Sit when riding off-road, when, how and why
ฝัง
- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 23 ก.ย. 2024
- Standing isn't always the right answer, it's ok to sit when it's ok to sit. But just like standing there is a technique that goes with it.
/ brettkacs
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As a professional trainer/instructor I am often asked why it is wrong to sit when riding offroad. In this video I cover the proper technique for riding a motorcycle offroad as well as when it is ok to sit and when you should stand.
The truth is there is always a place and time for each technique. When traveling we will spend a lot of time sitting. Even in sand and mud there are places and times when it is ok to sit. If you are going to spend days on end riding through deep sand at some point you will need to relax and just accept the ride…
Most important is to not sit because you are scared to stand. Sitting because you are afraid of mud, sand or water is not correct and can be very dangerous
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When you and Chris Birch give the same advice you know it’s right.
Whilst I have aged (will be 70 in five months time), my riding has also improved over the years and what would have been worrying situations seem much easier nowadays, so I tend to sit much more. But I stand when it gets really bumpy, not for the better control, but because I was warned about compression of the spine and I really don't want to be shorter than I already am (grin).
You nailed it. I’m no pro but I do put thousands of miles in the dirt every year (mostly in deep whooped out sand) and could not agree more. Nice graphics on that bike by the way.
Like so many things, the answer is grey , not black or white. And it might be a different answer for different people, based on experience or skill set, for example. Teaching techniques have changed so much for the better.
I am learning much from these.
Thank you.
Happy travels
I rode a Yamaha XT500 40 year’s ago. I was ok off road if I took it easy. Now I’m thinking about buying a Himalayan and taking off road training courses. So many instructors were standing when just riding on dirt roads and with my limited skills I wondered why. I would ride for hundreds of miles on good dirt roads in South Africa and I wouldn’t want to stand except in loose sand or mud. I never had proper instructions and would find out by trial and error or listening to and watching other riders. But I wouldn’t want to be standing up on long journeys. I’d miss the scenery and it’d be tiring. Glad to hear you mention that. I’m wanting to learn new skills and brush up on old ones by watching instructional videos before I even buy a crash helmet. My wife will be riding pillion now, so I’m looking for instructions in order to improve and be safer if /when I leave the road. I’m enjoying your videos a lot. Thank you for sharing your skills. I’m learning a lot by watching you. Regards from the UK 😊
Great advice and an even faster helmet-to-hat transition!
😂😂😂👌👌👌
He's becoming a god of the hat transition
Just too quick, almost invisible.. :)
@@FirstLast-nk3lm it's his trademark; he isn't that bold or shy about it
@@FirstLast-nk3lm... and let the truth be known... th-cam.com/video/zL3M42mG568/w-d-xo.html
This is such an amazing video.
Just today I went exploring an off road trail (it's actually a 100 years old road) where the road was built with river's stones. It's an uphill trail (this time I did ride the bike standing up), very beautiful views but very technical. As I was going back down, I exactly remember some instructors advise saying I should stand up, but my instinct kept telling me to sit and relax, and so I did.
I've never felt so comfortable on such technical road for which honestly I'm not that experienced on, but just sitting, relaxing and going my own pace made me enjoy it very much.
Thanks a lot for your great insights man.
Excellent!
"It depends" - one of the best answers one can get when trying to set things on a easy way on one's mind. There's not such a binary answer (yes / no) for a lot of questions, specially talking about motorbikes.
There's a ton of variables on that equation.
🤔👍
I have a riding buddy, and very capable and experienced one on both big ADV (GSA) and lightweight dualsport (KTM 450), that spends most of his time sitting. He's capable of high speed blasts down a trail, but prefers to conserve energy by riding a relatively slow pace (great for me) and sitting a lot. He always arrives at the destination with energy to spare. I've paid attention =)
It must be difficult for Bret to ride around with his hat in his hand. Helmet off; hat magically appears!
Now somebody needs to design a helmet with a hat holder.
