From the 8th chapter of the Codex Astartes: " _Note to my remaining brother Primarchs: I have left room in this structure for a handful of what I've termed "Weird Novelty Companies". I know each of you has your own Thing you like to do with your marines, like making entire armies on bikes or making your veterans act as scouts as some kind of prank. Please try not to have more than one or two Novelty Companies, though, as it will make it harder to explain to father once he gets back. Love, Bobby._ "
@@Blacknight8850 Both Corax and Khan agree with his codex. Corax himself was close to Roboute surprisingly. Russ and Sigismund just did their own thing, ironically rather sensible with the Great Companies and Crusades.
Yeah I kept expecting their faces to pop up Mortal Kombat 'Toasty' style in the bottom corner of the video when it was said, but would break the tone of the video Glad at least I wasn't the only one thinking this 😄
My partner sometimes watches Ian's videos with me and always says something like "It's annoying because I don't care about Warhammer (it's true, she doesn't), but he's just *so engaging* and I end up watching him anyway"
I’m convinced GW would love to go back and change the lore to Chapters being 10,000 Astartes. Now that the Heresey has been fleshed out through the novels and the sheer scale of galactic warfare been detailed, going from 300,000 -500,000 strong to a mere 1,000 seems a bit silly. 1,000 Astartes would be stretched incredibly thinly to actually achieve what they’re supposed to be capable of in the lore.
Space Marine chapters being stretched thinly is _kind of the point._ The Imperium is disintegrating, chipped away by constant attacks, in prosecuting its forever-wars, and from central bureaucratic systems breaking down. Worlds on the periphery defaulting to feudalism as a necessary function to maintain local control, which leads to every decade or century seeing a planetary governor overstepping their authority or outright rebelling. All of this BEFORE the Cicatrix Maledictim broke the galaxy in half. Space Marines are bound by size guidelines turned into all but ironclad rules, by a paranoid council of High Lords who fear Legion-building. That this slowly strangles the Imperium to death by stretching its forces too thin...is part of the satire.
100% this. I’m kind of surprised they didn’t use the Primaris marines as an excuse to increase chapter sizes. Guilliman decrees 1000 brothers are no longer enough for each chapter to face the new threats facing the imperium etc
I usually take whatever number GW gives and add one or two more zeros at the end to make things make sense. Just look at the war for Armageddon for a good example of this, it also make chapters less silly, i can believe a single chapter can change the tide if the war, i cannot believe they alone would be able to fight a planetary sized war alone, even less when you see the numbers the usual enemies like the orks usually have around
Hello, n00b here. When I first dive on the Core Book and Space Marines Codex I found very unrealistic the one thousand Astartes per chapter but, after seeing plenty of stuff the veteran players do with the minis, I guess it makes sense why GW left that number: We could be crazy enough to make a whole 1000 Astartes Chapter just for fun, and I would bet someone already made a lore accurate, codex compliant complete Ultramarines Chapter.
Them being stretched really thing was sorta the point. The Imperium was never winning, there were never enough space marines and through a combination of dogma and fear of transhumans kept them from expanding. Because they were ultimately proven to be untrustworthy (Because no matter how many worlds they saved, half turned traitor in the heresy and caused this whole mess.)
12:17 "To remain tactically flexible the vast majority of the chapter would be assigned to the battleline role" piqued my curiosity so I succumbed and did the maths. There are 60 battleline marines in each of the 4 battle companies, and the 2 reserve tactical companies each have 100 battleline marines, for a grand total of 440 battleline marines, or not quite half the chapter. Definitely the largest battlefield role in the chapter, but not comprising the majority of its marines! (Though I guess some of the vanguard marines in the 10th could be in battleline squads, but that's hard to nail down and even if that company has a battle company type division of squads that only nudges the numbers up to 500, so bang-on half the chapter and still not quite a majority.) Sorry for the pedantry, it was honestly spurred on by curiosity about quite how many battleline marines there actually were in a chapter, not the need to "um actually" you!
I think Brother Ian missed a critical word; is that it's more of "[...] the majority of the COMPANIES " But majority is meant to be understood as, "the largest type of companies"
It IS the majority, if you assume all the other parts are counted separately. Which is the entire point of the battlefield roles system. Command, Veteran, Close Support, and Fire Support (plus the various other parts, like Reclusium or Apothecarion) may, collectively, outnumber the Battleline. But each _individually_ is dwarfed by the Battleline troops.
If they are the largest single bloc (they are) then they are the majority. There are 180 each of Close and Fire Support, and 100 Veterans which means that they’re the largest bloc by about 260 (or more additionally than there are of another role) that’s a vast majority
"The Chapter is like a mountain and it cannot survive without it's base, the chosen of the chapter are that base" more or less what Ordinator Savali said in the novel Rynn's World. the chapter Serfs are a really underrated element of space marine chapters that i love seeing. Rynn's World really does them justice, painting their loss as equal to the loss of the other space marines of the chapter. Spear of the Emperor also has an amazing framing device for the story, telling it from the perspective of a female Helot for a Mentor Legion Marine, and barring some confusing bits that revolve around early primaris story retcons, it's just an amazing read, with the Helot's story being an excellent view into the life of the regular men and women who serve the chapters. hell even devastation of Ba'al has a few good moments where a more cruel space marine chapter is aghast at the idea of being greeted by human blood angel auxiliaries who refer to themselves as members of the chapter.
Hell, even Talos from the Night Lords novels treated some of his slaves with SOME respect and they became pretty awesome characters, even if they're filthy heretics
I'm not a fan of the new organisation - I much preferred the old Tactical, Assault, Devastator, Scout divisions. But that's alright, I had decades of that and I have my army, so I don't need to worry about the new stuff. I'm sure new players prefer the way it is now, that's the way of things.
idk im new and i already miss the old stuff LOL i kinda wish they had found a way to integrate the old marines into the new primaris structure better. Like reworking/updating the scale so they werent quite so different. My headcanon is that heresy era marines were closer to primaris size but over time they just got worse at making new marines or geneseed wasnt as pure etc. Hence the varying scales over time
I remember doing some quick and loose maths on how big the serf population of a chapter would be back in the day, and I think I came to them having to number in the MILLIONS. This depends a bit on if you include stuff like fuel refinenement and agriculture, which admittedly chapters might simply tithe from other worlds. But even at the very minimum, a chapter would need to have hundreds of thousands of serfs to do construction, repair and technical maintenance of the fortress monastery, void ships and vehicles, keep the fortress monastery clean, remove garbage, cook food, manufacture clothes, stock up medicines, keep watch and guard millions of square meters of corridors and halls that are just way too inconvenient to assign marines to, possibly raise children to be new serfs, pilot and crew vehicles, work scanners and do intelligence work, do communication, serve as secretaries and archivists and scribes, and of course do all of those same things in the chapter fleet. There are just so few marines that so much HAS to be left in the hand of the serfs.
