Better LATHE Than Never!
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 25 ธ.ค. 2018
- Simple spindle bearing upgrade: small fixes to the mini-lathe can go a long way.
The part numbers are in the video. I'd recommend sealed angular contact bearings.
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Music: Gaiety in the Golden Age - Aaron Kenny - วิทยาศาสตร์และเทคโนโลยี
10:50 When unsure of bearing preload, take AvE's advice.
*Tighten until you hear it crack, then back it off half a turn*
I've always used that rule!
Sounds a lot like the torque values on my aircraft engines, tighten to about 15ft/lbs* before it breaks.
*measure torque with oiled threads
"Back it off a Karter turn"
I'm not a machinist or anything close to an engineer but this channel of yours is my favorite (for perspective, I am a high school English teacher). I love your banter and witty commentary. It reminds me of working as a kid at my dad's welding shop. Keep it up! I can't get enough.
> your's
> I am a high school English teacher
Pick one! :D
Man you said it just right. He is simply amazing to watch. I'm a fabricator in a manufacturing plant. Well a team leader now but he is by far my fanvorite.
100% agree. I'm far from a machinist, I'm just some nerd that does graphic design and motion graphics stuff for streamers. I supremely enjoy his banter, the commentary, and the simple but effective edits.
I can't get enough either!!!
I am an engineer and totally get what he does. Love the banter, puts tech stuff in a simple to understand way.
Great to watch. Keep it up pal 👍🏼
As a hobby lathe, these are great. The tool becomes the project, and it’s quite satisfying to see it improve and become more pleasant to use as you make your modifications.
To me this seems like the perfect starter lathe for a home hobby machinist, since all you guys ever do is make new tools and upgrade old ones. Having something to fix up fits right in!
Years ago i saw my first old tony video by random and from that on i liked them.That time i had no clue about metal working if i needed something i told it to a friend. After short time looking the videos I bought a mini lathe to look if i like this kind of hobby and two months after buying i did the same i removed the bearings(with Lithium bearing grease) and the nylon change gears to steele. The next thing was with the two little plates the support is fixed to the bed.. They are the weakest part of this lathe so i made it new and thicker with good steele and put some taper gibs to it to have the best sliding with the smallest play and it worked very well. Please look how the support is clamped to the bed and how they want you to adjust it.. Design mistake is the only word for it. I sold my Minilathe after 2 years of improving for the same price i bought her and the new owner, he lives near the Italian border and restores old Vespa bikes loves it and is very satisfied. Without old Tony i don't know if I would have got involved into lathe and metal working 👍😎 thanx
P. S. Forgot to mention that now i have a room full with a big lathe, mill, tool&cutter grinder, metal bandsaw, welder, 3 bench grinders, metal heating ofen, air compressor and so on.... 😀Man that thing really got me 😉
Wolfi Tirol m
Yup, when the machining bug bites, it usually bites pretty hard.
"Hello, my name is Wolfi and i am a machining addict."
"Hi Wolfi!". ^^
@@bdkj3e I know, I'm putting a mini lathe on my sailboat. On my last trip I could've saved thousands of dollars if I had one. This boat isn't leaving port without a mini lathe, mill plate,portaband and my tig welder. The lazarette and cockpit will be a mini mobile workshop and it'll fit in where I stored the boat fenders. I don't like keeping them on deck in heavy weather. But its a small price to pay for being able to fix things while in some of the world's most remote islands.
same thing here on a smaller scale .... got infected and there´s no medical treatment against it :D
It also occurs to me that the plastic ring is a self-adjustment feature: If you overtighten the bearings, the spindle heats up and softens the plastic, which deforms and relives some of the preload until it's running cool enough for the plastic to remain solid. Perfect preload every time!
Brilliant!
I don't think it would keep up the tension for long. Due to creeping the spacer will lose it's form (and therefore the preload) over time anyway. A higher operating temperature will only speed up this process.
Only alternative would be a thermoset plastic which shows less viscoelasticity, but then the "thermal fuse" wouldn't work anymore.
Tapered roller bearing when side loaded naturally push outward. That spacer will just keep getting smaller and smaller.
Actually, the proper way to set the preload is to set the bearings dry, and then measure how big a spacer is needed between the two bearings internally to set the proper run out on the spindle shaft. Then when the spindle is greased and tightened to the proper torque, you can use the jam nut to lock it down. Too short a spacer inside, and the bearings are too tight. Too long a spacer, and the run out is too sloppy. Too short a spacer is easily corrected by using shims until the correct spacing is achieved.
I thought about that too while watching but ultimately came to the conclusion that some light belleville washers might be better.
"Always use your one good eye when operating any hand or power tool."
This is one of the Easter eggs that make your informational videos more than just good information.... and worthy of a fun rewatch. Keep it up man.. looking forward to so many more!.. (videos that is... the Easter Eggs are a great byproduct)
"Always use approved eye protection when operating the subscribe button" 1:12
You've got some fans in Milwaukee- I was sporting my This Old Tony shirt at a casino on Christmas and got quite a few "Hey- This old Tony! I love that guy!"
