Time to start asking the politicians to pay for their mistakes, and have the residents of that area vote them out. Or ask for their money back, as this was doomed from the beginning, and has plenty of history of how it is a failure.
They don't! The mindset here in The Netherlands is, citizen is a good cash cow, so unlimited money! Talking about mistakes and how we handle it over here (The Netherlands): Rutte dropped the cabinet in 2021 because of a childcare benefits scandal. then he participated again in the next elections! And guess what, he became the prime minister one more time! After the new cabinet, he didn't bother? Mistake? What mistake? It was on the last one (cabinet), not this one, so no worries..
To be fair they're slowly working it out. They figured vehicular traffic was too much for the panels, so they're trying it with bikes. Maybe they'll try with just pedestrians next, then no traffic at all. Next they could maybe elevate it and angle it to catch more sunlight. Just a suggestion.
I'm wondering, as the contact area of a bike tyre is significantly smaller than a car tyre, and there's only two of them, how comparable the pressure on the road surface is.
@@Croz89 Per Wikipedia "Ground pressure": Human male (130 kg, standing on one foot) 55 kPa Average human, flat shoes 17 kPa Passenger car 205 kPa Mountain bicycle 245 kPa Road racing bicycle 620 kPa Stiletto heel 3,250 kPa
@@0LoneTech Thanks! So arguably a solar bike path is actually a *worse* idea than a solar roadway! (assuming similar levels of traffic, but it's the Netherlands, so that's probably a given). Probably even worse than a typical road bike with heavy Dutch style bicycles.
Putting them over a cycle path: •provides shade •cheaper •easier to replace individual pannels •more sun coverage •lasts years •no major alterations of existing infrastructure Putting them on the ground: •costly •pannels encased in concret •hard to replace individual pannels •dirt •people shading the panels •flat •short lifespan •require full demolition of existing pathways 😂😂😂😂😂
@@williamwalker8107If politician won't go for the cheapest and more reliable option, we should unite and build it ourselves But there comes a very strict regulation that prevents anyone from doing such a good job and ideas that makes sense, sad reality
3:50 It just shows how low their expectations were that they didn't immediately flag the half output as a sign of improper connection when first installing it.
I’d love to see a cost analysis of installing posts, etc., and building a solar-roofed shelter over top of a regular path-using regular panels-versus the cost of the special panels needed for roadways.
Yeah, all they had to do was build a really simple canopy structure over the path and mount the solar cells on that! There are plenty of different materials they could have used and designed it in a way to look nice. I can't believe these moronic "solar roadway" ideas were allowed to go forward.
Don't forget maintenance: overhead panels may last 20+ years with little to no maintenance besides the occasional scrubbing to remove stuck-on stuff while something on the ground may require polishing 2-3 times per year and replacement every 3-5 years to produce meaningful output. While total initial costs may end up about the same including the standard bicycle path under overhead panels and a support structure strong enough to safely bear the worst-case snow and ice that may pile on the panels during winter, the overhead panels will likely last 5X as long on average while producing twice as much power and requiring far less on-going maintenance. The smart money is on above-ground panels, no contest there.
I can suggest two ways to double the efficiency of this installation: 1 - Mount high-powered lights over the bike path, so that they are illuminated 24 hours a day. Of course you'd need to power them with another source, completely defeating the purpose of the installation, but the SOLAR PANELS would produce twice their current output! 2 - Wait about 500 million years. By then the sun will be about twice as bright as it is now, and the panels will produce twice as much energy. Plus, since all human life (and pretty well every other form of mammalian life) would be extinct there wouldn't be all those annoying cyclists blocking out the light!
Never, capitalism... Suck it from the people and put it in this kind of failing projects. Eventually, the citizens will eventually pay.. Source: I'm a Dutch citizen.
I'm behind the 8ball on this - I understand that maybe the technology isnt there yet but why is everyone "fundamentally" having a problem with solar roads? Just like everything it can sometimes be an iterative process to work through the issues. I get the argument that dirt will be a problem but there are potential solutions, I'd imagine. So it seems that a lot of people believe the inherent issues haven't been solved, potentially never will be solved, yet governments keep getting ripped off by the idea. So is it that until these issues are really working at an acceptable efficiency it's a dumb investment, or is there some other specific Im not aware. Thanks! After watching the entire video, I think I see exactly what's going on. It doesn't make economic sense for large projects to be done by this yet it keeps getting done. It's a waste of resources in its current state.
@@FreejackVesa Your thinking (not unreasonble BTW) is exactly what they prey on. It doesn't matter how much money and tiem you spend on the development of solar roadways, it's will ALWAYS be VASTLY more expensive, and VASTLY less reliabe than existing optimised rooftop/commercial solar panels. Always. So until you have put those cost and reliability optimised panels on EVERY rooftop and every parking lot etc, THEN we can talk about solar roadways.
