Does Mick Schumacher Deserve a Future in Formula 1?
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Mick Schumacher's future in Formula 1 appears to be in a bit of a fine balance. He hasn't set it alight at Haas, and Guenther Steiner has openly criticised Mick on numerous occasions. Will he stay on, will he maybe move to that vacant seat at Williams, or is his F1 career seriously at risk.
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No comments of red bull breach
Go for Daruvala
Haas has announced a press conference on Thursday Oct 20. That would be the perfect time to announce an American team has signed an American driver
True... very true. but Latifi shouldn't have been there in the first place
Tell me what it is first.
This reminds me of an interview Lewis had saying if he ever had a son, he would not want them to go into F1 due to the pressure of his last name. Mick is an amazing guy, but I can’t fathom the amount of pressure he’s under.
I think it only affects how people treat him. I don't think it impacts him or his performance. I've heard him talk about his dad and the Schumacher name quite a bit and it really doesn't seem to affect him.
Partly why he ran in karts under his mums surname I guess.
knowing how competitive lewis is , i just think thisd make his kid want to break his dads record even more
Is he really? I mean, more often than not I see people making excuses for him because everyone wants a Schumacher in F1 (ideally in Ferrari). Sorry, but in my view people tend to cut him some slack because of his heritage.
while I agree that having a name like Schumi puts you under pressure, I think that pressure has dissipated after seeing Mick drive for two years, no one is expecting Mick to win a race in his career anymore, let alone a championship.
If it is between him and GIO or any current F2 driver then he definetelly deserves it.
Between him and hulk is a bit harder to tell depending on what plans Haas has as a (god damn i nearly had a stroke) team. If they want to go back to their early days of battling for 4th hulk is the way to go for now. If they want to develop slowly to fight for 4th in a few years then mick is the way to go
Hulkenberg has had more chances in F1 than any driver this century. Mick over Hulk any day of the week...and Mick isn't one of my favorites.
The payoff with sticking with Mick COULD be great, if he develops. With Hulk, you're getting a known entity.
@@mikemelina7395 and hulk hates kevin. So alphine and haas pull a nico rosberg
Gio is so underrated in gasly ms second year in gp2 and gios first he fonshed 7pts behind him if I’m correct so therefore he has to be angle to do what gasly does heel us very fast but Alfa had horrific strategies looking at the London race in formula e I don’t know how he dragged that tractor into second he had a lot of engine faliours and worst car on the grid by far he deserves to be in f1 full stop
Giovanazzi deserves a seat. Zhou doesn't. Mick schumacher to Williams would be good.
I really don't feel Mick has been given a proper chance yet. Yes he's a bit crash prone, but look has his amazing defense skills. If he were in a better-off team--like Tsunoda in AT for example--the crashes would have been water under the bridge for a budding F1 driver--as it has been for Tsunoda. I think Mick has shown really solid pace and racecraft. He's just expected to make miracles in a shit box against a much more experienced and quite quick teammate
And yes you hit on a great point: Mick _is_ improving. That's massive! We already know Mick takes some time to warm up in a series. I think he needs at least one more year to show that he's a capable driver.
I'll be quite disappointed if Hulkenberg takes his spot tbh. He's had several years out of F1 at this point, and he kinda had his chance in the sun the way I see it. I don't think Haas will get who they think they're getting with Hulkenberg, unless their only goal is to have a driver who won't crash.
Perfect analysis, 100% agree with you, the only problem with Mick and Haas is that the team is in a difficult spot moneywise and he crash a little bit too much, the Tsunoda example fits perfectly as Alpha Tauri is obviously in a different economic situation than Haas
Remember "Crashtappen"? Great drivers often have some mistakes in their rookie season. You're looking for proof of speed, an arc of improvement, and if you're lucky, some leadership. Given what a mess Haas is and Mick is still showing promise, yeah he deserves a seat.
2 years in F1 = no chance yet. Nice logic 👍🏻
@@felipesalvador007 his first season wasn't driving in f1, It was more like driving a tractor on f1 circuit, he can't even compete with the bottom of the grid because of that shitbox of a car. For this year he clearly has shown that he can be a midfield driver imo, the only issue is the one i said earlier.
@@tmasoo people seem to forget this simple fact, i dont even think last year's haas would have made the 107% rule, u seriously can't count that as a rookie season. Even just watching onboards of maz and mick last year shows that car was a brick on wheels with a wooden plank for a front wing and arguably had the worst engine on the grid at the time to add to the misery. it just looked like an absolute pig to drive. so when looking at 2022 as a standalone entity, based on his progression relative to kmag he damn well deserves another year for sure.
The haaland bit was amazing ahaha
HAALAND HAALAND
K-Mag and his end plates - funny Mick hasn't had the same problem. K-Mag is responsible for the contact and takes him out of the points. Mick has been scoring more points then K-Mag recently (the team really messed him up in the Dutch GP) and then the whole Singapore issue when he wasn't at fault at all, Russell just messed up. So yeah, Schumacher has a more upside the K-Mag.
His improvement this season should give him another season imo
I hope the teams see Micks potential he has (you dont dominate F3 and win F2 without insane talent) as a risk worth taking rather than going for someone like Hulk who will always be a decent driver, but probably isnt going to become anyone special or produce special moments in the future. Also the 1und1 sponsorship money from Mick cant be that baaaad
I remember my first season in the senior category of motocross, stepping up from juniors, to a 2t 250cc dirt bike, I stacked it almost every race. The damage was more to myself than the bike, but I got to a point where I mentally got fed up and something changed - my pace increased, smoothness and efficiency increased, and also reaction times. It's simply a learning phase where you're not really prepared, because you haven't experienced that situation before. I reckon Mick will snap into some form, but only if he has the support - Gunther is hilarious, but isn't compatible with Mick's personality. Mick needs a different team to come into his own
I wouldn't count out Jack Doohan for the Williams seat, especially in the event Sargeant doesn't qualify for a superlicense seeing as Jack already has. He's been as quick as anyone in F2 this season and been unlucky not to be higher in the championship so far. I would expect him to run in a FP1 session for Alpine before the end of the year and they were pretty confident they could place Piastri at Williams, so doing so for Jack might be just as possible.
