Ford 641Tractor-Which Cylinder is No 1 Front or Rear- Read Description Box
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 25 ต.ค. 2024
- #fordtractorfiringorder #641Forddistributer #whatcylinderisnumber1
NOTE: THERE WILL BE AN ADDENDUM TO CLARIFY WHAT IS LEFT UNCLEAR AT THE END OF THE VIDEO AS IT STANDS. STAY TUNED IT WILL BE SOON !!
Through a sketch, it is shown that the firing order, 1243, is utilized to wire in the distributor when the cylinders are identified from the FRONT of the engine. It is also shown how identifying the cylinders from the rear works out to be the same utilizing the same firing order. Yes, it is strange, but if you are interested in this sort of thing, it will kinda twist your mind to follow the thought process from start to finish. The actual answer to the odd wiring sequence from the back of the engine being correct ONLY if the distributor is installed 180* out. With the distributor installed correctly, the sequence is 1243 from the front to rear.
There is a little repetition of words and redundancy of speech....the same thing is even said more than once on occasion. But bear with it, because it kinda ends up making sense if you've got the mindset for twisted thought.
This whole thing came about because of TH-cam's suggestion to check out another tubers video. He ends up with a smooth running tractor, but I really had to figure out just how he did it by calling out the cylinders totally backwards to what I always considered the normal for the Ford engine. I Gotta give the gentleman kudos for imitating Charlie Daniels and going to L.A. via Omaha, and taking directions from old 'Wrongway Corrigan'.... because all three of them ended up where they needed to be eventually. So all is good. And no, I am throwing no shade at the original poster nor am I trying to make anyone look bad...Its just one of those things that didn't make good sense on the surface so I wanted to get to the bottom of it for sure.
Enjoy the mind bending twisted thinking that went into the quick and simple making of this video....but I just HAD to know. Inquiring minds....
I read the same thing online and felt like an idiot when my tractor wouldn’t start so I’m glad you cleared that up . I thought #1 was at the front but reading online said the opposite then my tractor wouldn’t start saw your video confirmed what I originally thought and BAM 💥 she’s back in action
You’re a good man and absolutely right keepem coming, you’re not egotistical when you’re right !!!
Awesome !! I am glad you got it figured out. I hope to see you stop by some of the other videos too.
1 -2-3-4 from the RADIATOR to the dash. #1 is closest to the radiator, #4 is closest to the dash or the steering wheel. Not hard to remember.
Yes, I agree. I never heard of another inline 4, 6 or 8 that DIDN'T go from the front to the rear. The video I referenced but didn't link was a guy that had inadvertently installed his distributor 180* out and numbered his cylinders from the rear to the front. His video was done in a 'how to' manner that showed how he did it and I couldn't believe it worked with reversed numbering .....but it does. Which is why I sketched it out in this video. Even though it works the way he did it, the real way of course is front to rear, distributor oriented correctly instead of 180* out. Another thing, he never questioned his work at all, he just showed it as thought its the way to do it. Which is why I did not link it.
I was having a problem with my Ford 2000 and happened upon your video. It was exactly what I needed to hear and SEE! I am a visual kind of guy and so much appreciate the drawing to explain firing order and numbering of cylinders with #1 being on the radiator end of the engine!
Awesome Tom !! Glad to hear it helped a bit. The fellow I was referencing was way off base... it only worked out from the rear because he'd installed the distributor 180 degrees out of time. It took a little time thinking about how he got it to work and that's the ONLY way. #1 on an inline engine is always going to be in front. Even on a skid steer with the engine in the back, the front of the engine is facing backwards, but it it still the FRONT!! Now there's always the exception to the rule, but you'd have to look pretty far and wide to find it.
@@tractorman4461
@@tractorman4461 Still having trouble with my 3 cylinder gas Ford. It was working fine..then developed a miss. I was able to get it home and proceeded to replace the points, plugs, condenser, carb cleaned, replaced coil, and seems to be getting plenty of gas. It has done this very thing before and was solved? by putting on a new coil...it really has me stumped! I replaced the wires,, rotor, and distributor cap but nothing has worked yet. When I say the tractor is missing, I mean it is running very rough and irrecgular as compared to a steady miss like a bad plug .