@@EEVblog I very much see your perspective now, and I agree. I've often wondered about solar underlayments or photovoltaic "paint" or something similar that could be put in vehicles. I'm sure this also has all kinds of issues but even just a solar panel on the roof would be effective. I know nothing about solar panel engineering so I'm not going to pretend to know if this is a good idea, but I always imagined a future where your car could generate electricity via solar and it could either be used by the car or sold back to the grid or something. I believe we would need much more efficient photovoltaics before that would be possible, but I don't rightly know. Anyway, I love your channel, please keep up the good work. Love seeing topics that discuss the economics and realities of certain technology. Thanks
4:05 Translation Presenter: We can generate 10% of our provincial demand with this solar cycleway. Cyclist: [referring to the numbers on the screen, I guess?] That's around a quarter of what was intended. The idea was to generate energy for forty households, and that became ten households, so that's quite disappointing. Edit: left out 10% 😅
Dave, you have also pointed out in one of your videos how a shadow from something as small as the antenna on the roof can have such a negative impact on the output from a set of solar panels. Shadows from people walking and riding on the solar bike ways are going to be larger than the thin(ish) line of an antenna and would certainly contribute to some of the loss in yield. I wonder how many more of these hair brain solar installations we will see before these types of projects will be laughed at by the politicians and city planners that have been accepting them to date.
Shadows from minor obstructions only make a significant difference on string solar installations. And even then the effect is wildly exaggerated by sellers of equipment that fixes the problem. I would hope that’s not the topology they used for this stuff.
Video translation: "10% of energy needed to provide the province of Utrecht with light can be generated from this bike lane [not sure what light they mean]....[another guy stops on the bike and continues]...that is a quarter of the projected output, the original goal [idea] was to power 40 households but now it at 10 so that's a disappointment"
Provincial lighting, that should be the lampposts at the N roads. But seriously, if that’s only 40 households worth (making the whole system for the province equivalent to 400 houses) that’s frankly peanuts.
we're going to need another spin-off youtube channel for just debunking solar roads every time some country decides to flush some money down the toilet with another project.
Ah yes the Dutch. Who didnt completely transform their nation to adapt to bicycles a lot more than cars. And do this kind of stuff all the time until they get it right. Yes this little country that would be a lot littler without their feats of engineering.
A decade or so ago in the US my father decided to take advantage of the grants available to get solar panels for cheap on our house. Bits were constantly failing and needing to get replaced. The real great part was when we found out they bungled part of the repair or installation and the ceiling of a room fell in.
translated.... first guy (an official) said it could do 10% of their territory lights, like lights nxt to the roads and such. nxt guy on a bike said it was intended to feed around 40 households but eventually could just feed 10
If they just 'gifted' them to people that were only required to install and use them, it would of ended up back in the grid either way, even if just by offloading it, and still most likely worked at capacity to this day. But that wouldn't be as flashy, especially if they would have donated them to a commercial solar farm, like you probably would if you were a .govern... which would still have been a much better choice, might I add. Just a thought on the waste there.
I'm Dutch. These solar cycle paths are a bad very expensive fail. As you say they where known to fail from the start. But the money is free.same as for windmills at sea that rot away and need lots of electricity for their AC/DC converter islands, airconditioners and other hardware when there is little or no wind.
Offshore wind generation has in general been very successful. Did you have some evidence of the failure of north sea wind farms to have a positive ROI? All generation has operating costs. Solar roads are just stupid form very basic first principles up. And a covered cycle path in Holland would be a godsend, the near freezing rain much of the year goes right through you as i'm sure you well know (I'm half Dutch and here with another Dutch person discussing it lol). Elevated panels would have made eminent sense.
Good thing I'm not a taxpayer in the Netherlands anymore. Also a good thing that interest rates have risen, less "free" money. BTW free money does not exist, it is the result of mismanagement at national or European level. Instead of consuming the money as free money it should be returned and put to a much better use. This 'free' money story that I hear everywhere is annoying me a lot and I can't understand that people don't see an issue with it. It's extremely short-sighted to just spend it.
@@JasperJanssen We were actually talking about that, and the wind tunnel effect as well. Louvres on one side (maybe alternating) might help stop the driving rain without creating a wind tunnel effect. Either way its better (and cheaper) than bike paths that cost 10x as much and do nothing.
Quick translation of the bit in Dutch: Man with the tie: Ten percent of all our provincial lighting can be generated with this solar cycle path. Man in the green shirt: That is about a quarter of the intended yield. The idea was to generate power for about forty households, but it only generates power for about ten households, so that's a bit disappointing.
the main thing the people responsible learn is that it makes them very rich and powerful... Which is why they keep doing it. The wasted taxpayer money is thus in their mind not wasted at all because it went right into their pockets.
Dutch video @4:00 : first person: 10% of our provincial lighting electrical needs could be generated by this bike path. Second person: expectation was to power (presumably equivalent of) 40 homes but it is actually 10 homes.
The fact of the matter is that the majority of the public and therefore all the politicians have an irrational exuberance with anything "green". Something about solar and wind causes parts of people's brains to turn off.
As a Dutch citizen and engineer i am so sorry for the waste of time, solar panels and incompetence of dutch politics. The only good thing we got out of it was a great video from you thx! I will now continue to curl up in a ball and cry.
