Thanks! I’m a huge fan of your videos since I loved Ben 10 as a kid and your breakdowns have reignited my love for that series now I’m older. It really means a lot to get feedback from you guys.
When The Doctor said his death was "tomorrow" he didn't literally mean the next day. He meant his tomorrow. He's a time traveller. He followed by saying "I can't put it off anymore" meaning that he had decided that he would finally go back to that date to meet his demise.
His death was his tomorrow because he wouldn't say just tomorrow but, a tomorrow. You're wrong and your theory sucks azz. Now apologize to everyone. SAY YOU"RE SORRY!!!!
Yeah, that line never read as a literal calendar reference to me, either. We must assume the prop designer misinterpreted it as such, though, when dating the newspaper.
I had always thought that when the Doctor says he will die tomorrow in Closing Time, that it was his personal tomorrow, not the tomorrow of the current time he finds himself in. It has to be a self-imposed deadline as a time traveller, because he can just avoid 11th April 2011 for as long as he likes, so long as he eventually does go there
He does presumably have to do it while he's 1103 - his recorded age upon death, but that still gives him a year to play around with. Maybe he was like 11 months in in Closing Time, but decided to put it off even more at...the eleventh hour.
@@rebeccahill6187 Definitely, though the Doctor has somewhat regularly pointed out they have no idea what their real age is. But yes, it would certainly need to be at some point when the Doctor reasonably believes himself to be 1,103
The thing with Time Travel stories is that they always have very loose canon. They have to in order for things to make sense in the fictional universes, with things constantly changing and being retconned and stuff. And that's what's great about Doctor Who. It doesn't matter that Amy's age is inconsistent, or whenever the UNIT stories took place, or whatever race the Doctor is at this point in time. Because really it doesn't matter. It's a fun show and people love it. You literally cannot destroy canon in a show which has a constantly shifting canon. It's like schrodinger's cat. It either happened or didn't, but it doesn't really matter because it was fun.
What I meant by that is that in universe, it's fun to pretend that it all makes perfect sense if you know everything the Doctor knows! A bit of mystery makes it more fun. Wibbly wobbly timey wimey fun!
To be honest all this video has done for me has made me think that Clara's title as the the impossible girl should go to Amy because wow trying place all the events with Amy and the Doctor into a cohesive timeline is impossible even for Steven Moffat and he was the showrunner of the show
I like all the logic here, but one comment about aging: there’s a line, I forget which episode but I know Amy says it (maybe Pond Life?), where she mentions being concerned that their friends might start wondering why they’re aging faster than they should, since they had been spending time on the tardis AND living their earth lives without missing any earth time, which would imply that they do age as normal while on the tardis. Or at least, that Amy believes they do.
@@DavidCornell1 Thanks for reminding me. It’s from A Town Called Mercy, and I did make note of it when scripting the video but just couldn’t find a place for it. It does suggest the Ponds were ageing while on the TARDIS but obviously with Karen Gillan and Arthur Darvill only shooting the show for about three years as opposed to the supposed decade they spent travelling with the Doctor in-universe, they obviously don’t look as old as maybe they would do.
Regarding the 10 year thing, friends of Amy and Rory refer to them looking a lot older than the last time they were seen in Power of Three. With them avoiding the topic when it's brought up. So I think it's implied that they spent 10 years with the Doctor. With short breaks in their own lives. And Amy saying what she did to the Doctor was her saying that she and Rory have lost track of time as a consequence, they're aging faster than those around them by popping back in where they left.
I agree there was a throw away comment in an episode I forget which that someone said "They always look different when they have just seen them both only the other day like they are getting older" or something very similar to it.
I think Amy's and Rory's timeline, in terms of Earth time, is further complicated by the doctor not always dropping them off right after he picked them up. I'm sure there were a couple of scenes when Amy and Rory were trying to live a "normal" life that their friends and coworkers commented that they found Rory and Amy to be unreliable because they'd disappear for days or weeks with no warning or explanation. And that it was a big deal when Rory and Amy committed to some event a few months out like normal people because they had stopped traveling with the Doctor.
There definitely were mentions that the Ponds were often gone for long periods. Rory's father was in the habit of watering the houseplants when they were gone. In other notes, the Ponds and Clara had to overlap. Clara was not traveling with the Doctor routinely, and I doubt her room had bunk beds.
I've been living the Drs life since 1963. It has been part of my family - my father worked on the show from Hartnell to Tom Baker. I worked on it from Tom to Colin Baker. OK, on and off ... that's how it was done - randomly. I would delight to be in the new show in any way at all ! I'm an actor now, as old as William H !
Amy is approximately 40 years old when she parts ways with the Doctor in The Angels Take Manhattan, relative to her personal timeline, totalling up all of her general personal experiences. (That is, she could 39, 42, or some age in that general ballpark.) We can deduce this in relative terms by her and Rory's appearance (makeup to make them look older than the actors were IRL, and Amy dressed to make her look like she's gained a few pounds relative to being 40+ vs her 20s) as well as her needing reading glasses (many/a majority of people who didn't need to wear glasses before usually find themselves needing some help with reading at around 40-ish, plus or minus). So when she is sent back in time after Rory to 1938, she then ages forward to dying at age 87 (approx.) circa 1985, relative to that math and general averages, and therefore Rory dying five years earlier circa 1980. In Re: the dates you cite and the Doctor's relative timeline. You are confusing/conflating the Doctor's personal timeline, as well as Amy's, relative to sequential dates (such as the incident at Lake Silencio, et al). It actually makes sense when you track their personal timelines, where they deviate from sequential chronology, separately from that sequential.
@@togepipi ? -- what are you referring to? Amy met the Doctor for the first time, in her personal timeline, in 1996 (when she was 7); she met him again in 2008 (when she was 19); then again and continuing from 2010 (when she was 21 and engaged). However, relative to her personal timeline, you can't count her age relative to linear years after 2010 because, as noted by her multiple times in the series (particularly in her last season), her personal timeline stretches further than our linear timeline because she is time traveling. That TATM takes place in 2012 (which coincided with the real-life year the episode originally aired) is completely irrelevant to her personal age at that point. At that point, she was already well passed her linear anniversary marrying Rory (as the Doctor spent a year living with them in the prior story, covering 2020 to 2021), and had been traveling with the Doctor for protracted periods during her time(s) with him. (Her 10th wedding anniversary night, alone, had her gone for almost two months while her quests only perceived her being "absent" for a couple hours or so. She also remarks to the Doctor how it's getting tricky to explain to her friends how/why she and Rory seem to not be aging well as the years go by, primarily because more years are passing for her, personally, than for her friends because she goes off for months, or even years, at a time and then returns more or less when she left in linear time.) I think you are very much confusing real-life airdates for episodes with the in-narrative passage of time for the characters in the show. As I noted, Amy is approximately 40 or so years old when we last see her in TATM; it doesn't matter what year, linearly, the story happens to take place in (2012) because she and the Doctor are *time-traveling* -- their personal timelines differ significantly from the linear years of the series as-aired in real-life, as I note/example above.
I’m guessing Kate just acted as if she didn’t know 11. In the star beast Shirley talks to 14 and assumes it’s 10 and acts as if he isn’t allowed/shouldn’t know who 11-13 are. So Unit likely have to meet each doctor and act accordingly to what they ‘know’ or what other incarnations tell them before hand The novel of day of the Doctor (I think) says 3 picked her up from school once- which can count as her first meeting with him. So she is used to meeting him (and other doctors) out of order and having to deal with it
I like this explanation. I loved the implication in The Star Beast that UNIT has specific training to avoid revealing future info to previous incarnations.
Mel's introduction to the Doctor is one of my favorites. I love that she completely knows him when he is introduced to her, and then they just "continue" traveling. Wonderful!
Personally, I think the trio of Amy Rory and the 11th doctor was the best era of the show. A perfect example of this was the Battle of demons run, showing what the characters would do for each other.
Great vid Tom, you certainly made it a good one. The way I see it, the fact Time Travel is involved automatically provides a big FU to characters aging, especially given the adventures we don't see - something Big Finish will one day fill in like they did with Rory's adventures during that 1000 year period he guarded the Pandorica
Time travel does sort of make age irrelevant as shown by the Doctor's inconsistent age being over 950 by the end of the classic series then suddenly 900 in the revival.
@@TBowenMedia There is some extended universe material (a novel or audiobook, I believe) where the Eigth Doctor decides to count his age from the first day of that specific regeneration. Which, while written a whole while before the War Doctor was introduced, actually fits quite nicely with how much the War Doctor was shown to age. (I got that info from this video: th-cam.com/video/ONU1WI4AIig/w-d-xo.html Which is a pretty good attempt to figure out the Doctors actual age)
You have a small channel and undertook a big mission to try and make a video about this. And you pulled it off. Answered some questions, posed some opinions and at the end of the day just respected the work you were analyzing. Congrats.
