Religion is pretending to know things you don't know - Aron Ra
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 21 ต.ค. 2024
- Today I spoke with Aron Ra, who grew up in a Mormon home but never actually believed in Jesus or adhered to the Christian worldview. Aron is a strong advocate for crucial issues in the atheist and secular community.
We touched on many topics, including:
• Growing up in a Mormon home with parents who purposely chose to not indoctrinate their kids early.
• Hearing preachers make up claims and tell lies, while claiming they had proof that they did not have.
• Seeing that religion is just people pretending to know things they don't actually know.
• Discerning that we can all make ourselves believe things that are not true, given the right level of indoctrination and self-deception.
• Admitting that there is no transcendent meaning to life and that we don't have souls.
• Realizing that Christian morals are actually just prejudices.
Many thanks to Aron for sharing his story and for all he does for the community!
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Connect with Aron!
@AronRa
/ aron_ra
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Tim may be reached by email at: harmonicatheist@yahoo.com
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--Tim
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Ending music by Eyal Raz, "Friends"
• Friends
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The longer I live the more I realize that the human mind is capable of believing ANYTHING!
Hopefully we’ll progress past this eventually.
I doubt it.
"The human brain is a complex organ with the wonderful power of enabling man to find reasons for continuing to believe whatever it is that he wants to believe."
- Voltaire
Including atheism
@ChairFoldersUnited
Yes except the difference is, most "atheists" are the segment of the population , along with most scientists,
who make use of the scientific method to answer questions regarding the measurable universe, and base their beliefs in search of truth
and facts as far as
research and evidence will prove, to gain and share understanding and knowledge.
As opposed to those who base there knowledge simply on "Faith".
Faith is based on belief without evidence, whereas Science is based on evidence without belief.
The Scientific Mind:
Here are the facts. What conclusions can we draw from them?
The Religious Method:
Here are the conclusions. What facts can we find to support them?
Lol.
MAGA is a cult that people follow.
We will never move beyond this lol
Tim, Aron - don’t feel bad you believed absurd stuff for “so long” - I was about 60 when I realized it was all made up crap! And I taught my children the same crap! Luckily they were critical thinkers long before I was but, I still feel bad about subjecting them to all the end times nonsense.
Been There Big Time
You finally realize you saw no evidence the brain you were using to think with has a Creator?
@@TheHillrat4wd How is the Bible being played out? It has missed the mark on every single point! I earnestly sought, begged for and cried out to god for 60 years and no one ever answered me. Never a single indication anyone was there.
I watched the prayers of dozens fail as they died of cancer, lost their sight and (like me) saw their children die.
Every prophesy in the Bible has failed.
The history and science in the Bible is predominately incorrect.
Jesus never returned 2,000 years ago, as he supposedly promised, or even since.
Every story is copied from other mythologies, god was copied from other religions, Jesus was just like Dionysus and Odysseus performing the same magic tricks! In fact, much of the Bible is found in Homer’s writings which is much older. Why even the Eucharist came from Egypt and Osiris!
Judaism is copied from Zoroastrian and Mithraism, Christianity is just another mystery religion.
It is all made up crap! Just like every other religion! I gave up the search 10 years ago and the only thing different is my peace of mind. So what exactly has happened to prove the Bible is relevant? What has proven the Bible is true? Name just one thing!
That the wacko right wing thinks Trump is their savior?
The man who lied over 30,000 times while in office?
The man who let thousand die of Covid while he spread misinformation and lies? (The U.S. has a disproportionate number of deaths.)
The man who has never been faithful to any of his 3 wives?
The man who has incited more mass murders than any president in history?
The man who is a huckster con? The criminal who tried to steal an election?
The man who planned and oversaw an insurrection?
The Bible is even less credible and more irrelevant today than it has ever been!
Only brainwashed, fully indoctrinated people think it is the word of a god.
Better late than never
like... when pdf file atheists claim that men can give birth?
“Science doesn’t know everything, but religion doesn’t know anything.”
-Aron Ra
LOL haven't heard that before. I laughed really really hard
@@frozentspark2105 like... when pdf file atheists claim that men can give birth?
like... when pdf file atheists claim that men can give birth?
Yes 🙌
Well, thats not quite true. There is one thing they have down to a T. How to manipulate people, and scare them into beliving all kinds of crap. Not just beliving crap, but commit atroceties. Other than that I aagree.
