This is the most in-depth review I've watched on any espresso machine, thank you Marc! I've had the R Nine One on my wish list for a couple years now and I'm about to order one soon. I'm coming from a Viebemme Dumobar that served me well for almost 6 years before the pump stopped working. I had to research a lot of material and had many attempts and wasted a lot of coffee beans before I was able to consistently pull good shots. If I had come across some of the videos you have made, it would have saved me a lot of frustration and flattened out the learning curve a little. :)
4:13 can you fit a 20 grams basket in the double spout portafilter of the R9? I am thinking to use such a machine in our family bakery for running max 55-60 espressos per day, somehow amateur- commercial use 😅
Hi Kats, You may be able to fit 20g in the filter basket which ships with machine. If not, you can pick up a precision basket like this that will: www.wholelattelove.com/products/baristapro-20g-nanotech-precision-portafilter-basket
@@Wholelattelovepage of course I already own a 20grams precision basket by IMS. I was only wondering if the double spot which I prefer to use has any limitation on basket size , comparing with the naked portafilter that hasn't
@@Kats072307 The 20g should fit. It's been awhile, and I don't have a unit nearby to confirm but I believe the machine may ship with an IMS triple competition basket
The amount of thoughts and preparation that go into this video is impressive. Thanks for such details and great job with the video! Curious - would you care to review the la marzocco levaX?
I’ve had two of these £4.5k machines. After my initial disappointment with the first brand new machine that had software issues meaning the profiles just didn’t work and some of the functions didn’t work at all, it was returned and refunded by Machina. I then purchased a brand new machine from Pro Espresso. The service has been faultless but the machine has had problems over the 9 months I’ve had it. I’ve had two leaks. One that needed a new seal. Also has had a faulty pressure gauge that had to be replaced. This week I started to get some odd noises with the pump and this morning it’s not working at all - the pressure will just not increase. The screen turns itself off and resets halfway through the serve and no pressure at all. It’s now just making the noise and doing odd things with pressure. I think I’ve had it with this machine. For nearly 5k I expected reliability. It’s a bit embarrassing to be honest. It was my 50th birthday present so I look After it and make probably 1/2 coffees a day max. From the experience of two brand new machines, the rocket r-nine one is just not reliable.
I'm getting to grips with my own R9 One. I notice the inline filter and ends of the silicone tube connected to it have turned a sort of black. THe machine was sitting a really long time in a location so I wonder if that's biofilm and I should replace the filter... Guess it's only about AU$15. I really appreciate the run down of the machine - it's a rats nest of cabling and tube! I just finished insulating the boilers and that was a pain to do without stripping the machine down. I hope it yields similar benefit as it did on my old rocket giotto (about 30% less "on" time for element).
1.9 liters brew boiler seems to be overkill for home users. Usually a smaller boiler is used for prociumers machines. If you make 2-4 cups a day you will get lot of reheated water that will effect the taste. I was looking for a profile machine and so far thinking of VBM Domabar super electronic. What do you think is the downside besides e61 group?
Hi Val, If you're interested in profiling machines and you're at the level of the R Nine One but want a smaller boiler I'd take a look at the Dalla Corte Mina. It's a flow profiling machine with incredibly precise control of flow rates and with the smaller boiler over group design brew temps are accurate and quick to change. Learn more about the DC Mina here including videos: www.wholelattelove.com/products/dalla-corte-mina-espresso-machine-110v-white Marc
My pressure sensor with the Din plug in the back of it is plumbed into a location below the OPV on the tank side of the machine instead of out of the top of the group (mine has a bolt closing that off). I wonder if this is just a configuration change for build as mine is much newer than this video.
Always enjoy watching your show! This is another dream machine! All looks cool, except... The on/off switch for programed mode doesn't feel natural; the profile list, although serves the purpose, looks really bad. A graphical interface is really the way to go. I think it is silly for manufactures to put a silly/costly screen like that rather than leverage smart phone and tablet, witch provides a free graphical interface, and much powerful and friendly UI capability.
Hi O, Well, the huge difference is the Pro 800 is a manual lever machine so any profiling you do is manually controlled by restricting the lever as spring tension causes it to rise. Marc
Can the hot water arm be articulated left/right/up/down at all? It looks as though its positioned a little low for tall cups/mugs. How is the clearance?
@whole Latte Love Marc, does the auto shot recorder end the shot or must you switch off manually at the lever? Also I notice you push the paddle off then bring it back a fraction.... why do that second move not just turn it off?
Hello Marc, thanks a lot for you amazing videos. I own a Rocket R Nine One coffee machine and the video you made it's very helpful ! If it is possible for you, maybe one day, could you make a video of the inside of the machine and talk a bit about the gear pump?? And also, i would like to better know are the boilers insulated and made of stainless steel? Thank you a lot in advance
Hi Marc, what a really great review you made here. just wanted to ask. How do you reckon the r9v? and why can't i find the review anywhere in youtube? Have you ever tried it? thanks for your kind response Marc!
Amazing machine and I am really up for profiling, since the flavour you obtain is far superior. What bothers me with the R Nine One is that the User Interface does not seem to be thought through to the end: 1. The functional elements and the software design of the interface looks cluttered and does not reflect the elegance of the rest of the machine. It has the look and feel of a UI of a 3D printer rather. 2. It’s apparently not possible to get any software updates from Rocket. At least I did not find a hint to that possibility anywhere. Meaning to change software you would have to change the entire machine. 3. The manual profiling and recording option is great - but having only one a slot for saving the profile without having the opportunity to transfer it to the A-D slots reduces the whole idea to a kind of click bait/buy bait. Because this means that I have to overwrite it each time I use different coffee beans - or I have to write it down and then program it by hand into the A-D profiles. Since there is no possibility for software update the machine’s value is cut down considerably once a machine with same hardware but improved software comes to the market. 4. The programming function (A-D) does not allow for proper programming of a linear decrease of the flow towards the end. It can only be programmed in steps. And only a total of five steps is available. That’s probably the reason why it’s not possible to transfer the recorded profile to the A-D slots. It’s structurally a different kind of data. 5. It should have a web-server like any router for software update and more convenient programming. Contrary to some iOS Apps that Rocket does not seem to update, this would be a timeless way to keep your machine in order. Are there any announcements from Rocket for an updated version of the R Nine One ?
