I think no matter how you play magic, if players see your struggling or misplaying i noticed a lot with give advice on what you should of done rather then being quite cuz they want to win! End of the day magic is about engaging with other people and play cards is just the cherry on top! Remember be kind to everyone its not about the win but rather good memories
Play To Win is one of my favorite TH-cam channels for this exact reason: the vibe is chill even though they’re playing with busted cards. It’s a pod dynamic I aspire to
Casual still has a need for "less casual" rules explanations because the most casual commander games still can have extremely weird interactions that need explanations. So keeping it casual makes sense either way
Play to win guys rock and I love the way you describe them, they do a great job making cedh feel accessible with how they play and talk about the format
as a wise man once said to me, “cedh just stands for casual edh, everyone sitting down understands that everyone there is playing to win, which means there is less salt than say a “power level 7” group”
CEdh is where we casually play with the most busted cards, and we’ll talk through plays and have a good time. If you make a mistake we generally tell you about it before it goes through. In a tournament though we let you make the mistake and tell you after
There are so few competitive players within most shops, that all of us who try our best to be competitive give each other way more leeway to make the best moves within a match. That way we are always competing against the best version of an opponent we can possibly be competing with. Even though we have less options of competitive opponents.
🎉Competitive is very much a mindset and a table standard, but in my experience it IS very punishing of mistakes. Casual is lighter because mistakes don't mean as much when everyone is slamming bombs and slapping one another with dinosaurs, dragons, goblins, and hobbits. Countering the wrong spell in competitive is lethal.
I think it’s a bit in the way you treat yourself. I think someone is able to learn from their mistakes without beating themselves up too harshly. Sometimes folks fall super hard into that kind of “competitive” mindset and it ends up being very detrimental. This is speaking from personal experience.
There's a reason a lot of CEDH players/pods are especially open (or encouraging) to using proxies, it's not really a format about having the stronger deck than everyone else but about trying to have those more tactical, high-tier games. And it's a lot harder to have that experience if your opponents aren't even able to also play decks in that power bracket.
@@keepingitcasualmtg Indeed. Also one of the better examples I've seen for what makes CEDH is Mental Misstep. Great card, tends to be meh in regular Commander games (unless you get the perfect draw vs someone's turn 1 Sol Ring, there's not as many big 1-drops to counter), pretty vital in CEDH though (because that sort of speed is necessary). CEDH decks are fast but struggle to interact against non-CEDH for that reason, they're built to fight other CEDH decks; and all the more reason to _want_ your opponents to have optimized decks so yours can also perform at its best.
And that’s the reason I love cedh more than casual because we don’t care what cards you are playing as long as they aren’t band and what plays you make as long as they get you closer to a win instead of stopping someone else or being spiteful and/or king making
My cEDH pod is super casual, unless we are preparing for a tournament. We all want to be better, so we help each other to be better. We all want to win, but we want to play clean and win due to mastery of the game, not silly mistakes or misunderstandings. It is so liberating to put aside any ego or feelings that can happen at non-cEDH tables, in an effort to be super cutthroat later.
As you say it is more of a mind set for me as well. Casual can be done with or without powerful cards, on the personal I like playing with weaker cards for variety and allowing all players who I don't know their powerlevel or expertise to play and do their thing. I might try to win but not by holding information and not letting other learn from their mistakes or the rules, I might reveal information just to help them learn more about the game so that we all can enjoy it more. Not knowing the powerlevel of the other players as well as experience makes me feel playing strong decks not allow others to do their thing but if your pod is on the same level go nuts and use all the cards that you know your pod would enjoy does not matter if it's a highly optimized cedh deck or a precon if you know your pod and all have that casual mentality you won't have any issue
I like to give people a heads up if I feel they are trying to do something that wouldn't work the way that they think, before they fully commit to the action. I'll allow take backs as well for scenarios where I know the intention, but it wouldn't work how they thought
Bruh I was at a 10k cEDH tournament and a guy put a demonic tutor on the stack, the next player asked what they were going to look for, the guy said he needed a mana crypt to catch up. The person passed priority. The next player was on with that and it resolved. CEDH is the game style of being completely open to gain favor with others, but under the surface you have the lines for a win. With the new ruling about a spell being on the stack, players can talk about changing the target of a spell or ability before it resolves and making their case for the active player. The AP can at any point stop the conversation, but they don't have to. players will spend 20 minutes talking about if they want the spell to resolve, if it's good or bad for the table, what's the line they are going for to win, and how to go from there. It's literally the BEST way to play the game. Tons of interactions and communication. Casual is just so boring and such little interaction, with almost no communication and just wild swings with a spell or a creature. That's the worst.
