Except they weren’t methoding hard enough and then the methoding methodists came in and said “it’s methoder methoding time” and methoded all over the place much harder and more methodly
The only way for Methodist to method right is to just "do the method" *all the way*. Y'know, because otherwise, it's basically just "do the meth" ...I'll see myself out.
If you want to learn about the only Church that is pre-denominational and founded by Christ himself, then I recommend learning about the Orthodox Church. Eastern Orthodoxy is the only true, biblical, and unchanged Church founded by Christ. We are the most biblical Church for the following reasons: We were founded by Christ, we existed almost 400 years before WE released the book of our Church known today as the Bible, the apostles were our first bishops, we are the only church that could claim to be completely theologically unchanged (that's why we emphasize tradition so much), the Churches mentioned in the Bible are the same Churches that still exist today in the Orthodox Church today (such as the Church of Ephesus, Corinth, Phillipi, Antioch, Smyrna, etc), and we are the closest religion in the world in terms of history, beliefs, and liturgical practices to ancient Judaism (we are even more historically accurate than the modern day jews in both liturgy, history, and beliefs, since these modern day jews came MANY centuries after Christ founded the Orthodox Church, and modern jews do not share the same beliefs as ancient jews. Not one Jewish sect today is older than the Orthodox Church). The choice is simple, one of the 45000+ man-made invented "churches" with their own invented forms of theology and practices (traditions of man), or join Christ's one true Church, the Orthodox Church. May God bless, guide, and protect you all on your journey's, Kyrie Eleison ☦☦☦
@@bennyk1559 The body of Christ you say? That would be the Orthodox Church. Eastern Orthodoxy is the only true, biblical, and unchanged Church founded by Christ. We are the most biblical Church for the following reasons: We were founded by Christ, we existed almost 400 years before WE released the book of our Church known today as the Bible, the apostles were our first bishops, we are the only church that could claim to be completely theologically unchanged (that's why we emphasize tradition so much), the Churches mentioned in the Bible are the same Churches that still exist today in the Orthodox Church today (such as the Church of Ephesus, Corinth, Phillipi, Antioch, Smyrna, etc), and we are the closest religion in the world in terms of history, beliefs, and liturgical practices to ancient Judaism (we are even more historically accurate than the modern day jews in both liturgy, history, and beliefs, since these modern day jews came MANY centuries after Christ founded the Orthodox Church, and modern jews do not share the same beliefs as ancient jews. Not one Jewish sect today is older than the Orthodox Church). The choice is simple, one of the 45000+ man-made invented "churches" with their own invented forms of theology and practices (traditions of man), or join Christ's one true Church, the Orthodox Church. May God bless, guide, and protect you all on your journey's, Kyrie Eleison ☦☦☦
@@Giant_BulldogContemporary worship isn't as good as liturgical worship imo, but contemporary worship is better than no worship. And worship style isn't commanded, while Paul encourages hymns and Psalms, David also honored God by writing songs with drums, harps, etc.
Dangerous. A triangular 2D layout forces tradeoffs as the axes are not orthogonal. Not so with a cube, where you can have a point that exceeds another on every axis simultaneously. If RZ has a cube it will just have Presbyterians at (1,1,1) and Baptists at (0,0,0). (This is unfair on RZ at this point, but I think he needs to weather a few Baptists' jokes at his expense).
@@stanislawniedzwiecki Amen! Also, we emphasize tradition so much so that we remain theologically unchanged, besides, Paul told the Orthodox Christians in 2 Thes 3:6: "But we command you, brethren, in the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, that you withdraw from every brother who walks disorderly and not according to the tradition which he received from us." May God bless, guide, and protect you all on your journey's, Kyrie Eleison ☦☦☦
I joke about how Orthodox are the “wizards” of Christianity because of their mystical theology, their awesome beards, drippy robes, incense burning, love of tradition, and the cool staffs.
I was raised charismatic in the 80's (Billy Graham Crusade convert in 84), lived like hell in the 90's, 2000's. Found my way back and into Calvinism 2014-2022 and now on journey into orthodoxy for the past year and will be received as catechumen this coming Sunday. I truly believe I have found my home in 40 yrs as a "christian". That being said, it is a breath of big fresh air that young men like yourself are taking the bull by the horns and spreading the gospel to your generation, so much needed. Keep up the good work young man!!
Went to an 'Anglican' church for the first time today (Presbyterian currently), was lovely, I think tradition is important. If it was in my home town, I would definitely consider moving churches.
Yeah it was Episcopal, hence the inverted commas on Anglican. I'm currently church of Scotland, I like being involved in my community so I wouldn't want to completely stop going to my local parish, but I was definitely moved by the choir and the Eucharist, although I did require pointers from others in the congregation following the order of service since church of Scotland is less involved typically other than the lord's prayer as standard.
Deism is not even christianity, it’s literally a different religion. If Diesm is considered christian so is Judaism and Islam, I think radical classical philosophy would be a better fit. Radical classicism was following the beliefs of Aristotle and or Plato over the faith itself as those were the most reason based approaches to religion.
Look at the top left of the screen. He says they're heretics. If there is a real Christian denomination that focuses almost solely on reason, it should be put there instead. Deism is an example of what that looks like, even if they aren't Christian.
This would go in two totally opposite directions. Eastern Orthodox and Non-denominational care about Presentation for completely different reasons, right? Or was it the other Orthodox that focuses on mystery and has really traditional, but also showy to some, services.
Christmas and Easter are pagan holidays not commanded anywhere in the Bible. They serve other gods and we're breaking the ten commandments when we celebrate them so we gotta repent. If you read Romans 1:22-27, serving other gods is the reason why we're living in Sodom right now. Also check Ezekiel 20:19-21, the Sabbath is Saturday morning to Sunday morning and it's the sign between God and his people, so if you don't have that sign God is gonna pour out his wrath upon you in tribulation. And read Isaiah 66:15-17, people who eat unclean like pork and shellfish are going to be consumed by fire in the tribulation. So repent from eating it And the Messiah's name isn't Jesus, it's Yeshua, he comes in the Father's name Yehovah. He warned us about another coming in his own name in John 5:42-43 because you don't have the love of God in you (the ten commandments - 1 John 5:2-3).
@@ArgueWDelusionalChristiansthat would be completely valid if we were the Jews but we are just believers in their tradition. We subscribe to a later different covenant.
@gazibizi9504 The new covenant didn't happen yet. Read Jeremiah 31, Hebrews 6:1, Revelation 3:2, and Isaiah 28:12. Yeshua died to refresh Horeb 10Cs as Deuteronlmy 18 says. We are still teaching people to obey 10Cs, and the 2nd exodus didn't even happen yet. We are in the refresh of Horeb
Wanted to clarify something on the Orthodox position, we believe in taking part in the divine energies not the divine essence. The difference is important.
I'm PCA, but my church is very historical and has structure that is based on the Book of Common Prayer. I love Anglicanism too, but there aren't many near me. I use the Book of Common Prayer regularly though.
@@redeemedzoomer6053it's an old historic building on the national registry of historic places. Our church was started around 220 years ago by Scottish immigrants, and the church educated President James K Polk. We use liturgy also.
@@redeemedzoomer6053 its so obvious you idolize buildings, tradition and liturgies. Remember, Contemparory Worship Music is objectively good and much better than Liturgical worship. Liturgies suck
@@redeemedzoomer6053 You are not a Christian, you're a Pharisee. You only care about the outward appearence of Christianity(buildings, tradition, liturgies etc) instead of what Christianity is really about
I just hate how he acts like young earth creation is without reason, he needs to debate real young earth creationists to see that it is very probable and has just as much if not more proof than evolution
@@AB-sw4kb I use answers in Genesis as they have many phds on geology, history, paleontology, etc and they find evidence of the global flood and young creation
@@JesusisLord756young earth creation is without reason. I’m sorry but there’s no way to accept YEC unless you’re delusional. Even with a layman’s understanding of a few different aspects of science and history, you’ll quickly realize how impossible it is
Don't Lutherans have a whole scholastic tradition. As a Lutheran I seldom encounter the "mystery" part of our theology. It's there but maybe overemphasized. But good video anyway. :)
I am an LCMS Lutheran and I feel like the mystery aspect of our faith has always been a big part of the teaching I have gotten, especially when it comes to the Trinity, the Eucharist, predestination and salvation. I think maybe it’s a matter of what your pastor/ other teachers choose to focus on
Love this shift for you, Zoomer. These were the kinds of videos that helped me a lot earlier last year as a jumping-off point when I was coming into my faith. I watched so many and it really helped me wrap my mind around all the options, so I felt more comfortable self-studying further. I'm going to be baptized next month in the Orthodox church, and I'm not sure you want my thanks for that, but genuinely thank you
wdym by that? is not the most important thing that you actually follow and love Jesus and know the things he did for our salvation? I think dedication has to be to God not to man.
I think that this segmentation is only valid at world-wide and north american contexts. As an argentinian latin american, here there is virtually no main segmentations between Christians. The problem is that since there are no clear segmentations/denominations, there is a big variance in minor beliefs. However, most non-catholic christians here in Argentina are either Presbisterian-leaning or Baptist-leaning or something in between. Latin american or more specifically, Argentinian protestantism is generally Presbisterian-Baptist or Lutheran-Baptist or Presbisterian-Lutheran. In essence, they value the basic traditions and sacraments in the bible, but they have a heck lot of emphasis in rigurosity and therefore value strongly both the Scriptures and reason. I'd say they either value them the same or are a bit more scripture leaning. Anyways, I really enjoy seeing this videos. Huge thanks. Just wanted to comment that in spanish-speaking countries, this system of classification deviates a very little bit. In Argentina, the triangular chart would be more like: Presbisterian / Lutheran / Baptist; for the majority of the cases. And Evangelicalism would be in the center of the triangle. Hope that helps to give insight!