The US Marines like to say that every one of their members is a rifleman first. They get away with that because their logistics tail - so all the non-combat roles that the Army has to include - is handled by the Navy. This just feels like a sci-fi/sci-fa version of that.
The one thing I never got with chapter organisation is how you have a captain AND a head chaplain be the master of chapter relics.They must step on each other's toes a lot!
The one that bothers me the most is the 4th company captain who is not only a battle captain, but also master of the whole fleet. The man must be constantly on the edge of burning out.
I think about it this way. Head chaplain holds onto the relics and does all the maintenance and holy reverance of them. The captain is responsible for guarding and distributing them when needed. He has to track them like an armoury. The chaplain has to make sure every gun gets prayed over before battle. I don't think if that's canon but that's how it works in my head.
Kinda feels a bit hysterical to think of the astral claws doing literally anything they could to amass a legion-esque army yet still by most estimates being so tiny compared to actual 30k era legions. Then again in the past, I would’ve assumed that such a thing was just not really possible even if one of the OG chapters decided to do it and the imperium allowed it; then Cael showed up and now it’s like “fuck it; why not”.
Really, the whole "legion building" thing is more intent based than a strict reading. Even the most codex fanatical chapters are going to be over 1000 marines at full strength, and the Ultramarines are explicitly trying to squeeze more marines into the margins. Creatively torturing the margins is fine, there's nothing wrong with wanting to bring more space marines into a fight. The Space Wolves are explicitly way over strength but essentially have an exception due to the circumstances of their geneseed. They're not legion building because using them as a legion just plain wouldn't work. The Black Templars are way way over strength, but they get away on both the "crusading" technicality and also because they're always split up into smaller crusades with enough autonomy that while the chapter may be oversized, they can't take advantage of those numbers. The Astral Claws on the other hand explicitly were legion building. 3000 space marines strong, actively expanding, and both capable and willing to use the weight of those numbers. If you know your loopholes, you can go over the 1000 space marines, but if you try to pull something fast, the imperium can and will smell a rat.
Fantastic video, please more of these if you can! Love the differentiation between new and old lore for people like myself who haven't really caught up with what a Primaris is but still like a good old lore video - I see it and appreciate it! :D
It only just now stuck me, but the Mentors Chapter's organization is very reminiscent of a medieval Knight's Lance - which was usually a Knight, a Man-at-Arms or Armiger (which is where that word comes from for Imperial Knights), an Archer (especially for the English, other nations tended to use crossbowmen), the Knight's Squire, and one or two servants.
I think the difference between that is and the Mentor's Chapter Serfs are that Squires and pages were generally apprentices and they would become knights themselves. If it was a neophyte/scout in that role it would be a closer analogy.
@@VanDiemensLander Yes, but the rest of the lance was pretty much at the top of their career arc. I agree that having a Neophyte along would make the comparison stronger... but then again not all knights had a formal square. Anyway, whilst its not perfect I do think it's a strong parallel.
Looking at the new roles avalible to the Chapters following Guillimans return really hammered home how much of the "grimdark loss of knowlage and progress" really was a thing for the Marines. I wonder what the feat comparing people in the fandoms would have to say about the pre-return calcification of roles in a Chapter. Also, we see the cool "role swap" ability in Space Marine 2; Titus and his brothers exchange their gear on a regular basis depending on the situation, as well as gaining jump packs at certain points. Neat.
good god taking into acount that much permutation and detail and trying to remmember most of it is hard work, funny to think that GW unironically wants to have "lore masters" employed to keep lore acuracy high in oficial stuff, brother the amount of work these guys must go through. I am literally a med studant and i don't think i would be crazy enough for that
Stephen King has a guy he pays to keep across his amassed lore and let him know when he's already done something or would go against something else. Lucasarts used to have one for Star Wars as well during the era of the novels which are not the 'Legends' line. If anything, GW are late to this particular game :)
"Whilst we always thought that the Shenanigans Chapter was rigorously codex compliant; we have recently learned that, while they report only having 1000 members, they actually count in Base-20."
Brilliant vid! Exactly what I was looking for when I got back into the hobby when trying to work out who goes where and what symbols go on which shoulders! 😂
i just still think it's barmy that a spacefaring empire that fights daily has ONLY a million Astartes. I understand Guilliman's reasoning for doing it, but a million men could fit in a small city in England. I don't see how they would have the reach to go from one end of the Milky Way to the other.
The Space Marine are a fraction of the full Imperial military. And you are correct, they *are* not enough, hence why the Imperium has been in a constant game of tug of war with everyone else and itself as the same time.
The numbers have never made sense, because science fiction writers have no concept of scale. They'll describe the units involved in the War for Armageddon, and you'll realize this apocalyptic global war has fewer participants than most WWI battles.
Given what we know of the Marines, there should be hundreds of millions of them. If there was only a million, in an entire galaxy, they'd each have to be Primarch-tier in order to be as effective as depicted.
btw ian, can you talk about chapter auxiliaries? like, i know most chapters have regular humans as a military suport unit, the ultramarines got ultramar auxilia if i am not mistaken, there is even a picture of ultramarines and thousand sons before the heresy talking while their auxiliaries walk around, and of course, we know the extremely common use of regular soldiers by the alpha legion during the crusade, not sure if they still use them tho
Side note: I was under the impression that the Reclusiarch is not just another name for Master of Sanctity in most cases, but it's actually the 2nd in command of the Reclusium
The fact that the Phobos marines basically make up the 10th company now (even with the scout auxiliaries), it's pretty clear to me that the original idea was to have Phobos marines basically replace the old Scout Squads.
Roboute guilliman wrote the handbook on space marine organisation, turning each chapter into a well honed weapon for the destruction of the enemy. Then he went into stasis and 10000 years later came out with brain damage and let every chapter become a morass of differently armed specialists that cant do anything else because he seemingly no longer understands organistaion or logistics. Maybe he spent too long with the ynnari folks, because space marines are now organised more like the aeldari, with many specific battlefield roles and no crossover.
If new players were made to watch this video, r/40klore would become a barren wasteland. So many details explained clearly enough for anyone to understand, great work
I may be incorrect about this but I believe standard bearers being called ‘ancients’ is less a reference to being ancient vets and is a referring to the rank of ‘ensign’ who would traditionally carry the regimental colours.
