I have a 1970 Dodge Charger 500 with factory 383 4 speed I bought in 1996 for 4,000.00 also found the build sheet on the back of the rear seat, Now all these years later I just drive it around and enjoy it knowing there is no way I could ever afford to buy another one. Great Video, Thanks
I grew up in the seventies and these iconic vehicles are part of our history too, but the issue I have with this modern car era is most of the guys I knew built their own cars and we didn’t have the antique police either.
@@samgentile7494 I was born in 79 and I like these cars I've had plenty of old cars and trucks but these rich idiots are the ones that need to get out of the hobby
Nawww think the bubble is about to pop. These flippers & speculators have ruined the hobby. And it's starting to feel like the housing crash of 2008, all over again....
All collectables are going to drop in price as baby boomers die off and there possessions flood the markets with very few buyers that are interested in collecting or can afford to buy them.
It's always amusing for me to observe the "market" on these cars. I'm in the fairly unique position of simply not giving a fluck what my '68 GTX is worth. I've been a Mopar guy for almost the entirety of my 60+ years on the planet. My current '68 was a total rescue project that I've brought back from the grave - as I've been brought back as well (6x cancer survivor, 3x flatlined myself), I've worked on the car for distraction and to keep engaged in something as I recovered/healed. It survives as a nice driver now because I survived to see it through - and vice/versa. *That's* how I enjoy the hobby, not because of the "market" or the thrill of flipping or whatever. Y'all be safe up there, - Ed on the Ridge
Ed you are obviously pretty tuff, and I hope keep it up. I am an ivermecton addick sorta speaking,every two weeks. Had cancer many years ago and I know I have skin cancer but I'm done with doctors and a heavy smoker and I have a perfect heart still. Had some great cars and motorcycles back in the day and still have the rocket motorcycles. Getting to Mopars and classic cars. There is always an end,and the numbers will go into the toilet and those at the end of the run lose big. It has always happened, enjoy what you have and don't buy. Keep trucken
@@moparedtn I let go a 70ty super sport chevy nova,and a 71 dodge demon back in the day,and a car that would blow both of them was a 70ty Pontiac Lemans.
The handful of rich collectors out there are ruining the hobby for everyone else. No cars that sold for $3,500-$5,000 new should be worth millions of dollars today, that’s the direct effect of rich drunk guys bidding out of their ass to prove they have more money than the next guy.
@@rocketresto as long as they are still worth something there will always be people who are saving the original parts, I just don’t agree with a the multi-million dollar price tags. Don’t get me wrong I understand and love the rarity of some of the highly optioned or unusually optioned cars that were made along with having matching numbers units, but they were crudely quickly made to be fun cars that almost anybody could afford. I can see the very rarest most desirable ones being worth a couple hundred thousand at most, but I just can’t wrap my head around a car really being worth $3million, you wouldn’t even dare drive it, it’s gone from a car to just a museum piece to look at when the price is that high. Love the channel!
You are absolutely correct, billionaires with a lot of $$$ and no brains ruined the muscle car market for the rest of us. You proud mopar owners who over paid for their Mopars can suck it HaHa!
The entire classic car market has softened. Who couldn't see this coming with the price tags hitting the stratosphere? at some point it's going to change.
I rescued several mopars over the years from one place or the other......my current completed project, a 1967 Coronet 500 convertible...4BBL....what a beauty she is.....
Good for Mopar 5150 for setting a reserve and sticking to it. I've watched many of these Mecum Auctions and watched them talk people into lifting the reserve to "get the bids up" only to watch them sell the vehicle right from under reserve. If i couldn't get what I wanted, then I'll take it back home! 🤨
I'm in my 70s, and grew up working on Mopars with my grandfather and my favorite uncle long before I was old enough to legally drive. There are few things I can't do myself on cars that were on the road in that era. I've even machined parts to resurrect the transmission on a farm tractor. But most people a generation younger than I are totally ignorant of how to work on a vehicle, or what it takes to maintain or improve a vehicle from the 50s or 60s. My son learned many of these skills from me. My son-in-law, on the other hand, is fortunate that he makes a higher salary than I ever did, because he would be incapable of changing the spark plug on a lawnmower, would never want to soil his hands working on a car, and will gladly pay others to maintain the overly-complex and technologically burdened modern cars that he owns. Naturally, my nostalgic attraction is to cars of the late 60s, since that's when I reached driving age and when most of my early memories involving the freedom of car ownership were made. In a few years, if I last that long, I (and many in my age group) will lose the desire to own and maintain a vehicle for its nostalgic value. I suspect this will change the market dynamics with reduced demand.
The bottom line is the muscle car market like anything will hit bottom. The guys who chase these cars for the most part are boomers. They make up most of the muscle car market. Over the next decade, they will start getting old, passing away, and selling off their collection...Most kids coming up now don't have the hands-on skill or desire to work on old stuff. They also don't have an emotional attachment to it either. Gen X will pick some up but not enough to sustain what has been going on.Gen X didn't make the money the boomers did either.The prices can't sustain. It happened with the Model T and Model A guys...most of them are gone. You can get a really nice example for not a lot of money. Its the same thing with the 40s and 50s cars. I remember in the late 90s when a Tri-five Chevy was ALL the money. Those are starting to come down everywhere and you can get a real nice 40s street rod for decent money. I was looking for a chopped 1950 Mercury Monterey and was shocked at how much those cars have come down. They used to be untouchable for me. I am curious to see just how soft the muscle car market gets over time as there are a ton of them out there
I've had a bunch of twenty something young men tell me there are no old cars they can get their hands on. I told them in just a few years you'll have your pick, just have patience. None of the folks that buy these auction cars know diddly about how to fix and maintain them that's how I make a living. I told one man if you think a Roadrunner is worth 50-70 thousand the engine rebuild has to be worth $10,000. They love to see values go up but don't understand that the companies that supply parts for upkeep are also watching.
Agree 💯 The majority of ppl who attend car shows I go to are 70+. I'm a late boomer at 65 and I'm one of the younger attendees. Things are going to look drastically different in 5-10 yrs as the boomers age out (assuming we can still drive ICE cars in 10 yrs). Another car that's hit the skids are the baby Tbirds. Those were $50K + cars all day long. Now you can buy a nice one for $25-30K.
@@terrylessmann2274 100% correct. When I go to a car show the #1 thing i see besides small block Chevys in all the Fords, is white-haired people...I actually work with a woman who has one of those Tbirds and a year or so ago she was telling me that its worth about half of what they paid for it....funny you mention that...Its weird to think that the classic car market could become a novelty thing in the future. It could be a good thing though as the pricing got way out of hand
Your 100% right 30 to 40 years ago was a big market for agricultural toys. My dad and uncle had a huge collections. Went to a show a couple of weeks ago and the prices on good pieces have dropped to junk prices from 40 years ago. How times have changed.
There was a '71 'Cuda convertible six pack at the Nats that sold for $650K. The positive aspect of these cars going up in value is that now they are saving everything because it's worth it. Too many are lost because no one thought they were worth saving.
Same year- 71 Hemi Challenger with some accent paint. Orange! White interior was available for 1700. About double the cost of a decent 383 Challenger RT.
Back in the mid 80s real cool muscle cars were all over the place, usually sitting in people's yards with the hood up. My neighbor had six or eight roadrunners, he had a 71 with a 444 speed white on black, said he'd sell it to me for 550 bucks, I didn't have the money my dad said it was too much. Another guy had this 1970 Coronet RT, had the real cool scoops on the side and the hood, was pretty beat up and ratted out already, the exhaust was falling off and the guy would still drive it all over town it was loud as hell he was this Old Hippie looking guy. I asked him what he wanted for it he said he'd sell it for $1200, all I owned was a bicycle at the time.
That was way too much money in 1978 for a superbird even in Canada we bought them wings running and driving for under two grand all day until the late 80s
Thank you. The enthusiast market is still there. I recently bought a, 1973 factory 440/ Auto Dodge Charger. U-code. Non-numbers matching. It does have a 1970 440 with a six pak. Its not pretty, however, its a running,driving, stopping car. And it was within a working mans budget.
I was watching Dallas Mecum auction last month. They had a 1975 Z28 come across the block. I found the add, messaged them. Telling them the car is bs. There was no Z28 made in 1975. Guess their fact checkers were off that day. You can’t trust anyone when they are selling you a car.
this reminds me of Racehorse Haynes describing his defense if someone says his dog bit them. 1) My dog doesn’t bite. 2) I don’t believe you were bitten. 3) My dog was locked up that night. 4) I don’t have a dog. So, how does that apply here? There was no 2024 Dallas Barrett Jackson auction.
@@drm9979my bad it was Mecum sept 4-7, 2024. I will correct it. I have screenshot of the “1975 Z28”. Since gm didn’t make the Z28 from 1975-1976 it just screams fake. Sorry it’s an issue since I know second gen Camaros.
I'm glad the collector car market is in the tank and I hope it stays there and all these rich idiots go back to collecting paintings or whatever it was they were doing before they started messing with cars these cars were made for Blue collar Americans not these auction azzholes
Agreed they kind of ruined the hobby with big spending and took the fun out of it for me. As a classic 4x4 guy, the early Bronco scene is an example of big spending ruining what was a nice vehicle to fix up a bit and go off-roading. Now it's an expensive thing to be seen in.
