Mini Lathe taper bearings installation
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 13 ธ.ค. 2024
- This video will show you how to install inexpensive taper bearings on your Seig Mini Lathe and profoundly increase the precision of your cuts. I picked up these bearings for $14 a pair. This install will work on any of these lathes:
HiTorque SIEG Central Machinery Grizzly Central Machinery MicroLux
Refreshments were provided by Dave M. from
TheMiniMachineShop.com, Check out his channel
/ @theminimachineshop
High precision cuts with taper bearings from T2H Instructionals,
here is the why you wanna do this upgrade! and check out his channel.
• Video
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I like your style. Straight to the point without redundant and extraneous monologs.
WHO !! ARE !? THOSE !! PEOPLE !! ON !! YOU !! TUBE !! THAT !! DO !! THIS !!??
The inner races of the taper bearings should slide on the spindle journals to enable the correct pre load to be set....I polished the journals on my mini lathe, a Sieg C3 Super.....but the change is worth the effort..
If your lathe has not speed selector, it is relatively easy to add a oil pan between the two rollers. It will leak a bit especially in the front but small flange with a felt gasket will do wonders even if you have to fit it afterwards.
Thanks for putting the bearing size. Future project.
Ok, I am shocked.... just downright shocked. If you have not done this mod to the spindle, do it now!!! I have less than a 10th of runout on the outer edge of the spindle to the center of the spindle. I have less than a 10th of runout axially on the face of the spindle. This is a 15 year old HF 7x10 mini-lathe on a 7x14 bed. Believe me, this thing was NEVER this accurate, ever!!! It's quiet and just an amazing upgrade. I sprang for the metal high low gears from LMS which fit perfectly. The spindle rebuild is a cinch with a press. Thanks for the great video Don!!!!
Thanks for your comments.. I posted this because i have not found a clear example of how to do this modification. -Cheers
Tapered roller bearings for lathes are the same as what is on the front wheels of your car. Look up "hand packing wheel bearings" for the proper way to fully pack those bearings with grease. The service that a lathe sees is nothing compared to your front wheel bearings on a car, and they are almost never re-packed. They should be pre-loaded the same as the cars' are. Never squeeze the spindle head between a vice's hard jaws; it's a precision component for the chuck to register on.
newbie here. nice upgrade.. have a Chinesium 7x23" and the bearings are out to .005" at 6" (est.) after cutting steel for a few weeks. It came with a 1.2Kwatt DC motor that I'm re cutting the first pulleys for a lower speed and larger belt. The tool holder mount angle adjustment would not hold so I milled out the cast iron and installed a couple of wedges and a couple of hex key bolts per side. Chatter was killing my cutter faces although I found that Chinesium carbide can be ground to an edge by hand, sometimes.. time to upgrade the grinder....
A word of advice for next time you grease bearings like these. You need to work the grease in. Put a gob in the palm of your hand and roll the bearing over the grease until it's worked in thoroughly.
Looks good. An important thing that wasn't mentioned is preloading the tapered roller bearings. When tightening the nut down for the final time you want to tighten it until there is a tiny amount of tension on the bearings known as preload. Not much but you definitely don't want any play and tapered rollers like a little preload.
THE !! PROBLEM !! IS !! TOO !! MANY !! IDIOTS !! DO !! SOMETHING !!! ELSE !! TO !! IT !!
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Nice video. However I'd seriously advise against clamping the chuck flange as shown at 6:12. Any damage/upsetting of the flange surface and the chuck no longer runs true. Same at 3:20, if the shaft falls through and hits something hard then the damage is done.
good video, gears trace out on some brass plate cut out file them and no more breaking the plastic ones.
Modding your lathe is your choice and that is what positively sets you apart from the rest. Kudos!
You need to check out a video on how to pack a bearing. That grease job you did is common with folks that don't know better. You can do it by hand or get a tool that will do it. but it really makes a difference in how long your bearing lasts, especially on vehicles.
I noted no grease or oil being placed on screws and spindles. I live in central Florida. Very high humidity. Everything rusts immediately if not sooner. I have been using a product called Blaster corrosion stop. This works exceptionally well on marine battery terminals and will give several years of protection in a salt air environment. Try it the next time you assemble something. It is not available in many retail stores but can be found online. It is sold by the same company which sells Blaster penetrant.