Also in Kenosha!
@@ro_yo_mi I love K-town!
And up in Appleton.
Tony for President...
@@neuxstone ... well... unless Tony decides to lathe his own wall... 😱🥶
Reminds me of the time after high school I worked as a gopher at small industrial design workshop. Lots of sweeping, driving (Go Fetch...gophetch..gopher), mixing silicon etc. My crazy AF boss said I could get on the lathe. I had never used one let alone touched one. He said figure it out. It was one of the COOLEST times of my life. All I wanted to do was get on that lathe. I'd get handed designs for small stuff which I had to turn. Luckily, behind me was guru working on a CNC who took me under his wing whenever I needed help which was often. One time I opened the top of the headstock to see the gears working and I dropped one of the bolts in...doh. The aforementioned boss walked in, saw my plight, laughed and said: "At least you were curious"... I spent a couple of hours trying to get that damn bolt out. Priceless experience!
@ThisOldTony Keep it up. I love your videos. They've inspired me. Thanks!
Dale Botha
- I won't comment much about the "dropped" bolt. But I'll add the fact that on my working trousers, with several pockets. There's ALWAYS an extendable magnet! Just saying... LOL 😂
I am subscribed to about 60 channels including a lot of mechanical/machining/welding channels. ToT videos are the only ones I am ALWAYS in the mood to watch. Others post new videos, I might not watch them for days. New ToT video, I drop what I'm doing.
Likewise , I was in Hawaii with the wife and watched the latest ToT on the beach.
John Ridley ditto mate. I’ve been in engineering over 30 years, totally get what he does, i love the videos, cant wait for new ones to come out. Roll on the next one
I wasn't wearing approved eye protection when operating the subscribe button and now I have a lathe in my right eye.
Me Too. Cheque is sent. Machine stuck in Suez
This old Tony, I forgot to use eye protection when operating the subscription button! Is this going to void my warranty?
@DANK I like your way of thinking!!!! Keep Rocking!!!
I guess mainly no takesie-backsies
@DANK wait are you serious? You would rather waste your own time fixing something when the manufacturer is required by law to repair/replace it for you free of charge because of their own mistake? That makes you feel like a man?
@DANK legendary reply
Eye protection? Is that to keep from getting subscribing fluid in your eye?
I want to see that riser block build video. I don't care it's just a block of metal with holes in it, you made it so we're going to watch it!
Dammit Jim!
@Robert Appel What's the real difference?
Yeah I get it, although I assume it would be funnier if I watched the show.
@Robert Appelwhat make bearings u use
The humor alone is worth watching the video. Lots of chuckles.
For anyone following Tony;s bearing upgrade, suggestion: while you have the headstock dissassembled, take some time to check all the mating surfaces fit well, and also change out the plastic spacer to a steel one. Check for space to add a block between the top and bottom of the head stock support area of the main beam, often this is an "I" shape section and will benefit from adding supports to change it to and "II" or "III" shape where the head stock rests. This will reduce chatter considerably. Good Video thanks,
The new thumbnail game is top notch 🤓
I'm surprised that a 850k sub channel doesn't have more likes on a comment
I see you're shopping for new cookware. Lol
Brought to you but Skillshare! 😎
Yeah it is!
Learning how to machine chocolate, Alex ?
Tony - thanks for another enjoyable and educational video!
And the dose of healthy sarcasm. Refreshing.
@Awakened2Truth - Disciple of Jesus the Christ - So is believing in Jesus and being nice to others EVEN in TH-cam comments.
I'm in Thailand watching this, so yes.... Worldwide. And I have a mini-me lathe, just not quite as mini as that one.
Praise from Ron Corvell is quite a feather in your chuck
Ron Covell, metalworking god.
When you 'fit' the keyed plastic spacer on and said "oh, that's nice" I fucking lost it!
Tony, I would charge me more than a $150 to move my own lathe just to a different spot in my shop. So he must have been a very good friend.
the "someone i thought was a friend" was down to the fact that he wasn't just a friend, he was a *great* friend... (no homo, mind...)
I upgraded mine to tapered roller bearings recently, very pleased with the result. Have to say though, having the model with high/low gears makes this upgrade a lot more complicated! Also, I decided to 3d print some flexible covers/seals to replace the end caps, they worked out very well. I also had to print some new spacers so all the gears all lined up i woulda turned them from aluminium if I'd know the dimensions before I took it apart.
One final tip, The 4mm key that locks the high/low gears to the spindle was stuck, and all attempts to remove it failed - until I decided to drill and tap a small hole near the end of the key, and fashioned a slide hammer from a long M3 bolt and a piece of scrap steel. A few taps and the key came out easily.
