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DRIVER SWING VS. IRON SWING // How to hit all your clubs longer and straighter
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 14 ส.ค. 2024
- 0:00 Intro
2:33 Ideal Iron Swing
3:37 Not Ideal Driver Swing
4:44 Comparison
5:28 Ideal Driver Swing
8:44 Not Ideal Iron Swing
9:28 Final Summary
Looking at the ideal swing characteristics for both the driver and irons that give the best blend of distance and accuracy.
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Filmed at: Tour Experience Golf
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Joke's on you, I've already liked it because I know I'm going to enjoy it!
What percentage of viewers aren't subscribed?
Ian Jackson 50%
"Alright Matty boy"
@@ianfrasergolf Crazy! get on the TXG train already! all aboard! lets go!
After hearing about Bryson putting on 40 lbs, I was all excited to see all of my driver distance gains since I was in the same boat. I was devastated to learn that it had to be 40 lbs of MUSCLE!!! #dirtybulk
I assure you he has put on some non muscle too, he is looking like a power lifter, strong but keeping up the energy too.
neal terrio Yeah. He does look like that. Will probably refine his approach if he runs into issues with flexibility or joint issues now that he is carrying more weight (not that he is 350 lbs or anything) and putting a lot of stress on his lower body as it compensates for the added mass. Unfortunately for me, I am on the wrong side of 40 and hadn’t come to accept that I can’t burn off fun foods without more upkeep than I was used to. Have eaten that dose of reality and just will need to adopt a cleaner diet as well as the exercise.
He hasn’t put on anywhere close to that of muscle, best guess would be between 5 and 10 lbs which is still very impressive, the rest is water/glycogen and fat
John daly made a career outta this, have faith 😂
It's like you've been reading my mind/search history lately.
Finally someone is discussing this topic. People always say “a swing is a swing” but for my entire life I’ve always been an excellent iron player but struggled with driver.
You never cease to amaze me on how you can take an idea that is in the back of our minds and articulate it in such a way that general golfing public can benefit their game from. Amazing!
Pin point...
Well Guys you did it again, you probably had 80% of your audience saying yep that's me to one or other of the swing types.
Personally, I'm Mr Shallow and I would struggle to take a divot even if my life depended upon it and I am sure that there are just as many Mr Steep's out there as well.
We know that you are not an overtly instructional site, but it would be really helpful for Mr Shallow & Mr Steep to have a follow-up video giving some in-depth ways of how to develop a two swing strategy to the game of Golf.
one thing to take into account as well is the type of ground you play off of regularly --- generally speaking, my club has fairly soft ground and it's easy enough for a downward strike. But when these little mini-droughts come through and the ground is hard as a rock, i find myself trying to pick the ball off the ground just to give my lead elbow a rest!
Couldn't agree more. Can you imagine if there were a YT site with an Ian/Matty doing instruction?
This!!! Please get Larry or Tyler in for an instructional follow-up to this video. That would be so valuable to alot of us!
Yes to this
This is why we love bandito!!
One of the less talked about aspects of your fitting process is the knowledge you gain about the positives and negatives in your golf swing. Chris, who did my fitting, pointed out the positives in my swing, ie. a fairly square face at impact and the ability to hit straight shots. He gave me one building block that I can take to the bank. A few months later I had a lesson with a helluva great teacher, Adam Bazellgette, in Florida, who took that single metric and helped me improve my strike. Those Tracman numbers and graphics contain a ton of pure gold if you have someone to interpret the information. Clubs that fit plus knowledge = happy golfer. Hate to sound like a broken record; you guys are the best.
I was the guy with good irons and and driver all over the place with the same swing. Pro showed me 2 seasons ago that my hands were ahead of the driver head at impact. Painful to develop a different swing for the driver but now can hit both driver and irons. Wish somebody like you, or the people I took lessons from, told me I needed 2 different swings.
This spoke to me I hit up on my driver. I just switched instructors he spend the first lesson with my irons, trying to get me to take divots. This helps me understand why
I am the guy that is efficient with my driver but too shallow with the irons. I can outdrive people all day and then they hit one club more than me from the same distance. Now it is much more clear of why. Great information.
It took me from 1983 to 1988 to test and learn all this. Was my secret to winning and long drives until 2017. Well done guys!
