Retired sailor here. The Navy has a long history of looking for, and finding scapegoats. Fortunately, when they are alive they still have a chance to defend themselves. It was a terrible tragedy losing that ship. It would have been an even bigger one if the Navy had succeeded in pinning the blame for it on this young man. As it is, they put him through hell and may have well ruined his life. I'd say they owe him big time. Hope you have a great life young man.
In 1967 the F-4-C fighter crashed, I was on the flight line waiting to recover it when an unmarked staff car with two civilian dressed men came up to the parking spot and asked if I was the crew chief of the jet. I said yes and they told me " I was under apprehension" and took me and my tool box into custody. I was grilled about the pre-flight, maintenance etc for hours. I was let go late that day and told to stay on base. A few days later I was ordered to report to the OSI (office of special investigations) and accused of murder. it seems a screwdriver and pliers were found in the wreckage and since I had a lot of tools in my tool box (this was before consolidated tool kits), they said I must have left the tools in the aircraft causing a jamb in the flight controls. I was devastated. A few days went by and I was contacted by the Judge Advocates office and they told me all charges were being dropped and I had nothing to do with the crash, it was the pilot's wife that was told that I must have caused the crash because there were tools found in the wreckage. She asked to see the two tools and identified them as a screwdriver and pliers her husband always carried in his flight suit. I was never given an apology from the OSI or from anyone. I was the easiest target of the "investigators". It looks like this sailor was also the target for a fast blame.
The US Navy from top down to E5 is a corrupt piece of shit, political, not military. This crowd sends two carrier battle groups to the Med. to do what? .....lookouts that can't see a ship a 1000yards away .....ass wipe ships crews that can't put out an onboard shipboard fire in four days????? This pack of ass hat politically correct panty waist piss ants wouldn't lasted 30 seconds at Leyte Gulf, but they can railroad a non rate. Where does he go to get is reputation back after they shanked him publicly.
I'm a disabled Navy Lieutenant and I would like to apologize to you for what happened to you. Had you been in my division, I would would've apologized before now. Thank you for your service.
Unfortunately this happens sometimes. You get a bunch of workers overhauling a ship and someone screws up and accidentally sets it on fire which embarrasses the contractors and Navy. What do they do? They find the most convenient scapegoat and drop the blame on him. He was fortunate that he had a fair Judge.
@@FoxtrotCharlie2 Apparently it wasn’t so simple for them on that ship. They let it get out of control and lost the ship. I was on the Kitty Hawk for a couple of years and I know what the ship looked like while they were aboard overhauling things. I’m surprised we didn’t catch on fire.
Back in the 60, the Mare Island Naval Shipyard and the crew SUNK the USS Guitarro SSN 665 next to the pier. Shipyard accidents are more prevalent than advertised but seldom as catastrophic as this fire.
It could have been lithium batteries. They were in the piles of junk stored in that area. One could have been ruptured. I believe this as I has a lithium battery randomly explode in my car. It happened out of nowhere.
@@tedunderkoffler4164yeah, shop 38a (outside machine shop) was responsible for that debacle! I worked in a 38a Shop, after this happened, on a sub tender. That incident and how it happened was drilled into us, so we didn't do the same thing😊.
This guy was in my boot camp division; he was going for SEAL while I was going for EOD. Both he and I were removed from our Spec Ops pipelines; he went seaman undesignated while I went airman undesignated. I'll admit that I had a stroke of luck with my orders and how well things have turned out for me, but that doesn't mean things were always smooth. The Navy is full of insecure and weak leaders, especially some of the E6s I've met, that they will target anyone who dropped out of a Spec Ops program to harass and bully them. I'm not surprised that Mays, a Spec Ops drop turned Undes, was pinned down for this fire. I am pleasantly surprised that he was found not guilty. Good luck out there Mays! Your story gives me the drive to change the Navy for the better.
The entire military officer ranks and many enlisted ranks are chock full of people trying to do one thing. Make a name for themselves and a career out of the military. Those kinds of people ARE NOT LEADERS. They are political hacks out only for themselves, and without a care in the world for anyone else. Many are hunting for tiny indiscrepancies they can blow up into something huge, just for the optics and potential promotions. Also called career ass kissers. They are not leaders.
Reminds me when the Battleship Iowa had an explosion that killed a lot of crew in the turret and they tried to blame one of the loaders. Someone has to be found at fault and it can't be anyone that wears gold braid.