Personally I think with the other options being mentioned rhat the media is suggesting (for e.g Hulkenberg and Giovinazzi) then I think you might as well just keep Mick, if a Ricciardo wanted that seat then maybe put Mick in a reserve role for a year. He's made improvent, I didn't expect him to beat Magnussen this year but then again Magnussen really should be beating Mick with his experience in F1.
Mick's rookie year HAS to be taken into account and should not be overlooked or diminished. How fast the car was is meaningless, the amount of crashes and their effect on his overall results are the defining factor of that year. Everyone knew the Haas was going to be a dog last year, that took the pressure for results off and gave him opportunity to learn the inner workings of his job and gel with the team, instead he over drove and threw it into the barriers, then he started this year doing the same. Does he "deserve" another chance? All i can say is you have to look at his time in the sport so far to answer that question, and for me it's 50/50 right now.
Honestly, I think keeping mick, even if he is slightly worse than the other 2 options, is the right choice. The team really needs to find some stability and push from that launching point, and I think there would be a lot of negative press from haas if mick were to end up without a seat. Whether it’s deserved or not, dropping a Schumacher for an old hulkenburg or a proven not very good Giovanazzi looks bad.
I see those Jordan 1 shattered backboard over the shoulder Tommo ooooffffffff 🔥🔥🔥
I feel like Williams would be a favourable option for Mick if he can manage to get that seat. Sure the car is worse, but Williams is actually getting investment and trying to work its way up, while Haas is just fighting to survive as a team and the way that Günther speaks about him isn't generally how you want a team principal to speak of their current driver. Williams could easily put Mick on a one year deal, Sergeant won't have any other options for 2023/24 anyway, if Mick does poorly you boot him out and put Sergeant in, if he does well you have a bit of a positive dilemma if you are Williams.
As haas I would not want Nico or AG. I’d want a younger driver that I could hope to build up for the future.
I'd say yes, he deserves one more season. Mick has shown some progress and solid results in some races, now that he's getting better with a decent car. He got some points in some races and nearly got more, if it wasn't for other drivers and bad strategies. He had some lows here and there, but overall, I think he's having a solid season (like Guanyu Zhou) and deserves to stay.
He can improve his racecraft with another year. And if Haas improves in the strategy front, I think this will give Mick a better chance to improve, and for other teams and motorsports to consider him.
If I were Mick I'd go to Williams. Haas don't seem to appreciate him or be willing to invest enough in the team. The fact that they also don't seem to bother upgrading the car makes it seem like haas isn't a great place to be
I don't think Mick is staying at Haas. Like or not, they took their chances with Mick and Mazepin because they needed the cash injection into the team so they could survive 2021. There was no car development in that year, and therefore no intention to give Mick the "full experience" - no upgrades, no proper testing, no wheel to wheel battling. Now that they got what they wanted out of them, they're looking to be more competitive and fight back to the midfield, which hardly includes developing a driver so they can rise up to the test. Maybe Mick is better off at Williams anyway.
If you look at micks past career it did take him some time to get used to the cars he drove
I really think we're missing a lot of context only talking about qualis with regards to Mick's performance when he definitely stomps K Mag on race day and pure race pace.
I really dont understand Haas right now...Schumacher arguably outperformed Magnussen in the last races multiple times. And even didnt get the "big" upgrades and stuff at the same time as Magnussen. I still would understand Haas if the driver market would actually be what it was two or three years ago...but right now i believe giving Schumacher another 1 year contract is pretty obviously the right choice.
On the "son-of-a-great" analysis, there is also the Villeneuve case...
Having famous last name is probably every athlete's second worst curse on their development, with the first being labeled as "the next " by the media
Mick Schumacher tbh is facing a dark future right now.
He's having his Tsunoda 2021 moment. Deserves another year but needs to improve, at least making less mistakes.
Tsunoda is still making plenty of mistakes, but somehow he doesn't get criticised for them anymore.
I think a massive point has to be made about terrible strategy calls from haas which screwed up his Monza, Suzuka, Zandvoort and arguably Marina Bay and the dominant race head to heads. I have also noticed that if you take away Kevin's (amazing) P5 in Bahrain where Mick was not prepared to be in a points winning car, the pair would be level on points, Mick being ahead because of a P6 finish. I know it's weird to be thinking about the hypotheticals but the fact that the pair are so close in reality is not acknowledged enough.
Mick was also hit by Ocon in Bahrain, and spun as a result
You raise good points for sure
Nice details you got there bro
And Kevin was ready for a points winning car after being called in like a week earlier?
@@Sniperecholiv23 Kevin is way more expirienced that Mick
I want him to stay. If latifi can get 3 years in the sport, so should mick.
One brings alot more money than the other though.
latifi has had more scoring finish than mick and he never had a car as
good
as this year haas just saying
Latifi doesnt get 1 million in damage every other weekend
@@ricardodiaz8612 When did latifi had a more scoring finish?
@@ricardodiaz8612 this years haas is quite shit
Mick had a donkey of a car last year and the cars are so different now, so you can write off last year. This year he started slow. But he's got better as the year has gone on and he's of comparable pace to Kevin now. He's proven to be a driver that improves every year throughout his career.