@bigworldparty I know exactly what you're talking about I mess with all kinds of old cars and trucks I lucked out last week and picked up a fairly decent 71 Monte Carlo for 500 bucks and I'm not even a Chevy guy but oh well it is what it is but it's better than nothing
Awesome video Tom. Thank you very much. I absolutely love the looks of the white 69 charger @ 15:40. I didn't realize just how rare coronet R/T convertibles were either so I learned something too
They just don’t make many R/T’s. Too much internal competition. 70 coroners didn’t sell well (polarizing front end), charger R/T MUCH better looking car, Challenger cannibalized sales from the coronet and the charger, most people just got a super bee, and convertibles were on the way out.
Thanks for the montage, I really appreciate that you stated the sales prices, it's so hard for me to get this kind of info. I definitely would have been a buyer on one or two of these deals but every auction I attend has stupid highreserve prices and I never play games with those kinda greedy sellers.
Quite a few years ago, I was looking for a 1970 challenger, 440-6pac, automatic, air, tilt, cruise, power windows, locks, steering, brakes, luggage rack convertible. It kept coming down in price and finally sold for just under $40,000. Which was $10,000 more than I could afford.
In the spring of '69, I was graduating via ROTC and about to be a second LT. So wanted a 340 Dart to replace my aging MGB, and found that a Charger was only a little more, so ordered a green 440 engine R/T, Torqueflight, no radio, put on some bigger "mag" wheels, and soon took it to Germany for a year. Paid $3,275 and had it three weeks later, Hemi was a $770 option. Drove it about 35K miles, and for some stupid reason sold it for a VW, to a soldier who wrecked it. It would not make one complete stop from 100 mph due to brake fade. Still miss that big green, white strip Mopar. HC, now in SC
Mecum is a place where people with big egos meet alcohol and try to outbid one another to ridiculous heights. Then the rest of the hobby assumes that their cars are worth a hell of a lot more than they are. That's why I'll stick with rat rods. I'm out of all that bs.
There's a reason why trucks and 1st Gen Broncos starter rising in popularity. All the affluent with deep pockets, put cars out of the price range of the average person. So, the average Joes started getting in to square body trucks and old SUVs......then that caught on. I can't believe basket case Broncos go for 15K plus.
In 1985 I purchased a 1978 Chevy 3/4 ton 4x4 for $4500. Last week I went and looked at a ‘78 half ton 4x4 with my neighbor, interested in a “project” with his son… every panel rusted through (Ohio) frame rusted, worn out 350/350 combo, doesn’t run…. $12k. Firm… “I know what I got” guy.
Good info. It should be pointed out the “bid goes on” cars may not have had legitimate bids from true buyers because auction rules allow the auction house to also bid.
We had a ton of mopars growing up. Had a 65 imp ss 396 in high school. 67 charger. Lots of 440 stuff. Had a 440 dart. Never thought they were anything special.
Funny how you never know what will become collectible. It’s usually the stuff nobody wants. Reason they only made 7 hemicuda converts, nobody wanted them!
I would never have believed what these cars were going to eventually bring. I had several muscle cars from the era. None were extremely rare, well the 56 Custom Royal D500...arguably a muscle car, but they all would bring way more than i could have dreamed
Same here, a few l owned were 69 Roadrunner, 65 Fury ll two door sedan black in color, 64 Belvedere 2 door hardtop and many more. I bought a nice 75 Corvette 4 speed car for less than a wore out 69 Fury lll with a 318. It's ridiculous 😒
Halo/Movie effect. I had a 67 mustang fastback in 1994. Everyone told me is was old and dumb. Then in 2000 Gone In 60 Seconds came out and at least 5 of those same people wanted to buy it. Saw the same thing happen with Plymouth GTX after Fast/Furious 8. Saw an immediate bump in 71-72 Plymouth B-body here on the east coast.
Those prices sound about right to me. Just because 1 car goes for millions gazillions, doesn't mean that every single solitary car is worth a ridiculous exponential increase. the market has leveled, the numbers are really what it worth. Sorry for the guys that paid the over inflated prices but it's like a stock, it usually goes up. But no promises.
Like all things that are collected, flooding the market drives down prices. In my business, a scarce item horde was discovered. The guy who bought it thought the huge prices would hold but when the dropped like a rock, the smart people went in and paid market price, waited 6 months or more and got much better pricing.
Mecum Kissimmee with 4K plus car’s is a crazy experience (good) way. BUT they do have a good amount of flipper junk, so buyers beware and get a pre-purchase inspection. Yes, the Superbirds at Mecum 24’ were rough, had a few Duster’s but only one was actually good. No matter your drink of choice Mopar, GM or Ford the good restoration’s are not as good as cars seen 5 years ago. Seems to be a decline of purest’s “that I actually am”. I was told I am the young of the old lol …. Another great video 👍I would love to buy a 70-72 Plymouth Duster 318 survivor but hard to find yes, and not sure what a good price to be…
Non working taillight or two, doors that don't close right, that's never been anything new, even at Mecum, but lately I've noticed they've been REAL careful to not show much lower bodywork on a many cars. I know I've seen some pretty sketchy rocker panel waves over the past couple years. Were I to go after one of those rigs, especially with paying the auctioneers cut, I'd have a team going over anything I'd think of buying.
I love mopars. But when a rusty old car is $20k on market place, that’s a pass. Plenty of guys repairing body panels in their driveway and doing great jobs and saving cars and selling them for reasonable prices. Social media and videos are good for learning, imagine that.
@@rocketresto The younger generation has bigger concerns other than to waste money on 60 year old cars. 1,500 a month, OR MORE, student loan debt that will last for the next 30+ frkn years, 800 thousand dollar fixer upper homes, 3000 dollar a month just for the mortgage payment (not to mention the other costs $$$ of home ownership and dont get me started on the costs $$$$$ of just a single child) or 2500 a month payments just to rent a shoebox apartment. Classic cars are WAAAY down the list of the buried in debt and struggling low wage (7 dollar and 25 cent Federal minimum wage anyone?) or 15 buck a hour next generation. Classic cars are mostly a old, retired, boomer thing. Just look at the car shows. Old men with their cars as far as the eye can see. Barley any young 20ish family's at all.
@@jaynecobb6711lol imagine paying for college or buying a home in america, im moving to sweden and am going to bring my business there, and will never go to school, homes are.much cheaper there if you buy rural, that is what i will do...im in my 20s
The biggest issue that I've found is that the high prices on rare Mopars has driven the cost of every slant 6,4 door, grocery getter thru the roof. I bought 2 door versions (Dart 318 and Scamp slant 6) between 1998 and 2004 and paid $500 and $250 respectively. Also passed on a 69 Charger 318 in 2000 for $500. How an old beater commands a $5,000 and up price these days is beyond me.
In my teens in the eighties I still remember seeing Shelby’s and Superbirds parked out on the street. Everything is relative…I do agree that as certain age groups that lusted after certain cars pass away…that some of those cars will fall in price due to lower demand by younger buyers with not as high of an emotional attachment to them.
It isn't just the classic car market; it is EVERYTHING. Houses, boats, small planes, RVs, vintage guitars - you name it. We are in this giant bolus of injected cash liquidity via bad monetary policy along with fiscal non-discipline not just since COVID, but all the way back to 2008. The gushing of dollars to the wall street crowd has never really let up in all this time. The problem is that us ordinary working people aren't the ones receiving the ultra-low cost loans and access to easy money; the bankers and well connected are. ANYONE can be a billionaire with such access to capital with which to invest safely at much higher returns than their costs. The hard working conservative middle class trying to prepare for funding their own retirement are the ones who pay for all this through taxes, elevated good costs including used desirable stuff and through savings devaluation far beyond what is being stated (4% y over y wouldn't piss me off). On TOP of all that, us middle class folks pay for "Cap Gains" on assets sold even though true inflation cut the value of the dollar and hence real gains to a level somewhat over zero appreciation for normal assets (classic cars are not normal). I would LIKE for the classic car market to crash down to a reasonable level, but I don't see it happening. I wanna be wrong.
Hi Tom, Just wondering what the top price for HEMI Cuda convertibles has been ? It would be fun to trace the lineage of these cars because so few have been made...I remember talking with Russel Myers (Broom Hilda cartoonist) years ago when he had HEMI convertibles in all of the body styles.
The general public has run out of money and credit. This is the part where the trickle up economics are effected. Nobody can afford to spend money and the people who drive this market are seeing shrinking margins. The crash that occurred in 2008 wasn't the crash. They postponed it with taxpayer money. Now they can't postpone it anymore. And the yellow 70 six pack Roadrunner (Lot S267) must have some problems. It's been floating around for about a year advertised by some dealer.
I definitely think prices have dropped quite a bit. I was just at Barrett Jackson in Scottsdale. They sold a 69 Dodge Charger 440 4 speed car for a 110. And a mint 69 road runner convertible 383 automatic car for 65 I think That's what I went for. And I bought a 1954 350 automatic 3100 pick up for 20 grand and it's mint. Beautiful, all black and Chrome. I'll enjoy that truck for a while.
Doom spending is over. I’m currently doing a 70 chevelle restomod and someone asked me if I’m worried about the market popping on restomods. I laughed and said you’re a fool if you believe you can drop this kind of money in a car and turn a profit when it’s done. The car was never for sale. It’s my personal ride custom built for me. They can sell whatever is left after I’m done if anything.