Petty Officer Hartwig. Later turned out that an O-4 & E-9 were trying to run experimental loads in the gun. Added to it that the powder bags had been poorly stored while the Iowa was in the yards. So at the end of the day, let's blame an E-5 for senior leaders screw up.
My dad was a Navy MasterChef . He always looked after the enlisted under him. He died at 47 soon after he retired of a heart attack. Many sailors under him travel 300 miles for his funeral. A very proud navy brat.
He had his first heat attack at 45. All the chiefs his age that were at the Charleston Naval Hospital with him died within 4 years. He got one retirement check. This was in late 1976.@@danielbenington4814
I'm retired from the Navy. I seen this happen often, and if it is a E-7 and above or officer, things tend to go unpunished. They just might not get promoted for awhile. But the junior sailors always get strictly punished. If the higher ranking people just assume that you could have done it because of what they perceive as your character, they really won't change their mind about whether they think you are guilty or not. A very good thing a military judge can use evidence as their basis of innocent or guilty. But look at this sailor after years in the Navy and having the lowest rank possible. The Navy really ruined him.
A part of his soul is forever crushed under the weight of the accusations, charges, and Court's Martial. He'll get his life together, but forever he'll remember the entire weight of the UCMJ/MCM was on his back.
@@AzrealMaximusyes. I hope he doesn’t come to hate his country and the Navy. Although he certainly deserves to hate them for what they have done to him.
Guys, Salvation is Simple HalleluYAH translates “Praise ye YaH” YaH is The Heavenly Father YaH arrives via the TENT OF MEETING YaH was Who they Crucified for our sins YaH was Crucified on an Almond TREE - Ancient Semitic Cuneiform of Moshe (Moses) - Isa Scroll (The Original Isaiah) Isaiah 42:8 "I am YaH; that is my Name! I will not yield my glory to another or my praise to idols. Isaiah 43:11 I, I am YAH, and there is no other Savior but Me. Isaiah 45:5 I am YaH, and there is none else.
RHIP = Rank has its privileges ! This is true in all Militaries ! And in all branches ! I was always told, "Shit rolls down hill ! Guess where it stops ! 😅
Always felt like he was being made into a scapegoat. Even if he were guilty, the fire should have been put down early on. The sheer incompetence it took to let a major vessel be destroyed during peacetime while at dock at a major facility is criminal negligence. Admirals and other higher ups should lose rank and be discharged. Glad they weren't able to pawn it off on the little guy. This was a systematic failure.
They sure tried to though! Easier to go after the junior guy with no experience to show they did something about it. That’s how the world works unfortunately. I’ve learned that the hard way with a government job myself, it didn’t make the news though. They preach ethics and the importance of integrity, but the higher-ups themselves are the most corrupt. They get away with a lot more because they are the government and not a regular corporation. Even with a slam-dunk case, most lawyers will refuse to represent someone with a government job. If you’re not in a protected class, it’s over. One of the only ways to win a case against the government when you’re NOT in a protected class is if your case gets media coverage or if you have a lot of money to fight the case(which, as a rookie, you probably don’t have a lot of money). The media coverage will usually hold the government accountable because they want the “image” of integrity, but then you lose your privacy.
Rack fire in berthing compartment... Yet multiple failures in fire fighting equipment, poor leadership and training resulted in the loss of the Bonne...
Reminds me of the sailor that was being blamed (posthumously) for the explosion in the gun turret of the USS Iowa. They even tried to accuse him of being homosexual, and that somehow this was the bases of him sabotaging the powder bags being loaded into the barrel of the 16" gun. He was later exonerated (again posthumously), but only because his family fought like hell to clear his name and restore his reputation.
I’m sure the brass on base put tons of pressure to find someone to prosecute. It couldn’t be a systemic failure that is very common in the peacetime Navy.
I helped build that ship. Spent many months in hot summer and cold winter building it. Not just me but 100's of other shipyard workers who gave blood sweat and tears to give our Navy the finest ships ever built and for this to happen just breaks my heart.
Let me just say that if there was trash being stored below decks and any type of repair work involving "hot work" going on, and the fire suppression system was taken "offline" the ultimate responsibility should fall with the US Navy, The ships command and ships force as well as the contractor(s) performing the work. What always struck me is, where were the watchstanders ?
