There used to be a channel named “know before you go” which gave insight on Colorado ski resorts through trail maps. He stopped making TH-cam videos a long time ago. Thanks for taking up the mantle in this genre because your videos are great! Keep up the good work!
Know Before You Go, previously known as Ski Between the Lines, was my inspiration to start. We intended to collab on the Crested Butte Insider's Guide, but the man behind the channel had some professional things get in the way of progressing his channel, and it just kind of petered out from there.
The master plan does a good job of addressing the shortfalls of the current resort footprint. Replacing Pony Express & Iron Horse + The Vasquez Ridge expansion will be game changers. The only thing that I would change would be to extend the existing gondola to either lunch rock or the top of new Vasquez Ridge expansion, with Vasquez being the more valuable imo. This new area will take probably 3 or 4 lifts to access, making it difficult to access and lap effectively.
Srg, great analysis. I've read the plan, but your summation and perspective were fantastic. If wp/Alterra are going to make wp more of a higher caliber destination resort w more cruiser blues (Ala snowmass big burn) they'll need to up their game wrt to the existing base area which is shameful. Scrape balcony house and west portal, etc. It's a complex real estate issue for the resort though. Also, it's in the towns interest to partially fund (public / private venture) the town gondola. It'll certainly pull more people into wp town vs (like now) never stopping in town, taking a right out of wp heading straight to Denver. My understanding is that most if not all of this expansion vision is already approved by the forest service. Not it's just a matter of $. Hopefully shifting some funds away from Steamboat into WP for the future.
a t bar that lets off right above the alphabet chutes is a horrible idea. part of what makes the cirque great currently is that it's never open and you have to travel at a minimum of 20 minutes for one run. I know several people who have no idea that it even exists primarily because there's no lift that leads to it.
I’ve been on a master plan kick recently. Always excited for new terrain and Vasquez mtn could be interesting. Loveland’s plan might be my favorite so far, with a potential new lift above 8 and access to the back side of that east ridge via snowcat. Apparently snow piles up there and it’s within their boundary which ends at the creek along the bottom.
As a former liftie (started winter 1996), it's kinda cool to see some of this possibly going forward. Much of this and the Town Gondola has been part of the Master Plan since Groswold was at the helm in the 1980s. I'm surprised the Looking Glass removal isn't more controversial - - the Pony is very likely to happen - maybe sooner than you think. The Oly is not as old as you might think so would be surprised to see much change there anytime soon - maybe some addition to get out of the Oly hole (looking glass) make sense but not replacement.
One thing to note about replacements for the older HSQs (and Olympia in particular). Many ski resorts don't include simple like-for-like capacity or reliability upgrades to existing high-speed lifts. One good example is how Whistler Blackcomb has approached things under Vail ownership. The reason, I think, is that from a corporate planning or regulatory standpoint, the review process simply doesn't need to be as rigorous because the benefits and downsides are much more easy to understand. Expect a lot of the 1990s HSQs to get replaced in the next 20 years. Anyways, This is a really good rundown, and I liked your commentary on the potential changes. I know that you said that you're busy, but I'd love to see you make a series out of these master plan reviews.
Great video of the WP Resort Master plan! I have not seen any real updates on the plan since the master was released in '22. Are there any timelines available?
Nope, nothing yet. I fear that with Deer Valley's massive expansion taking all of Alterra's funding, we may not see a big WP project for a couple years 😭
Worked at WP 2013 and saw these draft master plans but dont recall the cooper creek build out, just talk of a town gondola, Vasquez split lift and easier cirque access. Goes to show how much time, studying how people move around the mountain and investment go into these expansions.
Until last year, WP was hidden. now it is very overrun. This plan seems great to spread out people and carry more people. hope the cirque tow wont happen, as it would run the whole point of the cirque. Also hope looking glass stays. Very informative video, thanks!
One problem I have with Winter Park is them refusing to put footrests on their new lifts. Also I would like to see a replacement for Eagle Wind, that lift is annoyingly slow and it has to be put up with to lap a lot of the runs off of there.
@@SRGSkiing Well either way, that old triple chair can't be that fast and it is more aggressive for the loading and unloading than newer fixed grip quads.
Well the idea is that it's supposed to be difficult, to discourage lower-level skiers from heading there. Look, all of this information about why lifts are the way they are I've gotten from actual ski resort employees (Steamboat Lift Ops Director, Arapahoe Basin COO, etc). I understand your concerns, but there's just higher concerns for resorts right now.