Nice one Tony. Very well explained to the general public. You almost bring a tear to my eye when you compare your mini lathe to a Colchester. It makes me proud to be British :) ...Retired toolmaker.
Imagine if ToT got his hands on a real British piece of kit. A Dean Smith and Grace for example. Quality like no other.
A British lathe of similar capacity is around the same size and work capacity. Will it last as long? Dont know. I sold an 82y/o one yesterday and replaced it with a 16" bed 500W Sieg. I shall find out if it is better, I suspect so.
All the B/S about nylon gears? What do you think the majority of power tools use.
If it is heavy probably steel if light as most prefer defenitly plastic. This includes lower end premium brand items.
@@ldnwholesale8552 my 4000w electric bike uses nylon planetary gears to move me around and it's fine. Until it gets warm.
@@ldnwholesale8552 now tell us, which is better
I grew up around tools but got interested in radio and electronics some six decades some back. At which point I was forced to build my own stuff. Which mean knowing how to make holes and shape things helped immensely. And then I got older, found ways to make money & bought radios that I didn't have to construct out of street scraps. But I still took 'em apart and added things or otherwise modified 'em.
. . . So this video reminded me of that. You get something that'll work for you, you modify it so it'll do what you want just a tad better and in the end have the satisfaction of (a) having gotten something for less than the big guys and (b) turned it into something that the big guys couldn't do 'cause they're not you and not as inventive.
. . . Once again, nice video, amigo. Makes me almost wish I had the room to mess with one of those lathes too. I'd have to move aside Dad's early 1900s print shop, though. Heavy metal addictions have their limits.
Sir, that's a very interesting story there. I have recently developed an interest in electronics; do you have any advice as to a starting point for me?
@@Bamako-qd5tx Decades ago you could learn plenty from amateur radio books. But the radios are more computers now than radios, so that's scrammed. Basic info books for starters like the old (past two decades) ARRL handbooks are good to start with. Best thing is to find some old guy who can show you things & how they work. (I learned plenty playing with crystal sets, believe it or not.) More recent books may give you more up to date parts theory info but the basic stuff hasn't changed since the early 1900s.
And now I have developed an interest in old mechanical calculators . . . at which point I really do need a small lathe to repair & replace broken & worn parts.
. . . Oh the joys of constant distraction!
@@haramanggapuja Hiya, thank you for the response. I will take your advice and start with a book or two and I've just about finished building a blockwork shed, as a base for my projects. I'm not familiar with mechanical calculators, but I will check them out. I would also recommend investing in a small lathe if you're restoring or refurbishing any mechanical devices, as they are so useful; I have an old Raglan training lathe, which is very basic but also very rigid and I may not use it from one year to the next, but when I do need to turn something - it becomes invaluable. Thanks again and good luck for the future!
As a garage hobbyist, I always wanted these machines. Fortunately for me there was a high school near me that stopped offering shop classes for kids not interested in college, so the Machines were destined for a dumpster. They practically gave me my South Bend Heavy 10 and Enco Mill. Now... this channel allows me to learn without going to Trade school at night
Great info, easy to follow and easy for a Jarhead like me to understand
I can't believe you're doing lathe puns. Oh well; No TURNING back, now.
This will be my favourite THREAD.
Just cut it out .. OK? If you do it now, there is a slither of a chance that you won't turn people off. 😮
I might as well SADDLE up for this silly ride.
We should take STOCK of these dad jokes, and BED down some rules. Otherwise, everyone will RUN OUT of ideas. 😁
what is all this CHATTER about? im a BIT confused. was just WANDERING around in the comments section.
Great video buddy. I liked that you knew how to pack the bearing correctly. You would be surprised how many people have made videos about that upgrade and don't know how to pack the bearing properly. Keep up the great job and have a happy new year. I hope next year is as good as this one was.
I had a 1970 VW bug. Now I worked on fixing this at 16. Yeh Dad, helped, but I put the fire out; when he was brazing. The Pre-70's front ends had twin nuts, like you have and a tin sheet metal flange you beat over to lock the nuts in place. Well - I had to change my front end, for a 72, that I also grabbed. Whole cars, were as good as spares, back in the day. So imagine my wonderous surprise, when I was met with a pair of roller bearings and a split NUT, with an Allen screw. The word F-UP was entered into the Webster Unabridged Dictionary - in 1980, when I realized I had crushed the roller bearings and races. Installed a fresh set for a Prince-ly sum and I was on the roll again. Cheers all!
Thanks for doing the mini Lathe series. It has given me the courage to come out as a mini-lathe owner. I use it and my mini-mill to fabricate parts for electric bikes out of Aluminium. Maybe someday I'll have the space for some full sized equipment. In the meantime, if you recognize its limits, It it fun.
Thanks for the video today! I had too much non-engineering content in the past three days.
I love your videos so much! Hilarious and informative.
Years later. Looking at some lathe only a tad better featured this vid was revealing. If the haulage estimate is reasonable you just won a dealer quite a good sale.