Thank you so much. That really means a lot especially considering this was so different to what I've made in the past and I wasn't entirely sure there'd be an audience, it was just a video I personally wanted to see which is a good a reason as any to make something. Respecting the work I'm analysing was especially important to me as a big fan of the Eleventh Doctor era but I'd try and treat all art I'm talking about with that respect since I know it will always be important to someone.
One thing, you don't usually start showing until around week 16-20 (4-5+ months) with pregnancy, and that's only a tiny bump. For some it's not even until the very end of the second trimester. So it makes sense for Amy not to show anything, if at all.
Thank you for pointing this out. I think my logic was that she goes into labour in The Almost People so I assumed she must be further along earlier in the series. Should’ve looked into that more.
@@TBowenMedia If I remember correctly, she said she was pregnant in The Impossible Astronaut, is kidnapped and resued in Day of The Moon (three months after The Impossible Astronaut), and then denies she's pregnant. It's pretty clear the substution was made during the kidnapping. She was probably about 4.5 to 5 months pregnant at the time of the kidnapping, and episodes 3-6 of series 6 took place over the balance of her pregnancy. Series 6A covers about 7 months.
My one complaint about your way of treating their time on the tardis as them being frozen in time is that its already been established later with Clara that they still age when on the tardis. I've always personally looked at it is that a hour on the tardis is still an hour you are aging. The tardis might not have a day night cycle, why would it? It can be in either place it wants. But my point is that once you enter the tardis. Your age no longer can be counted by the earth. I see it as you have a limited number of seconds to live. And whether those seconds are spent on another planet, in the tardis, on earth. They are still going by. So perhaps the 10 years is Amy and Rory adding up all the house they've spent with the doctor and adding it to what would be their normal lives
Great video Tom. I've never really thought about Amy's age before but now that you've made a video on it, it really is a bit of a pickle isn't it. Keep up the great work!
Thanks Joe, love your videos. I thought it was a bit surprising when Steven Moffat described it as “impossible” to make work but then after delving into the episodes, I see what he meant.
Just stumbled upon your channel, and I loved this video! Props to you for all the research you did for it! You’ve got really good pacing and editing, and in general a positive yet inquisitive outlook on Doctor Who as a whole, which I think the fandom definitely needs more of. Anyway, brilliant video, would love to see more of this type of stuff mate!
Thank you, really appreciate it. I try to make these videos as accessible and positive as I can since the Doctor Who fandom, especially online, can be overly cynical and unwelcoming for many.
I’m pretty sure Closing Time is set in April 2011 from backstage script dates etc. and I’m glad you’ve mentioned about Amy & Rory’s appearance in Closing Time. With the Doctor dropping them home presumably April 2011, this means there’s two versions of the ponds possibly around in April 2011. As ganger Amy and Rory would be getting ready to go to America. If Amy is now a model as with the petrichor thing, that means both her past versions would be very confused about why she’s now a model. As even when the ganger Amy and Rory go off travelling, the real Amy and Rory would suddenly be returning home at some point in 2011 before the summer. And yeah the continuity in series 7 is so bad. One minute it’s supposedly 2012, then it’s 2013. Then Kate Stewart meets the doctor prior to when she should’ve done . In script notes for closing time, originally it said that Amy and Rory are shopping for items for their new house. If it wasn’t for the petrichor sign, it would be even more difficult to determine
2011: march to September no one on earth die torchwood is still in the same universe. Putting closing time in April 2011 just break me the doctor was on earth for at least 2-3 days and not to notice that no one on the planet was dying.
Great work, dude! Things really did get confusing with the Ponds by the end there, so I tip my hat to you for taking a crack at it. I had a go at working it out last year for something I was working on, so I know it's no simple task.
well they don't age when in the Time Vortex/Tardis and we can assume if Time Energy affects Amy's baby then we can assume even if it's only for 24 hours to hell 30 minutes it slows down their physical ageing temporally so by 2013 Rory is mentally 31 and physically 25 where as Amy is mentally 31 and's physically 24
there's an interesting theory that the first half of the season where Amy and Rory leave all take place after the doctor has seen them get taken by the angels and that it's just him going back to have a few more adventures
A year after this was uploaded I wrote a 10,000 word dissertation on Moffat’s take on Doctor Who; it’s safe to say I’m a fan. Honestly though, I get feeling reassured by something like that. Performative showrunner hate instantly puts me off a video so i try to make my videos fun and removed from that kind of content.
The thing is, I think season 7 takes place in the late 2010s to 2020. Amy and Rory have to be on that hill in 2020 in the Silurian Episodes. Amy and Rory look through binoculars and see older versions of themselves revisiting their old adventures.
Completely forgot to bring that up. The Power of Three could take place c.2020 but that doesn’t explain Kate first meeting the Doctor there despite The Day of the Doctor in 2013. That scene in The Hungry Earth with their older selves doesn’t quite fit with the theories in the video but thank you for bringing it up .
@@TBowenMedia With the power of 3 I always viewed it as a year that no other episodes took place because of the cube debacle. Or else the Doctor would have known about the year of the cubes.
I love that Russell’s era doesn’t get a mention when talking about continuity issues. I miss when Doctor Who was simple and easy to follow. Yes, some of the plot resolutions like “the year that never was” and “the doctor Donna” mayyyybe seemed like cop-outs, but they were easy to follow and that’s what I found enjoyable! I didn’t have to think too hard and my love for the show was based on character development, rather than complicated plots. Can’t wait for Russell to make a come back next year!!
@Ellie Pascoe I personally prefer Moffat because his writing makes me think. RTD's writing was straightforward and boring to me, but that's just how I feel about it.
My philosophy for all Doctor Who is to treat each series as it's own canon, and view the links between each series as loose context and guidance only. Obviously, the series do inform each other more heavily, but within 2-3 series, there is significant drift, and events that once occurred are no longer referred to. The Slitheen invasion from S1E4 is clearly ignored when there are future alien invasions, as is every Dalek invasion in history (of which there have been many). As long as each individual series makes sense, and the transition from one series to the next is OK, I'm happy.
After watching decades of daytime dramas, characters chronically ages fast to suit the story arcs. I can remember kids being born when I was young, then they are like 5 years older then me, graduating Med/Law school.
@@animequeen1010 I was in a bit of a creative block and feeling quite restless recently and making this video and the response to it gave me a real confidence boost. It means a lot hearing your feedback.
Do a timeline for the daleks, i dare you, you wont But amazingly done, fun to watch. You put in a huge amount of work trying to put this crazy show in any order
Oh god! That would be a nightmare to put together; I haven’t even seen every classic Dalek story. But I’m glad you liked the video. I’m planning to make more like it.
My personal theory/head cannon is we’re experiencing the events in the order the doctor has, just like how we see him die at the beginning of season 5, the doctor isn’t seeing the ponds in order he’s just jumping in on where the ponds would be. Another example would be the relationship with their daughter river they never met in order
Huh, I don't remember the inconsistency in The Beast Below. You'd have thought people would have made a big deal about it. Because I definitely remember people making a big deal about Rory's hospital badge issued in 1990 in The Eleventh Hour. And that turned out to be a regular production mistake.
Time is supposed to pass within the TARDIS on a one-for-one basis with time on Gallifrey. I'm not sure what that means with the time-lock surrounding the Time War, or Gallifrey being gone/inaccessible from certain chains of continuity. Either way, I'm pretty sure that people travelling in the TARDIS still age just as they would have when Gallifrey existed.
I hear this a lot and I always assumed it was a fan theory since when Gallifrey’s relative present day is has never been clear. What stories confirm that time passes at Gallifrey’s speed in the TARDIS?
@@TBowenMedia Yeah, I'm feeling like an idiot. I can't figure out where I even heard that now. I mean, technically whatever I say has as much authority to the Doctor Who canon as any BBC writer ("none" is an amount, right?), but I cannot find a source.
@@bearnaff9387 I did a little digging since I remembered a RadioTimes article about this very fan theory. This seems to be the original Reddit post that suggests TARDISes are synced with Gallifreyan time. www.reddit.com/r/FanTheories/comments/52xpnw/doctor_who_the_order_of_time/
Amy is the same age as Rory . Except Rory waited two thousand years to see her after he was killed , so Amy is about two thousand years younger than her husband Rory . She's also pretty much the same age as her daughter Melody who spent several years in the 1960's so .... Amy looks great for her age .
