Why STAY? Why LEAVE? Economic ISSUES in CS:GO - Esports Salon 22 (feat. Nazgul and Carlos)
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Episode 22 of Esports Salon is a discussion of the problems facing CS:GO on the economic side of the industry.
Joining Thorin are Carlos, Founder of G2 Esports, and Victor "Nazgul" Goossens, Founder and co-CEO of Team Liquid.
This episode was recorded on the 20th ofJanuary.
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#Carlosr #nazgul #Thorin - เกม
Thoorin is incredible at getting these owners on. You pretty much never see nazgul on anything
Because he is actually well respected in the scene and has some actual integrity. How people on reddit can't understand that is beyond me. How do people think someone can get these guests on and at the same time be a douchebag and an idiot.
He is also one of the few people really driving these types of discussions in the scene, instead of talking about how we need to discuss it.
@@skillezkillez yeah you never see these discussions. There's nobody on youtube or in the scene capable of bringing people like this together and making a discussion like this. For all his fault, he is the only one in the scene who gives us this type of content. Nobody else does it.
So amazing to see nazgul on interview like this ,,, legend
Thorin’s so irrelevant he got 2 of possibly the most influential people in esports onto a podcast
Huge thanks to carlos for inviting thorin onto the show
I love when people call him irrelevant and he still gets the best guests to his shows.
@@jerkkub eng is not your first language huh
@@anlaydn1728 It's not and don't tell me you didn't understand what i said.
i guess Im randomly asking but does anybody know of a way to log back into an instagram account??
I stupidly forgot the account password. I would appreciate any help you can offer me.
Rarely see nazgul anywhere and somehow he is here. It's actually really great to be able to see both Carlos and Nazgul on the same show. Great stuff!
Always good to see Carlos on podcasts, this series is one of the best in esports. Thanks you thorin for putting in the work and to all the guests
Duncan "People might not know this" Shields
Crazy seeing a legend like Nazgul finally on a show
What is his track record? I did not know him at all
@@goncalocosta9106 the other half of the liquid org. He has been around pretty much since the beginning. He is the guy behind the csgo, and Dota 2 (I think) sides of TL. Probably has been part of making other teams in other games. But he made the ti winning lineup in Dota and the grand slam winners in csgo.
@@robertparker3357 im sure he is behind starcraft as well since he founded team liquid as a starcraft clan
@@robertparker3357 i follow CSGO quite a lot, not as much now but i did not know who was behind TL decision making in the game.
@@goncalocosta9106 Nazgul is very much a background guy, not very much in the public view. Hugely important though.
Many of the issues could have been solved if Valve gave a fuck about the competitive scene and helped some scene grow and attract sponsors and orgs.
This is the main reason orgs prefer to invest in Riot's game rather than CS.
YOOOO massively hyped for Carlosa and Nazgul in one video LET'S GOOOOOO!
1:20:20 100% True, I started playing CSGO because I watch G2 in other games so I started watching their CSGO games, and now I'm playing it almost everyday.
Same. I used to play cs 1.6 and source but never played csgo. That changed when i saw team liquid play in the london major and i bought one of their jerseys too at the time.
It would be great to see valve doing skins for the major legends according to ranks, like an awp skin for the first, ak second, m4a1 m4a4 for semis and pistols or something for quarters... And like 50% to teams until the next major starts
Or perhaps even for all participants of the majors a whole case
Yeah that would be so sick, or even like team cases set up similar to cases now where there are team cases and you could get a G2 knife. that would be lit
This is a goldmine of knowledge coming from three sources with years of experience.
Highly recommended for everyone to watch it all, especially if you have a business background and/or you want to get into the industry.
Thanks Thoorin for all of this!
This is my favorite series of yours, thank you.
Huge getting carlos and nazgul on the show! A+ content, thanks Thorin 👍
Valve proves again and again that they are not able to actually understand the simple concept of opportunity cost.
If there would be an estimation of money lost because of being inactive, arrogant or simply careless.....
This is the second (long) Thorin video I've ever completed. This and the S1mple episode had my concentration/focus the entire time... so, interesting thing to watch.
Waited so long for another episode with Carlos, I love the guy since he played under SK. And you got Nazgul too? My man be slayin
So cool to see these guys give up 2 hours to educate and entertain us plebs. Massive thanks to the mad lad from Middlesbrough for making it all happen as well! Honestly dk how he's been doing this for so long and just keeps getting better.
Carlos is a great guy I would love to play cs for him lmao
The throwback to the integration of Curse into Liquid :) Nazgul is quite the intimidating name! Great composure :)
1:24:50 They're right on the money here. For the most part, I don't care about cosmetics in Rainbow 6: siege, but when esports teams skins were released, I was frothing at the mouth to buy them. Team Liquid Smoke + weapon/charm bundle, Cloud 9 Valkeryie + weapon/charm bundle, Immortals Vector smg skin, and an Evil Geniuses MP5 skin. There is 0% chance I would otherwise spend money on cosmetics in R6S.
thorin grabbing these “guests” like its nothing. TOOEZ
What a pleasant surprise, Ocelot is on the show.