I watched this for 3 seconds and the 1st thing that popped in my head was.... This is becoming the gift that keeps giving. Thanks Dave, I know this must be like a repetitive job but someone's gotta do it ;) How do we educate Muppets?
Why do they continue installing solar panels in roads that people can walk and drive on? Not to mention that the earth itself is not static and will create cracks. Just place them on a frame next to the road if you need to.
Why can't they just put them on the roofs? All that Money and America has Solar Roof tiles from Tesla. They might not be as efficient as other ways but they can stay clean and clear on a ROOF.
@@EEVblog We do not have the perfected roof top solar so maybe they can work on different ways of installing solar on roofs. Solar tiles on the roof while water cooling them and collected that heat energy for other uses example.
@@RabbitsInBlack That is actually a research topic !!! Things like bifacial panels and microstructured cell and glass surfaces to reduce power loss at non perpendicular illumination
So, in the entire Netherlands, NOT ONE ENGINEER could be found that could point out to them that it would be better to mount solar panels over their heads instead of underneath their feet. And here I was thinking that the Dutch are relatively smart...
Dutch translation of the video shown at 4:04. The solar road generates only 25% of the energy it supposed to generate. It was supposed to generate elektricity for 40 households but it only generates for 10 households.
A bigger problem is that the capacity of the electricity grid in The Netherlands is insufficient for the supply of electricity generated by solar panels. Thicker cables must be laid in the ground and new substations must be installed.
Also, being in Northern Europe, you get very little generation in mid-winter when you need the power to drive street lamps. In the summer when you get most output you don’t need street lights until late in the evening.
Are they doing this on purpose ? Power companies make a lot of money selling coal and natural gas, they don't want to be replaced by solar. Is this a thing so that they can say that we tried solar power and it didn't work?
@@EEVblog i dont know if its funny or sad that you dont get their point that these diversion tactics and stalling are visibly funded by old power. You literally have solar, and an EV, its not like you dont see the opportunities. Its very unfortunate you dont get that the majority of your article sounds like 'solar bad'. I dont know if thats because the fact rooftop solar works is just a given to you, or you know that its red meat to your base.
We are the most chauvinist country on earth, I believe. According to many Dutch people (I can't speak for Swedes), The Netherlands is the absolute pinnacle of human achievement. Everything that is done or proposed here is the absolute best in the world. There is no corruption, and everyone is happy... In fact our country is deeply corrupt and our politicians are either dumb or complicit. But no one, even the media, talks about the many problems. We have an 'Ostrich Effect' issue. Stick your head in the sand!! Nothing could ever be wrong here!!
@@onradioactivewavesprobably something to do with Bidens "green new deal" so they spent a million to keep the US off their back. Probably some political jargon that says if you don't actively try and help the environment you have to pay a penalty. Like millionaires renting out luxury homes and yachts at unrealistic prices that drive customers away so at the end of the year they can declare it a failed bussiness and avoid paying hundreds of thousands in taxes across their successful businesses.
They should just switch to doing solar footpaths and simply forbid pedestrians to use and walk over them in order to avoid panels getting damaged or their surface too scratched and dirty. /s
They would also have to ban the weather from raining on it, the wind blowing dirt / debris over it, and the birds pooping on it. On a roof no worries, but on the ground where the dirt and grime settles and rain puddles smh.
They'd need to polish the panels at least once a year after the snow melts to smooth out the bulk of scratches from the last season, then they may get a month or two of decent output (50% of target instead of 25%) out of them. One problem with putting solar panels above foot/bicycle/vehicle traffic in snow and ice prone climates is the potentially deadly snow and ice sheets that may fall from them.
Another problem is flat panels on the ground automatically lose a huge percentage of their ability to produce power from the position alone, but people who think this stuff's a good idea refuse to listen
Preferably you would only install them on roads that go from east to west or vice versa, so that the snow would always slip off away from the road. Though I think climate change is taking care of that as well right now.
@@InfernosReaper I didn't forget about the angle issue with ground-mounted panels, that is what I had in mind with "50% of target" assuming the project's target was seemingly set by omitting that already based on how the functional half only delivered 26% of target for the first two years and fixing the other half didn't improve that at all, likely due to the first half being scrap already.
check the solar power tug boat conversion - 4x a ID3 battery of 60 kWh = 240 kWh for a swedish tug boat to run in the harbour. You can find that in the swedish channel with english content called flying tool he also build another battery from an id.3 and created a highvolt home storage out of that like a powerstation you know, which means he put the battery on a trailer, for enough power during camping activites and so on.
