[3.24] Why Magic Find Sucks - The Math Behind "Equivalent Quantity"
ฝัง
- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 19 เม.ย. 2024
- In this video, I discuss why I believe Magic Find to be extremely over rated by many people in the Path of Exile community as I compare an example MF item to a item that gives strictly player power.
Another Example:
Non-MF Character runs 15 maps per hour and profits 4 divine per map.
MF Character runs 10 maps per hour and profits 5.6 divine per map. (60 Quant = 40% more loot)
Non-MF Character makes 0.4 more divines per hour.
Additionally, I did not note that a "stronger" character can do more map mods for T17 thus saving currency needing to roll maps less, thus would have higher currency per hour.
Loot Filter Video:
• [3.24] Is Your POE Loo... - เกม
![[MPD직캠] 베이비몬스터 치키타 직캠 4K 'LIKE THAT' (BABYMONSTER CHIQUITA FanCam) | @MCOUNTDOWN_2024.6.13](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/h99J4vWm7Ew/mqdefault.jpg)
![[3.24] Back to Basics - T17 Scarab Farming - Min-Maxed Final Form (It's Broken)](/img/n.gif)
TLDR: Quantity on gear should be viewed as "cost savings". The more expensive it is to run a map, the more cost savings quantity on gear will provide. This is really only relevant in group farming because any amount of player power an item would give is useless as the group provides all the defenses and offenses needed. Additionally, with the introduction of the Horned Glittering Scarab, investing in player power items has never been better.
I'm glad you mentioned this, as it is a point I was going to bring up. The Speed vs Quant argument is quite old and people often forget to mention that for high investment strategies getting more out of your maps isn't nothing. Glittering Scarab definitely bridges the gap a lot, but now that we don't have sextants; you're using 1/4 of your available juicing scarabs for something you could potentially get on gear. I agree that it's still the way to go though, because T17s are considerably harder than any previous MF content that I can remember.
Also about Looting, swapping your boots (and belt/flask) to loot faster doesn't take very long. A good amount of strategies over the years have spent more time looting than actually killing, or at least close to an even split; even with a strict filter.
Good video though, glad you made it. I'm still in the "MF is inherently broken and also poor design" as I don't think making your character shitty in an ARPG should result in more loot. Your example is also specifically about boots. What about rings/amulets/etc? With a HH + Mirror Bow, etc you have more than enough damage that the opportunity cost of using Ventor's is quite low. Distillate is another one, it does require some sacrifices in needing to run Petrified Blood/Pathfinder but otherwise the opportunity cost isn't that big if you're using a HH over a MB.
Edit: I think my views on MF are changing a bit now after farming a lot of T17s. You really want a good build, not these 5k ehp shitter deadeyes walking around. 10k+ wisped maps last league you also actually wanted a solid character, you couldn't trivialize them as easily with just HH/mirrored weapon. GGG making content that rewards good defense, not just DPS, is a step in the right direction if they want people to not feel stupid for mapping without MF.
its std u can go all the way up to 250 quantity which give 81% more drops thats not just cost savings imo.
and these builds can still crush t17 with over 300+ move speed and 150k+ ehp
@@zyntril6404 I'm not comparing legacy gear. I already mentioned in the video GGG nerfed it because it was OP.
group mf is nerfed in Kalandra league. its more like turned the group mf from MORE into INC
I think a lot of these misconceptions are centered around the perception of loot. If I run a map and it takes 4 minutes vs 5 minutes its hard to feel that difference, but if I come out of the map and dump a full inventory vs 80% of an inventory its more noticeable.
I also think the same goes for deaths, it feels bad to lose loot in a map if you die 6 times, but as long as you get in and get all the loot out I think most players discount the extra time each death costs.
Agree. People need to track their actual data in maps per hour MF vs Non MF to come to more accurate conclusion.
keep getting ur vids recommended, love it
Hope you enjoying
Any Suggestion on a build that can clear as fast + be tanky for juiced t16's/t17's that's not LA?
Wanders. Bow characters. Ignite/poison prolif characters. All these types of characters have been historically strong for clear speed.
Is there a specific amount of quantity you should run ? or none is fine ?
Depends how much player power you need. I wouldn't suggest quant unless you only die like x1 per 10 maps and have 250 movement speed.
If player quant was additive with the cumulative quant you have from the map, monsters and passive tree, I would agree, but since player quant is multiplicative with all other sources of quant, having a decent amount on quant on you will make a HUGE difference on the long run, especially when farming ultra high end aspirational content.
Now if having that amount of quant actually decreases your ability to clear maps and slows you down considerably, we can all agree that it's not worth it. But in the case of high end builds or MF characters running with aurabots / groups, player quant will always be desirable. Just slapping a good Ventor's and Goldwyrm will go a long way if the rest of your build is optimized.
Damage is multiplicative. Movement speed is sometimes multiplicative. Your same argument can be said for player power and map clear speed.
Yes, I agree groups want an MF culler as I say in pinned comment.
@@Path_of_Chigurh With the Glittering working as it is I 100% agree that you should build towards damage and clearing and not worry about Quant on gear, as long as you can maintain the Glittering buff at it's cap, but for strats that don't take Glittering, I think at least 20/25 quant would still help as long as getting that 25 quant doesn't slow down your build by a lot.