He's had some accidents, but he's essentially a rookie. Carlos had a patch of crashes this year. Grosjean used to crash a fair bit and HAAS kept him for years. Mick definitely deserves to be on the grid next year.
Exactly
Not to mention that Mick's 3 big crashes this year were 2 from aquaplaning in the wet, and the other was on one of the most difficult and unforgiving tracks of the calendar. Compared to some other drivers (Tsunoda, Stroll, Latifi, even Sainz) who frequently binned it for no reason, he doesn't look as bad mistake-wise, it just happens that they were 3 of the biggest crashes of the year in terms of impact and damage.
@@KevinReillySV 2022 still is Haas like a donkey.
Keep searching for excuses lmao
@@acogsupercute No one is saying he is the next champion, but you don't have to the best driver on the grid to deserve your seat. So chill out and stop hating.
Schumacher got into q2 last year in Turkey in that brick of a car but no one praises him for that
Was that because he crashed and stopped anyone setting a lap like in France?
@@PhillipsAndDat Nope, it was a rainy qualifying and he finished Q1 in P14
I think he does, given his performances since Canada. He is unlucky that his upturn in performance has coincided with a downturn in car development, but he has shown that he has the speed to be a midfield driver. KMag is a proven driver and a solid midfielder, so I think beating KMag in the second half has shown that Mick deserves it on merit and not just on the basis of his last name.
Yeah I'd agree, both the Haas & Alfa were stronger relative to the field at the start of the season.
Fingers crossed it's just because they're holding off all their juice til 2023
4:32 percentages give a better idea for these comparisons. As 2 tenths around Austria is a lot different to 2 tenths around spa
the stand outs cancel each other out tho
I really really like Mick, and i know that plays a huge factor in how I view this situation.
I feel like he deserves one more chance, preferably in better machinery. Thst said, his results so far speak for themselves, and he simply hasn’t performed as well as expected. Part of that is the weight and heritage associated with his name.
the fact he deserves another chance at all is very arguable so he definitely does not deserve a chance in a better car. that's a bit ridiculous to hear for me
@@formularguments7335 he does deserve a second chance, because the alternatives are Gio and Hulk, who both have had a lot more chances than him and didn't do much better in the case of Gio.
@@Tooms100 hulk is for sure better than Mick. the only arguement people have for hulk not being good enough is that he has no podiums. but he is definitely capable of podiums but just bottled the few attempts he had. he matched checo at force India who is now at redbull. he wasn't far off the almighty Daniel Ricciardo (who retired after 2020) at Renault. I would definitely rather Mick than gio tho that's for sure. but it isn't just those drivers who should be mentioned. there are so many drivers in Motorsport who could have the potential to be great in f1 too.
He hasn’t performed as well as expected? I‘ve watched his Jr. and he is performing as expected in my opinion. He was always a late bloomer, starting to get a hang of the game in the end of his first season and perform really well in his second. And I would completely disregard his first season as a trial. Like you can’t learn the ropes in a car that terrible. So this season is his true net first season and would you look at that, he started to perform well in the second half of the season (minus being screwed by his team on multiple occasions). I say we really need to see his next season, because that’s his net second and we know from him, that’s when he starts to perform
The thing is he has actually "outperformed" Kmag, the thing is Kmag performed well straight away and Mick didnt, and the car was competitive where as it slowly slipped away so when Mick actually started beating Kmag the car wasnt fast enough for points either way
People think he doesn't deserve another chance in the sport because they expect him to be like Michael. He clearly wasn't/isn't/won't be like him but he's at least worthy of another season considering the drivers we've seen lately in F1. If he improves, he can stay (although I feel his talent can get him at most a midfield seat). If he doesn't he leaves, but with the certainty that he tried
He is only in F1 in the first place because he is a Schumacher...
@@felipesalvador007 no he is in it bec he won f3 and f2 lol out of the younger drivers on the grid based on previous performances he deserves to be in f1
@Heldenfan23 no he is in f1 because of his last name.
Mick is finally starting to find his pace. Kmag is the teammate he always needed, super fast and experienced, but he's young, so they can get along well
Most of the grid hate KMag, so why should Mick get along better?
3 or 4 times this year Haas stragtist has screwed over Mick. The lastest example being Japan. However before he got screwed, he was in points. So multiple times this year he's shown that he has the stuff needed to score points. So yes, he deserves to be in Formula 1. Also that defense against Hamilton was absolute masterclass. It's like he almost knew ever move Lewis was going to do before he did
The Japan strategy call was risky but if there had been a safety car it would be a whole other story, and he could’ve gotten a podium. Hindsight’s 20/20
Thats was some straight up mofackun facts
Canada, Zandvoort, Monza, Miami, Japan.
4/5 of them were not his fault.
3/5 were the teams fault
I mean where did he show the consistency? At the end Stroll gets hate for being in bec of his name but he still out qualified a hole grid or had really good teammate at a way younger age. He isnt bad but at the moment the grid is full of talente and mick especially at hid age isnt good enough.
Not to mention Seb as his godfather had to go force Haas to get him a proper personal moulded seat because they weren’t going to get him one…they haven’t invested anything in him that wasn’t bare minimum
The pressure on him must be insane. He's Michael's son, Ralf's nephew (yes I do rate him, he is a proven race winner and on his day a DAMN quick driver). He's had success in the junior categories, the Ferrari connection etc. It must be quite a lot to manage on some days at least
I want Mick to stay, he is showing clear signs of improvement.
I do think some of his costly shunts might make him less appealing to a team struggling financially.