I'm like 90% sure it would have been cheaper to put them above an existing cycling path than to make a road out of them. And they probably would actually work.
dunno why dont see bus stops with solar panel roofs there is more then ample space to put the inverters and some batteries in the ad boxes on the side of them
I cycle on that path regularly, and I'm actually surprised it's still operating. From how quickly the panels turned gray, I figured yields must have been so bad they would have given up on it by now. Guess I was right about the first part but not the second... I will say this, though: it is a nice surface for riding on. 😁
Well they better figure out some sort of alternative energy soon. Strategic Petroleum reserve in the USA is down to under 50% (never been under 90% in its history) What value is a combustion engine if there is no fuel to burn?
you know the solar rail would actualy be the least bad because they wont get loaded by the trains they run after all on the steel rails. the PV would be between and to the side of the rails. but still all the shading and high speed trains will deposit a lot of grime on those.
I just wonder why people think that solar farms (on the ground) or solar roads would ever be a good idea. We have so much roof space that is unused and ready for installation.
On top of that, Netherlands isn’t even a great place for solar power. In places like Portugal, Greece and Turkey, the same panels would produce so much more. Just go with wind power if you live far away from the equator.
Hey Dave, what do you think about the Swiss startup Sun-ways, that is tests it's removable solar panels along swiss railway tracks ? Another video please !
How much was the GHG budget of manufacture and installation? Will the panels ever pay back that budget? Which is the entire point of using solar. Never? Why do this? That much concrete and mineral mining they never had a chance.
The appeal of a project that allows the average resident to physically touch and interact with a "green" installation is just too much for a politician to give up on. They don't want to put in on rooftops away from your sight, they want to rub it in your face so you can see just how much of an amazing environmentalist they are. Efficiency be damned!
@EEVblog I truly am sorry... and sad... There's way too many these schemes getting money whilst that money should go to homeowners to put it on the roof. These people just subsidise their friends this way. Most of us dont care though, struggling to get by or get somewhere. This is blatant corruption in disguise.
Time to start asking the politicians to pay for their mistakes, and have the residents of that area vote them out. Or ask for their money back, as this was doomed from the beginning, and has plenty of history of how it is a failure.
you must be a Putin-bot😃
They don't! The mindset here in The Netherlands is, citizen is a good cash cow, so unlimited money!
Talking about mistakes and how we handle it over here (The Netherlands):
Rutte dropped the cabinet in 2021 because of a childcare benefits scandal. then he participated again in the next elections! And guess what, he became the prime minister one more time! After the new cabinet, he didn't bother? Mistake? What mistake? It was on the last one (cabinet), not this one, so no worries..
alocating funds to friends...subsidised enrichment, corruption
Got rope?
Agreed, we need nuclear reactors not stupid ass windmills solar panels and dams every 5 meters.
To be fair they're slowly working it out. They figured vehicular traffic was too much for the panels, so they're trying it with bikes. Maybe they'll try with just pedestrians next, then no traffic at all. Next they could maybe elevate it and angle it to catch more sunlight. Just a suggestion.
but before they'll try out solar freaking tennis courts, and solar freaking golf courts ;-)
I'm wondering, as the contact area of a bike tyre is significantly smaller than a car tyre, and there's only two of them, how comparable the pressure on the road surface is.
To use solar panels as a traffic surface is bollocks, no matter how you look at it.
@@Croz89 Per Wikipedia "Ground pressure":
Human male (130 kg, standing on one foot) 55 kPa
Average human, flat shoes 17 kPa
Passenger car 205 kPa
Mountain bicycle 245 kPa
Road racing bicycle 620 kPa
Stiletto heel 3,250 kPa
@@0LoneTech Thanks! So arguably a solar bike path is actually a *worse* idea than a solar roadway! (assuming similar levels of traffic, but it's the Netherlands, so that's probably a given). Probably even worse than a typical road bike with heavy Dutch style bicycles.
Putting them over a cycle path:
•provides shade
•cheaper
•easier to replace individual pannels
•more sun coverage
•lasts years
•no major alterations of existing infrastructure
Putting them on the ground:
•costly
•pannels encased in concret
•hard to replace individual pannels
•dirt
•people shading the panels
•flat
•short lifespan
•require full demolition of existing pathways
😂😂😂😂😂
You're making too much sense so it's a given politicians won't go for it.
Also bicyclists don't slide off and fall
But that would actually work. We can’t have that.
@@williamwalker8107If politician won't go for the cheapest and more reliable option, we should unite and build it ourselves
But there comes a very strict regulation that prevents anyone from doing such a good job and ideas that makes sense, sad reality
Also shelter from rain🌦☔, and lighting💡could be installed underneath.
3:50 It just shows how low their expectations were that they didn't immediately flag the half output as a sign of improper connection when first installing it.
low expectations , or low knowledge.
I’d love to see a cost analysis of installing posts, etc., and building a solar-roofed shelter over top of a regular path-using regular panels-versus the cost of the special panels needed for roadways.
Yeah, all they had to do was build a really simple canopy structure over the path and mount the solar cells on that! There are plenty of different materials they could have used and designed it in a way to look nice. I can't believe these moronic "solar roadway" ideas were allowed to go forward.
Like srs they far more effective while also providing shade
Before even thinking of covering bike paths with solar, how about first covering all those industiral roofs? Much more cost effective.