@@tgrimsley As long as the distributor has not been removed the timing has not been changed from when it was running smoothly. Firing order is 1,2, 3 and the cylinders are 1, 2, 3 from front to rear. If you have an VOM- Volt Ohm Meter, to check the resistance of the primary coil circuit set it to a low ohm setting and check across the + and - terminals of the coil. A standard 12v coil should be somewhere between .5 and 4 ohms. A very low resistance. If its much over 4 ohms, chances are the coil is bad. Then to check the secondary resistance set the ohm meter between the center coil terminal and the + terminal. The resistance should be more than 6,000 ohms but not over 15,000 ohms. That will be a start. Of course if you have carbon wires and not copper core wires, there could be separation or partial separation in the carbon in one of them. Also check the condensor. Cheap new ones are know to be faulty. The condensor is basically a capacitor. The VOM must have a 'capacitance' test mode. Short the condensor coil to its case to ensure the stored voltage is discharged, then put the test leads between the wire and the case. The capacitance should read in the vicinity of .2 of a mfd (micro-farad). If the meter reads zero, the condensor is 'open' and and if it reads much over .2 it is bad as well. The distributor cap can only fit one way because it should have a notch in it to fit the base of the distributor body, and there should be a number 1 on the cap. Attach the wires 1 to 1, 2 to 2 and 3 to 3 in a counter clockwise direction around the cap. This should get you off to a good start to finding the problem....and I hope it helps. sometimes my memory remembers stuff a little off though. LOL Good luck Tom and let me know what you find buddy !! Off the cuff though I'd double check the plug wires for correct placement on the cap first.
@@tgrimsley I just made a comprehensive reply to your question and I forgot to add a link to my 2000 Ford 3 cylinder that I couldn't get to run below freezing temps. So I converted it to electronic ignition and its not failed yet all the way down to 5* F. That could end up being your ultimate solution, but I would go through all the normal check FIRST. If you watch this 13 minute video, I'd suggest reading the description box before viewing the video. I am sooooo glad I made the change Tom. Before, my 2000 was unusable in the winter time....and I had the standard electrical components spot on specs too and it still did not run in cold weather.
That is now a theory that I never thought of, very informative, it's like debating if the engine have four cylinders or four pistons, both different but the same meaning, thanks for sharing the my friend
Well it was a mind bender for a while. I still haven’t thought it all the way through yet. Thanks Jan for watching.
Boy, my head hurts now LOL! I was always taught to work from the front of the engine, not the rear. I think the other fella got lucky.
Believe me on this one....you were taught right Matt. I left this too confusing at the end and I will be adding a couple minutes to the end to clarify what's up. Matt from 'Matt and Andy American Tradesmen' stripped his wires from a 640 and duplicated the sequence illustrated just to see. The key is the way the sequence appears to be correct just by rotating the numbering sequence of the wires 180*....
Love these visual explanations!
Thanks Steve. But I wouldn’t just go and change wires around before I spent a little time in thought about just how this really happened mechanically. Timing marks are supposed to be for the REAL # 1 cylinder. Thanks Steve for the comment.
At my country engines have cylinder numbers starting from pulley. Nice video!
Most all four cylinders are from front to back I think. So it caught my attention quick when the other fellow numbered it from the rear !! Thanks for watching and commenting.
Great Scott I think you've soved my problem.....😯
This guy that I was referring to clearly had his distributor in 180° out of Time, which is what allows it to fire correctly with the cylinders misnumbered.
That was very interesting, although I was taught to count from the front of the engine.
Front to rear is always the way on the Ford 4 bangers. The video I watched caught my attention because the fellow said on this model tractor (641) the cylinders are numbered the opposite, from rear to front. I don't think he knew otherwise either. If he had known, I think he would have noted that the distributor had been installed 180* out. I had strong suspicion but until I drew it out I couldn't see how the motor could possibly run. LOL.