Wow, the whole video I was looking at your 90/10 tires, then you mention it at the end. LOL ,I do believe you can go a lot further on those 90/10 than most people think, Good stuff thanks
Haha me too. When I first bought my r1200 rallyeX I rode down to and around Tasmania on what were effectively road tyres. They are fine if u are not on sand or mud which I generally try to avoid anyway. I was also in Dynamic mode going down western Explorer track in heavy rain as I thought this meant it would automatically change to suit conditions. It actually means road performance mode :) live and learn. These days its tkc 70 (roks on the rear)
I love how clearly and directly you explain the what and the why. Keep going!
I'm finding mountain biking very helpful for strength and stamina in standing. It also teaches me a lot about where to look, picking a line, predicting what gear to be in, momentum, traction balance, ..., ...
This video helped me SO much! We ride mostly dirt and gravel roads and I’m working on getting more comfortable with standing but I do sit mostly. I watched this video the day before we rode one of the more challenging gravel roads and sitting more forward on my seat and counterbalancing gave me so much more stability and confidence! I feel like I leveled up just applying what I learned from this one video. THANK YOU!!!
And that was a fully professional answer - "depends". I hate all of those youtube-masters with their "YOU ALWAYS NEED TO...". Real professional always answer: depends.
Great video, again. Thanks for it.
Indeed another anoying one is when they tell you as soon as there is a slight uphill you must chuck your body over the handlebars and as soon as there is a slight downhill you have to be fully extended backwards over the passenger seat. It's another case of 'it depends'.
Indeed another anoying one is when they tell you as soon as there is a slight uphill you must chuck your body over the handlebars and as soon as there is a slight downhill you have to be fully extended backwards over the passenger seat. It's another case of 'it depends'.
Great advice. Just did the Mid -Atlantic BDR, and the sections of dirt were so long I had to sit from the fatigue of standing. So I learned the hard way.
Bret. I already told you a month or so ago that I hated you after your uber-slick "Bike-on-to-a-pickup" video, and shared with you my "If I tried it" analogy where I basically ended up in large, broken pieces. I have an Africa Twin that I will see for the first time in November when I retire, leave Egypt and return to my long suffering family in the UK after 23 years of mostly being away. I truly believe that whilst there are millions of "Experts" out there, there is nobody better skilled, or with better "Coaching skills" than you, Your skill, care and passion for conveying all of the micro details needed in order to ride safely and well are legendary mate. Trust me - I know this from my own career. I have asked my Wife to prepare the spare room for the 2 week secondment / kidnap that I have planned for you after I retire, and you have a nice room mate. Forest view. The salary will not be so good, but I promise you the food will be superb 😘. Just superb Bret - no other adjective. Cheers
Finally! Glad to hear that it is ok to sit in some situations. Been saying that for a long time and was always told I need to stand. Thanks, great vid.
Yes friend, it's ok. Feel the bike, become one with it. Try eating bananas, no joke. When in doubt throttle out.✌🤙🤘
Thanks Bret! This is one of the most informative videos I've seen on a topic not addressed by many. I've been wondering if my 60-year old knees might keep me from riding off road and now I realize that, yes I can, cause I don't have to be standing the entire time! Most encouraging!
Spot on advice, because it makes “common sense”. And I learned sitting mostly forward achieves better front tire traction. With my arms better positioned to handle the bike and let her do her thing. Very useful indeed. 👍🏼 😎 🇺🇸 🌎
This man is a genius. Seriously. He has a thought process a step or two above average.
Excellent video, yet again. I’d add that there’s a middle ground, sitting and unweighting slightly when necessary. Doesn’t have to be a choice only between standing and sitting.
This was great to hear, I have two bolts in each knee and muscles routed over the top of the knee, I have developed I technique to stand on my KTM 690 enduro that works for me but still need to sit and rest more often than my fellow riders. I am still working out standing techniques that work for me being I have a limited bend in my knee before I have muscle failure. Can stop, love the bikes to much.
:)
I am practicing my helmet-to-cap transition but I can't get it right! Good educational video. My problem with standing or seating is when the bike is fully loaded, with over100 lbs. I always try to "float" with the bike but depending on the terrain a couple inches front or back makes a huge difference. Great videos as always. Cheers
Thanks Bret, ive just watched a number of your videos to tackle a 150km sandy off road tomorrow and 250kms the next day on a CRF1000 DCT
Jesus..thank you..I FINALLY found motovlog/motorcycle educational content-channel that believes in CONSISTENTLY producing 60fps content!