Don't forget maintenance: overhead panels may last 20+ years with little to no maintenance besides the occasional scrubbing to remove stuck-on stuff while something on the ground may require polishing 2-3 times per year and replacement every 3-5 years to produce meaningful output. While total initial costs may end up about the same including the standard bicycle path under overhead panels and a support structure strong enough to safely bear the worst-case snow and ice that may pile on the panels during winter, the overhead panels will likely last 5X as long on average while producing twice as much power and requiring far less on-going maintenance.
The smart money is on above-ground panels, no contest there.
I would expect roofing over the paths to be *much* more expensive than that, tbh.
I can suggest two ways to double the efficiency of this installation:
1 - Mount high-powered lights over the bike path, so that they are illuminated 24 hours a day. Of course you'd need to power them with another source, completely defeating the purpose of the installation, but the SOLAR PANELS would produce twice their current output!
2 - Wait about 500 million years. By then the sun will be about twice as bright as it is now, and the panels will produce twice as much energy. Plus, since all human life (and pretty well every other form of mammalian life) would be extinct there wouldn't be all those annoying cyclists blocking out the light!
I can't believe it's still a thing. When will those people even learn?
When there is still a free government teet to suck money off, someone will be there to suck it!
Never, capitalism... Suck it from the people and put it in this kind of failing projects. Eventually, the citizens will eventually pay..
Source: I'm a Dutch citizen.
I'm behind the 8ball on this - I understand that maybe the technology isnt there yet but why is everyone "fundamentally" having a problem with solar roads? Just like everything it can sometimes be an iterative process to work through the issues. I get the argument that dirt will be a problem but there are potential solutions, I'd imagine. So it seems that a lot of people believe the inherent issues haven't been solved, potentially never will be solved, yet governments keep getting ripped off by the idea. So is it that until these issues are really working at an acceptable efficiency it's a dumb investment, or is there some other specific Im not aware. Thanks!
After watching the entire video, I think I see exactly what's going on. It doesn't make economic sense for large projects to be done by this yet it keeps getting done. It's a waste of resources in its current state.
@@FreejackVesa Your thinking (not unreasonble BTW) is exactly what they prey on. It doesn't matter how much money and tiem you spend on the development of solar roadways, it's will ALWAYS be VASTLY more expensive, and VASTLY less reliabe than existing optimised rooftop/commercial solar panels. Always. So until you have put those cost and reliability optimised panels on EVERY rooftop and every parking lot etc, THEN we can talk about solar roadways.
@@EEVblog I very much see your perspective now, and I agree. I've often wondered about solar underlayments or photovoltaic "paint" or something similar that could be put in vehicles. I'm sure this also has all kinds of issues but even just a solar panel on the roof would be effective. I know nothing about solar panel engineering so I'm not going to pretend to know if this is a good idea, but I always imagined a future where your car could generate electricity via solar and it could either be used by the car or sold back to the grid or something. I believe we would need much more efficient photovoltaics before that would be possible, but I don't rightly know. Anyway, I love your channel, please keep up the good work. Love seeing topics that discuss the economics and realities of certain technology. Thanks
4:05 Translation
Presenter: We can generate 10% of our provincial demand with this solar cycleway.
Cyclist: [referring to the numbers on the screen, I guess?] That's around a quarter of what was intended. The idea was to generate energy for forty households, and that became ten households, so that's quite disappointing.
Edit: left out 10% 😅
Dave, you have also pointed out in one of your videos how a shadow from something as small as the antenna on the roof can have such a negative impact on the output from a set of solar panels. Shadows from people walking and riding on the solar bike ways are going to be larger than the thin(ish) line of an antenna and would certainly contribute to some of the loss in yield. I wonder how many more of these hair brain solar installations we will see before these types of projects will be laughed at by the politicians and city planners that have been accepting them to date.
The fence and weeds were shading it too.
Shadows from minor obstructions only make a significant difference on string solar installations. And even then the effect is wildly exaggerated by sellers of equipment that fixes the problem. I would hope that’s not the topology they used for this stuff.
Video translation: "10% of energy needed to provide the province of Utrecht with light can be generated from this bike lane [not sure what light they mean]....[another guy stops on the bike and continues]...that is a quarter of the projected output, the original goal [idea] was to power 40 households but now it at 10 so that's a disappointment"
Provincial lighting, that should be the lampposts at the N roads. But seriously, if that’s only 40 households worth (making the whole system for the province equivalent to 400 houses) that’s frankly peanuts.
With that after 10 months of use photo, without knowing it was a solar panel I would not have thought it was one, it looks just like a concrete slab.
we're going to need another spin-off youtube channel for just debunking solar roads every time some country decides to flush some money down the toilet with another project.
EEVdebunk
Ah yes the Dutch. Who didnt completely transform their nation to adapt to bicycles a lot more than cars. And do this kind of stuff all the time until they get it right. Yes this little country that would be a lot littler without their feats of engineering.
"How many times do we have to teach you this lesson, old man??"
-Everyone
But all the rooftops are already covered with... no, wait.
Never mind!
Pretty darn close to it. The only roofs missing Solar these days are the ones that refuse it.