Mick is basically having a second rookie year. Last year he had an absolute dog of a car and a non-existent team mate. This year he has a completely different spec of car...that is still a bit of a dog. Add to that the pressure being put on him by NOT having his future known and he's done pretty damn well
I think mick as been doing sound during the second half of a year considering haas hasn’t scored a point since Austria he’s been equal/out performing Magnussen so he deserves time and a car to show his full pot
Who scored points for the team more
@@fazzzykahn6516 not the fucking point my guy.
he looses in points, qualifying, pace, damage costs, (attacking and defending) there's no debate here no matter what crucial parts of racing you're gonna ignore😂
F1 as a whole will be missing out if we never get Mick on a podium or winning a race or a title for just how emotional that would be. The idea of him leaving now is just sad
I kinda feel like most people who slander Mick, are doing so because of his last name. We've gotten used to have a "this pilot doesn't deserve to be here" that I think people just gave that tag to him. But he actually won F2, he actually earned his seat. And yes, maybe his name opened up some doors for him, but at the end of the day he still has to drive.
I don't know, I just feel like, for example, Yuki had plenty of shunts and he hasn't been consistent (at least not lately) and yet he has recieved lots of support. Mick might not be the second coming of Michael, but he's not the horrid driver some people talk about, and most of his bad results, at least lately, have been due to either bad strategies, bad luck or simply mechanical issues.
Agreed! Mick also won F3. And in yuki's case, Franz Tost is a supportive TP, who said a rookie needs 3 years to settle in. Whereas GS just goes around badmouthing him every chance he gets, and not even praise him when he actually did a good job.
cope, that's what you hope but they have good reson to hate
I don't think it's completely slander. Teams have really got to look at the cost cap now, and shunts that destroy a car really hurt a team, especially one that is not a top 5. They're literally having to decide do we fire more staff or keep this one guy. I don't think Mick is awful by any stretch. He has had moments of brilliance and has gone wheel to wheel with the big boys, but are those moments enough for HAAS and can they keep taking the risk on him? We'll see.
Yuki? Most people think yuki isnt good enough BUT we all know they dont have somebody ready and dont need some old driver bec there goal isnt the best possible performance is having somebody for the future ready for RB.
Mick worked hard and he doesn’t deserve to be slagged off this way. :(
I feel like it's also important and fair to look at the mistakes from haas. their strategy and it stops have many times taken mick out of the points. zandvoort mick was comfortably in p7 and haas did a 12 second pit stop that sent him back to p17. in Suzuka he was in the points and even in the top 3 (I know it was just a brief seconds) but haas strategy to pit kmag who was way behind before mick was comical and shows that the team isn't serious when it comes to scoring points. they're the only team to not have scored points after the summer break. you see Williams improving with straight line speed and Aston Martin outscoring Mercedes 2 weekends in a row but haas is the only team truly going backwards and somehow this comes off as mick's lack of skill. personally I find that unfair. I know mick is no senna or hamilton but he deserves a chance. george Russell was given 3 season to grow in Williams and now he's performing super well. I feel like the environment at haas isn't healthy for mick
To this day, Haas's strategy in Japan made no sense.
You want Mick to perform well, and more, but you put him on the gamble strategy that basically guarantees his race being over if it doesnt pay off? And you put the other car, who isnt in the points, on the standard strategy?
It doesnt take a genius to realize that if you want to gamble, do it on the car that is in the worss off position.
Honestly, i don't see why he shouldn't continue. He has improved a lot and give him a better team, he'll bring home results.
Short answer: YES!! True to his style in his junior career, he is a late bloomer who does better in his 2nd year. He's been steadily improving as the season progresses and I believe he's been outperforming kmag for a while. Quali not his strength but other than that, he's doing a good job.
However, we all know Haas is treating him poorly, especially Guenther. He needs a more positive environment.
I used to like Gunther. Not anymore.
Personally I feel Mick is still in that rookie period. However shown much improvement to only be screwed by poor strategy & George taking him out. But when we are having conversations like this when have the likes of Yuki who hasn't scored since round 6 in better a better car and loves a good crash too. It just boggles my mind that Haas are even thinking of going with a either hulk who holds the record for the most starts without a podium and finished last in Bahrain this year or giovinazzi who wasn't great. Mick is young, we don't need to keep bringing back the old guys when it's difficult as it is to get into the sport. Like the media have said I don't feel dropping mick and putting someone else in that car will do anything for them. So just leave the poor kid alone.
He has outdone KMag in the race multiple times, even when Haas are giving him 10 year long pitstops.
He absolutely deserves a chance to still be in F1.
So what… it’s qualifying and points that matters
@@danevirke and Mick out qualified Kevin Mag on multiple occasions. Points though is a different story sadly…
@@enigmatic13465 no.... k-mag is in front 13 too 5 in quali and points yes. what too expect. k-mag is just a fare better driver
@@danevirke No one cares about quali, just look at Leclerc earlier in the season. Also it's like people forget that race results are influenced by much mroe than driving skills. Or they are too dumb to realize that.
@@iliketoast-q9b no quali and race finish is what matter. That is not even a question
Not only the way he is treated like s**t although being clearly the better driver for many races now, also the fact that he doesn’t know anything about his future is reprehensible. Hoping the best for Mick, no matter if staying at F1 or driving another series
it seems like Guenther doesnt like Mick but Kevin and Micks mechanics have always been nice to him for example when Kevin hugged Mick when Mick got his first points in F1
The audacity of Haas to question whether he’s good enough for them after how many times they’ve ruined his race this year…
GO HAAS! do it throw him out
Haas just using him as a scapegoat for their crappy cars and crappy strategies.