Hi FK, Thanks for sharing your thoughts on the R Nine One. I have no information from Rocket Espresso on updates to the machine. If you're really up for profiling you might have a look at the flow profiling Dalla Corte Mina - it has many of the features you desire: www.wholelattelove.com/products/dalla-corte-mina-110v Marc
@@Wholelattelovepage Thanks for the swift reply. I will have a look - I didn’t notice that one yet. I like the simple Profitec solution - but, as you point out in the video, reproducibility would be nice to have indeed. To separate the “dialing in” intellectual act from “just making coffee” with the respective programmed recipe/profile would be quite good. Thanks for all your excellent videos ! I learned a lot from them and they are really fun to watch ! It’s also nice that you manage to pinpoint the actual questions arising in each case !
That’s exactly what I was thinking. Really the only things I see the extra money gives you is the ability of repeatable pulls due to the computers saving function and boilers. The Rocket brew boiler is over twice the size at 1.9L while the ECM is 0.7L and the steam boiler on the Rocket is almost twice the size at 3.7L and the ECM being 2.0L. Having larger boilers results in them having larger elements as well, but if the ECM can steam and brew just as well who cares.
Can the R9 ONE do a "blooming" shot? Like, you can start the flow with a low-pressure pre-infusion, and then STOP the flow for a few seconds to let the coffee "bloom" and then restart the flow and finish it however you'd like? Thanks!
Hi CR, Yes it can. One can set a low pressure pre-infusion, set a next step in the process to zero pressure for a time then increase pressure. Can do the same using the manual control on the group.
Hi f, Thanks for the comment. Steam boiler is larger than in Synchronika or GS3. Steam tips make a huge difference. Did some testing on a Pro 700 (identical boiler and steam pressure to Synchronika) a couple weeks ago. It was ~20 seconds to take 6oz milk to 140F with the stock tip. On the R Nine One it was ~14 seconds. If you saw the section in this vid with the accessory tip tests the Rocket 3 and 4 hole tips did it in ~11 seconds. The smaller diameter 2 hole tip was 23 seconds. Working pressure does not tell the whole story. Marc
Can you save star last manual profile if you want to a or b c d e? Or you have to write it manual on desired profile position? 2nd can you share profiles with other r9 users i.e. export / import them ?
Kurt Hi, thanks for the questions. Can only save manual profile to star position. No electronic method of sharing profiles. You’d need to write it down. Marc
So if I go with a ecm syncronika, plumbed to a bwt water filtration system, how often does the machine or pre-infuse valve need replaced or refurbished?
Hi william, Thanks for the question. Assuming you are referring to the E61 mushroom valve? With proper use of the BWT filter system no scale should build up on the valve. Additionally ECM uses a stainless steel mushroom while some manufacturers use chrome plated mushrooms. With that, replacement should never be required. Marc
@@Wholelattelovepage An online forum says that the handle for the pre-infuse on the ECM synchronika, in some cases, doesn't turn a full 360° and or one has to be careful when handling it, as to not burn one's fingers. Is this really something to be concerned with?
@@JasonAlexzander1q47 Hi - I've had the synchronika now for about nine months now. There is an adjustment on the control which will change how much range it will turn. It is a little tight and if you aren't paying attention you could burn your fingers. The flow control is an add on to the synchronika as opposed to being designed that way from the get go. If I were buying today I would look much more at the Lelit - you could save some money - or take the money and move it into your grinder and I think have a better set up for the same money.
Hi Austen, For that purpose I'd take a look at the Dalla Corte Mina: www.wholelattelove.com/products/dalla-corte-mina-110v It's a true commercial machine. Marc
Hello Marc, nice to see you healthy again. What an impressive review! Thank you, that was definitely a lot of work. Nicely structured. I believe no one else could make such a deep going review like you guys. Athletes just have more stamina in every way ;=) That you keep track with all the inner cable mess. Also nice that you have tested the various steam tips, thx alot for that interesting extra work. I have one small question: the boilers are not isolated like at ECM / Profitec. How hot get the boilers from the outside? I had seen that some silicone tubes lie directly on the boiler. Will they not become porous over time?
Hi Bob, See you found the video! Thanks for the kind comment. Feeling much better - the sinuses have cleared up! Brew boiler runs ~200F/93C, service/steam boiler runs 264F/129C. Silicone rubber is generally non-reactive, stable, and resistant to extreme environments and temperatures from -67 °F to 572 °F (-55 °C to 300 °C) while still maintaining its useful properties. We've serviced 1000's of machines with silicone tubing and have never had one melt, crack, etc. It's a very resilient material! In espresso machines generally only used for very low or no pressure lines. Marc
Hi JD, Thanks for the question. About 30 minutes to complete warm up. It does have 2 automatic turn-on/off times per day. So if using about the the same time everyday you can set it to turn on automatically and be ready for use when you are! Marc
Hi Mark, i love your video very informative. I'm one of the rocket espresso owner. I have Something i want to ask you about the Rocket machine. Did you guys realize we need to grind finer on the rocket machine? I've been using the mozzafiato almost two years and it was amazing machine. But the only think that i concern was the extraction, i need to grind very fine for good extraction and i always use nakedportal. When i go a little bit course and the extraction will be very fast. Hope you can share with me what do i do wrong or do you have any tips on it? Thank mark
Hi OA, Thanks for the question. Slightly acidic should be okay. Normal range for drinking water is pH 6.5 to 8.5. It is tough to make a blanket statement as other water parameters like alkalinity, mineral content, etc play a role as well. If pH is below 6.5 it may be best to treat the water to reduce acidity/increase pH - Soda ash (sodium carbonate) and sodium hydroxide raise the pH of water to near neutral when injected into a water system. Marc
Hi OA, Just read back my initial comment and edited it to say "Slightly acidic should be okay". Rest stays the same. I'm comfortable with pH 6.5 (slightly acidic) in stainless steel. Marc
whats the output level of this machine ?! i know it's probably not nfs approved but can it support the work flow of a low volume cafe , like gs3 or linea mini ?!