@@TomorrowWeLive I said more specifically Argentina, I have no idea about other regions from South America. There exist also a few Pentecostals and Jehova's Witness too. But Argentina is predomintantly those who are evangelical-leaning (evangelism, presbisterian, baptist, lutheran) and sort of mix between those.
@MarkStein-b5b Imagine your pet dog trying to understand civilization and all the intricate subsystems that make the entire system work. That's like a highly intelligent human trying to understand exactly what God is.
I appreciate reason as leading me to scripture, the only issue with reason is false presuppositions and sophistry which is why some ought to avoid studies of apologetics. If you’re going to learn these concepts and if you want to be more philosophical in your faith, this isn’t bad, but be careful to not be led astray by some men who seem to be with reason. Though reason is great, whenever I have spiritual struggle, no amount of reason can solve that, that’s why we need scripture and tradition.
Another banger. Probably the best quality of your videos in my opinion is you don’t waste time. Everything is efficient, packed, and gives the right level of information where it’s high-level enough to remember most of it but still specific enough to learn something and know what to google for more info
Just wanted to add that some of the Pentecostal denominations are starting to move back towards being more like the Holiness Movement, especially in the UK, but still calling themselves Pentecostal and staying separated from the Methodists. I guess because they saw where the hyper-charismatic movement went and said 'Nope'.
Honestly I want the Methodist Church to enter the See of Canterbury. Enter communion and denominationally get recognized into the Anglican Church and have Methodism rejoin Anglicanism. Methodists who don't like it can join the Nazarene holiness movement. The schism between Anglicanism and Methodism just shouldn't exist.
Orthodox Tradition is far more complex than simply "we do it because that's the way they did it". There's plenty of room for flexibility within Tradition, but there's also rigidity. It allows room for the Holy Spirit to guide as the years pass, the world changes, and our understanding of God's creation changes. For example, Orthodoxy isn't opposed to a non-literal reading of creation, despite it having been read literally for thousands of years.
Now is the time for all denominations to set aside our differences (obviously not endorsing behaviors such as lgbtq and the like) and unite under our common Savior Jesus Christ. Division inside the Church causes less people to join it.
He never mentioned mormons, lds, or jw... We are all united, we just need compassion for brothers and sisters. (those three I mentioned don't believe in the divinity of Christ and his sacrifice for all sin)
@@Giant_Bulldog re read what I said. "I love" Not "I wholely phariseeically enforce tradition as binding and as superior to scripture and not allowed to be culturally informative" I never idolized.
Ah yes, the rich Anglican traditions that began with the humble beginnings of a King throwing a tantrum because the Pope refused to allow him to divorce his wife so that he could marry his mistress... truly inspirational stuff
This is a very interesting and helpful way to think about denominations and their priorities. As a Baptist, I'm always thinking of ways to pull the modern Baptist culture more toward reason and especially more toward tradition.
Indeed. We acknowledge that scripture is the only infallible authority, and we need tradition to interpret it. However, we acknowledge that you do need some reason as well. Reason isn't worthless. It's just not as valuable as scripture or tradition.
gosh I'm glad there's some sense in youtube!! thanks for explaining the differences and the important bosses of this saga, and now I believe it's worth to study about St. Anselm!
@@planteruines5619yes we often get confused with this other group the shakers that split from and they died out because they where all celibate(there’s only about 4 of them left) but we are still around
This is the absolute clearest explanation I’ve ever seen… thank you so much as an ex-Pentecostal now agnostic trying to understand the broader world of Christian beliefs
It's amazing that while each denomination values one over the other, God can use all three to bring people to him. No matter what we value, God is greater than it all.
To anybody who's reading this, can you please pray for my church such that more guests would come? Unfortunately we've had several pass away the past 2 years and also many children haven't returned via the van ministry. Also, there's a nearby non-denominational church (my neighbor calls it a "mega church WANNA BE") that's rapidly growing according to my friend, which is probably another cause of declining attendance at mine.
As a Catholic, we are exceptionally high church. After all, we do have the magisterium, Vatican II, liturgical guidelines, etc. Doesn't get any more church than denouncing the Pope causes you to be at risk of ex communicated. The church may allow heretical churches to a degree but not denouncing of the higher hierarchical authority.
Also to defend the faith, St Thomas Aquinas has been reported to have been levitating. So redeemed zoomer needs to not just write off Thomas Aquinas for Eastern Orthodoxy as just some philosophical Catholic, he has been reported with miracles such as St Padre Pio.
As a Methodist, I think the quadrilateral is great but only as long as you consult the four authorities in a specific order. Scripture should be first. If scripture doesn’t answer your specific question, tradition should be used. If that doesn’t work then reason (you could argue that reason should be 2nd). Then experience. Experience should absolutely be dead last. Unfortunately, the UMC has been moving towards valuing experience too much which I believe lead to the liberalism we see now.
I wouldn't say that Reformed has zero focus on tradition. My Reformed church is almost 500 years old, and there is a lot of focus on tradition, but now I realize that it is mostly about outward appearance, style, etc. Not that much in theology, however there are some things even in theology, where tradition has some role. Especially when arguing against neoprotestant groups, which most of the time try to snatch away members of our denomination.
I would also point out that a lot of reformed churches these days stick by the teachings of their fore-founders, and not much reasoning occurs. That points back to tradition.
@@thealienrobotanthropologist which proves my point. Oral tradition has no reliable manner of preservation except through writing. And the written tradition we have is the Bible. Let's do what it says, no?
It’s important to clarify that while the Orthodox Church holds tradition in high regard, it does not place tradition above Scripture. To those who are ignorant, this chart could deceive them. In fact, both are seen as integral and inseparable aspects of the same truth, as you said well. Tradition includes the lived experience of the Church-its liturgies, councils, and teachings handed down from the apostles-and serves as a guide to understanding and applying Scripture. St. Basil the Great, one of the early Church Fathers, emphasized that unwritten traditions are valuable precisely because they clarify how Scripture is to be understood. He wrote, "Of the beliefs and practices...we possess some from written teaching and others we have received delivered to us in mystery from the tradition of the apostles". This illustrates that Scripture and tradition work together to preserve the faith. Orthodox theology does not treat tradition as a set of mere customs or practices. It views Holy Tradition as the life of the Holy Spirit in the Church. As Father John Meyendorff explains, “Tradition is not a substitute for Scripture, but rather a necessary instrument for its interpretation.” The two together form a coherent witness to God’s revelation throughout history. The early Church relied heavily on oral tradition before the New Testament was fully written and canonized. This is why Tradition, including the writings of the Church Fathers, is not considered a secondary source, but part of the full deposit of faith that helps believers interpret Scripture accurately and faithfully, in line with the apostles' teachings. Therefore, it’s not a matter of valuing tradition over Scripture, but rather understanding both as complementary. They both point to the same truth, with the ultimate authority being Christ Himself, the Word of God incarnate. The Orthodox Church sees itself as the guardian of this apostolic faith, preserving both Scripture and the sacred tradition that helps to interpret it correctly. Thank you for your effort and videos, and I wish you well with the upcoming Christmas season and the chaos of the storms hitting America, and the election season.
Thats actually awfully similar to the Catholic position. This graph rly doesn't do us justice. Just because we hold Sacred Tradition in much higher regard does not mean we hold Scripture in lower regard. The two are very closely linked together and are almost inseparable
8:33 technically true, but it's more complicated than that. The lutheran view on predestination is a middle way between calvinism and arminanism. We believe in something called "monergistic salvation - synergistic damnation". If we are saved it's because of god alone, he predestined us. In that way we agree with Calvinism. But if we are damned it's "our own damned fault". In that way we agree with Arminianism. How that works together is a mystery. We simply take what's written in the Bible and run with it. God knows everything and predestined us, but we are responsible for our own sin and thus if we get damned we are to blame ourselves. Just wanted to clarify that, since oftentimes, Calvinists will accuse us of being Arminians, and arminians will accuse us of being calvinists :D
One time as a kid I was in Lutheran confirmation class and my dad, the pastor, was teaching us about Calvinism vs. Arminianism, and my dad asked which one was correct, and I said Arminianism because it sounded better than Calvinism. My dad then made a joke that he was raising a heretic in his own house and explained how we were in the middle of Arminianism and Calvinism.
There have actually been a bunch of intra-Lutheran controversies. Some other Lutheran groups accused the LCMS of being to Calvinist a couple hundred years ago. Luther looks pretty different on this sort of thing compared to some of the Lutherans a century later. So there isn't quite one Lutheran view, there are a few. (Take with a grain of salt: I'm not Lutheran.)
As a Baptist, I can say the reason I put so much emphasis on scripture over the others is because scripture is the only one that is divine. Tradition and reason are both gifts from God. They are beautiful and I love them but, like any gift from God, they have the potential to be turned towards evil. The Word, while it can be abused, cannot be corrupted.
While I agree with you, I must say that 2 Thessalonians 2:15 should be kept in mind here. This is why one should be high church, such as a lutheran or an anglican. I feel like low church walks away from what the early church was.
Thats just wrong. Apostolic Tradition is also divine, as its literally the teachings of Christ passed through the Apostles. This was this very tradition by the way that ended up being written down and eventually compiled as the NT.