Matt from Matt and Andy American Tradesmen commented above that he took his running 640 and wired it just like the one I described and it wouldn't hit a lick. He too pretty much knew from the start that the distributor was installed 180* out. He made a video and put it on his channel if you'd like to see it: th-cam.com/video/DjwZbNhMKrY/w-d-xo.html
I know this video is a few years old but I have a question kind of on this topic. I've got a 1962 for model 2000. It has the 4 cylinder gas engine like my 641. The 2000 is very rough running and would like to know how to set timing on these. I know the timing marks are on the flywheel and visible from the witness hole on the bell housing near the hydraulic pump. What degree should I set the distributor at? Should I susan the distributor at 0 with the pointer at the number 1 spark plug location?
I just tried this on my 640 and made a video of it out of curiosity. I’ll edit it up real quick so you can see. I just had to know!! Thanks for another great video buddy 👍
Hahahaha. That’s funny !! I’m pretty sure you need to treat #4 as though it really IS #1 and bring it to TDC on compression and slip in the distributor accordingly. The other guy didn’t have the distributer out in his video. I didn’t dig too deep in thought about the mechanical positions of all the parts and pieces. I was so dang surprised when I sketched it out and saw all I had to do was change #1 on the cap 180* across and the wires were correct for numbering the cylinders from the front !! That’s why I said at the tail end of the video I was gonna hafta think a little more on this. LOL I can’t believe you took it a big step further and DID it. Can’t wait to see what you found out and what happened !!! Then I won’t have to do any more thinking !!! Thanks much for making my day.
@@tractorman4461 the video is uploading now…but I live in the sticks so it may not be up till tomorrow 😂
@@AmericanTradesmen hahaha. No problem. I’m am lmao right now. I am waiting ……LOL
@@tractorman4461 we’re at 31% uploaded….living in the woods is great till you get to do some high tech stuff lol
Hi Wendell! That’s interesting! So that guy is either brilliant or lucky. Thanks for sharing!
I am adding an addendum to this end of this video, so for the full story that's not left too confusing you may have to tune in and FF to where this one stops for now. I really think he was told wrong by the previous owner.....You might be surprised at the outcome Martin. Thanks for the visit today.
Very interesting!
Well, the fella I was talking about is not correct on his video. #1 is the FRONT of the engine. The only reason this works when wiring from the rear is he's got the distributor in 180* out.
So what your saying is that his distributor is 180 degrees out of rotation, and he compensated by “clocking his wires” to make it run correctly!
So what needs to be done is to bring the “number 1 cylinder” to top dead center” remove the distributor cap, and look where the rotor is positioned, then if 180 degrees out he would need to lift and reposition the distributor so the rotor would point to #1cylinder, replace the cap and correct the wires. His remedy was the old school quick fix for this issue, that he didn’t acknowledge or make clear to others watching his video!
Good eye on spotting this Wendell, did you eventually ask him to clarify his choices on how to run the spark plug wires or why he chose this method?
Nailed it !! LOL. Yessir. No doubt about it at all. If the fellow knew it was 180* out he didn't say and it was NOT pulled out or re-installed during his video. No, I didn't say anything and I didn't post a link to it either. But it's easy to find.
Yes, and see how your rotor turns, some go clockwise and some counter clockwise, find top dead center which is 5-10 on the flywheel,on mine is the front is #1 cylinder by the fan and go from there, next #2 next#4 next #3 and place wires in that sequence on the distributor cap..
I'm going home today and see if this is what's wrong with my Ford 850. I have it drawn out like you showed... I'm no mechanic but this explained it well.
I planned on doing a follow up video but never did, on how the fellow I observed is incorrect about number one cylinder Bing in the back of the engine. Number one cylinder is definitely the front of the engine up by the radiator. He has his distributor installed 180° out of time. Which because of the firing order makes the cylinder count correct from the back in advertently. Follow the normal procedure from the front of the engine do not pull your distributor out and change it just because it works out. That’s my suggestion anyway. Let me know what you find and what you do. Thank you.