Bruh, he keeps crashing in the cost cap era
Crashed the car three times but go on 😂
@@Oscar42o got jobbed out of points in Bahrain Spain Canada Zandvoort and Japan by Haas but go on
I think Mick deserves at least one more full year in F1.
Also you made a statement that made me laugh loud enough while I was listening at work that made my co-workers look at me. F1 is not a Drama….. one of the best jokes I’ve heard about f1 in a long time.
Mick could be a good pickup for a team like Williams.
He might end up being like his uncle Ralf. A solid midfield or second driver for a good team in a few years.
Sargeant needs another year (or win F2) to get into F1.
Mick should get a year with Williams to see what he can do. If he can improve and fix his issues (crashes), he might be more appealing in next year’s market.
If it's possible for him, I think he really should go to Williams. It's true that he might get a shot towards points even less but at least I feel like Williams has better strategy than Haas and makes it count when it's crucial and can help in Mick's development. Also I get that Mick crashed a few times but this second half of the season all Haas has been doing is sabotaging Mick's race and most of the time I don't quite understand why? He gets a good start, sits comfortably in points and after a while because of some stupid strategy call he ends up finishing last
many people treat his first year at Haas as though he didn't drive at all, because the car drove like a boat on land. I think it could be even worse than that, he very well could have learned bad habbits / a driving style that doesn't work with a quick F1 car and is now at a disadvantage, because he had to unlearn those first.
he definitely deserves a seat over Hulkenberg and Giovanazzi
Definitely over Gio
@@OumuamuaOumuamua Also Hulk. Hulk was pretty mediocre in his final years. And he is way older. As shown, experience wont carry a team thats idiotic in its decisions.
@@jimmy5516 hulk was not mediocre at all in his final years. the only thing against Hulk is that he wasn't able to achieve a podium. he was capable of it tho but he just unfortunately bottled the very few attempts of one that he had. he was on the same level as checo at force India who is at redbull now. he wasn't far away from Ricciardo in 2019
Gio can't even perform in Formula E lmao
@windfall he was never in a car that was capable of podiums on merit in 180 races. haas aren't even a team that are capable of podiums on the most chaotic of days anyway so it's kind of irrelevant even to say. hulk is very fast and consistent and that's what matters
He deserves a 3rd year. Right now it’s Haas letting Schumacher down more than vice versa and Schumacher is better as a driver than Haas is as a team or Steiner is as a team principal. Magnussen is faster but he just throws away chances at points by fighting top teams on lap 1 and breaking a wing. If I were him I’d be trying to get to Williams
Also, if Michael was still up and about, Mick would’ve gone straight to Alfa Romeo and if he was there he’d be a proper decent driver by now. Michael would not stand for how Steiner leads
Lmao crashed the car three times but HAAS is the one letting mick down 😂😂😂
Why are people criticizing Mick but no one looks at Gunther. His strategies are completely shit.
i think people expect him to be just as good as michael. but mick is so clear of kmag that kmag should get so much shit from the community when you see how much hate mick gets
Mick does have some serious skills, he deserves more years than latifi based on name alone but he’s far better than many other drivers that had longer f1 stints
The thing with the Williams car is that it CAN be a competitive car at times (Monza, Spa, Japan, Australia). That spotty competitiveness combined with Logan's knack for not getting into trouble could give Williams way more chances at points than what Latifi has given them, or what I think Mick could possibly give them.
Ok what about Canada where Mick could have been p8 when his engine blew up? Or the bad pit in the Dutch gp. Or the time that Vettel crashed into Mick ? Or Suzuka? These "spotty" times that you easily claim that Logan will get points Mick only didn't get them cuz purely because of things that he did not have control over.
@@Rukh_3547 Obviously if Mick had no control over those situations I'm not going to diminish him for it. I'm also saying that I think Logan COULD do better, mostly because he has shown better consistency (when there's no incidents out of the control of the driver) than Mick in my opinion. Will that consistency carry over into F1? Who knows
Obviously he does. The amount of times Haas screwed him over of points position… However, I just don’t know if Haas is the right team for him. AM or Alpine would’ve been great. I’d even advise him to go to Williams rather than Haas
I think it's fair to say over the internet, Zhou seems to be having a better season than Mic, even though the championship points are saying otherwise. I think it's down to the start of the season. Zhou had a fantastic debut race, that big save in Monaco, started to out-qualify Bottas and then the fastest lap in the rain. Whereas Mick had the big shunt, another big shunt, it's almost impossible to recover when you dug such a big hole in the beginning of the season. And once the impression is settled, not just for us fans, also the Haas management team, you tend to start seeing other kinks that you wouldn't otherwise.
Yeah I'm pretty surprised with how solid Zhou has been especially considering his luck. He's tied for most DNF by a driver this year, but literally not a single DNF can be argued as his fault. His DNFs were mech failure, mech failure, mech failure, insane pileup at start of silverstone where George flipped him upside down, and got Latified last race. Meanwhile MIck only has 3 DNFs, but 2 of those were shunts only involving himself. Despite this, Zhou has more points finishes. Zhou has improved a lot of over the course of the season and is now qualifying on par with Bottas. It's just a shame that Alfa's pace has fallen of a cliff over the same course of time. If the Alfa car was still competitive like it was earlier in the season, it's pretty clear he would be scoring some impressive points right now.
It's a performance based sport. Everyone knows that.
It's difficult to evaluate Mick since the Haas is a underperforming car but the general consensus is that he needs to do better.
We already saw some sights of race craft but he needs more.
it doesn't matter too much about the cars overall performance it's about how he stacks up against his teammate. that's how you compare drivers in this sport. if Mick was finishing in the points regularly but was being beaten the same by his teammate it would be equally as bad. ofc even against a driver in the same car there is so many variables such as which drivers driving style is best for the car they are driving etc etc
You can't really judge his performance when Haas fucks up every time he performs well. Haas' strategy and pit stops are awful and they just throw away any chance at points every race.