I think there should be at least 1 ultima founding chapter that sticks entirely to firstborn equipment and chapter structure just to promote more homebrew and keep the older designs that many people prefer
It used to make a sort of sense with Devastators/Tacticals/Assaults, but now with Primaris and all their crazy squads it's hard to really make it make sense, the whole 100 marines in a company, 10 squads in a company, 1000 marines in a chapter.
My expectation is that the same Intercessor will be deployed as the various variants depending on the tactical needs, but I still prefer the previous organisation
Even before Primaris, 'assault' squads actually did four different things depending on what was required, all with different equipment load outs. It kinda just taking that and adding words for it.
@@ArbitorIan How I've done it for my own space marine 'company' is I sorta shoehorn in the smaller squads to make them add up as close to 10 as possible. Like taking 3 eliminators and making one of the 9 a sgt, and then 2 of the remaining two squads as corporals in essence. Makes a sort of sense since they're Raptors. It's not bad just not as... 'clean' I guess you can say. But the flexibility is nice.
I'm working on a homebrew chapter, which has 8 companies, each of which have a bit over 100 space marines, and at least 1000 mortal infantry, who are all failed neophytes. The number of mortal infantry keeps increasing, and the standards for recruiting neophytes keep dropping... Also, they use both primaris and firstborn gene seed, in order to make good their very high casualty rate since the turn of the millennium.
Now that 10th company is doing double duty for intel and recruitment (instead of just adding another independent reserve company for reconnaissance), their captains must be swamped with paperwork.
I'd like to point out that the Battlefield Role of Infernus Marines (flamer dudes from the 10th ed starter box) is a up in the air, kind of. See, the 10th edition codex lists them as Close-Support, but pretty much all the actual models from the promotional material and webstore have them marked as Fire Support. It's not that big a difference, because at the end of the day, both Battlefield Roles would still have them shooting flamers, but it is mildly interesting. Are they really so close-up to the enemy that they should be filed under Close-Support? Or as they don't primarily want to get into absolute point-blank range, but instead shoot their ranged weapons, does that make them Fire Support? Regardless of how little range their ranged weapons have? In the end, I decided mine would be Fire Support for the Dreaming Knights chapter. Plus, you know, maybe it's just too easy for our brains to link fire-throwing flamethrowers with fire support.
Let's have a little fun here, this is a (very) rough outline i'm working for a homebrew of mine. Here goes(assuming the attitude and voice of a rough, no-nonsense slav for extra amusement) - (slams fist on table) throw away that codex, good only for firewood or toilet paper(hold on, keep the captain additional roles)(tears a few pages, throws the rest away). Here in(chapter), we do it the slav way. If we are limited to 1000, we do like this - 3 times 300 brothers(a tri-company or division), one for tactical, one for assault, one for devastator. Remaining 100 we divide into 2 times 50 brothers(one for techmarine(we call them technomancer), one for medic(we call the biomancer). Where librarian and chaplain? Easy, those two are divided between techno- and biomancers(since we don't have any psykers(geneseed doesn't allow), tho we can draw upon the energies of the universe itself(including the warp, with extra danger if using it) to achieve the same thing, a la cryptek). Now, we also get 2(or 3, if -mancer) of 8 specializations/trainings(tactical gets marksman(range) and cqc(melee), assault gets warmachine(jumppacks and vehicles of all kinds) and cqc, devastator gets marksman and stealth(camo cloak/stealth field generator). You want more stuff - report to master of recruits for relevant training(field-repair, first-aid, spirit-break(hacking) and demolition(special explosives) are the remaining 4). Get all 8, get specialist title, access to whatever stuff you want plus right to use terminator armor when situation calls for it. Each company(of 100 strong) has captain and 2 lieutenants(1st leads the command squad, second leads 5th squad, both squads are specialist veteran). Command squads also field-test any new equipment made or developed by technonancers and give feedback for improvements. Each tri company is led by a chapter commander (captains rotate to be his second on regular basis). Both commander and captains are all specialists/veterans. Techno- and biomancers have following ranks - initiate, adept and master(depending on their seniority/power), with grand-master/archon being the highest rank equal to the chapter commander. Since there's no sole chapter master, said chapter commanders form the chapter council (akin to iron hands in a way). Company captains and lieutenants are also part of the council(since they spend the most times with their brothers and know them the best). For missions, whoever wishes can volonteur their company/individual squads, and requisitions whatever else they might need(including available ships). If we're talking over 1000, up the number to ten thousand fists(or 5000), divided to 1000 tactical, 1000 assault, 1000 devastator, 1000 technomancer and 1000 biomancer brothers(use above organization to divide them all evenly)(drops the rough no-nonsense slav act). Uh, that was a doozy. Any suggestions for improvement, as i said, it's a very rough outline? Edit to add: who's the wiseguy crossing my (admittedly long) text? All of it is important(slavic cursing).
Considering galactic scale of Warhammer 40K and even planetary assaults as typical war in this setting, 1000 wariors, even marines is ridiculously low number to be battle worthy force. Chapter should be 5-10k strong, hundreds of tanks, dreadnoughts and so on.
Well Marines aren't supposed to do planetary assault by themselves, or any kind of grand conflict really. They're specialists who does pivotal actions that normal soldiers can't do. Some GW writers hasn't got that memo though😁
I'd suspect that "true" size of Codex compliant chapter is somewhere between 1500-2000 marines once you include all the specialists roles. That said Space Marines are elite of the elite so 1000 is far more powerful then people tend to think.
ive never been convinced that they actually keep their numbers down to 1,000 like that seems so small and cant include the specialists, leadership or scout company imo for the logistics to make any sense at least. Especially for (ironically) the ultramarines. there seem to be SO many of them. So it’s like 1,000 mainline marines +everyone else
Yeah, a codex compliant chapter has always been over 1000 space marines at full strength and it's explicit that every chapter master is trying to squeeze as many marines as they can into the margins.
The Codex says what *should* be. But the Imperium do be a most labyrinthically byzantine place, so what actually *is*... Eeeeeeh, not necessarily the same
@@talscorner3696 I love how, in the lore, the Imperium doesn't even know what year it is; and that it changes from place to place. And, of course, "Time moves strangely in the Warp."