With friends who buy/sell collectibles & exotics, here is what you all are missing. These auctions are a great place to launder illicit gains. Happens a lot more than you'd think
Mr. B. Here ! 🍩☕️👀😎👍. No am old 72 and few guys that are fans also are up there ! LOL . I agree with you on price , I have seen here north east rust bucket $6k not engine & trans ! You show cased some vehicles need work your vehicles at least price in the ball park . Thank you video very informative & interesting. 🍩☕️👀😎👍
Its simple, 5150 was asking to MUCH for the cars. AND I'm a huge MOPAR fan. Yes, he might sell more at the bigger events, that's a given. But market is going down for many reasons.🏁
No problems selling any of the cars. There is more to it than what meets the eye. Common goal with Tom, Jamie, 90% of the Mopar names out there, just keep them on the road and alive. This is all semantics.
Classic cars of any brand as well as brand new vehicles, sales have run out of gas. Prices have fallen, just the sellers don't know it. Nothing is moving.
I think the market for most muscle era MoPars has topped out, and frankly I don't see much upside. I don't disagree with your flooded market comments. Certainly product mix has impact on sale prices. I don't disagree that quality will always have a market. I see a number of factors at work. The interest in numbers matching restorations seems to be waning. So does the market for the second tier models. I'd sell any 'fuselage' era Plymouths and Dodges, if I had them. Same with pre '68, or post '71 cars. You can't argue that Tri 5 Chevies, and Baby Birds are popular, but the price has been dropping for years. Perhaps the magic of the legends of muscle has diminished, now that anyone can buy faster right off a used car lot. Besides, if these cars mean something to you, you are likely over 50, unless by chance you happened to know someone with one. Ever notice how the trade is always telling us how the underlying market is strong, even when objective reality suggests otherwise? Like many, I fear a major economic incident is imminent. Collector cars would seem to be the first 'investments ' to take a haircut. But not the only ones. Been watching collector watches drop like a rock in the last year. At the moment, fear wants to stay in cash. I'd thought of selling my everyday collector cars, or at least scale back, but I'm convinced that the market now is just poison. Between Winter up north, economic uncertainty, an unstable market, and the inability of many potential buyers to finance, I think it's time to just let the drama play out. FWIW, just the .02$ from a hobby market watcher.
I'm glad the big boys arre paying big money for them most desirable cars. It ensures that a lot of cars are getting saved and potentially we'll restored and preserved. Like Tom says it it makes the aftermarket make repop parts. The reality is many of can only dream of having the resources to have a classic and enjoy the hobby vicariously and or reminisce of when we did.
I'm not seeing a drop-off of values in the 'collectible' cars in the sub-$40k range in my market, albeit these are not the cars that draw viewers of the Mecum auctions. Though not a Mopar, I recently looked at a '67 Mustang coupe that didn't have serious rust issues and hadn't undergone any "resto-mod" foolishness that couldn't have been undone. The seller would have taken an offer in the upper 20s from me, and it sold a day or 2 after I inspected it. Though safe to drive, I would have had to invest another $15k in the car to actually restore it to something I would feel any pride in, not counting the value of my labor...and this is a car for which hundreds of similar examples are always available in the marketplace.
I was born in 1964 and grew up with 1st gen muscle and it will always be closest to my heart. Can't afford it now so I go 2nd gen, which is better, faster, and much cheaper.
Someday soon when all the old farts that like these cars pass on. The market will crash. These kids today have zero interest in these old boats. Like a game of hot potato who ever ends with it last will loose.
@@rocketresto IMO the halo cars will all end up in museums or super collections (eg Brothers) What will happen to the thousands of " normal " Mopars when the old guard dies ? My kids/grandkids have no interest...they'll be sold for whatever the estate can get for them. Moral of the story...buy these cars for enjoyment...not as an investment to pass on to the kids.
I just got my old Dodge , I work on it drive and enjoy it , improve when I can…. Don’t get caught up in the rich guy collector thing or trying to get paid flipping cars. I don’t care about numbers matching. The car shows are getting thinner, Just old people trudging around talking about the cars they had… kinda sad. My dodge is older than the most popular and desirable models,…. 1964 Dodge 440…. Modified 1974 400ci big block, Torqueflight, push button for now, drag look for the street… good looking, I drive it semi daily, I just keep on rebuilding and turns out laying under the car is very therapeutic for my old ass. Mopars keep my mind sharp.
Okay I had to turn on closed captioning to understand what Tom is saying as he listed several cars that I think, did not sale. At the end of the price , there is a consistent mumbling that closed captioning read “bid goes on”? If that is accurate, it isn’t a phrase I have heard regarding auctions.
That’s a Mecum thing they don’t say reverse not met because that’s negative, they say bid goes on so it makes it sound better than they have an after sale department trying to get people to buy them when off the block.
Thank you for this information,crazy prices wonder if our sons 1971 Chrysler 300 .440 engine with all the original build sheets will ever creep up in price not that that’s the reason he brought it we only have about a dozen of them in England, Regards Roy
Are the greens & socialists in Europe going to outlaw internal combustion driven vehicles soon? They won’t be worth much if they can’t be driven on the roads.
The entire used car mkt has hit the skids. Many of the prices on those BGO cars were probably mkt correct. Times change, timing is everything. It's not May 2022 anymore. Gotta adjust or you'll be holding on to your inventory for a long time waiting for it to recover.
The real problem is when you have people who are pricing clones and tributes for the same price as what a original would sell for which in turn drives up the price of a original plus you have very wealthy people who outbid the average car guy...
The whole thing is disgusting Collectors and scammers just ruined it all. I just have my litte collection of classic muscle cars because i love em. And i drive them. I race them. I abuse one or two of them. And i dont ever expect them to be worth a whole lot to anyone else.
Dallas was a huge Mopar 5150 collection. I think that they have their detractors and i think people just boycotted their cars. If it wasn’t them more may have sold.
I saw a new Supra in the showroom in 1993. The reasons they didn’t sell was bad marketing and being over priced. Stickered at $53,000 in 1993. These turbo supras were faster than the corvette of the day, a lot faster. The movies maybe have driven the popularity but the auctions have ruined prices. How many owners have garage cars and have sold them for cheap, only to see them get sold months later at auction for $250k.
Those things have sky rocketed. Think people don’t realize how much of an effect fast and furious has had on prices and car culture. skylines and supras are huge money now. And the most popular Mopar? A Charger which has been in all those movies.
@@rocketresto and they are cool cars without all the movie pr. Rumors in the 90’s were the Supra’s were governored. They wanted them fast but they were beating corvettes of the day. Insurance costs were also factor. But there was no media coverage of these cars when they came out. The salesman at the Dallas Toyota dealer was telling all kinds of stuff. It salesman, I’m sure some of it was exaggeration. But now looking back, the sequential turbo Supra’s were way before their time. And today we know that. I remember when Jotech in Garlland/mesquite Texas area had the first 700 plus hp Supra. That was unheard of back then. Only a few race cars and shops like Gale Banks Engineering, maybe Nelson racing or Kenny Duttweiler building twin turbo gm v6 engines were building anything with stupid hp back in the 80’s and 90’s. These cars were just awesome. That wrap around dash!!
When body shops charge $105 and hour for labor, that’s $105 and hour for each persons touching it. You can’t paint a car for $20k today, not for show car quality.
@@rocketrestoyeah if it doesn’t need a lot of metal work. If it was just paint. But to sand and sand a body to look like glass, that’s weeks of man hours.
I’m not faulting body shops that charge that price. Good work is not cheap. I do not require the SEMA show quality paint job. I get this that do, it’s just not my thing. And I’m not faulting any body shop artists that get paid. Usmc vet helicopter mech, civilian Aircraft mechanics, welders,metal fab, rail car repair, my own personal car builder. That’s what I’ve done. All skilled labor and blue collar workers and any worker all want good money for a days work. Nothing wrong with that.
i beg to differ on the trickle down effect on value. a 71 hemi cuda ragtop wasnt a million bucks in 1990 but it was still a lot.maybe 4-500k.but you could still get a 440 six pack E body for less than 20k in 1990.owner of the place i worked at bought a 70 440-6 cuda for 9k at hornet's nest in 1989,i drove it home to canton georgia.car was immaculate. i remember a purple hemi challenger ragtop selling for 400k in 1989 out of georgia. place i worked at in the 80's sold a hemi cuda to a japanese buyer and the seller gave him a AAR Cuda for free for buying the hemi cuda. crazy stuff was going on then.
Have a magazine from 1988 I think and the owner of a 71 hemicuda vert said he “laughed off” a $60k offer. That big run up in prices didn’t happen till the dot com boom in the late 90’s.
@@rocketresto the hemi challenger ragtop that sold out of gainesville ga sold for 400k in 1989.he also sold a 68 trans am but i think he got 200k for it.once people started realizing they could hide untaxed money in these cars it skyrocketed
Both French 1971 Cuda hemi ragtops, the gunmetal gray 4 speed and the white automatic one, were purchased for $125,000 each in 1996. there was a Hemmings ad for the gunmetal one I still have the ad. I didn't respond because it was in France thought it was a scam of some sort. guy from Colorado called on the ad and took a bag of cash to Paris to meet him, yes it was all legitimate. that seller told the buyer that he knew of another one in France and that's how the white one was purchased.