It's time travel. Tomorrow could come years before yesterday. She could be anywhere from her mid 20s to thousands of years old depending on how old the writer needs her to be.
It’s going to be a long week wait for this video, I have always said the Atlantis was in Northern Africa, and when I saw you video on the subject I have watch very video you have made
It’s a neat theory. Not perfect since the exact order gets a bit confusing but it adds an element of tragedy to the Eleventh Doctor being unable to bear losing his friends
I've always accepted the many inconsistencies in Doctor Who as the result of traveling through time. Once you disturb one time line you disturb them all, and events are no longer sequential. So Amy can be the "wrong" age in some episodes and that's OK.
It would be fun seeing a crossover between Dr. Who and Jumanji: Welcome to the Jungle where the Tardis materialises in the bazaar on Jumanji with Amy Pond and the Doctor stepping out of the Tardis just as Dr. Smoulders Gravestone and his buddies appear. I wonder what would happen if Amy met Ruby Roundhouse, Killer of Men?
Maybe Kate and the Doctor met out of order, and she just went through with their 'first meeting' from his perspective to not screw with the timeline? Honestly, I'm surprised there isn't a lot more meeting out of order on this show...
Personally, i kinda love trying to headcanon the continuity of doctor who to make sense, since it often doesn't, but I love fanfiction as a concept in general, so that may just be me.
Relativity would explain the doctors statement that "I die tomorrow" for the doctor may mean that in 24 hours from the saying he is finishing his farewell tour. The doctor is showing up to lock in his time and date of death.
The Doctor is a time traveller. It wasn't actually tomorrow when he said tomorrow. He was just finished holding it off and was going to travel to that time tomorrow in his own timestream
I had always assumed the beginning of the Eleventh Hour had taken place in 2005, since that was where the 10th Doctor had last visited prior to his regeneration.
Interestingly, I read in DWM #515 that the opening with the Doctor flying above London is most likely still set in 2005 since one of the buildings glimpsed (not sure which sorry) was built after 1996. Presumably, the TARDIS jumps about a decade backward when he crashes in Amy's garden.
Basically it's all Wibbley Wobberly Timey Whiney Stuff and likely get a headache just trying to figure it out but good job. I never actually thought about Amy's age or Rory's but given Rory was alive for 2000 years even though it was rebooted big bang 2, he still remembers those 2000 years.
I’ve actually spent YEARS off and on thoroughly researching and revising all present-day portions of the Whoniverse timeline, including the Doctor Who revival and all three of its spin-off shows. It’s complicated, lol, especially during series 7, and I can’t say I’ve finished, but I do think there are definitive answers, including to the bits you felt were irresolvable; “The Day of the Doctor,” for instance, appears to take place in 2016, and that actually fits with the amount of changes we see Clara has undergone in her life between series 7 and Day and Time. I’ve obsessed over all the evidence long enough to say that the continuity of dates from series 1 on are actually for the most part pretty remarkably consistent, even if by accident much of the time, all things considered. And no, a wrong date barely visible on a newspaper prop is not remotely comparable to the actually canon-destroying weight of the Timeless Children retcon, lol. People love to say DW has never had good continuity, but in actuality it’s mostly pretty consistent, and even where things do get fuzzy they’re usually minor and isolated in their reach and magnitude and/or entirely reconcilable with enough thought …except for the Timeless Children, lol. But it’s ironic that even Moffat himself would love making that claim, when he was actually pretty darn adamant about canon in practice.
Amy and Rory have been living on the Tardis throughout their travels with the Doctor. The Doctor probably put them back to the time they left off everytime he would pick them up. 10 years of living on and off on the Tardis. And their aging is explained by the fact that time is relative to every individual meaning they still age on the Tardis.
Are you assuming that we are watching their lives in any particular order? The Doctor and River - both accomplished time travelers - resort to using diaries to keep track. That means even they are not experiencing their relationship in order. It is possible for each of them to remember something that the other has not yet done. So each person has their own relative experience of the passage of time. Amy and Rory may not even experience their own relationship in the right order but lacking the relevant temporal senses, or even a diary, they have not noticed.
I'm not criticizing you for trying to figure this out, but Amy Pond was the companion of the "timey wimey, wibbly wobbly" Doctor. Precise numbers were never a priority.
Absolutely loved this please make more doctor who content had to check your channel after this video and loved your video on series 5 and it completely changed my perspective on the season :)
Thank you so much! More DW videos are in the works at the moment, in fact I’m watching something for my next video as I write this. Glad you also liked the Series 5 video which I wish I could’ve done more in this style but I wasn’t as used to Premiere Pro at that time. Interesting to learn that it changed your perspective on that series; were you a fan of S5 beforehand?
You overlooked Rory's Hospital ID badge in the 11th hour which says it was issued in November 1990. Royal Ledworth Hospital -Rory Williams -Emergency Unit -Issued -30-11-1990
Wasn't there a couple of mentions in some of the episodes that alluded to them having travels outside of the episodes? It's been a while, but if this is the case, then it's likely that this could just be used as a catch all for rounding up their ages.
So new timelords can be born if conceived in the time vortex. One thing we never found out, did River have two hearts ? Being conceived on the T.A.R.D.I.S. in flight in the time vortex gave her regeneration and extended lifespan but what other genetic changes happened ?
Realistically Amy and Rory were probably in their late 20's or early 30's in The Angels Take Manhatten Speaking as a 30 year old myself, they just look the age
they do age on the tardis there is a line in a town called mercy “Erm... could we leave it a while?Our friends will start noticing that we're ageing faster than them.” A pregnancy is technically 10 months and don’t show til the 4th month at least the bump tiny around 6 months is when most people start showing but not everyone.
The thing about the 82 and 87 on the graves doesnt mean anything it could be that when amy was sent back in time it was 5 years later or she died 5 years later not specifically a age mess
Being touched by the same angel usually sends you to the same time. That's why Billy Shipton ended up in 1969 while Kathy ended up in a different time, Billy was probably touched by the same Angel that got the doctor and Martha. Amy probably got touched by the same angel that got Rory, ended up at the same time and lived an extra five years after he died.
What about in The Hungry Earth/Cold Blood where Amy and Rory wave to their past selves in the year 2020? I always thought that since Amy and Rory were 21 ish in Series 5 that Series 7a and the Dinosaurs episode was set around 2020 since Rory says he's 31 and it would be 10 years after that episode took place. Unless they just visited before the events of Angels Take Manhatten.
