There's one major upside of Hanweir I'm surprised you didn't mention. The ability to go Hanweir + Valakut to haste a single titan is huge to set up for Valakut kills later, if you can't go for the 1 amulet kill lines. You put it right at the end but I feel it should have been stated earlier and perhaps more than once.
True! I sortof overlooked it while writing because in my mind it’s “obvious” that Dryad pairs better with Hanweir, but more unfamiliar players may not recognize that it’s an important detail. Getting Valakut is pretty much the default thing to do when hasting, so Hanweir being better with Dryad/Valakut seems like an innate fact. Thanks for pointing out that detail to those who didn’t realize it and for helping to make it more clear to those who might not have caught that detail!
@@redfacedmenace I really loved the video, learned a lot of neat lines like the Ottawara line and the single amulet win. I've been on Littjara/Kessig and you sold me on Oran/Mirror pool. For some reason I never realized mirror pool was instant speed, makes a lot of sense. Hadn't considered fetching mycosynth so I thought Oran Rief required Vesuva to win.
Like I said, I was the exact same way about the whole topic! I didn’t initially understand why Otawara was in the deck, I didn’t know the double Mycosynth option for the kill until GR Donkin explained it to me (oops should’ve credited him on the slide :/), I didn’t know the tech lines with Vestige, etc. It was a surprisingly deep and complex topic that I just KNEW deserved its own dedicated deep-dive. We all learned something from this. :)
Boros package also requires to bounce more lands during the kill attempt, making paying for pacts harder (if not straight up impossible) and hindering further development. And i like the facts that mirrorpool allows you to play around removal, presenting an instant-speed threat if you just hold the mana up.
Oh for sure. Playing Hanweir without Mirrorpool and Oran/Kessig must have felt underwhelming. You simply have to have access to the right tools and the knowledge of how to use them!
great video! super helpful. I'm running amulet with no rings (can't afford them lol) currently and I'm on a weird mix of the two packages because I haven't been able to find a hanweir locally. I really didn't like having sunhome in the deck, wanted to try oran rief for value anyway with nantuko lines, and learning that I wouldn't lose the double amulet kill (mirrorpool+bounceland->copy titan->stronghold+garrison->haste both->oran-rief+anything->activate twice for 20) convinced me. after watching this video I'm just gonna order a hanweir though, it makes the lines so much cleaner.
Another cool line with mirrorpool/hanweir is that if you play echoing deeps, you can hust make a free third titan that doesn't hurt the original combo's goal.
I learned something watching this video, and I play this deck 24/7! Great work. While it is true that you don't need vesuva for the kill with hanweir, it should also be mentioned that if you use Vesuva in the double amulet line, you can deal 20 damage AND channel Otawara. Feel free to explain that line in the replies!
Yes! I did mention it while covering the grand list of Hanweir advantages, but I sortof realized in that moment that it really deserved its own lines section. Oh well. T_T I’ll leave it as a challenge to the viewers to figure out what cool things you can do with 2 Amulets and Vesuva in deck to copy Oran instead of doing the whole 2 Mycosynth thing! Out of curiosity, what was the thing that you learned?
yea strictly just going off the presentation, the Hanweir sounds overall better. the 2 things that feel notable for Slayers to me is the "removal doesnt cost you the combo" and the "16 damage line" as those seem at least pretty strong strength on paper. (maybe i undervalue the vigilance). That said as a fan of card games, just hearing "Hanweir makes you not brick on Boro Grarrison" already sounds really good, and just the list of random things you can do from it makes it sound way too flexible not to at least lean in that direction.
100%. Another huge one is being able to use Vesuva to copy something in the Hanweir lines. It may not seem too important on paper, but it comes up much more often than you might expect! I swear I’m slowly turning you into an Amulet player, Ruah. ;P
Some malevolent rumble lists have started playing a single copy of echoing deeps, which can copy a sacrificed mirrorpool. So that compensates for some of the risk.
True! That is also an option! But then you have to commit a slot to the Echoing Deeps. It makes sense in a rumble build for sure. Some people are playing Deeps just for its own right as well.