I am surprised that the Black1972 340 Duster column shift pulled anywhere close to the asking..... must be some truth that the original Cars are still desirable and can bring good money ? Hopefully my still all original unrestored Black 1969 Charger R/T SE can do so as well.
I got a 2013 challenger R/T with 4000 miles but my 1970 Charger R/T SE that needs totally restored is worth more. Why? Its cool that its worth a good bit but the way things are right now I can't afford to fix it. Regular mopar guys are so priced out Joe Dirt cant buy shit right now.
Tom, Maybe the condition of the cars had an influence on the price or maybe prospective bidders are finally doing their homework before bidding on MOPARS dressed up to look good with rotted frames that are bondowd then sprayed over with black paint. We all know auction house don't usually do their homework when vetting these cars...not to accuse this seller of anything of course.
@@rocketresto If The Daytona was super nice it should have went for way more money. Maybe the seller will wake up and put it in one of the bigger auction....the car deserves it.
Are Daytonas usually worth more than superbirds? Fewer production? Interesting. Were the dollar amounts you were reading the top bids for the cars? Those did seem really low and honestly much more in reach for guys like me.
Daytonas are rarer and there was more build effort put into them. When NASCAR changed the rules for the number of cars to be built, Chrysler scrambled. Hence vinyl tops on the Birds so they didn't have to do the metalwork on the roofs like the Daytonas
Daytonas get a huge premium over Superbirds. One is they are a charger and charger>road runner. They also only made 500 Daytonas vs almost 2k Superbirds, Daytonas are a lot rarer.
Lots of TA and AAR cars. Really like them, they are really one of the best balanced cars Mopar made in that era. Power vs weight vs handling vs braking, very well engineered.
@@rocketresto yes. And a buddy's father just restored a 70 T/A here on Long Island. I'll make a community post of a couple of pics of it on my channel.
A red over red T/A 4 spd 14k miles survivor for 120k would have been a good buy for market. I mean how many red red 4 spd T/A's are there? Restored one would be 100k easy.
@@rocketresto There were some nice cars there, however I am spoiled one of my customers had a orange over white 70 hemi 4 spd with 19k miles - sold it and a 69 RS/SS L78 Camaro conv for just over 700k to Evan Metropolis
My first car in the mid 80s was a stock unmolested 70 cougar XR7 with a 351 I paid 1600.00 for it now that car is selling for 50 to 80 k and the performance models are going for 6 figures its ridiculous
I’ve lived down the street from a great guy that has collected cars for years. He’s 79 now and is unable to really enjoy his collection anymore so he began to sell them off. Most of his friends that I know are kind of going through the same thing. The boomer generation is by far the largest group of people and us Gen Xers just don’t make up a big enough group of buyers. Millennials, to me anyway, just don’t seem as interested in late 60’s and early 70’s cars as us older people.
Been helping with a lot of estates around here. The muscle car stuff will always bring money, it’s the coronet 500’s and sport satellites that will get hurt the most value wise.
Why are the younger generations not intrested in old cars you ask? Boomers are so frkn self centered it is just pathetic. Let me point out the reality that you don't seem to get from your privileged boomer pedestal. That is because millennials are frkn broke guy, thanks to you boomers. Their money is going to other things. Restore or try to maintain a 65 year old, or older, car? Really?!?! With what disposable money? Here, take for example 1500 A MONTH OR MORE STUDENT LOAN DEBT PAYMENTS, that will last 30+ YEARS or well into their 50s (and just what do you get with that Shiney new 100 thousand dollar 4 year bachelor degree? A BEFORE TAXES job paying 45-50 thousand dollars a year), which you have to figure expences like a Home mortgage of 2000-3000 a month for a starter home, those are costs that arent factoring in the costs to run the home and don't get me started on the cost of children. 300 dollars and UP for a car payment, insurance, gas ect. which brings that cost into a thousand or more. Not to mention all of the other high costs and expenses in life. They are the poorest generation and with the poorest financial outlook in 100+ years. Classic cars aren't even on the radar for these people.
The money would be there. Online and phone bidding make it so easy to be in two places at once. The values are dropping and holding cash. Watch marketplace nationally. The prices are buyers prices.
Mopars are the slickest cars on the planet. Nobody starts out buying a 60 to 70k car initially. You buy a piece of junk and work your way up. The economy is starting to deteriorate. Don’t expect these Mopars to all sell. The entire car market, old and new, are suffering right now
A lot of people in the hobby have done that and is a great way to go. I'm too young to have been able to get Road Runner's for $1000 so have had to work harder to get what I have now.
What a car sold for previously has NO bearing on the current price. If a car sold for 100k last year and now the best offer is 50k, then that is all it's worth. Remember this on everything that's for sale; (It's Only Worth What Someone Is Willing To Pay For It)
Couldn’t disagree more with this, if we don’t have past sales data how do we price current cars? What a car has sold for in the past is the only way to figure out what they are worth now.
Stopped watching these auctions. Got got fed up with the ridiculous prices for vehicles that were built in the thousands. These 60’s and 70’s cars go fast but are trash for turning and braking. We’re seeing the end of this crazy price action as most of the buyers are today in their 70’s and 80’s. Younger folks just won’t have the interest in these crude vehicles. Just look over the guys sitting in the audience. If you think I’m wrong go see what’s happened to the prices of classics of the 20’s, 30’s, and 40’s with the WWII guys are no longer with us.
I have a 1970 Dodge Charger 500 with factory 383 4 speed I bought in 1996 for 4,000.00 also found the build sheet on the back of the rear seat, Now all these years later I just drive it around and enjoy it knowing there is no way I could ever afford to buy another one. Great Video, Thanks
Us older people who grew up with these vehicles back in the 1960's are dying off. Because of that the demand goes down.
I grew up in the seventies and these iconic vehicles are part of our history too, but the issue I have with this modern car era is most of the guys I knew built their own cars and we didn’t have the antique police either.
@@samgentile7494 I was born in 79 and I like these cars I've had plenty of old cars and trucks but these rich idiots are the ones that need to get out of the hobby
Nawww think the bubble is about to pop. These flippers & speculators have ruined the hobby. And it's starting to feel like the housing crash of 2008, all over again....
Yes. Been saying it for years.
EXACTLY.
Good .They sold a valiant for seventy thousand at mecum.f.o.a.d. with that bullshit.lol
All collectables are going to drop in price as baby boomers die off and there possessions flood the markets with very few buyers that are interested in collecting or can afford to buy them.
@@wilsonnichols7088 Most times I see a nice old muscle car drive by, its a grey haired guy that can barely walk, driving it lol
It's always amusing for me to observe the "market" on these cars. I'm in the fairly unique
position of simply not giving a fluck what my '68 GTX is worth.
I've been a Mopar guy for almost the entirety of my 60+ years on the planet.
My current '68 was a total rescue project that I've brought back from the grave - as I've
been brought back as well (6x cancer survivor, 3x flatlined myself), I've worked on the car
for distraction and to keep engaged in something as I recovered/healed.
It survives as a nice driver now because I survived to see it through - and vice/versa.
*That's* how I enjoy the hobby, not because of the "market" or the thrill of flipping or whatever.
Y'all be safe up there,
- Ed on the Ridge
God bless you brother for going through all of that.
Ed you are obviously pretty tuff, and I hope keep it up. I am an ivermecton addick sorta speaking,every two weeks. Had cancer many years ago and I know I have skin cancer but I'm done with doctors and a heavy smoker and I have a perfect heart still. Had some great cars and motorcycles back in the day and still have the rocket motorcycles. Getting to Mopars and classic cars. There is always an end,and the numbers will go into the toilet and those at the end of the run lose big. It has always happened, enjoy what you have and don't buy. Keep trucken
@@richlawson8252 Thank you. Just got to keep getting back up is all. 🙂
@@kennardjohnson7875 Yeah, I can relate to the "done with doctors" part for sure.
Give 'em hell until you can't! - Ed
@@moparedtn I let go a 70ty super sport chevy nova,and a 71 dodge demon back in the day,and a car that would blow both of them was a 70ty Pontiac Lemans.
The handful of rich collectors out there are ruining the hobby for everyone else. No cars that sold for $3,500-$5,000 new should be worth millions of dollars today, that’s the direct effect of rich drunk guys bidding out of their ass to prove they have more money than the next guy.
If these cars didn’t bring this money would be no repo parts to put them together.
That's a good point.. too bad they can't be bothered to make quality parts
@@rocketresto as long as they are still worth something there will always be people who are saving the original parts, I just don’t agree with a the multi-million dollar price tags. Don’t get me wrong I understand and love the rarity of some of the highly optioned or unusually optioned cars that were made along with having matching numbers units, but they were crudely quickly made to be fun cars that almost anybody could afford. I can see the very rarest most desirable ones being worth a couple hundred thousand at most, but I just can’t wrap my head around a car really being worth $3million, you wouldn’t even dare drive it, it’s gone from a car to just a museum piece to look at when the price is that high. Love the channel!
@@rocketrestoBullshit. If cars were affordable MORE people would be able to purchase them to restore. Demand drives supply.
You are absolutely correct, billionaires with a lot of $$$ and no brains ruined the muscle car market for the rest of us. You proud mopar owners who over paid for their Mopars can suck it HaHa!