"If there really was one true god, it should be a singular composite of every religion’s gods, an uber-galactic super-genius, and the ultimate entity of the entire cosmos. If a being of that magnitude ever wrote a book, then there would only be one such document; one book of God. It would be dominant everywhere in the world with no predecessors or parallels or alternatives in any language, because mere human authors couldn’t possibly compete with it. And you wouldn’t need faith to believe it, because it would be consistent with all evidence and demonstrably true, revealing profound morality and wisdom far beyond contemporary human capacity. It would invariably inspire a unity of common belief for every reader. If God wrote it, we could expect no less. But what we see instead is the very opposite of that."
Aron Ra
My parents were considerably better at LDS indoctrination than Aron's were. On top of that, I think I was less of a questioner than Aron was as a child. I remember loving church. As a result, it took until I was about 29 to think my way out of Mormonism. When I look back now, it is hard to understand how it took me so long. I sometimes still attend church services with my family. I listen to the lessons and the testimonies, and my jaw drops at how ridiculous it is.
Don't worry about the timing. So many in the Atheist community (not saying you are there) took ages to get there - and getting to the truth is the ultimate goal. I would rather know the truth than live with falsehoods. Atheists usually eventually discover a personal sense of freedom and truth that brings more peace than any religious belief.
I think there's a certain credibility to leaving after reaching full adulthood. I left as a teen, and it was always treated with condescension and a kind of patronizing tone. I heard often that I was "straying", as if one day I would come to my senses and return. When you've lived your entire childhood and young adult life within the church, and _then_ choose to leave--knowing all the deeper theology, experienced in the temple ceremonies, etc--it's harder for them to deny the reality. They probably cook up other excuses, but at least you don't get the pat-on-the-head smarmy smiles while they talk about the "phase" you're going through, accuse you of typical rebellious teen behavior.
right? from my perspective, as someone that wasnt raised religious and never believed any of it, i struggle to this day to comprehend how a majority of all people believe in any of this stuff. its just so juvenile becaue all it is is literally just fantasy stories, like telling me all those people believed in santa or the easter bunny, as grown damn adults it hurts to think about.
'''It's not that they are now allowed to be immoral... It's that they realize that what they were calling 'values' before was really just prejudice oppressing other people." Spot on, Aron, as usual.
I don't find it nonsense. Apparently you never really knew the Lord and all you had was religion. If that's all I had I would be disappointed too. But if you ever see the Lord you know the one that was resurrected on the third day,. You will never never be the same again. He can transform your heart like He did mine. And if you really believed (which you don't) that God does not exist. Then you would not spend your time on these dopey video sites. The fact that you do only proves that you're trying to prop up a belief that you really don't believe. It is that you just want to believe , that's all. Do you fight Santa Claus too? Are you a Aclausist as well? No. People don't try to disprove things that really don't exist. You better rethink your position. Your soul and the souls of your family depends upon it.
@@guyparrish4349If believers in Santa Claus caused as much damage in people’s lives as Christians do, then there would be a lot more opposition to Santa Claus.
@@guyparrish4349 You convinced yourself of all those things, like the people who Aron was talking about: they believed in Krishna and saw Krishna. And they were as certain as you. People of other religions are as sure of being right as you are.
But, there is the thing: for something to be real, it needs to conform with reality, that is, the external world outside your mind. If all the proofs you have are inside your head and you can't show them to anybody else, then you have nothing to convince anyone.
You can believe if you want, and i'm not trying to make you unbelieve. I'm just trying to make you realize that your claims mean nothing if you can't support them, so there is no point making them. In fact, maybe you are doing a disservice by making them: if you say you need a 'transformation of the heart' in order to believe, you are convincing the people who didn't experience that, that they themselves have no reason to believe. If you needed that transformation, why do you expect people to start believing without that?
@@guyparrish4349 I don't think you "know the lord". Usually when someone says that they are referring to some feeling they had at church while the preacher was preaching and the choir was singing in the background. The same feeling you get when you watch a touching movie or listen to a beautiful song. The only reason you associate it with a god is because you were told that's what that feeling is by other christians. Does god audibly speak to you? If not then how could you know somebody without communicating with them? If so then you might want to get checked by a doctor. Most of the time it's just a feeling or just outright asserting "I know the lord" with absolutely no explanation to what that means. It's self delusion.
@@guyparrish4349LoL, that's just horribly confused and dishonest.
Arons willingness to face his past honestly is commendable.
And a possible embarrassment that anyone from a religious superstitious background has to face and deal with in order to overcome the conditioning.
I fully appreciate every single individual who has risen up to this type of challenge. 👍😍
@@RobertStambaugh-l5r
Jesus may be your truth ,
however storybook characters, whether they are ancient or modern, are merely fictional devices used to drive narratives. And while the new testament narrative holds importance for many Christians it has nothing to offer those who seek a life free of superstition and unsubstantiated claims
"When a beautiful topless woman with a cat's head shows up and says worship me, well ya do". 😂😅😂😅
@@RobertStambaugh-l5r
You mean the propaganda of the Bible, it's apologists, and other believers
feels like truth for you ...