My intake to a General Electric training school in '66 had only Colchesters. I never thought anything less was a good buy. 0 They were only the student machines after all.
Now in retirement I suddenly got the bug and see how much fun just adopting a foreign immigrant lathe could be.
These parameter checks just gave me the confidence to wire the cash and reorganise my boathouse for a childhood relived. So much appreciated .
Tapered roller bearings are brilliant. The most important this about fitting them is the installation torque. Too tight and they wear out too loose and they wear out.
What I did was use aircraft wheel bearings.
They are not overly expensive but more importantly they will have a fitting procedure and a final torque.
Usually the procedure goes like this.
Fit bearing. If the final torque is 45 in/lbs
Than you tighten to 3 times that torque while rotating the shaft. Back the torque of to 0 and re-torque to 45 ins/lbs.
If you know someone in the aircraft industry they can get you some Aeroshell wheel bearing grease, otherwise automotive grease will do.
I have access to all the aircraft equipment so this was easy for me.
I did mine 4 years ago and it's still going strong!
I did this same mod to my lathe and saw immediate improvement in surface finish and overall NVH... i also shimmed the carriage to the ways and installed brass gibbs in the cross slide and compound... she’s a smooth little machine now 😌 love all your videos! Happy New Year and keep the vids coming 😊
You are magnificent!
Thanks for making this series! 🙂👍 I'm watching closely, as I am contemplating adding a mini lathe to the ole garage.
If you struggle for space, or have stairs like I do, a mini lathe is your only choice. Many ways to improve them, but they work quite well out of the box...
Came for the lathe stayed for the comedy. You're hilarious doc
Gotta say, when I caught the "good eye" sticker, I burst into uncontrollable laughter. Good one Tony!
Happy Holidays and thank you for making it almost impossible to find reasons not to have a lathe.
As I have said before I have the identical lathe, And all jokes aside it is very nice to see these upgrades done with such detail. Great video as always!
This is good. I am a Design Engineer and skilled C.L Machinist. It's ok to get oil into the bearings it doesn't matter if it comes out. You need to get oil in there every so often. Keep it away from wires. If you use a high speed steel cutter your RPM will have to come right down but the chatter should go, you can't use the same high speed as a tungsten carbide tip and a top rake groove will have to ground into the HSS tool and it needs flooding with coolant then the chatter should stop. Nice try with the bearings though. I've just decided to buy one of these toys as I have now retired. I have seen one with a 1.5" spindle bore. (The same as the 1.5" on your Colchester Student). This is a good video. I will buy one based on this. I will put a video up showing how to grind the tool. It's easy when you know how. Hope it works.
You started this series just as I had found a mini lathe to buy. Perfect timing for me to improve my lathe and skills. thanks again for the quality videos!
Awesome stuff as always.
Unfortunately I'm still centuries away from getting a lathe, but if I get my hands on this type, I'll definitely refer to these little bits of wisdom. Thanks for uploading!
EDIT: Well, I guess whatever I'll end up with, I might still look into upgrading it along these tips of yours.
EDIT #2 (about two weeks later): Looks like centuries pass by lightning fast nowadays, so I convinced myself to order a mini.
If I can believe the retailer, it'll arrive in a couple of days.
Tony DON'T Laser THE CAT
He used the IR gun though
Very clearly explained, with no stone unturned. I will probably do this upgrade at some point, using your tutorial to guide me. Thanks for sharing.
Thank you for that Tony, I don't have one of those but you have just covered the major points of changing spindle bearings in most lathes including old worn out ones.
I tested the spindle deflection with a DTI and a hang scale at the end of a long pipe. The result is that objectively, the spindle deflection with the factory bearings is much, much smaller than the deflection of the chuck jaws and the compound combined. If your work moves, it will be because the jaws or work are deflecting, not because of the spindle bearings. The compound is where the vast majority of rigidity and chatter problems come from.
The bearing caps can be used to hold an O ring or a gasket to serve as a dust seal for those open bearings, and might also help keep the grease in them. A preload spacer between the bearings could also provide inner seals for complete grease retainment (but I don't know any mini lathe owners who have found it necessary to go through the effort).
Putting fancy bearings in the headstock doesn't help much unless the bed is rigidly mounted to something stiffer than the lathe bed. It's a very good idea to borrow use of a big mill, clamp the bed upside down to its table and mill the bottoms of the feet flat and to the same height. Without rigid mounting you can put a test indicator in a magnetic mount on the bed, with the indicator on a piece held in the chuck - then gently press down on the top of the headstock with one finger and watch the indicator move.
If you want the lathe to be somewhat portable, mill or grind the flat side of a big piece of U channel flat then bolt the lathe to it. If you milled the feet flat it shouldn't require shims to keep the bed from twisting.