I can't express how important this is getting the most out of your game! Great video! Perhaps you can make a video on how someone can identify these elements without a launch monitor (I know you touched on it briefly in the video)?
I am a picker, don't mind tight lies but never take a divot. I am now realising my loss in ball speed could be significant. Thought my lower spin loft window with the irons would be the opposite. Great work guys.
I’ve learned so much about the mechanics of the golf swing from watching y’all in the past couple months, this channel is a goldmine of information. You two make it so simple to understand the actions behind the numbers you talk about, rather than just saying “your numbers should be X for a good swing”
I’d be so happy with those first 3 drives haha
This amazes AGAIN!
This should be the discussion at every teaching institution. You do really straighten things out in a way it has not been done before.
Great work by great people!
Shallow delivery guy here- irons go high up in the air. I deliver consistent enough that I can depend on the yardage though. Fascinating seeing the launch monitor numbers for either club/delivery.
Excellent illustration, great work. I was always told to be like this, but inherently during the swing, you will tend to fall back to the one that you are preferred because the concept was not quite solid or convinced. Until you fail and lots of try and error, you tend start to be more concise. With you data, it does help to solidify the concept. Thanks
Every time I see a video of yours that speaks to me I have to immediately run to the range after. Had my best session ever with my driver that had been plaguing me for months! Thanks guys.
I'd be happy with having Matty's Iron swing on my driver, and driver swing on my irons 🙈
I definitely belong to the second category - I hit my driver quite well, and expect my good shots to go over 300 yards, but I'm super nervous on the fairway and have a bad habit of topping or hitting it fat - this video has made me understand why.
Also, I will never cease to be amazed at Matt's ability to manipulate his swing and get the exact characteristics you're trying to show. Absolute robot with a club in hand.
As someone who is coming back to golf after a nearly 20 year break (stopped playing age 19) this is so helpful for me. I really need to understand how to swing modern drivers well. I can get 170+ ball speed but am really struggling with consistency. When I learned the games the two swings were reasonably similar, certainly no longer the case. Thanks guys
I have fought all year with this problem. I can hit irons all day long. I couldn't get off the tee. I was using the same upright swing.
I was demonstrating a rotary swing off the tee the other day and I hit the best tee shot of the year. Now I understand that I need two swings!
I just found this out myself in a fitting. I was hitting 3 degrees down with my driver hitting it low and 260-270 carry rolling out to 285. Then I finally hit up on a few 3-4 degrees up on the driver and the numbers drastically improved (285-290 carry rolling out to 305-310, swinging around 110-113 mph). Great video guys! I’ve always been good with my irons but bad with my driver/woods.
In a nutshell boys! I fall in neither camp consistently but go through fazes of smoking the driver but no divot irons, then a week later hitting short driver bullets but irons are lovely. Making the transition from the one swing to the other is challenging. Seen so much instruction on this regarding set up but wish I could feel better the different motion of the body throughout the swing.
Quality of the videos was always here, but now the quantity too! Love it. Thanks guys!
Great knowledge on the fact there is two different swings, but doesn’t break down the two and how to create a separation between then like many of us need
The ten seconds Ian used the spare shafts to illustrate the difference in spin loft, was incredibly valuable. Such great content.
As a club fitter, you see this so much! Definitely make a follow up video if you can talking about how you go from one to the other, everyone respects your opinions
Very informative. Another excellent vlog. Thanks.
So informative, I wish I could find coaches in the UK that spoke like this. Every time I go for a fitting they just crank the lofts down and pretend I've turned into Hercules afterwards, so frustrating!
Had my driver fitting yesterday and went from g410 lst Accra tz6 (unfit) to sim with diamana df. Went from a neutral AOA to +2.5 and gained 20 yards carry and tighter dispersion. Watching your videos helped prepare me. Thank you!
I love videos like this where someone else has already done this but, you guys just go into so much more detail it's crazy.
I'm definitely the greenskeeper's friend/ no divot type. Driver 230 carry, 7 iron 135... Been working hard to transfer weight down and left with my irons. Has added more than a full club of carry.
This video would be Adam Young approved. Well done boys, well done.👏👏👏
Matt is a god. This guy hitting driver swings with irons and still has a tighter dispersion mine
awesome vid, it really shows how the equipment evolution has changed the game. Back in the day of persimmon woods, teeing it low with that smaller head actually made it easier to repeat the swing (so of course it was usually a downward strike, at least for us weekend warriors) -- the new metal woods are really optimized. Yay for science! (because i grew up playing in the 80's and those old persimmon woods were duck-hooking machines and i don't ever want to go back to that!)
