kinetic energy is harder to displace the energy with a field emitter. with plasma/las/melta its all heat energy which is way easier to dissipate the energy over an emitter shield. Its pretty common in game that heat energy beats physical armor and kinetic weapon beats energy armor
I'm glad that the classic Battle and Demolisher cannons are still solid choices, but I'm disappointed that there wasn't more effort put into making options like the Exterminator or Eradicator more competitive. It doesn't take more than a quick glance to note the Exterminator is completely inferior to the Battle cannon.
I mean, both are pretty much overshadowed by the Executioner coming back to claim what's theirs - the battle cannon doesn't have the oomph but has the shots, the demolisher has the oomph but not the shots. The executioner has both.
it isn't. play with 8th ed. codex and you get more out of your guard army rather with 9th ed codex. you have to keep in mind you cannot reroll your number of shots anymore as that trait has been removed same with the cadian order. therefor it will be swingy AF. at least for me this marks the end of 40k playing. i hope you can find joy in it, maybe you'll find something you want once i put my stuff on ebay.
@@jasongarfitt1147 I mean, the Exterminator is - on average, of course - a worse battle cannon, and while the battle cannon absolutely got better, it's still a meh choice compared to the executioner and is best taken as a base for the Gatekeeper. And the Gatekeeper... well, it's enormously better than the Exterminator, on all fronts. Reliability included - 6+d3 shots will do that.
One big use case I can see for the Punisher is into Daemons. Not as much in a heavy foot Guard list, that already tends to have solid volume of fire, but if you're going for more of a spearhead, throwing in a couple of Punishers would likely be a big help.
I'm pretty tempted to use a tank ace vanquisher with the reroll to hit, then I'm thinking a gatekeeper tank commander shadowing a executioner to order the executioner reroll 1's. Next up maybe a pair of Demolishers with multi melta to roll up the middle (1 being a tank commander for the Blast order). 5 Russ hulls feels like a fairly nice middle ground for armored support
I have to say, I mostly really like how this went. I don't want to say I just wanted something to break the Demolisher, and topple it from its place as THE auto-include LR turret, but I am glad to see that now there are options. The default, trusty Battle Cannon is nice, and I was truly praying that the Vanquisher Cannon was going to get at least some use breathed back into it, even if that Hvy 1 is still a bit scary, but it's so nice to see that all of these are now good, even if some are still better than others. I'm pleasantly pleased about the Eradicator Plasma Cannon. I've definitely wanted to see that weapon be better, too, being a fan of plasma weapons, and I liked the idea of at least one top-tier turret weapon being energy-based, in the 41st Millennium, instead of some big slug-yhrower pitching an explosive chunk of steel downrange. Overall, I am very happy to see where the Russ has gone. It's a good tank, and has several good alternative options, but it is also supported by other good units; seemingly gone are the days when most of the force would just be Demolisher Tank Commanders, hiding a Gatekeeper, with just enough cheap infantry to bubble wrap them against assault. Now, they are better, and more varied, among an army that is also better, and more varied. It still might not be a top-tier faction, guaranteed, but it's Guard; I wasn't demanding it suddenly overshadow Space Marines, and Harlequins, and I think it will be in a good place. I also think that the Leman Russ will help be what puts it there, but not the only piece that does.
I loved the autocannon in 8th because it was cheaper, like a lot cheaper. 4 autocannon twin linked shots for 20 pts cheaper than a battle cannon was sweet
IMO the punisher gatling canon is a great choice for mind games. 20 shots autowounding on 6s is hard to ignore, and I've found that my opponents are disproportionally worried by it compared to the damage it does on paper.
I'm glad you brought up re rolls. The vanquisher and executioner will pull away even more with one built in re roll. It mitigates the swinginess in the vanquisher hit and wound roll. I want to see the stats vs the demolisher and battle cannon with a re roll.
I actually still have a small guard army themed around being armored recon and used Conquerors and Exterminators back when they used to be cheaper, points wise. Lore wise, the Conqueror and Exterminator are supposed to be faster due to the weight savings, but never translated to tabletop. I want to play the song: "GAS GAS GAS", as I Tokyo drift an Exterminator Leman Russ around a city corner and open up on the flank of Ork speed freaks, popping trukks and warbikes.
you could also take the tank ace trait that gives you a 5+ save for the executioner against mortal wounds. i think the nover cannon is quite handy as it also ignores strats and doctarians that give units cover it also ignores the hit mods for cover as well. the vanquisher deserves more credit even if it is a single shot because if anything is worth a reroll it is so your hit and wound rate is far more likely
I rock a Vanquisher, a Demolisher, and a Punisher…. Huh lots of Ers….. I was looking into another tank to grab. Looks like I’ll be grabbing another Er with the Executioner!
I really want a Vanquisher, because that long tank hunter barrel looks just great. You can get it quite reliable, so I still like it. The punisher seems awsome against deamons, doesn't it. Not sure if it's worth it for that since guard can get volume of shots elsewhere. It depends the army composition I guess.