Obviously he would have very different moral conclusions compared to someone of another denomination. But as long as he is not making moral conclusions and is speaking based off research (such as creeds and church fathers), his presentation is relatively accurate.
For the Wesleyan Quadrilateral, I've always heard it stressed that scripture takes precedence over all the other quadrants. Although tradition, reason, and personal experience are important, you always need to refer back to scripture to make sure it is consistent with the word of God. I think a lot of more liberal Christian, especially those in the UMC, but also in other traditions very much elevate personal experience over all else, when there needs to be a strict hierarchy with scripture at the top.
Exceptional! I discovered you because of Matthew Everhard. I love to see a young man so committed to orthodoxy. FYI our college-age daughter is attending a PCUSA church that is traditional not liberal!
I am subscribing to your channel. I am from a different Church background, but as I am studying to be licensed in Ministry, I have found quite a few of your videos helpful. Thank you for doing your videos and I am eager for more. God bless and Jesus and the Spirit continue to guide you as well.
I like Baptists doctrine in theory, (I go to a baptist church) but the way it's applied really bothers me with the prevalence of anti-intellectualism, ugly churches, and pre-trib eschatology. Or worse, being so literal on the text that the context of that text is completely ignored🙃
@@ethantercier6057 Well this is the rub. I'm involved in the music, and our style is more contemporary (not fog-machine concerts though) with some hymns. I love using my skills as a drummer to make a joyful noise for The Lord, and I fear losing that. :')
As someone in a non-denom now, that last graph is spot on. Our roots are a mix of Baptist and Pentecostal, started by someone breaking away from their traditional church and accidently creating a new tradition that copies the other ones.
Yes. A non-denominational Christian would say that theology isn't important. As long as you accept Jesus as your lord and savior, you're good. Unfortunately, this violates 1 Corinthians 1:10. Paul says we are to be of unified mind. We are not to divide the church. How can we be of unified mind if we don't even accept the same doctrines?
@@legacyandlegend They wouldn't say theology as a whole is unimportant, but they WOULD say "major on the majors, minor on the minors", with many theological debates being relegated to "minors" if it isn't about the identity and reality of Christ. Our church doesn't fall hard on many eschatology positions, but they do affirm the reality of Christ's return, if that makes sense. Ironically, I think the leadership see this as being "in the interest of being a unified mind". They DO affirm a single, holy, catholic "Big C" Church, despite the relaxed theological acquiescence.
Catholics offended that they aren't in the center in very papal supremacy like fashion, Baptists rejoicing being on the fringe in the lonely Bible corner, Orthodox hate the triangle rejecting it like the new filioque, and Anglicans just chillin like 😎 resting in neutrality. This feels...pretty much how everyone is usually but as reactions lol.
Different denominations get thier beliefs from making thier own assuption about what scripture says. What biases they have as a person, what feels godd to the individual (whether its true or not), or a few people yet some inspiration from God that they can handle, and are guided in part to establish certain denominations for the uplifting of people. All these options im sure are inspired in some way to motivate people to do good (hopefully). I find ive done a bit of each of these things in my life, but dont do to much unless i receive a direct answer to my prayers, as its the only way to be sure of something. I wish all a safe journey, and hopefully you will experience some happiness in this mortal realm.
@@NapalmMan69 I'm a TRANS girl, they would decapitate me as soon as they knew about my past, plus, I don't consider Islam historically accurate, the crucifixion of Jesus is accepted by every expert on the historical Jesus for example
Great video. I do want to mention one thing as a Pentecostal- no Christian tradition is an island. For example, there are multiple Pentecostal denominations around the world that are influenced by different theologies and traditions. AoG is influenced more by baptist and evangelical theology, while COGIC is more influenced by the Holiness Movement. Non-Pentecostal Charismatics (Charismatic Catholics, Baptists, Anglicans etc.) have roots in the Charismatic movement. The thing that unites us is Baptism in the Holy Spirit, something that I believe combines scripture, tradition, reason and experience.
as a former baptist, I would add that the Baptist Church is not opposed or suspicious of using reason in faith, but suspicious of trying to say that reason is separate from the Bible. Baptists believe that all accurate uses of Reason will end up supporting the Bible 100%. Baptist believe reason is in service to the Bible, and a that reason is derived from the Bible, so Baptists end up using a lot of of reason to defend their views, because of course the Bible is logical, its the Bible! Hope that makes sense! Love your videos, btw! Keep up the good work!
This was a pretty well balanced review of the starting presuppositions of Christian denominations. As an Orthodox Christian I would say your overall assessment of our priorities is accurate, but perhaps misses some of the nuance that only a practitioner would understand. We believe that the words of God have the highest authority, and that they have been conveyed to us via providential preservation through human agents (AKA tradition). We believe that the highest authority of our tradition is the canon of scripture. This is clearly the case otherwise Orthodoxy would have long devolved into separate schools of thought based on the traditions of different saints just like Sunni Islam. To understand the scripture we believe one must hold to the catholic traditions of the Church (believed by all orthodox Christians everywhere from the beginning), and that beyond that further understanding must be gained via experience in the Divine Liturgy and prayer, and lastly through attempts to use human reason to explain God’s word. You pretty much explained as much about our priorities but I think you fail to appreciate that we hold scripture as the highest tradition and that we have used scripture to correct materially false traditions in the past hence why Orthodoxy doesn’t have multiple parallel schools of thought within it such as Sunni Islam does.
His tie may indeed be stupid, but at the end of the day, the Orthodox Church is the true Church. Eastern Orthodoxy is the only true, biblical, and unchanged Church founded by Christ. We are the most biblical Church for the following reasons: We were founded by Christ, we existed almost 400 years before WE released the book of our Church known today as the Bible, the apostles were our first bishops, we are the only church that could claim to be completely theologically unchanged (that's why we emphasize tradition so much), the Churches mentioned in the Bible are the same Churches that still exist today in the Orthodox Church today (such as the Church of Ephesus, Corinth, Phillipi, Antioch, Smyrna, etc), and we are the closest religion in the world in terms of history, beliefs, and liturgical practices to ancient Judaism (we are even more historically accurate than the modern day jews in both liturgy, history, and beliefs, since these modern day jews came MANY centuries after Christ founded the Orthodox Church, and modern jews do not share the same beliefs as ancient jews. Not one Jewish sect today is older than the Orthodox Church). The choice is simple, one of the 45000+ man-made invented "churches" with their own invented forms of theology and practices (traditions of man), or join Christ's one true Church, the Orthodox Church. May God bless, guide, and protect you all on your journey's, Kyrie Eleison ☦☦☦
That was an excellent video. I would add a 3d axis to ask to this, going from those who defend God's grace and those who defend God's justice. I feel all denominations fit on this taut line as well.
My personal summarisation of Orthodoxy: Eastern Orthodoxy is the only true, biblical, and unchanged Church founded by Christ. We are the most biblical Church for the following reasons: We were founded by Christ, we existed almost 400 years before WE released the book of our Church known today as the Bible, the apostles were our first bishops, we are the only church that can claim to be completely theologically unchanged (that's why we emphasize tradition so much), the Churches mentioned in the Bible are the same Churches that still exist today in the Orthodox Church today (such as the Church of Ephesus, Corinth, Phillipi, Antioch, Smyrna, etc), and we are the closest religion in the world in terms of history, beliefs, and liturgical practices to anicent Judaism (we are even more historically accurate than the modern day jews in both liturgy, history, and beliefs - not one Jewish sect today is older than the Orthodox Church). Paul told the Orthodox Christians in 2 Thes 3:6: "But we command you, brethren, in the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, that you withdraw from every brother who walks disorderly and not according to the tradition which he received from us." May God bless, guide, and protect you all on your journey's, Kyrie Eleison ☦☦☦
@@byrondickens Quite a few times. If spreading Orthodoxy as much as I can to the heterodox makes me a proselytizing zealot then I'll gladly accept that. The truth of Orthodoxy is above anyone's "feelings"; better to be loved with the truth than a lie. Christ said we'd be persecuted for our faith. Besides, Paul told the Orthodox Christians in 2 Thes 3:6: "But we command you, brethren, in the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, that you withdraw from every brother who walks disorderly and not according to the tradition which he received from us."
❤ Byzantine Catholic ❤ Thanks Zoomed for giving us love. I joined Melkite Greek Catholic Church because I want to serve as a missionary to Palestine 🇵🇸🇻🇦🕊️ I am not trying to Larp doing this with humility but I did feel called out 😂 Please 🙏 for me. Know of my prayers for you. 😢
As do the Anglicans/Episcopalians....there is always an Old testament reading, and Epistle, and a Gospel at every liturgy....that part of the service is called "The Lessons"
@daviddavenport9350 if they stuck to tradition, they'd still be Catholic, no offense, but the transition of the anglican church from Catholic to protestant is completely undefensible
@@BernardinusDeMoor King Henry VIII split from the Catholic Church because he had a temper tantrum when the Pope didn't allow him to divorce his wife so he could marry his mistress. That was literally the entire reason for the schism. It had nothing to do with theological disagreements whatsoever. How is that defensible?
This seems like a really good graph actually, given the caveat that all denominations value all of it. I haven’t watched the video but I can tell it should be good and balanced.