Here's my theory: Amelia - 7 yo when she meets 11 for the first time. (Obviously) 19 yo when he came back (obviously) 21 yo after he closed the time paradox and gave her parents, so at the end of season 5 (obviously as well). In season 6 she might be between 21 and 23, she didn't age much because she was pregnant for 7 episodes, only at the end of the season when Rory and Amy waited for the Doctor to find Melody - she said in Let's Kill Hitler it's been months since last time. So Amy = 22-24 from episode 8. In the Christmas special, 2 years added -> 24-26 yo. In season 7A, she is at least 31 because Rory said in Dinosaurs on a spaceship: "Dad, I'm 31. I don't have a Christmas list anymore." We can assume Rory and Amy are the same age. (Although I think Amy's slightly older than him)
There is a simple reason it is complicated. There was 2 different Amelia/Amy Ponds this entire time. They lived in two different Whoniversis: And they remembered each others lives because they was living close to the crack in her wall with the timevortex "behind" /"in" it. Same effect as Clara/Madame Pompadore/Lady Penforte & the Widow (wardobe) that also was exposed to the timevortex. (Capt Harkness is also able but he actully traversed over into the other Whoniverse) Here are the details on how everything is connected regarding Amelia/Amy. We begin with what happend in end of episode Doomsday that most missed: In episode Doomsday the 26th of June 2010 happend and the end of the classic whoniverse ended. Very cleverly hidden but as the call with Rose gets cut off the classic Whoniverse stopped to exist. Becasue the Pandorica/Big Bang event happend just as Donna was about to get married. Here is how we know it. Its in 10ths wording to Rose. Parafrased: "The last crack in the whoiverse is about to close." This is a referance to the Big BANG. The Doctor observed the crack in normal time. = as the Big Bang spread out to replace the classic Whoniverse with the new Whoniverse: = in normal time that big bang spread out from a point still in the doctors future. =The Big Bang expanded out from a point in time in both directions = in normal time "before" it happend it looked like it was closing when it infact was growing out from the future as it spread backwards in time... =As Donna was drawn to the TARDIS series 3-4 took place in the "new" RIVERverse where Amy Pond/Williams lived and remembered the life of Amelia Pond (with no period) =every single time we saw something wedding related bride, bride, bridegown, engagement ring, bride/Wedding... the TARDIS jumped between the two whoniversis. = as we saw Donna again as bride the TARDIS went bk into the classic whoniverse because the 10th .2 wanted to see his sister (ROse MArioN (A)) again (yes Rose is Romana and much more) = in episode Elventh hour there was the TARDIS jumping twice bk and forth the two whoniversis (see intro since 9th -2nd Curator (PC) how) = the 11th saved =As the enemies in the classic WHoniverse kidnapped Amelia they got more then what they bargained for. They got memories from two whonivesis and the man that had never existed (reason 11th went and got Amelia in end of Eleventh hour to save her from realising the man she was about to marry had never existed) came to be. I wont go deeply into how much more we can deduce from this but here is a small taste: (amongst the 2 out of the 4 known different Doctors names) yes FOUR. (1 Doctor for each new WHoniverse and we know about 4 different Whoniversis Doctors) Classis Whoniverse = Toni Tyler (the 0th) = our (now former) Doctor birth name (never knew he was the 0th Doctor (was seen in the Three Doctors 1973; Doctor Tyler) New WHoniverse = Birth name Clara Oswald aka the current 0th Doctor (that never knew that shes the actual (new) Doctor her first RAVEN ("death") copy is CAL (in the Library) Previous/Lost/"Parallell WHoniverse Doctor = a female Rassilon Previous previous Whoniverse = The classic Whoniverse Celestial Toymaker (as Rassilons fate was to become banished from the new Guardians over time that formed as Gallifrey was burnt in the same moment it was frozen by the Master using Rassilons ascention device at the very last moment to prevent Missy to come to be thus actully making Missy happen (the new Black Guardian over time) I am not joking: This above is ALL in the show. And more just comment and ill explain more. It is NOT a crazy ramblings its the key to understand ALL of Doctor Who. Rose = Bad Wolf/TARDIS = Mother to the Master = Romana = new White Guardian = Santa (that sent the Bad Wolf/TARDIS (herself) to save Amelia Pond (Eleventh hour start) prayer. This is in the show. Yes; even the mother to the Master part (Donna Noble and her hearing her heart beating as she got trapped inside the TARDIS in Journeys end. Tap Tap.... Two Hearts = Tap , tap, tap, tap = Wilfred is 50% the great grandfather to the MAster As the Meta/Valeyard from inbetween the 12th and final regen (YES count it) its correct 10.2 regen = the 12th and 11th = the final one. (that the Valeyard knew about) = The Mondasians had the same fate as our Mankind as our Earth was taken out of our classic Whoniverse in Stolen Earth and taken over into the new WHoiverse in Journeys end. =The Mondasians became the timelords as the newly completed 1st TARDIS by Rassilon saved them just before they died to its harddrive (that later became the Matrix and this is where all regens comes from all the Mondasians saved to it harddrive both as it fell (the first save; the basestations the actual timelords) + the save of all Mondasians thru thier history from 100.000BCE-100.000ADish AND the same thing have happend in the New WHoniverse Where the new 1st timemachine for the new rulers over time inside the new WHoniverse from our Earth as it falls to the Daleks (same but different) was completed during series 4 events....hidden in plain sight. AND this incomplete timemachine (completed in 5145AD) then saves everyone including Clara /the Raven save; =The national art gallary in the 50th is the incomplete timemachine And River Songs mind is the last component. = RIVERS is the new Timemachine = As our Eternal president saves us to Trenzalore (the former terraformed (Burnt) by the ascention device Gallifrey) = The last speech by PC = the TARDIS dragged Galfrey with it into the new Whoniverse during it. = As the ascention wave was about to hit the TARDIS it thru out JW and dragged and teleported away Gallifrey just as per seen in End of time but from an different angle. (What we didnt see was the TARDIS doing this out of sight) And The 11th giving all the secrets that must never be told to the former ascended Master at the burning former Gallifrey made the former Master into the regretful Missy. Because at the very same time; the Whoniverse chose and made Clara the new Doctor during the deamonstar speech.... YES THIS IS IN THE SHOW: "I Loved being you shining like a sun while the planet burnt..." That tricked the Master into ascending (burning Gallifrey to spite Missy and thus made Missy came to be....
When the doctor says tomorrow, he isn't refering to a non time travelers tomorrow but a time travelers tomorrow, so when and how often does the doctor sleep.
Wasn’t any replaced during day of the moon when she is held hostage by the silence , they let the doctor ‘save’ amy and walk away with a clone while they escaped with the real one. Not rewatched a lot of the episodes since I was a child , I’ve sorta just assumed that for years
That’s a fair assumption and I can see why you’d think that since I’m not even sure why she’s held hostage in The Day of the Moon. In A Good Man Goes To War, the Doctor says Amy must’ve been taken “just before America” which is what I went with for the video.
Look how babsolutely stunningly beautiful Karen is. I paused at 0:10 and gazed at my screen with pure amazement and adoration. I think I actually love her 😍😅 Anyway… great video, Bro! I’ve just discovered your channel and am very much enjoying the content!
The difference between something like this and the timeless children is that that reveal cheapens the story hugely, and flattens the Doctor's character.
When the Doctor says in Closing Time that his death is "tomorrow", growing up I always assumed it's, like, his version of "tomorrow". Because he's a time traveler, so the word "tomorrow" doesn't really mean anything to him. I just assumed he decided "OK time's up, I'm gonna do it tomorrow". So Closing Time could really take place wherever we want it to. EDIT oh I commented to soon, you suggest that too :)
I really love the timeless child in Doctor who becouse is show the continuity missy timeline in Doctor who probably it is a beauty in itself so we can Interpret the canon anyway we won’t to interpret it
Hence I deliberately never brought it up 🤣 Given how the events of Miracle Day are never acknowledged by Jack in either S12 or Revolution of the Daleks, I’m wondering if it’s just subtly been retconned out of continuity.
You missed something. When Amy is an adult and meets the Doctor again, at the end of the episode he leaves in the Tardis and then comes back. I believe she mentions that 2 years have passed. Thus, the 1308 and not 1306 displayed.
There's a reason for the time changes he keep changing the time lines the biggest change is when he goes back to destroy the darleks he changed there time line so the first time they met didn't really happen but he remembers
Excellent video!
Thanks! I’m a huge fan of your videos since I loved Ben 10 as a kid and your breakdowns have reignited my love for that series now I’m older. It really means a lot to get feedback from you guys.
@@TBowenMedia Thank you, that’s really cool to hear! Keep up the great work with your videos.
@@TBowenMedia Only problem with the video was that it was a couple of years since they last meet during the night before the weeding day.
When The Doctor said his death was "tomorrow" he didn't literally mean the next day. He meant his tomorrow. He's a time traveller. He followed by saying "I can't put it off anymore" meaning that he had decided that he would finally go back to that date to meet his demise.
His death was his tomorrow because he wouldn't say just tomorrow but, a tomorrow. You're wrong and your theory sucks azz. Now apologize to everyone. SAY YOU"RE SORRY!!!!
Yeah, that line never read as a literal calendar reference to me, either. We must assume the prop designer misinterpreted it as such, though, when dating the newspaper.
Agreed.
I had always thought that when the Doctor says he will die tomorrow in Closing Time, that it was his personal tomorrow, not the tomorrow of the current time he finds himself in. It has to be a self-imposed deadline as a time traveller, because he can just avoid 11th April 2011 for as long as he likes, so long as he eventually does go there
He does presumably have to do it while he's 1103 - his recorded age upon death, but that still gives him a year to play around with. Maybe he was like 11 months in in Closing Time, but decided to put it off even more at...the eleventh hour.
@@rebeccahill6187 Definitely, though the Doctor has somewhat regularly pointed out they have no idea what their real age is. But yes, it would certainly need to be at some point when the Doctor reasonably believes himself to be 1,103
The thing with Time Travel stories is that they always have very loose canon. They have to in order for things to make sense in the fictional universes, with things constantly changing and being retconned and stuff. And that's what's great about Doctor Who. It doesn't matter that Amy's age is inconsistent, or whenever the UNIT stories took place, or whatever race the Doctor is at this point in time. Because really it doesn't matter. It's a fun show and people love it. You literally cannot destroy canon in a show which has a constantly shifting canon. It's like schrodinger's cat. It either happened or didn't, but it doesn't really matter because it was fun.
@MagicalGirlLaurie Exactly what I was thinking but I can't put it any better
RTD always managed to keep his canon perfectly consistent across three shows whilst in charge so I don’t see any reason why moffats era couldn’t
What I meant by that is that in universe, it's fun to pretend that it all makes perfect sense if you know everything the Doctor knows! A bit of mystery makes it more fun. Wibbly wobbly timey wimey fun!