At the end of the crusade most of the big alien threats in the galaxy are gone (Ullanor Orks, Rangda) and after the heresy the Traitor legions are broken, severely understrength and fractured into warbands. Can totally see the sense in 'split our forces into a web of defences across the galaxy' rather than 'nine massive armies that crusade to nine places'
I'll start called my chapter standedbearer and company standardbearers ancients if I (for some reason) start an Ultramarine army. And even then, only for that army.
Marines were originally fairly generalist with support from special weapons. Now they feel more like aspect warriors, 5 guys with the same gun who do something highly specific.
Not a fan of the "Indomitus" changes. From squads of 10 with a Sergeant. Now squads of 3 or 5 with Sergeants. So it goes from 11 sergeants per company to 20-30 sergeants 😂
Always intended as *constructive* feedback (and really enjoy your vids): but _"Victualler"_ is pronounced more like 'vittler'. (Think 'littler' or bigger than) (I do know you like to employ _diverse_ pronunciations, also that things can change in the course of 39000 years...)
Ive an unrelated question; is toilet paper considered an essential war production, whitin imperium, due to its existance making huge diference for how much power nurgle gets from materium, or does imperium not provide toilet paper, as they want to keep existance of chaos as Secret as possible to regular citicen and enforced law to use toilet paper, would raise questions that would inevetably bring nurgle into public consiosness and increese his cult precence, or is toilet paper and its production mechanics kept secret, whitin cells beneth imperial palace, for when similar way to destroy other chaos gods is discovered, so they can be wiped out whitin week?
Very poorly. GW have no sense of scale whatsoever. 1k fighting marines per a chapter is a laughably low number on a galactic scale. They should have it either keep it very vague or multiply it by a factor of hundred at least.
I'm quite fond of the idea that the numbers actually are accurate, and that the Imperium is running on empty, it's just that we're never shown this 'cos most lore is (to a greater or lesser degree) Imperial propaganda.
The Codex is a political tool to ensure that the Heresy doesn't happen again by diluting super soldier concentrations (the same super soldiers who made a mess last time). Being the best fighting force the Imperium has ever seen was not the main goal xD And, yes, the Imperium *is* running on empty ever since
Only having up to and around 1000 marines in a whole chapter always felt like far too few, and one of those scale things that 40k kinda struggles with sometimes. That’s why all the marines in my chapter are in one big gay polyamorous relationship with each other
Major campaigns always features multiple Chapters, even dozens. For protecting a relatively small area of space from intermittent, relatively small threats, 1000 Marines is plenty.
my headcanon is that it’s usually like 1,000 mainline marines and then everyone else too. Like the apothecary/techmarines/pilots/dreadnoughts and chapter leadership not being counted in that number. Same with the Scouts and in some cases the reserves too. in many chapters i kinda doubt the veterans are counted either (dark angels for example) which i guess is kinda what the primaris organization is saying. but idk im saying they had like roughly 1000 nonspecialists deployed and probably a ton more in reserve and as specialists/leadership/veterans and vehicle crew etc. idk im kinda repeating myself but ive always assumed that even in the Ultramarines that 1000 was actually far far more it you counted them
From the 8th chapter of the Codex Astartes: " _Note to my remaining brother Primarchs: I have left room in this structure for a handful of what I've termed "Weird Novelty Companies". I know each of you has your own Thing you like to do with your marines, like making entire armies on bikes or making your veterans act as scouts as some kind of prank. Please try not to have more than one or two Novelty Companies, though, as it will make it harder to explain to father once he gets back. Love, Bobby._ "
Firm, but Fair
Kind of him, honestly.
Canon.
Genuinely thought this was a real quote until "Love, Bobby"
@@Blacknight8850 Both Corax and Khan agree with his codex. Corax himself was close to Roboute surprisingly.
Russ and Sigismund just did their own thing, ironically rather sensible with the Great Companies and Crusades.
A nearly 40 min long video dedicated to military logistics and organizational structures? Lord-Commander Guilliman would be proud
As someone who hates Girlyman but loves logistic, organisation and rome this makes me angry
It even features PowerPoint slides; it is almost like watching a Perun video.
That implies Guilliman feels any emotion
Missed an opportunity to have a running gag cameo with snipe and wib whenever’codex compliant’ was said 😂
YES. Honestly. Plus, I'm only halfway through Imp Guard 1 3e 😱 these videos are looong, and I'm on the go 😂
Yeah I kept expecting their faces to pop up Mortal Kombat 'Toasty' style in the bottom corner of the video when it was said, but would break the tone of the video
Glad at least I wasn't the only one thinking this 😄
As a Black Templar player I have no idea what I just watched.
Just nod your head and pretend you agree with it. Just remember when your crusading none of it matters
Toilet paper advertisment.
You are watching toilet paper advertisment.
Ian: "The Executioners call their 2nd Company captain 'The Master of Blades'."
Drazhar: "U wot, mate?"
I see you've played Knifey-Spoony before...
Suppressor. Outrider, bladegaurd, cake cutter, battlefield sweeper, the Primaris have a squad for everything.
And every company has a goalie and understudy
I love how Ian manages to distills complexity into manageable bites. This is why I always come back here.
And the book club.
My partner sometimes watches Ian's videos with me and always says something like "It's annoying because I don't care about Warhammer (it's true, she doesn't), but he's just *so engaging* and I end up watching him anyway"
I’m convinced GW would love to go back and change the lore to Chapters being 10,000 Astartes. Now that the Heresey has been fleshed out through the novels and the sheer scale of galactic warfare been detailed, going from 300,000 -500,000 strong to a mere 1,000 seems a bit silly.
1,000 Astartes would be stretched incredibly thinly to actually achieve what they’re supposed to be capable of in the lore.
Space Marine chapters being stretched thinly is _kind of the point._ The Imperium is disintegrating, chipped away by constant attacks, in prosecuting its forever-wars, and from central bureaucratic systems breaking down. Worlds on the periphery defaulting to feudalism as a necessary function to maintain local control, which leads to every decade or century seeing a planetary governor overstepping their authority or outright rebelling.
All of this BEFORE the Cicatrix Maledictim broke the galaxy in half.
Space Marines are bound by size guidelines turned into all but ironclad rules, by a paranoid council of High Lords who fear Legion-building. That this slowly strangles the Imperium to death by stretching its forces too thin...is part of the satire.
100% this. I’m kind of surprised they didn’t use the Primaris marines as an excuse to increase chapter sizes. Guilliman decrees 1000 brothers are no longer enough for each chapter to face the new threats facing the imperium etc
I usually take whatever number GW gives and add one or two more zeros at the end to make things make sense.