Common Anglican L. Anglicanism was founded in 1534 when King Henry couldn't get a divorce. The Eastern Orthodox Church was founded by Christ in 33 A.D. Common Orthodox W. Eastern Orthodoxy is the only true, biblical, and unchanged Church founded by Christ. We are the most biblical Church for the following reasons: We were founded by Christ, we existed almost 400 years before WE released the book of our Church known today as the Bible, the apostles were our first bishops, we are the only church that could claim to be completely theologically unchanged (that's why we emphasize tradition so much), the Churches mentioned in the Bible are the same Churches that still exist today in the Orthodox Church today (such as the Church of Ephesus, Corinth, Phillipi, Antioch, Smyrna, etc), and we are the closest religion in the world in terms of history, beliefs, and liturgical practices to ancient Judaism (we are even more historically accurate than the modern day jews in both liturgy, history, and beliefs, since these modern day jews came MANY centuries after Christ founded the Orthodox Church, and modern jews do not share the same beliefs as ancient jews. Not one Jewish sect today is older than the Orthodox Church). The choice is simple, one of the 45000+ man-made invented "churches" with their own invented forms of theology and practices (traditions of man), or join Christ's one true Church, the Orthodox Church. May God bless, guide, and protect you all on your journey's, Kyrie Eleison ☦☦☦
@@TsarOrthodoxBro_II No, Henry's split from Catholicism was undone by Bloody Mary. It's Elizabeth's split and theological differences that stick. Besides that, any historian will tell you that English Christianity has always had its own character that's rather influenced by Celtic Christianity. William the Conqueror pointed to those differences to justify taking the papal banner during his conquest. Anglicanism is simply a reassertion of the distinctive traditions of English Christianity. And considering your church is in schism because only one bishop from the council of Florence dissented the union with Rome, you've got no room to talk about being the one true church. Even Arius had more supporters in Nicaea.
Baptists being called the Catholics of evangelicals is the craziest thing I’ve heard today. That’s awesome. Really interesting video, RZ, can’t wait for more deep insights into Christianity and its different sides.
I'm not the one you asked but I don't think it is sinful unless the lyrics are sus or something. Mark Stein below makes a point I agree with and forgot to mention. 👇
Justified by faith i say we aint pointin to faith hollerin grace you can bank on they gone say what we say (we say) Sola fide functionally just dont seem like the case point em in the wrong place i say point blank sola fide
I would also point out that a lot of reformed churches these days stick by the teachings of their fore-founders, and not much reasoning occurs. That points back to tradition instead of reasoning
Saying Catholics don’t care about scripture relative to other denomination is the most braindead take I’ve heard on this. Putting Anglican in the middle is just awful.
I would say that Anglican/Episcopalianism is a bit more Catholic than the other protestant denominations....ever since the "Oxford Group" John Keble, John Henry Newman et al......it is definitely High Church.....and perhaps outstrips most Catholic churches in High services.....especially musically.
My favorite part was when the Methodist said 'we should method more,' and then Methodised all over the place.
Except they weren’t methoding hard enough and then the methoding methodists came in and said “it’s methoder methoding time” and methoded all over the place much harder and more methodly
The only way for Methodist to method right is to just "do the method" *all the way*.
Y'know, because otherwise, it's basically just "do the meth"
...I'll see myself out.
I just noticed "Catholic" sounds like "cat + alcoholic"
😂😂😂😂😂😂@@chronicguardian9684
I like to think that in the end they are all like "consider yourselves out-metoded"
I really like learning about the different denominations more than seeing the different denominations fighting
If you want to learn about the only Church that is pre-denominational and founded by Christ himself, then I recommend learning about the Orthodox Church.
Eastern Orthodoxy is the only true, biblical, and unchanged Church founded by Christ. We are the most biblical Church for the following reasons: We were founded by Christ, we existed almost 400 years before WE released the book of our Church known today as the Bible, the apostles were our first bishops, we are the only church that could claim to be completely theologically unchanged (that's why we emphasize tradition so much), the Churches mentioned in the Bible are the same Churches that still exist today in the Orthodox Church today (such as the Church of Ephesus, Corinth, Phillipi, Antioch, Smyrna, etc), and we are the closest religion in the world in terms of history, beliefs, and liturgical practices to ancient Judaism (we are even more historically accurate than the modern day jews in both liturgy, history, and beliefs, since these modern day jews came MANY centuries after Christ founded the Orthodox Church, and modern jews do not share the same beliefs as ancient jews. Not one Jewish sect today is older than the Orthodox Church).
The choice is simple, one of the 45000+ man-made invented "churches" with their own invented forms of theology and practices (traditions of man), or join Christ's one true Church, the Orthodox Church. May God bless, guide, and protect you all on your journey's, Kyrie Eleison ☦☦☦
Same. We need Christian UNITY now more than ever.
by far my favorite theme on this channel. It also helps me understand Christianity better as a recently turned christian.
@@billybrant6818 same
@@TsarOrthodoxBro_IICatholics say the same exact thing, plus orthodoxy has many problems like the Filioque
thank you for making this change on what you’re focusing on. this will help the body of Christ much more.
@@bennyk1559 The body of Christ you say? That would be the Orthodox Church.
Eastern Orthodoxy is the only true, biblical, and unchanged Church founded by Christ. We are the most biblical Church for the following reasons: We were founded by Christ, we existed almost 400 years before WE released the book of our Church known today as the Bible, the apostles were our first bishops, we are the only church that could claim to be completely theologically unchanged (that's why we emphasize tradition so much), the Churches mentioned in the Bible are the same Churches that still exist today in the Orthodox Church today (such as the Church of Ephesus, Corinth, Phillipi, Antioch, Smyrna, etc), and we are the closest religion in the world in terms of history, beliefs, and liturgical practices to ancient Judaism (we are even more historically accurate than the modern day jews in both liturgy, history, and beliefs, since these modern day jews came MANY centuries after Christ founded the Orthodox Church, and modern jews do not share the same beliefs as ancient jews. Not one Jewish sect today is older than the Orthodox Church).
The choice is simple, one of the 45000+ man-made invented "churches" with their own invented forms of theology and practices (traditions of man), or join Christ's one true Church, the Orthodox Church. May God bless, guide, and protect you all on your journey's, Kyrie Eleison ☦☦☦
true
Contemporary worship is objectively good and much better than liturgical worship. Liturgies suck
@@Giant_Bulldognah
@@Giant_BulldogContemporary worship isn't as good as liturgical worship imo, but contemporary worship is better than no worship. And worship style isn't commanded, while Paul encourages hymns and Psalms, David also honored God by writing songs with drums, harps, etc.
Now use that math degree and make this a cube with each axis one of the three points
I got Hinduism. That can't be right.
Dangerous.
A triangular 2D layout forces tradeoffs as the axes are not orthogonal. Not so with a cube, where you can have a point that exceeds another on every axis simultaneously.
If RZ has a cube it will just have Presbyterians at (1,1,1) and Baptists at (0,0,0). (This is unfair on RZ at this point, but I think he needs to weather a few Baptists' jokes at his expense).
Tradition would dictate that we don't have Star Wars themed church services.
So would reason
So would scripture
So would logic
@@Thatoneguy-pu8ty Scripture never forbids it. You have to use the regulative principle of worship to conclude from Scripture that it is wrong.
@@catfinity8799 Are you telling me you cannot find any biblical implications for why star wars themed churches are a bad idea?
As a Eastern Orthodox, there is not a distinction between Tradition and Scripture, Scripture is simply a part of the Tradition
Exactly what I was thinking!
@@stanislawniedzwiecki Amen!
Also, we emphasize tradition so much so that we remain theologically unchanged, besides, Paul told the Orthodox Christians in 2 Thes 3:6:
"But we command you, brethren, in the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, that you withdraw from every brother who walks disorderly and not according to the tradition which he received from us."
May God bless, guide, and protect you all on your journey's, Kyrie Eleison ☦☦☦
That’s how protestan see us. They just stuck with dichotomy such as “either” “or”.
4:42 - Zoomer literally said this exactly.
Still, shouldn't the writings of the apostles, like Saint Paul, have more authority than of other church fathers that came after?
I joke about how Orthodox are the “wizards” of Christianity because of their mystical theology, their awesome beards, drippy robes, incense burning, love of tradition, and the cool staffs.
Their staff are cool…🧙♂️
I was raised charismatic in the 80's (Billy Graham Crusade convert in 84), lived like hell in the 90's, 2000's. Found my way back and into Calvinism 2014-2022 and now on journey into orthodoxy for the past year and will be received as catechumen this coming Sunday. I truly believe I have found my home in 40 yrs as a "christian". That being said, it is a breath of big fresh air that young men like yourself are taking the bull by the horns and spreading the gospel to your generation, so much needed. Keep up the good work young man!!
Went to an 'Anglican' church for the first time today (Presbyterian currently), was lovely, I think tradition is important. If it was in my home town, I would definitely consider moving churches.
Anglican music is sooo good
I'm Episcopalian, like Anglicans, and I love it! It's a great mix of tradition, but slightly more modern than Orthodoxy or Catholicism
@@CountArtha Lutheran Satire mentioned?
My Denomination 🗿
Yeah it was Episcopal, hence the inverted commas on Anglican. I'm currently church of Scotland, I like being involved in my community so I wouldn't want to completely stop going to my local parish, but I was definitely moved by the choir and the Eucharist, although I did require pointers from others in the congregation following the order of service since church of Scotland is less involved typically other than the lord's prayer as standard.
Deism is not even christianity, it’s literally a different religion. If Diesm is considered christian so is Judaism and Islam, I think radical classical philosophy would be a better fit. Radical classicism was following the beliefs of Aristotle and or Plato over the faith itself as those were the most reason based approaches to religion.
Correct. Which is why it's all the way on the left. Without the revelation of scripture and/or the tradition of the church, there is no Christianity.