@@redfacedmenace what would you expect Titan to play if Ring becomes banned? Been looking to buy into the deck for a while, and thought it a relevant question
@marinusbrask8186 well firstly I currently don’t foresee ring getting banned anytime soon. I think it’s here to stay in Modern. However, if we were forced to play without ring, I think I’d look to maximizing copies of Explore or perhaps even going for the Rumble/Shifting Woodlands/Echoing Deeps build. I imagine a Nantuko would be a key piece for the Ring-less builds, turning Dryad (and Grazer sometimes, depending on the opp’s deck) into game-winning threats. I don’t know if that answers your question, but I hope it gives you some insight. Ultimately, Ring would need to be replaced with more threats and value-oriented ramp.
Doubtful! It’s reliant on 1) resolving a Titan with Amulet in play, 2) also having a Pact/Nantuko in hand, and 3) opp having no removal for your Titan. In fact, I’ve been wondering if Nantuko falls into the category of being win-more. At the very least, I find it a much easier backup pact target to win with when Titan gets extracted, when compared to Colossus!
I prefer hanweir, valakut, mirrorpool, and kessig wolf run. You go for kessig if you dont have a dryad, but if you have a dryad you copy the haste valakut with vesuva and valakut kill your opponent. The slayers version is, in my opinion, worse when you draw any of the 4, sunhome, slayers, vesuva, or boros garrison.
Oh for sure! I highly suggest you try out Oran Rief in place of Kessig, however. You may find yourself impressed, especially the more you look into its lines!
@redfacedmenace thanks for the advice and the reply. Before watching your video, I wasn't so sure about Oren Rief, but it sounds really good after hearing you explain it. Your videos have helped shape my deck into the list I play now, and I appreciate the work you do with the deck and on TH-cam.
Do you think it's possible to play amulet titan without The One Ring (I know it's possible, just remove it duuuh), but do you think it will still be fun and good to play?
@@matheusBBarni Yes, absolutely! Any grindy card will do a similar job (maybe not as well as the ring, but you have to make concessions!). You could try playing both Explore and Malevolent Rumble, with a copy of Echoing Deeps just in case you mill an important land. Other options include playing some Turntimber Symbiosis, extra Cultivator Colossus, Hydroid Krasis, Tireless Tracker, more TWests, etc. anything to increase threat density.
@@redfacedmenace why only 1 TWest but 3 copies of Mycosynth and 2 Crumbling Vestiges? I feel like one of those should be cut for the 2nd TWest. I'm used to having 2 TWest in my deck but is it the case that you end up not missing the 2nd TWest?
@@joemcguire4979 The Woodlands in the sideboard effectively function as a "2nd Twest" against the decks you want it for (unless their removal exiles like solitude). Being able to copy titan after it is removed lets you find woodlands on its original ETB instead of Twest or hasting it. Then you can swing with the woodlands the next turn to find more off the attack trigger (you don't get an ETB trigger from the copy). You can even bestow an animated woodlands with nantuko to make copies, the land really shines in grindy matchups.
@joemcguire4979 the 2nd TWest is replaced by the Mirrorpool, which is necessary for the Hanweir kill lines. There definitely can be spots where the 2nd TWest would be nice, such as having to Map for TWest to have a threat to play or naturally drawing and transmuting TWest, both leading to not having a backup Titan. But in the combo turns you just have to make sure you’re aware you only have 1 TWest in deck when planning out lines. Generally, Mirrorpool is a sufficient replacement in those scenarios. The 2nd Crumbling is replacing a bounceland for an extra green source and a redundant copy for the Crumbling haste lines (honestly it can probably be cut for another bounceland if desired). The 3 Mycosynth is because there’s no room for the 4th. You need to be able to search up 2 copies for the Hanweir kill line with Oran Rief if you don’t have access to Vesuva, but it’s mostly just because Mycosynth is a great land to have access to. We’d probably play 4 if we easily could.
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There's one major upside of Hanweir I'm surprised you didn't mention. The ability to go Hanweir + Valakut to haste a single titan is huge to set up for Valakut kills later, if you can't go for the 1 amulet kill lines. You put it right at the end but I feel it should have been stated earlier and perhaps more than once.
True! I sortof overlooked it while writing because in my mind it’s “obvious” that Dryad pairs better with Hanweir, but more unfamiliar players may not recognize that it’s an important detail. Getting Valakut is pretty much the default thing to do when hasting, so Hanweir being better with Dryad/Valakut seems like an innate fact. Thanks for pointing out that detail to those who didn’t realize it and for helping to make it more clear to those who might not have caught that detail!
@@redfacedmenace I really loved the video, learned a lot of neat lines like the Ottawara line and the single amulet win.