Just look at the war for Armageddon for a good example of this, it also make chapters less silly, i can believe a single chapter can change the tide if the war, i cannot believe they alone would be able to fight a planetary sized war alone, even less when you see the numbers the usual enemies like the orks usually have around
Hello, n00b here. When I first dive on the Core Book and Space Marines Codex I found very unrealistic the one thousand Astartes per chapter but, after seeing plenty of stuff the veteran players do with the minis, I guess it makes sense why GW left that number: We could be crazy enough to make a whole 1000 Astartes Chapter just for fun, and I would bet someone already made a lore accurate, codex compliant complete Ultramarines Chapter.
Them being stretched really thing was sorta the point. The Imperium was never winning, there were never enough space marines and through a combination of dogma and fear of transhumans kept them from expanding. Because they were ultimately proven to be untrustworthy (Because no matter how many worlds they saved, half turned traitor in the heresy and caused this whole mess.)
The new format is so convoluted. Wayyy to many names. Tactical, assault, devastator, has such a beautiful simplicity.
12:17 "To remain tactically flexible the vast majority of the chapter would be assigned to the battleline role" piqued my curiosity so I succumbed and did the maths. There are 60 battleline marines in each of the 4 battle companies, and the 2 reserve tactical companies each have 100 battleline marines, for a grand total of 440 battleline marines, or not quite half the chapter. Definitely the largest battlefield role in the chapter, but not comprising the majority of its marines! (Though I guess some of the vanguard marines in the 10th could be in battleline squads, but that's hard to nail down and even if that company has a battle company type division of squads that only nudges the numbers up to 500, so bang-on half the chapter and still not quite a majority.)
Sorry for the pedantry, it was honestly spurred on by curiosity about quite how many battleline marines there actually were in a chapter, not the need to "um actually" you!
I think Brother Ian missed a critical word; is that it's more of "[...] the majority of the COMPANIES "
But majority is meant to be understood as, "the largest type of companies"
It IS the majority, if you assume all the other parts are counted separately. Which is the entire point of the battlefield roles system.
Command, Veteran, Close Support, and Fire Support (plus the various other parts, like Reclusium or Apothecarion) may, collectively, outnumber the Battleline. But each _individually_ is dwarfed by the Battleline troops.
If they are the largest single bloc (they are) then they are the majority. There are 180 each of Close and Fire Support, and 100 Veterans which means that they’re the largest bloc by about 260 (or more additionally than there are of another role) that’s a vast majority
I played rogue trader and this was one of the best explanations of a chapter I have seen or read, thanks
"The Chapter is like a mountain and it cannot survive without it's base, the chosen of the chapter are that base" more or less what Ordinator Savali said in the novel Rynn's World. the chapter Serfs are a really underrated element of space marine chapters that i love seeing. Rynn's World really does them justice, painting their loss as equal to the loss of the other space marines of the chapter. Spear of the Emperor also has an amazing framing device for the story, telling it from the perspective of a female Helot for a Mentor Legion Marine, and barring some confusing bits that revolve around early primaris story retcons, it's just an amazing read, with the Helot's story being an excellent view into the life of the regular men and women who serve the chapters. hell even devastation of Ba'al has a few good moments where a more cruel space marine chapter is aghast at the idea of being greeted by human blood angel auxiliaries who refer to themselves as members of the chapter.
Hell, even Talos from the Night Lords novels treated some of his slaves with SOME respect and they became pretty awesome characters, even if they're filthy heretics
Been homebrewing my own chapter recently. And this video is gonna help me with some of the finer details.
Thank you.❤
I'm so early the crusade hasnt even left Terra yet
I'm not a fan of the new organisation - I much preferred the old Tactical, Assault, Devastator, Scout divisions. But that's alright, I had decades of that and I have my army, so I don't need to worry about the new stuff. I'm sure new players prefer the way it is now, that's the way of things.
This is too reasonable a take for TH-cam 😂
idk im new and i already miss the old stuff LOL i kinda wish they had found a way to integrate the old marines into the new primaris structure better. Like reworking/updating the scale so they werent quite so different. My headcanon is that heresy era marines were closer to primaris size but over time they just got worse at making new marines or geneseed wasnt as pure etc. Hence the varying scales over time
You know what you can do to keep the old ways alive? Turn to Chaos...
This really is the best Warhammer channel
I remember doing some quick and loose maths on how big the serf population of a chapter would be back in the day, and I think I came to them having to number in the MILLIONS. This depends a bit on if you include stuff like fuel refinenement and agriculture, which admittedly chapters might simply tithe from other worlds. But even at the very minimum, a chapter would need to have hundreds of thousands of serfs to do construction, repair and technical maintenance of the fortress monastery, void ships and vehicles, keep the fortress monastery clean, remove garbage, cook food, manufacture clothes, stock up medicines, keep watch and guard millions of square meters of corridors and halls that are just way too inconvenient to assign marines to, possibly raise children to be new serfs, pilot and crew vehicles, work scanners and do intelligence work, do communication, serve as secretaries and archivists and scribes, and of course do all of those same things in the chapter fleet. There are just so few marines that so much HAS to be left in the hand of the serfs.
Ayup! Some of that can be offloaded to Servitors (different from serfs), but there's a reason Chapters take over entire planets xD
The US Marines like to say that every one of their members is a rifleman first. They get away with that because their logistics tail - so all the non-combat roles that the Army has to include - is handled by the Navy. This just feels like a sci-fi/sci-fa version of that.
Honestly this is why this is my favourite lore channel. The content sounds like im studying but its about content i enjoy.
12:26 oops, look like you left an pic of some flamers marines on the live-action bit!
I thought he was just cursing for a really, really long time
@@johnfraire6931 That's where my mind went too 😆
All details of a Warhammer video are canon and intentional. Especially the things that seem wrong ;)
The one thing I never got with chapter organisation is how you have a captain AND a head chaplain be the master of chapter relics.They must step on each other's toes a lot!
The one that bothers me the most is the 4th company captain who is not only a battle captain, but also master of the whole fleet. The man must be constantly on the edge of burning out.
I think about it this way. Head chaplain holds onto the relics and does all the maintenance and holy reverance of them. The captain is responsible for guarding and distributing them when needed. He has to track them like an armoury. The chaplain has to make sure every gun gets prayed over before battle.
I don't think if that's canon but that's how it works in my head.
The Reclusiarch takes care of the ritualistic stuff and the Master of Relics probably does the accounting
Kinda feels a bit hysterical to think of the astral claws doing literally anything they could to amass a legion-esque army yet still by most estimates being so tiny compared to actual 30k era legions.