It's barely even a religion, it's more of a philosophical position
Look at the top left of the screen. He says they're heretics. If there is a real Christian denomination that focuses almost solely on reason, it should be put there instead. Deism is an example of what that looks like, even if they aren't Christian.
He said it is the exception in the top right corner, it was just used as an example to what pure reason without scripture or tradition would be
Unitarianism?
You forgot the fourth point of the triangle. Presentation: for those that base their views on who ever puts on the best show.
That would belong under tradition.
BAULD SPHOTS I CALL YEW GAWNE! - Kenneth COPEland
This would go in two totally opposite directions. Eastern Orthodox and Non-denominational care about Presentation for completely different reasons, right? Or was it the other Orthodox that focuses on mystery and has really traditional, but also showy to some, services.
No, Baptists (non-denoms) are already on here 😉
That’s what experience is at the end
absolutely love your description of the descent toward charismaticism.
Why are you learning about charismaticism from a Presbyterian? That was the least accurate part of the video
@@veganminimalistpastor LOL. No. That was pretty darn accurate.
Experience has been central to methodists, quakers, pentecostals. The wesleyan quadrilater is a bit broader in its focus.
Yes, experience should be the 'fourth pole', making it a (less Trinitarian) cube.
Came here to say this. Quakers would be on that far corner
Christmas and Easter are pagan holidays not commanded anywhere in the Bible. They serve other gods and we're breaking the ten commandments when we celebrate them so we gotta repent. If you read Romans 1:22-27, serving other gods is the reason why we're living in Sodom right now.
Also check Ezekiel 20:19-21, the Sabbath is Saturday morning to Sunday morning and it's the sign between God and his people, so if you don't have that sign God is gonna pour out his wrath upon you in tribulation.
And read Isaiah 66:15-17, people who eat unclean like pork and shellfish are going to be consumed by fire in the tribulation. So repent from eating it
And the Messiah's name isn't Jesus, it's Yeshua, he comes in the Father's name Yehovah. He warned us about another coming in his own name in John 5:42-43 because you don't have the love of God in you (the ten commandments - 1 John 5:2-3).
@@ArgueWDelusionalChristiansthat would be completely valid if we were the Jews but we are just believers in their tradition. We subscribe to a later different covenant.
@gazibizi9504 The new covenant didn't happen yet. Read Jeremiah 31, Hebrews 6:1, Revelation 3:2, and Isaiah 28:12. Yeshua died to refresh Horeb 10Cs as Deuteronlmy 18 says. We are still teaching people to obey 10Cs, and the 2nd exodus didn't even happen yet. We are in the refresh of Horeb
Hearing him say cawfee at the end reminded me how true a New Yorker he is 😄
14:35 it’s the dnd style alignment chart of Christianity, finally.
Yes!!
Catholic and dnd nerd just feeling our lawful paladin roll.
So Baptists are Lawfull Evil and Roman Catholics are Lawful Good?
Lutherans are Chaotic Neutral Barbarian murder hobos?
Wanted to clarify something on the Orthodox position, we believe in taking part in the divine energies not the divine essence. The difference is important.
Wow! As a Dutch Reformed - this sounds kinda New Age to me. But I know you don't mean that 😊
I understand exactly what you mean…one of those is heresy, one of them is fine😂😂😂😂😂
I'm PCA, but my church is very historical and has structure that is based on the Book of Common Prayer. I love Anglicanism too, but there aren't many near me. I use the Book of Common Prayer regularly though.
I don't use the BCP, but how's the building of your church? Is it traditional physically or just liturgically
@@redeemedzoomer6053it's an old historic building on the national registry of historic places. Our church was started around 220 years ago by Scottish immigrants, and the church educated President James K Polk.
We use liturgy also.
@@redeemedzoomer6053 its so obvious you idolize buildings, tradition and liturgies. Remember, Contemparory Worship Music is objectively good and much better than Liturgical worship. Liturgies suck
@@redeemedzoomer6053 You are not a Christian, you're a Pharisee. You only care about the outward appearence of Christianity(buildings, tradition, liturgies etc) instead of what Christianity is really about
@@Giant_Bulldog are you ok bro?
It’s interesting how without guard rails methodists have been basically going off the rails in multiple instances and forms for centuries now.
It’s what happens when you think the Holy Spirit speaks through “culture”. But only modern western progressive culture.
@@AmillennialMillenial Indeed. But this is what happens unless you are really ensuring your culture stays the same. Ala Amish
As a Baptist I appreciate your presentation of our emphasis on scripture 👍 well done
I just hate how he acts like young earth creation is without reason, he needs to debate real young earth creationists to see that it is very probable and has just as much if not more proof than evolution
@@JesusisLord756 he’ll come around 😉
@@JesusisLord756I'm curious about this. I'm a Catholic and I don't believe in YEC. Where could I learn more? What do you believe and why?
@@AB-sw4kb I use answers in Genesis as they have many phds on geology, history, paleontology, etc and they find evidence of the global flood and young creation
@@JesusisLord756young earth creation is without reason. I’m sorry but there’s no way to accept YEC unless you’re delusional. Even with a layman’s understanding of a few different aspects of science and history, you’ll quickly realize how impossible it is
> "I didn't include them because I ran out of space"
Honesty and humility are virtues. Respect!
Don't Lutherans have a whole scholastic tradition. As a Lutheran I seldom encounter the "mystery" part of our theology. It's there but maybe overemphasized. But good video anyway. :)
bro needs to listen to scholastic lutherans and maybe read a lil chemnitz
I think he thinks because Lutherans believe is means is that they don’t believe in reason. Same with not holding to double predestination.
I am an LCMS Lutheran and I feel like the mystery aspect of our faith has always been a big part of the teaching I have gotten, especially when it comes to the Trinity, the Eucharist, predestination and salvation. I think maybe it’s a matter of what your pastor/ other teachers choose to focus on
ngl I realize in this video that I value scripture>reason>experience....I find this very eye-opening. Thanks
Love this shift for you, Zoomer. These were the kinds of videos that helped me a lot earlier last year as a jumping-off point when I was coming into my faith. I watched so many and it really helped me wrap my mind around all the options, so I felt more comfortable self-studying further. I'm going to be baptized next month in the Orthodox church, and I'm not sure you want my thanks for that, but genuinely thank you
both Scripture and the Saints/Church Fathers reject evolution, your priest is mistaken
*I'm glad you made this video,* it reminds me of my transformation from a nobody to good home, $89k biweekly and a good daughter full of love..
Please how ?
Am a born Christian and sometimes I feel so down 😭 of myself because of low finance but I still believe God😞
It's Maria Angelina Alexander doing she's changed my life. A BROKER- like her is what you need.
$356K monthly is something you should feel differently about....
Lovely! I enjoyed it like I enjoy a $100k monthly around the turn!!!
the most important thing is the your dedication to the congregation you attached to.
wdym by that? is not the most important thing that you actually follow and love Jesus and know the things he did for our salvation? I think dedication has to be to God not to man.
I think that this segmentation is only valid at world-wide and north american contexts.
As an argentinian latin american, here there is virtually no main segmentations between Christians. The problem is that since there are no clear segmentations/denominations, there is a big variance in minor beliefs.
However, most non-catholic christians here in Argentina are either Presbisterian-leaning or Baptist-leaning or something in between.
Latin american or more specifically, Argentinian protestantism is generally Presbisterian-Baptist or Lutheran-Baptist or Presbisterian-Lutheran. In essence, they value the basic traditions and sacraments in the bible, but they have a heck lot of emphasis in rigurosity and therefore value strongly both the Scriptures and reason. I'd say they either value them the same or are a bit more scripture leaning.
Anyways, I really enjoy seeing this videos. Huge thanks.
Just wanted to comment that in spanish-speaking countries, this system of classification deviates a very little bit.
In Argentina, the triangular chart would be more like: Presbisterian / Lutheran / Baptist; for the majority of the cases. And Evangelicalism would be in the center of the triangle.
Hope that helps to give insight!
From what I've seen almost all non-Catholic Christians in South America are Pentecostal/Charismatic, not Protestant
@@TomorrowWeLive I said more specifically Argentina, I have no idea about other regions from South America.
There exist also a few Pentecostals and Jehova's Witness too. But Argentina is predomintantly those who are evangelical-leaning (evangelism, presbisterian, baptist, lutheran) and sort of mix between those.
Bowtiemaxxing 💪💪💪 bring back the 1920s carny vibe
Pinstripe suits 👌
@@Thatoneguy-pu8ty Suspenders and a round straw hat when
Get this man a bowler hat! Gentlemanmaxxing is back💪
Been waiting for RZ to talk about Anglicanism for ages. Love this.
God gave us human reasoning skills for a reason. To be skeptical of God's gift of reason is nothing short of ignorant.
While reason is generally good one has to acknowledge that as fallen beings, our reason is also fallen and we shouldn't always lean upon it
all truths is God's truth
@@joshuaparsons887 Yes, we must understand the limits of the human mind.
@MarkStein-b5b Imagine your pet dog trying to understand civilization and all the intricate subsystems that make the entire system work. That's like a highly intelligent human trying to understand exactly what God is.
I appreciate reason as leading me to scripture, the only issue with reason is false presuppositions and sophistry which is why some ought to avoid studies of apologetics. If you’re going to learn these concepts and if you want to be more philosophical in your faith, this isn’t bad, but be careful to not be led astray by some men who seem to be with reason. Though reason is great, whenever I have spiritual struggle, no amount of reason can solve that, that’s why we need scripture and tradition.