I think the biggest issue for mick is that haas obviously wants him to push. As a young driver he does as well. But if he makes a mistake he’s on the chopping block. Ironic. I was hoping he would hopping he would be able to go alpha touri. I wish the best for him. I think it’s a crazy decision to consider dropping him for someone like hulk or AG. Nothing against them. I just think at this point mick has a higher potential then those two. I think he just needs a little guidance and leadership plus some room to grow in the car without fear of being chopped. Anywho. Just one man’s thoughts at the moment and subject to change with new info.
I think this just proves Haas is not a good place for a young driver to be. They want drivers with experience that can outperform the team's limitations
I feel the same. Like we bring in Gio or Hulk, we know what we're getting. There's probably not going to be much improvement from either of them.
Mick, meanwhile, is still improving, and quite rapidly, if we're using K Mag's qualifying as a benchmark
I used to think that mick didnt deserve to be in f1 but he really turned it up these past few races. Im sure if you put him in a good car he can absolutely perform.
Honestly I think Mick has more potential than Magnussen. Sure he’s had more crashes, but when he’s at his best he’s giving even Verstappen and Hamilton a run for their money.
Meanwhile Magnussen is more consistent in keeping the car on track, but when he gets a chance to excel he always ends up driving off the track or collecting another meatball flag. And towards the end of the season Mick has been ahead of him (when HAAS’ strategy isn’t screwing with him.) I think Mick deserves one more chance to prove himself.
Sure the first race of the season really proves your point…..
This year, on race performance, Mick is 10-7 on sundays; both drivers having the same amount of DNF's.
I think people expect too much and are too harsh on Mick cause he’s Michael’s son
I think he is essentially on almost equal race pace with Kevin, and he makes fewer stupid mistakes in first lap incidents. Based on who might be replacing him if he is kicked out, Gio or Hulk in my opinion it's a no brainer to keep Mick for another season.
I think Mick is way more important to Haas than Steiner is willing to admit. 1&1 (german company) is currently their only serious sponsor and they can´t afford to lose them. I think Mick is pretty much the only reason they are sponsoring the team (in germany they are more in the publicity because of it). If they don´t want to repeat 2021 due to a lack of money they should be interested in keeping him. Of course there are allways new sponsors available, but Haas should know it´s not that easy to put trust in a new one.
1&1 is Kevin’s personal sponsor dummy
@@jadynhasstupid2275 Other guy is correct, dummy. Mick is only reason why Haas has big sponsors like 1&1.
AFAIK Kmag doesnt have any personal sponsors this season. He used to be sponsored by Jack&Jones, but they dropped him when he left F1.
@@s1bulka he does, Lunar and some sort of cloud service
@@benfan6061 I stand corrected. He does bring Lunar.
I assume by cloud service, you mean IONOS. Its owned by 1&1, so another Micks sponsor.
@@s1bulka haha did you read the name? I got jack and jones confused with 1&1
He's made massive progress, is up against a top tier talent, and is only in his second year. If Yuki is getting more time, I think Mick deserves more time too.
Small correction for your Office reference; only Jim, not Jim and Stanley, were doing the meatball prank on Dwight, and as it turned out Dwight and Stanley were actually working together to get Jim to continue with the prank because he was getting them free meatballs
Yeah, one of the best turntables of the show.
I don’t think K-Mag and Hulk have beef. If I remember correctly, K-Mag said in an interview that the first time they met this year during the Bahrain GP. Hulk said “Suck my balls” jokingly
You can hear it in Micks voice when he crashed in Japan. He was defeated. HAAS is already running on fumes when it comes to their budget.
He has been doing better than kmag, if anything he should leave haas and away from Gunther and go to Williams instead
I feel bad for the way Mick's F1 career has went. He shows some decent potential, not as much as his father, but a decent driver that could have a long career in the midfield, or as a second at a top team. I really think the issue with him is that he started at Haas. I love Haas as a team, and if it was the Haas of old it would be a different story, but Mick got screwed by joining them for his rookie season in their worst year. If he had been put at a competent and experienced team like Alfa Romeo, he would've done much better. Look at how well Zhou has done with a decent car and teammate from a top team.
I get that Mick was slow to learn in the starter leagues, but I can't understand why Ferrari would place him at Haas and not Alfa like they did with Charles. Antonio should've been sent to Haas as the Ferrari seat and allowed a place for Mick on Alfa. Imagine what he could've done learning from Kimi his rookie season.
You raise the point for Giovanazi that it's not a good look to outqualify your teammate and then to finish behind them. But that's been happening quite a bit between Kmag and Mick, in Mick's favour 👀
Tsunoda had a far more usable rookie season than Mick and he is behind him in standings. Plus, personality wise, Mick seems like a cool guy to work with while Yuki... I wanna slap the shit out of him whenever his radio comes on.
Mick's biggest problem are his shunts. Pace, results, everything is getting better. I have no idea what his Japan damage was, was it as big as two previous ones? He clearly tends to go over the limit at times, and street circuits take their toll on him.
One thing nobody mentions - he's really good in rain. In a rain-leveled playing field, he did really good in quali and races. He could have scored massive points in Japan if Haas hadn't fucked up the strategy. 2-3 more potential better points races were fucked up by strategy or car issues.
His battles with Max and Lewis mid season were also a clear indicator he is not a out of place in F1.
He started improving at a time when Haas started falling behind the rest of the grid. Put today's Mick in a start of season situation, he'd have more points and at least one big shunt less.