There were watchstanders. They alerted when they saw smoke. I wonder if they earned a medal for saving all the lives inboard? Wait, let me ask my daughter as she was inboard! God bless her and all the others who were on board. Thank you for your service!
many comments mention this young man was being used as a scapegoat. as a retiree and a person who worked directly with the military for almost 50 years i can assure you this is true. the military will never admit made a mistake no matter which branch you are talking about. the military is just like business. the upper leaders won't admit they or the company are wrong so they need to blame it on someone else. to the military, just like civilian business, you are an expendable asset.
Guys, Salvation is Simple HalleluYAH translates “Praise ye YaH” YaH is The Heavenly Father YaH arrives via the TENT OF MEETING YaH was Who they Crucified for our sins YaH was Crucified on an Almond TREE - Ancient Semitic Cuneiform of Moshe (Moses) - Isa Scroll (The Original Isaiah) Isaiah 42:8 "I am YaH; that is my Name! I will not yield my glory to another or my praise to idols. Isaiah 43:11 I, I am YAH, and there is no other Savior but Me. Isaiah 45:5 I am YaH, and there is none else.
Military systems are hierarchical - responsibility and accountability are clearly defined and enforced. Regulations and instructions were clearly set out in Duties and responsibilities statements. For example if the Captain of ship was accountable for the safety of the ship he share a good deal of the blame some blame if the ship ran a ground regardless who was on the bridge steering the ship. The management maxim says you can delegate responsibility but the accountable person always remains accountable. Leaving tools in dangerous locations is the responsibility of the technician but the officer in charge of that section would be accountable. His orders and procedural checks were deficient.
The U.S. Navy, including the other branches of the armed forces, are good at finding their escape goats instead of finding their own fault and their own mistakes.
This sort of crap doesn't just happen in the navy. When I was in the Air Force there was an occasion when I, along with another tech-trade Sergeant, was unhappy with the condition of a hydraulic actuator that had just been installed on a DeHavilland Devon aircraft. It is part of the system that raises and lowers the undercarriage. The actuator in question had been drawn from supply, it had been fitted properly to the left-side undercarriage system, but when we tested it, we could hear a scraping sound coming from inside it that did not sound normal, and that neither of us liked the sound of. I told the Engineering Officer in charge, a young _"wet behind the ears"_ fresh out of university Pilot Officer, that I wanted to remove the actuator and take it to the Hydraulic Bay for testing. Now this guy bore more than a passing resemblance to British actor Frankie Thomas, which is why we nicknamed him _"Space Cadet"_ - he had likely never twisted a screwdriver or turned a spanner in his life... but he overruled me. He said he wasn't worried about the sound I was hearing, and disagreed with me that it was a problem. Both the other Sergeant and I disagreed with him - we agreed that the actuator is not supposed to sound like that. There was time pressure to get this aircraft fixed by that afternoon and Space Cadet was feeling that pressure. Nonetheless, I refused to sign for the job. He tried ordering me to sign for it but I told him in no uncertain terms that I did not consider the actuator serviceable, therefore I did not consider the repair was safe, so I refused to sign for it. He went and got his CO, but I made it clear to him as well that I was not going to be the one with my signature on that entry in the Form 700 (aircraft maintenance log) when something bad happens. The CO explained to Space Cadet that I had every right to refuse to sign for an installation or repair if I was not satisfied with it. Nonetheless, rather do what I suggested (remove the actuator and test it), he brought in a Flight Sergeant from the late shift to inspect and sign for it. Later that afternoon, the Devon duly took off on its test flight and commenced a series of touch and go landings. It had done three or four of these when we got a call in the flight line office that there was a problem. The undercarriage was down, but they only had two "greens" - the left gear down & locked lamp was red. When we got outside onto the flight line, Space Cadet and his CO were there already. I looked straight at them with my best _"I bloody told you so"_ look as I shook my head - they studiously avoided any eye contact. The aircraft landed seemingly without incident, taxiing gently back to the flight line, until it had to make a sharp left turn into its parking spot, at which point the left undercarriage collapsed outwards, resulting the left wingtip smacking into the ground. I walked over to Space Cadet, got right in front of his face, and asked him if he had anything he wanted to say to me...still no eye-contact - and I was met with silence. The resulting investigation found that the hydraulic actuator failed when an incorrectly fitted seal had blown (it had been fitted back to front, which explained the scraping noise that we heard). This caused a significant hydraulic leak in the left hydraulic system, which resulted