@@tractorman4461 My distributor must be backwards as well. . It runs like a charm now. It was wired from the correct way (front to back) but when I wired it from back to front it fired right up.. Crazy right?? Thanks for posting this. Saved me fro taking it out and reinstalling it ,
@@kyeneal3243 That's crazy good news Kye. It is very easy to get the distributor in 180 out...unless you have a front mount little Ford or any of the flat head Continental's. Those all have an offset in the distributor drive that will not allow improper installation. On the regular overhead valve engines, you've GOT make sure #1 is TDC with intake and exhaust valves open to install the distributor correctly.
I guess you need to go get a 641 tractor now. BTW, the 134 engine first appeared on the Jubilee tractor, so just looking at a Jubilee will suffice.
Well I sure wouldn’t turn one down at the right price. And actually there is one fir sale two miles up the road. But someone needs to tell him it’s not made of gold. Lol
When # 1 cylinder is at TDC on compression stroke the dizzy should be pointing at the # 1 cylinder. Correct?
Yes, that is correct and #1 is the FRONT of the engine. The fellow whose video I watched actually installed his distributor 180* out of time, but wired the plugs as though the REAR of the engine was #1. Even though that's not correct, it runs fine because the sequence of fire still hits the correct cylinders in the proper order. It confused me too at first, but it works.
It looks like he would have had to install the distributor 180 degrees out to get it to work like that. What position is the #4 cylinder in when the motor harmonic balancer is timing mark is on what should be # 1 top dead center?😳
I didn’t spend a lot of time thinking about that part but I would almost guarantee they are not in alignment when he puts #4 at TDC on compression. When I saw the wiring was correct for front to back just by changing the numbering on the distributor 180* that was my first thought though. Dude Note: Matt from Matt an Andy American Tradesmen just commented that he went straight to his 640 and tried it. He’s recorded it and is going to upload soon. So Calvin thanks for watching and try to go to Matt and Andy for the follow up. THEY did it for me.
@@tractorman4461 thanks for the reply. Later 👍😀👉🇺🇸
He was correct. #1 cylinder is furthest from the radiator. What matters is where the rotor button is pointed when each cylinder is TDC. If you take the furthest cylinder from the radiator to TDC you will find the timing marks on the flywheel through inspection hole. If you take the closest cylinder to radiator to TDC and look through inspection hole you will not see timing marks because it's #4 cylinder.
I just figured he'd installed the distributor 180* out. It works out on paper. No matter, either way his is running fine and my 800 Ford is as well. It did twist my mind for a few minutes though. Thank you for the comment !!
What is the way to set fuel injector pump on old ford 3930
There are so many variations to the settings that I have to figure out each one every time. Some are simple and some are horrible like this Perkins in the Ford New Holland skid loader here: th-cam.com/video/YfG5lGaGu6E/w-d-xo.html Good luck with finding the information on yours. Its seems some dealers won't even talk about the equipment if its more than a few years old. My suggestion would be to buy a legitimate dealer service manual for that exact engine or the tractor IF you can find one.
PLEASE can anyone tell me what kind of oil you put in port on the side of distributor and how much . THANKS TO ANYONE HOW CAN TELL ME
I usually use the same oil that is used in the engine crankcase. A couple times a year because mine are not used as much as if they were still farming. and usually 10 to 15 drops at a time. I don't know if that is actually the correct way to do it or not but I've been doing it for 40 years.
@@tractorman4461 THANK YOU !!!
wow!
That was my own response when I watched the video. The gentleman insisted the rear of the engine was #1 though. Deeper though required !! LOL. Thanks Jeffrey for the exclamation.
Plain as mud to me!
What’s the best disclaimer he asks …. Don’t try this at home !! Hahaha. Thanks Gary for watching.
anything to tease the brain? lol
Well David I can tell you it twisted my brain thinking it out. But it sure doesn’t seem like it should work. Another subscriber just told me he went and did it on his own 640. He is uploading soon. Look up Matt and Andy American Tradesmen for the mechanical follow up.