Don't Use Screws That Are TOO LONG or TOO SHORT! (Screw Length/How To Choose The Right Screw Length)
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Don't Use Screws That Are TOO LONG or TOO SHORT! (Screw Length/How To Choose The Right Screw Length)
People often ask how much screw they should use for fastening boards together. Screw length can be a tricky thing to figure out. This short video from The Honest Carpenter will show you a few rules of thumb that can help out in almost any situation.
The screws in this video fall int the "Utility Screw" category, and are "deck screws" in particular. This is a very good, common screw to use for strength in household projects.
#8 is the most common deck screw gauge. But, thicker #9 screws are showing up more frequently on the market as well these days.
If you're connecting two boards through the cross-grain, then you ideally want 1 to 1-1/2" of screw thread in the BOTTOM BOARD.
However, if the bottom board is thinner, like 3/4", then too much screw will punch through the back. In this case, size down to a 1-1/4".
When in doubt, used more fasteners! But be sure to provide them a little spacing--at least 3/4" apart.
When connecting into end grain, you need more screw length, because end grain doesn't hold screws very well. You ideally want 2" of screw thread in the bottom board. So, for 2x4 stock, you want to use a 3-1/2" screw.
However, if your stock is thinner here, like 3/4", then 2" of screw in the bottom board has a higher probability of breaking the wood, or bulging it. You may want to size down to a 2" screw overall.
RULE OF THUMB: In this application, you want 1/3 of the screw in the top board, and about 2/3 in the bottom board.
Thanks for watching!
Be sure to visit us at The Honest Carpenter Website:
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Check out our other videos about wood / fasteners:
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• DON'T USE DRYWALL ANCH... - แนวปฏิบัติและการใช้ชีวิต
the author does like to from scratch, shaping and trimming wood from large blocks into fine finished products. th-cam.com/users/postUgkxD-QRFQz730FJEh4f9BYSf-nkIMIC9hL_ as another reviewer mentioned, most projects require a lot of high-dollar equipment that most of us dont have the room or budget for. But, knowing how to do these things, even if we wont be able to practice the full stack project, is still great.
Pre-drilling is often important to prevent splitting.
I asked a 3rd generation carpenter what tool would he recommend for DIYers he said ditch the old school battery drill and get a good lithium battery impact driver. I did and BOY DOES IT MAKE A WORLD OF DIFFERENCE! No more predrilling. The drill will drive EVERYTHING! What I do is go about half way in then back out and watch the wood shavings pour out then I just drive the screw in that way it doesn't split the wood. Works great as it serves the same purpose without having to predrill. It gets the shavings out so the wood isn't expanded too much. So it prevents splitting.
Also I find most old school guys just press the impact/drill button at full power all the time. What I do is start slow, to get it started, then full speed at mid length, then right at the last quarter I slow down to barely flush mount the screw heads. Oh and I only use T-25 star/Torc head screws the only thing that is better is square heads as both are harder to strip.
And alignment!
i know it's kinda randomly asking but do anyone know a good place to stream newly released movies online?
@@chaimterrance7621 from your sisters house
Chopping the sharp end off the screw / nail also works for reasons I don’t understand: th-cam.com/video/33IDFPknShw/w-d-xo.html
1:15 "just add more screws"
So I gather you have run into my diy projects before
If I ever try to slip any of my woodworking projects through an airport metal detector, I will be separated from the line for a "special inquiry". Hopefully I will not have to pay for the metal detector overheating...
Some of my projects have slipped into the realm of metal work, I’ll need to find a new channel 😀
😂😂 same
I like the one-thirds/two-thirds rule; it allows you to adapt your screw length to exactly the thickness of the materials you are working with.