Step 1 - Buy a new machine
Step 2 - Mod it until you're happy
Step 3 - Repeat step 2 until the end of time because it will never be *perfect*
Step 4 - Profit
This explains why I never profit
You'll always end up buying a new machine, no matter which machine you buy first.
I thought you buy a small machine to BUILD a big machine
Step 5 - buy a new machine
or 3.5 rebuild it so much that you have a new machine with no original parts
4 sell the original
5. Profit!
A great introduction & overview! Thank you for sharing - and, for the introduction of The Little Machine Shop
As a rule of thumb, radial ball bearings are rated for axial loads of about half their radial load rating. My recollection (from more than a few years ago) is that rating is at a lower speed, but these lathes only go about 1000 rpm anyway. What the tapered roller (or angular contact ball) bearings will give you is rigidity on many axes - radial, axial and moment. Great upgrade!
No matter the topic. Your vids are just a joy to watch.
My mini lathe purchase in 2002 made me think, "This is a pile of cast iron, YOU make a lathe out of it." But it turned out to be a lot of bondo under the paint, it has never functioned as a lathe. It turns an arbor to spin wire wheels.
I just wanted to say thank you for the effort you put into your content. Can't wait to see where you go with this little machine Mr Old Tony.
Really enjoying the lathe videos. I'm too lathe-y to do this job myself, so I'm glad I get to do it vicariously through you! Happy New Year!! 🎇
So, i got myself an Emco compact5 mini-lathe years ago, but this was of course made in Austria not China and is considered a watchmakers lathe or modelmaker/prototyping lathe. It has handled some rather huge workpieces, like a new bearing assembly for my concrete mixer, while maintaining very little runout. However, every little bit and piece of this costs real money, like 150$ for a gear set, 80 bucks for a set of 4 quick change tool holders (only holders without mounting post) and so on... But seeing some of the engineering details in this video, i know what i paid for...
This is the sort of lathe that would be lovely in the spare bedroom to while away frosty evenings. However, when you see how much better second hand machines are it seems like mediocre value. I imagine by the time you are finished it will be CNC controlled via a satellite link and only used on spent fission control rods?
The availability of second hand lathes varies depending on geographic location. Some places lathes were never there in large numbers in the first place. So you're just not going to find many used ones there either.
I'm putting one in the cockpit of my sailboat. ; -)
@@1pcfred Yep. I drove about 300 miles to pick up my last one. A mid 1900s Hendey with a 30 inch throw.
Sorry....27" chuck.
@@bryanlawless1858 that's what some have to do. I know there's nothing around by me. There never was. Well, we have a booming chicken industry. But if it doesn't have feathers or isn't related to chickens somehow it's not here either.
Thanks again, your videos are great and you have hit the balance between educational and entertaining in such a wide range of tinkering... I'm always impressed.
The upgrades were logical and probably produced the best bang for the buck. The milling marks on the slides were driving me crazy, time to break out the scraper again Tony ;)
Machines like these are best run with high rake tooling in my opinion, the insert shown would be a big ask for this machine due to the angles of the cutting forces. For those playing along at home, high rake inserts designed for aluminium can still turn steel just fine, just wouldn't be used in a production setting. The only disadvantage is they can produce stringy chips. HSS with a high rake and kept sharp would also work ok and a suitable chip breaker can also be mangled into the tool.
This man's genius no longer amazes me. I just expect it now....
Bearing change will actually be my New year's day project for my 7x12 minila! Also I suspect "someone" got carried away and took a slightly too large bite out of a steel chunk spinning in my 4 jaw today. That, I believe led to that my new year's day also will involve replacing my hi/lo speed gears. Motor spins but spindle is very stationary. No surprise, as the little thing has made hidious noises lately so I figured I had it coming and already have the new gears. Too bad the thing I was machining was a piece for a spindle removal tool...
Ok tot, im from the future, have never turned, milled or machined a piece of metal in my life, but I must say that this kind of content is widely appreciated (by me) here in 2020. I may just start the journey in metal working and machining, just to keep up better with your content. Hope to be in my second lathe by late 2019. Oh, wait. Thats not how time traveling works.... right?
One solution for the preload is using a spring washer on the bearing nut end of the spindle if that end has a sliding fit. This allows the preload to self adjust to temperature changes. I've used this strategy on a number of rebuilds with good results. Logan lathes actually put a pair of massive Bellville spring washers between the outer bearing race and the inner retaining clip. Very effective setup. I repeated it when I converted my Logan from sloppy ball bearings to Timkens. Works great. Used this strategy on my C6 CNC conversion headstock and my home cooked CNC mill.
You shouldn’t anthropomorphize ball bearings. They hate it when you do that.
LOL!
They also hate it when you speak for them!
I have only ever seen this word used in youtube coments. This is the first time I have seen it as humor.
@@aidanlevy2841 Did you mean squeak for them?
Ha!
Is it wrong that I smile, and start to chuckle the instant I get the notification alert for new *This Old Tony* videos?....do I have an addiction to wry humor??...or do I just love machining videos waay too much?