Sgr, great analysis. I've read the plan, but your summation and perspective were fantastic. If wp/Alterra are going to make wp more of a higher caliber destination resort w more cruiser blues (Ala snowmass big burn) they'll need to up their game wrt to the existing base area which is shameful. Scrape balcony house and west portal, etc. It's a complex real estate issue for the resort though. Also, it's in the towns interest to partially fund (public / private venture) the town gondola. It'll certainly pull more people into wp town vs (like now) never stopping in town, taking a right out of wp heading straight to Denver. My understanding is that most if not all of this expansion vision is already approved by the forest service. Not it's just a matter of $. Hopefully shifting some funds away from Steamboat into WP for the future.
Srg, great analysis. I've read the plan, but your summation and perspective were fantastic. If wp/Alterra are going to make wp more of a higher caliber destination resort w more cruiser blues (Ala snowmass big burn) they'll need to up their game wrt to the existing base area which is shameful. Scrape balcony house and west portal, etc. It's a complex real estate issue for the resort though. Also, it's in the towns interest to partially fund (public / private venture) the town gondola. It'll certainly pull more people into wp town vs (like now) never stopping in town, taking a right out of wp heading straight to Denver. My understanding is that most if not all of this expansion vision is already approved by the forest service. Now it's just a matter of $. Hopefully shifting some funds away from Steamboat into WP for the future.
There used to be a channel named “know before you go” which gave insight on Colorado ski resorts through trail maps. He stopped making TH-cam videos a long time ago. Thanks for taking up the mantle in this genre because your videos are great! Keep up the good work!
Know Before You Go, previously known as Ski Between the Lines, was my inspiration to start. We intended to collab on the Crested Butte Insider's Guide, but the man behind the channel had some professional things get in the way of progressing his channel, and it just kind of petered out from there.
The master plan does a good job of addressing the shortfalls of the current resort footprint. Replacing Pony Express & Iron Horse + The Vasquez Ridge expansion will be game changers. The only thing that I would change would be to extend the existing gondola to either lunch rock or the top of new Vasquez Ridge expansion, with Vasquez being the more valuable imo. This new area will take probably 3 or 4 lifts to access, making it difficult to access and lap effectively.
Srg, great analysis. I've read the plan, but your summation and perspective were fantastic. If wp/Alterra are going to make wp more of a higher caliber destination resort w more cruiser blues (Ala snowmass big burn) they'll need to up their game wrt to the existing base area which is shameful. Scrape balcony house and west portal, etc. It's a complex real estate issue for the resort though.
Also, it's in the towns interest to partially fund (public / private venture) the town gondola. It'll certainly pull more people into wp town vs (like now) never stopping in town, taking a right out of wp heading straight to Denver.
My understanding is that most if not all of this expansion vision is already approved by the forest service. Not it's just a matter of $. Hopefully shifting some funds away from Steamboat into WP for the future.
a t bar that lets off right above the alphabet chutes is a horrible idea. part of what makes the cirque great currently is that it's never open and you have to travel at a minimum of 20 minutes for one run. I know several people who have no idea that it even exists primarily because there's no lift that leads to it.
Fully agreed!
agreed, takes around 40 minutes to lap if you are quick and the snow stays good
I’ve been on a master plan kick recently. Always excited for new terrain and Vasquez mtn could be interesting. Loveland’s plan might be my favorite so far, with a potential new lift above 8 and access to the back side of that east ridge via snowcat. Apparently snow piles up there and it’s within their boundary which ends at the creek along the bottom.
Yeah, lift 10 has been hyped for like over a decade now, so I'm not sure how confident I am that it'll actually happen. But I'm all for it if it does
@@SRGSkiing that’s fair, but Loveland is opening up that gulch to snowcat tours this year so I’ll keep hoping and my fingers crossed :)
As a former liftie (started winter 1996), it's kinda cool to see some of this possibly going forward. Much of this and the Town Gondola has been part of the Master Plan since Groswold was at the helm in the 1980s. I'm surprised the Looking Glass removal isn't more controversial - - the Pony is very likely to happen - maybe sooner than you think. The Oly is not as old as you might think so would be surprised to see much change there anytime soon - maybe some addition to get out of the Oly hole (looking glass) make sense but not replacement.
