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Nice video on amtrak and the US passenger rail system! I wanna add on some other comments in favor of the long distance routes alongside the other great comments about the benefits and improvements that could be made for the long distance system. Number 1 is that alongside the benefits to rural communities and people without the capability to do a roadtrip and fly, the long distance network actually provides a great benefit for those shorter lines which we all want. For instance, the newest amtrak service that just started this year is the Borealis train connecting st paul to chicago, and that route follows the same exact routing for the empire builder long distance service. What that means is that the track negotiations were already mostly figured out with the freight companies, the stations were all already built, and there was already a segment of people who did use the train to travel these shorter distances. So when the Borealis started service it essentially required very little investment in order to get off the ground. The reason why texas doesn't have any shorter trains connecting dallas, san antonio, austin, houston, etc is due to a law that says any amtrak route under 750 miles must be funded in part by the state government. So if the texas state government wanted to, they could absolutely use the texas eagle route as a basis for a route, which already has existing demand and basically no new infrastructure costs. They probably won't due to politics though, which is why there's only one train per day between these cities (or less). So long distance routes serve a political purpose of giving some level of rail service to states which would otherwise have no trains at all, and should favorable political conditions come around, those same long distance routes can be augmented with more frequent corridor services.
Thanks for the comment! Yes, unfortunately Texas politics is pretty terrible for train travel at the moment.... I'm not personally optimistic, but we can dream! We have an exciting guest coming up in a few weeks to talk about potential regional rail in Central Texas that we are excited to have on! Hopefully they can make me feel more optimistic about it 😅-Louis
I love Amtrak. Considering how deliberately starved for resources its been since its inception it's incredible not only that it's actually as good as it is (with those undeniable problems that will hopefully be remedied over time), but that it exists at all.
The reason why Congress or the states don't spend more for passenger trains is they read the same numbers of studies. Less than TWO percent of Americans use regional or long distance trains, not local commuter rail. Whereas some EIGHTY percent have flown, and ONE HUNDRED percent use the highways one way or another, if only to push their wheelchair across it. And that is down from FOUR percent in 1971... Unfortunately RAIL ADVOCATES fail to present these numbers... One can make the argument Amtrak is OVERFUNDED!
Technically, the priority law is enforced, it’s just that the fines Amtrak can impose are so low that none of the freight railroads care about it. They can only really fine the railroads the cost added by the delay and the loss of an on time bonus. So it is enforced, it just doesn’t bite into the railroads any.
Rail advocates fail to present the law entirely. Amtrak does get priority if the train is in its time window. Unfortunately with linear routes, running on freight tracks, Amtrak usually isn't in its time window. Furthermore freight trains are twice as long as they were in 1971 today, thus the freight railroads run most of their freight trains n different directions in time windows. However, Amtrak does not schedule its trains with any of the freight time windows in mind. It is the Amtrak train that is going the wrong direction... If Amtrak wants ON TIME performance, BUILD and MAINTAIN your own tracks. And being a former employee of a power plant using coal, I recall numerous times that 1 gigawatt power plant nearly shut down because our coal train was late. If anything considering our economy, freight SHOULD have priority with just in time deliveries to factories, passengers can arrive late...
Both the short haul and long haul should be supported. There are markets for both that can be convenient. Your comment on day trips supports this idea. I agree, Europe is better with rail travel.
You both raise some comprehensive salient points regarding Amtrak & I appreciate your comprehensive research. Have been on the Maple Leaf, The City of New Orleans & The South West Chief. Amtrak does provide a unique service compared to most European trains - traditional dining & observation car (on western long-distance services). You mentioned the low passenger numbers on the Cardinal & Sunset Limited but failed to mention that they are both only a tri-weekly service, unlike the rest of the long-distance trains. I understand a recommendation has gone to Congress to convert both to a daily service both ways. Hopefully, this should result in increased patronage. Amtrak does provide an important service to both Americans & tourists.
I can’t remember where I read this, but evidence on Amtrak suggests that when frequency doubles, ridership triples. So daily Cardinal and Sunset Limited would lead to ridership levels similar to its counterparts would that happen.
@@wp40 Really have to second you on the SLC point. Going west, the train leaves at midnight. Going east, the train leaves at 3am. The SLC "Am-shack" station is incredibly disappointing as well. Getting dropped off at 3am in a somewhat sketchy part of town is all the reason most people need to never take the train.
I love traveling by Amtrak. I’ve taken journeys around the country via rail. I can only hope that one day this country will have a robust rail system; especially mult-timed intercity travel network like Houston to Austin, SA, Dallas or New Orleans. The primary issue with a robust rail system in Texas is the airline industry; with American, United, and Southwest having hubs in the major cities with several daily flights between any city pairs. They’ll fight tooth and nail to keep their passenger loads rather than lose any to rail service
The truth is that rail advocates FAIL to mention is that the train loses the passenger ridership battle with the airlines beyond THREE hours. And Amtrak's Acela numbers on the northeast corridor proves this fact. With the less than three hour Acela journey to New York City from Washington DC, Acela wins the passenger ridership battle with all of the airlines serving those two cities airports, both having more than one airport. Great for HSR. However those numbers change significantly with the nearly four hour Acela journey New York City to Boston. Never mind those numbers for Acela with the nearly seven hour journey Washington DC to Boston, less than two percent ride Acela for the entire nearly seven hour journey... Amtrak numbers rail advocates, USE THEM... Stop baffling us with BS, dazzle us with brilliance please...
It is heartening to see next generation people interested to an increase in inter-city passenger rail. My first recollection of an overnight train trip was from Midwest to Florida, including a diner (restaurant car) and observation coach; it was a time before interstate highways existed. For the future, Amtrak planners have released routes in a plan for new service. There are gaps: PORTIONS of a future Amtrak service from Detroit Airport (DTW) to downtown Columbus, OH via Toledo, OH are shown. And although tracks exist, the missing route link not shown on their map is from south of Toledo, OH to a rail junction at 300 Washington Street, Dunkirk, OH., about 70 miles. So keep doing what you are doing; perhaps others will consider travel by rail.