Back in the day, wood screws were the only thing around. You would drill the diameter of the screw for the first board and then have a smaller pilot hole for the second board to cure withdrawal pressure. That still stands today for whatever screw is used today. If you think you are going to get pull out or withdrawal pressure, just drill the diameter of the screw for the first board. The head of screw will cinch up the 2 boards
I've seen screws that have steeper threads in the top third and normal threads in the bottom two thirds. They are meant to pull the board that's being attached tight against the wood it's being attached to. With that type of screw would it be better to leave the pilot hole the same narrower diameter in both pieces?
@@ethanheyne To me, that would be a "test it on a couple of scrap pieces first", preferably on the same type of wood that you are joining together, to see if getting pull out. Different types of woods or plywoods are more ornery than others..lol. If you can get away with just one pilot hole, great, that's less work. But drilling the diameter of the screw in the first board is a sure method. Nothing more frustrating than being in the air while trying to screw something to wall, ceiling, etc and it pulling out. Or if even doing with a glue up, and clamps and getting a gap from the boards not cinching together. My dad was a aerospace engineer, and he always said the the head of a screw/bolt has tremendous holding power. Of course, he wasn't driving brittle drywall screws with some of the more powerful drills we have today. LOL, LOL
I think that a lot of viewers would really appreciate it if the screw size-lenght-dimensions was in metric as well as imperial.
Keep up the good work!
this is an important topic for DIY where I don't know what screw size and length to use
Thanks Early Riser!
Or what thickness of board?
Minor correction:
Screws hold *better* when they are pre-drilled with a pilot hole.
(Removing material for the core allows the threads to cut in a uniform fashion, avoiding distortion. This increases, not decreases, holding strength.)
-Good video👌
Interesting. Thanks for this little detail.
@@KMSchriver You're welcome. Mamy torque specs assume fasteners are pre-drilled, and nuts are lubricated before fastening because they fasten tighter. That is not widely known, however.
As someone with a somewhat limited knowledge of woodworking and just getting into basic carpentry, your videos are a blessing to me. As a result, I'm taking on the challenge of replacing boards on my deck. Just wanted to say thanks and keep up the good work!
How did it go/is it going?
Awesome video. Very well explained. Really helped me out. Thank you!
Thanks Ethan. Didn’t realize end grain needed more length to stabilize the screw
I think it's stronger to also angle end grain screws where possible to cross the grain along its length
I've used this method in some situations as well, Steve. Sort of like a toenail.
@@SteveRogers461 End grain offers little bite on any fastener
End grain doesn’t hold screws as well as cross grain, but, glue will,help a lot.
I really need a video on thread widths!
I’m so grateful for all your videos.
Thanks Paula! I'll see what I can do. I'm moving to a new shop space, and I'll definitely do a lot more videos on screws in the future :)
The Honest Carpenter can give his opinion as mine is just one thought on it. In my experience thread widths can be a problem if they split the wood. Usually once you pick the max length screw you can use without the screw sticking through the other side or at least 1" to 1-1/2" deep in both pieces of wood, the screw's width should be good for that application. Usually predrilling will allow the wood to have a hole but enough wood still to allow the threads of the screw to hold. This also gets the wood shavings out so when you drive the screw it doesn't expand the wood too much and split it. What I do is use an impact driver compared to a regular drill. The impact driver "knocks" or impacts the spinning bit when it slows down due to resistance. You will hear it impact/knocking as you drive a screw into wood as it gets harder to drive. The advantage is the impact driver will DRIVE EVERYTHING no predrilling needed. So what I do is drive the screw (T-25 star/Torc head as they are very hard to strip) half way then back out to allow the wood shavings to come out. This allows the wood to not have to over expand and split. Then drive the screw flush mounted. Also most people just press the drive button on drills/impact drivers at full power all the time. What I do is start slow to get started then press to full power until about one quarter of the way then slow down at the end to make sure you flush mount the screw head instead of accidentally burying the screw head half way in the board. My 70yr old dad still does this even after I showed and explained that if the screw goes through the other end it can't hold the board.
Great information. Now I won't "screw up" another project.
🤣🤣🤣
Please include metric units of measurement as well. Great video!