The entire classic car market has softened. Who couldn't see this coming with the price tags hitting the stratosphere? at some point it's going to change.
The pandemic fueled market was never sustainable, this was a predictable correction.
I rescued several mopars over the years from one place or the other......my current completed project, a 1967 Coronet 500 convertible...4BBL....what a beauty she is.....
We did a 67 coronet 500 convertible, very cool car.
Good for Mopar 5150 for setting a reserve and sticking to it. I've watched many of these Mecum Auctions and watched them talk people into lifting the reserve to "get the bids up" only to watch them sell the vehicle right from under reserve. If i couldn't get what I wanted, then I'll take it back home! 🤨
They call that person the “grinder” and they are very good at it. Good thing they set reserves!
I'm in my 70s, and grew up working on Mopars with my grandfather and my favorite uncle long before I was old enough to legally drive. There are few things I can't do myself on cars that were on the road in that era. I've even machined parts to resurrect the transmission on a farm tractor. But most people a generation younger than I are totally ignorant of how to work on a vehicle, or what it takes to maintain or improve a vehicle from the 50s or 60s. My son learned many of these skills from me. My son-in-law, on the other hand, is fortunate that he makes a higher salary than I ever did, because he would be incapable of changing the spark plug on a lawnmower, would never want to soil his hands working on a car, and will gladly pay others to maintain the overly-complex and technologically burdened modern cars that he owns.
Naturally, my nostalgic attraction is to cars of the late 60s, since that's when I reached driving age and when most of my early memories involving the freedom of car ownership were made. In a few years, if I last that long, I (and many in my age group) will lose the desire to own and maintain a vehicle for its nostalgic value. I suspect this will change the market dynamics with reduced demand.
I am 57 and I know what you mean, I fix anything I can.
The bottom line is the muscle car market like anything will hit bottom. The guys who chase these cars for the most part are boomers. They make up most of the muscle car market. Over the next decade, they will start getting old, passing away, and selling off their collection...Most kids coming up now don't have the hands-on skill or desire to work on old stuff. They also don't have an emotional attachment to it either. Gen X will pick some up but not enough to sustain what has been going on.Gen X didn't make the money the boomers did either.The prices can't sustain. It happened with the Model T and Model A guys...most of them are gone. You can get a really nice example for not a lot of money. Its the same thing with the 40s and 50s cars. I remember in the late 90s when a Tri-five Chevy was ALL the money. Those are starting to come down everywhere and you can get a real nice 40s street rod for decent money. I was looking for a chopped 1950 Mercury Monterey and was shocked at how much those cars have come down. They used to be untouchable for me. I am curious to see just how soft the muscle car market gets over time as there are a ton of them out there
I've had a bunch of twenty something young men tell me there are no old cars they can get their hands on. I told them in just a few years you'll have your pick, just have patience. None of the folks that buy these auction cars know diddly about how to fix and maintain them that's how I make a living. I told one man if you think a Roadrunner is worth 50-70 thousand the engine rebuild has to be worth $10,000.
They love to see values go up but don't understand that the companies that supply parts for upkeep are also watching.
Agree 💯 The majority of ppl who attend car shows I go to are 70+. I'm a late boomer at 65 and I'm one of the younger attendees. Things are going to look drastically different in 5-10 yrs as the boomers age out (assuming we can still drive ICE cars in 10 yrs). Another car that's hit the skids are the baby Tbirds. Those were $50K + cars all day long. Now you can buy a nice one for $25-30K.
I guess it will get soft with this big next economic downturn. If people have to sell them they may take a loss, otherwise no big deal
@@terrylessmann2274 100% correct. When I go to a car show the #1 thing i see besides small block Chevys in all the Fords, is white-haired people...I actually work with a woman who has one of those Tbirds and a year or so ago she was telling me that its worth about half of what they paid for it....funny you mention that...Its weird to think that the classic car market could become a novelty thing in the future. It could be a good thing though as the pricing got way out of hand
Your 100% right 30 to 40 years ago was a big market for agricultural toys. My dad and uncle had a huge collections. Went to a show a couple of weeks ago and the prices on good pieces have dropped to junk prices from 40 years ago. How times have changed.
There was a '71 'Cuda convertible six pack at the Nats that sold for $650K. The positive aspect of these cars going up in value is that now they are saving everything because it's worth it. Too many are lost because no one thought they were worth saving.
In 1978 I saw a purple/white top Superbird at a used car lot in Moncton,New Brunswick....$3500 obo. If only I was a little older then
I bought a 69 GTO The Judge in 1978 for 3300 and I still own it. Alberta Canada. 🇨🇦 now it’s in Nevada in my garage
I mean…that was pretty close to msrp. Not bad for a “used” car to not depreciate in 8 years. Course with 10% inflation…maybe not.
Same year- 71 Hemi Challenger with some accent paint. Orange! White interior was available for 1700. About double the cost of a decent 383 Challenger RT.
Back in the mid 80s real cool muscle cars were all over the place, usually sitting in people's yards with the hood up. My neighbor had six or eight roadrunners, he had a 71 with a 444 speed white on black, said he'd sell it to me for 550 bucks, I didn't have the money my dad said it was too much. Another guy had this 1970 Coronet RT, had the real cool scoops on the side and the hood, was pretty beat up and ratted out already, the exhaust was falling off and the guy would still drive it all over town it was loud as hell he was this Old Hippie looking guy. I asked him what he wanted for it he said he'd sell it for $1200, all I owned was a bicycle at the time.
That was way too much money in 1978 for a superbird even in Canada we bought them wings running and driving for under two grand all day until the late 80s
Thank you. The enthusiast market is still there. I recently bought a, 1973 factory 440/ Auto Dodge Charger. U-code. Non-numbers matching. It does have a 1970 440 with a six pak. Its not pretty, however, its a running,driving, stopping car. And it was within a working mans budget.
Cool car, enjoy it!
I was watching Dallas Mecum auction last month. They had a 1975 Z28 come across the block.
I found the add, messaged them. Telling them the car is bs. There was no Z28 made in 1975. Guess their fact checkers were off that day. You can’t trust anyone when they are selling you a car.
True true.
They don’t care.
There was a 74 and a 77 Z28.
this reminds me of Racehorse Haynes describing his defense if someone says his dog bit them. 1) My dog doesn’t bite. 2) I don’t believe you were bitten. 3) My dog was locked up that night. 4) I don’t have a dog. So, how does that apply here? There was no 2024 Dallas Barrett Jackson auction.
@@drm9979my bad it was Mecum sept 4-7, 2024. I will correct it.
I have screenshot of the “1975 Z28”. Since gm didn’t make the Z28 from 1975-1976 it just screams fake. Sorry it’s an issue since I know second gen Camaros.
I'm glad the collector car market is in the tank and I hope it stays there and all these rich idiots go back to collecting paintings or whatever it was they were doing before they started messing with cars these cars were made for Blue collar Americans not these auction azzholes
Agreed they kind of ruined the hobby with big spending and took the fun out of it for me. As a classic 4x4 guy, the early Bronco scene is an example of big spending ruining what was a nice vehicle to fix up a bit and go off-roading. Now it's an expensive thing to be seen in.
@bigworldparty I know exactly what you're talking about I mess with all kinds of old cars and trucks I lucked out last week and picked up a fairly decent 71 Monte Carlo for 500 bucks and I'm not even a Chevy guy but oh well it is what it is but it's better than nothing
Thanks Tom! Owning both a 70 'Cuda and a 70 Challenger R/T, I appreciate your auction updates and market insight.
Thanks for watching!
I have a 70,Challenger RT 383. Been watching and I can see the asking price is lower than a few years ago.
@@silverstar4289 yeah I noticed values dipped a bit over the summer. Not sure of the reason. Cuda's seem to be holding.
These auctions are for amusement only. It's surprising how folks watch them and automatically think a 318 car is worth the same as a 440 car.
I'll settle for my little 318. Makes me happy and didn't break the bank.
@@LongIslandMopars love 318 cars just not at 440 prices...lol
@@SE-me2pt yep, I hear ya
They are very entertaining, been to Barrett multiple times now.
Awesome video Tom. Thank you very much. I absolutely love the looks of the white 69 charger @ 15:40. I didn't realize just how rare coronet R/T convertibles were either so I learned something too
They just don’t make many R/T’s. Too much internal competition. 70 coroners didn’t sell well (polarizing front end), charger R/T MUCH better looking car, Challenger cannibalized sales from the coronet and the charger, most people just got a super bee, and convertibles were on the way out.
Thanks for the montage, I really appreciate that you stated the sales prices, it's so hard for me to get this kind of info. I definitely would have been a buyer on one or two of these deals but every auction I attend has stupid highreserve prices and I never play games with those kinda greedy sellers.
I really like to see the prices so figure other people do too!
Quite a few years ago, I was looking for a 1970 challenger, 440-6pac, automatic, air, tilt, cruise, power windows, locks, steering, brakes, luggage rack convertible. It kept coming down in price and finally sold for just under $40,000. Which was $10,000 more than I could afford.