@@RobertStambaugh-l5r
You mean his unsupported narrative
feels like truth to you. Ok.
@@Bennyhinn3
Your ability to detect vibes in others sounds like sorcery.
By the time I was ten I was mentally DONE with the church, although I did have to sit there deflecting theocratic garbage for eight more years. I couldn't even get beyond god knocking down the walls of people's homes, of their city, or sacrificing animals, much less the heinous tragedy of Passover or telling some dad to sacrifice his kid for you. I feel lucky and know for certain now that I was a skeptic from early on. What harmed me most was being taught WHAT to think rather than HOW to think. Still working through that "abuse", as it were.
JW huh. Me too. Glad you got out 🍺👍
I was spoon-fed Christianity from birth, and I always rejected it.
I was made to feel like an outcast from my whole family, but I would never back down to stupidity.
I hope I live to see the day when ALL religions are banned.
@@iancampbell2295 I agree, as much as I try to be compassionate I just can't can't tolerate religion
@@frozentspark2105 👍👍🚫✝️
It takes courage to finally accept that all religions are creations of the Human mind. It's ultimately liberating.
Your channel is growing nicely Tim. Having the legend himself on must be an honor.
According to atheist religion, What is wrong about incest?
should we ask mat pedolahunty, commie harris or richard dorkins?
We’ve all been “catfished”. Here’s a pretty picture of a handsome young man with doe eyes who loves you. He just needs you to believe that you’re special and that he’s “coming soon” to be with you, but he needs help. Money and worship helps, but don’t ask questions. Don’t doubt, because doubting is not Christian.
" I wonder if it's possible im fooling myself. "
A question worth keeping around for a long time. So much of the internet is filled with" Imagination Passing as Truth".
Yes. It is amazing how many religious people cannot even discuss the possibility that it could all be fiction.
If it's fun to believe it must be true.
@@RobertStambaugh-l5r Yes, of course. That is the scientific method. Question EVERYTHING. But then only believe good evidence from experiment or observation.
@@RobertStambaugh-l5r
Sure. I've questioned pretty much every idea, concept, theory, proposition, or ideology I've come in contact with.
However I was never told Darwinism was a religion of absolute truth which would never need revising.
Also I've met plenty of religious people are fine with evolution theory. Often they just claim their God kick-started it.
I remember when telling members of my family I'd become an atheist. My aunt said, 'You should be careful what you read... you might be influenced!' Right... I'm almost 60(at the time) and I'm going to be 'influenced.'
Also note the pure irony of your Aunt's comment!
After reading Jon Krakauer’s book “Under the Banner of Heaven “, I realized when it comes to religion some people will write and say anything and others will believe anything. This has caused me to hang a question mark on my own beliefs that I haven’t been able to remove. Thanks for the great interview!
Why not just go directly to the source of truth and ask? You don't need a religious authority.
Always love an Aron Ra discussion.
Thank you
Aron made a great video responding to “A Priest’s Open Letter” by Father Casey Cole, where Aron spoke in a such a kind and articulate manner. What struck a chord in that reponse video was when he said “I don’t attend church because I don’t like being lied to.”
Thank you, Aron, for doing this interview.
As a child I remember a conversation with a religious relative who told me you had to be saved for your soul to go to heaven. I asked what happened if you weren't saved and was told that the devil then gets your soul. I said if the devil gets your soul without either of you doing anything then the devil must have MANY more souls than God has. If their goal is to get people's souls, then the devil must be way ahead and therefore more powerful. She didn't buy my conclusion, but also couldn't offer anything to refute it. Belief without logic, that's the essence of faith.
It’s Nov. 1 as I listen to Aron and Tim. It’s “all souls” day, but I seem to be alone, listening to the soothing voice of reason.
You and I had a lot of the same background on religious stuff except I got caught up in Christianity for a while. Feels better being mentally free nowadays. Less anxiety and cognitive dissonance.
Agree. No need any more for the mental gymnastics trying to reconcile suffering and injustice with a loving God.
Tim, you nailed what happens after the nonsense ends. I had no knowledge of atheists at the time I quit. I spent years rethinking what had been indoctrinated into me by parents and preachers. I then found TH-cam atheist and have studied religion, religiously (ha!) to understand what is known by the scholars. Aron's book was one of my reads. Keep up the good work.