I think the 1-reroll tank ace also works well with a hull-mounted Lascannon since it gives another single, chunky shot to use your hit reroll with if you don't need it for the Vanquisher.
Vanquisher with hull lascannon, sponson meltas, and maybe a hunter killer missile for kicks. It's meant to face down the heaviest targets on the other side of the board, like heavy lancer cavalry in tank form. Of course, needs thorough infantry and possible anti-air support. Is hard to field in large numbers. Obligatorily bring a tank ace per squadron of these whenever possible. This type of squadron is the titan hunters I would bring if I don't have a dedicated Baneblade pattern like the Shadowsword. Chimeras with plenty of heavy bolters would be a good dragoon option to support such a Vanquisher squadron against horde armies. Maybe throw in a Basilisk or other artillery platform for extra payload. Squadrons of armored sentinels could be also an interesting option when facing other targets than hordes.
The exterminator autocannon has had the wrong profile since way back in the index for 8th. It should be heavy 8, as before 8th ed it was heavy 4 twin linked. Yet when it came to 8th or later it was just a twin auto cannon. it also used to be one of the few none ordinance russes that could move and shoot, but that's not really a thing any more so it is rather out mode. the executioner has always been solid.
Punisher also has the niche use of being the absolute best if you really want to use the pinning fire mechanized order. Pinning fire alone will help neuter the speed of any unit and combine it with Mental shackles psychic power and a powerful melee infantry unit isn’t going anywhere. Not great but it does have that order going for it too.
My tank core is gonna be a Tank Commander with Gatekeeper, Lascannon and 2 HBs and ignore cover tank ace ability, and a squadron of 3 regular ones, two with Executioner plasma cannons and one Vanquisher with tank ace for the trait that allows to reroll one hit roll. Seems like a quite balanced and versatile combination, support this core with some ponies and Kasrkin and it should make a pretty nice list.
the thing Iike about the brutal 1 shot No invuln's on vehicles is if you have kept it alive for Mid game (with range from the enemy) you can use them as assassins with high (or slightly reduced) movement. with bait targets and coaxing enemy character beatsticks into traps and fall back...
Good thing I magnetized my Leman Russ Demolisher and my second is a Battle Cannon. Figured they wouldn't be to terrible in the new codex. It is surprisingly though that the Executioner looks so good against almost anything, but Plasma is overall in a sweet spot for strength, AP and damage compared to so many other weapons.
So, for my 6 tanks. Armoured Superiority and Elite Gunner (count as multiple models per tank and 1 reroll per turn) 2 Commanders, 1 with Gate Keeper, 1 with Demolisher with Warlord Trait to order itself. 2 Erradicators accompany Gatekeeper. 1 Vanquisher moves where needed. 1 Punisher Accompanies Demolisher. Lots of Plasma Cannons and Flamers for Sponsons. Hmm... I'll need to work on this.
Not watched yet, but going to guess that Executioner will be math in as the best all-rounder and Vanquisher being the best dedicated anti-armour. Gatekeeper will also be amazing.
GW messed up with the Rogal Dorn. Guard needed a troop tank, practically speaking, not a larger tank than the Russ. They need something that you can take masses of and just chuck them at the enemy.
Hammer of the emperor on a squadron of executioners covered in plasma just sounds absolutely terrifying. Plus with all the other buffs on top of that. *shudders*
I know that this audience is more aimed at matched/competitive play, but theoretically with crusade you could bump the Punisher to damage 2 which could be pretty scary
Hmm with conscripts out of the codex, punisher cannon is not a bad option I think, although I am going to miss those 40 dice (now it is cheaper though).
The prime job of a tank is to take out heavy threats. So I'd go with the Demolisher since it's great against any vehicle or terminators. I'd pair it with an anti infantry gun on the hull to deal with hordes. That way you are effective into any army.
RIP Nova cannon, best looking gun on the russ, still one of the worst game wise huh? I was hoping the changes would boost it up a bit but I guess GW still isn't great at math.
The Eradicator was my bread and butter along with the Executioner pre-8th ed. Its stats made it a potent anti infantry specialist. When 8th edition rolled around everything that made it special became redudant. This was their chance to make it special again and they blew it.
The best variant depends strongly on the rest of the army. I think Nova Cannon and Autocannon variants are worst, rest is ok. As now normal guardmen with lasrifles can do some damage at range with the FRFSRF order, I think the big guns are best on the LR, because they are quite tough for their points. I now prefer the Vanquisher cannon, with 1-3 HEavy Bolters. So it can fire its main cannon at big threads, but still can do something against hordes, too!
I'm giving serious thoughts to a blob of 3 Executioner Russes, with a TC using Gatekeeper or Vanquisher. Probably all with HB/2HF in hull and sponsons.