Then again in the past, I would’ve assumed that such a thing was just not really possible even if one of the OG chapters decided to do it and the imperium allowed it; then Cael showed up and now it’s like “fuck it; why not”.
Really, the whole "legion building" thing is more intent based than a strict reading. Even the most codex fanatical chapters are going to be over 1000 marines at full strength, and the Ultramarines are explicitly trying to squeeze more marines into the margins. Creatively torturing the margins is fine, there's nothing wrong with wanting to bring more space marines into a fight.
The Space Wolves are explicitly way over strength but essentially have an exception due to the circumstances of their geneseed. They're not legion building because using them as a legion just plain wouldn't work.
The Black Templars are way way over strength, but they get away on both the "crusading" technicality and also because they're always split up into smaller crusades with enough autonomy that while the chapter may be oversized, they can't take advantage of those numbers.
The Astral Claws on the other hand explicitly were legion building. 3000 space marines strong, actively expanding, and both capable and willing to use the weight of those numbers.
If you know your loopholes, you can go over the 1000 space marines, but if you try to pull something fast, the imperium can and will smell a rat.
14:49 All I see are the symbols for HQ, Elites, Troops, Fast Attack, and Heavy Support.
A lot of the symbols date from 1st edition, before the old force org chart came into being, so they were space marine symbols first!
@anotherzingbo I love this.
Fantastic video, please more of these if you can!
Love the differentiation between new and old lore for people like myself who haven't really caught up with what a Primaris is but still like a good old lore video - I see it and appreciate it! :D
So, so good! I am continually impressed by the depth and level of detail in your vids!
Thanks for mentioning the Sons of Medusa. I almost forgot my daily routine of watching the Astartes 2 trailer
It only just now stuck me, but the Mentors Chapter's organization is very reminiscent of a medieval Knight's Lance - which was usually a Knight, a Man-at-Arms or Armiger (which is where that word comes from for Imperial Knights), an Archer (especially for the English, other nations tended to use crossbowmen), the Knight's Squire, and one or two servants.
I think the difference between that is and the Mentor's Chapter Serfs are that Squires and pages were generally apprentices and they would become knights themselves. If it was a neophyte/scout in that role it would be a closer analogy.
@@VanDiemensLander Yes, but the rest of the lance was pretty much at the top of their career arc. I agree that having a Neophyte along would make the comparison stronger... but then again not all knights had a formal square.
Anyway, whilst its not perfect I do think it's a strong parallel.
For someone who is considering to jump into 40k when 11th edition drops this was a nice and clean overview 🥰
Looking at the new roles avalible to the Chapters following Guillimans return really hammered home how much of the "grimdark loss of knowlage and progress" really was a thing for the Marines.
I wonder what the feat comparing people in the fandoms would have to say about the pre-return calcification of roles in a Chapter.
Also, we see the cool "role swap" ability in Space Marine 2; Titus and his brothers exchange their gear on a regular basis depending on the situation, as well as gaining jump packs at certain points.
Neat.
good god taking into acount that much permutation and detail and trying to remmember most of it is hard work, funny to think that GW unironically wants to have "lore masters" employed to keep lore acuracy high in oficial stuff, brother the amount of work these guys must go through. I am literally a med studant and i don't think i would be crazy enough for that
Stephen King has a guy he pays to keep across his amassed lore and let him know when he's already done something or would go against something else. Lucasarts used to have one for Star Wars as well during the era of the novels which are not the 'Legends' line. If anything, GW are late to this particular game :)
@@alastaircollins1145 seems so indeed
"Whilst we always thought that the Shenanigans Chapter was rigorously codex compliant; we have recently learned that, while they report only having 1000 members, they actually count in Base-20."
As opposed to the "Binary Sons" chapter who are... just two guys...
Brilliant vid! Exactly what I was looking for when I got back into the hobby when trying to work out who goes where and what symbols go on which shoulders! 😂
Incredible video. Enjoyed watching. Cheers.
Thank you! Cheers!
Thank you so much for this. Its so good to see all of this info in one place.
i am building an Ultramarines army atm and this helps so much! THANKs!
Ian again filling in the gaps of my knowledge. Thanks
Well I was going to get ready for work, but... OK, one video...
*"WELL I CAN'T READ!"*
- Lufgt Huron, probably.
Rogal Dorn, actually
@JoshuaKevinPerry
Sigismund, maybe.
i just still think it's barmy that a spacefaring empire that fights daily has ONLY a million Astartes. I understand Guilliman's reasoning for doing it, but a million men could fit in a small city in England. I don't see how they would have the reach to go from one end of the Milky Way to the other.
Well don't forget that lorewise 99+% of battles the imperium is involved in have no Astartes presence.
The Space Marine are a fraction of the full Imperial military.
And you are correct, they *are* not enough, hence why the Imperium has been in a constant game of tug of war with everyone else and itself as the same time.
The numbers have never made sense, because science fiction writers have no concept of scale. They'll describe the units involved in the War for Armageddon, and you'll realize this apocalyptic global war has fewer participants than most WWI battles.
Given what we know of the Marines, there should be hundreds of millions of them. If there was only a million, in an entire galaxy, they'd each have to be Primarch-tier in order to be as effective as depicted.
btw ian, can you talk about chapter auxiliaries? like, i know most chapters have regular humans as a military suport unit, the ultramarines got ultramar auxilia if i am not mistaken, there is even a picture of ultramarines and thousand sons before the heresy talking while their auxiliaries walk around, and of course, we know the extremely common use of regular soldiers by the alpha legion during the crusade, not sure if they still use them tho
wasn't even half way thru the video and my eyes just glazed with just the sheer details
Ah, a Space Wolf... ;)
Side note: I was under the impression that the Reclusiarch is not just another name for Master of Sanctity in most cases, but it's actually the 2nd in command of the Reclusium
Nice to see how the company & squad breakdowns have changed.
"it is more a set of guideline" as said captain Barbossa of the Black Pearl Chapter
I'm a new 40k player who collects Ultramarines. I want my markings and organisation to be as lore accurate as possible, so this video was great help.
I feel like im gonna have to come back to this video a few times to fully ingest the knowledge.
Codex compliants uses Metric System
The others uses Imperial
The fact that the Phobos marines basically make up the 10th company now (even with the scout auxiliaries), it's pretty clear to me that the original idea was to have Phobos marines basically replace the old Scout Squads.