"Religion began when the first scoundrel met the first fool." -- Voltaire
Aron....you are so fortunate. I was raised in the faith, my father a minister and his father a minister. Raised as a pastors son, a PK. Never went to public school, always church school. Finally began the process of thinking for myself, but it was a terrible struggle, emotional and painful. Lost all my friends, save one. Hard time making new ones as an adult. I am now quite cynical as a result of de-converting. Still hurts, still feel the tug. Those sayings are so true; give me a child until 10, and I will show you the old man. Fear and loathing. My brain still conjures up snippets of church, songs, and fundamental beliefs that shaped me for more than 25 years, pounded into my skull from birth. Sabbath once a week, prayer meetings once a week, prayers constantly; meals, bedtime, waking, morning worship, vespers, week of prayer....what chance did I have? I can't say I am happier now that I no longer believe in the literal jesus, god or what have you. All my relatives are still Adventists, my father and I never discuss religion. Most of them fervently believe I am lost, will not be with them in heaven. Some days...I tell you, its a tough life. Conditioning never dies. Parents, be so careful what you expose your children to. Religion, TV, yelling, pop culture in general, anything and everything, it stays for life. Now as a man in my 50's, I really dont care. My entire childhood is sort of erased, a kind of irrelevant smoke screen, and yet I have to acknowledge it. Ah well...some of us come through okay, some never can shed the old feelings of guilt, the feeling of never fitting in.
I am so happy that my parents weren't religious. I never believed in any of this shit. People are more worried about what happens after they die, instead of what happens while they are alive. Just be a decent human, that's all we can ask.
I am vegan because I care for animal rights. We do not need to eat other creatures. I am amazed at how few vegans there are amongst Christians. Where is the compassion and respect for creation? There are far more kind atheists than Christians in my experience.
Tim, I can listen to the two of you all day long. I loved this video, I had no idea Aron Ra was baptized Mormon, him having the knowledge of what y’all talked about is amazing. I love hearing these stories. He’s a living legend. Salute.
The fact that _life_ has no meaning, doesn't make _living_ meaningless.
This was great, I’d never heard Aron’s personal story.
AronRa resonates with me somewhat because I wasnt a member of "mainstream American Christianity" I was a Greek Orthodox Christian, and I also dabbled in Eastern religion and philosophy, specifically Vaishnava Hinduism, like AronRa mentioned AC Bhaktivedanta Swami Prabhupada.
And he's totally correct about the strength of "Eastern" spiritual practices. I received a more powerful psychosomatic response from meditation than anything in Christianity. Granted, Buddhism admits its merely psychosomatic, but its a powerful psychosomatic effect.
The mind is very very powerful and a lot of religious experience stems from our minds. Or other experience for that matter.
Very informative thank you
@@frozentspark2105 According to atheist religion, What is wrong about genocide?
should we ask mao zedong?
@@MilitantAntiAtheism atheism isn't a religion
@@frozentspark2105 Atheist religion has pagan religious rituals and prayers and false prophets, exactly like islame has. For example, when a pdf file atheist man wants to become woman, all he does is he prays to prophet richard dorkins, and then, _instantly_ he becomes biological born female. It's a miracle alHAMdulil Lah!
@@MilitantAntiAtheism No, it isn't. Atheism is nothing more than: Not believing in a god. It's no more than that. You are misinformed
there is a reason most ex-theists have a really hard time letting go of religious thinking. because their critical thinking is shoved to the back so much by religious indoctrination that its incredibly rare and difficult to completely build up as an adult. i cant even imagine.
I've noticed that as well. I was not indoctrinated myself and it does seem that when someone is and then breaks away from it, they tend to use the same method of thought but against the indoctrinating ideology instead of for it. It does seem to get better with time in most though. At least that's my experience with those I know.
Ex-Christians usually hold on to Christian preconceptions and stereotypes of other religions too, which is disappointing.
It took me a long time to shake those myself & add nuance to my statements on what "religion" is or does and what's really true of all "Abrahamic faiths" for example. Having a Jewish wife who's agnostic helped open my eyes to a lot of that.
I think such people would benefit from training in logic and statistics
@@boxelder9147 logic and statistics get you nowhere good without verifiable facts to which to apply logic and a certain threshold of contextual knowledge from which to interpret statistics. Such people need a good, well-rounded (re) education.
I was never indoctrinated with any religion, and nor did I try to substitute anything like Jedi. That is as bad. I don't need a philosophy - I have a life that needs living.
I wish there truly was a loving and just creator. If there were this world would be so much nicer. As it is all we have are stupid religions made up by men and pushed onto others by fear and bullying. Religions that discourage questioning and critical thinking.
Its only weird when you are an outsider. When you're an insider its not weird, its "sacred"
Yeah - those words ‘sacred’, ‘holy’ and ‘inerrant’ are such dead-enders, aren’t they?