Most of what he mentioned would be roughly 25-30mm into the anchoring piece, so most attachments would need a 50-65mm long screw.
Yes, so the video can make more sense to the "rest of the world" ;-)
I am American and I wish we would convert to the metric system here. Everyone else uses it, it makes sense (10 base instead of 12”, 3 feet, ick!), and what kind of asinine system of measurement is empiric? Based on the length of a king, ruler or emperors what? Who the hell thought that was a good idea? Oh yeah, the a-hole king, ruler or emperor. Jackwads.
I've had instances where I needed to screw boards flat, but had screws that were slightly too long (I didn't order them). In that case, I just angle the screw slightly, making sure the boards don't slide and the screw doesn't exit. Simple but effective, especially if you put the next screw in from the reverse angle. Of course, don't be afraid to pre-drill the holes, especially if it's fragile work such as trim.
Toe in is great and actually provides more strength, but the caveat is that it can be tricky to get the head of the screw flush w/ the board. Another alternative is (if you have the time) to cut the end of the screw that's sticking out so it's flush.
I've also learned that lining screws up along the grain can split wood in half... I learned that the hard way. Always offset.
True. That's exactly the technique used by stone cutters who *want* to split with feathers and wedges.
Hi Ethan. Just thinking of a few screw topics that you may want to discuss later. Two that come to mind are different drive options (#2 square / torx / phillips / etc??) and different coatings / materials (a lot of people use the wrong screw type - particularly in CCA treated timber). This video was fairly concise - that's good. A bit more depth in discussion around pilot holes such as when there may be advantage in drilling an over sized hole on the face piece to allow the stock to pull together without binding and when to counter sink may be worth while. Also scewing (angling) screws to improve holding power and fastening from each side where you have access.
I really love the square head screws. Phillips heads are so annoying, as you almost never can tell when they are going to slip on you. And if the screw is inferior metal, you've got little chance of driving it in all the way, unless you put a tonne of force on your driver. Obviously the stronger timber screws are usually ok, but I just loathe Phillips heads.
square head (Robertson) are the best screws to use.
In the UK Pozidrive are pretty standard, better than Phillips but not as goos as Torx (which I use) or Robertson. Robertson, probably the best of the lot, are almost completely unavailable in the UK except as decking screws occasionally.
@@Dyrck Shame can't get Robertson in the UK. I'm from Canada originally and that's mostly what we used.
@@glenpaul3606 There's a really interesting video about the history and why they didn't take off in the USA th-cam.com/video/R-mDqKtivuI/w-d-xo.html
An additional tip when drilling the pilot hole, use a bit that is roughly 1/3 to 1/2 the diameter of the threads. With lag screws or bolts go up to 3/4 of the diameter for the pilot hole to prevent splitinig.
I've also begun using a nail set to make a divot for the drill bit.
Sometimes the pilot needs to be the same caliber as the screw /lag . Some situations !! Like a deck ledger
@@dennisrayl3485 An awl works well too. I have a leather punch on my swiss army knife that does a similar job.
@@IVORY123100 I was thinkin' the same thing. The harder the wood, like he said, the closer in diameter to the actual screw.
There are lots of free charts available.
Pilot hole size are dependant on material, thread pitch, and fastener type.
I always learn something of value when watching your videos…thanks!
Great communicator and simplified instructions
I have watched a number of your videos and YES they are helpful. Appreciate how you keep on topic and offer bits of info that can be put to use right away. Thank You Honest Carpenter!!
I have always wondered what the formula was for screw length. Always just eyeballed it. But now I will keep the 1/3 × 2/3 proportion in mind. Thanks for this and a lot of other videos of yours I have recently watched. Keep it up!
I love how your vids are quick, detailed, easy to understand, and direct. Great stuff. I've watched four of your vids in a row. Thank you.
Thank you, Timmy! 😄
This is a great topic and you’re right about how many subjects can be covered regarding screws. I think what should be added in this conversation is what size hole to predrill.