20:25 Dudes, US cities are not further apart ! Distances are not big !! Yes, Austin to NYC, but that is irrelevant for trains. You fly those trips. But 50% of car trips are
Another Rochester resident, took the train to Long Island to visit relatives. Arrived on time in nyc, easy transfer to Long Island railroad. I have an electric car, so between traffic and charging time it was much more relaxing to take the train. The wifi worked very well on the train and I had my iPad and headphones, also brought snacks and drinks.
Rochester Represent! Lol. Thanks for watching! More frequent trains between all of the Upstate NY cities and down to NYC would make so much sense. It would also likely be a good region for high speed rail obviously too.... Maybe someday.... -Louis
I actually think it's reasonable to run more long-distance routes, but they should merely form the backbone for more frequent city-pair service. If you want to get a long-distance train, sure, here's your one or two per day (I think adding a second trip spaced 12h apart on each route would be a huge improvement by itself), but we also have short-haul trains between large cities along this route much more often. Having trains running end-to-end on longer routes increases the flexibility of the system, you just have to solve the freight delay problem.
Hey just found you guys; I'm a self proclaimed transit nerd. Love multimodal options in vibrant cities. I have always loved train travel, doing quite a bit growing up on the East coast, and when I've traveled abroad. Good luck building your community. Like what you're doing and agree, in order to build out mass passenger rail that's viable in the US we need an interconnected major city network of highspeed with hubs. Those long lines with low ridership drain the whole system. I live in Minneapolis and up until recently only had the Empire Builder as an option between here LaCrosse, Madison, Milwaukee and Chicago, but now have dedicated service...the challenge though has/will always been the amount of time it takes to get there. Cheers!
Thanks for watching! I saw the new Borealis route they added there not long ago which is exciting! Hopefully in time it will increase in frequency, and improvements to the tracks can increase speed as well. Probably not coming any time soon, but we can dream 😅 Appreciate the comment. -Louis
The Bi-Partisan Infrastructure Law is doing a lot to fund in-the-works projects on the NEC, Borealis, California lines, etc. which is great, and more investment than Amtrak has seen in decades. That said, there needs to be extreme emphasis on having higher-speed lines between large city pairs that have already long drive times, despite interstate access. The S-Line in NC/VA/GA is huge example of Amtrak focusing more on city pairs instead of just allowing those long-distance routes to service places along the way. The Texas Triangle, Ohio, New England, and the Front Range need 110mph+ trains connecting the massive cities in those areas, providing reliable local service, while places like Michigan, Pennsylvania, New York state, and the Cascades deserve more service, better frequencies, and overall - BETTER MARKETING.
I currently live in North Carolina and we have great Amtrak train service here. We have multiple trains a day. The Crescent connects the 2 major Cities Charlotte, Greensboro and the line ends in NYC on one end and New Orleans on the other. On top of that we have the Piedmont that has 5 trains a day going from Charlotte to Raleigh and ending in NYC, and finally the Carolinian that has 4 trains a day from Charlotte to Raleigh.
@@Truckdriverplays The state doesn't pay 100% of it. The state is in partnership with Amtrak to run The Piedmont and The Carolinian. Both train run on CSX and Norfolk & Southern owned tracks.
When I was in school we used to take the train from Richmond VA to NYC (80s). It was so much easier than driving (and parking). Even having to change from diesel to electric in DC it only took around 6 hours to get there. I wish that option was available in cities outside of the NE
I agree with you about shorter cities pairs as it is high-speed service like Atlanta to Memphis, Memphis to Chicago or Memphis to New Orleans and many other city pairs, that would let individuals to travel anywhere in the lower 48 states.
I think Arkansas needs a another line NWA to Little Rock have a stop in fort smith and go to Tulsa and finish in Oklahoma City. NWA to Kansas City and Little Rock to Memphis
I think the future of passenger rail will be emphasis on high-speed rail on shorter oorridors like the Dallas-Houston-San Antonio "triangle," where there is enough ridership to justify the enormous expense of building high-speed rail on grade-separated tracks. I can also see major improvements done to the Northeast Corridor to dramatically increase the speed along the way.
And Columbus, GA is left out in the Cold... Again. Still looking for that Atlanta rail-link that was dismantled when the Man O'War was terminated back in 1970.
I heard you mention single door bonding in NYC. Last time I took amtrak out of NYC, this wasn't w thing. The only time I've experienced this was leaving Penn Starion via LIRR. They started/considered doing this for LIRR out of major stations because fare evasion is so bad here. People will hide in bathrooms or not activate tickets to avoid paying.
Great episode. I've priced out and looked at Amtrak many many times from Dallas to Austin or Dallas to San Antonio and even if the 10+ hour ride was worth it, the cost usually isn't if you're traveling with a family.
Yeah it is tough when the price isn't competitive and the amount of time is almost always just worse. Sometimes it can work, but most of the time you have to go out of your way to use it outside of the northeast. Maybe someday🤞! Thanks for the comment 🙌 -Louis
My experience riding Amtrak's River Runner and Lincoln Service from Columbia, MO to Chicago was really nice. I was fortunate and got to ride on the new Venture coach cars. The windows were large, the cars felt open and clean and breathable, and I even brought my bike on the whole trip. Really enjoyed my experience, but on the way home I missed my train and unfortunately got stranded in Chicago for a whole day.