To be honest all this video has done for me has made me think that Clara's title as the the impossible girl should go to Amy because wow trying place all the events with Amy and the Doctor into a cohesive timeline is impossible even for Steven Moffat and he was the showrunner of the show
He's a Timelord. Trying to make sense of his life is like a 10 year old trying to make sense of quantum entanglement.
Jimmy Neutron be like
"...is like a 10 year old trying to make sense of quantum entanglement."
Or indeed a 65year old...
A Chinese 10 year old probably can!
I like all the logic here, but one comment about aging: there’s a line, I forget which episode but I know Amy says it (maybe Pond Life?), where she mentions being concerned that their friends might start wondering why they’re aging faster than they should, since they had been spending time on the tardis AND living their earth lives without missing any earth time, which would imply that they do age as normal while on the tardis. Or at least, that Amy believes they do.
This doesn’t conflict with anything you said in the video though, if I’m not mistaken
@@DavidCornell1 Thanks for reminding me. It’s from A Town Called Mercy, and I did make note of it when scripting the video but just couldn’t find a place for it. It does suggest the Ponds were ageing while on the TARDIS but obviously with Karen Gillan and Arthur Darvill only shooting the show for about three years as opposed to the supposed decade they spent travelling with the Doctor in-universe, they obviously don’t look as old as maybe they would do.
Regarding the 10 year thing, friends of Amy and Rory refer to them looking a lot older than the last time they were seen in Power of Three. With them avoiding the topic when it's brought up.
So I think it's implied that they spent 10 years with the Doctor. With short breaks in their own lives. And Amy saying what she did to the Doctor was her saying that she and Rory have lost track of time as a consequence, they're aging faster than those around them by popping back in where they left.
I agree there was a throw away comment in an episode I forget which that someone said "They always look different when they have just seen them both only the other day like they are getting older" or something very similar to it.
I think Amy's and Rory's timeline, in terms of Earth time, is further complicated by the doctor not always dropping them off right after he picked them up. I'm sure there were a couple of scenes when Amy and Rory were trying to live a "normal" life that their friends and coworkers commented that they found Rory and Amy to be unreliable because they'd disappear for days or weeks with no warning or explanation. And that it was a big deal when Rory and Amy committed to some event a few months out like normal people because they had stopped traveling with the Doctor.
There definitely were mentions that the Ponds were often gone for long periods. Rory's father was in the habit of watering the houseplants when they were gone.
In other notes, the Ponds and Clara had to overlap. Clara was not traveling with the Doctor routinely, and I doubt her room had bunk beds.
I've been living the Drs life since 1963. It has been part of my family - my father worked on the show from Hartnell to Tom Baker. I worked on it from Tom to Colin Baker. OK, on and off ... that's how it was done - randomly. I would delight to be in the new show in any way at all ! I'm an actor now, as old as William H !
That's amazing
Amy is approximately 40 years old when she parts ways with the Doctor in The Angels Take Manhattan, relative to her personal timeline, totalling up all of her general personal experiences. (That is, she could 39, 42, or some age in that general ballpark.) We can deduce this in relative terms by her and Rory's appearance (makeup to make them look older than the actors were IRL, and Amy dressed to make her look like she's gained a few pounds relative to being 40+ vs her 20s) as well as her needing reading glasses (many/a majority of people who didn't need to wear glasses before usually find themselves needing some help with reading at around 40-ish, plus or minus). So when she is sent back in time after Rory to 1938, she then ages forward to dying at age 87 (approx.) circa 1985, relative to that math and general averages, and therefore Rory dying five years earlier circa 1980.
In Re: the dates you cite and the Doctor's relative timeline. You are confusing/conflating the Doctor's personal timeline, as well as Amy's, relative to sequential dates (such as the incident at Lake Silencio, et al). It actually makes sense when you track their personal timelines, where they deviate from sequential chronology, separately from that sequential.
How was she 40? Didn't she meet the doctor in 2005 or am I stupid cause I didn't see 10 leave 2005
@@togepipi ? -- what are you referring to? Amy met the Doctor for the first time, in her personal timeline, in 1996 (when she was 7); she met him again in 2008 (when she was 19); then again and continuing from 2010 (when she was 21 and engaged). However, relative to her personal timeline, you can't count her age relative to linear years after 2010 because, as noted by her multiple times in the series (particularly in her last season), her personal timeline stretches further than our linear timeline because she is time traveling. That TATM takes place in 2012 (which coincided with the real-life year the episode originally aired) is completely irrelevant to her personal age at that point. At that point, she was already well passed her linear anniversary marrying Rory (as the Doctor spent a year living with them in the prior story, covering 2020 to 2021), and had been traveling with the Doctor for protracted periods during her time(s) with him. (Her 10th wedding anniversary night, alone, had her gone for almost two months while her quests only perceived her being "absent" for a couple hours or so. She also remarks to the Doctor how it's getting tricky to explain to her friends how/why she and Rory seem to not be aging well as the years go by, primarily because more years are passing for her, personally, than for her friends because she goes off for months, or even years, at a time and then returns more or less when she left in linear time.)
I think you are very much confusing real-life airdates for episodes with the in-narrative passage of time for the characters in the show. As I noted, Amy is approximately 40 or so years old when we last see her in TATM; it doesn't matter what year, linearly, the story happens to take place in (2012) because she and the Doctor are *time-traveling* -- their personal timelines differ significantly from the linear years of the series as-aired in real-life, as I note/example above.
I’m guessing Kate just acted as if she didn’t know 11.
In the star beast Shirley talks to 14 and assumes it’s 10 and acts as if he isn’t allowed/shouldn’t know who 11-13 are.
So Unit likely have to meet each doctor and act accordingly to what they ‘know’ or what other incarnations tell them before hand
The novel of day of the Doctor (I think) says 3 picked her up from school once- which can count as her first meeting with him.
So she is used to meeting him (and other doctors) out of order and having to deal with it
I like this explanation. I loved the implication in The Star Beast that UNIT has specific training to avoid revealing future info to previous incarnations.
Awesome work!! This was a super breakdown of Amy's era and I think, judging the circumstances, you've done a great job at making sense of it :D
Thank you. It certainly took a lot of digging to piece it all together.
Mel's introduction to the Doctor is one of my favorites. I love that she completely knows him when he is introduced to her, and then they just "continue" traveling. Wonderful!
Personally, I think the trio of Amy Rory and the 11th doctor was the best era of the show. A perfect example of this was the Battle of demons run, showing what the characters would do for each other.
this channel is obscenely underrated, you deserve at minimum 10x more subs for this quality of content!
Great vid Tom, you certainly made it a good one. The way I see it, the fact Time Travel is involved automatically provides a big FU to characters aging, especially given the adventures we don't see - something Big Finish will one day fill in like they did with Rory's adventures during that 1000 year period he guarded the Pandorica
Time travel does sort of make age irrelevant as shown by the Doctor's inconsistent age being over 950 by the end of the classic series then suddenly 900 in the revival.
@@TBowenMedia There is some extended universe material (a novel or audiobook, I believe) where the Eigth Doctor decides to count his age from the first day of that specific regeneration. Which, while written a whole while before the War Doctor was introduced, actually fits quite nicely with how much the War Doctor was shown to age.
(I got that info from this video: th-cam.com/video/ONU1WI4AIig/w-d-xo.html Which is a pretty good attempt to figure out the Doctors actual age)
You have a small channel and undertook a big mission to try and make a video about this. And you pulled it off. Answered some questions, posed some opinions and at the end of the day just respected the work you were analyzing. Congrats.
Thank you so much. That really means a lot especially considering this was so different to what I've made in the past and I wasn't entirely sure there'd be an audience, it was just a video I personally wanted to see which is a good a reason as any to make something. Respecting the work I'm analysing was especially important to me as a big fan of the Eleventh Doctor era but I'd try and treat all art I'm talking about with that respect since I know it will always be important to someone.
One thing, you don't usually start showing until around week 16-20 (4-5+ months) with pregnancy, and that's only a tiny bump. For some it's not even until the very end of the second trimester. So it makes sense for Amy not to show anything, if at all.
Thank you for pointing this out. I think my logic was that she goes into labour in The Almost People so I assumed she must be further along earlier in the series. Should’ve looked into that more.
Tall women especially are late to show in an obvious way.
@@TBowenMedia If I remember correctly, she said she was pregnant in The Impossible Astronaut, is kidnapped and resued in Day of The Moon (three months after The Impossible Astronaut), and then denies she's pregnant. It's pretty clear the substution was made during the kidnapping. She was probably about 4.5 to 5 months pregnant at the time of the kidnapping, and episodes 3-6 of series 6 took place over the balance of her pregnancy. Series 6A covers about 7 months.