Another problem of his goes by the name of Foksmash Steiner. That guy's sole purpose in life seems to be getting as many DTS minutes as possible. He's no fit for bringing up a young driver. Period.
I hope Mick manages to grab the Williams seat for next season. They might have a shitty car, but they seem a lot better at managing their drivers. In terms of success, Russell was on par or maybe even worse than Mick (would like to see a H2H between their first two seasons), but Williams stuck with him, gave him time to develop and he's become a more than decent driver. If he won't be able to catch the Williams seat, I think he'd ve better off out of F1 than in Haas.
I don't see Gio being an upgrade over Schumacher now that he got used to the new cars.
I would keep Schumacher for another year and then see to get someone like Herta a super license in 2023, and if it doesn't work out with Schumacher next year get him in for 2024.
Here's the way I see it. Mick is a solid driver and I do think Haas should resign him, not just because he's a solid driver, but also because of the Sponsor money he brings in from German companies. I think Günther and Haas are smart enough to know that getting rid of Mick can cause problems Money wise more than they already have. They are already on less of a budget than most teams so they can't really take that risk of losing more money. Sure some companies stick around, because of nationality and Nico Hülkenberg can fill that, however like you said: If they can't get Hulk on a multi-year contract than it's only going to be a matter of time until the Sponsors leave. If they get Nico on a multi-year deal than it will be all good, but if they don't than resigning Mick is the best option I believe, though Italian Jesus is also a good option. Then Factor in when Haas mucked up Mick's strategy in races he was doing well in, shunts that killed his race that weren't his fault (Bahrain, Ocon, Lap 1) and the fact that the pace defecit is shrinking between him and Kev and it all amounts to me seeing (with some German Bias addmitedly) that Mick deserves at least 1 or 2 more seasons to prove himself.
One point you didn't mention were Haas' strat and pit stop errors in Barcelona, Suzuka and Zandvoort along with bad luck in Montreal (reliability) and Monza (Safety Car), which cost Mick multiple potential points finishes - Monza being the most unrealistic of the 5 in my mind. And then there was George Russel leaving him enough space in Singapore...
I believe that had he been able to score points in some of these races, we would not even be having this discussion right now.
As you showed, there's been steady progression in his pace and consistency - the lead race engineer for Haas attested to that as well - which, for me, makes him deserving of at least another year at Haas.
If I had to pick a replacement: Hulk over Gio, absolute no brainer in my mind.
I would argue the Saudi Arabia crash shouldn’t count against him. Plenty of drivers voiced concern over that curb. Mick just got the shit end of the stick on it.
I haven't heard literally anyone mention it but I think Mick should consider the Mercedes reserve role, he should have some ties because of Michael, and there are no Mercedes Junior drivers that could take that role right now really
Mick if we are honest isn't a quick or great driver. Time to go Mick "You Are the Weakest Link"
Thank you! I’ve been saying this is way more of a rookie season just because of how shit the haas car really was, on some days he genuinely has good pace this year. And he’s still settling it to the new car like the other drivers. Yeah he’s had his moments that have been dreadful, but I think they’ve clouded peoples view of how much he’s improved
I would keep mick also I dont care about his last name cause his name is not Michael its Mick so let him make his own trail thats the issue with having a legendary parent (you can look at kids of star athletes who play the same sport as their parents it doesn’t always work) jus cause of the name doesnt mean they are the same person.
Why would Hass go with Antonio over Mick. Makes zero sense. #KEEPMICK
yeah ik. also why would they go for either lol with the plethora of options they could have but I would much rather Mick than gio
Mick has potential, legendary surname, and tons of German sponsorship 💰. Gunther making himself look like a wanker more & more everyday not signing Mick.
I'd give Mick at least another year at Haas, maybe gamble on two years if I was Gunther Steiner.
This year's car totally different design, better car able to fight others, solid teammate and as stated in the video recent pace to KMag has improved a lot.
The crash damage, he's pushing the car hard to out drive it, he's trying, he's just not got as much experience to find the limit, push it a bit over and keep control.
Max was like that the first two years in Redbull, look at him now.
Mick is doing just fine.
Bullshit mick isn't 17 year old kid
@@fazzzykahn6516 so he's not 17, who cares, it's about time in the seat and experience. Max was 19 when he was still crashing and two years behind the wheel.
As long as they are physically up to the conditions of driving, age doesn't come into it, experience does.
@@milkshakemuncher dum dum being 17 means he wasn't driving in other formula series before he came to f1...while meek mick used two years to win f2
@@fazzzykahn6516 not dumb at all, he was crashing due to putting an F1 car on its limit and keeping it there, F3 and F2 junior categories just give you experience of understanding a race weekend, practice, car setup, getting a quali lap done etc.
So Max avoided that, for any driver stepping into F1, the cars are a whole new beast, much trickier to get on the limit and holding it there.
Doing junior categories may give one a very slight advantage over a driver who has skipped some, but getting an F1 car on edge and maximising its performance is a new and steep learning curve for every new driver, no matter their background.
Look at Tsunoda, he raced the juniors, he still has had his share of crashes.
Point is, Mick has started to improve, the tide is turning and he's worth the gamble.
@@fazzzykahn6516 Max literally drove in Formula Renault and F3...
And he's been karting since he was 3 years old.
Max is literally the definition of being drilled with thousands of hours of experience.
You should use the ratio from actual times instead of just raw difference, as the percent of lap time is what you need. Lao times vary a good bit beteween circuits.
i dont think that mick should keep that seat, there are young drivers with a lot of talent and potential.
If Tsunoda can get another year despite all his incidents then so should Mick
but Tsunoda costed his team 2x front wing and front suspension this season, not almost $5mil and he is driving against Gasly, not someone like Magnussen.