Agree. The unquestioning belief in absurdities is praised. Why did God give us thinking brains then??
Thanks for the opportunity for giving Aron a platform Tim!.....his explanatory was so interesting!
Aron is a true inspiration. He shows us what a well-read brain should sound like.
This is a big win for this channel
At first the appearance of Aron was alarming, now it is endearing.
He looks like he could be one of my friends.
Always enjoy listening to a discussion with Aron Ra
My family was asked to leave me at home and not bring me to church when I was a teenager. I was removed and barred from a Christian school because I questioned the Bible to much.... I have been proud of those achievements since I was 15.
Christianity is a incredible creed whose credo is that credulity is a virtue. Belief is the proverbial Pit of ignorance and deception, dressed up as a virtual garden.
I've got to say, I was raised LDS but looking back, I don't recall ever really buying what the church was selling. I hated going to church. I hated sitting in a meeting room with men who felt free to verbally (and physically, sometimes) abuse boys my age who they felt weren't paying strict attention. So I'd split most of the time and go for a walk in the woods that were behind the church. My rationale was, "I don't know who built the church building, but if there's a God, He's the one Who made the woods." I always felt a lot closer to Him when I looked at the trees and the animals than I did when I was cooped up in that stuffy church building. My parents were not very happy with me for skipping Sunday school, and I tried to explain myself to no avail. So the day I realized I didn't have to go anymore, I quit going. I'm very sorry for hurting them like that, but I couldn't pretend to be something I wasn't or believe something I didn't. And trust me, I prayed. "Please show Yourself to me." Nothing. Despite everything, I continued to be close to my parents right up until the day each of them died. I can only hope they considered me a good enough son, even though I didn't share their beliefs. I don't understand parents who would disown their children just because their children didn't believe what they believed. That's not very Christlike, is it?
Just a minor trivia note: Joy to the World was written by the late, great Hoyt Axton, who also lent Three Dog Night another classic, Never Been to Spain. He also wrote The Pusher for Steppenwolf, and as an actor he starred as the dad in Gremlins. He had a real moment there in the 70s and 80s! One of the greatest American singer/songwriters ever.
This was so helpful to me. I didn't start questioning my beliefs until I was around 40, and that carries a lot of embarrassment and shame. It's good to hear I'm not alone!
Excellent! I hope this helps boost your channel Tim! Thank you Tim and Aron!
Edit, adding in commentary. I know there's a lot of different ways "visions" can happen, but they are still perplexing when they can't be readily explained. There's mental health issues, physiological things whether it's mold infestations or drugs or brain tumors etc, but the psychosomatic stuff is really hard. It's like you can imagine something so much that that imagination component itself can just run wild and take over.
Personally, I had a "vision" that was in hindsight probably a sleep paralysis. I was floating over myself sleeping at about age 13 and I saw myself spook awake with red eyes. And I shot up awake terrified. That was around the time that I was entering into the peak of my Christianity. A few years later I sort of imagined the problems in my life manifesting as an evil presence that I was trying to banish, but I also realized I'm the moment that I was controlling that idea or dynamic. I had manifested it and wished it away "in the name of Jesus." If I'm "manifesting" "evil" as a Christian just to larp through the process of banishing it ineffectually, what am I doing? I'm just spinning my tires and going on circles doing things because these are the things you do, snake eating it's own tail.
Beyond my faith and early adulthood, I used to have very vivid dreams and nightmares that had a common theme of an apocalypse or death etc, not prophetic necessarily, but it felt like it. I'm not 100% on the psychological interpretation of it all, I had those dreams consistently for like a decade, once a month it was an apocalyptic night terror. Probably the most dramatic one was the sun had expanded and the apocalypse came, and the side of the world that was night survived for just a few more hours. I watched the sun rise green and burning after watching pandemonium break out in the streets and everyone scrambling to get to be with their loved ones and such.
In hindsight, there's a lot of loaded meaning in all of that. Similar to how my "evil presence" presence experience "manifested," Christianity WANTS an apocalypse so it can finally be true and we can all be dead. Except of course for grander natural causes like an asteroid or the sun expanding etc, Christianity sometimes literally has its finger over the button of a human caused event. But more precisely, the wishing for - for example - violence in the middle east. A slow moving apocalypse happens every day in a sense. The broken clock is right twice a day, every day is an apocalypse to them, the rapture is always tomorrow, as the can gets kicked down the road, perpetually living in fear for themselves but also in indignation for others, allowing it to manifest. It's a complex thing, but Israel establishing itself as a modern state is in part directly linked to the open and secret wishes of well intending Christians in high places, there was Zionism too. I don't want to get too deep into this, I support peace. But imagine if history had been a little different and there weren't British lords trying to spur on biblical prophecy into happening to manifest the end times. Now look at it. How's those end times going? The times aren't ending, it's just perpetuating some serious bs. It's not a rapture, it's somewhat mutual mass murder. We should want higher things for ourselves and humanity, not pet projects trying to fulfill supernsturalist prophecy. Anyway.