I think interaction knowledge is more important in casual, since there is a lot of funny stuff you can do that isn’t good enough for cedh but is still cool
I think casual has a bad connotation in some circles. I think of casual magic the same as casual conversation. I'm looking for fun interactions with people, in and out of game! I think table talk and stuff like that and having a good community are important and casual =/= bad player or an unknowledgeable one
I casually agree and competitively disagree. There's actually a third "casual" style, which tends towards grouphug-style decks or toward the decks without any wincon, because they enjoy just playing the game, and, while it can be wholesome, it can also be frustrating for a lot of people, because it reduces the stakes a lot and this player doesn't have any to start with, he wins for himself just by playing the game long enough. CEDH allows me to filter those players, because I personally dislike this style of play, it's interesting for 1 player, but EDH is a 4-player format
Most CEDH players just want good games. If their opponents are playing suboptimally, the game doesn’t have enough back and forth and it’s just solitaire. Same for most competitive 60 card players, when it’s not in a tournament setting. At FNM I’ve even talked newer players through certain lines to help them understand the game better, and hopefully encourage them to come back next week.
That is true when everyone is in the mindset of learning and not “this is not how it works” then games are so much more enjoyable and everyone learns together
I used to play competitive shooters, got pretty decent, but you can't play just competitively or it destroys you. Even though my casual was better than like 80% of all players it was the mind set of making a mistake and laughing or doing silly things that made it casual. I wanted to win but it wasn't a priority, the priority was to have fun and hang out with friends making sure they have fun too.
This 100% I’d play draft and find myself getting salty often until my wife pointed out I seemed like I was mad more often than having fun. Had to shift my mindset and it’s felt so much better playing this way
My mindset is I refuse to lose to misplays in a play to win game, if we are having fun then I'm not trying to win and I want to see the deck do the cool thing, even if it means I lose
@keepingitcasualmtg 100%, I more mean that if someone misplays, it doesn't feel like a "good" or "fair" win, like if people will call someone on making a misplay like forgetting their creature actually dies to that board wipe, then we should also remind them when they forget a creature has indestructible and wouldn't die to a board wipe. I don't think I'm explaining it well but oh well
@@xero1134 I think I see what you mean. Like if someone wins a game due to a rules infraction that was missed it doesn’t feel like it was a fair game. I agree with that and think it’s a good reason why learning about the rules promote more fair game play
Yeah, casual is a mindset like when you go into an LGS and you're just there to have fun to laugh and play. You're not looking for the highest level of competition so much. You know the whole gathering part
so thats what my friend group calls comp-casual, cas-petative or just CCEDH, but never semi-competative, its not a half measure its just friends wanting to play optimal EHD.
I do agree but also while not all cedh players but a lot of them play with a lot more limited scope of cards where causals will play with any cards causing weird rules interaction
There goal was to be educational. And same with you, in this case. If people know more, thet leads to more interactive games. It leads to better games.
I’d say that CEDH is a misnomer and really only refers to what we would categorize in other formats as “Tier 1 Decks”. The “C” aspect is just the 100-card Singleton players roleplaying like they’re playing an actual competitive format!
Unfortunately, my play group and LGS have mostly toxic players that dont value the spirit of the game. Ive had to get into a more competitive environment to even play with people. Im starting to get bored of it and maybe taking a break from the game for a bit. If anyone can offer me any advice id really appreciate it, i dont want to quit playing.
Perhaps playing online via spelltable or mtg arena to get a bit of your magic fix? It’s hard to find the right play group sometimes. Maybe vocalizing that you’re looking for a more lax game so that you’re able to find folks that are also looking for the same thing
Its about having a good time at the end of the day, and noone wants to feel like they're pubstomping. By helping newcomers they get more chances to play fun games and once you get the ropes you can give them a run for their money!
been competitve is good. you get better by been competitive. "casual " is a bad word imo. i always say non cedh. i have seen some 7 pods be very competitve.