My lathe has a broken low-speed gear, so I will try to replace it by watching this. It was very helpful.
THAT !! WHAT !! HAPPENS !! WHEN !! IDIOTS !! CHANGE !! SPEEDS !! WITH !! IT !! RUNNING !!
better than any videos !!! very well explained and many useful tips. you should've test the deflection of the spindle with a dial test indicator by mounting a bar in the 3 jaw chuck, before replacing the bearings and after
That plastic sleeve on the rear of the spindle is likely not a good, solid element when setting the critical preload required on Tapered and Angular contact bearings since it is not hard enough and thermally unstable. Best could be hoped for is to crush it slightly and hope it doesnt deform under heavy loads and heat differentials. could make a solid one out of a more hard, stable material...brass or steel.
Great video on the up grade little lite on the grease though, it can be an easily fixed with a grease zert needle. Thanks for sharing
Don't need to "Go ahead", all the time. Unnecessary english. You installed the bearing. I liked the video. Thanks :)
For the basic tools you used, you did a nice job! thanks for sharing!
BASHING !! AWAY !! THE !! SPINDLE !! END !! ?? WRECKED !! NOW !!
Good video Don....just wondering if there was a torque nut requirement to set the bearings to the races... or tighten snug then back off 1/4 turn ....or did I miss this in the video?
Nice video. Good job.
Did we forget the spindle key for the output gear? (Page 11:06)
Hey Don
The bored out area for the bearing races is deeper than the width of the races. I noticed you stopped installing when the race was even with the outer edge of the bore. I just did this mod to my lathe and the races went in approx. 3/16 past outer edge of bore. Try to use a hollow tool just under the diameter of the race for installing. Or a smaller bass punch evenly worked around race will work. The races should be installed so the inner edge of the race is seated on the inner lip of the bearing bore in the head stock, other wise the bearings can still move together loosening you bearings. You can look from bottom and see when they are seated.
Good video Don Very easy to understand
Thanks for the comment. I hadn't realized the old race was recessed when I disassembled the headstock. Did you happen to take any pics or video while doing your mod? I'd like to link to it here for the viewers. It would be great to see another way to do this mod! -cheers
Sorry no pics. I was following your vid for ideas
A little tip ,when tapping in the bearing shell ,it is hard to see if it is fully seated, , listen when the shell is nearly seated when it contacts the bottom of the bore you will hear the different sound it makes when struck, much sharper with a distinct ring to it Great video !!
I've been looking at doing this to my lathe. Just thought of a better way to lubricate the bearings. One could jb weld a bottom oil pan in place so you can fill the headstock with oil and have splash lubrication! Then make a tray at the top to catch some of the oil and run it down to the bearings. I don't like the idea of having to take apart the headstock to lube the bearings. Plus grease won't stay in them for very long at all without seals on both sides
Install two oil cups or ball oilers on the top of the headstoch, right above the two gear surfaces on the big gear. Excess oil will drain out the bottom between the two machined ways (it's lower). Seal the back of the headstock and the rear bolts with RTV when assembling to channel it to the front face of the headstock.
My HF mini lathe is 11 years old and I use it nearly every day. I have not changed a thing and it works like the day I unboxed it although a bit more noisy
IF ITS NOISY CHANGE THE BEARINGS
That pipe fitting reducer is mangled now. Swift move... Indeed!
...but the rest was great man. Thanks for the video. 👍
I enjoyed your video. Very informative and very well narrated.
Noticed you had 4 mounting holes on your head stock and ways. Did you drill the fourth hole. I know these laths at least the Chinese versions only come with 3 mounting holes/ bolts for the head stock. I recently purchased the 16 inch lath bed for the mini lathe and it also only came with only 3 mounting holes. Can't figure why there are only 3 mounting holes a fourth hole does not interfere with any function of the lathe or head stock but it would add more stability. Thanks.
Very helpful and well thought out. I have the 7x16 micromark lathe and just ordered the LMS High torque mini mill to go with it. I plan to upgrade both machines soon with DRO's and this bearing modification tot he lathe. Very happy to have found your channel. You got yourself a new sub.