Hi AB, Thanks for the comment. R Nine One price is below a GS3 MP. As I mentioned in the video capabilities similar to a Strada EP without the $15K price tag!
@@drashadibudi That's an amazing price! Like unbelievable amazing. A GS3 MP lists around $7,500. Last single group Strada EP I found was $15K list. 2 group Strada EPs run well above $20K.
@@Wholelattelovepage Really? Woow, now I feel so glad I bought it. No wonder not many reviews on it. I only can make simple video like this. I am bad on reviewing: th-cam.com/video/aHOon4RVEsk/w-d-xo.html
Hi Marc, espresso nubie here. I have a question, what is the difference between R Nine One Pressure Profiling with Rocket Appartamento + flow control and gauge setup? Do they all basically do the same pressure profile only that one is automatic and the other is not? Thank you. Great review as usual!
Hi gw, Thanks for the question. The R Nine One uses pressure. Flow control uses flow rates with little concern for pressure. Pressure and flow are related but not one in the same. For instance if you were using a pressure profile and then changed your grind to coarser the flow rate will be much higher with the coarser grind. But do the same when using flow control and the flow rate stays the same even with the coarser grind. I've become more of an advocate for flow control over the past couple of years. Some research has shown when all else is equal there little difference in the extraction of solids from the grind in a range of 6-10 bar of brew pressure. With flow it's a different story as it's flow through the grind which removes the solids to your cup. Hope that helps! Marc
@@Wholelattelovepage Hi, so your preference would be a machine that does flow control instead of pressure profiling? I've never had an espresso shot from either or seen either one in person, but being able to control more parameters is something I think I will like. If I can get great results from control of either flow or pressure, does it make more sense to buy a high end machine that does flow control instead since they are about $3K less?
@@DucDNA Machines with flow control of the E61 group are much less complex than pressure profiling machines like this Rocket and less $$. Less complexity means fewer potential problems. If you have not seen, here's a video demoing two very simple flow profiles on the beautiful ECM Synchronika: th-cam.com/video/a-QAOo8Vg5A/w-d-xo.html My personal preference is controlling flow over pressure. Marc
I would like to see an honest review between the build quality of the gs 3 and the R nine one. After reviewing multiple video's the GS 3 looks like they take a great deal of pride in building that machine vs the rocket that looks pieced together like an old GM car.
Hi Jim, Thanks for the request. I don't totally agree with the old GM car analogy - except... Aesthetics are subjective and there's no doubt the GS3 is pretty. We've had a GS3 in the staff lounge for a couple months and now the R-Nine One. Guess why the GS3 isn't there anymore. It broke down and had to be serviced. Much like the Rochester Quadrajet carbs in those old GM's the valve on the GS3 eventually will need rebuilding. With the R Nine One doing its pressure control via motor speed and not a valve it's so far been more reliable than the GS3. Plus the R Nine One gives you LM Strada EP capabilities at less than half the price. I ended up being more of a Mopar guy with early 70's vintage Cudas and Challengers but had my fair share of GMs including an early Firebird with a 350(wish I still had that one) and a Camaro and Nova with the ever reliable inline 6. Sorry for the dive into my High school car days :) Marc
@@Wholelattelovepage Thank you Mark. It sounds like we are about the same age. The rocket is a great looking machine. It is when you showed the inside of the machine That I started paying closer attention. At first glance it looks decent but then I noticed the wiring and hose routing. It does not have the professional look that the GS has. The hoses look like they pulled them out of a stock bin and said make them fit. The wiring is point A to B with zero thought on service or cleanliness. The control modules look to be flopping around on the side. It looks half baked. That is why I asked to see a little more in depth on build quality of the two. Both machines are 7k what makes them worth that and is one more developed than the other. To me worth has a lot to do with build quality. Hand labor is expensive but great hand labor is worth the expense.
i want one!!! But in my head i'm thinking will I get a $4,000 more better cup of coffee than my $2k to 3$ standard pre-infusion E61 espresso machine. Seems more ideal if you are also a home roaster of beans. Each type of bean you roast may need to be saturated differently.
Hi AB, Thanks for the comment. I spent a lot of time with this machine to get all the detail in the review! I'm asking Rocket why they choose not to insulate the boilers. My guess is boiler insulation is less common in commercial machines. Maybe for more passive heat transfer to the cup warming surface. Marc
Between this and the GS3 AV how do they compare & which would you get/why? What about the same but for it compared to the Slayer single group espresso? Thanks
Hi r., Thanks for the question. Personally I think there's a better option than all those. Meet the Dalla Corte Mina: www.wholelattelove.com/products/dalla-corte-mina-110v Close in price to a GS3 but far more capable with repeatable 5 step flow profiles! Compared to Slayer less $$ and more capable. Marc
Do most people really notice the difference in taste to go through all of that? i know that coffee on my machine will taste different depending on different factors, it seems to be a lot of hassle. i love my coffee, but my espresso express works fine for me. The rocket is a nice machine mind you and plumbing in is a good thing.
Its really having the ability to saturate the coffee before extraction. All can be met with basic pre-infusion with most machines. The question is are you getting an almost a $4000 more better cup of coffee? ummmm I don't think so but its still a bad ass machine. Its really on how important having a large control of pre-infusion to you. Some people think 2 bar than straight 9 bar afterwards is good enough that you get with cheaper machines. I think these machines are good if you are roasting your own beans so you can define the type of extraction .
I was a skeptic until I my cafe went from the simmoneli aurelia to a slayer using the same bean and roast for espresso. HUGE difference. It was good before, but amazing after.
@@flagrantlyvivid7195 true, but remember also a lot of people drink coffee from coffee shops with $15,000 to $25,000 esspresso rigs that are suppose to give you the "best of the best" pull. And I can tell you the best shots were mostly from my $3000 home rig. The flavor differences in coffee can be broad but not that broad. You would expect the best cups of esspresso from most mom and pop coffee shops that specialize in esspresso shots to be breath taking but most of them suck or just basic in flavor.