As for the punisher, if it were like the A-10 Warthog's rotary cannon and what that does to ground targets...........cause it still looks really cool. Orks may have dakka but humans have BBBBRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRT
Im just loving the stratagem to have your opponent come in turn 3 whit reserves. My brother plays Thousand sons and demons so hes going to have to deal whit my Leman russ fire the first turns
For the love of Terra please, please change the picture of the leman Russ so the turret matches the one your talking about. 2 weeks into the hobby there are enough things to remember without also memorizing every turret name and model 😂
Punisher seems to be tailor made to kill ork boyz (just enough strength to wound on 3s, just enough AP to remove all armour saves and Dam 1 so no overkill).
Just cut off a punisher's gun and replaced with a vanquisher barrel meaning that squad has a plasma, punisher and vanquish. Just got to decide if the 3 demolisher squad should become 2 and a plasma now.. 🤔 tank commander gets to keep his relic battle cannon (1 battle, 1 plasma, 2 punish, 3 demolish - to - 1 battle, 2 plasma, 1 punish, 2 demo and 1 vanquish) think I'll do it and get my 7 russ's ready for 9th... got a whole 7-8months to play with them.. lol
I think Battle Cannons are going to be on tank commanders while your normal Leman Russ run the Plasma Cannon because they can get re rolls while the TC can't. The same argument can be used for vanquisher cannons as well.
@@WarRabb1t Yes a tank comander couldn't do it out of the box. However i understud it to be, because tank comanders dont have the *squadron* key word. There is a tank ace upgrade to allow a normal Leman Russ to issue orders. Since it doesnÄt make him loose his own *squadron* keyword, he should then be able to issue the order to himself. If that is not what is intended, then there would be a warlord trait, that allows an officer to order his own unit. I think that trait can affect tank comanders.
Punisher can still be used to break crusade games unfortunately. Artificer Weapon on a Tank Commander gives 1 mortal wound for every 6 to hit, in addition to the normal damage that attack might produce. When you have 20 shots that can be downright devastating. Otherwise yeah, for matched play it doesn't really seem worth it to me.
The Punisher is great verses swarm armies, so melee rush across the board without any transport focused Orks such as snakebite or goffs. As well as swarm focused mass body trooper Tyranids, along with other Imperial Guard armies that are conscript heavy, considering conscript heavy armies are meta right now in tournament play, it is a good way to make tryhards cry. Ok against Eldar (all 5 different factions), Mechanicus and Tau. Breaks Even against Space Marines (loyalists and traitors alike); Bad for everything else, especially big Tyranids. I agree, it is just one of those units you keep in your army box to bring to battles if you really want to shine on an opponent who is mass rushing conscripts or a melee rush ork or nid army to teach them a lesson for using an unbalanced cheese list. It seems that *as usual* Plasma weapons are the best! When it comes to any Imperial Guard anything, be it table top or the video games. Are they worth the risk? Almost all the time... YES!
Suppose instead of trying make it more powerful, they made it noticeably CHEAPER, would the Exterminator be a better option then? It’s not as good at anti-infantry as the Punisher, and not as good at anti-armor as the Battle Tank, but it’s got long range and it costs less to add to an army than either of those.
a random question: I am not sure about objective secure with space marines. I don't know which unit can have objective secure ability. Nice video by the way
All troops have objective secured. But Space Marines have a warlord trait called Rites of War that gives a 6 inch aura around the character that gives other units objective secured. Not sure if it's only core units but you get the point.
I think the eradicator should/could be like HevD3+6 S6 Ap-2 Dam2 ignores cover and invulnerable saves and then it would have a purpose. A real deamon hunter / low toughness but invulnerable save units XD Exterminator seems like it will always be in a weird spot. Autocannons shoot twice each.. max shots i can image would be 8.. 5 per barrel seems to not make sense... Maybe Hev8 S7 ap-2 D2 rerolling hits and wounds or something
As a subatomic shell I always imagined it working like a melta weapon in a way, not a beam but a ballistic melta charge. Wish russes had more energy weapons rather than 4 cannons and some shooty shooty guns
you say: " Seems usable though! " After just explaining all of the reasons why you pretty much never have to use the punisher cannon :S. I know 40 bullets before was too much. (they increased the points in 8th because it would've been too efficient in 8th) But they could've taken it to 30 instead of slicing the number in half. And yer the eradicator nova and exterminator cannons. I mean we have people who do the math. There is no way GW is too dumb for this. So how can these happen :S ?. I think they just couldnt think of anything better to make them stand out.
Dump question, but extra damage is lost on lower W models right? AKA you hit a guardsman with a dam 3 weapon it doesn't "bleed over" and kill 3 total guys right?
I think the auto cannon is good enough for casual play. Since if you spam the good options people will probably not want to play against you. I say 1 vanquisher/plasma and max 2 battle cannons for casual. The nova cannon is actually good against the "if you are have the benefits of cover then..." units. I think that when the data slate comes out, the russ turret options will get points adjustments, the "all turrets cost the same" screams "we'll fix it in post"
Never understood why in the game, there is never a multi-laser for a hull or sponson mount for the Leman Russ, or multi-laser for the heavy weapon teams. In lore it makes sense. So many other guard vehicles have them as standard weapon options.