Hey, really appreciate your comments! Thank you very much . I'll check out your channel and have subscribed. -cheers brother
I definitely want to make this upgrade but I have a harbor freight 7x10” lathe and am wondering what the chances are that the same size bearing you used would fit my small lathe? You know of anyone who’s done this upgrade on a harbor freight lathe? I’m kind of a new hobby machinist and noticed that the cut quality kinda sucks on my lathe. (I know it’s about the cheapest lathe you can buy tho so I guess I can’t expect too much from it.)
Hi Don,excellent video ! I have a Harbor Freight 7 x12 mini lathe. I just purchased the taper bearings and have a question. Did you have to machine the rear spacer at all due to the larger races ? I was reading on another web page that it would have to be machined 0.10 or so ? .. Any specific bearing preload when you installed the taper bearings ? Thanks :-)
This is exactly the video I’ve been looking for!!! Thanks for posting.
Nice to show headstock lathe
You used a wood block to tap in the outer races but you only tapped them in until flush with the casting. On my mini lathe the recess for the outer race is deeper than the taper roller outer race thickness and the outer goes into the casting to maybe 0.05" beyond the edge of the recess. So maybe when you pulled the second inner race into place using the ring nuts, without knowing it, you also pulled the outers into their correct place as well. Either that or your outer races are not properly located because they do not come against the shoulder in the casting. In addition, if the outers have not pulled into the correct place, since you did not fit a spacer to make up the difference in thickness between the original bearings and the new ones, the spindle gear will be able to float something like 0.1" either side of its original position, meaning just about half the proper engagement with the layshaft gear. Of course as others have said, your grease packing of the bearings was not good enough.
Did you ever video the results after the bearings were replaced? Mine without any pressure on the chuck looks great on the dial indicator, but when I apply pressure to the tooling you can see the chatter.
quick question. Where did you buy the small brass washer that was installed with the bearing? Not clear to me why it is needed. thanks
This was educational 👍🏼👍🏼👍🏼👍🏼👍🏼👍🏼👍🏼👍🏼. Thanks, master yoda
Don around 13:25 I can see the top spacer.
I know it has been a while but do you remember if the spacer fit on the key-way?
It looks like it isn't and i'm in the process of doing mine and it doesn't go on my key-way.
Thanks
Mike
Don have you had a chance to look at the Question?
Thanks
Thanks for taking the time to upload this video, Don, much appreciated.
I note your cat seems to be about as useful as any I've ever had, too lol
Regards
Doc from Australia
Thank You Don. How do you set the preload?
You get it to a point where it binds and then back off 1/4 of a turn.
Not idea, but for a DIY its pretty good.
Ideally you'd run them for a while and then tighten, but.....time consuming.
hey awesome! wonder if they sell this bearings for the grisly bigger minilathe Got and old lathe at the shop but the chuck is off and Im sure it has to do with the bearing.
Very helpful !! Thanks
Hello Don! Thank you for your reply. It solves many problems, but one remains. Did you mount the rubber o-ring that he wrote in the micworkshop (38 x 4 mm.). Do I need it at all? It's sits extremely tight.
Writes an Inquiry Rune
Thanks so much for this video. I am curious. Didn't you have to remove about 10 thou off of the plastic spacer? That is what I hear people are having to do because the thickness of the tapered bearings are a little wider than the original.
Thanks for the question. I don't recall cutting the plastic spacer. it does make sense. There are many of these 7xX lathes and there all a bit different. Good luck.
Something I don't get, DRO seems more important than appropriate tools, strange.....
By upgrading to inexpensive tapered bearings, you said the spindle runout was greatly improved.
For ~$20 USD, the manufacturer could have (?) installed tapered bearings and made a higher quality, more precise product.
But they chose a cheaper approach.
Can you help me understand that?
Thanks.
Roy
1946 Logan 825, 10” Lathe
Ser. No. 34503
Sealed deep groove radial bearings don't require lubrication ever, in theory. These tapered roller bearings will require occasional topping off of grease. This is a bad tradeoff in the mfg or the distributor's eyes apparently.
Also, the Amazon bearings at $7 each probably aren't worth the savings because they're garbage and will brinell and fail in a few hours of use. You want to buy at least the $25/pc McMaster or LittleMachineshop bearings that come from from a reputable brand...