Cedh is the most competitive, you played with friends who play cedh where in reality it was just an equal higher power Go to a random game store with a cedh night and you'll see, its degenerate and just exactly what it supposed to be
Your experience of CEDH doesn't sound like true CEDH. That sounded like casual with high level decks. Edit: I'm saying this from experience and anecdotal tales. Congrats on having had that experience you had, and may more games be like that one.
Nah, the PlayToWin crew are super chill and obviously wanted Chookie to have a great first time playing cEDH. No need to pubstomp a new player. Also, MTRA 4.8 is a ruling for multiplayer games that does allow player to take back moves, allowing players to politic and reveal information to convince the active player to reverse their decision. Ex. If you cast a counterspell on my Rhystic Study, I could tell you not to do that because another player tutored and likely has an Ad Nauseam in hand and is waiting for my end step to cast it.
I think no matter how you play magic, if players see your struggling or misplaying i noticed a lot with give advice on what you should of done rather then being quite cuz they want to win! End of the day magic is about engaging with other people and play cards is just the cherry on top! Remember be kind to everyone its not about the win but rather good memories
Play To Win is one of my favorite TH-cam channels for this exact reason: the vibe is chill even though they’re playing with busted cards. It’s a pod dynamic I aspire to
Casual still has a need for "less casual" rules explanations because the most casual commander games still can have extremely weird interactions that need explanations. So keeping it casual makes sense either way
Play to win guys rock and I love the way you describe them, they do a great job making cedh feel accessible with how they play and talk about the format
They really do make it very approachable
Cedh isn't accessible when you don't have unlimited money
as a wise man once said to me, “cedh just stands for casual edh, everyone sitting down understands that everyone there is playing to win, which means there is less salt than say a “power level 7” group”
Play to win is the best MTG contect out there right now. Love their energy.
They are super GOATED
CEdh is where we casually play with the most busted cards, and we’ll talk through plays and have a good time. If you make a mistake we generally tell you about it before it goes through. In a tournament though we let you make the mistake and tell you after
I guess a lot of it can depend on setting which would make sense
There are so few competitive players within most shops, that all of us who try our best to be competitive give each other way more leeway to make the best moves within a match. That way we are always competing against the best version of an opponent we can possibly be competing with. Even though we have less options of competitive opponents.
You can play to win and have fun. Magic is a game made to be enjoyed and we have many different ways to enjoy it for everyone.
100%
🎉Competitive is very much a mindset and a table standard, but in my experience it IS very punishing of mistakes.
Casual is lighter because mistakes don't mean as much when everyone is slamming bombs and slapping one another with dinosaurs, dragons, goblins, and hobbits.
Countering the wrong spell in competitive is lethal.
I think it’s a bit in the way you treat yourself. I think someone is able to learn from their mistakes without beating themselves up too harshly. Sometimes folks fall super hard into that kind of “competitive” mindset and it ends up being very detrimental. This is speaking from personal experience.
There's a reason a lot of CEDH players/pods are especially open (or encouraging) to using proxies, it's not really a format about having the stronger deck than everyone else but about trying to have those more tactical, high-tier games. And it's a lot harder to have that experience if your opponents aren't even able to also play decks in that power bracket.
It encourages more equality in a way, where more casual formats have a harder time determining what is equal and what is fair.
@@keepingitcasualmtg Indeed. Also one of the better examples I've seen for what makes CEDH is Mental Misstep. Great card, tends to be meh in regular Commander games (unless you get the perfect draw vs someone's turn 1 Sol Ring, there's not as many big 1-drops to counter), pretty vital in CEDH though (because that sort of speed is necessary). CEDH decks are fast but struggle to interact against non-CEDH for that reason, they're built to fight other CEDH decks; and all the more reason to _want_ your opponents to have optimized decks so yours can also perform at its best.
Casual to competitive is a scale of efficiency in optimization. You can know all the interactions and still play at a casual level.
And that’s the reason I love cedh more than casual because we don’t care what cards you are playing as long as they aren’t band and what plays you make as long as they get you closer to a win instead of stopping someone else or being spiteful and/or king making
CEDH folks I’ve played with so far have been pretty welcoming
I always figured your channel name referred to how you explain complicated rules in a way that any player could understand.