Future suggested conversations...
Screw size needed for job
Course vs fine thread
Types of heads, (pan, flat, button, Phillips, Star etc.)
Exterior vs interior
Types of lag bolts
How tight to screw a lag bolt
Others have covered these topics, but you have a unique style that is short and to the point, yet adequate. You also carry enough energy and enthusiasm to keep people focused on your words.
Very helpful! I was looking for this exact video years ago when I was just getting started in the world of DIY. Thanks a million. I'll be sharing this with others.
You're welcome, BJ!
This explanation makes a lot of sense. I had been taught that, in general, the screw length should be twice the thickness of the wood that one is attaching. i.e. a 3" nail through a 2x4. But I found myself making adjustments.
I think you're right about breaking it down into smaller subjects. Thanks for the good info!
Pre drilling the attachment to the thickness of the screw shaft will enable the development of friction between the surfaces and increases “shear” strength.
Love your presentations and tips.
Just what I needed for today’s projects. You are awesome! 😎🥇
Love your clips. Right to the point and common sense. Thanks
Great tips all round. Cross grain lengtg wasn't something I'd considered properly so this will he'll going forward. Thanks.
You're such a good teacher.
You helped me as a novice laborer fit in on the jobsite quickly, and also as a homeowner and DIY-er. Thanks so much!
That’s awesome to hear, Cory! Thanks so much for watching, and writing in to let me know! 😄
Very helpful thank you. Looking forward to more videos on fasteners
Great video! I nearly always pre -drill. Not only stops splitting but also guides the screw straight so grain won't affect it. I use 4 mm or 3mm for 90% of pre drill holes. I buy these bits in 10s they last for years!
Thank you for the tips. I've been using self tapping drywall screws to predrill It works very well, especially in hardwood. Takes care of the dept, pins the work together quickly, and easy to change out when necessary.
Good info on selecting screws with the right length for the job. I've noticed a several woodworking videos skip that info and just tell you or give you the length to use for that specific project and call it good.
Thanks, this is a good video for getting the basics on what screw or what screw size and length to use. Good job.
Great vid! You answered a couple questions I had, (but forgot to find out,) doing past jobs. You also explained a couple things I hadn’t thought of. Thanks Ethan!
Glad to hear! Thanks for watching, Steven.
Love your work mate. Solid, essential tips and tricks. Great for DIY. Keep it up! Not sure if you've done something on using string lines and levels. If not, that would be excellent. Thanks.
For lateral pressure (like weight hanging from a fastener on a wall), you can improve performance by adding a vertical metal strip like a TV wall mounting bracket. Once the fastener grips the stud, the friction between the mounting bracket bracket and the dry wall also comes into play to support the hanging weight!
This channel is awesome!
Super helpful; thank you! I appreciate the basics. I'm trying to learn more about handyman things so I can take care of my house myself, and these basic things really help. Maybe a brief overview of which types of screws/materials this would apply to would be useful at the beginning if you make more tips/tricks videos.
YOU ARE THE MAN!!!!!! Thank you for your channel!
Great tips. I might suggest adding that you want to avoid driving screws in the same grain too close to each other. This often leads to the screws acting like wedges and the wood splitting along the grain. This can be avoided by observing the grain and altering screw positions accordingly.
That was a concise, informative video. Really well done. Thank you for the knowledge.
I knew that some sort of length would be needed with fastening objects together. This video gave me excellent clarity and understanding. Thank You
You're welcome, William!
Just what I was looking for. Thank you!
Every video you do is helpful!
Very helpful, great vid, keep em coming!!
while installing water heater straps in a customers garage, i screwed through a 220 wiring that fed the kitchen oven opposite that wall. when i was holding one of the straps and touched the water heater, things became very exciting.
💥🤣
Scary, Norm! I've always said, if you're going to mess up like that, cross your fingers and hope for 110 😅
Details Norm? Speak!