My one complaint about your way of treating their time on the tardis as them being frozen in time is that its already been established later with Clara that they still age when on the tardis. I've always personally looked at it is that a hour on the tardis is still an hour you are aging. The tardis might not have a day night cycle, why would it? It can be in either place it wants. But my point is that once you enter the tardis. Your age no longer can be counted by the earth. I see it as you have a limited number of seconds to live. And whether those seconds are spent on another planet, in the tardis, on earth. They are still going by. So perhaps the 10 years is Amy and Rory adding up all the house they've spent with the doctor and adding it to what would be their normal lives
Great video Tom. I've never really thought about Amy's age before but now that you've made a video on it, it really is a bit of a pickle isn't it. Keep up the great work!
Thanks Joe, love your videos. I thought it was a bit surprising when Steven Moffat described it as “impossible” to make work but then after delving into the episodes, I see what he meant.
Just stumbled upon your channel, and I loved this video! Props to you for all the research you did for it! You’ve got really good pacing and editing, and in general a positive yet inquisitive outlook on Doctor Who as a whole, which I think the fandom definitely needs more of. Anyway, brilliant video, would love to see more of this type of stuff mate!
Thank you, really appreciate it. I try to make these videos as accessible and positive as I can since the Doctor Who fandom, especially online, can be overly cynical and unwelcoming for many.
@Tom Bowen absolutely. What a nice breath of fresh air! Cheers mate, keep up the fantastic work! :)
Great vid! Never would’ve guessed that, can’t wait for more and I you are so underrated!
I’m pretty sure Closing Time is set in April 2011 from backstage script dates etc. and I’m glad you’ve mentioned about Amy & Rory’s appearance in Closing Time. With the Doctor dropping them home presumably April 2011, this means there’s two versions of the ponds possibly around in April 2011. As ganger Amy and Rory would be getting ready to go to America.
If Amy is now a model as with the petrichor thing, that means both her past versions would be very confused about why she’s now a model. As even when the ganger Amy and Rory go off travelling, the real Amy and Rory would suddenly be returning home at some point in 2011 before the summer.
And yeah the continuity in series 7 is so bad. One minute it’s supposedly 2012, then it’s 2013. Then Kate Stewart meets the doctor prior to when she should’ve done .
In script notes for closing time, originally it said that Amy and Rory are shopping for items for their new house. If it wasn’t for the petrichor sign, it would be even more difficult to determine
2011: march to September no one on earth die torchwood is still in the same universe. Putting closing time in April 2011 just break me the doctor was on earth for at least 2-3 days and not to notice that no one on the planet was dying.
Great work, dude! Things really did get confusing with the Ponds by the end there, so I tip my hat to you for taking a crack at it.
I had a go at working it out last year for something I was working on, so I know it's no simple task.
How do you only have 313 subs? This was a really good video! Better than some I have seen with WAY more subs!
well they don't age when in the Time Vortex/Tardis and we can assume if Time Energy affects Amy's baby then we can assume even if it's only for 24 hours to hell 30 minutes it slows down their physical ageing temporally
so by 2013 Rory is mentally 31 and physically 25 where as Amy is mentally 31 and's physically 24
This was a really well made video, awesome work and easy to understand, hope to see this channel grow!!
You just earned a Subscriber!!
there's an interesting theory that the first half of the season where Amy and Rory leave all take place after the doctor has seen them get taken by the angels and that it's just him going back to have a few more adventures
When I got recommended this, with it's 85k views, I feared a takedown of the Moff era, thank you for taking only 35 seconds to put me at ease 🙏
A year after this was uploaded I wrote a 10,000 word dissertation on Moffat’s take on Doctor Who; it’s safe to say I’m a fan. Honestly though, I get feeling reassured by something like that. Performative showrunner hate instantly puts me off a video so i try to make my videos fun and removed from that kind of content.
Mat Smith and Karren Gillan were damn great!
Very nice work! Thank you!
The thing is, I think season 7 takes place in the late 2010s to 2020. Amy and Rory have to be on that hill in 2020 in the Silurian Episodes. Amy and Rory look through binoculars and see older versions of themselves revisiting their old adventures.
Completely forgot to bring that up. The Power of Three could take place c.2020 but that doesn’t explain Kate first meeting the Doctor there despite The Day of the Doctor in 2013. That scene in The Hungry Earth with their older selves doesn’t quite fit with the theories in the video but thank you for bringing it up .
@@TBowenMedia With the power of 3 I always viewed it as a year that no other episodes took place because of the cube debacle. Or else the Doctor would have known about the year of the cubes.
I love that Russell’s era doesn’t get a mention when talking about continuity issues. I miss when Doctor Who was simple and easy to follow. Yes, some of the plot resolutions like “the year that never was” and “the doctor Donna” mayyyybe seemed like cop-outs, but they were easy to follow and that’s what I found enjoyable! I didn’t have to think too hard and my love for the show was based on character development, rather than complicated plots. Can’t wait for Russell to make a come back next year!!
@Ellie Pascoe I personally prefer Moffat because his writing makes me think. RTD's writing was straightforward and boring to me, but that's just how I feel about it.
Oh! I *love* the idea that the series 7 eps aren’t in chronological order!
My philosophy for all Doctor Who is to treat each series as it's own canon, and view the links between each series as loose context and guidance only.
Obviously, the series do inform each other more heavily, but within 2-3 series, there is significant drift, and events that once occurred are no longer referred to. The Slitheen invasion from S1E4 is clearly ignored when there are future alien invasions, as is every Dalek invasion in history (of which there have been many). As long as each individual series makes sense, and the transition from one series to the next is OK, I'm happy.
After watching decades of daytime dramas, characters chronically ages fast to suit the story arcs. I can remember kids being born when I was young, then they are like 5 years older then me, graduating Med/Law school.
Try Explaining baby Nicky in the Fresh Prince of Bel-Air (comedy show) lol.
Great video man
Great video tom, I saw two guys say this in a row and wanted to say it too
All compliments are welcome 🤣 but really, thanks.
This was really interesting. You have a new sub! Please make more videos like this.
when there is something in doctor who continuity that doesn't make sense remember the answer is time travel.
How do you only have 175 subscribers your amazing I love doctor who keep up the good work
Thank you! Weirdly, I think about sixty to seventy of those subscribers came after this video. Definitely planning more videos like this.
@@TBowenMedia I think you found what you are good at
@@animequeen1010 I was in a bit of a creative block and feeling quite restless recently and making this video and the response to it gave me a real confidence boost. It means a lot hearing your feedback.
@@TBowenMedia I glad keep it up
Thank you for this. Great job!
Great video! I like these kind of videos of investigating Doctor Who situations and trying to answer it.
Do a timeline for the daleks, i dare you, you wont
But amazingly done, fun to watch. You put in a huge amount of work trying to put this crazy show in any order
Oh god! That would be a nightmare to put together; I haven’t even seen every classic Dalek story. But I’m glad you liked the video. I’m planning to make more like it.
Everything would work and seem to be logical, if Amy hadn't mentioned those 10 years in "the power of three" LOL,
My personal theory/head cannon is we’re experiencing the events in the order the doctor has, just like how we see him die at the beginning of season 5, the doctor isn’t seeing the ponds in order he’s just jumping in on where the ponds would be. Another example would be the relationship with their daughter river they never met in order
Huh, I don't remember the inconsistency in The Beast Below. You'd have thought people would have made a big deal about it. Because I definitely remember people making a big deal about Rory's hospital badge issued in 1990 in The Eleventh Hour. And that turned out to be a regular production mistake.
Time is supposed to pass within the TARDIS on a one-for-one basis with time on Gallifrey. I'm not sure what that means with the time-lock surrounding the Time War, or Gallifrey being gone/inaccessible from certain chains of continuity. Either way, I'm pretty sure that people travelling in the TARDIS still age just as they would have when Gallifrey existed.
I hear this a lot and I always assumed it was a fan theory since when Gallifrey’s relative present day is has never been clear. What stories confirm that time passes at Gallifrey’s speed in the TARDIS?
@@TBowenMedia Yeah, I'm feeling like an idiot. I can't figure out where I even heard that now. I mean, technically whatever I say has as much authority to the Doctor Who canon as any BBC writer ("none" is an amount, right?), but I cannot find a source.