Both. The support group meets up around here just about every time TOT posts a new video.
Another great video. Just the right mix of tec and humour.
Also invaluable for someone looking to start machining and trying to decide between a mini lathe and a second hand real lathe.
Thanks.
I've been going through some hard times latley and the normal stuff I use to distract me hasn't been working. But latley I've been watching more of your videos and they have really been able to help me get out of a bad place and where I need to be to get out of these hard times. Thank you
Was just getting ready to shoot a new video(wearing my new TOT shirt) & saw this, guess I can take a break, hahaha... Hope you had a great Christmas... take it easy...
No wonder I'm blind. Wasn't wearing my safety squints. Good thing this video is braille.
As stated on the label.... "make sure to use your one good eye".
@@knlazar08 - Seen on the Physics lab door: "Do Not Look Into Laser With Remaining Eye"
A machine safety sticker I woul like to have, each line being in larger type than the one above:
If You are an IDIOT,
Step backwards,
Untill you can't
Read this
SIGN!
@@captcarlos I need a sign that says: Ego protection must be worn in this area.
Man I really wish you would have kept making videos on upgrading this little thing and making pieces for it. "Im going back and watching older videos again cause i'm waiting for new stuff" I still think a full rebuild of this thing and going through why you are doing it and what it changes would be suuuuuuper cool lol. Might cost a lot tho both in time and raw mats.
Always a good chuckle over my coffee first thing in the morning... thanks for another excellent vid!
I've seen with my better eye the advice about wearing safety glasses with the subscribe button.
Great video!
The bearing upgrade is a good idea. You can use the regular conical taper bearing at the spindle chuck side without any worry of end play 'load' issues. But the motor / gear side is just asking for trouble because of the load on the race will be none existent unless that plastic spacer is replaced. An angular contact type on the motor side is a good idea - if high quality materials are used but it has its own problems. The chuck side may require the use of shims.
The amount of Pre-load when using conical taper bearings for both ends is going to be what either makes this upgrade work or just make problems worse.
I would test fit everything together without any grease first. See what kind of drag the bearings along with dry end play you are working with. Then grease up the bearings and start final assembly.
I would beg, borrow or buy a torque wrench, while having your wife holding the other end....i'm kidding, to about 50 inch pounds. Start there and then check end play after warming them up to 25% power then 75% of maximum rpm if there's no obvious end play. Then recheck the torque. Set to 50 inch pounds and then add one 1/4 turn. The bearings you have shown are designed for a lot more axial loads than that lathe will have to deal with. Grease, there are some excellent high temperature low friction greases on the market that are designed for bearings turning 3,000 rpm. Timken makes the best imo for this application. It is actually best to fully grease load tapered conical bearings like you would for an automotive application. Wipe off excess and then run the bearings at 25% then 75% to see what kind of grease witness debris occurs. the bearing races will in fact seat pretty quickly. If you think there is excessive drag, reduce the preload to 40 inch pounds then 1/4 turn.
On the motor / gear side it will be critical to make sure the bearing race is pressed in perfectly or you will get one hell of a vibration. Having two conical / tapered bearings on the same shaft opposing each other, will bear witness if the holes are centered or not. The bearing must be held in place with near same torque value as the old bearing was because the preload required on this side will be 'set' by the chuck side bearing. There is a problem with this bearing configuration; axial contact will be significantly reduced on the motor side once machine ops begin. The spindle face that mounts the chuck is transferring longitudinal shaft loads down towards the motor side inner bearing inside race, which of course will be away from the outside bearing race, contact being reduced. Your biggest challenge will be harmonics because the gear load on the teeth will create an imbalance on that cannot be eliminated. It's probably why they have used plastic gears.
Because the longitudinal axial harmonics are significant, using angular bearing can also be tricky. The one you show (7206B-2RS) are designed for ONE way with inside face axial shaft load. So whatever collar face it is contact with must take all of the load. Using these on the chuck side is fine if the spindle shaft makes full contact with the shoulder without hitting the outer race face. Angular bearings often have weird limitations. When using them on the motor / gear side, make damned sure the angular bearing inner race 'face', is gearside. Using your image as an example, it's on the right side). Just ask me how I know...
Angular bearings are not to be greased and the amount of preload is almost zero. Shims may be required to make sure it is just seated and 'super snug' on the motor / gear side. But this is where it gets sticky, if the angular bearing is set with almost no preload - how can we set the preload on the chuck side conical / taper bearing. Based on the design of the mini-lathe shaft used, there is no workaround to this problem given the way the bearing on the chuck side will have to be pressed onto the spindle shaft.
Ultimately I would recommend you either choose Conical / Taper bearings together as a set or Angular Bearings together - but never mix the two on the same shaft. I prefer Conical Taper bearings for this application despite the problems it introduces on the motor side bearing because they significantly reduce harmonic vibration at high rpm.
