering enough oxygen to muscles?
Yes lactate increases dramatically at the point that you can't clear it, which is related to the speed with which you can get O2 into the body. You can breathe faster and/or deeper, but at some point those two mechanisms fall short of delivering the O2 needed to sustain the pace you are going. And that is when you have that completely run out of breath feeling.
From being a swimmer to a runner I so much am into Maf Running - relax relax relax
But my diet now needs advice - as a swimmer was eating 4000 calories a day - I run about 50 miles a week now at Maf pace I don't need the calories ??
Thanks Mark, great content! Is this 155bpm the same in running and cycling?
My coach has me doing TH run tests every so often. Meaning run for 30min max effort and record avg pace and avg HR. That is the TH pace and HR. My zones are calculated from that. At this time ( 159hr and 4:36min/k ). Just came out of off season ended last october with a HM pr of 1:41 ( 4:47 min/k avg )
This means my Z2 max is 141HR. My age is 43 started training for 70.3 early last year, so “((180-43)+5))= 142HR 😎
I guess for me Maffatone was right.
It also feels OK easy sustainable to run at this pace/hr.
On the bike I use POWER when I do a endurance Z2 ride based on power my HR avg is 119bpm.
The question is: does the body adapt to the muscel load or the HR ?? So should I up the power to het the HR higher on the endurance rides??
Your aerobic zones are going to be the same for both cycling and running. What will be different at any heart rate is the perceived effort though. Running is always lower than cycling.
How can we apply this approach to middle distance events (800m)?
It is still important to do some running that is aerobic even though in the event it is basically super anaerobic. The mix will be a lot different than for an endurance event, the still important to do a bit of aerobic work. It calms the nervous system down and reduces stress hormones.
Hi Mark,
Huge fan here!
I was wondering if you could maybe elaborate more on strength training while still sticking to the MAF Method?
I have been steadily base-building for about 4 months now at my MAF HR with no noticeable improvements in my day-to-day running pace. After reading Dr. Maffetone's "Big Book of Endurance Training and Racing," I see he mentions that any sort of strength training activity--weights, push ups, sit ups, etc.--is considered anaerobic, "no matter how slow, easy, or light the workload" (pg. 78-79). As such, I'm sure that's probably what's been holding me back since I regularly do 2-3 days of strength training each week, with sit ups performed every morning. So I wanted to ask you, is there any way that I might be able to do both strength training AND the MAF Method for my cardio? Or will I need to choose one or the other?
I'm eager to see my daily running pace start to drop like you and so many others describe, so, can't wait to get to the bottom of this!
Thanks so much, Mark!!
Smith
If you’re using MAF method x4 weekly but still do x2 weekly faster sessions, would that still work? In other words, would combining MAF and 80/20 approach work, assuming that you do 80% of your work using MAF…
Hello Mark .
Find you method of explaining how to go about one's training very interesting and intriguing .
One quick question if I may .
I am currently 59 years old have always been a very active sportsperson. I have since July incorporated this MAF running method in an attempt to become a more efficient runner (and cyclist) but am slightly confused as to why there is a difference between the let's say original MAF formula of 180 -age + 5bpm (as training >2yrs ) and the one you quote in this video of adding an extra 5bpm if older that 55 ?
Please don't take me wrong I welcome those extra 5 beats as its fairly difficult to keep below the 126 target .
Would you also be able to advise if this new target number would be the same regardless if running or cycling ?..or would there be a further increase in the cycling zones seeing its less weight bearing than running ?
Thank you very much
Regards
Andrew
@@therealmarkallen Appreciate your time in replying thanks you
One question:
According to the formula by Philip Maffetone my MAF heart rate is 155. But after reading a lot about your formula (adding beats for age + number of workouts) my MAF comes at 165. Its a 10 beat difference. What do you recommend I follow. My aim is to do triathlon competitively.
Thanks
Please can you tell us what we should do if there is absolutely no improvement using HR training? I am a victim of overtraining and had taken a break for a couple of years but I just don’t feel like myself anymore.
My calculation: 180-27-5= 148 bpm (LT1) and Z2 138-148bpm but I haven’t experienced any improvement.
Please advise.
I hope you are enjoying the training with me now Shravan! You are seeing the improvements that come from slowing down to get faster!
Enjoying every bit. Thank you Sir.
@@shravandevjani9952 Awesome!
My MAF heart rate on the bike doesn’t feel easy especially on the indoor bike trainer. Is this normal?
The perceived effort will always feel harder on the bike at any heart rate compared to what it feels like running. And on a trainer any heart rate will feel harder than it does out on the open road.
Hello Mark,
Thanks for this, I am familiar with it, had a bit of triathlon, mainly 70.3 and olympic after my dance career... under your and Luis's guidance (Train Smart Get Results)in 2008 and 2010 (5h05')
I didn't do any triathlon since 2013. Stayed in good shape until 2018. Now I am 10kilos heavier and have a lot of travelling for work. I need to start training for my health and own pleasure. My time is very very limited, but I have started biking (up to an hour and a half) and running (up to 45'), I am 48 yo. I put my max at 143bpm but listening to your shed talk it should be 132bpm right? Or can I add a 5bpm more? It is of course for the moment really hard to control that, managed a couple of times
Sorry for the long message but thank you in advance for your insight
Best wishes
@@therealmarkallen thank you so much for taking the time to answer!
I hope to be back to training and work with you in a near future!
Thank you again (yesterday 45’ bike managed to stay with max. 131bpm… first time, with running no chance, it slows down to a walk and even though, but will)
Best
It will come back little by little with training!
Hi im 17, will the MAF formula method work for me or do I need to do something different?
Am I understanding this right? I’m 45 and I run 5k once every week/2 weeks, therefore my target hr is 135..... I can hit 135bpm walking up the stairs to work..... I’m I really that out of shape?
aerobically speaking yeah