Surely GW had one job and that was to make the Nova cannon and Autocannons turrets actual alternatives! 🤦🏼♂️ The Nova should be D6+6 shots and ignore heavy cover too, and the Autocannons should be Heavy 8, Str 7 (why are they 8?), AP-2, and D3 damage instead…imo.
Anyone know what the heavy flamer range is? If its 12, then plus 4 for the doctrine, then executioner and triple flamer is gonna be lol on my tank company
I feel like I’m the only one that liked the punisher it used to have 20 shots and if you don’t move you get to fire it again that’s 40shots in one turn that always helped me against my mates nids
I really don't like the executioner without consistent re-rolling 1s. You might only take 1mw on average a turn, but the times when you roll 3-5 1s are going to cost you the game.
Man, looking at this breakdown really brings into perspective how unfit for purpose weapon profiles are. In what reality is a battle cannon doing d6+3 shots in a round? Most of these guns should be shooting once and going bang in various different ways. I get that the shots profile is to differentiate between their effects but it just feels so bad when you have to disassociate number of shots you get in game to what you imagine actually happening.
Exterminator is the best. Battle cannon- boring Vanquisher, just a long battle cannon Demolisher ok kinda cool has some decently original lore Eradicator just a bigger demolisher Executioner just a big plasma cannon that has no niche. Exterminator is the most unique in appearance and in lore. This makes it the best.
This! I kitbashed me some twin lascannons and have made 3 of them, I think it’s the best look for a leman russ. That and the plasma cannon bring the russ from looking like a WW1 tank into a 41st millennium tank
It does have a good niche. Use your infantry to bog stuff down in melee, and then use your autocannons to focus down those squads. Lack of blast means you can fire it into melee with new guard rules
Check out my full review of Codex Astra Militarum here: th-cam.com/video/VwUmmlvpJa0/w-d-xo.html
It's hilarious to me that the Vanquisher cannon, which fires solid shells, can ignore invulns when a LITERAL VOLCANO CANNON can't.
Not to mention the quake cannon lol
Especially since it is literally made to ignore void shields
To be fair, the railgun is also a solid shot weapon.
kinetic energy is harder to displace the energy with a field emitter. with plasma/las/melta its all heat energy which is way easier to dissipate the energy over an emitter shield. Its pretty common in game that heat energy beats physical armor and kinetic weapon beats energy armor
@@christianyoung6686 atleast that's not propelled by gunpowder propellant charges... :D
I'm glad that the classic Battle and Demolisher cannons are still solid choices, but I'm disappointed that there wasn't more effort put into making options like the Exterminator or Eradicator more competitive. It doesn't take more than a quick glance to note the Exterminator is completely inferior to the Battle cannon.
I mean, both are pretty much overshadowed by the Executioner coming back to claim what's theirs - the battle cannon doesn't have the oomph but has the shots, the demolisher has the oomph but not the shots. The executioner has both.
it isn't. play with 8th ed. codex and you get more out of your guard army rather with 9th ed codex. you have to keep in mind you cannot reroll your number of shots anymore as that trait has been removed same with the cadian order. therefor it will be swingy AF. at least for me this marks the end of 40k playing. i hope you can find joy in it, maybe you'll find something you want once i put my stuff on ebay.
The exterminator being less swingy is the draw. I'm going to use mine to pin intercessors in melee
@@jasongarfitt1147 I mean, the Exterminator is - on average, of course - a worse battle cannon, and while the battle cannon absolutely got better, it's still a meh choice compared to the executioner and is best taken as a base for the Gatekeeper. And the Gatekeeper... well, it's enormously better than the Exterminator, on all fronts. Reliability included - 6+d3 shots will do that.
@@weissraben4476 remember gatekeeper can't use mech orders
It's nice to see classics like the battle cannon still be useful
One big use case I can see for the Punisher is into Daemons. Not as much in a heavy foot Guard list, that already tends to have solid volume of fire, but if you're going for more of a spearhead, throwing in a couple of Punishers would likely be a big help.
I'm pretty tempted to use a tank ace vanquisher with the reroll to hit, then I'm thinking a gatekeeper tank commander shadowing a executioner to order the executioner reroll 1's. Next up maybe a pair of Demolishers with multi melta to roll up the middle (1 being a tank commander for the Blast order). 5 Russ hulls feels like a fairly nice middle ground for armored support
I’m just happy I no longer have to proxy my Vanquisher tanks as battle cannons 😂
Nothings better than the standard issue Battle Turret to backstab those filthy guard, in glory of our 4 armed masters
This one gets it!
ORDO XENOS OPEN UP!!
I have to say, I mostly really like how this went. I don't want to say I just wanted something to break the Demolisher, and topple it from its place as THE auto-include LR turret, but I am glad to see that now there are options. The default, trusty Battle Cannon is nice, and I was truly praying that the Vanquisher Cannon was going to get at least some use breathed back into it, even if that Hvy 1 is still a bit scary, but it's so nice to see that all of these are now good, even if some are still better than others.