Louis, so you are from Rochester? I've lived here all my life. And I've been a passenger rail advocate most of my life, ever since I took a vacation in Europe. We traveled all around Europe without ever stepping foot in a car... something unimaginable here in the States. But there is one very big difference between us and them. Cities in Europe are the destinations. NOT the suburbs around the cities as it is here. So once you get to a city in Europe, you are where you want to be, you don't need to then rent a car to get you that final 10 (or 30) miles. And there is an excellent (wonderful) transit system set up if you don't wish to rent a car. Europeans would never think of building a shopping center, or nursing home or apartment building that was not on a transit line. But they do that here all the time. BUT Most Americans know very little about how trains and transit work. Right now, Amtrak is slower, more inconvenient, and more expensive than Airlines. Passenger Rail has only gotten this way since the end of WWII. So, it took only 25 years after WWII for the automobile to completely ruin and destroy our passenger rail network in the United States... this would include Intercity Rail, Trolleys (Street Cars) and Interurbans (long-distance Street Cars). Trolleys were used within the city to get around, and Interubrans connected the city with smaller outlying Villages, Cities and County Seats. Intercity Rail connected all the major cities in the United States together. In 1925, there was not a Village, City or Hamlet in New York State that you could not get to by rail. All trolleys/interurbans were electrified rail, and the intercity passenger could have been easily electrified making a system completely GREEN. Think of the position that would put the USA in when it comes to Climate Change and Global Warming? Fast forward to TODAY, almost 75 years after WWII, and we have Suburbs, pretty much as far as the eye can see, Cities are losing population (White Flight caused this in the early '60s and continues today). But we need to reverse this trend to combat Climate Change. Rural America NY is gaining population, at the chagrin of those who currently live there (i.e. Urban America is losing population they can't afford to lose, and Rural America is gaining population that that the residents don't want) There is no way to connect our Suburbs ecologically, except by EVs, which is a very expensive proposition to keep Global Warming at bay. When if we just kept what we had, we would have much more room for more 'foreigners' and room for more farmland (which I believe is much of the reason Europe kept its intercity rail, Interurbans, and street car systems (I suppose WWII whipping everything out also had something to do with it). Keep up the good work you young'uns.
Yes! Grew up in Rochester from age 4 through high school. I still get back a few times a year to visit family. Thankyou for the thoughtful comment! -Louis
The Cardinal is actually a spectacular route by the way, and it's beyond vital for the cities it serves along its route. Part of its problem is that it's a 3x weekly service. If it were daily like the Empire Builder, or the Silver Meteor, it would see much better numbers. The Cardinal is regularly a quite full train, especially since it's the only train that hits big cities like Cincinnati, Indianapolis, and Charleston. Also having ridden the Cardinal myself, it's a highly enjoyable trip with excellent views. If you're on the East Coast it's a really cool way to get up to Chicago and I don't think it should be written off by any means.
The Pacific Surfliner has some serious issues despite its ridership numbers. Mostly notably is that some tracks frequently wash out from coastal erosion, with the worst area around San Clemente. NIMBYs are trying to stop tunneling efforts around Del Mar, another segment with coastal erosion. Caltrans is at least solving the worst of the at-grade crossings. Also, the Hiawatha has impressive numbers for a line that is only 90 miles long as it runs between Chicago and Milwaukee. Re: Montana. Montana plans to sponsor a train across the state. Surprising but true. They already have the line. I believe Missoula to Billings, though I could have the endpoints wrong.
Without even meaning to, this freight rail priority issue is an issue my newish TH-cam channel keeps on coming back to. Because of that, there are a lot of things and feelings I’ll share here… First, I should note that a few weeks after this video was released, the feds sued Norfolk Southern for allegedly causing delays on the Crescent line. I wished this happened sooner in the Biden administration, but I’m glad the powers that be are finally doing something. The frustrating thing about the lack of interest in freight rail interferences is as follows: 1. Some politicians complain about how much money Amtrak loses. 2. Amtrak says that these interferences lose them money. 3. Said politicians seem to have little interest in the interferences that cost them money. It’s frustrating because if politicians wanted to look at the root causes of why Amtrak loses money (not that their turning a profit is important to me, though some politicians would disagree with me), they should look at the freight rail interference issue. But they aren’t, and that is frustrating. Amtrak themselves have made an issue of the freight rail interference issue in the last several years, at least. So I wonder if the law on freight rail interference should be amended so that Amtrak can directly sue fright rail companies, without having to go through any layers in the federal government. Anywho, those are my thoughts. Great episode!
It is easier for a dispatcher to shove a 6-car amtrak into a siding than a mile-long freight. I rode the long-promised high-speed rail connection between Chicago and St Louis. I rode from '06 to '18 and it still is not finished. And the section that was completed couldn't reach max speed because the passenger cars weren't built for speeds over 100 or 110. Billions spent for a small time decrease. Until Alton-St Louis can be untangled, it's still a promise unfullfilled.
Thanks again for covering the law that gives passenger rail priority over freight. The reason that it is not enforced appears to come down to politics and profit.
To solve this problem the federal government and state government would have to take over the ownership of the mainlines and the maintenance of and also start construction of new replacement corridors which would keep freight and passenger rail separated on their own right of way with both trackage being designed for high-speed (i. e. a railroad freeway system with one side being for freight trains and the other side being for high-speed passenger trains.
Another profitable train is Auto Train to and from Central Florida with your car.. Saves the effort of driving but it takes forever to load and unload train.. I took it a year ago and it was packed... A lot of users got a sleeper but the cost was very high.. The Silver Service trains make the stops without the cars..
I haven't thought much about the auto train to have strong feelings about it, but it certainly is pretty unique! Thanks for sharing a bit of your experience with it. - Louis
From a different angle, we must maintain and expand our rail service, for National Security. In the event of National Security issues, we need to move troops and military vehicles to where they are needed, reliably.