To remove the two nuts compressed together on the main-shaft, you used wrenches because you did not have the correct tools. I'm curious what the correct tool name would have been to use for those nuts. Thanks.
C spanner
Adjustable Pin Spanner
Why you didn't use an angular ball bearing?
Since you fitted tapered bearings did allow for preload?
Like your vids Don especially your tailstock upgrade, all knowledge and substance.
Any suggestions on how adjust for a high tailstock? Mine a chinese 7-16 bench lathe is high by 1mm but my left to right alignment is spot on. Not looking forward to grinding.
When l did mine had to reduce length of rear spacer by 2mm to get gears to lineup. Why not fit metal gears at the same time Good video thanks Roger
I know a lot of people do upgrade to metal gears, and this would've been the perfect time to do that; it regrettably was not in my budget. As a side note, I have only broken one gear in my lathe and it was the large pulley for the motor drive when I locked up the lathe at high-speed and it slammed. I learned a lot from that break. Thank you for the question and comment. -cheers
I was not able to see what you used to maintain and replace the lubrication. It looks as if grease could fall out or dry up. LjN
I love the 'If you have the right tools' bit, you should ALWAYS use the right tools, if you don't want to remove your knuckles, or at least reassemble it without damage for next time.
2000W brushless RC motor? WOW. That has probably some crazy torque to strip the belt :D
Or can be run very conservatively at 750W or so, still providing twice the shaft power of the original 550W brushed DC motor while being able to run forever without overheating concerns.
Great video, but one question . i saw where you greased the bearing at install but how do you keep it greased ?
Has THE!! WORD !! MATAINNANCE ! EVER ! ENTERED !! YOUR !! PEANUT !! BRAIN !!??
Loving the brushless upgrade. Hopefully I can find that video and what kind of mini lathe that is. How's all the upgrades working out price wise? Do you wish you had rather bought a higher end mini lathe?
I'm doing the same project and it's a bit more tricky than it appears without all the proper tools. People work with what they have, you found a way to get the project done and didn't break anything so it's all a success. The next one will be better having learned from the experience.
A suggestion no one has mentioned - instead of grease on the gears, put in a couple of oil cups or ball oilers on the top of the headstock and the gears can be easily lubricated for life. The excess oil will run out of the bottom of the headstock but you can seal the back of the headstock and bolts with RTV and channel it to the front face, there's going to be oil down there anyways.
good video. There's surpisingly few good videos on taking apart the headstock on these chinese mini lathes
much appreciated
If you have a patreon or a paypal or whatever let me know and I'll throw you a couple of bucks. this was miles better than the non-explanation I got from the reseller I got my mini lathe from
Your comment is why i made the video. There are not many good videos IMO as well. I appreciate the offer of cash.. WOW !!! That how you know your doing something right. :-) What you could do for me, is tell any friends about my channel, if you are on social media...Send a link to some of my videos and add a personal comment. Have a great day!
There didn't appear to be any seal near the bearing behind the chuck. How will you keep dirt from getting into the tapered bearing? Nice video work.
Hello Hugh, That's my first name also BTW, the original or aftermarket bearing don't have a perfect seal. there is a plastic cover however. -Cheers
should install seals , here a seal size chart and part number for seals , also bearing preload on that size taper bearing is 10 to 15 inch pound new bearings , 6 to 9 on used bearings ,
Finally ordered bearings from Amazon... not sure if I will install them but $20 for 2 sets was reasonable!
Great to hear Dave, I hope you are going to make a video about installation. Hope you are doing well -Cheers
All goes well! Not sure if I will be installing them yet. Just wanted them on hand while the price was right. Been looking at another HF on craigs so might do that one if I get it.
Great tutorial - this is on the "to-do" list for my LMS 3536 lathe. Just curious - why roller bearings vs angular contact... price?
I didn't think about it.. Im guessing i thought were the same.
DID YOU PUT A GAGE ON THE BACK PLATE AND CHECK THE RUN OUT?
Bravo,Super
Hi, I did this mod using Nachi bearings. however when I rotate the spindle by hand after a few turns it tend to bind at a spot. So I go back and forth a couple of times onthat spot and the bind goes away, and then reappears at another spot. and the process goes on. Its not a smooth free travel. What did I do wrong.