In the spring of '69, I was graduating via ROTC and about to be a second LT. So wanted a 340 Dart to replace my aging MGB, and found that a Charger was only a little more, so ordered a green 440 engine R/T, Torqueflight, no radio, put on some bigger "mag" wheels, and soon took it to Germany for a year. Paid $3,275 and had it three weeks later, Hemi was a $770 option. Drove it about 35K miles, and for some stupid reason sold it for a VW, to a soldier who wrecked it. It would not make one complete stop from 100 mph due to brake fade. Still miss that big green, white strip Mopar. HC, now in SC
Shame what happened to it. Thank you for your service!
I noticed this too. Too many Vettes not enough Mopars by far
Mecum is a place where people with big egos meet alcohol and try to outbid one another to ridiculous heights. Then the rest of the hobby assumes that their cars are worth a hell of a lot more than they are. That's why I'll stick with rat rods. I'm out of all that bs.
There's a reason why trucks and 1st Gen Broncos starter rising in popularity. All the affluent with deep pockets, put cars out of the price range of the average person. So, the average Joes started getting in to square body trucks and old SUVs......then that caught on. I can't believe basket case Broncos go for 15K plus.
In 1985 I purchased a 1978 Chevy 3/4 ton 4x4 for $4500. Last week I went and looked at a ‘78 half ton 4x4 with my neighbor, interested in a “project” with his son… every panel rusted through (Ohio) frame rusted, worn out 350/350 combo, doesn’t run…. $12k. Firm… “I know what I got” guy.
Good info. It should be pointed out the “bid goes on” cars may not have had legitimate bids from true buyers because auction rules allow the auction house to also bid.
Very true
We had a ton of mopars growing up. Had a 65 imp ss 396 in high school. 67 charger. Lots of 440 stuff. Had a 440 dart. Never thought they were anything special.
Funny how you never know what will become collectible. It’s usually the stuff nobody wants. Reason they only made 7 hemicuda converts, nobody wanted them!
I would never have believed what these cars were going to eventually bring. I had several muscle cars from the era. None were extremely rare, well the 56 Custom Royal D500...arguably a muscle car, but they all would bring way more than i could have dreamed
Prices…especially for wing cars…are insane.
Same here, a few l owned were 69 Roadrunner, 65 Fury ll two door sedan black in color, 64 Belvedere 2 door hardtop and many more.
I bought a nice 75 Corvette 4 speed car for less than a wore out 69 Fury lll with a 318.
It's ridiculous 😒
Halo/Movie effect. I had a 67 mustang fastback in 1994. Everyone told me is was old and dumb. Then in 2000 Gone In 60 Seconds came out and at least 5 of those same people wanted to buy it.
Saw the same thing happen with Plymouth GTX after Fast/Furious 8. Saw an immediate bump in 71-72 Plymouth B-body here on the east coast.
Buddy of mine has a 72 Satellite Sebring Plus and it turns a lot of heads regardless of the crappy movie.
Well gone had “something” to do with that but most of the 67 Fastback thing is Bullit and Steve McQueen.
Those prices sound about right to me. Just because 1 car goes for millions gazillions, doesn't mean that every single solitary car is worth a ridiculous exponential increase. the market has leveled, the numbers are really what it worth. Sorry for the guys that paid the over inflated prices but it's like a stock, it usually goes up. But no promises.
Like all things that are collected, flooding the market drives down prices. In my business, a scarce item horde was discovered. The guy who bought it thought the huge prices would hold but when the dropped like a rock, the smart people went in and paid market price, waited 6 months or more and got much better pricing.
Mecum Kissimmee with 4K plus car’s is a crazy experience (good) way. BUT they do have a good amount of flipper junk, so buyers beware and get a pre-purchase inspection. Yes, the Superbirds at Mecum 24’ were rough, had a few Duster’s but only one was actually good. No matter your drink of choice Mopar, GM or Ford the good restoration’s are not as good as cars seen 5 years ago. Seems to be a decline of purest’s “that I actually am”. I was told I am the young of the old lol …. Another great video 👍I would love to buy a 70-72 Plymouth Duster 318 survivor but hard to find yes, and not sure what a good price to be…
Non working taillight or two, doors that don't close right, that's never been anything new, even at Mecum, but lately I've noticed they've been REAL careful to not show much lower bodywork on a many cars. I know I've seen some pretty sketchy rocker panel waves over the past couple years. Were I to go after one of those rigs, especially with paying the auctioneers cut, I'd have a team going over anything I'd think of buying.
Maybe they should lower the reserve.
Got good money for the 72 survivor we had.
I love mopars. But when a rusty old car is $20k on market place, that’s a pass.
Plenty of guys repairing body panels in their driveway and doing great jobs and saving cars and selling them for reasonable prices. Social media and videos are good for learning, imagine that.
Getting very expensive to restore these cars properly even if doing it yourself.
Boomers are the main classic car market and they aren’t making more boomers
We are seeing the younger generation get into cars as well but it tends to be newer stuff and the 4x4’s.
@@rocketresto
The younger generation has bigger concerns other than to waste money on 60 year old cars.
1,500 a month, OR MORE, student loan debt that will last for the next 30+ frkn years, 800 thousand dollar fixer upper homes, 3000 dollar a month just for the mortgage payment (not to mention the other costs $$$ of home ownership and dont get me started on the costs $$$$$ of just a single child) or 2500 a month payments just to rent a shoebox apartment.
Classic cars are WAAAY down the list of the buried in debt and struggling low wage (7 dollar and 25 cent Federal minimum wage anyone?) or 15 buck a hour next generation.
Classic cars are mostly a old, retired, boomer thing.
Just look at the car shows.
Old men with their cars as far as the eye can see.
Barley any young 20ish family's at all.
@@jaynecobb6711lol imagine paying for college or buying a home in america, im moving to sweden and am going to bring my business there, and will never go to school, homes are.much cheaper there if you buy rural, that is what i will do...im in my 20s
The biggest issue that I've found is that the high prices on rare Mopars has driven the cost of every slant 6,4 door, grocery getter thru the roof. I bought 2 door versions (Dart 318 and Scamp slant 6) between 1998 and 2004 and paid $500 and $250 respectively. Also passed on a 69 Charger 318 in 2000 for $500. How an old beater commands a $5,000 and up price these days is beyond me.
In my teens in the eighties I still remember seeing Shelby’s and Superbirds parked out on the street. Everything is relative…I do agree that as certain age groups that lusted after certain cars pass away…that some of those cars will fall in price due to lower demand by younger buyers with not as high of an emotional attachment to them.
I got into the hobby too late for that.
It isn't just the classic car market; it is EVERYTHING. Houses, boats, small planes, RVs, vintage guitars - you name it. We are in this giant bolus of injected cash liquidity via bad monetary policy along with fiscal non-discipline not just since COVID, but all the way back to 2008. The gushing of dollars to the wall street crowd has never really let up in all this time.
The problem is that us ordinary working people aren't the ones receiving the ultra-low cost loans and access to easy money; the bankers and well connected are. ANYONE can be a billionaire with such access to capital with which to invest safely at much higher returns than their costs. The hard working conservative middle class trying to prepare for funding their own retirement are the ones who pay for all this through taxes, elevated good costs including used desirable stuff and through savings devaluation far beyond what is being stated (4% y over y wouldn't piss me off). On TOP of all that, us middle class folks pay for "Cap Gains" on assets sold even though true inflation cut the value of the dollar and hence real gains to a level somewhat over zero appreciation for normal assets (classic cars are not normal).
I would LIKE for the classic car market to crash down to a reasonable level, but I don't see it happening. I wanna be wrong.
Hi Tom, Just wondering what the top price for HEMI Cuda convertibles has been ? It would be fun to trace the lineage of these cars because so few have been made...I remember talking with Russel Myers (Broom Hilda cartoonist) years ago when he had HEMI convertibles in all of the body styles.
Think the public record is still the $3.5 million at the 2014 Mecum Seattle auction, they have sold for more privately.
The general public has run out of money and credit. This is the part where the trickle up economics are effected. Nobody can afford to spend money and the people who drive this market are seeing shrinking margins. The crash that occurred in 2008 wasn't the crash. They postponed it with taxpayer money. Now they can't postpone it anymore. And the yellow 70 six pack Roadrunner (Lot S267) must have some problems. It's been floating around for about a year advertised by some dealer.
Spot on.
nailed it
A lot of these cars get passed around.
Glad TH-cam recommended you, new sub a like.
Appreciate the sub!
Thank you Tom!
Thanks for watching!
Interesting to see this. You won't see this many bid goes on cars on the tv coverage.
They edit stuff carefully.
I definitely think prices have dropped quite a bit. I was just at Barrett Jackson in Scottsdale. They sold a 69 Dodge Charger 440 4 speed car for a 110. And a mint 69 road runner convertible 383 automatic car for 65 I think That's what I went for. And I bought a 1954 350 automatic 3100 pick up for 20 grand and it's mint. Beautiful, all black and Chrome. I'll enjoy that truck for a while.
You get ready to sell her , let me know. I'm in the market..
Always insightful! Cheers!
Thanks for watching!
I remember when a 70 Chevelle SS 454 was 3500$ and a 1970 Superbee was under 2 grand.
Doom spending is over. I’m currently doing a 70 chevelle restomod and someone asked me if I’m worried about the market popping on restomods. I laughed and said you’re a fool if you believe you can drop this kind of money in a car and turn a profit when it’s done. The car was never for sale. It’s my personal ride custom built for me. They can sell whatever is left after I’m done if anything.