Another banger. Probably the best quality of your videos in my opinion is you don’t waste time. Everything is efficient, packed, and gives the right level of information where it’s high-level enough to remember most of it but still specific enough to learn something and know what to google for more info
Just wanted to add that some of the Pentecostal denominations are starting to move back towards being more like the Holiness Movement, especially in the UK, but still calling themselves Pentecostal and staying separated from the Methodists. I guess because they saw where the hyper-charismatic movement went and said 'Nope'.
Honestly I want the Methodist Church to enter the See of Canterbury.
Enter communion and denominationally get recognized into the Anglican Church and have Methodism rejoin Anglicanism.
Methodists who don't like it can join the Nazarene holiness movement.
The schism between Anglicanism and Methodism just shouldn't exist.
Orthodox Tradition is far more complex than simply "we do it because that's the way they did it". There's plenty of room for flexibility within Tradition, but there's also rigidity. It allows room for the Holy Spirit to guide as the years pass, the world changes, and our understanding of God's creation changes. For example, Orthodoxy isn't opposed to a non-literal reading of creation, despite it having been read literally for thousands of years.
Now is the time for all denominations to set aside our differences (obviously not endorsing behaviors such as lgbtq and the like) and unite under our common Savior Jesus Christ. Division inside the Church causes less people to join it.
It's very confusing when you're thinking of going to Church for the first time and there's a million different denominations.
He never mentioned mormons, lds, or jw... We are all united, we just need compassion for brothers and sisters.
(those three I mentioned don't believe in the divinity of Christ and his sacrifice for all sin)
@@robertthifault4080 Yeah it's usually the heretics and false teachers calling for unity, ecumenism
@@midnightblackroses Read the bible. Go to a Baptist church. Understand the scripture and the gospel before being influenced by any other thing.
Just denounce your heresies and come back to Rome
"IS MEANS IS NEIN" is the most lutheran response i ever heard.
I love the Anglican, Methodist and Lutheran traditions.
@@noahtylerpritchett2682 yes~🗿
stop idolizing tradition
@@Giant_Bulldog re read what I said.
"I love"
Not "I wholely phariseeically enforce tradition as binding and as superior to scripture and not allowed to be culturally informative"
I never idolized.
Ah yes, the rich Anglican traditions that began with the humble beginnings of a King throwing a tantrum because the Pope refused to allow him to divorce his wife so that he could marry his mistress... truly inspirational stuff
@@SanctusPaulus1962 look into the since then theologians under the Elizabethan era and onwards.
Blew my mind with the second and third charts, super interesting way of looking at the denominations and their evolutions!
Then Methodists and Pentecostals come in and add another dimension of personal experience
😎
The problem I saw with Methodist is that those often become radical very very fast
This is a very interesting and helpful way to think about denominations and their priorities. As a Baptist, I'm always thinking of ways to pull the modern Baptist culture more toward reason and especially more toward tradition.
Us Lutherans aren't completely unreasonable
We are only somewhat unreasonable.
Indeed. We acknowledge that scripture is the only infallible authority, and we need tradition to interpret it. However, we acknowledge that you do need some reason as well. Reason isn't worthless. It's just not as valuable as scripture or tradition.
gosh I'm glad there's some sense in youtube!! thanks for explaining the differences and the important bosses of this saga, and now I believe it's worth to study about St. Anselm!
Quaker here where you place us on this compass cause we are kind of wacky when compared to other Christian denominations
you still exist ?
I'm not sure you're even on the compass.
@@planteruines5619yes we often get confused with this other group the shakers that split from and they died out because they where all celibate(there’s only about 4 of them left) but we are still around
brother may i have some oats🐖🐖
I started quaking while reading this
This is the absolute clearest explanation I’ve ever seen… thank you so much as an ex-Pentecostal now agnostic trying to understand the broader world of Christian beliefs
Great analysis. I'm comfy in my Anglican middle ground.
It's amazing that while each denomination values one over the other, God can use all three to bring people to him. No matter what we value, God is greater than it all.
To anybody who's reading this, can you please pray for my church such that more guests would come? Unfortunately we've had several pass away the past 2 years and also many children haven't returned via the van ministry. Also, there's a nearby non-denominational church (my neighbor calls it a "mega church WANNA BE") that's rapidly growing according to my friend, which is probably another cause of declining attendance at mine.
Ok
@@kze24 Thanks so much! God bless your Sunday.
This is absolutely brilliant, RZ!
Then again, I am an archaeologist - so I love a good trinary graph
As a Catholic, I would say the church perfectly balances it all, this is an oversimplification. Cool video though God bless.
In the USA the Catholic church is not as high church as the Episcopal churches....
@@daviddavenport9350 sometimes lol
As a Catholic, we are exceptionally high church. After all, we do have the magisterium, Vatican II, liturgical guidelines, etc. Doesn't get any more church than denouncing the Pope causes you to be at risk of ex communicated. The church may allow heretical churches to a degree but not denouncing of the higher hierarchical authority.
Also to defend the faith, St Thomas Aquinas has been reported to have been levitating. So redeemed zoomer needs to not just write off Thomas Aquinas for Eastern Orthodoxy as just some philosophical Catholic, he has been reported with miracles such as St Padre Pio.
@@dontewithdragons don't you think being more accepting of heretical churches than criticism of human is a bit backwards?
As a Methodist, I think the quadrilateral is great but only as long as you consult the four authorities in a specific order. Scripture should be first. If scripture doesn’t answer your specific question, tradition should be used. If that doesn’t work then reason (you could argue that reason should be 2nd). Then experience. Experience should absolutely be dead last. Unfortunately, the UMC has been moving towards valuing experience too much which I believe lead to the liberalism we see now.
I wouldn't say that Reformed has zero focus on tradition. My Reformed church is almost 500 years old, and there is a lot of focus on tradition, but now I realize that it is mostly about outward appearance, style, etc. Not that much in theology, however there are some things even in theology, where tradition has some role. Especially when arguing against neoprotestant groups, which most of the time try to snatch away members of our denomination.
I would also point out that a lot of reformed churches these days stick by the teachings of their fore-founders, and not much reasoning occurs. That points back to tradition.
I would like to point out the fact that there are some holiness denominations like the Church of the Nazarene that use the wesleyan quadrilateral
The only reasonable way to demonstrate continuity in oral tradition is through written records.
@@thealienrobotanthropologist which proves my point. Oral tradition has no reliable manner of preservation except through writing. And the written tradition we have is the Bible. Let's do what it says, no?
@Thatoneguy-pu8ty the Bible tells me to follow the traditions of the Apostles. 1 Corinthians 11:12 and 2 Thessalonians 2:15 come to mind.
@@Thatoneguy-pu8ty looks like holy spirit is weak spirit that can't guide the church based on your perspective. What a blasphemy
@@Thatoneguy-pu8ty you think holy spirit can't preserve the oral tradition? Not so powerful spirit I guess... 😂😂😂
@@redaquila2891 Which is the Bible. I follow the Bible as well.
It’s important to clarify that while the Orthodox Church holds tradition in high regard, it does not place tradition above Scripture. To those who are ignorant, this chart could deceive them. In fact, both are seen as integral and inseparable aspects of the same truth, as you said well. Tradition includes the lived experience of the Church-its liturgies, councils, and teachings handed down from the apostles-and serves as a guide to understanding and applying Scripture.
St. Basil the Great, one of the early Church Fathers, emphasized that unwritten traditions are valuable precisely because they clarify how Scripture is to be understood. He wrote, "Of the beliefs and practices...we possess some from written teaching and others we have received delivered to us in mystery from the tradition of the apostles". This illustrates that Scripture and tradition work together to preserve the faith.
Orthodox theology does not treat tradition as a set of mere customs or practices. It views Holy Tradition as the life of the Holy Spirit in the Church. As Father John Meyendorff explains, “Tradition is not a substitute for Scripture, but rather a necessary instrument for its interpretation.” The two together form a coherent witness to God’s revelation throughout history.
The early Church relied heavily on oral tradition before the New Testament was fully written and canonized. This is why Tradition, including the writings of the Church Fathers, is not considered a secondary source, but part of the full deposit of faith that helps believers interpret Scripture accurately and faithfully, in line with the apostles' teachings.
Therefore, it’s not a matter of valuing tradition over Scripture, but rather understanding both as complementary. They both point to the same truth, with the ultimate authority being Christ Himself, the Word of God incarnate. The Orthodox Church sees itself as the guardian of this apostolic faith, preserving both Scripture and the sacred tradition that helps to interpret it correctly.
Thank you for your effort and videos, and I wish you well with the upcoming Christmas season and the chaos of the storms hitting America, and the election season.
Thats actually awfully similar to the Catholic position. This graph rly doesn't do us justice. Just because we hold Sacred Tradition in much higher regard does not mean we hold Scripture in lower regard. The two are very closely linked together and are almost inseparable
8:33 technically true, but it's more complicated than that. The lutheran view on predestination is a middle way between calvinism and arminanism. We believe in something called "monergistic salvation - synergistic damnation". If we are saved it's because of god alone, he predestined us. In that way we agree with Calvinism. But if we are damned it's "our own damned fault". In that way we agree with Arminianism. How that works together is a mystery. We simply take what's written in the Bible and run with it. God knows everything and predestined us, but we are responsible for our own sin and thus if we get damned we are to blame ourselves. Just wanted to clarify that, since oftentimes, Calvinists will accuse us of being Arminians, and arminians will accuse us of being calvinists :D
One time as a kid I was in Lutheran confirmation class and my dad, the pastor, was teaching us about Calvinism vs. Arminianism, and my dad asked which one was correct, and I said Arminianism because it sounded better than Calvinism. My dad then made a joke that he was raising a heretic in his own house and explained how we were in the middle of Arminianism and Calvinism.