Roboute guilliman wrote the handbook on space marine organisation, turning each chapter into a well honed weapon for the destruction of the enemy. Then he went into stasis and 10000 years later came out with brain damage and let every chapter become a morass of differently armed specialists that cant do anything else because he seemingly no longer understands organistaion or logistics.
Maybe he spent too long with the ynnari folks, because space marines are now organised more like the aeldari, with many specific battlefield roles and no crossover.
Weirdly enough they're organized as how the Legions was during the Great Crusade, the very thing Bobby G wanted to reform with the Codex.
If new players were made to watch this video, r/40klore would become a barren wasteland. So many details explained clearly enough for anyone to understand, great work
I may be incorrect about this but I believe standard bearers being called ‘ancients’ is less a reference to being ancient vets and is a referring to the rank of ‘ensign’ who would traditionally carry the regimental colours.
I knew Close Support included Infernus in 10th edition!!! Oh boi, this is very complicated.
Now I just want to know how the space marines of Prologue are organized
very very cool. Thanx.
maybe a typical chaos warband next?
VIII
The Black Templars have the Knight of the Inner circle that’s what the red signifies…I’ve heard references to this in several BT Books
If he weren't chem gelded Leandros would be rock hard for this video
I think there should be at least 1 ultima founding chapter that sticks entirely to firstborn equipment and chapter structure just to promote more homebrew and keep the older designs that many people prefer
It used to make a sort of sense with Devastators/Tacticals/Assaults, but now with Primaris and all their crazy squads it's hard to really make it make sense, the whole 100 marines in a company, 10 squads in a company, 1000 marines in a chapter.
My expectation is that the same Intercessor will be deployed as the various variants depending on the tactical needs, but I still prefer the previous organisation
Even before Primaris, 'assault' squads actually did four different things depending on what was required, all with different equipment load outs. It kinda just taking that and adding words for it.
@@ArbitorIan How I've done it for my own space marine 'company' is I sorta shoehorn in the smaller squads to make them add up as close to 10 as possible. Like taking 3 eliminators and making one of the 9 a sgt, and then 2 of the remaining two squads as corporals in essence. Makes a sort of sense since they're Raptors. It's not bad just not as... 'clean' I guess you can say. But the flexibility is nice.
I'm working on a homebrew chapter, which has 8 companies, each of which have a bit over 100 space marines, and at least 1000 mortal infantry, who are all failed neophytes. The number of mortal infantry keeps increasing, and the standards for recruiting neophytes keep dropping...
Also, they use both primaris and firstborn gene seed, in order to make good their very high casualty rate since the turn of the millennium.
Mmmmm, lovely lore about psychopaths, cosey
Hey, they aren't just psychopaths; they are fanatically xenophobic too.
Alright Ian, I get it. I'll start a space marine army.
Now that 10th company is doing double duty for intel and recruitment (instead of just adding another independent reserve company for reconnaissance), their captains must be swamped with paperwork.
No its easy. They can always only ever spare 3 men.
I'd like to point out that the Battlefield Role of Infernus Marines (flamer dudes from the 10th ed starter box) is a up in the air, kind of. See, the 10th edition codex lists them as Close-Support, but pretty much all the actual models from the promotional material and webstore have them marked as Fire Support. It's not that big a difference, because at the end of the day, both Battlefield Roles would still have them shooting flamers, but it is mildly interesting. Are they really so close-up to the enemy that they should be filed under Close-Support? Or as they don't primarily want to get into absolute point-blank range, but instead shoot their ranged weapons, does that make them Fire Support? Regardless of how little range their ranged weapons have?
In the end, I decided mine would be Fire Support for the Dreaming Knights chapter.
Plus, you know, maybe it's just too easy for our brains to link fire-throwing flamethrowers with fire support.
Luckily, chapters can deviate in any way they like.
Hey Ian, can you do a few videos on the organization of the various Legions?
Legions are gone
@JoshuaKevinPerry lol, no, really? Gosh I had no idea 😆
Can you do a video like this but for the Guard?
Let's have a little fun here, this is a (very) rough outline i'm working for a homebrew of mine. Here goes(assuming the attitude and voice of a rough, no-nonsense slav for extra amusement) - (slams fist on table) throw away that codex, good only for firewood or toilet paper(hold on, keep the captain additional roles)(tears a few pages, throws the rest away). Here in(chapter), we do it the slav way. If we are limited to 1000, we do like this - 3 times 300 brothers(a tri-company or division), one for tactical, one for assault, one for devastator. Remaining 100 we divide into 2 times 50 brothers(one for techmarine(we call them technomancer), one for medic(we call the biomancer). Where librarian and chaplain? Easy, those two are divided between techno- and biomancers(since we don't have any psykers(geneseed doesn't allow), tho we can draw upon the energies of the universe itself(including the warp, with extra danger if using it) to achieve the same thing, a la cryptek). Now, we also get 2(or 3, if -mancer) of 8 specializations/trainings(tactical gets marksman(range) and cqc(melee), assault gets warmachine(jumppacks and vehicles of all kinds) and cqc, devastator gets marksman and stealth(camo cloak/stealth field generator). You want more stuff - report to master of recruits for relevant training(field-repair, first-aid, spirit-break(hacking) and demolition(special explosives) are the remaining 4). Get all 8, get specialist title, access to whatever stuff you want plus right to use terminator armor when situation calls for it. Each company(of 100 strong) has captain and 2 lieutenants(1st leads the command squad, second leads 5th squad, both squads are specialist veteran). Command squads also field-test any new equipment made or developed by technonancers and give feedback for improvements. Each tri company is led by a chapter commander (captains rotate to be his second on regular basis). Both commander and captains are all specialists/veterans. Techno- and biomancers have following ranks - initiate, adept and master(depending on their seniority/power), with grand-master/archon being the highest rank equal to the chapter commander. Since there's no sole chapter master, said chapter commanders form the chapter council (akin to iron hands in a way). Company captains and lieutenants are also part of the council(since they spend the most times with their brothers and know them the best).
For missions, whoever wishes can volonteur their company/individual squads, and requisitions whatever else they might need(including available ships).
If we're talking over 1000, up the number to ten thousand fists(or 5000), divided to 1000 tactical, 1000 assault, 1000 devastator, 1000 technomancer and 1000 biomancer brothers(use above organization to divide them all evenly)(drops the rough no-nonsense slav act). Uh, that was a doozy. Any suggestions for improvement, as i said, it's a very rough outline?
Edit to add: who's the wiseguy crossing my (admittedly long) text? All of it is important(slavic cursing).
I just finished reading devastation of baal - so can they go over the 1000 now?