First of all I'm glad you did this one as about 5 months ago you unjustifiably trashed Amtrak and compared it to the new, and unjustified, "private" rail (that is fully privately owned but heavily financed by the public). Amtrak provides an important service for the public under very difficult circumstances, with very low budgets, reluctant to enforce laws and the obligation to run services regardless of the situation. Just a reminder - during Covid Amtrak and all other public transit systems continued to serve the public under problematic conditions, as it should be, while the all favorite Brightline just shut down service completely for 18 months. As for shorter routs. They can't provide those on their own which is why the leave the longer routs alive as they are crucial for many low income people with no other affordable option. Amtrak cannot operate lines up to 750 miles. Those lines can only be operated with the participation and financing of the states and a many of them, like Texas, will never do it without a political change. The only way to provide service is through those long lines. Any new law will have to address this problem, together with the priority for passenger rail. As or the cars. The shorter rout ones will be replaced by the Siemens Venture cars. In the Midwest and California San Joaquins line they already replaced some of the cars (they have problems with the restaurant/business ones) but thos, aid by the states, are pretty cheaply built (the interioe, not the cars themselves). The Amtrak ones should start entering service in 2027/27 ans should be of higher quality and comfort. Amtrak also looking at replacements for the long distance onnes.
I'm originally from Ohio and the passenger rail connecting the 3 C's (Cleveland, Columbus and Cincinnati) has been studied for the last 50 years, and nothing ever comes from it. Amtrak is once again studying it, but the Ohio Legislature won't do anything to assist or promise any type of funding. This is a great loss for Ohio citizens.
I also wanna quickly say, the reason why there's a massive long distance train route through montana is because there is a very strong activist organization which has been lobbying for passenger rail through that part of montana for years now, and has gained significant political support from their members of congress. It may not seem like much to outsiders but the route that is proposed would run through essentially all the largest cities in the state, alongside the state capitol. So all that to say, anything is possible if you fight for it lol
Houston isn’t included because Texas politicians don’t want to pay for while the restoration of the North Coast Hiawatha, the line thru Montana, is heavily supported by local politicians plus US Senators and advocacy groups. Plus it would get another train added to the Chicago to Twin Cities corridor.
I don't agree with your take on the long distance trains. As for some states thats the only train service in the entire state. The provide a service that otherwise would not be there. I do believe we need to increase the frequencies on these long distance trains. Maybe run the service twice a day, track improvements and updated equipment. Long distance trains can be great it just takes investment in them. Also when it comes to regional services, (higher speed rail and High Speed Rail) Run more trains. 1 per hour (each way) should be the standard. Also if Amtrak just focused solely on Big City pairs, support would weaken. Amtrak is a national passenger rail carrier. Which means everyone. Everyone should have access to rail not only people who live in big cities.
A lot of mistakes. Sightseer lounge. Empire Builder Seattle or Portland to Chicago not New York. Coast Starlight to Los Angeles not San Diego. At least in my part of the country, the dispatchers do make Amtrak trains priority. It isn’t always as easy as you seem to think it is. Long distance trains are important to smaller cities in the west that don’t have access to air travel. They depend on Amtrak
Now that freight consists are upwards of 2 miles long and more, they're whining that they can't yield the ROW to Amtrak because their sidings aren't long enough any more. 😢😢 Poor babies. I'd like to see the Surface Transportation Board mandate that freight consists cannot exceed the length of sidings, and oh, brother, they'd be building sidings and double tracking faster than we could imagine.
Amtrak is wasting $36 Billion of their grant money building a tunnel into New York City. Another $18 Billion on things that don't work at all. Now the new is, local commuter service is facing a cliff and may stop.
Also how about people without rail tickets who are on the platform? How to make sure the wrong people do not get on the train without a ticket? Their should be a smoother process for people to get on and off the train.
In my experience using trains in Europe, my ticket was only checked once on the train to save time (sometimes when entering the platform, but not usually). If you didn't have the ticket when you were on the train, you'd either have to buy one/pay some sort of fine. It seems to work there just fine, and makes the process of getting on and off the trains much more efficient/faster vs checking everyone as they get on, slowing down the boarding process. Thanks for watching 🙌 -Louis
The federal government should own the rails just as it owns the Interstate Highways. Railroad companies would support it with taxes and fees just as truckers do.
The federal government does not own Interstate Highways. States do. The federal government provides most of the funding, but it has always been the states that own and maintain them.
Amtrak has been a 50 year failure and will continue to be a failure. Highest subsidies of any form of intercity transportation in the US. I like traveling by train but it does not make sense in almost all parts of the US.
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The one You guys should have done is use the latest FRA study map, instead of the Amtrak ConnectUS map.
this is very scare, my cat is sad
Nice video on amtrak and the US passenger rail system! I wanna add on some other comments in favor of the long distance routes alongside the other great comments about the benefits and improvements that could be made for the long distance system.
Number 1 is that alongside the benefits to rural communities and people without the capability to do a roadtrip and fly, the long distance network actually provides a great benefit for those shorter lines which we all want. For instance, the newest amtrak service that just started this year is the Borealis train connecting st paul to chicago, and that route follows the same exact routing for the empire builder long distance service. What that means is that the track negotiations were already mostly figured out with the freight companies, the stations were all already built, and there was already a segment of people who did use the train to travel these shorter distances. So when the Borealis started service it essentially required very little investment in order to get off the ground.
The reason why texas doesn't have any shorter trains connecting dallas, san antonio, austin, houston, etc is due to a law that says any amtrak route under 750 miles must be funded in part by the state government. So if the texas state government wanted to, they could absolutely use the texas eagle route as a basis for a route, which already has existing demand and basically no new infrastructure costs. They probably won't due to politics though, which is why there's only one train per day between these cities (or less). So long distance routes serve a political purpose of giving some level of rail service to states which would otherwise have no trains at all, and should favorable political conditions come around, those same long distance routes can be augmented with more frequent corridor services.