There have actually been a bunch of intra-Lutheran controversies. Some other Lutheran groups accused the LCMS of being to Calvinist a couple hundred years ago. Luther looks pretty different on this sort of thing compared to some of the Lutherans a century later. So there isn't quite one Lutheran view, there are a few.
(Take with a grain of salt: I'm not Lutheran.)
11:58 don't worry about it, it also doesn't make sense to us catholics. Fr. James Martin is... An interesting fellow
Let's go a step further. What could be the Catholicism, the Orthodoxy and the Protestantism of Nondenominalism?
Catholicism: dispensational Bible Churches
Orthodoxy: Hyper-charismatic churches
Protestantism: doing house church bible study and not going to church
@@redeemedzoomer6053 Doesn't sound wrong 👍
As a Baptist, I can say the reason I put so much emphasis on scripture over the others is because scripture is the only one that is divine.
Tradition and reason are both gifts from God. They are beautiful and I love them but, like any gift from God, they have the potential to be turned towards evil. The Word, while it can be abused, cannot be corrupted.
While I agree with you, I must say that 2 Thessalonians 2:15 should be kept in mind here. This is why one should be high church, such as a lutheran or an anglican. I feel like low church walks away from what the early church was.
Why should I believe that the books of scripture are divinrly inspired? What of Hebrews wasn't really wrotten by an Apostle, for example?
Thats just wrong. Apostolic Tradition is also divine, as its literally the teachings of Christ passed through the Apostles. This was this very tradition by the way that ended up being written down and eventually compiled as the NT.
this graph should be titled "what a presbyterian thinks other denominations think about authority"
Orthodox and Baptists in the comments at least seem to find it accurate
Obviously he would have very different moral conclusions compared to someone of another denomination. But as long as he is not making moral conclusions and is speaking based off research (such as creeds and church fathers), his presentation is relatively accurate.
Yeah, its not very accurate. Thats the problem with these graphs, they are major oversimplifications. Catholicism should be in the middle though
For the Wesleyan Quadrilateral, I've always heard it stressed that scripture takes precedence over all the other quadrants. Although tradition, reason, and personal experience are important, you always need to refer back to scripture to make sure it is consistent with the word of God. I think a lot of more liberal Christian, especially those in the UMC, but also in other traditions very much elevate personal experience over all else, when there needs to be a strict hierarchy with scripture at the top.
I just got back from my PCA church.
Exceptional! I discovered you because of Matthew Everhard. I love to see a young man so committed to orthodoxy. FYI our college-age daughter is attending a PCUSA church that is traditional not liberal!
Happy World Communion Day!!!!
Every Lutheran's favorite way to receive assurance of salvation by eating and drinking Jesus's literal physical body and blood!
I am subscribing to your channel. I am from a different Church background, but as I am studying to be licensed in Ministry, I have found quite a few of your videos helpful. Thank you for doing your videos and I am eager for more. God bless and Jesus and the Spirit continue to guide you as well.
i think the problem with this graph is that these categories are not mutually exclusive, but if you are to put them in a triangle they are.
@MarkStein-b5berm actually, it's the opposite, increasing one increases the other
@MarkStein-b5b I would strongly disagree. if that is correct then God’s nature is contradictory because He is maximally loving and just.
@MarkStein-b5b God found a way to be both all loving and all just by having Jesus take our punishment
@MarkStein-b5b Love and justice are not exclusive.
Bro, that last slide deserves its own broadcast 😊
I like Baptists doctrine in theory, (I go to a baptist church) but the way it's applied really bothers me with the prevalence of anti-intellectualism, ugly churches, and pre-trib eschatology. Or worse, being so literal on the text that the context of that text is completely ignored🙃
you can may be do an organ of a more intellectual dénomination in order to have the best of both worlds (become franciscan monk )
real bro. European baptists usually avoid some of these problems
Get involved in the church more and help bring it back to tradition!
@@ethantercier6057 Well this is the rub. I'm involved in the music, and our style is more contemporary (not fog-machine concerts though) with some hymns. I love using my skills as a drummer to make a joyful noise for The Lord, and I fear losing that. :')
@@planteruines5619 I try, but it's tiring. :')
As someone in a non-denom now, that last graph is spot on. Our roots are a mix of Baptist and Pentecostal, started by someone breaking away from their traditional church and accidently creating a new tradition that copies the other ones.
Yes. A non-denominational Christian would say that theology isn't important. As long as you accept Jesus as your lord and savior, you're good. Unfortunately, this violates 1 Corinthians 1:10. Paul says we are to be of unified mind. We are not to divide the church. How can we be of unified mind if we don't even accept the same doctrines?
@@legacyandlegend They wouldn't say theology as a whole is unimportant, but they WOULD say "major on the majors, minor on the minors", with many theological debates being relegated to "minors" if it isn't about the identity and reality of Christ. Our church doesn't fall hard on many eschatology positions, but they do affirm the reality of Christ's return, if that makes sense.
Ironically, I think the leadership see this as being "in the interest of being a unified mind". They DO affirm a single, holy, catholic "Big C" Church, despite the relaxed theological acquiescence.
Catholics offended that they aren't in the center in very papal supremacy like fashion, Baptists rejoicing being on the fringe in the lonely Bible corner, Orthodox hate the triangle rejecting it like the new filioque, and Anglicans just chillin like 😎 resting in neutrality. This feels...pretty much how everyone is usually but as reactions lol.
@@quadrga yep
@@quadrga 😂💯
Then there's those of us who didn't make the list at all quietly pouting 😂
The Catholic position is very much misrepresented though. The Church has the perfect balance of all 3
Different denominations get thier beliefs from making thier own assuption about what scripture says. What biases they have as a person, what feels godd to the individual (whether its true or not), or a few people yet some inspiration from God that they can handle, and are guided in part to establish certain denominations for the uplifting of people. All these options im sure are inspired in some way to motivate people to do good (hopefully). I find ive done a bit of each of these things in my life, but dont do to much unless i receive a direct answer to my prayers, as its the only way to be sure of something. I wish all a safe journey, and hopefully you will experience some happiness in this mortal realm.
I'm a girl who wants to be a christian and I can't decide whether I want to be presbyterian, anglican or lutheran
@@NapalmMan69 I'm a TRANS girl, they would decapitate me as soon as they knew about my past, plus, I don't consider Islam historically accurate, the crucifixion of Jesus is accepted by every expert on the historical Jesus for example
@@Dilophosaurus-p4e let me know what you decide if you don't mind Hun
@@nataliamundell6266 do you mean what denomination I decide?
Just go to church. No shame in being undecided on certain things. These issues are complex!
@@Dilophosaurus-p4e yes
Great video. I do want to mention one thing as a Pentecostal- no Christian tradition is an island. For example, there are multiple Pentecostal denominations around the world that are influenced by different theologies and traditions. AoG is influenced more by baptist and evangelical theology, while COGIC is more influenced by the Holiness Movement. Non-Pentecostal Charismatics (Charismatic Catholics, Baptists, Anglicans etc.) have roots in the Charismatic movement. The thing that unites us is Baptism in the Holy Spirit, something that I believe combines scripture, tradition, reason and experience.
2:00 not yet
I don't know which coffee you use, but this work was great! I'll share with friends rn
He is Jewish like Trent Horn and Michael Lofton.
Proud to be an Anglican 💪
Why don't You be a Catholic?
Same~🗿
Anglican? Wasn’t that founded by a king who wanted a divorce 😂
@@OVOFloyd immediately invalidated yourself with this comment
@@OVOFloyd look up Thomas Cramer
as a former baptist, I would add that the Baptist Church is not opposed or suspicious of using reason in faith, but suspicious of trying to say that reason is separate from the Bible. Baptists believe that all accurate uses of Reason will end up supporting the Bible 100%. Baptist believe reason is in service to the Bible, and a that reason is derived from the Bible, so Baptists end up using a lot of of reason to defend their views, because of course the Bible is logical, its the Bible! Hope that makes sense!
Love your videos, btw! Keep up the good work!
Catholicism is the whole triangle.
This was absolutely fantastic!
Considering the note, I think I understand your placement of Catholics. Though I do think they're probably closer to Anglicans, but whatever.
They are!
It should be in the middle. Tradition is not more important than Scripture, they are closely linked and considered equal.
Based Anglicanism balancing reason, scripture, and tradition perfectly
You're a very charismatic guy. I'm a tengrist but enjoy ur videos
Bro is stuck in 7 th century Central Asia
@@AmirSatt real
Repent you pagan
Bros gonna make a great baptist 🗿🗿🗿🗿
Now I'm imagining the Holy Spirit descending in the form of a goose.
Because of Redeemed Zoomer, I actually became an eastern orthodox christian. What a plot twist!
Which one? Greek? Russian? Ukrainian? Serbian? Coptic? Romanian?
Anglicans keep winning 😎
Yes~🗿
bring the beard back
Hey bro
@@Young_Anglican Not really. Who said the middle is the right place to be?
@jdotoz who said being too far one way or the other was right?.
This was a pretty well balanced review of the starting presuppositions of Christian denominations.
As an Orthodox Christian I would say your overall assessment of our priorities is accurate, but perhaps misses some of the nuance that only a practitioner would understand.
We believe that the words of God have the highest authority, and that they have been conveyed to us via providential preservation through human agents (AKA tradition). We believe that the highest authority of our tradition is the canon of scripture.