Great to see these articulated so clearly, I definitely used to be too shallow but I think my iron swing improvements have started to carry too much into my driver swing. How do long irons, hybrids, and fairway woods fit on this spectrum? You talk about it in the ball position videos a little bit, but what's the right balance of these two swings for the non-driver long clubs?
This is a great great question. My hybrid feels like an extension of my 4i. But my wood feels like the more difficult sibling of my driver that i have to hit off the deck, and cant "swing up on". I think its why they say its the hardest club to hit in the back because its the longest club you hit off the ground. I would love them to do a Dr vs. Wood vs. Hybrid vs. Long Iron comparison of swings/impact #'s.
I use the same swing for my 3 wood and hybrids as I do my driver
"How to hit all your clubs longer and straighter" - any other channel I'd call B.S. clickbait, but here we go!
I can hit irons off the mats but not off fairway. The club will not dig into the mat like it will turf. I love the game. I think you are the best on TH-cam. I wish I was not 16 hrs from you. I believe you could make me a real golfer not just a hack.
Just sent this to 3 of my friends at work, literally applies to everyone, very insightful.
Little bit of serendipity, was just talking about this today at the range! Had been making some adjustments on the irons that had me steeper on the backswing and then tried to transfer that to the driver and couldn't get the bloody thing off the ground. Wish I had seen this video so I didn't have to spend 45 minutes confused as to what on earth was happening to my driver.
Best video for me in a while. Because I struggle with both. I go in with one working or the other. Then once I get it, it flip flops. Thanks!
a word of caution to many who might get excited about working on two golf swings as this video might suggest. I'm pretty sure most people don't have one of these swings repeatable enough to make it worthwhile trying to develop both. Unless you are a pro with lots of time to practice and a greater than average talent level, one is unlikely to get even one repeatable swing type, not to mention two quite different ones. I speak from experience. A good ball striker with irons and fairways, a low handicapper who likes to practice far more than most golfers, I tried learning the hitting up modern driver swing a couple seasons ago, I was about 50 then. Took me several range sessions, but it did take shape. But it cost me the iron swing. That different release for the hitting up swing messed up the descending blow iron swing release. It took me a few range sessions again to get the iron swing back. I had to admit to myself that I lacked the talent to do both, and I surely preferred employing an accurate repeatable iron swing that might cost me potentially 10-15 yards driving distance than to boom drives then hit less club into greens that are then missed anyway because the iron swing is unreliable. Matt's comment when looking at the four sets of numbers shouldn't compare worst case to best case iron swing and driver swing, thus being worst on both sides, but rather one would compare what happens if one develops/employs a driver swing for irons and driver vs an iron swing for irons and drivers, as their conversation delved into for the people they knew/worked with good at one swing type but struggling with the other. The problem if you are not coordinated or talented enough to have two repeatable golf swing types but have spent the time to get one swing down pretty well is not that you sacrifice losses on both irons and drivers, but that you have to choose which advantage to take at the cost of the potential gain of the other. Do you want good swings off the turf with non-optimal driving results or bombed drivers with dodgy everything else? I think Koepka is an example of a quality golfer who chooses a nonoptimal negative attack angle driver swing to be able to count on his iron swings, hitting down on everything. I think Stenson is similar. With the amount of talent they have and the time their profession allows/demands for practice, that they still choose to work on just one basic swing model probably would be instructive for most of us nonprofessional part-time golfers. With few exceptions, amateurs will improve their golf more by choosing one swing type and learning it well than to keep trying to juggle two swing types and never really groove either. But of course maybe that's what you enjoy even if it isn't practically useful for lower golf scores. and maybe you are among the talented ones like Matt and Ian and professionals who can perform and switch between two swing types reliably every hole on the course. hats off to you, 100%. everyone can choose what they enjoy trying to do and we all play golf for different reasons. Just some words of caution.