@@Moreno_Cubanito the problem with those shops is that they don't pay good baristas enough as an incentive to stay with the shop, resulting in shitty baristas that don't know the difference between a macchiato and caramel macchiato. The reason you're getting the best results on your home rig is because you're dedicated enough to buy a $3000 dollar machine. Find a shop with a dedicated coffee professional that has access to a synesso mvp hydra, slayer espresso machine, la marzocco strada or better yet lapovoni leva and your home espresso machine will bow in reverence, trust me. The control to extract the specific flavors you like in the beginning, middle or end of the shot on those machines are incredible.
Surely a great machine...but it's like with cars, if one spent a certain (large) amount of money, you want a BMW, Merc and not a VW patch...while Rocket being the VW and La Marzocco being the BMW...Personally I would rather spent a bit more and get a La Marzocco, even if the Rocket might have more features.
Hi Ron, Thanks for sharing your opinion. I hear you - I'll add sometimes the VW's are more reliable. LM GS3 modifies pressure/flow in the path of hot water. R Nine One uses pump to modify. Also, for same features you have to go to a Strada which is a lot more $$.
Hi ws, Not exactly an economy machine. If looking for flow/pressure control at a lower price check out The Profitec Pro 500, 600 or 700 and the ECM Synchronika. All are available with a flow control device on the E61 group. See them here: www.wholelattelove.com/collections/flow-control Marc
Hi Marc Thank you for this video we just purchased one here in Australia I have a few questions to ask you I was looking for your email address on the website. Thank you look forward to to hearing from you soon Kind regards Leanne
Hi mm, Congrats on the new machine. Unfortunately I do not publicly post my email. With >300,000 subs it would be impossible to respond to all the questions I'd get. I do my best to respond to all original comments here on YT. So you can ask here. I should let you know we no longer have an R Nine One at our facility so it may be difficult to answer. Marc
You seem to have an awful lot of knowledge in this arena - well done - you also remind me of a couple of my brothers buddies from the '70's, who Retired early in life thanks to their herbal knowledge..
That’s for rich one not for middle class:( 7k that’s crazy, & every time you need to go to manually you have to cycle through all the stuff 7k it’s kind of cheap
@@DDSRdds I think there is an official kit that turns the Mina to 58mm. I think it includes changing the water desk and shower screen. I think Whole Latte Love have that kit... call them and check
@@NANA-gy7yx don’t do. 54mm will get you better shot. Unless you want more coffee in a shot. I find it’s the depth that matters more because it is more consistent. I find 58mm too large and that restricts my coffee shots to max 2 per day. If shots were say 13g then I can go 3 and also have much sweeter ones.
Definitely need an in depth training to use it, but nevertheless i'd love to own one. I've looked at the apartmento and i think that will definitely be the machine i would get once i decide to delve into the world of Rocket Espresso machines. Excelent review though, btw can the Appartmento be modified to fit a PID or does one have to upgrade to the Mozaffiato?
So Rocket didn't have a PID on their lower priced machines, because they made up a story that people didn't want a PID on machines. And yet on their most expensive model, they have a PID on the machine. Hmm, I thought people didn't want that? Why not just give us a rinky-dink external PID on the R9 like all the lower priced models?
Hi UK, Not sure I follow. Aside from the Appatamento and Porta Via portable all Rocket machines are PID. The PID controller on the dual boiler R58 uses a detachable controller. Their Evo R and Type V HX boiler machines have the PID controller hidden behind the drip tray. Marc
As a technician for coffe/ espresso machines for over 20 years, it's much appreciated to see the inside of the machine. Well done.
Hey MR T, Thanks for the comment!
Marc
This is the most in-depth review I've watched on any espresso machine, thank you Marc! I've had the R Nine One on my wish list for a couple years now and I'm about to order one soon.
I'm coming from a Viebemme Dumobar that served me well for almost 6 years before the pump stopped working. I had to research a lot of material and had many attempts and wasted a lot of coffee beans before I was able to consistently pull good shots. If I had come across some of the videos you have made, it would have saved me a lot of frustration and flattened out the learning curve a little. :)
Hi T-DD, you're welcome for the videos and thank you for the kind comment!
Marc
Best video on R9 one on youtube … learned all about my machine from this video more than the instructions manual
Hi Ahmed, Thanks a whole latte for the comment!
You no longer sell this machine. Any specific reasons why?
4:13 can you fit a 20 grams basket in the double spout portafilter of the R9? I am thinking to use such a machine in our family bakery for running max 55-60 espressos per day, somehow amateur- commercial use 😅
Hi Kats, You may be able to fit 20g in the filter basket which ships with machine. If not, you can pick up a precision basket like this that will: www.wholelattelove.com/products/baristapro-20g-nanotech-precision-portafilter-basket
@@Wholelattelovepage of course I already own a 20grams precision basket by IMS. I was only wondering if the double spot which I prefer to use has any limitation on basket size , comparing with the naked portafilter that hasn't
@@Kats072307 The 20g should fit. It's been awhile, and I don't have a unit nearby to confirm but I believe the machine may ship with an IMS triple competition basket
Does the high pitch ringing cost extra?
The amount of thoughts and preparation that go into this video is impressive. Thanks for such details and great job with the video! Curious - would you care to review the la marzocco levaX?
Hey jz, Thanks for the kind comment and request. If I can get my hands on the levaX I will!
Marc
I’ve had two of these £4.5k machines. After my initial disappointment with the first brand new machine that had software issues meaning the profiles just didn’t work and some of the functions didn’t work at all, it was returned and refunded by Machina.
I then purchased a brand new machine from Pro Espresso. The service has been faultless but the machine has had problems over the 9 months I’ve had it.
I’ve had two leaks. One that needed a new seal. Also has had a faulty pressure gauge that had to be replaced.
This week I started to get some odd noises with the pump and this morning it’s not working at all - the pressure will just not increase. The screen turns itself off and resets halfway through the serve and no pressure at all. It’s now just making the noise and doing odd things with pressure.
I think I’ve had it with this machine. For nearly 5k I expected reliability. It’s a bit embarrassing to be honest. It was my 50th birthday present so I look After it and make probably 1/2 coffees a day max.
From the experience of two brand new machines, the rocket r-nine one is just not reliable.
Hi JW, Thanks for sharing your unfortunate experience with the machine.