Thanks for the comment! Yes, unfortunately Texas politics is pretty terrible for train travel at the moment.... I'm not personally optimistic, but we can dream! We have an exciting guest coming up in a few weeks to talk about potential regional rail in Central Texas that we are excited to have on! Hopefully they can make me feel more optimistic about it 😅-Louis
I love Amtrak. Considering how deliberately starved for resources its been since its inception it's incredible not only that it's actually as good as it is (with those undeniable problems that will hopefully be remedied over time), but that it exists at all.
Agree! Thanks for watching and leaving a comment 🙌
The reason why Congress or the states don't spend more for passenger trains is they read the same numbers of studies. Less than TWO percent of Americans use regional or long distance trains, not local commuter rail. Whereas some EIGHTY percent have flown, and ONE HUNDRED percent use the highways one way or another, if only to push their wheelchair across it. And that is down from FOUR percent in 1971... Unfortunately RAIL ADVOCATES fail to present these numbers... One can make the argument Amtrak is OVERFUNDED!
Technically, the priority law is enforced, it’s just that the fines Amtrak can impose are so low that none of the freight railroads care about it. They can only really fine the railroads the cost added by the delay and the loss of an on time bonus. So it is enforced, it just doesn’t bite into the railroads any.
Ah interesting. What I’m hearing is that the fines should be raised by a lot and then Amtrak will have a greatly increased funding source
Rail advocates fail to present the law entirely. Amtrak does get priority if the train is in its time window. Unfortunately with linear routes, running on freight tracks, Amtrak usually isn't in its time window. Furthermore freight trains are twice as long as they were in 1971 today, thus the freight railroads run most of their freight trains n different directions in time windows. However, Amtrak does not schedule its trains with any of the freight time windows in mind. It is the Amtrak train that is going the wrong direction... If Amtrak wants ON TIME performance, BUILD and MAINTAIN your own tracks. And being a former employee of a power plant using coal, I recall numerous times that 1 gigawatt power plant nearly shut down because our coal train was late. If anything considering our economy, freight SHOULD have priority with just in time deliveries to factories, passengers can arrive late...
Both the short haul and long haul should be supported. There are markets for both that can be convenient. Your comment on day trips supports this idea. I agree, Europe is better with rail travel.
You both raise some comprehensive salient points regarding Amtrak & I appreciate your comprehensive research. Have been on the Maple Leaf, The City of New Orleans & The South West Chief. Amtrak does provide a unique service compared to most European trains - traditional dining & observation car (on western long-distance services). You mentioned the low passenger numbers on the Cardinal & Sunset Limited but failed to mention that they are both only a tri-weekly service, unlike the rest of the long-distance trains. I understand a recommendation has gone to Congress to convert both to a daily service both ways. Hopefully, this should result in increased patronage. Amtrak does provide an important service to both Americans & tourists.
Really all the long distance routes should be twice daily. Just ask Cleveland or Salt Lake City.
I can’t remember where I read this, but evidence on Amtrak suggests that when frequency doubles, ridership triples. So daily Cardinal and Sunset Limited would lead to ridership levels similar to its counterparts would that happen.
Even a Chicago-Cinci day train would be nice...Indiana wouldn't approve of that unless there was a Midwest Corridor Board that superseded the states
@@wp40 Nonsense - be happy you have the western routes at all. However, the Lake Shore Limited should probably be twice a day.
@@wp40 Really have to second you on the SLC point. Going west, the train leaves at midnight. Going east, the train leaves at 3am. The SLC "Am-shack" station is incredibly disappointing as well. Getting dropped off at 3am in a somewhat sketchy part of town is all the reason most people need to never take the train.
I love traveling by Amtrak. I’ve taken journeys around the country via rail. I can only hope that one day this country will have a robust rail system; especially mult-timed intercity travel network like Houston to Austin, SA, Dallas or New Orleans. The primary issue with a robust rail system in Texas is the airline industry; with American, United, and Southwest having hubs in the major cities with several daily flights between any city pairs. They’ll fight tooth and nail to keep their passenger loads rather than lose any to rail service
The truth is that rail advocates FAIL to mention is that the train loses the passenger ridership battle with the airlines beyond THREE hours. And Amtrak's Acela numbers on the northeast corridor proves this fact. With the less than three hour Acela journey to New York City from Washington DC, Acela wins the passenger ridership battle with all of the airlines serving those two cities airports, both having more than one airport. Great for HSR. However those numbers change significantly with the nearly four hour Acela journey New York City to Boston. Never mind those numbers for Acela with the nearly seven hour journey Washington DC to Boston, less than two percent ride Acela for the entire nearly seven hour journey... Amtrak numbers rail advocates, USE THEM... Stop baffling us with BS, dazzle us with brilliance please...
It is heartening to see next generation people interested to an increase in inter-city passenger rail. My first recollection of an overnight train trip was from Midwest to Florida, including a diner (restaurant car) and observation coach; it was a time before interstate highways existed.
For the future, Amtrak planners have released routes in a plan for new service. There are gaps: PORTIONS of a future Amtrak service from Detroit Airport (DTW) to downtown Columbus, OH via Toledo, OH are shown. And although tracks exist, the missing route link not shown on their map is from south of Toledo, OH to a rail junction at 300 Washington Street, Dunkirk, OH., about 70 miles.
So keep doing what you are doing; perhaps others will consider travel by rail.
20:25 Dudes, US cities are not further apart ! Distances are not big !! Yes, Austin to NYC, but that is irrelevant for trains. You fly those trips. But 50% of car trips are
Another Rochester resident, took the train to Long Island to visit relatives. Arrived on time in nyc, easy transfer to Long Island railroad. I have an electric car, so between traffic and charging time it was much more relaxing to take the train. The wifi worked very well on the train and I had my iPad and headphones, also brought snacks and drinks.