I'm pleasantly pleased about the Eradicator Plasma Cannon. I've definitely wanted to see that weapon be better, too, being a fan of plasma weapons, and I liked the idea of at least one top-tier turret weapon being energy-based, in the 41st Millennium, instead of some big slug-yhrower pitching an explosive chunk of steel downrange. Overall, I am very happy to see where the Russ has gone. It's a good tank, and has several good alternative options, but it is also supported by other good units; seemingly gone are the days when most of the force would just be Demolisher Tank Commanders, hiding a Gatekeeper, with just enough cheap infantry to bubble wrap them against assault. Now, they are better, and more varied, among an army that is also better, and more varied. It still might not be a top-tier faction, guaranteed, but it's Guard; I wasn't demanding it suddenly overshadow Space Marines, and Harlequins, and I think it will be in a good place. I also think that the Leman Russ will help be what puts it there, but not the only piece that does.
I loved the autocannon in 8th because it was cheaper, like a lot cheaper. 4 autocannon twin linked shots for 20 pts cheaper than a battle cannon was sweet
Umm…what?
In 8th codex the exterminator for some ungodly reason was one of the most expensive second only to the punisher in cost…
IMO the punisher gatling canon is a great choice for mind games. 20 shots autowounding on 6s is hard to ignore, and I've found that my opponents are disproportionally worried by it compared to the damage it does on paper.
I'm glad you brought up re rolls. The vanquisher and executioner will pull away even more with one built in re roll. It mitigates the swinginess in the vanquisher hit and wound roll. I want to see the stats vs the demolisher and battle cannon with a re roll.
I actually still have a small guard army themed around being armored recon and used Conquerors and Exterminators back when they used to be cheaper, points wise. Lore wise, the Conqueror and Exterminator are supposed to be faster due to the weight savings, but never translated to tabletop.
I want to play the song: "GAS GAS GAS", as I Tokyo drift an Exterminator Leman Russ around a city corner and open up on the flank of Ork speed freaks, popping trukks and warbikes.
you could also take the tank ace trait that gives you a 5+ save for the executioner against mortal wounds. i think the nover cannon is quite handy as it also ignores strats and doctarians that give units cover it also ignores the hit mods for cover as well. the vanquisher deserves more credit even if it is a single shot because if anything is worth a reroll it is so your hit and wound rate is far more likely
I rock a Vanquisher, a Demolisher, and a Punisher…. Huh lots of Ers….. I was looking into another tank to grab. Looks like I’ll be grabbing another Er with the Executioner!
Great video buddy. Really useful advice.
I really want a Vanquisher, because that long tank hunter barrel looks just great. You can get it quite reliable, so I still like it.
The punisher seems awsome against deamons, doesn't it. Not sure if it's worth it for that since guard can get volume of shots elsewhere. It depends the army composition I guess.
I think the 1-reroll tank ace also works well with a hull-mounted Lascannon since it gives another single, chunky shot to use your hit reroll with if you don't need it for the Vanquisher.
Vanquisher with hull lascannon, sponson meltas, and maybe a hunter killer missile for kicks. It's meant to face down the heaviest targets on the other side of the board, like heavy lancer cavalry in tank form. Of course, needs thorough infantry and possible anti-air support. Is hard to field in large numbers. Obligatorily bring a tank ace per squadron of these whenever possible. This type of squadron is the titan hunters I would bring if I don't have a dedicated Baneblade pattern like the Shadowsword. Chimeras with plenty of heavy bolters would be a good dragoon option to support such a Vanquisher squadron against horde armies. Maybe throw in a Basilisk or other artillery platform for extra payload. Squadrons of armored sentinels could be also an interesting option when facing other targets than hordes.
The exterminator autocannon has had the wrong profile since way back in the index for 8th. It should be heavy 8, as before 8th ed it was heavy 4 twin linked. Yet when it came to 8th or later it was just a twin auto cannon. it also used to be one of the few none ordinance russes that could move and shoot, but that's not really a thing any more so it is rather out mode. the executioner has always been solid.
You sir are a star. Thanks for the great content.
Punisher also has the niche use of being the absolute best if you really want to use the pinning fire mechanized order. Pinning fire alone will help neuter the speed of any unit and combine it with Mental shackles psychic power and a powerful melee infantry unit isn’t going anywhere. Not great but it does have that order going for it too.
I like the style of your videos.
My tank core is gonna be a Tank Commander with Gatekeeper, Lascannon and 2 HBs and ignore cover tank ace ability, and a squadron of 3 regular ones, two with Executioner plasma cannons and one Vanquisher with tank ace for the trait that allows to reroll one hit roll. Seems like a quite balanced and versatile combination, support this core with some ponies and Kasrkin and it should make a pretty nice list.
the thing Iike about the brutal 1 shot No invuln's on vehicles is if you have kept it alive for Mid game (with range from the enemy) you can use them as assassins with high (or slightly reduced) movement. with bait targets and coaxing enemy character beatsticks into traps and fall back...