Great explanation, thanks so much!
Visited MTB riding trainings and was told this technique but nobody could explain to me WHY I should drive like that. #
Now everything is relay clear!
I am and will always be amazed how smooth that helmet to hat transition goes. Another great video :)
Good job Brett! Nice... multiple camera angles and 100% agree with your instruction today. Thank you
I can't "like" this video or Bret's advice enough.
Good advice! I think we all would like to see a long term review of that 790.
Brett, love your work! It would be great if you arranged an advanced rider training course in South Africa!!
Maybe in April 2022 before my tour
Excellent! very informative. Thank you
Thanks for some more great advice. I am sick of seeing riders standing just because they are on a gravel road. That’s a great way to tire yourself out and raise your centre of gravity, when I see that I know they are not natural riders and have been given a bum steer by a riding school. Thanks for giving people Great advice that works. Regards from Australia 🇦🇺
Excellent Bret! It is a pleasure to watch your videos. Congratulations
I stand to rest from sitting most of the time. When casually riding decent paved roads, I tend to sit back. For faster cornering on those roads and on dirt, I sit forward. I also counter lean on all surfaces, not just on dirt. Use what works for you.
I am just getting in to ADV. I am a sportbike rider. A little nervous my brain will mess with me when I have to do the exact opposite body position.
Thank you for the informative videos.
I need to do a video for sportbile riders on body positioning
@@BretTkacs you pretty much said it in this video. "If leaning into the turn and the rear starts to slip, no chance of saving it."
@@comfortablyunknown700 rear is ok.. It's the front that washes out with little chance of recovery
@@BretTkacs ah, maybe a video for sportbike riders is actually needed😖
Excellent video, very clear and very helpful!
Your awesome my man !!!!
Excellent instruction and guidance. Trail riding has helped reinforce these techniques for me but still need to work on committing these skills to muscle memory when riding an adventure bike. 790 treating you well?
Thank you for making this video - great content.
i do indeed have a bad knee from a crash, and i cant stand for long periods or it gets swollen and stiff. i usually avoid following my friends in anything other than smooth dirt roads (where i can easily sit down), and i end up missing most of the fun.
this video really gives me new hopes. i will give it a try once more
Not sure if you need another video for standing, your weightless rider video from a few years ago was and is still outstanding. I hope all is well with the fires over there, we went through it all here in New South Wales (South coast for us) earlier in the year
Second this, I ride all the time with the weightless rider principles in mind! If ever you're touring over my way Brett, I'll be there!!
agree that weighless rider is my fav
I do think may be time since that is on another channel...
great video, many riders with heavy bikes sit too far away and are too keen to lean with the bike on hardpack
@Bret Tkacs Steg Pegz are a great assist when standing for riders that don't have the body strength to stand. Or have old injuries that make it difficult. Takes a lot of pressure off of the lower and upper body when standing. I think it's worth a mention in a standing video. And it can help as an assist until riders do build the body strength to move with the bike for longer periods while standing.
Great stuff.. good to see you back. Sage advice.
I find you channel very informative. Riding sportsbike all my life, l find gravel a bit challenging, and the part in letting the bike "live" underneath you is very hard. Thanks for sharing sir, most apriciated.
Me and my 800xc is going to get there.. Baby steps...
Right there with you, bud. I wrote a similar comment.
"Wait! We have to cross-up??? Not supposed to completely hang off into the turn dragging knee???" 🤣
@@comfortablyunknown700 🤣🤣 kind of scary really...
Another great video advice! Looking forward to the ride standing video! Could you perhaps include advice/pointers on how to “properly” fall down when you’re off road either standing or sitting? I recently had a low sided skid/crash and I instinctively (and erroneously) tried to brake the fall by planting my left foot on the ground while the bike was still skidding sideway and end up tearing my MCL (knee joint ligament)... 🤕
I Bret. Another great video. The image quality has improved a lot. I like the clarity, definition and deepness. For my part, it is like I have no choice but to ride in the sitting position because we always ride two up and my wife don't like me standing up in front of her and I have no problem with this, I still keep a pretty good pace. Of course I could go faster if I was alone and standing but like you just said, it is not a race nor a competition of some sort. We just go riding and enjoying the scenery in all these special places we can go to with that GS1250hp and its super compliant suspension.