Very interesting podcasts, thanks for making it and thanks to the 2 guys for joining you.
Don't even know about the CS industry, but sure I'll learn somethin about it if Thorin and Ocelote are talkin about it
Mad props for the video Thorin, the only esport journalist who can call GM/Owners of any major org there is and play with them as equal
What an awesome show. I love hearing about the business side of things and getting these guys on really opens up pandora's box.
I live for these episodes. I imagine its the hardest show to schedule, but I love it so much. Thank you!
So sick, the owners of the two favorite orgs! Never heard from either of these guys, but know it’s gonna be a banger because Thorin
Oh look, 2 of my favourite org owners. How about that. Time to get comfortable and listen.
Maybe thorin was talking about smooya's agency ?
dude this is so sick.... thanks nazgul carlos and thorin. absolutely fantastic.
It's actually shameful youtube took 3 monthes to let me know this show was uploaded, especially with how banging these guests are!
nazgul's mic activates my fight or flight because of twistzz's exit video :(
This cleaned up Carlos is one I'd take home to my parents.
I think the part of the problem is Valve and their non interest for the community at all. I played CS since i was in elementary school but last couple of years its just pain to go and play since every second game somebody is cheating and nobody does anything about it. So me and my friends dont watch tournaments because i dont care what the pros do since i go into MM and im doomed because anticheat is a joke.
Ive got 1k wins in MM and id say 0.5% I've met a cheater. Pretty sure u don't play with prime then?
@@simme978 Im sure u smoking crack or something its not even possible statistically so ur blind or bullshiting
@@Nexus6662 I play a ton of matchmaking. In the past year or so I've come across 2 people that were obviously cheating. So your trust factor must be dogshit.
@@0u7break13 indeed let me guesss gold nova ?
@@Nexus6662 Or you are one of those who blame cheats when someone is better than you.
I'm a Liquid fan in three games; LoL, SSBM, and CSGO; CSGO is the game I actually bought a liquid jersey for, so there's my anecdote
I don't watch or play CSGo but I loved this discussion. On the football vs. franchise system: In Germany we can see actually quite a few traditional good clubs going down unfortunately. I would say there are 2 big reasons and one is of course also missmanagement but the other is that the money thats shared in the league is distributed in a way that helps the clubs who are already good. You simply don't have the same starting ground between the teams and that is one of the reasons that drove me away from football and towards American football where at least all franchises are in the hands of rich people who all have the same agreed salary cap.
One of the most interesting esports podcasts I have seen in a long time. Fantastic guests deeply knowledgeable insights and wonderful hosting. Top tier thorin keep um coming
Thoorin you have the CSGO journalism crown HANDS DOWNNNN!!!!!
Nazgul seems to have a lot of the NA business mentality, but also seems really reasonable and open to other perspectives. Seems like a cool and interesting person seeing him first time here imo.
hours and hours of thorin getting me through work, many thanks
With the skins. I feel like it is the case with some people buying skins they see players using but only Valve benefits, I mean viewers see players using the skins and might want them as well. I'm thinking like Kennys' Magic Stick but there might be other examples
Can't believe that the legendary NiP core only made $500/month. In Sweden that barely makes the rent for the cheapest apartments.
It's 1/4 of the minimum wage in most industries. And they had massive nation wide commercials with some of the biggest brands during that time, no wonder Fifflaren is outing the old bosses.
If I'm correct that low a salary even means you're getting all the tax you paid, sent back to your account.
Very insightful hearing the industry leaders discussing. Thx
Did Nadeshot opted out to be on this show? I think so
He's busy with merchandise
The comment about how the open system from Premier League is actually less egalitarian than the closed system is really interesting. Another case where on paper it makes sense, but reality goes a different way. Same case for AFL, NRL, Rugby. Closed systems that result in greater distribution of talent
This might be one of my favorite Thorin talk shows so far. Sick content mate
Incredible episode!!
Gambit winning the major was the best moment in cs for me
Learned a lot, thanks
If any piece of an economic system is not profitable it is usually because one entity is making disgusting profits while the others lose out. If the entity making profit reduces their rates, the system is saved. Profit can be acceptable but must be re-invested, sometimes with no return, in order to preserve the other parts of the system that enable everyone to do their work. If the fan base loses their jobs, the entire system collapses, and the same applies to all aspects of the system. Hence the term, "too big to fail", and government bailouts. The reason a system fails can be because one entity makes too much profit, and does not re-invest properly, or buy out, or bail out the failing entities. For E-sports to succeed, everyone involved needs to just be non-selfish with money, and protect the aspects of the system that are necessary for the longevity of E-sports. If a company is raising their rates it's because they are trying to fail you then buy you out! If the game is cheaper to buy, players can donate to their team to fund the E-sport.