A decade or so ago in the US my father decided to take advantage of the grants available to get solar panels for cheap on our house.
Bits were constantly failing and needing to get replaced. The real great part was when we found out they bungled part of the repair or installation and the ceiling of a room fell in.
@@JasperJanssendelusional
With all the projects that have failed and are ongoing i need a helpful overview chart to keep track. This is too much :D
A comprehesive chart of all installations would be fantastic!
translated.... first guy (an official) said it could do 10% of their territory lights, like lights nxt to the roads and such. nxt guy on a bike said it was intended to feed around 40 households but eventually could just feed 10
If they just 'gifted' them to people that were only required to install and use them, it would of ended up back in the grid either way, even if just by offloading it, and still most likely worked at capacity to this day. But that wouldn't be as flashy, especially if they would have donated them to a commercial solar farm, like you probably would if you were a .govern... which would still have been a much better choice, might I add. Just a thought on the waste there.
Prounounced as Martinsdake for the Aussie speaking. Just the A in Martin is a little longer.
Do any Solar installations ever meet their estimated generation targets though...
I'm Dutch. These solar cycle paths are a bad very expensive fail.
As you say they where known to fail from the start. But the money is free.same as for windmills at sea that rot away and need lots of electricity for their AC/DC converter islands, airconditioners and other hardware when there is little or no wind.
Offshore wind generation has in general been very successful. Did you have some evidence of the failure of north sea wind farms to have a positive ROI? All generation has operating costs. Solar roads are just stupid form very basic first principles up.
And a covered cycle path in Holland would be a godsend, the near freezing rain much of the year goes right through you as i'm sure you well know (I'm half Dutch and here with another Dutch person discussing it lol). Elevated panels would have made eminent sense.
Good thing I'm not a taxpayer in the Netherlands anymore. Also a good thing that interest rates have risen, less "free" money. BTW free money does not exist, it is the result of mismanagement at national or European level. Instead of consuming the money as free money it should be returned and put to a much better use. This 'free' money story that I hear everywhere is annoying me a lot and I can't understand that people don't see an issue with it. It's extremely short-sighted to just spend it.
@@mycosyscovered cycle paths don’t do shit against sideways rain, though, and that’s what you get when it’s actually bad.
@@mycosys successful in that it does produce energy, no so much when one considers cost to benefit ratios
@@JasperJanssen We were actually talking about that, and the wind tunnel effect as well. Louvres on one side (maybe alternating) might help stop the driving rain without creating a wind tunnel effect. Either way its better (and cheaper) than bike paths that cost 10x as much and do nothing.
Quick translation of the bit in Dutch:
Man with the tie: Ten percent of all our provincial lighting can be generated with this solar cycle path.
Man in the green shirt: That is about a quarter of the intended yield. The idea was to generate power for about forty households, but it only generates power for about ten households, so that's a bit disappointing.
Lighting typically is not used when the sun is shining so they would need batteries.
But Dave, they learn so much from each experimental roadway! I'm sure the next one will work! They just need to make it bigger!
"We'll make it up in volume!"
the main thing the people responsible learn is that it makes them very rich and powerful... Which is why they keep doing it.
The wasted taxpayer money is thus in their mind not wasted at all because it went right into their pockets.
Im holding out 4 the thorium solar roadways
Or just ride the Bike in a nice optimum angle !
Dutch video @4:00 : first person: 10% of our provincial lighting electrical needs could be generated by this bike path. Second person: expectation was to power (presumably equivalent of) 40 homes but it is actually 10 homes.
The fact of the matter is that the majority of the public and therefore all the politicians have an irrational exuberance with anything "green". Something about solar and wind causes parts of people's brains to turn off.
Its not irrational.
We're murdering the planet and solar is literally free.
That's why people want it to work.
greetings from the NL. Besides burning EV's of the coast we also have these "experiments" which aren't because we already know the answer.
Clearly these things can't handle being outside. We should try installing them in tunnels. Lit tunnels, obviously.
As a Dutch citizen and engineer i am so sorry for the waste of time, solar panels and incompetence of dutch politics.
The only good thing we got out of it was a great video from you thx! I will now continue to curl up in a ball and cry.
I watched this for 3 seconds and the 1st thing that popped in my head was.... This is becoming the gift that keeps giving.
Thanks Dave, I know this must be like a repetitive job but someone's gotta do it ;)
How do we educate Muppets?
It’s the gift that keeps on giving!
Why do they continue installing solar panels in roads that people can walk and drive on?
Not to mention that the earth itself is not static and will create cracks.
Just place them on a frame next to the road if you need to.
The path is 2.8x300m , and 200kW. The cost of normal panels of this capacity is much less than 50k Euro. This installation cost 1.3M Euro...
But "Innovation"
I still don't understand why they don't put them over the road, or next to it and provide some shade
Hi, from The Netherlands. Saw this in the newspaper and immediately thought when will EEVblog mention it 😊.