I loved the twin linked Las cannon of the animator variatan
Now compare the Gatekeeper Relic Battle Cannon, Executioner Cannon, and Tank Ace for 1 re-roll Vanquisher Cannon.
Good thing I magnetized my Leman Russ Demolisher and my second is a Battle Cannon. Figured they wouldn't be to terrible in the new codex. It is surprisingly though that the Executioner looks so good against almost anything, but Plasma is overall in a sweet spot for strength, AP and damage compared to so many other weapons.
So, for my 6 tanks.
Armoured Superiority and Elite Gunner (count as multiple models per tank and 1 reroll per turn)
2 Commanders, 1 with Gate Keeper, 1 with Demolisher with Warlord Trait to order itself.
2 Erradicators accompany Gatekeeper. 1 Vanquisher moves where needed. 1 Punisher Accompanies Demolisher. Lots of Plasma Cannons and Flamers for Sponsons.
Hmm... I'll need to work on this.
Not watched yet, but going to guess that Executioner will be math in as the best all-rounder and Vanquisher being the best dedicated anti-armour.
Gatekeeper will also be amazing.
Plagueburst has armor of contempt, not sure if you took that into account but it would change the numbers if you didn’t
GW messed up with the Rogal Dorn. Guard needed a troop tank, practically speaking, not a larger tank than the Russ. They need something that you can take masses of and just chuck them at the enemy.
Hammer of the emperor on a squadron of executioners covered in plasma just sounds absolutely terrifying.
Plus with all the other buffs on top of that. *shudders*
Yep, with 2+ save and AOC, Guard is going to be shooting folks off the table for a while until the nerf bat comes around as it always does.
Well, at least on the russes.
You are a legend thank you
I know that this audience is more aimed at matched/competitive play, but theoretically with crusade you could bump the Punisher to damage 2 which could be pretty scary
That’s neat, how would you bump it to 2?
I'd like to see the stats with pound them to dust and the re roll 1s orders applied. Considering how easy it is to get them
Still miss my Leman Russ Conquerors, they were a fun turret option
What gets Auspex most excited? Data and spreadsheets!
Hmm with conscripts out of the codex, punisher cannon is not a bad option I think, although I am going to miss those 40 dice (now it is cheaper though).
The prime job of a tank is to take out heavy threats. So I'd go with the Demolisher since it's great against any vehicle or terminators. I'd pair it with an anti infantry gun on the hull to deal with hordes. That way you are effective into any army.
RIP Nova cannon, best looking gun on the russ, still one of the worst game wise huh? I was hoping the changes would boost it up a bit but I guess GW still isn't great at math.
Just proxy it as a Battle Cannon, that's what I do with my conqueror turrets.
The nova cannon was very good in 7th edition
@@ColonelMetus 7th is seen as the dark edition. nobody talks about it since it was something no one wishes to remember. 7th never existed
@@ColonelMetus I remember those days back when cover was a save and screwing over cultists was a fun past time.
The Eradicator was my bread and butter along with the Executioner pre-8th ed. Its stats made it a potent anti infantry specialist. When 8th edition rolled around everything that made it special became redudant. This was their chance to make it special again and they blew it.
The best variant depends strongly on the rest of the army. I think Nova Cannon and Autocannon variants are worst, rest is ok. As now normal guardmen with lasrifles can do some damage at range with the FRFSRF order, I think the big guns are best on the LR, because they are quite tough for their points. I now prefer the Vanquisher cannon, with 1-3 HEavy Bolters. So it can fire its main cannon at big threads, but still can do something against hordes, too!
I'm giving serious thoughts to a blob of 3 Executioner Russes, with a TC using Gatekeeper or Vanquisher. Probably all with HB/2HF in hull and sponsons.
Excellent video
Great video! Can we see something similar for the different classes of baneblade
As for the punisher, if it were like the A-10 Warthog's rotary cannon and what that does to ground targets...........cause it still looks really cool.
Orks may have dakka but humans have BBBBRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRT
The punisher had its time in 8th. (whats left of) 9th belongs to the Vanquisher.
Im just loving the stratagem to have your opponent come in turn 3 whit reserves. My brother plays Thousand sons and demons so hes going to have to deal whit my Leman russ fire the first turns
Even better is to screen out turn 2 and deny turn 3 that way any reserves either come in in a carp position or don't come in at all
@@neilbatterham8370 Easy to do if you have enough guardsman spread out around the board.
For the love of Terra please, please change the picture of the leman Russ so the turret matches the one your talking about.
2 weeks into the hobby there are enough things to remember without also memorizing every turret name and model 😂
Punisher seems to be tailor made to kill ork boyz (just enough strength to wound on 3s, just enough AP to remove all armour saves and Dam 1 so no overkill).