Rochester Represent! Lol. Thanks for watching! More frequent trains between all of the Upstate NY cities and down to NYC would make so much sense. It would also likely be a good region for high speed rail obviously too.... Maybe someday.... -Louis
8:36 empire builder only goes from Chicago to Seattle/Portland, it doesn’t go all the way to new york
Empire Builder and the Empire Service in NY will do that to my brain 😅-Louis
I can't wait to see the ALC-42Es on the Northeast Corridor as well as the Empire Corridor and Keystone Corridor lines!!!
Same here. So glad that Amtrak's trying to get rid of locomotive swaps.
I actually think it's reasonable to run more long-distance routes, but they should merely form the backbone for more frequent city-pair service. If you want to get a long-distance train, sure, here's your one or two per day (I think adding a second trip spaced 12h apart on each route would be a huge improvement by itself), but we also have short-haul trains between large cities along this route much more often. Having trains running end-to-end on longer routes increases the flexibility of the system, you just have to solve the freight delay problem.
Hey just found you guys; I'm a self proclaimed transit nerd. Love multimodal options in vibrant cities. I have always loved train travel, doing quite a bit growing up on the East coast, and when I've traveled abroad. Good luck building your community. Like what you're doing and agree, in order to build out mass passenger rail that's viable in the US we need an interconnected major city network of highspeed with hubs. Those long lines with low ridership drain the whole system. I live in Minneapolis and up until recently only had the Empire Builder as an option between here LaCrosse, Madison, Milwaukee and Chicago, but now have dedicated service...the challenge though has/will always been the amount of time it takes to get there. Cheers!
Thanks for watching! I saw the new Borealis route they added there not long ago which is exciting! Hopefully in time it will increase in frequency, and improvements to the tracks can increase speed as well. Probably not coming any time soon, but we can dream 😅
Appreciate the comment. -Louis
The Bi-Partisan Infrastructure Law is doing a lot to fund in-the-works projects on the NEC, Borealis, California lines, etc. which is great, and more investment than Amtrak has seen in decades. That said, there needs to be extreme emphasis on having higher-speed lines between large city pairs that have already long drive times, despite interstate access.
The S-Line in NC/VA/GA is huge example of Amtrak focusing more on city pairs instead of just allowing those long-distance routes to service places along the way. The Texas Triangle, Ohio, New England, and the Front Range need 110mph+ trains connecting the massive cities in those areas, providing reliable local service, while places like Michigan, Pennsylvania, New York state, and the Cascades deserve more service, better frequencies, and overall - BETTER MARKETING.
I currently live in North Carolina and we have great Amtrak train service here. We have multiple trains a day. The Crescent connects the 2 major Cities Charlotte, Greensboro and the line ends in NYC on one end and New Orleans on the other. On top of that we have the Piedmont that has 5 trains a day going from Charlotte to Raleigh and ending in NYC, and finally the Carolinian that has 4 trains a day from Charlotte to Raleigh.
That because the state pays for it.
@@Truckdriverplays The state doesn't pay 100% of it. The state is in partnership with Amtrak to run The Piedmont and The Carolinian. Both train run on CSX and Norfolk & Southern owned tracks.
@@stuartm6069 never said they did.
When I was in school we used to take the train from Richmond VA to NYC (80s). It was so much easier than driving (and parking). Even having to change from diesel to electric in DC it only took around 6 hours to get there. I wish that option was available in cities outside of the NE
Thanks for sharing (and for watching)! -Louis
congrats on 1k yall!!
Thankyou!!
I agree with you about shorter cities pairs as it is high-speed service like Atlanta to Memphis, Memphis to Chicago or Memphis to New Orleans and many other city pairs, that would let individuals to travel anywhere in the lower 48 states.
I think the cafe attendant on the Texas Eagle you had is the same one that we had the last time we took that route lol. She was pretty cool!
I think Arkansas needs a another line NWA to Little Rock have a stop in fort smith and go to Tulsa and finish in Oklahoma City. NWA to Kansas City and Little Rock to Memphis
I think the future of passenger rail will be emphasis on high-speed rail on shorter oorridors like the Dallas-Houston-San Antonio "triangle," where there is enough ridership to justify the enormous expense of building high-speed rail on grade-separated tracks. I can also see major improvements done to the Northeast Corridor to dramatically increase the speed along the way.
And Columbus, GA is left out in the Cold... Again. Still looking for that Atlanta rail-link that was dismantled when the Man O'War was terminated back in 1970.
Nice job love the history.
I heard you mention single door bonding in NYC. Last time I took amtrak out of NYC, this wasn't w thing. The only time I've experienced this was leaving Penn Starion via LIRR. They started/considered doing this for LIRR out of major stations because fare evasion is so bad here. People will hide in bathrooms or not activate tickets to avoid paying.
Great episode. I've priced out and looked at Amtrak many many times from Dallas to Austin or Dallas to San Antonio and even if the 10+ hour ride was worth it, the cost usually isn't if you're traveling with a family.
Yeah it is tough when the price isn't competitive and the amount of time is almost always just worse. Sometimes it can work, but most of the time you have to go out of your way to use it outside of the northeast. Maybe someday🤞! Thanks for the comment 🙌 -Louis
My experience riding Amtrak's River Runner and Lincoln Service from Columbia, MO to Chicago was really nice. I was fortunate and got to ride on the new Venture coach cars. The windows were large, the cars felt open and clean and breathable, and I even brought my bike on the whole trip. Really enjoyed my experience, but on the way home I missed my train and unfortunately got stranded in Chicago for a whole day.