I once wrote a song about a fictitious vision, but it's metaphoric and represents my atheistic advent.
"Heaven called collect toll free, bright white light shone down on me. Then shaped just like a burning tree, god said he might not be for me, that if I choose not to believe then he would not exist for me."
And poof, just like that, the spell can be broken, you can manifest something else and be free. You can have power over "god," because he only exists in our minds, and in society as bs.
*mic drop*
Yet another amazing interview Tim, you are both legends!
So good to get a background, Aron. Thank you Sirs for sharing, Great discussion!
Hi Tim! Sorry I haven't been around for awhile because I've been struggling with medical problems, surgeries, and in and out of the hospital and I also haven't had Internet access. Damn I wish I knew your address so I could send financial help because I know you're struggling. My Patrion account got all messed up a couple years ago when I tried to send you financial help and I haven't been able to straighten it out but you are still always on my heart and in my thoughts...you have my complete support concerning your personal life and you've done nothing wrong... you're a great Dad, an awesome dude, and have been a wonderful husband to your wife. My heart breaks and goes out to you...I hate seeing you in so much pain. Love ya Brother.❤
I love this conversation. Thank you both.
Fear is the biggest obstacle to investigating beliefs. Ive crawled out and back into the shell a few times because i got scared and relapsed into blind belief.
I have found that once you lose belief it is impossible to get it back, even if you want to. It just all sounds absurd.
This is a powerful observation, especially when you understand how the emotional experience of fear actually switches off large parts of the rational centers in our brains. It’s why the threat of hell is so powerful and “persuasive”. When people get frightened by the idea that God will consign them to an eternity of torture they literally stop thinking clearly. In their fear they become credulous and far more willing to uncritically accept what they’re being told. The same phenomenon also occurs when people get caught up in emotionally compelling music; the rational centers get throttled down and information gets accepted without much scrutiny. And through centuries of trial and error, churches have mastered these emotionally manipulative techniques-nearly always without understanding the true dynamics at play-and instead claim it’s all the Holy Spirit either bringing people under conviction (fear-based conversion) or bringing them an experience of God’s love (sentimental-based conversion or confirmation of existing belief).
Privileged to have met Aron and Lilandra.
Another great interview, and I'm so glad for you that you were able to speak to Aron personally
Aron Ra on anything is thumbs up automatically,
Im now so glad life doesn't have a meaning. It means I have freedom to do whatever I want with my meaning in life instead of being enslaved by "predetermined" meaning like conservative Christians are.
If the meaning of life is to earn brownie points for an existence after death, that is no life at all, it is a prison that deprives you of a multitude of experiences.
I've heard Aron talk about being into TM at one point in his life. The one thing that I really fell into was Astral projection, which I actually had morph out of the remote viewing plethora of books and audio training which was big around '97-00. It taught me to relax, handle my anxiety attacks which came a few years later, and control my breathing. Generally it took my constant high strung state down enough notches to let me stop being on the edge of a panic attack every hour. More than a decade later I found DBT via a dr, and as a more structured implementation of mindfulness; it also helped with the same issues.
I got a lot of stress relief from meditating (I learned TM too, and I even did the Sidhis program). But TM had too much grifting and trappings to take it seriously (they were trying to buy up a bunch of property everywhere, reminded me of Scientology). I wish I had kept up with the physical yoga part (they called them asanas), and had kept to a regular meditation/mindfulness routine (like just 5 to 15 mins a day would have been good for me I'm sure). I also stopped drinking along the way and that helped me the most (for my peace of mind). I'm grateful to hear Aron explain that the more amazing so-called "spiritual" experiences are still just experiences, they don't mean anything that people make them mean.
I want to do this!!!
Wow, Tim, you two together should have a regular Q&A video atleast once a month. You both complement each other nicely. This was one of my favorites. Man, your an excellent interviewer. I feel like you and Aron could do great things if you did a podcast…similar to like misquoting jesus podcast with Bart and Megan
He is excellent because he respectfully listens and doesn't interrupt his guest.
@@carolwilliams8511Absolutely right. He’s genuinely interested in the stories. He’d make a great journalist.
Do you know if Megan is an atheist too?
Thank you for having AronRa on! 🖖
I was raised by catholic parents but when I started questioning things around 12 and didn't want to go to church anymore they allowed me to stop. Then in my 20s I started studying eastern religions and came to realize Toaism spoke most to me. And yes Jedi is very toaist, which is why I connected with it so much, having been changed by Star Wars when I was 6 and saw it in the theater back in 77.
outstanding guest. a voice worth listening to. keep it up!