@@kooale putting a 3/8 lag bolt into a stud to secure the water heater straps. i had not been the house, so was unaware of the location of the kitchen. when i began to wrap the strap around the heater, i got zapped. most likely i nicked the wiring with the lag bolt, so i got a shock instead of electrocuted. i removed the bolt and moved it about 2 inches higher. no issues after that.
I remember when our contractor was drilling through our floor in the kitchen to run a gas line to our new stove. The existing stove was electric and we wanted gas. I asked him how he knew he wasn't going to run into any wiring or plumbing, and he brushed me off. Well, about 5 seconds later things got quite exciting when he hit the 220 for the range. I heard a loud bang and saw a massive flash.
Fortunately he was OK.
I am watching this great channel from Europe - not UK - and learning a lot. Even though I am ok with the imperial units I would suggest to add also some description in metric units for English speaking audience from "metric part of the globe:) thanks a lot for your awesome work 👍
Wood screws here (nz (went metric in 1975 I think)) are still imperial in length.
THANK YOU! Picture at 1:52 is exactly what i was looking for. Dont know why it was so hard to find this information. Many thanks!
Glad to hear, Garrett!
This is good info. I had never heard the 1/3-2/3 idea, but that makes good sense.
Good tip 1/3 to 2/3 easy to remember
Informative video. A type of screw I've recently found useful in the correct circumstances are GRK finish/trim screws These work great for thinner dimensions of wood, especially if it's going to be reinforced with glue. No need for pilot holes and they countersink themselves.
this was incredibly helpful! thanks!
Have you ever used Robertson head screws?
Great Canadian invention.
Robertson is only here? I was wondering why his deck screw were Phillips. Nasty
@@scottroy6195 They're most common in Canada because of Robertson. They exist elsewhere, but are usually harder to find and are usually known as "square drive" (the non-trademarked generic name, since they're not made by Robertson)
@@jonathanvernon7251 Thanks for the info mate. Oh the world has to catch up they are so much better than Phillips. I hate Phillips.
@@scottroy6195 never use phillips on anything but drywall. The screws he shows here we always get in torx or star drive. The bits by makita hold up better and dont cam out on star drive. Phillips head is basically obsolete here for any screw requiring strength
Robertson are simply square head screws and are the best screws to use especially with powered tools.
I used the same ones you featured before I tried the torx screws which is all I use now. Good topic.
Love em. So much needless suffering trying to drive long phillips screws.
I so wish the whole industry would just switch over once and for all. Larger production runs would bring down the cost, and the bit is almost always included, so adoption is really very easy, whether for DIY or professional applications.
They are the best.
Thanks for this video! It was very helpful!
Very helpful! Thank you sir!
Another useful and informative video Ethan. Thanks for the great content you keep making.
Thanks for watching, Josh!
Appreciate these videos. Super helpful!
Thank you for making these informative videos.
THANK YOU! As always, educating the newly DYIers
This was helpful. Lots of good information.
Great Vid with GREAT points! Saying hi from The Ole Church 5 Acre Homestead 🧑🌾‼️👩🌾
Excellent video! Basic knowledge, prevents the most common mistakes. I would also like to see one about coastal regions and securing pressure-treated wood for longest life.
There are lots of free drill charts available.
Pilot hole size are dependant on material, thread pitch, and fastener type.
I have a chart on my phone, including tap drills. Makes it easy.
Love this info! I am a crazy DIYer and never really thought that much about screw size and length to compensate for sheer or direction on grain, etc. Thank you!
Thanks for watching, Becky! 😄
This was very helpful. Thanks for sharing this.
Thanks for watching, John :)
Interesting video for me. Good learning all about this stuff.
Thank you for all the great info I really have learned a lot from you
Very helpful.
Thank you.
Thanks Ethan, more great information.
Great tips and valuable info. Thank you.
Thanks, this was super timely and helpful.
You must be a dad; you are just too good at explaining things to absolutely beginners!