And What's the deal with the brass washer. Didn't see any explanation about it on the video. Or did I miss it?
Curious... I don't know, but I'll offer a few hints that may help you identify the problem. One is, loosen the spindle nut so there's some slack and then push the chuck head in and out to see if you can identify if the problem is with one of the bearings or the other. I would almost think that one of the bearings wasn't seated properly; however, the stiff point changes location. I would also think possibly, that there is some contamination in the bearing, think metal shavings. If the push-pull method doesn't work, consider thoroughly cleaning and inspecting the bearings. Let us know how it works out. -don
Hi Don, Thanks for the input. In fact I had gone thru the process of washing and cleaning the bearings and refitting them bedore my original commrnt. I did try your suggestion of loosening the tail nut, gave it a few light taps and that seemed to resolve the problem. And then I tightened the tail nut ever so slowly to eliminate the lateral movement of the spindle. Now it looks good. But I do need to repack the bearings properly as the last time I did it I greased them lightly. So now I have to figure out a way to remove the chuck end bearing without damaging it ..... any suggestions?
Czech brand ZKL makes it for 3€ piece. So no big deal to find that one cheap enough. SKF might be much expensive.
Thanks for the advice for our non-USA friends! -don
Your´e welcome.
I just installed these bearings but it seems the two spacers inside the headstock should now be thicker due to the inner race of the taper bearings not protruding as much as the previous bearings?? I thought the only spacer needing modification was the rear longer spacer.
Yes, it requires two spacers. i linked to the plans i used in the description. Cheers
What are the plans? I don't see them in the description. Thankss
I can’t thank you enough for this video.
Does it run any truer? Mine has about .002-.003” runout
Where do you get the small brass washer how stay permanent that should be just after inner ring. Is it with the store or have I to buy it separately. How thick should it be (if I have to make it sell) Thank you for your video, would never dare these modifications without your video.
Hello Rune, thanks for your great comments.!! here are the instructions i followed to make the video. Yes, you have to make the parts yourself.. Have a great day!! mikesworkshop.weebly.com/headstock-upgrade.html
I noticed you put no grease on the gears and shaft inside the HS housing. Do you not think it needs some lube?
on plastic gears....Im not to sure... what are your thoughts?
How long did those dry bearings run . No grease, oil or seals .
Nice, Helpufull and interesting video!!! Make a video on the cutting performance with the changed bearings!
WHY !! DO !! THAT !!!??? THE !! SPINDLE !! BEARINGS !! WOULD !! HAVE !! TO !! BE !! REPLACED !! AGAIN !!!
Most useful. Thanks.
The mix is really weak, I use 1 packet to 1.33 quart. Try you can always dilute!
Will this mod work on the mini mill? Are the bearings the same size?
Hi Steve, there are many models of mills. Im sorry that i dont know the specifications. Some of the mini-mills use the same head stock as the lathes, so its possible. Disassemble and measure or find the specs online. Good luck on your project!
i think i would of put some grease in that case to it would of made me feel better then she will never hit any dry spots ever just a thought
I enjoyed the video, particularly because I am doing the mod now. I do have a question, did you notice after the mod that your High/Low switch was backward? (low is now high and vice versa?). Just curious.
Hello John. Did not notice that... I'm thinking the HI-LOW gears may have been installed backwards. Cant say much about long-term with that. Glad you enjoyed the video. -Cheers Buddy!
very nice, a good interesting video
hello dude, where did you buy it? do you hv the link?
Your link to "why you want to do this" isn't working. Thanks for the video. Getting a mini lathe soon and will be doing all precision mods I possibly can.
as the spindle heats up, the bearings will loosen.
GUARANTEED !! STUFF !! UP !! WHEN !! IT !! DOES !! THAT !!
how are you running the outrunner motor>?? is there a controller i missed?
I have a whole series of these video, Subscribe and here is a link to a relevant video. th-cam.com/video/BgkI-Mev2c8/w-d-xo.html
Hello, You do not mention the name of your mini lathe, could you please give the name because I am planning to buyone and would like to put all chances in my favor. Thank you very much.