I'm getting to grips with my own R9 One. I notice the inline filter and ends of the silicone tube connected to it have turned a sort of black. THe machine was sitting a really long time in a location so I wonder if that's biofilm and I should replace the filter... Guess it's only about AU$15.
I really appreciate the run down of the machine - it's a rats nest of cabling and tube! I just finished insulating the boilers and that was a pain to do without stripping the machine down. I hope it yields similar benefit as it did on my old rocket giotto (about 30% less "on" time for element).
1.9 liters brew boiler seems to be overkill for home users. Usually a smaller boiler is used for prociumers machines. If you make 2-4 cups a day you will get lot of reheated water that will effect the taste. I was looking for a profile machine and so far thinking of VBM Domabar super electronic. What do you think is the downside besides e61 group?
Hi Val, If you're interested in profiling machines and you're at the level of the R Nine One but want a smaller boiler I'd take a look at the Dalla Corte Mina. It's a flow profiling machine with incredibly precise control of flow rates and with the smaller boiler over group design brew temps are accurate and quick to change. Learn more about the DC Mina here including videos: www.wholelattelove.com/products/dalla-corte-mina-espresso-machine-110v-white
Marc
@@Wholelattelovepage The Mina is a go too machine for my local roasters, the precision on it is unmatched.
My pressure sensor with the Din plug in the back of it is plumbed into a location below the OPV on the tank side of the machine instead of out of the top of the group (mine has a bolt closing that off).
I wonder if this is just a configuration change for build as mine is much newer than this video.
Always enjoy watching your show! This is another dream machine! All looks cool, except... The on/off switch for programed mode doesn't feel natural; the profile list, although serves the purpose, looks really bad. A graphical interface is really the way to go. I think it is silly for manufactures to put a silly/costly screen like that rather than leverage smart phone and tablet, witch provides a free graphical interface, and much powerful and friendly UI capability.
can't decide between the Rocket R Nine One and the Profitec pro 800, they can both pressure profile but what is the huge difference?
Hi O, Well, the huge difference is the Pro 800 is a manual lever machine so any profiling you do is manually controlled by restricting the lever as spring tension causes it to rise.
Marc
Can the hot water arm be articulated left/right/up/down at all? It looks as though its positioned a little low for tall cups/mugs. How is the clearance?
@whole Latte Love
Marc,
does the auto shot recorder end the shot or must you switch off manually at the lever?
Also I notice you push the paddle off then bring it back a fraction.... why do that second move not just turn it off?
Hello Marc, thanks a lot for you amazing videos. I own a Rocket R Nine One coffee machine and the video you made it's very helpful ! If it is possible for you, maybe one day, could you make a video of the inside of the machine and talk a bit about the gear pump?? And also, i would like to better know are the boilers insulated and made of stainless steel? Thank you a lot in advance
Hi Marc, what a really great review you made here.
just wanted to ask.
How do you reckon the r9v?
and why can't i find the review anywhere in youtube?
Have you ever tried it?
thanks for your kind response Marc!
Hi Albert, Thanks for the kind comment on the video. I have not used and R9V so can't add.
Marc
Amazing machine and I am really up for profiling, since the flavour you obtain is far superior. What bothers me with the R Nine One is that the User Interface does not seem to be thought through to the end:
1. The functional elements and the software design of the interface looks cluttered and does not reflect the elegance of the rest of the machine. It has the look and feel of a UI of a 3D printer rather.
2. It’s apparently not possible to get any software updates from Rocket. At least I did not find a hint to that possibility anywhere. Meaning to change software you would have to change the entire machine.
3. The manual profiling and recording option is great - but having only one a slot for saving the profile without having the opportunity to transfer it to the A-D slots reduces the whole idea to a kind of click bait/buy bait. Because this means that I have to overwrite it each time I use different coffee beans - or I have to write it down and then program it by hand into the A-D profiles. Since there is no possibility for software update the machine’s value is cut down considerably once a machine with same hardware but improved software comes to the market.
4. The programming function (A-D) does not allow for proper programming of a linear decrease of the flow towards the end. It can only be programmed in steps. And only a total of five steps is available. That’s probably the reason why it’s not possible to transfer the recorded profile to the A-D slots. It’s structurally a different kind of data.
5. It should have a web-server like any router for software update and more convenient programming. Contrary to some iOS Apps that Rocket does not seem to update, this would be a timeless way to keep your machine in order.
Are there any announcements from Rocket for an updated version of the R Nine One ?
Hi FK, Thanks for sharing your thoughts on the R Nine One. I have no information from Rocket Espresso on updates to the machine. If you're really up for profiling you might have a look at the flow profiling Dalla Corte Mina - it has many of the features you desire: www.wholelattelove.com/products/dalla-corte-mina-110v
Marc
@@Wholelattelovepage Thanks for the swift reply. I will have a look - I didn’t notice that one yet. I like the simple Profitec solution - but, as you point out in the video, reproducibility would be nice to have indeed. To separate the “dialing in” intellectual act from “just making coffee” with the respective programmed recipe/profile would be quite good.
Thanks for all your excellent videos ! I learned a lot from them and they are really fun to watch ! It’s also nice that you manage to pinpoint the actual questions arising in each case !
It is very envious of this Rocket. Thank's Marc
Hey bttb, You're welcome and thanks for the comment!
Marc
Great video, pretty impressive. Your take, pros and cons, Rocket R Nine One vs the ECM Synchronica with flow valve, thank you
That’s exactly what I was thinking. Really the only things I see the extra money gives you is the ability of repeatable pulls due to the computers saving function and boilers. The Rocket brew boiler is over twice the size at 1.9L while the ECM is 0.7L and the steam boiler on the Rocket is almost twice the size at 3.7L and the ECM being 2.0L. Having larger boilers results in them having larger elements as well, but if the ECM can steam and brew just as well who cares.
@@danhorton6182 Thanks Dan and Orrin, i am thinking the same :)
Can the R9 ONE do a "blooming" shot? Like, you can start the flow with a low-pressure pre-infusion, and then STOP the flow for a few seconds to let the coffee "bloom" and then restart the flow and finish it however you'd like? Thanks!