So in other words, do what Tony did.
Loved the changing wording on the yellow label. Nice touch!
wow. I will share my story here which relates because you are partly the influence of my story. I'm trying to get my feet wet with machining and a lathe is the first step. Now I refuse to go out and buy one. Instead I'm planning to try connecting a motor to an axle with some pulleys. I happen to have several ball bearings, a mistake made ordering lawn mower wheel bearings. So I plan to try using them for a light weight test. Beyond that I already thought of using wheel bearings which are just like your upgrade for my next step. Anyway it was great to find simple ball bearings are coming in some lathes of course they are a bit larger than what I have. I'm expecting this to be an adventure.
Jesus! I just got a splinter in the eye when I pressed subscribe! You gotta warn people or else they're gonna sue the living lathe outa you!
Just remember, what does not kill you makes you stranger.
Gee it’s was right there on that warning label!
"Always use your good eye when using power tools"
That's too good hahaha
Hi I didn't intend to watch the video I don't even know how I got there but being a retired machine tool fitter I just thought I'd ever look well I thought you were brilliant most entertaining taking a light-hearted look at a machine that's absolutely useless and trying to put it right give some real handy tips for people who don't do this follow regular job if I didn't work in the trade I would have followed this guy he is 1 funny man with excellent ideas
With my lathe-y eye, I just noticed the warning decal about "always use your one good eye when operating any hand or power tool" clever change of decals! LOL! You, sir, are the best!
"Always use your one good eye when operating any hand or power tool." Lmfao I love it. I need a sticker like that.
Ah! ...that's what that "STTLCOCASOTDWPOAP" setting on my IR gun is !!
Thanks for another great video. The idea of converting one of these to CNC is intriguing. I am certainly not a tribologist, but as I recall moly grease is best used on sliding parts and not recommended for rolling parts such a ball or roller bearings. Something the viewers may want to look into.
Good stuff! I like that you get to the point, yet expand on the details. So many videos you have to hear about how their days going, or how the dog is and we just don't care.
i didnt know I have to use eye protection when subscribing!
Merry Christmas! I'm thinking that the plastic spacer between the gear and pulley might serve to add a bit of compliance for axial preloading, like a super stiff spring would. The manufacturer may have done that so they can preload it by snugging it up and then rotating a set amount. I'd be a bit careful switching it with a steel one, because it seems like without enough compliance you can go from a loose spindle to blowing up the entire world in like a quarter rotation, and, come on, nobody wants to blow up the world during the holidays.
Wouldn't a super stiff spring be better than a plastic bushing? If the plastic compresses, and the friction of the spindle heat it up, I'd think that the bushing wouldn't consistently provide any "spring" tendencies. That'd end up causing the spindle to progressively get looser. An actual spring would probably be far less likely to get inconsistent.
That said, I replaced my bearings on a similar lathe with tapered roller bearings. Assuming I'd screw stuff up, I ordered two sets. I didn't screw up the first set, but now I'm considered replacing my plastic bushing with a machined steel one since I still get runout on the spindle itself. Given the cost of these bearings and because I have a backup pair, there's not much to lose.
@Mr. Morningstar Check the run out inside the taper. 3 Jaw chucks are never perfect and rarely grab a part the same way twice. I've switched over to ER32 collets on the mini lathe. I can usually tap the little bit of runout out of the ER32 chuck. On my big lathe I almost always use the 4 jaw or run between centers.
@@elbowdonkey I think there's a trade off that the manufacturer is making. Some kind of disc spring would probably be best for preloading, but that incorrectly sized spacer probably cost pennies compared to a correct stack of disc springs. I absolutely agree you risk it softening and the preload changing, but they're probably gambling on very intermittent use. I'm basically just speculating though, its hard to pin down where the manufacturer would try to save money on parts versus assembly time :P
@Mr. Morningstar I don't recall exactly, but it was measurable at the spindle (with the chuck off), but also not so much that I feel the need to work super hard at fixing it. To be totally fair, it's not realistic to chase ultra high precision on these lathes. Sure, it's possible to get them more and more precise, but you start getting into "perfection is the enemy of good enough" territory.
@@TabletopMachineShop I noticed on my lathe that the bushing is the same material that you sometimes see pallets made of (super tough, possibly glass fiber reinforced). My gut says, however, that that wasn't so much a design decision as much as it was whatever they had on hand. Other variants of this lathe seem to apply the same philosophy - HDPE, PVC, nylon, whatever. What I haven't seen, though, are metal variants. Which is telling, because I think a metal bushing would be cheaper. So perhaps there's good reason to build that compliance in after all?
We picked a used harbor freight version of this for like 300 bucks on craigslist (it was like brand new)and its served us well for the small things we have had to use it for, its my first metal lathe (and first time measuring a thou) and I quickly realized its limitations, has got me itching for more, I want a machine shop in my garage now, if anything these are great for whetting your machining appetite , honestly im hooked , thanks for the inspiration and keep the great videos coming!!