The punisher is great for applying pinning fire but that's about it I think
Just cut off a punisher's gun and replaced with a vanquisher barrel meaning that squad has a plasma, punisher and vanquish. Just got to decide if the 3 demolisher squad should become 2 and a plasma now.. 🤔 tank commander gets to keep his relic battle cannon (1 battle, 1 plasma, 2 punish, 3 demolish - to - 1 battle, 2 plasma, 1 punish, 2 demo and 1 vanquish) think I'll do it and get my 7 russ's ready for 9th... got a whole 7-8months to play with them.. lol
I think Battle Cannons are going to be on tank commanders while your normal Leman Russ run the Plasma Cannon because they can get re rolls while the TC can't. The same argument can be used for vanquisher cannons as well.
You could even get a lone vauisher tank ace ordering itsef, right? That might be worth a shot.
@@Gnarlf Tank Commanders can't order themselves anymore.
@@WarRabb1t Yes a tank comander couldn't do it out of the box.
However i understud it to be, because tank comanders dont have the *squadron* key word.
There is a tank ace upgrade to allow a normal Leman Russ to issue orders.
Since it doesnÄt make him loose his own *squadron* keyword, he should then be able to issue the order to himself.
If that is not what is intended, then there would be a warlord trait, that allows an officer to order his own unit. I think that trait can affect tank comanders.
@@Gnarlf isn't that only for Rogal Dorns and Super Heavies?
@@WarRabb1t right, that might be the case. Hmm... ok, new plan. Shadowsword instead of Vanquisher then 😋✌️
Would it have been a problem if the Nova Cannon could ignore heavy and light cover? Would better cement what it's intended niche is.
Heavy only affects melee.
@@XealotCoils Ah gotcha. Thanks.
So a tank commander with the relic, supporting a ex plasma with the re roll order is most llikely the most optional play.
Why /one/ ex plasma? Why not /three/.
(Because it's way too many points on one single spot of the field, that's why.)
Plasma weaponry is meant to be lost tech or did the Imperium find the STC for it in the few years? Same price as a Battle cannon doesn't make sense.
I feel sorry for any knights players who run into a IG player with a Vanquisher or three in their lineup
My Armageddon Ork Hunters will still field their punisher next to their hellhounds
Im bringing a punisher to use the supressing fire tank order to slow units
Punisher can still be used to break crusade games unfortunately. Artificer Weapon on a Tank Commander gives 1 mortal wound for every 6 to hit, in addition to the normal damage that attack might produce. When you have 20 shots that can be downright devastating. Otherwise yeah, for matched play it doesn't really seem worth it to me.
The Punisher is great verses swarm armies, so melee rush across the board without any transport focused Orks such as snakebite or goffs. As well as swarm focused mass body trooper Tyranids, along with other Imperial Guard armies that are conscript heavy, considering conscript heavy armies are meta right now in tournament play, it is a good way to make tryhards cry. Ok against Eldar (all 5 different factions), Mechanicus and Tau. Breaks Even against Space Marines (loyalists and traitors alike); Bad for everything else, especially big Tyranids.
I agree, it is just one of those units you keep in your army box to bring to battles if you really want to shine on an opponent who is mass rushing conscripts or a melee rush ork or nid army to teach them a lesson for using an unbalanced cheese list.
It seems that *as usual* Plasma weapons are the best! When it comes to any Imperial Guard anything, be it table top or the video games. Are they worth the risk? Almost all the time... YES!
Suppose instead of trying make it more powerful, they made it noticeably CHEAPER, would the Exterminator be a better option then?
It’s not as good at anti-infantry as the Punisher, and not as good at anti-armor as the Battle Tank, but it’s got long range and it costs less to add to an army than either of those.
a random question: I am not sure about objective secure with space marines. I don't know which unit can have objective secure ability. Nice video by the way
All troops have objective secured. But Space Marines have a warlord trait called Rites of War that gives a 6 inch aura around the character that gives other units objective secured. Not sure if it's only core units but you get the point.
I think the eradicator should/could be like HevD3+6 S6 Ap-2 Dam2 ignores cover and invulnerable saves and then it would have a purpose. A real deamon hunter / low toughness but invulnerable save units XD
Exterminator seems like it will always be in a weird spot. Autocannons shoot twice each.. max shots i can image would be 8.. 5 per barrel seems to not make sense...
Maybe Hev8 S7 ap-2 D2 rerolling hits and wounds or something
As a subatomic shell I always imagined it working like a melta weapon in a way, not a beam but a ballistic melta charge. Wish russes had more energy weapons rather than 4 cannons and some shooty shooty guns
you say: " Seems usable though! " After just explaining all of the reasons why you pretty much never have to use the punisher cannon :S. I know 40 bullets before was too much. (they increased the points in 8th because it would've been too efficient in 8th) But they could've taken it to 30 instead of slicing the number in half. And yer the eradicator nova and exterminator cannons. I mean we have people who do the math. There is no way GW is too dumb for this. So how can these happen :S ?. I think they just couldnt think of anything better to make them stand out.
GW is absolutely that dumb. They sell to addicts, and that doesn't take any intelligence.
Dump question, but extra damage is lost on lower W models right?