Hi CR, Yes it can. One can set a low pressure pre-infusion, set a next step in the process to zero pressure for a time then increase pressure. Can do the same using the manual control on the group.
I’m surprised the steam pressure is not higher and more on par with the gs3 or the ecm synch for that matter
Hi f, Thanks for the comment. Steam boiler is larger than in Synchronika or GS3. Steam tips make a huge difference. Did some testing on a Pro 700 (identical boiler and steam pressure to Synchronika) a couple weeks ago. It was ~20 seconds to take 6oz milk to 140F with the stock tip. On the R Nine One it was ~14 seconds. If you saw the section in this vid with the accessory tip tests the Rocket 3 and 4 hole tips did it in ~11 seconds. The smaller diameter 2 hole tip was 23 seconds. Working pressure does not tell the whole story.
Marc
Can you save star last manual profile if you want to a or b c d e? Or you have to write it manual on desired profile position?
2nd can you share profiles with other r9 users i.e. export / import them ?
Kurt Hi, thanks for the questions. Can only save manual profile to star position. No electronic method of sharing profiles. You’d need to write it down.
Marc
So if I go with a ecm syncronika, plumbed to a bwt water filtration system, how often does the machine or pre-infuse valve need replaced or refurbished?
Hi william, Thanks for the question. Assuming you are referring to the E61 mushroom valve? With proper use of the BWT filter system no scale should build up on the valve. Additionally ECM uses a stainless steel mushroom while some manufacturers use chrome plated mushrooms. With that, replacement should never be required.
Marc
@@Wholelattelovepage An online forum says that the handle for the pre-infuse on the ECM synchronika, in some cases, doesn't turn a full 360° and or one has to be careful when handling it, as to not burn one's fingers. Is this really something to be concerned with?
@@JasonAlexzander1q47 Hi - I've had the synchronika now for about nine months now. There is an adjustment on the control which will change how much range it will turn. It is a little tight and if you aren't paying attention you could burn your fingers. The flow control is an add on to the synchronika as opposed to being designed that way from the get go. If I were buying today I would look much more at the Lelit - you could save some money - or take the money and move it into your grinder and I think have a better set up for the same money.
Great review! Would you consider this then over the GS3 MP for a pop-up/event espresso bar? light commercial use. Cheers!
Hi Austen, For that purpose I'd take a look at the Dalla Corte Mina: www.wholelattelove.com/products/dalla-corte-mina-110v
It's a true commercial machine.
Marc
@@Wholelattelovepage hadn’t considered this machine, I’ll check it out. Many thanks for the recommendation Marc!
Is there a way to save more than one profile star?
Hello Marc, nice to see you healthy again.
What an impressive review!
Thank you, that was definitely a lot of work. Nicely structured. I believe no one else could make such a deep going review like you guys.
Athletes just have more stamina in every way ;=)
That you keep track with all the inner cable mess. Also nice that you have tested the various steam tips, thx alot for that interesting extra work.
I have one small question: the boilers are not isolated like at ECM / Profitec.
How hot get the boilers from the outside? I had seen that some silicone tubes lie directly on the boiler. Will they not become porous over time?
Hi Bob, See you found the video! Thanks for the kind comment. Feeling much better - the sinuses have cleared up! Brew boiler runs ~200F/93C, service/steam boiler runs 264F/129C. Silicone rubber is generally non-reactive,
stable, and resistant to extreme environments and temperatures from -67
°F to 572 °F (-55 °C to 300 °C) while still maintaining its useful
properties. We've serviced 1000's of machines with silicone tubing and have never had one melt, crack, etc. It's a very resilient material! In espresso machines generally only used for very low or no pressure lines.
Marc
@@Wholelattelovepage Hi Marc, thank you for your detailed and professionel answer.
@@Wholelattelovepage still an odd choice not to insulate the boilers. Other Rocket machines are insulated. Any insight as to the reason for this?
It looks very well made. What is the heat up time?
Hi JD, Thanks for the question. About 30 minutes to complete warm up. It does have 2 automatic turn-on/off times per day. So if using about the the same time everyday you can set it to turn on automatically and be ready for use when you are!
Marc
@@Wholelattelovepage Thank you, Is it worth the extra over the Vesuvius?
Hi Mark, i love your video very informative. I'm one of the rocket espresso owner. I have Something i want to ask you about the Rocket machine. Did you guys realize we need to grind finer on the rocket machine? I've been using the mozzafiato almost two years and it was amazing machine. But the only think that i concern was the extraction, i need to grind very fine for good extraction and i always use nakedportal. When i go a little bit course and the extraction will be very fast. Hope you can share with me what do i do wrong or do you have any tips on it? Thank mark
Sam
Hi Marc, can I pipe in well water that is slightly acidic with the SS boilers ? I could not do that with copper boilers in the R58.
Hi OA, Thanks for the question. Slightly acidic should be okay. Normal range for drinking water is pH 6.5 to 8.5. It is tough to make a blanket statement as other water parameters like alkalinity, mineral content, etc play a role as well. If pH is below 6.5 it may be best to treat the water to reduce acidity/increase pH - Soda ash (sodium carbonate) and sodium hydroxide raise the pH of water to near neutral when injected into a water system.
Marc
@@Wholelattelovepage Thanks Mac, are your comments appropriate for Stainless Steel Boilers ?
Hi OA, Just read back my initial comment and edited it to say "Slightly acidic should be okay". Rest stays the same. I'm comfortable with pH 6.5 (slightly acidic) in stainless steel.
Marc
Rotary pump or gear pump?
Rotary
whats the output level of this machine ?! i know it's probably not nfs approved but can it support the work flow of a low volume cafe , like gs3 or linea mini ?!
Hi PRP, For cafe I recommend the Dalla Corte Mina: www.wholelattelove.com/products/dalla-corte-mina-110v Similar in price to GS3 put far more capable.
I think that's a good test. But I miss a temperature test with the Scace to see how stable this group is, for example compared to an e61 with pid .
Hi m, Thanks for the comment. It's a saturated group so temps are about as stable as it gets.
Marc
best review ever
Hi EK, Thank you for the comment!
Marc
I think it's similar with delacorta mina, and the strada EP 1 group. Not the GS3 MP..