Considering galactic scale of Warhammer 40K and even planetary assaults as typical war in this setting, 1000 wariors, even marines is ridiculously low number to be battle worthy force. Chapter should be 5-10k strong, hundreds of tanks, dreadnoughts and so on.
Well Marines aren't supposed to do planetary assault by themselves, or any kind of grand conflict really. They're specialists who does pivotal actions that normal soldiers can't do.
Some GW writers hasn't got that memo though😁
I'd suspect that "true" size of Codex compliant chapter is somewhere between 1500-2000 marines once you include all the specialists roles. That said Space Marines are elite of the elite so 1000 is far more powerful then people tend to think.
ive never been convinced that they actually keep their numbers down to 1,000 like that seems so small and cant include the specialists, leadership or scout company imo for the logistics to make any sense at least. Especially for (ironically) the ultramarines. there seem to be SO many of them. So it’s like 1,000 mainline marines +everyone else
Indeed, replacement rates would have to be very fast to keep up with the casualty rate.
Yeah, a codex compliant chapter has always been over 1000 space marines at full strength and it's explicit that every chapter master is trying to squeeze as many marines as they can into the margins.
The Codex says what *should* be.
But the Imperium do be a most labyrinthically byzantine place, so what actually *is*... Eeeeeeh, not necessarily the same
@@talscorner3696 I love how, in the lore, the Imperium doesn't even know what year it is; and that it changes from place to place. And, of course, "Time moves strangely in the Warp."
@@euansmith3699 indeed!
Are you sure Infernus Marines are Close Support? Lexicanum has them listed under Fire Support…
Hang on. His plan to fight a bigger threat than ever is to make Legions weaker despite having living Primarchs.
At the end of the crusade most of the big alien threats in the galaxy are gone (Ullanor Orks, Rangda) and after the heresy the Traitor legions are broken, severely understrength and fractured into warbands.
Can totally see the sense in 'split our forces into a web of defences across the galaxy' rather than 'nine massive armies that crusade to nine places'
GUILLIMAN APPROVES THIS MESSAGE
I'll start called my chapter standedbearer and company standardbearers ancients if I (for some reason) start an Ultramarine army. And even then, only for that army.
They're organized according to the Codex with no deviation.
I definitely haven't watched this video 100 times
I APPROVE THIS MESSAGE
Assaults, Devastators and Tacticals make more sense than whatever Primaris are these days.
Marines were originally fairly generalist with support from special weapons. Now they feel more like aspect warriors, 5 guys with the same gun who do something highly specific.
I wonder what the impact on stock control is for shops selling 40k; with extra boxes of minis covering similar roles.
According to the Deathwatch Core Rulebook, a Codex Astartes only weighs half a kilogram. I own heavier and larger novels when this
You probably need transhuman eyes to read the teeny-tiny text.
@@euansmith3699 very likely
If I recall, that item is a curated version for ease of carrying
I'm doing my part to please Algo
If someone were to homebrew a chapter named "Arbitors of Ian", what would be the best color scheme?
Asking for a friend...
Yellow and black chevrons and pink weathering all over!
This is what 40k fans consider "fun".
Upturned V shape... its called a chevron Ian
OH YEAH!
Black Templars laugh at the codex 😂
Not a fan of the "Indomitus" changes. From squads of 10 with a Sergeant. Now squads of 3 or 5 with Sergeants. So it goes from 11 sergeants per company to 20-30 sergeants 😂
You did not mention the sons of Russ at all
Nah, but I put a big picture of them up whenever I say 'some people ignore all this'!
Because they don't care about the Book of Smurfs xD
Always intended as *constructive* feedback (and really enjoy your vids): but _"Victualler"_ is pronounced more like 'vittler'. (Think 'littler' or bigger than)
(I do know you like to employ _diverse_ pronunciations, also that things can change in the course of 39000 years...)
comment for the comment god!
Yum yum love me some fictional logistics 😋😋😋
Ive an unrelated question; is toilet paper considered an essential war production, whitin imperium, due to its existance making huge diference for how much power nurgle gets from materium, or does imperium not provide toilet paper, as they want to keep existance of chaos as Secret as possible to regular citicen and enforced law to use toilet paper, would raise questions that would inevetably bring nurgle into public consiosness and increese his cult precence, or is toilet paper and its production mechanics kept secret, whitin cells beneth imperial palace, for when similar way to destroy other chaos gods is discovered, so they can be wiped out whitin week?
holy bidets
@@SmokesKwazukii Yeah sometimes questioning simple things never mentioned in 40k, can lead you down a rabbit hole.
look up what Space marines does with their excrement 😆
This guy doesn't know how to use the shells 😂
Screw the codex and screw Robotue Guileman 😂
Very poorly.
GW have no sense of scale whatsoever. 1k fighting marines per a chapter is a laughably low number on a galactic scale. They should have it either keep it very vague or multiply it by a factor of hundred at least.
I'm quite fond of the idea that the numbers actually are accurate, and that the Imperium is running on empty, it's just that we're never shown this 'cos most lore is (to a greater or lesser degree) Imperial propaganda.
The Codex is a political tool to ensure that the Heresy doesn't happen again by diluting super soldier concentrations (the same super soldiers who made a mess last time).
Being the best fighting force the Imperium has ever seen was not the main goal xD
And, yes, the Imperium *is* running on empty ever since
it is laughably low, that's the point.
Only having up to and around 1000 marines in a whole chapter always felt like far too few, and one of those scale things that 40k kinda struggles with sometimes. That’s why all the marines in my chapter are in one big gay polyamorous relationship with each other
Major campaigns always features multiple Chapters, even dozens. For protecting a relatively small area of space from intermittent, relatively small threats, 1000 Marines is plenty.
But thumbs up for the Marines Polyamorous though. Nice chapter name 😂
my headcanon is that it’s usually like 1,000 mainline marines and then everyone else too. Like the apothecary/techmarines/pilots/dreadnoughts and chapter leadership not being counted in that number. Same with the Scouts and in some cases the reserves too. in many chapters i kinda doubt the veterans are counted either (dark angels for example) which i guess is kinda what the primaris organization is saying. but idk im saying they had like roughly 1000 nonspecialists deployed and probably a ton more in reserve and as specialists/leadership/veterans and vehicle crew etc. idk im kinda repeating myself but ive always assumed that even in the Ultramarines that 1000 was actually far far more it you counted them
Keeping the tradition alive of making your dolls kiss i see
LOL
space marine bikes are so corny
The hat in your store…. In poor taste.
Black Templars laugh at the codex 😂