One think is not clear to me and I may not be the only one; the outside sleeve of the roller bearing you installed are not secured from moving further inside by the vibration or even by the cutting tool and the most radial cuts could cause that to happened. You did not secured the sleeves or outside rings of the bearings.
For the price, I have to wonder why they don't just install tapered roller bearings at manufacture and raise the price accordingly.
For the sort of use this category of lathe of lathe was designed for (i.e materials and work size), the standard bearings it comes with are more than sufficient. A lot of people use machines of these sort well outside the limits of what they were designed for. It is in this situation that modifications are needed. Tapered roller bearings are more pre-load sensitive than angular contact bearings, so have far more potential for being wrongly set up or maintained by less technically astute users leading to either poor performance or premature wear.
nirmal Thank you for your reply. I had asked the same question about a year ago and missed you previous reply. Well said.
RL
Варвар.
Нельзя издеваться над новыми подшипниками.
Для установки используют разность температур, 100С - достаточно для свободного хода. Просто нагреть внутреннее кольцо до 130С, и оно без усилий займёт своё положение на валу шпинделя. Охладить в морозилке внешнее кольцо (переднего и заднего подшипника), и оно свободно для установки в переднюю бабку. Нагреть до 50С вал шпинделя, установить на место и поджать задней бабкой, нагреть до 150С задний внутренний подшипник и быстро установить на место.
После охлаждения вся система будет иметь нормальное усилие натяжения, без перекосов.
Translating to English: You can not mock the new bearings. For the installation use a temperature difference, 100C - enough for free running. Just heat the inner ring to 130C, and it will effortlessly take its position on the shaft of the spindle. Cool the outer ring (front and rear bearing) in the freezer and it is free for installation in the front headstock. Heat the spindle shaft to 50 ° C, re-install and press the tailstock, heat the rear inner bearing to 150 ° C and quickly replace it. After cooling, the entire system will have a normal tension force, without distortion.
Found your channel, very cool. New sub here.
Hmmm. No measurements before and after...
brushless lathe.... fancyyyyy
You didn't pack those bearings properly.
You are totally right on that! th-cam.com/video/BhL1uAp_WCw/w-d-xo.html
yes put a lump of grease in your palm then keep working the open ends of the bearing against your palm full of grease till it comes out the other side bro then they will be packed good
@@DonBrandt the guy in the video over filled the bearing while he warned against over filling
about half the grease he put in would suffice
First time I have seen any of your videos. But I would guess you’re an electrician? I see the blocky Klein channel locks and what looks like unistrut couplers
Bearing od calculation formal
found this article, seems it's better to grease
m.machinedesign.com/mechanical-drives/engineering-essentials-lubrication-tips-plastic-gears-and-more-part-2
My 7x12 is stripped down at the moment and I also noticed it was bone dry inside the casing, was wondering if I should grease or not.
Great information..Thanks for sharing. I did not consider this.. I have another project that has plastic gears with lubrication from the factory... keep your eyes out. -cheers
No outside ring fixer? What? Or there is an edge inside the block? Taper bearings need a force backward, otherwise, they will loose son the tension.
I did make a spacer however, I did not detail it in the video. Sorry about that! Good looking out.
Don Brandt Now I can sleep well :)
Any pictures or information on that spacer? I just picked up a 7x10 today (lightly used and the tooling was worth more than what I paid for the entire package), and it's nice, but I want to make it better. These bearings seem just the ticket for a major fix.
Check out this link for more details
mikesworkshop.weebly.com/headstock-upgrade.html
Folks didn't like your style of greasing the bearings. While it could have been done better, they're probably ok. What I didn't like is how careless you were around that spindle register. I hope you gave it a light skim, once you had the lathe put together. Still, all in all, a very useful mod. You must change that plastic spacer with an aluminium one. You can never get the preload quite right with plastic.
Is there a machined stop on the shaft to set were the bearing should seat on the chuck flange end? I am confused as it looked like you removed the small shaft out of the housing opposite of the chuck flange end but when you assembled it back in you put it in from the chuck flange end. No explanation of how things got reversed? I want to try this but several areas are not clear.
Никогда, никогда так не делай те, как сделал этот перец на 6:19 - надАвите на фланце шпинделя шишки и будете удивляться потом, откуда такие биения на патроне?!
ممتاز
not every person is as skilled, do you offer your services?