Hi AB, Thanks for the comment. R Nine One price is below a GS3 MP. As I mentioned in the video capabilities similar to a Strada EP without the $15K price tag!
@@Wholelattelovepage you must be mistaken. I own a la marzocco strada EP1 group. It cost me aroud 7600 USD
@@drashadibudi That's an amazing price! Like unbelievable amazing. A GS3 MP lists around $7,500. Last single group Strada EP I found was $15K list. 2 group Strada EPs run well above $20K.
@@Wholelattelovepage Really? Woow, now I feel so glad I bought it. No wonder not many reviews on it. I only can make simple video like this. I am bad on reviewing:
th-cam.com/video/aHOon4RVEsk/w-d-xo.html
The best profiling!!!! Woot woot!
Hi TVP, Thanks a whole latte for the comment!
Marc
Is the steam wand teflon-lined or double-walled steel?
Hi Vernon, It's a teflon tube lining.
Marc
@@Wholelattelovepage Won't this produce wet steam?
@@NANA-gy7yx yes and the wand gets hots after a while so just pull the damn thing out
@@Skfkf1393a a machine with that price tag should have a double wall steam arm. I hate it when they cheap out like that.
Hi Marc, espresso nubie here. I have a question, what is the difference between R Nine One Pressure Profiling with Rocket Appartamento + flow control and gauge setup? Do they all basically do the same pressure profile only that one is automatic and the other is not? Thank you. Great review as usual!
Hi gw, Thanks for the question. The R Nine One uses pressure. Flow control uses flow rates with little concern for pressure. Pressure and flow are related but not one in the same. For instance if you were using a pressure profile and then changed your grind to coarser the flow rate will be much higher with the coarser grind. But do the same when using flow control and the flow rate stays the same even with the coarser grind. I've become more of an advocate for flow control over the past couple of years. Some research has shown when all else is equal there little difference in the extraction of solids from the grind in a range of 6-10 bar of brew pressure. With flow it's a different story as it's flow through the grind which removes the solids to your cup. Hope that helps!
Marc
@@Wholelattelovepage Thanks for the explanation Marc. Cheers!
@@Wholelattelovepage Hi, so your preference would be a machine that does flow control instead of pressure profiling? I've never had an espresso shot from either or seen either one in person, but being able to control more parameters is something I think I will like. If I can get great results from control of either flow or pressure, does it make more sense to buy a high end machine that does flow control instead since they are about $3K less?
@@DucDNA Machines with flow control of the E61 group are much less complex than pressure profiling machines like this Rocket and less $$. Less complexity means fewer potential problems. If you have not seen, here's a video demoing two very simple flow profiles on the beautiful ECM Synchronika: th-cam.com/video/a-QAOo8Vg5A/w-d-xo.html
My personal preference is controlling flow over pressure.
Marc
Impressive. Makes me think of those newer industrial robots that are programmable by showing rather than writing conventional programs.
I would like to see an honest review between the build quality of the gs 3 and the R nine one. After reviewing multiple video's the GS 3 looks like they take a great deal of pride in building that machine vs the rocket that looks pieced together like an old GM car.
Hi Jim, Thanks for the request. I don't totally agree with the old GM car analogy - except... Aesthetics are subjective and there's no doubt the GS3 is pretty. We've had a GS3 in the staff lounge for a couple months and now the R-Nine One. Guess why the GS3 isn't there anymore. It broke down and had to be serviced. Much like the Rochester Quadrajet carbs in those old GM's the valve on the GS3 eventually will need rebuilding. With the R Nine One doing its pressure control via motor speed and not a valve it's so far been more reliable than the GS3. Plus the R Nine One gives you LM Strada EP capabilities at less than half the price. I ended up being more of a Mopar guy with early 70's vintage Cudas and Challengers but had my fair share of GMs including an early Firebird with a 350(wish I still had that one) and a Camaro and Nova with the ever reliable inline 6. Sorry for the dive into my High school car days :)
Marc
@@Wholelattelovepage Thank you Mark. It sounds like we are about the same age. The rocket is a great looking machine. It is when you showed the inside of the machine That I started paying closer attention. At first glance it looks decent but then I noticed the wiring and hose routing. It does not have the professional look that the GS has. The hoses look like they pulled them out of a stock bin and said make them fit. The wiring is point A to B with zero thought on service or cleanliness. The control modules look to be flopping around on the side. It looks half baked. That is why I asked to see a little more in depth on build quality of the two. Both machines are 7k what makes them worth that and is one more developed than the other. To me worth has a lot to do with build quality. Hand labor is expensive but great hand labor is worth the expense.
i want one!!! But in my head i'm thinking will I get a $4,000 more better cup of coffee than my $2k to 3$ standard pre-infusion E61 espresso machine.
Seems more ideal if you are also a home roaster of beans. Each type of bean you roast may need to be saturated differently.
good point - WHERE does one Draw the Line (unless you've got $$$ to Burn) for a BETTER Cup of Java.?.
Well you could get pressure profiling, without the touch screen control, a bit more reliance on
Barista with the Lelit machine
Best review out there on this machine - thank you! Any reason the boilers don't have insulated jackets? Heard this before - was there a valid reason?
Hi AB, Thanks for the comment. I spent a lot of time with this machine to get all the detail in the review! I'm asking Rocket why they choose not to insulate the boilers. My guess is boiler insulation is less common in commercial machines. Maybe for more passive heat transfer to the cup warming surface.
Marc
This or Lamarzocco?
Have a look at the Dalla Corte Mina: www.wholelattelove.com/products/dalla-corte-mina-110v
Between this and the GS3 AV how do they compare & which would you get/why? What about the same but for it compared to the Slayer single group espresso? Thanks
Hi r., Thanks for the question. Personally I think there's a better option than all those. Meet the Dalla Corte Mina: www.wholelattelove.com/products/dalla-corte-mina-110v
Close in price to a GS3 but far more capable with repeatable 5 step flow profiles! Compared to Slayer less $$ and more capable.
Marc
Thanks Marc, you wet my interest for it. I’ll read more and research it.
Great video as usual. One small question, does pressure profiling impact milk-based drinks like lattes and cappuccinos?