I love that chairlift--it's my escape when Olympia is busy--but as with all good things, it must eventually come to an end
One thing to note about replacements for the older HSQs (and Olympia in particular). Many ski resorts don't include simple like-for-like capacity or reliability upgrades to existing high-speed lifts. One good example is how Whistler Blackcomb has approached things under Vail ownership. The reason, I think, is that from a corporate planning or regulatory standpoint, the review process simply doesn't need to be as rigorous because the benefits and downsides are much more easy to understand. Expect a lot of the 1990s HSQs to get replaced in the next 20 years.
Anyways, This is a really good rundown, and I liked your commentary on the potential changes. I know that you said that you're busy, but I'd love to see you make a series out of these master plan reviews.
Great video of the WP Resort Master plan! I have not seen any real updates on the plan since the master was released in '22. Are there any timelines available?
Nope, nothing yet. I fear that with Deer Valley's massive expansion taking all of Alterra's funding, we may not see a big WP project for a couple years 😭
Great insight on one of the Colorado resorts with the brightest future. Love the new into btw, perfect length!
Worked at WP 2013 and saw these draft master plans but dont recall the cooper creek build out, just talk of a town gondola, Vasquez split lift and easier cirque access. Goes to show how much time, studying how people move around the mountain and investment go into these expansions.
All fun and games until they talk about removing Looking Glass. Rip to the legend
Until last year, WP was hidden. now it is very overrun. This plan seems great to spread out people and carry more people. hope the cirque tow wont happen, as it would run the whole point of the cirque. Also hope looking glass stays. Very informative video, thanks!
One problem I have with Winter Park is them refusing to put footrests on their new lifts. Also I would like to see a replacement for Eagle Wind, that lift is annoyingly slow and it has to be put up with to lap a lot of the runs off of there.
Nah man, I want Eagle Wind left as-is before we get get a bunch of intermediate skiers side-slipping down Thunderbird
@@SRGSkiing Well maybe replace it with a fixed grip quad with footrests so it is at least a little faster and easier to put up with.
Per government regulation, fixed-grip quads are permitted a maximum speed that is slower than the permitted maximum speed of a fixed-grip triple
@@SRGSkiing Well either way, that old triple chair can't be that fast and it is more aggressive for the loading and unloading than newer fixed grip quads.
Well the idea is that it's supposed to be difficult, to discourage lower-level skiers from heading there. Look, all of this information about why lifts are the way they are I've gotten from actual ski resort employees (Steamboat Lift Ops Director, Arapahoe Basin COO, etc). I understand your concerns, but there's just higher concerns for resorts right now.
PS, have you considered some form of collaboration with the Open Snow weather crew? Seems like a complimentary relationship
I have not--but that's a really good idea. I'll have to investigate that
I live in Winter Park thank you for the insight and awesome video
Can you do a review of Steamboat's expansion?
Got a super busy schedule this year, but I may be able to squeeze it in.
Sgr, great analysis. I've read the plan, but your summation and perspective were fantastic. If wp/Alterra are going to make wp more of a higher caliber destination resort w more cruiser blues (Ala snowmass big burn) they'll need to up their game wrt to the existing base area which is shameful. Scrape balcony house and west portal, etc. It's a complex real estate issue for the resort though.
Also, it's in the towns interest to partially fund (public / private venture) the town gondola. It'll certainly pull more people into wp town vs (like now) never stopping in town, taking a right out of wp heading straight to Denver.
My understanding is that most if not all of this expansion vision is already approved by the forest service. Not it's just a matter of $. Hopefully shifting some funds away from Steamboat into WP for the future.
Arrow and challenger should be both a high speed 4
Agreed on Challenger. Not convinced on Arrow, given that Gemini is right there and never utilized.
Well done!
They could add a lot more free parking
I envision a garage at the Vintage Hotel
Those are my pictures of the helicopter on fly day haha
Yeah, I took those off the slideshow but I wasn't sure who to attribute. I hope it's alright that I used them
Srg, great analysis. I've read the plan, but your summation and perspective were fantastic. If wp/Alterra are going to make wp more of a higher caliber destination resort w more cruiser blues (Ala snowmass big burn) they'll need to up their game wrt to the existing base area which is shameful. Scrape balcony house and west portal, etc. It's a complex real estate issue for the resort though.
Also, it's in the towns interest to partially fund (public / private venture) the town gondola. It'll certainly pull more people into wp town vs (like now) never stopping in town, taking a right out of wp heading straight to Denver.
My understanding is that most if not all of this expansion vision is already approved by the forest service. Now it's just a matter of $. Hopefully shifting some funds away from Steamboat into WP for the future.