Louis, so you are from Rochester? I've lived here all my life. And I've been a passenger rail advocate most of my life, ever since I took a vacation in Europe. We traveled all around Europe without ever stepping foot in a car... something unimaginable here in the States. But there is one very big difference between us and them. Cities in Europe are the destinations. NOT the suburbs around the cities as it is here. So once you get to a city in Europe, you are where you want to be, you don't need to then rent a car to get you that final 10 (or 30) miles. And there is an excellent (wonderful) transit system set up if you don't wish to rent a car. Europeans would never think of building a shopping center, or nursing home or apartment building that was not on a transit line. But they do that here all the time.
BUT Most Americans know very little about how trains and transit work. Right now, Amtrak is slower, more inconvenient, and more expensive than Airlines. Passenger Rail has only gotten this way since the end of WWII. So, it took only 25 years after WWII for the automobile to completely ruin and destroy our passenger rail network in the United States... this would include Intercity Rail, Trolleys (Street Cars) and Interurbans (long-distance Street Cars). Trolleys were used within the city to get around, and Interubrans connected the city with smaller outlying Villages, Cities and County Seats. Intercity Rail connected all the major cities in the United States together. In 1925, there was not a Village, City or Hamlet in New York State that you could not get to by rail. All trolleys/interurbans were electrified rail, and the intercity passenger could have been easily electrified making a system completely GREEN. Think of the position that would put the USA in when it comes to Climate Change and Global Warming?
Fast forward to TODAY, almost 75 years after WWII, and we have Suburbs, pretty much as far as the eye can see, Cities are losing population (White Flight caused this in the early '60s and continues today). But we need to reverse this trend to combat Climate Change. Rural America NY is gaining population, at the chagrin of those who currently live there (i.e. Urban America is losing population they can't afford to lose, and Rural America is gaining population that that the residents don't want) There is no way to connect our Suburbs ecologically, except by EVs, which is a very expensive proposition to keep Global Warming at bay. When if we just kept what we had, we would have much more room for more 'foreigners' and room for more farmland (which I believe is much of the reason Europe kept its intercity rail, Interurbans, and street car systems (I suppose WWII whipping everything out also had something to do with it).
Keep up the good work you young'uns.
Yes! Grew up in Rochester from age 4 through high school. I still get back a few times a year to visit family. Thankyou for the thoughtful comment! -Louis
The Cardinal is actually a spectacular route by the way, and it's beyond vital for the cities it serves along its route. Part of its problem is that it's a 3x weekly service. If it were daily like the Empire Builder, or the Silver Meteor, it would see much better numbers. The Cardinal is regularly a quite full train, especially since it's the only train that hits big cities like Cincinnati, Indianapolis, and Charleston. Also having ridden the Cardinal myself, it's a highly enjoyable trip with excellent views. If you're on the East Coast it's a really cool way to get up to Chicago and I don't think it should be written off by any means.
The Pacific Surfliner has some serious issues despite its ridership numbers. Mostly notably is that some tracks frequently wash out from coastal erosion, with the worst area around San Clemente. NIMBYs are trying to stop tunneling efforts around Del Mar, another segment with coastal erosion. Caltrans is at least solving the worst of the at-grade crossings. Also, the Hiawatha has impressive numbers for a line that is only 90 miles long as it runs between Chicago and Milwaukee.
Re: Montana. Montana plans to sponsor a train across the state. Surprising but true. They already have the line. I believe Missoula to Billings, though I could have the endpoints wrong.
I believe the plan is to bring back the North Coast Hiawatha which will add another Chicago to Seattle Train to Amtrak. It last ran in the 1970s
Without even meaning to, this freight rail priority issue is an issue my newish TH-cam channel keeps on coming back to. Because of that, there are a lot of things and feelings I’ll share here…
First, I should note that a few weeks after this video was released, the feds sued Norfolk Southern for allegedly causing delays on the Crescent line. I wished this happened sooner in the Biden administration, but I’m glad the powers that be are finally doing something.
The frustrating thing about the lack of interest in freight rail interferences is as follows:
1. Some politicians complain about how much money Amtrak loses.
2. Amtrak says that these interferences lose them money.
3. Said politicians seem to have little interest in the interferences that cost them money.
It’s frustrating because if politicians wanted to look at the root causes of why Amtrak loses money (not that their turning a profit is important to me, though some politicians would disagree with me), they should look at the freight rail interference issue. But they aren’t, and that is frustrating.
Amtrak themselves have made an issue of the freight rail interference issue in the last several years, at least. So I wonder if the law on freight rail interference should be amended so that Amtrak can directly sue fright rail companies, without having to go through any layers in the federal government.
Anywho, those are my thoughts. Great episode!
It is easier for a dispatcher to shove a 6-car amtrak into a siding than a mile-long freight. I rode the long-promised high-speed rail connection between Chicago and St Louis. I rode from '06 to '18 and it still is not finished. And the section that was completed couldn't reach max speed because the passenger cars weren't built for speeds over 100 or 110. Billions spent for a small time decrease. Until Alton-St Louis can be untangled, it's still a promise unfullfilled.
Amtrak needs to add trains. One example is Houston to Chicago. Houston one of biggest city in nation only has 3 trains a week with sunset limited .
Thanks again for covering the law that gives passenger rail priority over freight. The reason that it is not enforced appears to come down to politics and profit.
To solve this problem the federal government and state government would have to take over the ownership of the mainlines and the maintenance of and also start construction of new replacement corridors which would keep freight and passenger rail separated on their own right of way with both trackage being designed for high-speed (i. e. a railroad freeway system with one side being for freight trains and the other side being for high-speed passenger trains.
Another profitable train is Auto Train to and from Central Florida with your car.. Saves the effort of driving but it takes forever to load and unload train.. I took it a year ago and it was packed... A lot of users got a sleeper but the cost was very high.. The Silver Service trains make the stops without the cars..
I haven't thought much about the auto train to have strong feelings about it, but it certainly is pretty unique! Thanks for sharing a bit of your experience with it. - Louis
European distances are definitely closer. Sad to give up the long haul routes for example from Minneapolis to Seattle.