With friends who buy/sell collectibles & exotics, here is what you all are missing. These auctions are a great place to launder illicit gains. Happens a lot more than you'd think
Lot of money being thrown around.
The '71 'Cuda is wicked. A real show stopper.
Mr. B. Here ! 🍩☕️👀😎👍. No am old 72 and few guys that are fans also are up there ! LOL . I agree with you on price , I have seen here north east rust bucket $6k not engine & trans ! You show cased some vehicles need work your vehicles at least price in the ball park . Thank you video very informative & interesting. 🍩☕️👀😎👍
Mr B!!!🐝
Its simple, 5150 was asking to MUCH for the cars. AND I'm a huge MOPAR fan. Yes, he might sell more at the bigger events, that's a given. But market is going down for many reasons.🏁
When I talked to them they said cars were still selling fine at the dealership so 🤷♂️
No problems selling any of the cars. There is more to it than what meets the eye. Common goal with Tom, Jamie, 90% of the Mopar names out there, just keep them on the road and alive. This is all semantics.
Great info , enjoyed the video
Even Rocky had a montage 😂
HI, Came over from DDG.
Thanks for coming over.
Classic cars of any brand as well as brand new vehicles, sales have run out of gas. Prices have fallen, just the sellers don't know it. Nothing is moving.
Top end stuff is still moving but cars with issues - non numbers matching, no fender tag etc - are taking hits right now.
I think the market for most muscle era MoPars has topped out, and frankly I don't see much upside. I don't disagree with your flooded market comments. Certainly product mix has impact on sale prices. I don't disagree that quality will always have a market. I see a number of factors at work. The interest in numbers matching restorations seems to be waning. So does the market for the second tier models. I'd sell any 'fuselage' era Plymouths and Dodges, if I had them. Same with pre '68, or post '71 cars. You can't argue that Tri 5 Chevies, and Baby Birds are popular, but the price has been dropping for years. Perhaps the magic of the legends of muscle has diminished, now that anyone can buy faster right off a used car lot. Besides, if these cars mean something to you, you are likely over 50, unless by chance you happened to know someone with one.
Ever notice how the trade is always telling us how the underlying market is strong, even when objective reality suggests otherwise? Like many, I fear a major economic incident is imminent. Collector cars would seem to be the first 'investments ' to take a haircut. But not the only ones. Been watching collector watches drop like a rock in the last year. At the moment, fear wants to stay in cash. I'd thought of selling my everyday collector cars, or at least scale back, but I'm convinced that the market now is just poison. Between Winter up north, economic uncertainty, an unstable market, and the inability of many potential buyers to finance, I think it's time to just let the drama play out. FWIW, just the .02$ from a hobby market watcher.
It's been OVERPRICED for Decades
Dusters and Demons are up baby.
A bodies are pretty hot right now.
I'm glad the big boys arre paying big money for them most desirable cars. It ensures that a lot of cars are getting saved and potentially we'll restored and preserved. Like Tom says it it makes the aftermarket make repop parts. The reality is many of can only dream of having the resources to have a classic and enjoy the hobby vicariously and or reminisce of when we did.
A lot of 68-70 chargers are getting saved that would have been scrapped 10 years ago.
The collector watch market is down 52% now 😮
Which market? We tend to follow Hagerty and while down it’s not down that much. The pandemic fueled craziness was never going to last.
I'm not seeing a drop-off of values in the 'collectible' cars in the sub-$40k range in my market, albeit these are not the cars that draw viewers of the Mecum auctions. Though not a Mopar, I recently looked at a '67 Mustang coupe that didn't have serious rust issues and hadn't undergone any "resto-mod" foolishness that couldn't have been undone. The seller would have taken an offer in the upper 20s from me, and it sold a day or 2 after I inspected it. Though safe to drive, I would have had to invest another $15k in the car to actually restore it to something I would feel any pride in, not counting the value of my labor...and this is a car for which hundreds of similar examples are always available in the marketplace.
Great video Tom, thanks.
Thanks for watching!
I was born in 1964 and grew up with 1st gen muscle and it will always be closest to my heart. Can't afford it now so I go 2nd gen, which is better, faster, and much cheaper.
Someday soon when all the old farts that like these cars pass on. The market will crash. These kids today have zero interest in these old boats. Like a game of hot potato who ever ends with it last will loose.
These cars were and always will be landmark cars, will we see a correct? Probably, but a charger and a cuda will always be worth some coin.
@@rocketresto IMO the halo cars will all end up in museums or super collections (eg Brothers)
What will happen to the thousands of " normal " Mopars when the old guard dies ?
My kids/grandkids have no interest...they'll be sold for whatever the estate can get for them.
Moral of the story...buy these cars for enjoyment...not as an investment to pass on to the kids.
I assure you - I’ll never “lose” on my ‘69 Charger R/T.
I just got my old Dodge , I work on it drive and enjoy it , improve when I can…. Don’t get caught up in the rich guy collector thing or trying to get paid flipping cars. I don’t care about numbers matching. The car shows are getting thinner,
Just old people trudging around talking about the cars they had… kinda sad. My dodge is older than the most popular and desirable models,…. 1964 Dodge 440…. Modified 1974
400ci big block, Torqueflight, push button for now, drag look for the street… good looking, I drive it semi daily, I just keep on rebuilding and turns out laying under the car is very therapeutic for my old ass. Mopars keep my mind sharp.
Thank you for the great video.
Okay I had to turn on closed captioning to understand what Tom is saying as he listed several cars that I think, did not sale. At the end of the price , there is a consistent mumbling that closed captioning read “bid goes on”? If that is accurate, it isn’t a phrase I have heard regarding auctions.
That’s a Mecum thing they don’t say reverse not met because that’s negative, they say bid goes on so it makes it sound better than they have an after sale department trying to get people to buy them when off the block.
Dude, the instant you said "montage" I started singing the same song! 🤣
Montage!
ageing out interest group, coming recession concerns. Prices are going to drop on all but the most special of vehicles, chances are on those as well.
Guess we will see
Thank you for this information,crazy prices wonder if our sons 1971 Chrysler 300 .440 engine with all the original build sheets will ever creep up in price not that that’s the reason he brought it we only have about a dozen of them in England, Regards Roy
People like 440 c bodies. Must be hard to fit on your roads!
Are the greens & socialists in Europe going to outlaw internal combustion driven vehicles soon? They won’t be worth much if they can’t be driven on the roads.
I like the junk 😂 are you going to put the 64 valiant convertible in any future videos?
The one I got in Nevada? It went down the road a few months ago, guy is building it.
They are expensive. The part that is crazy is people pay $25k for a rusty mess when you can buy a good one for 50-75k.
i got a no rust georgia car all its life 4 door dart for 5k
the price of the red daytona was less than just the buyers premium of the green hemi car.........lol
The entire used car mkt has hit the skids. Many of the prices on those BGO cars were probably mkt correct. Times change, timing is everything. It's not May 2022 anymore. Gotta adjust or you'll be holding on to your inventory for a long time waiting for it to recover.
Will see what happens in January.
The real problem is when you have people who are pricing clones and tributes for the same price as what a original would sell for which in turn drives up the price of a original plus you have very wealthy people who outbid the average car guy...
The whole thing is disgusting
Collectors and scammers just ruined it all.
I just have my litte collection of classic muscle cars because i love em. And i drive them.
I race them. I abuse one or two of them. And i dont ever expect them to be worth a whole lot to anyone else.
I think investors hesitate when the "last call" new stuff sits without buyers. People waiting things out.
People have too much money! But trucks??!!!
Trucks are going nuts right now, 6 figure first gen Broncos 🤯
Restomods don’t bring what originals bring, sorry.
even when serious builds for protouring builds cost $250k to build.
You can do it on a budget. The 392 Hemi we put in a 71 Challenger wasn’t that bad to do the work.
Dallas was a huge Mopar 5150 collection. I think that they have their detractors and i think people just boycotted their cars. If it wasn’t them more may have sold.
Don’t think people were boycotting them, just think it was too many of the same cars at a small venue.
NOTHING is worth more than willing buyers are willing to pay for it.
I saw a new Supra in the showroom in 1993. The reasons they didn’t sell was bad marketing and being over priced. Stickered at $53,000 in 1993.
These turbo supras were faster than the corvette of the day, a lot faster.
The movies maybe have driven the popularity but the auctions have ruined prices.
How many owners have garage cars and have sold them for cheap, only to see them get sold months later at auction for $250k.
Those things have sky rocketed. Think people don’t realize how much of an effect fast and furious has had on prices and car culture. skylines and supras are huge money now. And the most popular Mopar? A Charger which has been in all those movies.
I remember when the fast and furious stunt car charger couldn’t be sold and the automatic supra that Walker drove was $10,000 asking price
@@rocketresto and they are cool cars without all the movie pr. Rumors in the 90’s were the Supra’s were governored. They wanted them fast but they were beating corvettes of the day. Insurance costs were also factor.
But there was no media coverage of these cars when they came out.
The salesman at the Dallas Toyota dealer was telling all kinds of stuff. It salesman, I’m sure some of it was exaggeration. But now looking back, the sequential turbo Supra’s were way before their time. And today we know that.
I remember when Jotech in Garlland/mesquite Texas area had the first 700 plus hp Supra. That was unheard of back then. Only a few race cars and shops like Gale Banks Engineering, maybe Nelson racing or Kenny Duttweiler building twin turbo gm v6 engines were building anything with stupid hp back in the 80’s and 90’s.