You're doing god's work exile. Sexy vid
These boots don't do as much for deadeye, blood rage + frenzy of onslaught gives you onslaught, they already have tailwind so that leaves elusive and a few small bonuses. I do think this league queen of the forest is almost always better than greed's embrace. 15% quantity is not worth losing 72% movement speed and rarity doesn't really do anything right now.
All the things you list are still forms of investment whether gem slots or ascendancy points. Bow Deadeye is the best way to potentially use quant boots, but its not "always use these boots or you get less loot".
so is even 10% quant good on build or not worth
If its at the cost of 9% clearspeed, no.
With HH, Life, DPS and MS does not matter that much I would assume
While I would partially agree, it takes roughly 15-30 seconds for a HH build to ramp up (hopefully you never die or you need to ramp again) and then after killing all the mobs, you lose all MS while looting. This is compared to a build that always goes 250+ MS and can clear a T17 map in 2 minutes. No ramp. No slow looting. This makes up for the 40% more gear from 60% quant.
@@Path_of_Chigurh HH's ramp up time (and Shroud Walker) are two fairly moderate downsides to the belt that feel worse in practice than they might seem on paper. For the looting issue, I'd argue that depends on factors such as looting style i.e. while killing or after, filter strictness i.e. the fewer items that show, the less MS will impact overall efficiency, and HH users can solve this problem by swapping to a Mageblood and a 95% effect quicksilver for looting.
i build my characters by fun which is why i never mf when playing league without an aura bot as its just annoying to play high mf characters
only in std where mf gear has actual stats to improve your character its fun especially with high rarity youre actually getting showered with uniques while still steamrolling the game
I agree with the sentiment, but I do think there comes a point where you have all the damage you need, and the same for speed, because it may be hard mechanically for some players (me) to control there toon if too much zoom zoom. Ts was really good, because you had zoom from ascendancy, damage and clear from the skill and crazy bow, and just enough defense with the ability to offscreen everything. At that point investing in anything but mf is diminishing returns
If you never die, 1 shot everything, and have 250 movement speed with no HH buffs, then you can build your character to counter T17 map mods. Investing in MF isn't always the next step.
When i got at least extra 40% rarity and 10-15 % quant , my map (t17) dings like 3-5-10 times , with 0 rarity dings 0-1-2 times .
Disagree.
In league goldwyrms are reasonable if you have tailwind already but they cost you like 4 passive points of ms, crit multi simplex is also reasonable, but greeds, ventors, and div distillate are absolutely trolling. Only exception is now cost value as you said, for curation usage.
It all depends on what content you are farming and what your other gear looks like. I'm just pointing out sacrificing movement speed for quant is a terrible trade.
@@Path_of_Chigurh yea i generally agree, i run some quant on league chars but always go for +300 pob ms baseline. i'm just saying gearing is a zero sum game at the end of the day, as long as you make sure to address the lost ms, everything ends up coming at the cost of damage, which you can always solve with more currency. tbh the biggest issue with how people approach mf is an over reliance on headhunter, and viewing it as an end game item, when the goal should be to be able to run the same content more efficiently and consistently with a mageblood equipped and your own damage.
I completely agree, MF should get buffed
with mf gear in previous leagues average for 1 apo drop was 60 crimson prison maps and without mf gear it was around 150+ maps(with same strategy). mf stats multiply with map/monster/scarab stats so it is not just "40% more loot".
You are wrong. If you really just straight face commented that MF characters make 2.5x+ more currency card farming than non MF, you need to check your math.
If you are juicing maps to the extreme you don't need speed boots just a headhunter stacks but for general mapping I will agree the better stats boots win
Why not run 15 juiced maps per hour versus 10 juiced maps per hour?
cost lol@@Path_of_Chigurh
@@Path_of_Chigurhso running mf with 15map is better than mf with 10map?
@@Path_of_Chigurhso running norm char 15map is better vs mf with 10map?
I would say mf is better on juice map if ur character can handle it, quan is everything on a juice map,if u saw a vid saying that quan is trash,skip it thats all
Great video
Thanks
Fubgun in shambles
No finger pointing please.
Very good video
Thanks. Glad you enjoyed.
I hope GGG brings POE2's idea of magic find to POE1. Quant is gone and only rarity exists. Good vid, keep up the good work!
Would have to think about it, but I probably agree.
TH-cam surprisingly working and recommended the video instantly. lol
Ty for clicking. Hope you enjoy.
someone ACTUALLY SAID FACTS
quant good
Depends. 99% no.
quant on all gear and weak build = die alot/time wasted =low profit , strong tanky build with slightly lesss quant = not dying much= more maps done = more profit.
Agree
GGG nerf MF couple times since Kalandra league.
How
@@Path_of_Chigurh snapow talked about group mf nerfed before. and i feel same in my group experience. and GGG add more "MF" to map mod and monsters mod and scarabs. i think thats a way to "nerf" MF gear
@@jusibai813 A nerf to conversion rares is the only real nerf to mf. Making the game harder with harder T17s is an indirect nerf so solo play.