From a different angle, we must maintain and expand our rail service, for National Security. In the event of National Security issues, we need to move troops and military vehicles to where they are needed, reliably.
Under stand the train has one door open based on the stop and traffic
First of all I'm glad you did this one as about 5 months ago you unjustifiably trashed Amtrak and compared it to the new, and unjustified, "private" rail (that is fully privately owned but heavily financed by the public).
Amtrak provides an important service for the public under very difficult circumstances, with very low budgets, reluctant to enforce laws and the obligation to run services regardless of the situation. Just a reminder - during Covid Amtrak and all other public transit systems continued to serve the public under problematic conditions, as it should be, while the all favorite Brightline just shut down service completely for 18 months.
As for shorter routs. They can't provide those on their own which is why the leave the longer routs alive as they are crucial for many low income people with no other affordable option. Amtrak cannot operate lines up to 750 miles. Those lines can only be operated with the participation and financing of the states and a many of them, like Texas, will never do it without a political change. The only way to provide service is through those long lines.
Any new law will have to address this problem, together with the priority for passenger rail.
As or the cars. The shorter rout ones will be replaced by the Siemens Venture cars. In the Midwest and California San Joaquins line they already replaced some of the cars (they have problems with the restaurant/business ones) but thos, aid by the states, are pretty cheaply built (the interioe, not the cars themselves). The Amtrak ones should start entering service in 2027/27 ans should be of higher quality and comfort. Amtrak also looking at replacements for the long distance onnes.
Your explanation is spot on. Glad you posed this.
I love seeing the map I made being included in peoples videos!
I'm originally from Ohio and the passenger rail connecting the 3 C's (Cleveland, Columbus and Cincinnati) has been studied for the last 50 years, and nothing ever comes from it. Amtrak is once again studying it, but the Ohio Legislature won't do anything to assist or promise any type of funding. This is a great loss for Ohio citizens.
I also wanna quickly say, the reason why there's a massive long distance train route through montana is because there is a very strong activist organization which has been lobbying for passenger rail through that part of montana for years now, and has gained significant political support from their members of congress. It may not seem like much to outsiders but the route that is proposed would run through essentially all the largest cities in the state, alongside the state capitol.
So all that to say, anything is possible if you fight for it lol
Interesting! I was unaware of the Montana train lobby 😅 That's kind of awesome that it is a thing. Thanks for watching! -Louis
Chicago, Detroit, Toronto.
Houston isn’t included because Texas politicians don’t want to pay for while the restoration of the North Coast Hiawatha, the line thru Montana, is heavily supported by local politicians plus US Senators and advocacy groups. Plus it would get another train added to the Chicago to Twin Cities corridor.
Still no direct Florida service from Chicago. Sad.
They didn't use the latest FRA map.
Replace interstate highways with rail lines😈
I agree! They should prioritize shorter routes that run more frequently.
Speed the trips up
We don't want trains in Texas. We want more toll highways, traffic, fatalities and roadrage. 😅😅😅😅😅😅😅😅😅😅😅😅😅
I don't agree with your take on the long distance trains. As for some states thats the only train service in the entire state. The provide a service that otherwise would not be there. I do believe we need to increase the frequencies on these long distance trains. Maybe run the service twice a day, track improvements and updated equipment. Long distance trains can be great it just takes investment in them. Also when it comes to regional services, (higher speed rail and High Speed Rail) Run more trains. 1 per hour (each way) should be the standard.
Also if Amtrak just focused solely on Big City pairs, support would weaken. Amtrak is a national passenger rail carrier. Which means everyone. Everyone should have access to rail not only people who live in big cities.
8:28 Maybe you should learn the routes of major trains like the California Zephyr and Empire Builder before commenting on Amtrak.
The stoped the hiwatha
A lot of mistakes. Sightseer lounge. Empire Builder Seattle or Portland to Chicago not New York. Coast Starlight to Los Angeles not San Diego. At least in my part of the country, the dispatchers do make Amtrak trains priority. It isn’t always as easy as you seem to think it is. Long distance trains are important to smaller cities in the west that don’t have access to air travel. They depend on Amtrak
Houston doesn’t want to be connected Montana does.
Houstonians might want trains but they haven’t been fighting for it like Montanans have
Now that freight consists are upwards of 2 miles long and more, they're whining that they can't yield the ROW to Amtrak because their sidings aren't long enough any more. 😢😢 Poor babies.
I'd like to see the Surface Transportation Board mandate that freight consists cannot exceed the length of sidings, and oh, brother, they'd be building sidings and double tracking faster than we could imagine.
Agreed! Thanks for watching.
Make congress and those who work in other government jobs take the train. if you don't have a line , the support the money to fund it
Amtrak is wasting $36 Billion of their grant money building a tunnel into New York City. Another $18 Billion on things that don't work at all. Now the new is, local commuter service is facing a cliff and may stop.
Also how about people without rail tickets who are on the platform? How to make sure the wrong people do not get on the train without a ticket? Their should be a smoother process for people to get on and off the train.
In my experience using trains in Europe, my ticket was only checked once on the train to save time (sometimes when entering the platform, but not usually). If you didn't have the ticket when you were on the train, you'd either have to buy one/pay some sort of fine. It seems to work there just fine, and makes the process of getting on and off the trains much more efficient/faster vs checking everyone as they get on, slowing down the boarding process.
Thanks for watching 🙌 -Louis
The federal government should own the rails just as it owns the Interstate Highways. Railroad companies would support it with taxes and fees just as truckers do.
The federal government does not own Interstate Highways. States do. The federal government provides most of the funding, but it has always been the states that own and maintain them.
Amtrak has been a 50 year failure and will continue to be a failure. Highest subsidies of any form of intercity transportation in the US. I like traveling by train but it does not make sense in almost all parts of the US.