That is a great response, honest and realistic. Clearly there is more than one way to play this game and, if major winners like Koepka and Stenson are using one swing, non-pros like us can be successful as well doing the same. Is it optimal according to the numbers? Of course not, but it works for those of us who can't groove both swings. The great thing about these videos is that we can all learn from them, take our own bits and make our own games better for us. Thank you Ian and Matt for a great video and helping our golf evolve and improve.
In response to using only one swing, Ian, how do you then fit someone who only uses one swing? For example, how do you fit a golfer who only uses an iron swing in order to produce the best driver launch conditions for that person?
Great video guys!! You nailed my exact experience from last week with a Driver fitting I did. As an 8 handicapper whose 55 years old and who’s been playing golf for literally 45 years; this was my EXACT specs with driver (except my club speed is a lowly 95 versus Matt’s 117 ☹️). Struggled with lower launch & always spotty directional control driver for ages but iron play is almost always solid. At least now I know I’ve got to make a driver swing change to get real long term improvement. Keep up the great work and thank you.
I know WHAT to do, the HOW is what gives me issues. I can get pretty steep in my swing so I'm a fairly good iron player but struggle with hitting up on the driver.
I’m sure it isn’t a coincidence this was covered the day after I was there 😂. Thanks for all the help , really enjoyed the experience and can’t wait for my clubs to be done .
2nd guy is definitely me. something to work on at the range! Always wondered why my iron distance didn't really match my driving distance
And me!
That's funny. looking at the info at 11:10. it tells me my iron swing is too much like my wood swing and my wood swing is too much like my irons. need a little more separation where my irons are more down and woods are more up. Thanks for the lesson boys!
Well both of the not ideal swings look like mine. Apparently I am driving my irons and iron-ing my driver.
I was player type 1 until about 2-3 seasons ago, I turned in to type 2
great demonstration gentlemen
I think this explains why I hit my woods really well but a super floating ballflight with my irons. I think I'm far less downward on my irons than I need to be. When Ian said "the player on the back foot loves a fluffy lie that they can just pick clean" I was like "That's me!".
Time to fix my driver swing! What an awesome video
Wow. This is me with my driver. The distance doesn't correlate to my iron play as I rob myself distance by hitting slightly down. Time for some lessons I think. Also, later in the video it's not too far off how I play with irons too! - don't hit down enough.. Defo lessons!!
This is literally my issue. Except maybe both. I’m a “picker” with my irons, but yet struggle with pull hook bullets off the toe with the driver because of the “iron” swing. So the worst of both worlds, honestly. I know I have 30+ yards available in my driver and a lot more accuracy. I’m tempted to actually loft up to see if that helps, at least until they reopen the border and I can come see you!
Haha, wow. As someone who struggles with the ‘ol skiddy, drop-kicked, make-your-fingers-fall-off-on-a-cold-morning shallow iron swing (~9:10). This had me triggered. For real, tho - awesome content. Importance of the fundamental differences between these swing two patterns can’t be overstated
I used to have to same swing for both irons and driver. Currently working with my pro to create a better swing for my driver. Not easy to change 30 years of muscle memory
Absolutely love this. Great explanation. If you guys started another channel or even slowly incorporated “how to” videos you guys would absolutely take off. Much love from Manitoba!
It takes real talent to change your delivery factors like Matt did in this video!
love this. I just installed a Uneekor home sim and love doing deep dives into my numbers. I've found that for my swing (108mph), I'm most efficient at 16 degrees and 2000rpm. **edit** Should preface it to say this is at 4000' elevation. I can't wait to try this same experiment when I get home....although I'm no Iron Byron, like Matt! ;)
Really an outstanding video. Players 'of an era', do what we were taught in that era, just like the modern players do now days. Nice to see a bridge between the two though, and to understand that new tech/drivers makes a swing change necessary.
Excellent video that resonates well with me. As always, I appreciate the demonstration, data, and knowledgeable commentary
I am one of those who learned in the old Persimmon days. Coming off a 10 year hiatus and this is my problem. Really struggle with tighter lies or unplush fairway shots with irons. Solid out of rough or plush lies or off tee. Irons/wedges used to be my strong area. Now it's back and forth. When I can drive I can't hit a full or half wedge for crap. I'm confident with a 2 iron though or even anything above 8 most of the time. Opposite of past experience. I've been trying 3 different sets of irons with different shafts, 3 drivers too and I'm hating my old wedges (chunking full/half shots). Some days I crush my drives, other days I'm missing hard hooks and wide open slices. I'm struggling to find one swing that works, let alone two. This video helps distill what I kinda know subliminally and maybe need to divide into two swing thoughts. Great content.