They should've done team logo/color glove skins for affordable prices to show support. Even $5/10 or 15 for a pair would bring in a ton of revenue for the orgs, along with gun skins as well would be even better. Normal glove skins would still hold their rare value and the whales would still buy their cases. Everyone wins.
I would really love an episode of this series about the problem with fighting games from the orgs point of view, I really love the games and some get decent viewership (thinking brawhalla mainly) but it doesn't really seem to get much attention.
Ex-mibr cogu reported they offered ~3k for him and the players (or as he said: 1/3 of what was reported on globoesporte.com,10k). Maybe the orgs are already stopping the investing phase and trying to be sustainable
Do people actually just watch for the team instead of players? I feel like there's so many roster changes that it hard to stay loyal. I like stew but once he switched to liquid, I dropped c9. Same with S1mple. If he goes somewhere else I would probably not watch every Navi game.
I was the 1000th like. I would like to thank my parents, Thorin and Richard Lewis.
Don't you mean "my parents Thorin and Richard Lewis" ?
@@jonaswrobel6329 :O
I mean if the players/agency are asking too much just get somebody else, there are so many talents in fpl but orgs just wont keep on trying to get overrated players. Why cant more orgs be like faze or mouz, getting bymas and broky
Excellent guests and great topic
Why didn't nadeshot show up for the fourth slot.
Very interesting discussions!
Insane work thorin
Great piece of content. Well done
no one:
Carlos: 𝗧𝗵𝗲𝗿𝗲𝘀 𝗻𝗼 𝗺𝗮𝗴𝗶𝗰
I'm a comment to make the algorithm recommend this video to every TH-cam User
To me, personally, it seems like the teams who dumped CS:GO and jumped ship to Riot/Valorant are treating their orgs like massive asset flips. I think someone like 100T for example, are just building their org with a bunch of teams who are in Leagues that do or will eventually require a massive buy-in. So if Valorant goes the way of LOL and the buy in is like 10m and then it becomes somewhat successful and future investors are looking around for a way in, IMO 100T and their current investors are going to fucking rinse the buyers for 5+ times what they spent. Buying 100T will immediately give the buyers an LCS spot, a CDL spot and potentially a spot in a Valorant league. Nadeshot and everyone else will make off with the fattest fucking pockets ;D And imo, orgs like G2 and Liquid arent looking to sell their orgs to the Chinese overlords in 5 years. Theyre trying to become standalone entities in the esports/ sports world potentially which is why theyre willing to stay in CS and actually invest
WE LOVE YOU BASEDGOD
45000 is too less tbh compared to the effort that goes in at this level.
dan ken’s channel
Such a good pod
+Great show.
That was fun
I know nothing about CS. I'm just hear to see Thorin and Ocelot shouting at the cameras.
Guys... I'll try harder T-T Keep it up! We can make it through the pandemic >__
Carlos, I love the sweater!! >__< I wish for a blessed future for the csgo team!! May they have a great run :3
It is a pleasure to meet you, Nazgul! I banter about a satellite campus for when California gets oversaturated and you guys eventually move more inland ^__^ I still believe the Great Lakes are the Fountain of Youth ^^;;
I am not one to do my work for my resume/cv, my investment into the esports scene to be qualified to be a sport has shown enough trackers that the parallels are enough of a percentage of attention that attracts the teams of the big players. We get that :) But I feel that I can't know until I get past the lens.
G2 deserved beating SKT that year. They deserved a 2-3 against TOP, at a minimum. I still believe in the organization that put EU on the world's stage. There is no need to pretty up the impact of what your organization has done. Even with all of the pressure of what it means to run a company. You created that entity. G2 is a person.
CSGO has never been a doubt in my mind, been the fps to watch of today's age of humanity. I apologize, Duncan! >__
wait which LOL org that came in in S6? G2?
Immortals
@@0tb16 ty
very interesting
sick content
hey
Is he hinting for the 1.2 million huni deal? Lmao
Based
Awesome
Great
just invest in diabotical
Is he no longer a wonderful body builder
:(
Rona taken too much from us
35:03 worst take I've heard in my life
it makes sense tho, unfortunately
well if you look at the business side of things it makes sense
It completely makes sense in terms of appealing sponsors, if you don't know this is the reason some the newer brands don't invest in CS but do in other esports just because they dont wanna be associated with the "theme" which is naive but true.
@@Expanses02 they would attract brands but they would lose a ton of viewers, overwatch attracted sponsors as well but they lost their viewers due to that same aggressive PC marketing and look what happened to them, I would be the first one to leave the CS ship if they go against the tradition