Thank you very much for another wonderful wonderful video and great advice
Would love to see that extensive video on the standing position, I know this has been talked in the past before. But I still find contradictory information, specially on big maxi trails bikes on turning with leg position and all that. I bought my first ADV bike this year and I'm literaly learning through youtube and so far Bret seems to be best teacher for sure. Thanks for everything!
Also setting up controls for offroading would be a nice video, I bought a big pair of boots for offroading but now shifting, its taking some time getting used to.. Maybe I could ajust something in the shifting lever?
bretts videos are great, i also like..."Motorcycle Adventures", try moving the lever up a little bit and that it doesn't catch or hit anything do some parking lot drill stuff then just ride....hope it helps, welcome to the adv side.
I'm in the same boat. Learning through TH-cam to ride off road. I also struggled with shifting with the off road boots and finally adjusted my shifter (Watched another TH-cam video on how to do it) and it is much better. Good luck in your adventures.
Yes...
I knew it! it's depends. Congratulation Bret, your video production is getting better
I've seen so many people after "riding schools" that always stand on their bikes, even on pavement.. Also, they don't have any dynamic positon, they just lock their knees with 10cm+ handbar risers so they don't have to bend their backs. This looks really bad and works even worse.
You are 100% on point!
Well said. And once it clicks.. it's drifting time!!!!
So important advice Sir.. Thanks alot
Thanks for bringing this up!
Paraphrasing Omar Khayyam God give me strength to ride standing, patience sitting and wisdom to see the difference.
A couple years back I rode Dempster; due to circumstances (road condition, weather, shot wheel bearing, tire choice) ended up standing on pegs most of the time.. 14hr a day. Yeah no crash even when some had so bad they had to be airlifted. My healthy knees were totally done i couldn't get off the bike at the end of the day and next day morning was painful!
It is important to ride well standing, you have higher chances of save but it is equally important to ride well sitting. Most importantly be efficient and develop a sense of when you need to transition to standing and equally so back. It is one thing to ride difficult section and another when that section lasts for a few days.
Bret doing tight slow speed turns on good grip surfaces is a good way to practice "staying over contact patch" both sitting and standing.. and perhaps talking to and leading by example would help teaching your class when is the right time to stand and right time to sit. Because if you stand all the time it ends up being not very effective when you really need it.
I am thinking of doing the Dempster next year or maybe 2022. Asking questions where ever I can.
Practically speaking how many days to allot to do it. That is if things went well weather was OK, and just riding, not sight seeing. Of course I will add days for photos/videos, then ugly weather, and lastly bike trouble, but a baseline would be good to work from.
Any thought info, greatly appreciated
Cheers
@@joeshmoe7967 really depends on conditions as low as 2 days and as long as 5 with 3-4 realistically. Not sure what state Inuvik to Tuk is when it opened it was impassible after the rain. They also use calcium chloride on some sections.. it's slick like soap when it's wet. good thing it dries there quick 12hr make huge difference
Miss the GS.
Still love the videos.
OMG you without a hat. I had to go back and watch it again 😃
I like to stand in gravel etc when on my bicycle. I stay basically stable, and the bike can dance around to find it's own balance and recovery. No off roading on a motorcycle yet, but looking to get a bike for some of my riding. Looks like some of my bicycle skills will come in handy. All of it just came naturally over the years. Good info - Cheers
well that is time to apply MTB balance skills, great video, thank you, cheers V!
I have great respect for Bret and I appreciate everything he teaches me, but for once I'd like to see any one of these online instructors actually demonstrate the techniques with a fully loaded 1200GSA going up a narrow gravel and rock filled 10,000ft mountain pass.
Great video, great advice thanks Bret
As always, sound advise. May I suggest a video explaining why it is important to let the bike move around underneath you and also overcoming the fear involved. Hope your enjoying the new bike.
Thanks Bret. I am always learning something when watching your vids. Cheers
That helmet to hat transition!! Great advice.
thank you. always enjoy your teaching vid.
I like your videos and watch them often. Thanks for dropping the annoying drum track.😁
Glad to see ya got the bike back! Hope it holds!!!!