I am so ashamed of my country :(
why wouldn't you just put the solar panels above the bike path so you get power and shade.
and some protection from rain and snow
Why can't they just put them on the roofs? All that Money and America has Solar Roof tiles from Tesla. They might not be as efficient as other ways but they can stay clean and clear on a ROOF.
Grifters gonna grift 🤷♂️
it's not revolutionary enough so it does not get government funding
It's not "innovative", so the politician don't approve the budget to virtue signal.
@@EEVblog We do not have the perfected roof top solar so maybe they can work on different ways of installing solar on roofs. Solar tiles on the roof while water cooling them and collected that heat energy for other uses example.
@@RabbitsInBlack That is actually a research topic !!! Things like bifacial panels and microstructured cell and glass surfaces to reduce power loss at non perpendicular illumination
Will you install solar driveway at home soon?
Next, Solar Subways. (sarcasm)
Blatant corruption
it might not be too late yet, is it possible to raise the existing panels so they actually generate non-zero power?
The scientific and technical illiteracy of politicians and investors is absolutely mind-blowing.
So, in the entire Netherlands, NOT ONE ENGINEER could be found that could point out to them that it would be better to mount solar panels over their heads instead of underneath their feet. And here I was thinking that the Dutch are relatively smart...
Dutch translation of the video shown at 4:04. The solar road generates only 25% of the energy it supposed to generate. It was supposed to generate elektricity for 40 households but it only generates for 10 households.
A bigger problem is that the capacity of the electricity grid in The Netherlands is insufficient for the supply of electricity generated by solar panels. Thicker cables must be laid in the ground and new substations must be installed.
The MCG has got a fairly large area so perhaps we could cover that?
wait.. around 5:00 did it drop "by" 26% or "to" 26%
Literally WHY NOT make shade for people while making electricity. The sun is a deadly Lazer and whatnot.
Also, being in Northern Europe, you get very little generation in mid-winter when you need the power to drive street lamps. In the summer when you get most output you don’t need street lights until late in the evening.
I mean, that problem exists everywhere in the world right? You can't directly power lights by solar panel if you only use the lights when it's dark.
Love you work!
SOLAR…..FREAKING…..ROADWAYS!
Are they doing this on purpose ? Power companies make a lot of money selling coal and natural gas, they don't want to be replaced by solar. Is this a thing so that they can say that we tried solar power and it didn't work?
Yes, it's on purpose, it's virtue signalling using taxpayer money.
@@EEVblog i dont know if its funny or sad that you dont get their point that these diversion tactics and stalling are visibly funded by old power. You literally have solar, and an EV, its not like you dont see the opportunities.
Its very unfortunate you dont get that the majority of your article sounds like 'solar bad'. I dont know if thats because the fact rooftop solar works is just a given to you, or you know that its red meat to your base.
Why is it always the Netherlands or Sweden?
We are the most chauvinist country on earth, I believe. According to many Dutch people (I can't speak for Swedes), The Netherlands is the absolute pinnacle of human achievement. Everything that is done or proposed here is the absolute best in the world. There is no corruption, and everyone is happy... In fact our country is deeply corrupt and our politicians are either dumb or complicit. But no one, even the media, talks about the many problems. We have an 'Ostrich Effect' issue. Stick your head in the sand!! Nothing could ever be wrong here!!
@i.k.8868 in the end we are all human. 😊
3:50 27%? That's actually more than I would've guessed!
What was Einstein's statement? Paraphrasing - repeating idiocy and expecting a different result!
Isn't that a definition a a politician?
I'm inclined to believe that someone profits from it time and again.
@@onradioactivewavesprobably something to do with Bidens "green new deal" so they spent a million to keep the US off their back.
Probably some political jargon that says if you don't actively try and help the environment you have to pay a penalty.
Like millionaires renting out luxury homes and yachts at unrealistic prices that drive customers away so at the end of the year they can declare it a failed bussiness and avoid paying hundreds of thousands in taxes across their successful businesses.
They're opening a new solar bicycle road near me next week. Also in the Netherlands.
I guess they never learn huh?
Waar is dat? Misschien een leuk uitje om te gaan lachen om de politici die er op afkomen…
@@TheRealMrSkippy Zevenbergschenhoek
They should just switch to doing solar footpaths and simply forbid pedestrians to use and walk over them in order to avoid panels getting damaged or their surface too scratched and dirty. /s
They would also have to ban the weather from raining on it, the wind blowing dirt / debris over it, and the birds pooping on it.
On a roof no worries, but on the ground where the dirt and grime settles and rain puddles smh.
DW Business are reporting PV panels proposed to be fitted on the railway sleepers along the track.
You can also install them above the path and still use the power to do whatever. This is such a fail...
They'd need to polish the panels at least once a year after the snow melts to smooth out the bulk of scratches from the last season, then they may get a month or two of decent output (50% of target instead of 25%) out of them.
One problem with putting solar panels above foot/bicycle/vehicle traffic in snow and ice prone climates is the potentially deadly snow and ice sheets that may fall from them.