This is clearly the case otherwise Orthodoxy would have long devolved into separate schools of thought based on the traditions of different saints just like Sunni Islam. To understand the scripture we believe one must hold to the catholic traditions of the Church (believed by all orthodox Christians everywhere from the beginning), and that beyond that further understanding must be gained via experience in the Divine Liturgy and prayer, and lastly through attempts to use human reason to explain God’s word.
You pretty much explained as much about our priorities but I think you fail to appreciate that we hold scripture as the highest tradition and that we have used scripture to correct materially false traditions in the past hence why Orthodoxy doesn’t have multiple parallel schools of thought within it such as Sunni Islam does.
No offense but that tie looks stupid.
His tie may indeed be stupid, but at the end of the day, the Orthodox Church is the true Church.
Eastern Orthodoxy is the only true, biblical, and unchanged Church founded by Christ. We are the most biblical Church for the following reasons: We were founded by Christ, we existed almost 400 years before WE released the book of our Church known today as the Bible, the apostles were our first bishops, we are the only church that could claim to be completely theologically unchanged (that's why we emphasize tradition so much), the Churches mentioned in the Bible are the same Churches that still exist today in the Orthodox Church today (such as the Church of Ephesus, Corinth, Phillipi, Antioch, Smyrna, etc), and we are the closest religion in the world in terms of history, beliefs, and liturgical practices to ancient Judaism (we are even more historically accurate than the modern day jews in both liturgy, history, and beliefs, since these modern day jews came MANY centuries after Christ founded the Orthodox Church, and modern jews do not share the same beliefs as ancient jews. Not one Jewish sect today is older than the Orthodox Church).
The choice is simple, one of the 45000+ man-made invented "churches" with their own invented forms of theology and practices (traditions of man), or join Christ's one true Church, the Orthodox Church. May God bless, guide, and protect you all on your journey's, Kyrie Eleison ☦☦☦
@@TsarOrthodoxBro_II You are telling this to an Atheist.
Yeah, it does. Bowties should only be worn with a suit, and ideally with a tuxedo
That was an excellent video. I would add a 3d axis to ask to this, going from those who defend God's grace and those who defend God's justice. I feel all denominations fit on this taut line as well.
My personal summarisation of Orthodoxy:
Eastern Orthodoxy is the only true, biblical, and unchanged Church founded by Christ. We are the most biblical Church for the following reasons: We were founded by Christ, we existed almost 400 years before WE released the book of our Church known today as the Bible, the apostles were our first bishops, we are the only church that can claim to be completely theologically unchanged (that's why we emphasize tradition so much), the Churches mentioned in the Bible are the same Churches that still exist today in the Orthodox Church today (such as the Church of Ephesus, Corinth, Phillipi, Antioch, Smyrna, etc), and we are the closest religion in the world in terms of history, beliefs, and liturgical practices to anicent Judaism (we are even more historically accurate than the modern day jews in both liturgy, history, and beliefs - not one Jewish sect today is older than the Orthodox Church).
Paul told the Orthodox Christians in 2 Thes 3:6:
"But we command you, brethren, in the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, that you withdraw from every brother who walks disorderly and not according to the tradition which he received from us."
May God bless, guide, and protect you all on your journey's, Kyrie Eleison ☦☦☦
I had no idea that the Orthodox Church had proselytizing zealots. How many times are you going to copy-paste this same screed?
@@byrondickens
Quite a few times. If spreading Orthodoxy as much as I can to the heterodox makes me a proselytizing zealot then I'll gladly accept that.
The truth of Orthodoxy is above anyone's "feelings"; better to be loved with the truth than a lie. Christ said we'd be persecuted for our faith. Besides, Paul told the Orthodox Christians in 2 Thes 3:6:
"But we command you, brethren, in the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, that you withdraw from every brother who walks disorderly and not according to the tradition which he received from us."
@@TsarOrthodoxBro_II Are you British?
@@Thatoneguy-pu8ty lol, why ?
@@TsarOrthodoxBro_II "summarisation" in the US we replace the s with a z. I guess the better question would have been are you european?
❤ Byzantine Catholic ❤ Thanks Zoomed for giving us love. I joined Melkite Greek Catholic Church because I want to serve as a missionary to Palestine 🇵🇸🇻🇦🕊️ I am not trying to Larp doing this with humility but I did feel called out 😂 Please 🙏 for me. Know of my prayers for you.
😢
Catholicism is higher on tradition and further right on scripture we literally recite the Bible every mass
They won't give us our credit
As do the Anglicans/Episcopalians....there is always an Old testament reading, and Epistle, and a Gospel at every liturgy....that part of the service is called "The Lessons"
@daviddavenport9350 if they stuck to tradition, they'd still be Catholic, no offense, but the transition of the anglican church from Catholic to protestant is completely undefensible
@@somethingsupercrunchy3988 It's quite defensible.
@@BernardinusDeMoor King Henry VIII split from the Catholic Church because he had a temper tantrum when the Pope didn't allow him to divorce his wife so he could marry his mistress. That was literally the entire reason for the schism. It had nothing to do with theological disagreements whatsoever.
How is that defensible?
This seems like a really good graph actually, given the caveat that all denominations value all of it. I haven’t watched the video but I can tell it should be good and balanced.
Common Anglican W.
Yes~🗿
Common Anglican L. Anglicanism was founded in 1534 when King Henry couldn't get a divorce. The Eastern Orthodox Church was founded by Christ in 33 A.D. Common Orthodox W.
Eastern Orthodoxy is the only true, biblical, and unchanged Church founded by Christ. We are the most biblical Church for the following reasons: We were founded by Christ, we existed almost 400 years before WE released the book of our Church known today as the Bible, the apostles were our first bishops, we are the only church that could claim to be completely theologically unchanged (that's why we emphasize tradition so much), the Churches mentioned in the Bible are the same Churches that still exist today in the Orthodox Church today (such as the Church of Ephesus, Corinth, Phillipi, Antioch, Smyrna, etc), and we are the closest religion in the world in terms of history, beliefs, and liturgical practices to ancient Judaism (we are even more historically accurate than the modern day jews in both liturgy, history, and beliefs, since these modern day jews came MANY centuries after Christ founded the Orthodox Church, and modern jews do not share the same beliefs as ancient jews. Not one Jewish sect today is older than the Orthodox Church).
The choice is simple, one of the 45000+ man-made invented "churches" with their own invented forms of theology and practices (traditions of man), or join Christ's one true Church, the Orthodox Church. May God bless, guide, and protect you all on your journey's, Kyrie Eleison ☦☦☦
@@TsarOrthodoxBro_II Hater alert
@@alfieingrouille1528
Not a hater, just a truth teller 💪🙏
@@TsarOrthodoxBro_II No, Henry's split from Catholicism was undone by Bloody Mary. It's Elizabeth's split and theological differences that stick.
Besides that, any historian will tell you that English Christianity has always had its own character that's rather influenced by Celtic Christianity. William the Conqueror pointed to those differences to justify taking the papal banner during his conquest. Anglicanism is simply a reassertion of the distinctive traditions of English Christianity.
And considering your church is in schism because only one bishop from the council of Florence dissented the union with Rome, you've got no room to talk about being the one true church. Even Arius had more supporters in Nicaea.
Baptists being called the Catholics of evangelicals is the craziest thing I’ve heard today. That’s awesome. Really interesting video, RZ, can’t wait for more deep insights into Christianity and its different sides.
Crazy, but as a Baptist, I approve.
Bro do a video on anglicanism like you did on orthodxy
As someone who grew up in a Holiness Church as I can say the chasing spiritual highs is true.
hey zoomer. i was wondering your thoughts on if it is sinful to listen to rap, make beats, and rap because i do that
I'm not the one you asked but I don't think it is sinful unless the lyrics are sus or something.
Mark Stein below makes a point I agree with and forgot to mention. 👇
it's not , the only things that could be sinful are the words
Justified by faith
i say we aint pointin to faith
hollerin grace
you can bank on they gone say what we say
(we say) Sola fide
functionally just dont seem like the case
point em in the wrong place
i say point blank sola fide
sola fides formata
@@planteruines5619 when will your faith be formed enough
I would also point out that a lot of reformed churches these days stick by the teachings of their fore-founders, and not much reasoning occurs. That points back to tradition instead of reasoning
Catholic should be higher than Orthodox on the traditon scale. We still follow the bishop of Rome.
You dont follow most of the ecumenical canons including the 7th ecumenical council
The Donation of Constantine was proven fake like 600 years ago.
You're doing the job well. UP/DOWN/LEFT/RIGHT..KEEP GOING.
Not first.
Sad 🤭
12:13 This is a misrepresentation of the Wesleyan Quadrilateral. Experience is not limitted to personal experience. It's mostly historical experience.
Saying Catholics don’t care about scripture relative to other denomination is the most braindead take I’ve heard on this. Putting Anglican in the middle is just awful.
The middle is exactly where Anglicanism is. Via Media.
Middle is litterally the perfect place for Anglicanism
@@byrondickensthank you
I would say that Anglican/Episcopalianism is a bit more Catholic than the other protestant denominations....ever since the "Oxford Group" John Keble, John Henry Newman et al......it is definitely High Church.....and perhaps outstrips most Catholic churches in High services.....especially musically.
RCs don't care if something is biblical or not. They bind it on the conscience regardless. Anglicans rightly belong in the middle. They're via media.
You could extend the final graphic to another level and have IFB on the left and hyper-charismatics on the right