I've been on Littjara/Kessig and you sold me on Oran/Mirror pool. For some reason I never realized mirror pool was instant speed, makes a lot of sense. Hadn't considered fetching mycosynth so I thought Oran Rief required Vesuva to win.
Like I said, I was the exact same way about the whole topic! I didn’t initially understand why Otawara was in the deck, I didn’t know the double Mycosynth option for the kill until GR Donkin explained it to me (oops should’ve credited him on the slide :/), I didn’t know the tech lines with Vestige, etc. It was a surprisingly deep and complex topic that I just KNEW deserved its own dedicated deep-dive. We all learned something from this. :)
ready for RCQ season!!
I’m sure you’ll kill it. :)
Great content!!! Continue to shed light on Titan! A lot of great minds in the Titan community!! 👑
Boros package also requires to bounce more lands during the kill attempt, making paying for pacts harder (if not straight up impossible) and hindering further development. And i like the facts that mirrorpool allows you to play around removal, presenting an instant-speed threat if you just hold the mana up.
Great points!
i wish other modern decks had this level of discussion and coverage...
I would make similar videos for other decks if I was as good with them, but sadly I'm not. :/
Awesome video! Appreciate the effort in making good Amulet content.
Thanks! I decided to program all the card movements into PowerPoint this time
@@redfacedmenace it looked really great! Helped with understanding the lines a lot!
Omg I literally played Heinwar last night and wished I had Stronghold! But, I didn't have mirror hold and Oran reif! Fantastic timing! Love it!
Oh for sure. Playing Hanweir without Mirrorpool and Oran/Kessig must have felt underwhelming. You simply have to have access to the right tools and the knowledge of how to use them!
Excellent presentation! The level of thought that has gone into this has me inspired to try to ponder my favorite strategies more deeply!
Digging this deep into things seems to be an Amulet Titan classic. :P
great video! super helpful. I'm running amulet with no rings (can't afford them lol) currently and I'm on a weird mix of the two packages because I haven't been able to find a hanweir locally.
I really didn't like having sunhome in the deck, wanted to try oran rief for value anyway with nantuko lines, and learning that I wouldn't lose the double amulet kill (mirrorpool+bounceland->copy titan->stronghold+garrison->haste both->oran-rief+anything->activate twice for 20) convinced me. after watching this video I'm just gonna order a hanweir though, it makes the lines so much cleaner.
Yeah, the lines involving Hanweir are so elegant! No more worrying about Vesuva, drawing Hanweir, etc.
Another cool line with mirrorpool/hanweir is that if you play echoing deeps, you can hust make a free third titan that doesn't hurt the original combo's goal.
True!
I learned something watching this video, and I play this deck 24/7! Great work.
While it is true that you don't need vesuva for the kill with hanweir, it should also be mentioned that if you use Vesuva in the double amulet line, you can deal 20 damage AND channel Otawara. Feel free to explain that line in the replies!
Yes! I did mention it while covering the grand list of Hanweir advantages, but I sortof realized in that moment that it really deserved its own lines section. Oh well. T_T
I’ll leave it as a challenge to the viewers to figure out what cool things you can do with 2 Amulets and Vesuva in deck to copy Oran instead of doing the whole 2 Mycosynth thing!
Out of curiosity, what was the thing that you learned?
I'm already looking forward to your video about echoing 😉
The Deeps lines are a little obtuse atm. I’m continue to look into it, tho.
yea strictly just going off the presentation, the Hanweir sounds overall better. the 2 things that feel notable for Slayers to me is the "removal doesnt cost you the combo" and the "16 damage line" as those seem at least pretty strong strength on paper. (maybe i undervalue the vigilance).
That said as a fan of card games, just hearing "Hanweir makes you not brick on Boro Grarrison" already sounds really good, and just the list of random things you can do from it makes it sound way too flexible not to at least lean in that direction.
100%. Another huge one is being able to use Vesuva to copy something in the Hanweir lines. It may not seem too important on paper, but it comes up much more often than you might expect!
I swear I’m slowly turning you into an Amulet player, Ruah. ;P
Some malevolent rumble lists have started playing a single copy of echoing deeps, which can copy a sacrificed mirrorpool. So that compensates for some of the risk.
True! That is also an option! But then you have to commit a slot to the Echoing Deeps. It makes sense in a rumble build for sure. Some people are playing Deeps just for its own right as well.