I was actually just thinking about this the other day. Thanks for reading my thoughts!
Great video...I find that in every case possible I drill pilot holes...even in something soft like pine I find the a pilot hole allows the screw to bore in without cleaving the wood. Of course in soft wood I drill a smaller hole than in hardwoods.
You guys REALLY need to accept Robertson screws...I ache watching you having to deal with Phillips :)
Great point made. Thanks.
Thank you, this is good information.
The most common critique I hear from TV builders is “don’t use drywall screws for everything, they are too brittle” and as I work on my own home I find the previous owner used drywall screws for everything from mounting a light fixture in the bathroom to hanging wire shelves in the closet. Problem is, I don’t know what’s right.
So, deck screws for everything not attaching drywall to a wall stud? I also like screws with something other than the Phillips drive, it strips out too easily.
Thanks for the information it was nice to be reminded of the basics.
You're very welcome!
Thank you for this very useful information.
good information answered alot of questions
Thanks for the topical video. Cheers 👍😎🇦🇺
Very helpful.
Very informative, always good info
Thank you, Samuel!
Agree, this suggestions are very useful
Hi Ethan. I continue to enjoy your great material and awesome delivery. It just makes everything clear and easy. Watching down here in Australia it would be really helpful if you could somehow convert feet, inches and fractions of inches into their metric equivalents. Maybe as a small text box on the screen as you talk...? Anyway, keep up the great work!
@@mikejones-vd3fg Actually, he’s asking about conversion from imperial to metric, not from fractions of imperial units to their equivalent percentages, so the smug response is denotes a lack of reading comprehension, not to mention plain meanness. Try reading a bit more carefully next time, and if in doubt, can it.
I'm going to be building some shelves with "H" frames for the uprights. I was wondering just how far to screw into the cross pieces and this video has the answer! Two thumbs up. Thanks.
Good info - thanks for another useful video!
Was definitely helpful!
I love your channel bro!
Super helpful, thanks so much!
Before I started getting serious with woodworking, I, like many, used drywall screws almost all the time - While cheap and convenient, they are not string and have little shear strength do to their thinness. Heads often break off when using harder or thicker woods and if you have to remove them later.
As always I picked up some useful information.
I saw on another TH-cam video about lubricating screws. I've begun wiping screws with a rag damp with WD-40 and let me tell you, it's wonderful. Less pressure, especially on smaller pieces, results in fewer breaks in the wood.
A lot of woodworkers use beeswax.
@@jobacuda4472 Even common bar soap or liquid soap works also. 😊
@@dancahill9122 soap may be alkaline so it is not good for metal. But it is not something you have to worry about for some time. Although I have seen its effects in older projects I've done. So it is not like it is something you never have to worry about. Now I use paraffin wax which has more uses in the workshop anyways. Although wax is less common. A box of wax will last you a long time.
A good topic to marry to this one is gluing. A good wood glue along with proper screwing makes a very strong joint.
Thanks. I'm a DIYfer. Other than the obvious not enough screw penetration, I've always wondered.
My 2 cents, I find that Phillips head screws frequently cam out especially in reverse with an impact gun, I’d suggest star drive or torque drive screws. Square drive is another alternative. Also for different thickness of woods the screw diameter (6 8 9-10) can be very important especially if your using wood that splits easily or is close to an edge. As you point out when shear or hanging strength is needed also is a factor of screw diameter. Pre drilling counter sunk holes & not over driving & use the torque limiting setting on your impact gun is critical to avoid splitting and insure the best connection. For us DYI’s screws (vs nails) allow us to correct our mistakes so much easier than nails due to ease of removal.
Have also come to appreciate star drive over Phillips.
Phillips head screws are literally designed to cam out. It was an intentional feature to keep from over tightening. Try JIS, or Japanese Industrial Standard, screwdrivers and bits. They bite much better.
Great topic and great explanation!
Thank you Kyle!