Another problem is flat panels on the ground automatically lose a huge percentage of their ability to produce power from the position alone, but people who think this stuff's a good idea refuse to listen
Preferably you would only install them on roads that go from east to west or vice versa, so that the snow would always slip off away from the road. Though I think climate change is taking care of that as well right now.
@@InfernosReaper I didn't forget about the angle issue with ground-mounted panels, that is what I had in mind with "50% of target" assuming the project's target was seemingly set by omitting that already based on how the functional half only delivered 26% of target for the first two years and fixing the other half didn't improve that at all, likely due to the first half being scrap already.
but, but, room temperature superconducting solar roads!
But the linear organization may work beside bike paths and roadways when elevated
check the solar power tug boat conversion - 4x a ID3 battery of 60 kWh = 240 kWh for a swedish tug boat to run in the harbour.
You can find that in the swedish channel with english content called flying tool
he also build another battery from an id.3 and created a highvolt home storage out of that like a powerstation you know, which means he put the battery on a trailer, for enough power during camping activites and so on.
on my recent trip to austria i saw what i think was the solar railroad thing... on 50m of unused testing track in a random freight yard
Curiously, they haven't tried solar rubber tyres yet...
Put them on businesses that use the power!
Not "innovative" enough. You can't virtue signal that.
Politicians should not make technnology related decisions. You also won't go to a painter for surgery, right?
I'm like 90% sure it would have been cheaper to put them above an existing cycling path than to make a road out of them. And they probably would actually work.
dunno why dont see bus stops with solar panel roofs there is more then ample space to put the inverters and some batteries in the ad boxes on the side of them
I wonder if they cut down trees to keep them from shading the path. Three types of fail from that.
I cycle on that path regularly, and I'm actually surprised it's still operating. From how quickly the panels turned gray, I figured yields must have been so bad they would have given up on it by now. Guess I was right about the first part but not the second... I will say this, though: it is a nice surface for riding on. 😁
You would think they would have learned by now.
Cool, any chance of a video on Carbon Capture and Storage?
You cannot get good decisions out of people who face no consequences for making bad decisions.
Yes, correct. In the Netherlands government officials are inviolable (they are immune from prosecution), so corruption is rife.
Well they better figure out some sort of alternative energy soon. Strategic Petroleum reserve in the USA is down to under 50% (never been under 90% in its history)
What value is a combustion engine if there is no fuel to burn?
you know the solar rail would actualy be the least bad because they wont get loaded by the trains they run after all on the steel rails. the PV would be between and to the side of the rails. but still all the shading and high speed trains will deposit a lot of grime on those.
One brake hose on one train, hanging down and bouncing off every panel...
The longest solar cycle path in the world,how short is that list?
I just wonder why people think that solar farms (on the ground) or solar roads would ever be a good idea. We have so much roof space that is unused and ready for installation.
But, But, But.... Solar roadways make us FEEL SO GOOD, like it actually makes it LOOK like we're doing something. Even when we're not.
Every story I ever hear about them makes me realise just how right Austin Powers's dad was.
On top of that, Netherlands isn’t even a great place for solar power. In places like Portugal, Greece and Turkey, the same panels would produce so much more. Just go with wind power if you live far away from the equator.
in the case of one of them, there's literally sand being blown across it, you can see in the pics... and then bikes drive over the sand...
How is this grift still ongoing? It's been like 10 years.
The Dutch man on the bike says that it should generate electricity for 40 households, but in fact it produces only enough for 10.
I saw it in the local news and expected some comments from Dave 😄
Hey Dave, what do you think about the Swiss startup Sun-ways, that is tests it's removable solar panels along swiss railway tracks ? Another video please !
' YOU TRECK T' is close enough!...great vid...cheers.
How much was the GHG budget of manufacture and installation? Will the panels ever pay back that budget? Which is the entire point of using solar. Never? Why do this? That much concrete and mineral mining they never had a chance.
Solar panels are scam by definition.
The appeal of a project that allows the average resident to physically touch and interact with a "green" installation is just too much for a politician to give up on. They don't want to put in on rooftops away from your sight, they want to rub it in your face so you can see just how much of an amazing environmentalist they are. Efficiency be damned!
Wonder who used that very expensive premium dutch produced electricity.
did we try again? i am realy ashamed
3rd or 4th time now...
@EEVblog I truly am sorry... and sad... There's way too many these schemes getting money whilst that money should go to homeowners to put it on the roof. These people just subsidise their friends this way. Most of us dont care though, struggling to get by or get somewhere. This is blatant corruption in disguise.
Opportunity cost.
Next step: bury the solar panels.
Utrecht is pronounced like 'You-Trekked'
We had a bicycle cinema in Switzerland where you had to generate electricity by pedaling to power the projector 😂 it was just a fun idea
No doubt connecting the panels made it worst as there was more panels inceasing the effect of shading due to the larger surface area?
There are thousands of gov't buildings with bare rooftops just waiting to be put to work
I predict a great future for solar runways at airports
Put the panels above the path and bam now you have shade as well as ability to produce power win win
and protection from rain and snow win win win
Disgraceful waste of public money. Absolutely crazy!
It does my heart good.