I’m absolutely terrible at sitting. But I get tired too. That’s why I’m exploring videos. Needed to go more in depth
As a general rule it’s right that you get more control stood up when off-road.
However there are always exceptions to any rule and if you’re in for a 12hr day off-road then you’ll bet your backside you’ll be wanting to sit down for some of that!
briliant advice , thanks 👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻
Your awesome!! You have taught me so much and I thank you for that
See if you can do a video on 'how to make the bike suitable for you'
Like what suspension changes you need to make, how to set the handlebar or what accessories we can add to make it more suitable for our offroad needs
Also I'm 6'3" (191 cm). So what changes would you suggest for a person with above average height?
It's on the list
Perfectly stated, as always. Thank s Bret
Looking forward to tutorial on how to stand and ride
Excellent video!! I’m always wary of people who talk in absolutes... BTW, somewhere in the WA forest are a couple of GoPros still recording 😉😉
Great video. I find ergonomics on my bike don't really suit standing but I can transfer weight to my feet very effectively on rough bits so bike moves underneath me nicely. Cheers
I’m always copping for shit about sitting down...but that’s how I do it ! And ...I rarely take a dive
Thank you for this informative video. Truly appreciate your content. I rarely hit the "thumbs up" button, but on your videos, it's automatic. Do you still teach in Puyallup? I live in Seattle and would welcome the opportunity to take one of your courses. As an older rider, I value learning skills that help me avoid injuries (crashed twice on the WABDR two weeks ago).
Maybe you should join me next year for a camp and then the Alumni tour of the WABDR 😀
Www.brettkacs.com
As usual a great informative video.
Motoskivvies help a LOT with sitting! (Seriously helps avoid monkey butt)
Sitting at speed offroad is a great way to do the flying W and face plant.
Ants love when you put your helmet on the ground.......let's have a party inside :-)
Of late I stand more than I did before because I get more exercise standing.
Nice bike man
It drives me nuts to see riders standing for no reason. Riding enduros you sit as much as possible to conserve energy!
I sometimes stand just to get blood in my ass. And also its a rule of mine to always stand on a bridge. Now u will too.
I'd like to take a training class with Bret.
Brett, I think, like any other riding skill, people need to practice standing. Coming to a stop standing, starting off standing, slow ride standing, tight figure 8's standing, turning from a stop, standing. And they shouldn't be doing their practice on terrain that is difficult until they get skilled in it. If you are not skilled at standing, then you should be standing, until you are skilled. Then ride your ride.
I can say that for me personally, I’ve now crashed 3 times off road while sitting vs 0 times while standing LOL. So I think for me, I’ll stand until I can’t!
Tempted to buy a bike just to do his classes. Not sure my Vespa 300GTS is suitable for this 🤪
Hey bret, appreciate if you can make a video showing some off-road techniques using Honda X-adv as it is a diiferent type of bike. DCT, smaller rims, no tank to grip on etc.
I just need a bike 🤔
@@BretTkacs Go for it, man
You hesitated to put your helmet on the RVM and decided to put it on the Ground. But i guess your Helmet loves sitting on top :) as in next shot it came back on the RVM(00:37). Hahaha.. Well jokes apart. again a great video Thank you Bret.
I normally hang the helmet on the mirror with my gloves between the helmet and mirror to protect the impact liner.
Because I was going to be moving the handlebars for the video I needed to put in on the ground
You can watch these videos all day long and learn a little theory. Theory is good in practice. However if you really really want to learn to ride a big bike off road get on a mountain bike and ride it on mtb appropriate trails. You will quickly learn to stand when you need to stand and sit when you need to sit. You will learn body position very quickly and it’s an intuitive transition to big bikes. Just my two cents
Good video Bret!...I thougth that you're going to forget your sidestand extended before departing at the end...but you did not...silly me!...😅
That’s good news I have a bad knee and even though I do stand, I have no power to hold me up on the left leg if my right goes down. I am struggling a lot in deep sand
Just added the "1K" thumbs up, yess!
very helpful, thank you.
Awesome advice.
Could you please come to Brazil for some practical classes?
Thank u, that is a great tip...
I love the content. For some reason this video quality is much lower than is typical for your videos.
I was shooting at dusk... Low lighting