Oh that would make sense too 😆
My cEDH pod is super casual, unless we are preparing for a tournament. We all want to be better, so we help each other to be better. We all want to win, but we want to play clean and win due to mastery of the game, not silly mistakes or misunderstandings. It is so liberating to put aside any ego or feelings that can happen at non-cEDH tables, in an effort to be super cutthroat later.
This is the way to do it in my opinion. I feel like people learn better when they’re more relaxed and not when they’re beating things into their brain
As you say it is more of a mind set for me as well. Casual can be done with or without powerful cards, on the personal I like playing with weaker cards for variety and allowing all players who I don't know their powerlevel or expertise to play and do their thing. I might try to win but not by holding information and not letting other learn from their mistakes or the rules, I might reveal information just to help them learn more about the game so that we all can enjoy it more.
Not knowing the powerlevel of the other players as well as experience makes me feel playing strong decks not allow others to do their thing but if your pod is on the same level go nuts and use all the cards that you know your pod would enjoy does not matter if it's a highly optimized cedh deck or a precon if you know your pod and all have that casual mentality you won't have any issue
I like to give people a heads up if I feel they are trying to do something that wouldn't work the way that they think, before they fully commit to the action. I'll allow take backs as well for scenarios where I know the intention, but it wouldn't work how they thought
Bruh I was at a 10k cEDH tournament and a guy put a demonic tutor on the stack, the next player asked what they were going to look for, the guy said he needed a mana crypt to catch up. The person passed priority. The next player was on with that and it resolved. CEDH is the game style of being completely open to gain favor with others, but under the surface you have the lines for a win.
With the new ruling about a spell being on the stack, players can talk about changing the target of a spell or ability before it resolves and making their case for the active player. The AP can at any point stop the conversation, but they don't have to.
players will spend 20 minutes talking about if they want the spell to resolve, if it's good or bad for the table, what's the line they are going for to win, and how to go from there. It's literally the BEST way to play the game. Tons of interactions and communication. Casual is just so boring and such little interaction, with almost no communication and just wild swings with a spell or a creature. That's the worst.
It's kind of surprising that you all kinda learn together while also trying to beat each other. Its a little collabrative
I think interaction knowledge is more important in casual, since there is a lot of funny stuff you can do that isn’t good enough for cedh but is still cool
The knowledge can never hurt you in a game
100%!!!!! I'm tired of the insane book of rules that contradict each other left and right!
I play competitive decks with my brothers but we still play for fun so we keep not amazing hands and just have fun with the game. It's great😊
I think casual has a bad connotation in some circles. I think of casual magic the same as casual conversation. I'm looking for fun interactions with people, in and out of game! I think table talk and stuff like that and having a good community are important and casual =/= bad player or an unknowledgeable one
I casually agree and competitively disagree.
There's actually a third "casual" style, which tends towards grouphug-style decks or toward the decks without any wincon, because they enjoy just playing the game, and, while it can be wholesome, it can also be frustrating for a lot of people, because it reduces the stakes a lot and this player doesn't have any to start with, he wins for himself just by playing the game long enough.
CEDH allows me to filter those players, because I personally dislike this style of play, it's interesting for 1 player, but EDH is a 4-player format
Most CEDH players just want good games. If their opponents are playing suboptimally, the game doesn’t have enough back and forth and it’s just solitaire. Same for most competitive 60 card players, when it’s not in a tournament setting.
At FNM I’ve even talked newer players through certain lines to help them understand the game better, and hopefully encourage them to come back next week.
Getting better together is always best in my eyes
Plus understanding the rules helps keep things casual bc people won’t get as salty if things don’t work out in their favor if they know why
That is true when everyone is in the mindset of learning and not “this is not how it works” then games are so much more enjoyable and everyone learns together
I was not surprised to hear that that's how your games with ptw went.
They’re awesome guys
I used to play competitive shooters, got pretty decent, but you can't play just competitively or it destroys you. Even though my casual was better than like 80% of all players it was the mind set of making a mistake and laughing or doing silly things that made it casual. I wanted to win but it wasn't a priority, the priority was to have fun and hang out with friends making sure they have fun too.
This 100% I’d play draft and find myself getting salty often until my wife pointed out I seemed like I was mad more often than having fun. Had to shift my mindset and it’s felt so much better playing this way
My mindset is I refuse to lose to misplays in a play to win game, if we are having fun then I'm not trying to win and I want to see the deck do the cool thing, even if it means I lose
I think there are settings for either kind of mindset. Just as long as everyone is on the same page I think there shouldn't be issues!