AKA you hit a guardsman with a dam 3 weapon it doesn't "bleed over" and kill 3 total guys right?
Correct
if i run all executioners. what do i run for the best sponsons and hull mounted
Demolishers vs Battle Cannons seem really good against Death Guard.
What happened to the incinerator? Can you still use it?
I think the auto cannon is good enough for casual play. Since if you spam the good options people will probably not want to play against you. I say 1 vanquisher/plasma and max 2 battle cannons for casual. The nova cannon is actually good against the "if you are have the benefits of cover then..." units. I think that when the data slate comes out, the russ turret options will get points adjustments, the "all turrets cost the same" screams "we'll fix it in post"
Never understood why in the game, there is never a multi-laser for a hull or sponson mount for the Leman Russ, or multi-laser for the heavy weapon teams. In lore it makes sense. So many other guard vehicles have them as standard weapon options.
Or autocannons in the hull/sponsons. Carnodon has autocannon sponsons, why not russ?
Surely GW had one job and that was to make the Nova cannon and Autocannons turrets actual alternatives! 🤦🏼♂️ The Nova should be D6+6 shots and ignore heavy cover too, and the Autocannons should be Heavy 8, Str 7 (why are they 8?), AP-2, and D3 damage instead…imo.
Cause they're real big autocannons...
Heavy cover only affects melee...
Where do the breeches of any of these guns fit inside those turrets...
So did guard lose grinding advance? That for me would be a major factor when taking a punisher.
Yes. Most of the weapons got a lot better to compensate, Punisher not so much.
Dont know where to ask but how is the armageddon baskalisk looking? is it a viable thing in games? I love its look!
so how about the baneblades now. how do they stack up to each other
just pick shadowsword to kill everything BIG IN SIGHT. after that 2 leman russ would kill other things
Gonna be using my shadowsword now. Used it a little just because it's cool, but now its a real threat
Based on auspexes last vid, the stormsword (I think) (suped up demolisher) is your best choice.
Forgive me if this is a stupid question but does the "base cost" include the turret cost and if not how much do they cost point-wise.
Anyone know what the heavy flamer range is? If its 12, then plus 4 for the doctrine, then executioner and triple flamer is gonna be lol on my tank company
I'm surprised there's no annihilator version, but I guess with a vanquisher and a plasmacannon and there's no point in having it
Have you done a vid like this for Votann? I've gone through em not sure if I'm missing one.
YES I love this video
The Plasma looking solid if u had reroll 1
can you do the same with the baneblade ?
Although the exterminator and nova cannon aren't as good as the others they are far closer than they were.
Guys, never play Auspex at 0.5 speed. It's cursed.
I still miss the annihilator
I feel like I’m the only one that liked the punisher it used to have 20 shots and if you don’t move you get to fire it again that’s 40shots in one turn that always helped me against my mates nids
Punisher is my fave too.
Yeah, vanquisher is finally good again. Was literally a joke for a long time.
I really don't like the executioner without consistent re-rolling 1s. You might only take 1mw on average a turn, but the times when you roll 3-5 1s are going to cost you the game.
rolling 3-5 1s is likely going to cost you the game regardless.
I feel like you want atleast one vanquisher in your list to pick up enemy vehicles
Too bad the Eradicator Nova cannon always sucks because it's the coolest looking option IMO.
Man, looking at this breakdown really brings into perspective how unfit for purpose weapon profiles are. In what reality is a battle cannon doing d6+3 shots in a round? Most of these guns should be shooting once and going bang in various different ways. I get that the shots profile is to differentiate between their effects but it just feels so bad when you have to disassociate number of shots you get in game to what you imagine actually happening.
quantity over quality works best for me so ill be taking the punisher, averages dont exist in my games so just dump dice and hope.
Exterminator is the best.
Battle cannon- boring
Vanquisher, just a long battle cannon
Demolisher ok kinda cool has some decently original lore
Eradicator just a bigger demolisher
Executioner just a big plasma cannon that has no niche.
Exterminator is the most unique in appearance and in lore. This makes it the best.
do they still get grinding advance?
That rule is confirmed to be gone in the new codex
its weird how the executioner went from the worst tank gun, to the best this codex
"Exterminator Autocannon" cries in heavy psycannon
But what's the best for fighting T5? I fight T5 almost exclusively among my friends.
Death Guard, Necrons, and orks are what my friends play with sisters being the odd ball out.
I miss the annihilator version
This! I kitbashed me some twin lascannons and have made 3 of them, I think it’s the best look for a leman russ. That and the plasma cannon bring the russ from looking like a WW1 tank into a 41st millennium tank
Tfw built an autocannon one because it looked cool but is pretty much the worst one
It looks SO cool. One day it'll pan out. I just finished an Annihilator kitbash cause the dual guns look so cool but the auto cannon are so bad.
It does have a good niche. Use your infantry to bog stuff down in melee, and then use your autocannons to focus down those squads. Lack of blast means you can fire it into melee with new guard rules