@@bearnaff9387 I did a little digging since I remembered a RadioTimes article about this very fan theory. This seems to be the original Reddit post that suggests TARDISes are synced with Gallifreyan time.
www.reddit.com/r/FanTheories/comments/52xpnw/doctor_who_the_order_of_time/
Amy is the same age as Rory . Except Rory waited two thousand years to see her after he was killed , so Amy is about two thousand years younger than her husband Rory . She's also pretty much the same age as her daughter Melody who spent several years in the 1960's so .... Amy looks great for her age .
It's time travel. Tomorrow could come years before yesterday. She could be anywhere from her mid 20s to thousands of years old depending on how old the writer needs her to be.
It’s going to be a long week wait for this video, I have always said the Atlantis was in Northern Africa, and when I saw you video on the subject I have watch very video you have made
I've never heard that series 7A being out of order theory before but I love it and I'm gonna believe it to be true.
It’s a neat theory. Not perfect since the exact order gets a bit confusing but it adds an element of tragedy to the Eleventh Doctor being unable to bear losing his friends
I've always accepted the many inconsistencies in Doctor Who as the result of traveling through time. Once you disturb one time line you disturb them all, and events are no longer sequential. So Amy can be the "wrong" age in some episodes and that's OK.
It would be fun seeing a crossover between Dr. Who and Jumanji: Welcome to the Jungle where the Tardis materialises in the bazaar on Jumanji with Amy Pond and the Doctor stepping out of the Tardis just as Dr. Smoulders Gravestone and his buddies appear. I wonder what would happen if Amy met Ruby Roundhouse, Killer of Men?
Maybe Kate and the Doctor met out of order, and she just went through with their 'first meeting' from his perspective to not screw with the timeline? Honestly, I'm surprised there isn't a lot more meeting out of order on this show...
How time passes in the TARDIS was explained in an episode with the 5th Doctor
Personally, i kinda love trying to headcanon the continuity of doctor who to make sense, since it often doesn't, but I love fanfiction as a concept in general, so that may just be me.
Relativity would explain the doctors statement that "I die tomorrow" for the doctor may mean that in 24 hours from the saying he is finishing his farewell tour. The doctor is showing up to lock in his time and date of death.
New subscriber. Thanks for a very interesting video!
We also saw an aging Amy in The Girl Who Waited - although, obviously, her time line was wiped out.
Biggest surprise for was that Amy Pond is Nebula. I never realized it lol.
The three major inconsistencies in the history of Doctor Who: the Doctor being half-Human AND not, Amy Pond's age and Chris Chinballs.
The Doctor is a time traveller. It wasn't actually tomorrow when he said tomorrow. He was just finished holding it off and was going to travel to that time tomorrow in his own timestream
I had always assumed the beginning of the Eleventh Hour had taken place in 2005, since that was where the 10th Doctor had last visited prior to his regeneration.
Interestingly, I read in DWM #515 that the opening with the Doctor flying above London is most likely still set in 2005 since one of the buildings glimpsed (not sure which sorry) was built after 1996. Presumably, the TARDIS jumps about a decade backward when he crashes in Amy's garden.
Basically it's all Wibbley Wobberly Timey Whiney Stuff and likely get a headache just trying to figure it out but good job. I never actually thought about Amy's age or Rory's but given Rory was alive for 2000 years even though it was rebooted big bang 2, he still remembers those 2000 years.
I’ve actually spent YEARS off and on thoroughly researching and revising all present-day portions of the Whoniverse timeline, including the Doctor Who revival and all three of its spin-off shows. It’s complicated, lol, especially during series 7, and I can’t say I’ve finished, but I do think there are definitive answers, including to the bits you felt were irresolvable; “The Day of the Doctor,” for instance, appears to take place in 2016, and that actually fits with the amount of changes we see Clara has undergone in her life between series 7 and Day and Time.
I’ve obsessed over all the evidence long enough to say that the continuity of dates from series 1 on are actually for the most part pretty remarkably consistent, even if by accident much of the time, all things considered. And no, a wrong date barely visible on a newspaper prop is not remotely comparable to the actually canon-destroying weight of the Timeless Children retcon, lol.
People love to say DW has never had good continuity, but in actuality it’s mostly pretty consistent, and even where things do get fuzzy they’re usually minor and isolated in their reach and magnitude and/or entirely reconcilable with enough thought …except for the Timeless Children, lol. But it’s ironic that even Moffat himself would love making that claim, when he was actually pretty darn adamant about canon in practice.
Have you documented that timeline info anywhere? Could be interesting
Amy and Rory have been living on the Tardis throughout their travels with the Doctor. The Doctor probably put them back to the time they left off everytime he would pick them up. 10 years of living on and off on the Tardis. And their aging is explained by the fact that time is relative to every individual meaning they still age on the Tardis.
Are you assuming that we are watching their lives in any particular order?
The Doctor and River - both accomplished time travelers - resort to using diaries to keep track. That means even they are not experiencing their relationship in order. It is possible for each of them to remember something that the other has not yet done.
So each person has their own relative experience of the passage of time. Amy and Rory may not even experience their own relationship in the right order but lacking the relevant temporal senses, or even a diary, they have not noticed.
I'm not criticizing you for trying to figure this out, but Amy Pond was the companion of the "timey wimey, wibbly wobbly" Doctor. Precise numbers were never a priority.
Wobbly-wobbly timey-wimey... stuff, indeed!!! I LOVE the Moffat era!!! 💙💙💙
Absolutely loved this please make more doctor who content had to check your channel after this video and loved your video on series 5 and it completely changed my perspective on the season :)
Thank you so much! More DW videos are in the works at the moment, in fact I’m watching something for my next video as I write this.
Glad you also liked the Series 5 video which I wish I could’ve done more in this style but I wasn’t as used to Premiere Pro at that time. Interesting to learn that it changed your perspective on that series; were you a fan of S5 beforehand?
The brigadeer retired from Unit in 1976, three years before Unit was established in 1979.
I think this is a trick question, and it’s because of all the Time-Travel that was going on.
You overlooked Rory's Hospital ID badge in the 11th hour which says it was issued in November 1990. Royal Ledworth Hospital -Rory Williams -Emergency Unit -Issued -30-11-1990
Amy and Rose are my favorite sidekicks of all time on Doctor who they've had others but to me they're not been as good
Wasn't there a couple of mentions in some of the episodes that alluded to them having travels outside of the episodes? It's been a while, but if this is the case, then it's likely that this could just be used as a catch all for rounding up their ages.
Don't forget time was rewritten and she got both her parents back and so she was never alone. Then it was all dropped by the next ep.
So new timelords can be born if conceived in the time vortex. One thing we never found out, did River have two hearts ? Being conceived on the T.A.R.D.I.S. in flight in the time vortex gave her regeneration and extended lifespan but what other genetic changes happened ?
Sounds like Moffet's screwy Amy Pond timeline is something he could only hope to fend off by employing the Chewbacca defense.
Realistically Amy and Rory were probably in their late 20's or early 30's in The Angels Take Manhatten
Speaking as a 30 year old myself, they just look the age
they do age on the tardis there is a line in a town called mercy “Erm... could we leave it a while?Our friends will start noticing that we're ageing faster than them.”
A pregnancy is technically 10 months and don’t show til the 4th month at least the bump tiny around 6 months is when most people start showing but not everyone.
The thing about the 82 and 87 on the graves doesnt mean anything it could be that when amy was sent back in time it was 5 years later or she died 5 years later not specifically a age mess
Being touched by the same angel usually sends you to the same time. That's why Billy Shipton ended up in 1969 while Kathy ended up in a different time, Billy was probably touched by the same Angel that got the doctor and Martha. Amy probably got touched by the same angel that got Rory, ended up at the same time and lived an extra five years after he died.
@@kristalann5151 yes but sent back in time she could of still lived 5 years longer
Brilliant vid 👏 👌
What about in The Hungry Earth/Cold Blood where Amy and Rory wave to their past selves in the year 2020?
I always thought that since Amy and Rory were 21 ish in Series 5 that Series 7a and the Dinosaurs episode was set around 2020 since Rory says he's 31 and it would be 10 years after that episode took place.
Unless they just visited before the events of Angels Take Manhatten.
Here's my theory:
Amelia - 7 yo when she meets 11 for the first time. (Obviously)
19 yo when he came back (obviously)
21 yo after he closed the time paradox and gave her parents, so at the end of season 5 (obviously as well).
In season 6 she might be between 21 and 23, she didn't age much because she was pregnant for 7 episodes, only at the end of the season when Rory and Amy waited for the Doctor to find Melody - she said in Let's Kill Hitler it's been months since last time. So Amy = 22-24 from episode 8. In the Christmas special, 2 years added -> 24-26 yo.