@keepingitcasualmtg 100%, I more mean that if someone misplays, it doesn't feel like a "good" or "fair" win, like if people will call someone on making a misplay like forgetting their creature actually dies to that board wipe, then we should also remind them when they forget a creature has indestructible and wouldn't die to a board wipe.
I don't think I'm explaining it well but oh well
@@xero1134 I think I see what you mean. Like if someone wins a game due to a rules infraction that was missed it doesn’t feel like it was a fair game. I agree with that and think it’s a good reason why learning about the rules promote more fair game play
Yeah, casual is a mindset like when you go into an LGS and you're just there to have fun to laugh and play. You're not looking for the highest level of competition so much. You know the whole gathering part
I think you could still make tight solid plays, but keep a casual mindset or vibe too
Depends on the table and the people around you
Environment is a big factor
so thats what my friend group calls comp-casual, cas-petative or just CCEDH, but never semi-competative, its not a half measure its just friends wanting to play optimal EHD.
I do agree but also while not all cedh players but a lot of them play with a lot more limited scope of cards where causals will play with any cards causing weird rules interaction
I think you often run into more weird interactions in a lower powered game than higher powered ones
There goal was to be educational. And same with you, in this case.
If people know more, thet leads to more interactive games. It leads to better games.
Oh yes that’s the goal to make the game easier to understand therefore more accessible
I’d say that CEDH is a misnomer and really only refers to what we would categorize in other formats as “Tier 1 Decks”. The “C” aspect is just the 100-card Singleton players roleplaying like they’re playing an actual competitive format!
I mean, if there's money to be won, it's competitive. Period.
Unfortunately, my play group and LGS have mostly toxic players that dont value the spirit of the game. Ive had to get into a more competitive environment to even play with people. Im starting to get bored of it and maybe taking a break from the game for a bit. If anyone can offer me any advice id really appreciate it, i dont want to quit playing.
Perhaps playing online via spelltable or mtg arena to get a bit of your magic fix? It’s hard to find the right play group sometimes. Maybe vocalizing that you’re looking for a more lax game so that you’re able to find folks that are also looking for the same thing
Knowing all the rules is casual.
Pulling out some Pithing Needle BS isn't.
You're doing fine.
Haha thanks
I truly believe cEDH is more casual then regular edh
This could be true in a lot of cases
Its about having a good time at the end of the day, and noone wants to feel like they're pubstomping. By helping newcomers they get more chances to play fun games and once you get the ropes you can give them a run for their money!
Sounds like casual power 10
100%
Ive just gotta say that ptw is awsome so yeah
They totally are
they were casual because there were no prizes during the games
Bring back ante you cowards
@@keepingitcasualmtg agreed! bring back banding while you're at it too.
Nah. No one competitive wants ante.
Prize pool? Yes plz.
been competitve is good. you get better by been competitive. "casual " is a bad word imo. i always say non cedh. i have seen some 7 pods be very competitve.
The words “casual” and “competitive” have some connotations to them but I feel like you can employ the good of both in any game.
Cedh is the most competitive, you played with friends who play cedh where in reality it was just an equal higher power
Go to a random game store with a cedh night and you'll see, its degenerate and just exactly what it supposed to be
You're saying cEDH at a game store is higher powered than with a friend group?
If you're playing cEDH and not doing it optimally are you actually playing competitive
I think you can be competitive and casual at the same time
it almost sounds like the argument is "casual players dont really need to know the rules" which is an absurd take
Your experience of CEDH doesn't sound like true CEDH. That sounded like casual with high level decks.
Edit: I'm saying this from experience and anecdotal tales. Congrats on having had that experience you had, and may more games be like that one.
Nah, the PlayToWin crew are super chill and obviously wanted Chookie to have a great first time playing cEDH. No need to pubstomp a new player.
Also, MTRA 4.8 is a ruling for multiplayer games that does allow player to take back moves, allowing players to politic and reveal information to convince the active player to reverse their decision. Ex. If you cast a counterspell on my Rhystic Study, I could tell you not to do that because another player tutored and likely has an Ad Nauseam in hand and is waiting for my end step to cast it.
CEDH is nothing more than a deck-building philosophy. You don't need to br super cutthroat for it to be CEDH