@@redfacedmenace what would you expect Titan to play if Ring becomes banned? Been looking to buy into the deck for a while, and thought it a relevant question
@marinusbrask8186 well firstly I currently don’t foresee ring getting banned anytime soon. I think it’s here to stay in Modern.
However, if we were forced to play without ring, I think I’d look to maximizing copies of Explore or perhaps even going for the Rumble/Shifting Woodlands/Echoing Deeps build. I imagine a Nantuko would be a key piece for the Ring-less builds, turning Dryad (and Grazer sometimes, depending on the opp’s deck) into game-winning threats. I don’t know if that answers your question, but I hope it gives you some insight.
Ultimately, Ring would need to be replaced with more threats and value-oriented ramp.
Nantuko on Titan for a Splinter Twin kill? Holy cow is this going to be what finally gets Titan banned?
Doubtful! It’s reliant on 1) resolving a Titan with Amulet in play, 2) also having a Pact/Nantuko in hand, and 3) opp having no removal for your Titan.
In fact, I’ve been wondering if Nantuko falls into the category of being win-more. At the very least, I find it a much easier backup pact target to win with when Titan gets extracted, when compared to Colossus!
I prefer hanweir, valakut, mirrorpool, and kessig wolf run. You go for kessig if you dont have a dryad, but if you have a dryad you copy the haste valakut with vesuva and valakut kill your opponent. The slayers version is, in my opinion, worse when you draw any of the 4, sunhome, slayers, vesuva, or boros garrison.
Oh for sure! I highly suggest you try out Oran Rief in place of Kessig, however. You may find yourself impressed, especially the more you look into its lines!
@redfacedmenace thanks for the advice and the reply. Before watching your video, I wasn't so sure about Oren Rief, but it sounds really good after hearing you explain it. Your videos have helped shape my deck into the list I play now, and I appreciate the work you do with the deck and on TH-cam.
@danielbruce4660 Very glad to hear it helped! Thanks for watching. :)
Do you think it's possible to play amulet titan without The One Ring (I know it's possible, just remove it duuuh), but do you think it will still be fun and good to play?
@@matheusBBarni Yes, absolutely! Any grindy card will do a similar job (maybe not as well as the ring, but you have to make concessions!). You could try playing both Explore and Malevolent Rumble, with a copy of Echoing Deeps just in case you mill an important land.
Other options include playing some Turntimber Symbiosis, extra Cultivator Colossus, Hydroid Krasis, Tireless Tracker, more TWests, etc. anything to increase threat density.
@@redfacedmenace hmm thanks! I'm asking this because I want to play this deck, but TOR set is like half of the deck value here in Brazil
what's your complete decklist ?
I have it posted here in this Twitter post: x.com/facedmenace/status/1811528179711881326?s=46
@@redfacedmenace thank you so much!!!
@@redfacedmenace why only 1 TWest but 3 copies of Mycosynth and 2 Crumbling Vestiges? I feel like one of those should be cut for the 2nd TWest. I'm used to having 2 TWest in my deck but is it the case that you end up not missing the 2nd TWest?
@@joemcguire4979 The Woodlands in the sideboard effectively function as a "2nd Twest" against the decks you want it for (unless their removal exiles like solitude). Being able to copy titan after it is removed lets you find woodlands on its original ETB instead of Twest or hasting it. Then you can swing with the woodlands the next turn to find more off the attack trigger (you don't get an ETB trigger from the copy). You can even bestow an animated woodlands with nantuko to make copies, the land really shines in grindy matchups.
@joemcguire4979 the 2nd TWest is replaced by the Mirrorpool, which is necessary for the Hanweir kill lines. There definitely can be spots where the 2nd TWest would be nice, such as having to Map for TWest to have a threat to play or naturally drawing and transmuting TWest, both leading to not having a backup Titan. But in the combo turns you just have to make sure you’re aware you only have 1 TWest in deck when planning out lines. Generally, Mirrorpool is a sufficient replacement in those scenarios.
The 2nd Crumbling is replacing a bounceland for an extra green source and a redundant copy for the Crumbling haste lines (honestly it can probably be cut for another bounceland if desired).
The 3 Mycosynth is because there’s no room for the 4th. You need to be able to search up 2 copies for the Hanweir kill line with Oran Rief if you don’t have access to Vesuva, but it’s mostly just because Mycosynth is a great land to have access to. We’d probably play 4 if we easily could.