In season 7A, she is at least 31 because Rory said in Dinosaurs on a spaceship: "Dad, I'm 31. I don't have a Christmas list anymore." We can assume Rory and Amy are the same age. (Although I think Amy's slightly older than him)
Good work my friend. Amy Pond was gorgeous
There is a simple reason it is complicated.
There was 2 different Amelia/Amy Ponds this entire time.
They lived in two different Whoniversis:
And they remembered each others lives because they was living close to the crack in her wall with the timevortex "behind" /"in" it.
Same effect as Clara/Madame Pompadore/Lady Penforte & the Widow (wardobe) that also was exposed to the timevortex. (Capt Harkness is also able but he actully traversed over into the other Whoniverse)
Here are the details on how everything is connected regarding Amelia/Amy.
We begin with what happend in end of episode Doomsday that most missed:
In episode Doomsday the 26th of June 2010 happend and the end of the classic whoniverse ended.
Very cleverly hidden but as the call with Rose gets cut off the classic Whoniverse stopped to exist.
Becasue the Pandorica/Big Bang event happend just as Donna was about to get married.
Here is how we know it.
Its in 10ths wording to Rose.
Parafrased:
"The last crack in the whoiverse is about to close." This is a referance to the Big BANG.
The Doctor observed the crack in normal time. = as the Big Bang spread out to replace the classic Whoniverse with the new Whoniverse: = in normal time that big bang spread out from a point still in the doctors future.
=The Big Bang expanded out from a point in time in both directions = in normal time "before" it happend it looked like it was closing when it infact was growing out from the future as it spread backwards in time...
=As Donna was drawn to the TARDIS series 3-4 took place in the "new" RIVERverse where Amy Pond/Williams lived and remembered the life of Amelia Pond (with no period)
=every single time we saw something wedding related bride, bride, bridegown, engagement ring, bride/Wedding...
the TARDIS jumped between the two whoniversis.
= as we saw Donna again as bride the TARDIS went bk into the classic whoniverse because the 10th .2 wanted to see his sister (ROse MArioN (A)) again (yes Rose is Romana and much more)
= in episode Elventh hour there was the TARDIS jumping twice bk and forth the two whoniversis (see intro since 9th -2nd Curator (PC) how)
= the 11th saved
=As the enemies in the classic WHoniverse kidnapped Amelia they got more then what they bargained for.
They got memories from two whonivesis and the man that had never existed (reason 11th went and got Amelia in end of Eleventh hour to save her from realising the man she was about to marry had never existed) came to be.
I wont go deeply into how much more we can deduce from this but here is a small taste:
(amongst the 2 out of the 4 known different Doctors names) yes FOUR. (1 Doctor for each new WHoniverse and we know about 4 different Whoniversis Doctors)
Classis Whoniverse = Toni Tyler (the 0th) = our (now former) Doctor birth name (never knew he was the 0th Doctor (was seen in the Three Doctors 1973; Doctor Tyler)
New WHoniverse = Birth name Clara Oswald aka the current 0th Doctor (that never knew that shes the actual (new) Doctor her first RAVEN ("death") copy is CAL (in the Library)
Previous/Lost/"Parallell WHoniverse Doctor = a female Rassilon
Previous previous Whoniverse = The classic Whoniverse Celestial Toymaker (as Rassilons fate was to become banished from the new Guardians over time that formed as Gallifrey was burnt in the same moment it was frozen by the Master using Rassilons ascention device at the very last moment to prevent Missy to come to be thus actully making Missy happen (the new Black Guardian over time)
I am not joking:
This above is ALL in the show.
And more just comment and ill explain more. It is NOT a crazy ramblings its the key to understand ALL of Doctor Who.
Rose = Bad Wolf/TARDIS = Mother to the Master = Romana = new White Guardian = Santa (that sent the Bad Wolf/TARDIS (herself) to save Amelia Pond (Eleventh hour start) prayer.
This is in the show. Yes; even the mother to the Master part (Donna Noble and her hearing her heart beating as she got trapped inside the TARDIS in Journeys end. Tap Tap....
Two Hearts = Tap , tap, tap, tap
= Wilfred is 50% the great grandfather to the MAster
As the Meta/Valeyard from inbetween the 12th and final regen (YES count it) its correct 10.2 regen = the 12th and 11th = the final one. (that the Valeyard knew about)
= The Mondasians had the same fate as our Mankind as our Earth was taken out of our classic Whoniverse in Stolen Earth and taken over into the new WHoiverse in Journeys end.
=The Mondasians became the timelords as the newly completed 1st TARDIS by Rassilon saved them just before they died to its harddrive (that later became the Matrix and this is where all regens comes from all the Mondasians saved to it harddrive both as it fell (the first save; the basestations the actual timelords) + the save of all Mondasians thru thier history from 100.000BCE-100.000ADish
AND
the same thing have happend in the New WHoniverse
Where the new 1st timemachine for the new rulers over time inside the new WHoniverse from our Earth as it falls to the Daleks (same but different) was completed during series 4 events....hidden in plain sight.
AND this incomplete timemachine (completed in 5145AD) then saves everyone including Clara /the Raven save;
=The national art gallary in the 50th is the incomplete timemachine
And River Songs mind is the last component.
= RIVERS is the new Timemachine
= As our Eternal president saves us to Trenzalore (the former terraformed (Burnt) by the ascention device Gallifrey)
= The last speech by PC = the TARDIS dragged Galfrey with it into the new Whoniverse during it.
= As the ascention wave was about to hit the TARDIS it thru out JW and dragged and teleported away Gallifrey just as per seen in End of time but from an different angle. (What we didnt see was the TARDIS doing this out of sight)
And The 11th giving all the secrets that must never be told to the former ascended Master at the burning former Gallifrey made the former Master into the regretful Missy.
Because at the very same time; the Whoniverse chose and made Clara the new Doctor during the deamonstar speech....
YES THIS IS IN THE SHOW:
"I Loved being you shining like a sun while the planet burnt..."
That tricked the Master into ascending (burning Gallifrey to spite Missy and thus made Missy came to be....
chris chibnall wrote Dinosaurs on a Spaceship, so obviously nothing in that episode is going to make any sense ;)
When the doctor says tomorrow, he isn't refering to a non time travelers tomorrow but a time travelers tomorrow, so when and how often does the doctor sleep.
Wasn’t any replaced during day of the moon when she is held hostage by the silence , they let the doctor ‘save’ amy and walk away with a clone while they escaped with the real one. Not rewatched a lot of the episodes since I was a child , I’ve sorta just assumed that for years
That’s a fair assumption and I can see why you’d think that since I’m not even sure why she’s held hostage in The Day of the Moon. In A Good Man Goes To War, the Doctor says Amy must’ve been taken “just before America” which is what I went with for the video.
@@TBowenMedia yeah , that’s how I realised I was wrong , that poses the question of why they would kidnap Amy knowing she was a fake
Look how babsolutely stunningly beautiful Karen is. I paused at 0:10 and gazed at my screen with pure amazement and adoration. I think I actually love her 😍😅 Anyway… great video, Bro! I’ve just discovered your channel and am very much enjoying the content!
Glad you’re liking my content and I agree, Karen really is beautiful. So happy her career has gone from strength to strength since Doctor Who.
The difference between something like this and the timeless children is that that reveal cheapens the story hugely, and flattens the Doctor's character.
When the Doctor says in Closing Time that his death is "tomorrow", growing up I always assumed it's, like, his version of "tomorrow". Because he's a time traveler, so the word "tomorrow" doesn't really mean anything to him. I just assumed he decided "OK time's up, I'm gonna do it tomorrow". So Closing Time could really take place wherever we want it to. EDIT oh I commented to soon, you suggest that too :)
Tennant's Doctor already explained this "wibbly wobbly timey wimey"
What about River Song ??
Timey-wimey. Right. Perfect answer.
I really love the timeless child in Doctor who becouse is show the continuity missy timeline in Doctor who probably it is a beauty in itself so we can Interpret the canon anyway we won’t to interpret it
To complicate everythings: trying to look at the timeline with "torchwood, miracle days" events 😆
Hence I deliberately never brought it up 🤣 Given how the events of Miracle Day are never acknowledged by Jack in either S12 or Revolution of the Daleks, I’m wondering if it’s just subtly been retconned out of continuity.
@@TBowenMedia that's the best way to explain it
You missed something. When Amy is an adult and meets the Doctor again, at the end of the episode he leaves in the Tardis and then comes back. I believe she mentions that 2 years have passed. Thus, the 1308 and not 1306 displayed.
There's a reason for the time changes he keep changing the time lines the biggest change is when he goes back to destroy the darleks he changed there time line so the first time they met didn't really happen but he remembers