Doesn't deliver enough. I know he has lots of fans but he destroys the car way too often.
110% YES! He has a BIG future in the Sport!
One of the future stars for sure, given the right car :)
I hope you're right!
@@TommoMcCluskey Yup, according to German media, a new deal will be announced in Austin :) the Williams seat if Sargent dont get it, will probably go to Hulki, he is in the running there as well, by the looks of it :)
The shunts are results of small mistakes in bad locations. I think the issue for Haas has been Gunther and his relationship with the drivers, than the drivers itself.
As expected from the initial question in the tweet, this video came short on analysis because you chose to not look at races. But you only score points in those so that is more important than qualifying, right? Essentially the basis of discussion in this video was set on the weakest side of Mick (which is qualifying), which ruins this really great and very unbiased view on Mick.
I personally have a question to a point made with how Michael, Seb or Lewis entered the sport. Sure they did super well when they entered, but isn't it a bit strange that they all had cars that actually allowed them to show off what they can? Seb was in a upper-midfield team with Sauber, same with Michael in that Jordan, Lewis had his debut in a car that should have won both championships, while Mick had a car that realistically should have never finished higher than P19. Can we really make this comparison and say its a fair comparison? Even George had no chance of showing what he can do beyond beating his teammate convincingly, something both him and Mick did in their respective shitboxes in 2019 and 2021.
My personal opinion is that Haas is a terrible team to have a debut at. The amount of tech issues preventing both Mick and Kevin to run in many practice sessions is just insane. But it gave Mick one of his strongest showings in Monza. Only 9 laps in FP2, to then be on the same pace as Kevin with just 8 laps in FP3 (barely 0.2 behind), to then be barely 0.1 behind in Quali as he had to guess how to do the lap instead of having had practice like Kevin, who didn't manage to stay in tracklimits on 2 faster laps. And then having a super strong race to seriously get in reach of points with a car that doesn't have a low downforce setup. Kevin might have been there too if it wasn't for the traffic jam to result in a broken car for Kevin, its such a fragile car, any small touch and you lose like 0.5 per lap. Kevin had that in Monza, Mick in Bahrain (who got P11 still while Kevin got P5 in a healthy car). If it wasn't for Haas, we would not have this discussion at all.
Mick is overrated. He isn't worth Haas waiting for him to improve. If they want to seriously challenge the mid field they need someone like Hulkenberg
Your talking about someone being overrated but your mentioning hulkenberg.Ironic.Mick was screwed by the strategy many times.Hell even steiner mentioned it himself.And also to point out that mick finished more times in front of kevin
@@ikaika7439 Hulkenberg is better then Mick just saying
@@quintenvanderhoorn907In what way? Hulkenberg is washed.Even when he was in f1 he got beaten by perez many times while in same team.He coudnt peform but people really like to overrate him.No wonder he is now a reserve driver.Nobody wants him .
Agreeing that Mick is overrated, but Hülkenberg is in my opinion extremely overrated as well
@@adamwuilmart People like to overrate mick because of his surname.He is doing pretty good but people think that just because he is a shumacher he should win races not realizing that he is in one of the lower midfield teams and that today f1 also requires you to have a decently fast car.
IDK how it could've happened, but Mick would've been much better off going to Alfa for 2021. Kimi would've been a great teacher for him, and we've seen through Charles development in 2018 that Alfa (sauber in 2018) is MUCH better than Haas for developing young drivers
I think Mick deserves more chances. But that's not how this works. Some teams are known to be ruthless and unforgiving. Haas is one of those teams. I understand why they did this. Haas is one of the more ambitious teams on the grid despite being arguably one of the worst teams in performance. Their aim is sky high, and i dont feel that from AM/AT/Williams/AR ... heck i dont even feel that from McLaren. I give them a pass, but they better make it work. And just like they only gave Mick a year (im not counting 2021), i'm also only giving them a year. Let's see how you can make Magnussen and Hulkenberg work together.
It seems his problem at Haas isn’t that he’s a mediocre driver, but rather that he’s an asshole. He’s not well liked by the good-natured but blunt Gunther Steiner, or anyone else at Haas apparently. If he was any better than “solid midfield driver” (at best), it might be something that can be overlooked. But he’s not, say, a George Russell (a brilliant driver who had to put in a few years at the back of the pack). And he doesn’t have a ton of money to keep him on as a pay driver, like GOATifi. And likability matters. Everyone likes Kevin Magnussen. He’s always smiling, always friendly, and just seems like someone who’d be a pleasure to work with.
From Haas’ point of view, the only reason to keep Mick is sponsorship due to his surname. If Mick shows any sort of pace potential he’ll get snapped up by a better team. But in the meantime he’s an expensive driver who’s delivering less than an average driver such as Magnussen. It would be harsh for Haas to drop Mick, but if you take emotion out of it and look at the facts, there’s no real point in keeping him. He’s never shown any pace that would nail him on as a future race winner or world champ like Hamilton, Verstappen and Leclerc did in their 1st & 2nd seasons. He’s not destined for the great things that everyone wanted him to achieve. He’s a Giovinazzi 2.0 in my eyes and it’s likely that he’ll be dropped from the FDA anyway. Also, the fact that he’s a nice guy definitely sways fans to look more favourably upon his results
We couldnt expect anything different. They guy cause great losses in accidents to Haas.
However, there will be several German Teams in F1, so there will be many spots for untalented german drivers. Mick will probably go to Audi.
If Haas wants reliability and consistency from their drivers, it should hire drivers like Riccardo, Hulkenberg or Magnussen, not like Mick or Nikita