I'm two years ahead of you after 18 years off, left as a decent 10 handicap, came back and really struggled and most of what you wrote I went through - but glad to say I'm back and have actually lowered my handicap after significant practice. Here are my suggestions:
1) Work on your Driver at a range where you can hit off a mat and develop a repeatable swing. The easy part for me was to find a goto squeeze fade that I would just start down the left and fade it 10-15 yards - easy stuff - but that was only a 230-250 shot. At the same time, build a new new modern wider stance swing, come at it from the inside a few degrees, hit up on it 5 degrees, think about hitting in to out with a slightly closed face. Think of this new swing as a go for it Par 5 wide fairway swing and build towards using it by the end of the season
2) Go to a grass range, take your 8 & 6 irons and start digging holes. You have to get that divot flying after the ball feeling again. You may want to buy graphite shafted irons if you are prone to tennis elbow type inflammation that maybe you didn't have when you were younger and playing a lot - but practice on grass and practice taking perfect mini dollar bill thin divots after the ball - do this until the sound of ball compression and then earth / divot flying sound is ingrained in your brain
3) You are older and getting the short game back again will be tougher - but it is absolutely possible - but I would suggest wider bounce wedges such as the Cleveland CBX 2. Ian and Matt reviewed them (watch it) and they are excellent - but it is the wider bounce that will accelerate you getting your confidence back. I would suggest something like a 52 & 58 so you have 2 goto wedges that you use for lower and higher chipping & pitching - and then go practice 30 hours off of grass - but first watch a few videos of modern chipping technique where the feet are close together, the shaft is more vertical and you are taking very little to zero divot when hitting off a perfect tight lie.
All in this took me about a year to get it all back but I know my golf swing far better than I ever did previously. There is tonnes of good online resources that I could mention but I would start with Eric Cogorno TH-cam channel for the full swing stuff, especially all his recent video where he shows you where the face of the club should be at all points of the golf swing - watch 100 of his videos and then start practicing again.
Might want to watch some of the wedge videos on here. The one where they talk about bounce and turf interaction was pretty informative. They talk about the importance of getting the bounce right.
@@brentninedorf6617 Yes, I think I've seen them (or some). I moved to FL from the NE and still getting used to the turf after 2 mos. I struggle to hit off matted range too. Have to use a tee (low)...had injured my left wrist playing golf twice in the last 6 mos, so I'm also kinda protecting it from a bad dig. I think I was casting bad and that's how I injured my wrist both times.
Great video! But I would like for you guys to explain the D-Plane effect of hitting down with irons and how it affects your club path (hitting a push), and opposite for driver and how to compensate for that D-Plane effect??? That’s what I’d really like to understand 👍
Great info guys. The iron shots I hate the most are fat shots, or ground before the ball. They go nowhere.
Really great video guys. Thanks for explaining spin loft. 👍
This is a great video. I just took a look at my trackman numbers from my club fitting and my angle of attack on my irons was a -0.2 average. I guess i know what i need to work on now. Thanks!!
Thanks for the Spin/Loft discussion - makes so much sense ❤️
I struggle to get one swing grooved, much less two. Since the driver swing is only useful for one club, I would favour the iron swing. Would find it interesting for Matty to compare a 3 wood off a short tee to the Driver with an iron swing. Great video!
I used to be the long iron off the tee guy, until I found some good instructions. For me it was easier to understand that it's 2 different setups which will lead to the different swings.
Matt loves that Ventus Black... Just got myself a SIM 9 degree with Ventus Black 6x, it's a LONG combination if you have the swing speed to keep it in the air.
Always love the videos and latest instructional vids have been first class . Been going to use a trackman for 6 months now and it’s so eye opening
So this video has clearly explained my current issue. Driver better then ever while my irons have become short, inconsistent and mostly fat hits. Now how do I trigger the brain to go from Driver to iron swing on the course??? Thanks is for the clear explanations guys
I’ve noticed that I dont hit my driver and irons good on the same day. It’s one or the other on any given day. It’s amazing how much things can change from day to day. Last week I couldn’t miss with my driver and never lost a single ball all day (never done that before) but I was struggling with my irons all day and couldn’t capitalize from playing in the fairway. This week I can’t keep my driver on the planet but hitting my irons really well but can’t hardly get to the green in 2 or sometimes 3 because of the driver 😡
Thanks for the info gents! I think this applies to my game. I’m not super fast, but not super slow. Maybe 100mph with the driver. That said, I’m not hitting that 2.7yds per mph. I’m steep, which is okay sometimes, but clearly not off the tee. Cheers!