Aaron is the best, and I can listen to him speak all day.
My story is similar to Aron's, and I'm about same age 60, I called BS on it around age 8 though I had the indoctrination into Catholicism since I guess old enough to walk and talk. I consider myself always an atheist and never believed it.
Same, but within the Christian Orthodox Church. For me, the mystery was blown when I watched Wizard of Oz at primary school as a six year old, then put 2 and 2 together at church watching "the show," the dressed up priests put on while having to go behind their curtains. The cognitive dissonance began then, and I was so curious about everything that I reasoned my way to truth.
@@Venusbabe66wow. Cool how you put those together and reasoned your way to truth.
I wasn't indoctrinated at all. Exposed to Christian teachings at school in the 1960s in England. I believed it until I was 40 but in the Anglican Church it is all very low key stuff and allows many shades of belief. My problem was that people were not committed and zealous enough! My crisis of faith came about because most of the Christians I knew were so lukewarm. That made me question the power of the holy spirit to change people and from there to question whether that spirit even existed. Lost faith followed. God was either not there or had rejected me and gone silent and absent on me. I chose the former view as making more sense.
This was a great interview.
Nice! Aron Ra is in the House! Whoop whoop😊
AronRa’s “Joy to the World” story was priceless!
No one wants to admit that trusted adults filled their heads full of super natural nonsense.
Those adults also had adults who put that shite on them. And they failed to ever question it.
Oh wow, what a guest!
Your content is amazing. Thanks for all you do!!
Tim ! You got the amazing Aron Ra !!
And as always, this was an excellent presentation !!
Faith is not truth. Faith is the cyst we grow around ourselves to shield us from the painful truth that we are responsible for our own lives and that they will end.
Aron Ra is the man. Thanks for having him on as a guest. Cool stuff.
Wow, I had to pause and comment. I've listened to quite a bit of Aron Ra but somehow was not aware he was baptized Mormon!
Fascinating conversation
Love hearing about his experience!
I didnt click the bell!!!🤦♀️ I missed the G.O.A.T. of atheists. Watching late...but watching. Thx U Tim!!
WOW!!! IT'S ARON RA!!! We are the champions!
…my friend!
Tim! You got to interview Aron Ra?! That's quite a coup i think. Good on you!
Aron, I’m glad to finally hear your story. Have been a fan for years. Very relatable especially time-wise since we are apparently almost the same age.
It's literally the opposite. People who are religious, ONLY do it so that they CAN sin.
They do ALL the evil things they say atheists are doing. Then go "Forgive me sky daddy!" and then do it all over next week.
It's their hall pass. If they didn't want to sin: They'd become ahteists. Their holy book is the one that says child grape is not only okay, it's ENDORSED by god.
💯
Where in the Bible is child rape promoted?
@@boxelder9147 Well, we can START with the LITERAL instructions of how to capture child shrek shaves. You know? Unalive the women, the men, the peepee children (who HAS to be ritualistically unalived to god. God LOVES human shakrifice. "For I, the lord: LOVE the smell of burning flesh.". But the little girls? Keep THOSE as your spoils of war. BUT: Wait a month before you start graping them. So that you can be SURE they aren't pregnant with some other man. THEN you gotta shakrifice them too for being unclean.
Then, we can move onto David, and MANY, MANY other men in the bible, who grapes children. "As is their right". And god says: "This is a man, in MY IMAGE.". Child grapists are gods chosen people. It is VERY moral and good. As they are entitled to.
If you grape a child that isn't sold yet: Then you HAVE to purchase that child from her male owner. (father, most likely.) Because you damage HIS property. But, give him $50, and you're free to grape that child HOWEVER much you want. As she is YOUR property now after you bought it. (Though, if you grape ANOTHER man's property, that IS or WAS already pre-sold: THEN you have to die. Because that is a crime against ANOTHER MAN, which is unforgivable... also: Unalive that child too, because she is worthless now.
We can also mention the story of the time they had to find ~600 child shrek shaves that time they unalived almost the ENTIRE tribe of Benjamin, I think it was? And then went "Whoops, we can't unalive ALL the Benjamins... but we DID just unalive ALL their women and children... SHREK SHAVES IT IS!" and they went out and hunted+kidnapped young preteen girls to give to the 40 year old men as "wives". And GOD WAS PLEASED. THIS WAS JUSTICE!
The bible endorses practically ALL immoral and evil acts. But gets angry at moral actions because... sky daddy offended that you eat shrimp or wear mixed fabric.