These cars were just awesome. That wrap around dash!!
When body shops charge $105 and hour for labor, that’s $105 and hour for each persons touching it.
You can’t paint a car for $20k today, not for show car quality.
A good paint job is minimum $20k now
@@rocketrestoyeah if it doesn’t need a lot of metal work. If it was just paint. But to sand and sand a body to look like glass, that’s weeks of man hours.
@@rocketrestono wonder patina has become a thing. Working class couldn’t afford a $20k paint job.
I’m not faulting body shops that charge that price. Good work is not cheap. I do not require the SEMA show quality paint job. I get this that do, it’s just not my thing. And I’m not faulting any body shop artists that get paid. Usmc vet helicopter mech, civilian Aircraft mechanics, welders,metal fab, rail car repair, my own personal car builder. That’s what I’ve done. All skilled labor and blue collar workers and any worker all want good money for a days work. Nothing wrong with that.
i beg to differ on the trickle down effect on value.
a 71 hemi cuda ragtop wasnt a million bucks in 1990 but it was still a lot.maybe 4-500k.but you could still get a 440 six pack E body for less than 20k in 1990.owner of the place i worked at bought a 70 440-6 cuda for 9k at hornet's nest in 1989,i drove it home to canton georgia.car was immaculate. i remember a purple hemi challenger ragtop selling for 400k in 1989 out of georgia.
place i worked at in the 80's sold a hemi cuda to a japanese buyer and the seller gave him a AAR Cuda for free for buying the hemi cuda.
crazy stuff was going on then.
Have a magazine from 1988 I think and the owner of a 71 hemicuda vert said he “laughed off” a $60k offer. That big run up in prices didn’t happen till the dot com boom in the late 90’s.
@@rocketresto the hemi challenger ragtop that sold out of gainesville ga sold for 400k in 1989.he also sold a 68 trans am but i think he got 200k for it.once people started realizing they could hide untaxed money in these cars it skyrocketed
Both French 1971 Cuda hemi ragtops, the gunmetal gray 4 speed and the white automatic one, were purchased for $125,000 each in 1996. there was a Hemmings ad for the gunmetal one I still have the ad. I didn't respond because it was in France thought it was a scam of some sort. guy from Colorado called on the ad and took a bag of cash to Paris to meet him, yes it was all legitimate. that seller told the buyer that he knew of another one in France and that's how the white one was purchased.
@@EdBriggs-b6mgreat info Ed thanks
@@EdBriggs-b6m and now the guy wants 6.5 mill for the grey one.hilarious
Wait just one second: who are these people who aren't gonna get the "Montage" reference, and what have they been doing with their lives?!
Hope not but have to hedge…
I am surprised that the Black1972 340 Duster column shift pulled anywhere close to the asking..... must be some truth that the original Cars are still desirable and can bring good money ?
Hopefully my still all original unrestored Black 1969 Charger R/T SE can do so as well.
Survivors get huge premiums still, only original once. We got very close to ask.
I got a 2013 challenger R/T with 4000 miles but my 1970 Charger R/T SE that needs totally restored is worth more. Why? Its cool that its worth a good bit but the way things are right now I can't afford to fix it. Regular mopar guys are so priced out Joe Dirt cant buy shit right now.
They made a lot of the new challengers too, just a ton to choose from.
Bidenomics! Vote for Kamala and get more!
Is that U, Donny?
@muskyelondragon What a brain dead take on things
Tom,
Maybe the condition of the cars had an influence on the price or maybe prospective bidders are finally doing their homework before bidding on MOPARS dressed up to look good with rotted frames that are bondowd then sprayed over with black paint. We all know auction house don't usually do their homework when vetting these cars...not to accuse this seller of anything of course.
The Daytona was super nice, some of the others not so much.
@@rocketresto If The Daytona was super nice it should have went for way more money. Maybe the seller will wake up and put it in one of the bigger auction....the car deserves it.
The Superbird was the nicest wing car IMO.
Prefer the Daytona personally, love Chargers and they are quite a bit rarer.
Are Daytonas usually worth more than superbirds? Fewer production? Interesting.
Were the dollar amounts you were reading the top bids for the cars? Those did seem really low and honestly much more in reach for guys like me.
Daytonas are rarer and there was more build effort put into them. When NASCAR changed the rules for the number of cars to be built, Chrysler scrambled. Hence vinyl tops on the Birds so they didn't have to do the metalwork on the roofs like the Daytonas
Daytonas get a huge premium over Superbirds. One is they are a charger and charger>road runner. They also only made 500 Daytonas vs almost 2k Superbirds, Daytonas are a lot rarer.
people hoarding the good ones are completely missing the point of buying them in the first place
There seems to be a lot of 340 6 pak cars.
YUP! Of all the 340-6 Pack Cars Chrysler built, 150% are still on the road today.
@@omcara1😂
@@omcara1 And everyone had one.
Lots of TA and AAR cars. Really like them, they are really one of the best balanced cars Mopar made in that era. Power vs weight vs handling vs braking, very well engineered.
@@rocketresto yes. And a buddy's father just restored a 70 T/A here on Long Island. I'll make a community post of a couple of pics of it on my channel.
A red over red T/A 4 spd 14k miles survivor for 120k would have been a good buy for market. I mean how many red red 4 spd T/A's are there? Restored one would be 100k easy.
Red interior e bodies always get a premium.
@@rocketresto There were some nice cars there, however I am spoiled one of my customers had a orange over white 70 hemi 4 spd with 19k miles - sold it and a 69 RS/SS L78 Camaro conv for just over 700k to Evan Metropolis
My first car in the mid 80s was a stock unmolested 70 cougar XR7 with a 351 I paid 1600.00 for it now that car is selling for 50 to 80 k and the performance models are going for 6 figures its ridiculous
I’ve lived down the street from a great guy that has collected cars for years. He’s 79 now and is unable to really enjoy his collection anymore so he began to sell them off. Most of his friends that I know are kind of going through the same thing. The boomer generation is by far the largest group of people and us Gen Xers just don’t make up a big enough group of buyers. Millennials, to me anyway, just don’t seem as interested in late 60’s and early 70’s cars as us older people.
Been helping with a lot of estates around here. The muscle car stuff will always bring money, it’s the coronet 500’s and sport satellites that will get hurt the most value wise.
Why are the younger generations not intrested in old cars you ask?
Boomers are so frkn self centered it is just pathetic.
Let me point out the reality that you don't seem to get from your privileged boomer pedestal.
That is because millennials are frkn broke guy, thanks to you boomers.
Their money is going to other things.
Restore or try to maintain a 65 year old, or older, car?
Really?!?!
With what disposable money?
Here, take for example 1500 A MONTH OR MORE STUDENT LOAN DEBT PAYMENTS, that will last 30+ YEARS or well into their 50s (and just what do you get with that Shiney new 100 thousand dollar 4 year bachelor degree? A BEFORE TAXES job paying 45-50 thousand dollars a year), which you have to figure expences like a Home mortgage of 2000-3000 a month for a starter home, those are costs that arent factoring in the costs to run the home and don't get me started on the cost of children.
300 dollars and UP for a car payment, insurance, gas ect. which brings that cost into a thousand or more.
Not to mention all of the other high costs and expenses in life.
They are the poorest generation and with the poorest financial outlook in 100+ years.
Classic cars aren't even on the radar for these people.
The money would be there. Online and phone bidding make it so easy to be in two places at once. The values are dropping and holding cash. Watch marketplace nationally. The prices are buyers prices.
Money doesn’t go to these small regional auctions, everything would have gone 10-20% more at Kississimee.
Mopars are the slickest cars on the planet. Nobody starts out buying a 60 to 70k car initially. You buy a piece of junk and work your way up. The economy is starting to deteriorate. Don’t expect these Mopars to all sell. The entire car market, old and new, are suffering right now
A lot of people in the hobby have done that and is a great way to go. I'm too young to have been able to get Road Runner's for $1000 so have had to work harder to get what I have now.
I’ve owned many B body 383 440 and 440 6 pack cars and they drive like shit. I wish somebody would come out clean about this one day.
What a car sold for previously has NO bearing on the current price. If a car sold for 100k last year and now the best offer is 50k, then that is all it's worth. Remember this on everything that's for sale; (It's Only Worth What Someone Is Willing To Pay For It)
Couldn’t disagree more with this, if we don’t have past sales data how do we price current cars? What a car has sold for in the past is the only way to figure out what they are worth now.
You talk too much
KA-ssimee bro!LOL!
You know…kiss sounds better hahaha
People want too much for rusty classics, plus I can't come close to affording any restored Mopar.
When the cost of a high dollar resto is 6 figures the cars that are restored go up in value.
Stopped watching these auctions. Got got fed up with the ridiculous prices for vehicles that were built in the thousands. These 60’s and 70’s cars go fast but are trash for turning and braking. We’re seeing the end of this crazy price action as most of the buyers are today in their 70’s and 80’s. Younger folks just won’t have the interest in these crude vehicles. Just look over the guys sitting in the audience. If you think I’m wrong go see what’s happened to the prices of classics of the 20’s, 30’s, and 40’s with the WWII guys are no longer with us.
Lots of shenanigans going on at these auctions.