This is so me, now i know what to work on, very informative video, thanks guys, keep up the good work
Very well explained , I'm totally player one....driver is a work in progress.
Interesting vid this and definently one i can relate to. I rarely get more than -1/-2 AOA with a 7 iron..
Holy buckets guys. Always wondered about this. Brilliant! Thank you.
Still working on hitting up on my driver... great video!!
One thing I found historically is that if your game has multiple problems a lot of 'old school' teachers take it all back to basics and 'lets just work on your 7 iron - we will talk about driver later' - which is all well and good if you want to spend 12 months rebuilding your game and not playing, but it can you leave you focusing on one swing.
The other fad with teachers that use 'extreme feelings' to encourage changes in path, AoA etc mean that if you are sorting one half of your game the other is EVEN worse. I.E. driving OK but you are sweeping your irons - teacher wants you to hit extremely down on irons - its hard to change mindset when you try and hit driver with 5deg AoA.
hitting down and inside out was my normal last year, been working hard on my game over the winter. Hopefully the indoor launch monitor numbers are gonna look good today though. Be nice if i had matty swing speed though.
I love this video alot im still iron swing driver but slowly getting better only issue i get now is high launch high spin when i get it right but im using my driver in 11.5loft. I swing driver around 115 and get about 250-260 carry. Where as my 19 hybrid is around 240carry. So i use that or my 4iron instead
Thanks that very helpful new golf just in my 4th year playing good job again
Great video guys always informative
Great content boys. I'd be interested in seeing a video for people that strike irons well, but struggle with wedges.
Very helpful. I’m a great driver of the ball but can’t seem to find any consistency with my irons. Mostly thin, but when I try to hit down a little more, I start chunking it.
This content is so good. Thank you for all you guys do!
I got a new set of Mizuno MP 20 HMB clubs with a KBS C taper half inch extended extra stiff shaft and I am now hitting my 4 iron 280 yards which is typically as far as I can ever hit a driver and this problem is truly perplexing. I would never in 1 million years have imagined I would gain 40 yards
From a shaft change but now I am just trying to figure out how can I actually hit the driver a distance that will ever correlate that four iron distance and I am perplexed.
Amazing video! Wouldn’t this be a subject for a nice gears video too?
Great video, this seems to be my issue... will practice lots this week. Thanks
I’m royally screwed 😂
Not only do I deliver more loft with the driver off the tee (caused by casting) hitting on the up, but I’m also shallow with my irons and a true picker.
No wonder I struggle to get past the ladies tee! I could “Bryson up” all I want and buy the new tech but I’m still not gonna carry a 7i 150 😂😂😂😂
🤣🤣🤣
I'm definitely a shallow guy, barely can ever take a divot. I feel like if I steepen my swing I struggle with ball position and chunk/thin it every time. Something I need to work on
This was lightbulb moment. Your comment that prefer rough to fairway is me to a tee. The shallow out the club trend probably hurts me too much
Is someone who practices more on mats be more prone to being too shallow with the irons?
Late answer but I practice on Mats and i feel like I get too steep because you can chunk it without much penalty
Sounds like me. I seem to be stuck in the middle. When I hit driver well, irons fall short. My typical problem is good irons and terrible driver. I guess I need to focus on separating my swings. Thanks.
I'm so close to those perfect driver delivery numbers just need to bring loft down a bit at impact.
Irons need to hit down more on.
I’m the driver swing player. I sure would have liked to hear some tips on what to change for the irons
I am that steep player who is good with short irons and wedges but not so much with the driver. Sometimes I find something tho and I hit up on it. When that happens I'm instantly 25+ yards longer. Crazy...
Maybe having a “technique” series to apply these theories to a student would be fun? I don’t know if you guys have teaching pros at txg but seeing someone start to go through the process of fixing an issue like this would be fun to watch. Or a colab with another YT pro who could do just that?