Amusingly though: The bible DEMANDS abortion. NO EXCEPTION. For several acts. Child out of wedlock? Abortion. PERIOD. God COMMANDS it. Drink the bitterwater, have an abortion. Bastards MUST die. Fetus? NOT alive. NOT human. UNTIL it breathes air: God says that is a worthless object. Very much... not what the pro-death party in the US protest over... who falsely claim god wants babies to live.
Aron Ra nearly tops the list of people I’d like to shake hands with and personally thank.
I suppose god would top Aron if he weren’t so busy
NOT EXISTING 😡.
Good Show Tim !
I have even challenged God to strike me dead for not believing in Him. Nothing happened of course. I am still very much alive.
It is amazing how the mind creates what you focus on, your reality will conform to your beliefs. This is how people end up believing in a higher power because they may believe that humans are not capable of creating anything profound on their own, when in reality it is your own mind that is creating your reality.
Star Wars release date was my 9th birthday. It was the wildest thing I had ever seen. Didn't feel the need to make it my religion, but it was impactful.
Religion: Imaginary Friends for adults…
I was the guy who was 45 years old before I realized snakes don’t talk. That was 3 5 years ago.I feel that.
I suspended reality for the Bible. I was such a moron.
No. You were not a moron. You were a trusting person who believed what you were taught, never suspecting that it was all BS.
You're supposed to integrate claims with your existing knowledge of reality, not believe something because you felt an emotion.
@@carolwilliams8511You're not supposed to do that. You're not supposed to be a gullible person who swallows all the BS that they're told. That's how a typical slave would live, because they find it too effortful to exercise their mind.
Amazing interview. I just subscribed to the channel, and I really enjoyed this conversation. As someone who grew up in a Christian household, then left it behind for new age beliefs, and now is fiercely skeptical and tries to be unapologetically rational, this conversation resonated with me quite a bit. Thank you so much for this discussion.. Also, what is that song that's playing at the very end of the program? Thank you.
AronRa, thank you for being a continuing voice of reason. I appreciate what you are doing. And tossed you a sub Tim. Nice interview.
Thank you very much!
@@HarmonicAtheist I have to say this - when someone pretty much knows it's not true and they still have to believe. They no longer are believing - it all or which ever part of it - they are just either trying to fool themselves or believing folk important to them. That's how it sounds. But I am sure it's obvious - just wanted to also add that I enjoy these videos.
What an awesome inverview. Aron you are a treasure.
Good hearing, Aron. I went through all the eastern religions, but ended with the Four Noble Truths. A gentle philosophy.
Thanks, Tim, as always.
Always an atheist.
Buddhism while
technically atheist
leads one to God..
the Nothing is
something
I'm still learning that common sense does better.
Great interview!
Aron is awesome!!!
I love this dude.
Thanks for all you do, Aron!
Aron's points about children not having religion thrust on them and having them stunted: I've never thought about that. But being raised Catholic in a private catholic school, yes it definitely retarded my development. I wonder how different life would be if I had been exposed to different beliefs and then allowed to choose for myself way back then.
Great interview. Thank you🍀🍀🍀
Aron's videos regarding the history of life forms on Earth are amazing, recapitulating the entire history (pretty much).
Took me until I was about 17 before I broke away from my conditioning at the church, then many years of programming to undo.
This interview mirrors my life !! Thanks for presenting these insights so clearly .
I am alone now with everything drifting in space and in good company.👻
My two favorite snakes are Corn Snakes, and Rainbow Boas. I had a Corn Snake when I was 11 years old, and I had to give it to a friend because my mom hated it.
And when I was living in Panama I caught three Rainbow Boas and turned them in to the Smithsonian Center who were paying $1,200 each for them, because they were endangered at the time, and I worked at Quarry Heights, which was off limits to most people at the time.
Ahh Tim, you got one of the greats on! Aron Ra!
He’s a legend! I’ve learned so much from him, Tracy, and Matt
I was in the Utah Guard and my best friend in the unit called himself a "secular Mormon.". Part 1 of my walk to atheism.
What was your MOS? Just curious
Aron is awesome. Glad you had him on.
I had all kinds of questions as a kid. How were two people able to populate the entire world (same with Noah's family) why did the tree get put in the garden in the first place? Why don't animals talk anymore? Why don't we see the same miracles in the Bible? Why doesn't God show up and talk to us like he used to? And many more that I kept to myself because even though the questions bugged me, I was raised to believe all of it was true and we weren't supposed to think about it. I was told not to rely on logic. It's scary when you bring these up now as adults and they look at you like you're the crazy one.
An amazing interview, just spot on.
The best definition for religion
Awesome show!