Thanks nice episode. Please continue this mini lathe upgrade series.
"You'd have to go slower of course, because it's high-speed steel..."
:)
I love my mini lathe. 100s of hours.. someday i will get a “real” lathe. Till then i will enjoy making cool stuff and a few dollars now and again with this.
Will this thing do for working on clock arbors? Doing pivots requires center drilling very small holes into small steel 'axles'.
I had this video in the watch later list for more than a year. Well, better lathe than never
hi Tony it is great to see this rebuild we are hopping for some really good learning for changing these bearings and upgrading them to the betterment of their factory abilities, it is an honor to be here and learn how to make this spindle for this lathe type better for us lathe machine operators both in the hobbyist and the professional machine classes. We sure wish you would have done some upgrades in continual lubrication as you mentioned but this is changing and upgrading video so, thank you.
We do not know about that saddle cross slide so we share nothing here.
Thank you for the share, Lance & Patrick.
Merry Christmas ToT!! With all this filthy language of ball bearings, shafts, head stock and such, you have already made it on Santa's naughty list for 2019!
From the day after Christmas until New Year's, the North Pole is one massive party. "Technically" they keep maintaining the naughty list, but in practice, Santa's too busy pounding eggnog to write. January 1st, though, he's gotta scrub all "thrust" and "loads" and talk of tightness from his vocabulary...
How's the faucet?
My son was just born 2 hours ago and the first time i am able to hold him we decided to watch one of our favorite mad scientist and discuss problem solving methods.
For a hobby machinist these lathes are fine. As you said, few rather cheap upgrades and you will be happy camper.
Will you end up replacing those plastic gears for a set of metal ones? Or are you going to impress us all and make em yourself? :D
the metal gears are not going to improve the performance, in fact some think of them as a safety measure, when power turning passed the carriage stop, the plastic gears break first before anything else.
I have a feeling he bought this machine to make a mini cnc lathe... thus he won't need the power feed gears anyway
@@ddistrbd1.. That's what i was told too but then i changed them into steele ones and nothing happened when i had an accident.. This is not a 2 horse power machine with the 500W motor nothing breaks when you stop it as fast as you can and if youre not sure you can leave one thats easy to access in plastic or nylon and there's the breaking point. One thing the steele gears make is to improve the loudness but with the time the gears go down with the noise but always are a little bit louder than nylon. Old tony could easily make the steele gears by himself as he proved in other projects.👍
@Roderick storey hand filed naturally :)
my gears broke. That was an expensive failsafe to reset. Much more expensive than stripped belt or stalled motor.
The goggles do nothing.
Is that... Real acid???
up and at them
I bought one of these lathes about 7 month back and it's been a very handy tool, once you spend some time adjusting the play in the saddle and cross slides of course which do make quite a difference. Currently waiting for a set of steel gears to arrive. Great vids btw, made with a sense of humour... brilliant.
I did this to my mini lathe a few years ago - well I had it in bits anyway after destroying the plastic gears inside. I replaced the plastic with steel and replaced the bearings with angular contact bearings (Because I'm lazy!). after a few more mods I finally got it turning like a champ, then promptly bought a bigger one and sold it cheap to a friend! another great video.
Letting the modding begin!
Next is the treadmill motor. It never ends...
Buy first a medium size lathe , buy a mill, and than you can buy a minilathe , you have the tools now to repair that .
With the mini lathe, you have the tooling to build a mill and a bigger lathe.
Bullfrog's Workshop aaaaa, No . With a mini lathe , that has 5 inch over the bed , how can you swing 6 inchi parts for your bigger late?
@@emilgabor88 ahh... But yes. The lathe is the one machine that can build itself. You use the smaller lathe to build the headstock of the larger lathe. Once the larger headstock is done, this can be used to build the rest of the larger lathe. It's called bootstrapping. This is exactly how the first machines progressed from being made by hand tools into larger and yet larger machines.
@@emilgabor88 hint: the lathe is not only a lathe, but also a sideways mill and drill press. Swing only limits size of workpieces on lathe operations. When using a lathe as a mill or drill press with the part on the slide, the lathe swing only limits the size of the tools. You're welcome. 😉
Bullfrog's Workshop tank you for the info. Tomorrow I will sell both of my Industrial lathes and al 4 milling machines, and buy a mini lathe if it is the best machine ever. Does it surface grinder, to? Because I have just a cylindrical grinder.
He'll yeh. Mini lathe power!!!
fantastic info for me as i have my own 7x14 mini lathe.. hope this turns into a series on usage and upgrades. thanks tony.
Appreciate this mini-lathe mini-series - still trying to get to grips with a little Sieg 0 I've been tiptoeing round the past few months. Keep 'em comin'! And a very Happy New Year to you and yours.
“Like any good brain surgeon knows, you start with a good clean decapitation.”