Hi Vernon, Thanks for taking the time to comment. It impacts milk based drinks in the profiling can bring out other flavors in the espresso.
Marc
Do most people really notice the difference in taste to go through all of that? i know that coffee on my machine will taste different depending on different factors, it seems to be a lot of hassle.
i love my coffee, but my espresso express works fine for me.
The rocket is a nice machine mind you and plumbing in is a good thing.
Its really having the ability to saturate the coffee before extraction. All can be met with basic pre-infusion with most machines. The question is are you getting an almost a $4000 more better cup of coffee? ummmm I don't think so but its still a bad ass machine. Its really on how important having a large control of pre-infusion to you. Some people think 2 bar than straight 9 bar afterwards is good enough that you get with cheaper machines.
I think these machines are good if you are roasting your own beans so you can define the type of extraction .
I was a skeptic until I my cafe went from the simmoneli aurelia to a slayer using the same bean and roast for espresso. HUGE difference. It was good before, but amazing after.
@@flagrantlyvivid7195 true, but remember also a lot of people drink coffee from coffee shops with $15,000 to $25,000 esspresso rigs that are suppose to give you the "best of the best" pull. And I can tell you the best shots were mostly from my $3000 home rig.
The flavor differences in coffee can be broad but not that broad. You would expect the best cups of esspresso from most mom and pop coffee shops that specialize in esspresso shots to be breath taking but most of them suck or just basic in flavor.
@@Moreno_Cubanito the problem with those shops is that they don't pay good baristas enough as an incentive to stay with the shop, resulting in shitty baristas that don't know the difference between a macchiato and caramel macchiato. The reason you're getting the best results on your home rig is because you're dedicated enough to buy a $3000 dollar machine. Find a shop with a dedicated coffee professional that has access to a synesso mvp hydra, slayer espresso machine, la marzocco strada or better yet lapovoni leva and your home espresso machine will bow in reverence, trust me. The control to extract the specific flavors you like in the beginning, middle or end of the shot on those machines are incredible.
@@Moreno_Cubanito it's not just the taste though, it's the way it feels in your mouth, trust me, it's beautiful.
How much this machine?
Current pricing here: www.wholelattelove.com/rocket-espresso-r-nine-one-espresso-machine
Surely a great machine...but it's like with cars, if one spent a certain (large) amount of money, you want a BMW, Merc and not a VW patch...while Rocket being the VW and La Marzocco being the BMW...Personally I would rather spent a bit more and get a La Marzocco, even if the Rocket might have more features.
Hi Ron, Thanks for sharing your opinion. I hear you - I'll add sometimes the VW's are more reliable. LM GS3 modifies pressure/flow in the path of hot water. R Nine One uses pump to modify. Also, for same features you have to go to a Strada which is a lot more $$.
I need it for cheaper than what you have it listed for Marc.
Hi ws, Not exactly an economy machine. If looking for flow/pressure control at a lower price check out The Profitec Pro 500, 600 or 700 and the ECM Synchronika. All are available with a flow control device on the E61 group. See them here: www.wholelattelove.com/collections/flow-control
Marc
Great machine feature wise but pretty ordinary looking, maybe an issue in that price range.
Hi Marc
Thank you for this video we just purchased one here in Australia I have a few questions to ask you I was looking for your email address on the website.
Thank you look forward to to hearing from you soon
Kind regards
Leanne
Hi mm, Congrats on the new machine. Unfortunately I do not publicly post my email. With >300,000 subs it would be impossible to respond to all the questions I'd get. I do my best to respond to all original comments here on YT. So you can ask here. I should let you know we no longer have an R Nine One at our facility so it may be difficult to answer.
Marc
You seem to have an awful lot of knowledge in this arena - well done - you also remind me of a couple of my brothers buddies from the '70's, who Retired early in life thanks to their herbal knowledge..
Hi David, Thanks for the comment. Well, I had some "herbal" knowledge in the late 70's! Lol
Marc
That’s for rich one not for middle class:( 7k that’s crazy, & every time you need to go to manually you have to cycle through all the stuff 7k it’s kind of cheap
Hi MG, Thanks for the comment - it's a geek level machine. You'd be surprised at what coffee geeks will spend on their hobby.
😍😍
Thanks!
I think I will pay extra $2,000 to get the Mina instead. This looks great though.
Hi MTN, Thanks for the the comment. The Dalla Corte Mina is one heck of a machine!
Marc
@@DDSRdds I think there is an official kit that turns the Mina to 58mm. I think it includes changing the water desk and shower screen. I think Whole Latte Love have that kit... call them and check
@@NANA-gy7yx don’t do. 54mm will get you better shot. Unless you want more coffee in a shot. I find it’s the depth that matters more because it is more consistent.
I find 58mm too large and that restricts my coffee shots to max 2 per day. If shots were say 13g then I can go 3 and also have much sweeter ones.
What a machine for the price, excellent, but i think ill need a Phd to operate it 🤣🤣
Yes it's for serious espresso hobbyists
Definitely need an in depth training to use it, but nevertheless i'd love to own one. I've looked at the apartmento and i think that will definitely be the machine i would get once i decide to delve into the world of Rocket Espresso machines. Excelent review though, btw can the Appartmento be modified to fit a PID or does one have to upgrade to the Mozaffiato?
Shit. My rocket is under 1 bar at the start of steaming. No wonder my milk isnt as good as a want. Need some adjustments
Always liked Rocket machines for their looks but this one is plain ugly and overloaded with stuff on the front.
So Rocket didn't have a PID on their lower priced machines, because they made up a story that people didn't want a PID on machines. And yet on their most expensive model, they have a PID on the machine. Hmm, I thought people didn't want that? Why not just give us a rinky-dink external PID on the R9 like all the lower priced models?
Hi UK, Not sure I follow. Aside from the Appatamento and Porta Via portable all Rocket machines are PID. The PID controller on the dual boiler R58 uses a detachable controller. Their Evo R and Type V HX boiler machines have the PID controller hidden behind the drip tray.
Marc
Hate copper and brass...... Stainless is better.
Hi z, Thanks for the comment.
Marc
which coffee machine no copper tube, please let me know, thanks