in there being insufficient hydraulic pressure to push the gear all the way into the lock position. They taxied back rather than stopping on the runway, because the gear lock light went green on landing, and they thought the gear had locked - but it hadn't. Leaking hydraulic fluid and gotten into the wiring and shorted the contacts on the gear lock indicator micro-switch, causing the light to come on. So, why didn't the gear collapse while they were taxing back to the flight line. Well, it boils down to luck. It just so happens that from the end of the runway where they landed, its all right turns - a right turn onto the taxiway, a right turn onto the apron and then straight along past the front of the control tower building, to the flight line, and the first left turn was into the parking spot... crash! They were lucky the wind wasn't blowing from the other direction - that would have meant a left turn onto the taxiway...... oh dear. Even though I was vindicated by what happened in the aftermath, the military loves to play the blame game. The Flight Sergeant on the late shift was blamed for not testing the actuator before signing for it... I always felt bad about that. My refusal to sign ultimately cost me two years of frozen promotion for not obeying the orders of a superior officer. Apparently, I was supposed to sign the Form 700, and then make a formal complaint. Yeah, right, and by the time those pencil-pushing shiny-arses at Admin did something about the complaint, its too late, the aircraft is already in the air. I was also taken to task by my CO for not being _"more diplomatic"_ in my dealings with Space Cadet... as he was telling me this, I remember there was a distinct smirk on his face that hinted he just might be under orders to speak to me about this. My reply was simple. I put flight safety ahead of diplomacy, and I always will. He replied (and remember this exactly to this day)... _"And I should think so Sergeant!"_ These are the types of consequences you can face for speaking truth to a superior who doesn't want to hear it!
And the military spends billions of taxpayer dollars on retention without cleaning up the real problem- people with too much rank and not enough maturity.
Hey @davidanderson4091. I think I remember this incident. Were you at OLMF in the 1980's, was your Sgt pal's name Dougie S, and was the pilot of that flight a Flt Lt who got nicknamed "hatch" because he once accidentally opened a Devon top hatch in-flight?
@@iancook3996 Yes, yes and sort of yes. Geoff V was a Fg Off at the time.. he didn't get his second stripe until he was posted to 3 Sqn. Were you a snap-head or a sumpie?
I watched Army CID over the years. Early on I thought they were super law enforcement detectives who would clean up a unit of criminals when no one else could. But as I progressed in rank and command, I found them overzealous to get anyone they could. I myself was targeted by them for something I had nothing at all to do with. They came to me with a contrived lie that I felt was suspicious in some way. If I had not been sharp and confident during the eventual interview I could no longer avoid, I might have offered him a statement about something in good faith that would have been used as a perjury trap. I pulled the agent's paperwork from the table while he interviewed me and innocently looked at it and it showed I was not being asked general background questions about my deployed theater of operations, but in actuality the target of his investigation. The agent defended himself by saying "but sir we are allowed to lie in order to get a statement...." But even his words sounded bad to him and as he left he wimpered "please sir dont let this undermine your trust in CID..."
CID are drunks, wife beaters and polyester wearing losers! I chronicled an event CID orchestrated in Germany (they attacked my pregnant Wife in public and caused her to have a miscarriage) in my upcoming book " The path less taken". It will be a scathing exposé of their criminal misdeeds along with the rampant Corruption at Brigade levels in Germany in the 90s .
@@mtphill71 Guilty of standing up to a corrupt agent who was later himself charged with child sexual abuse of his own adopted daughter. Thank you for your comment.
I'm a 71 year old disabled Vet and let me assure you of one thing. If this guy had any notions of being a lifer that is over. The military does not forgive or forget.
Yeah, I wonder what the rest of his service is going to be like. He’s probably got some time left. I served four years active in the sixties and later 6 in the Air Guard. I’m happy to say I worked my ass off on the flight line in Germany and Libya but I was always treated fairly and ate well. My dad flew B24s in WWII, and my Great Granddad fought for the Kaiser, so we have a tradition.
Good points. If memory serves correct, I believe one of the news articles stated that his enlistment was set to end very shortly after the trial concluded, something like in several months' time. Don't quote me on that, but I'm almost certain that was the case.
This is typical of the US military. They're very hard on legal processes for enlisted personnel. Even minor offenses can bring an article 15 punishment that stays with you forever. JAG is always looking to railroad someone because they can make their career advancement on things like convictions. During my time in the Army I had made a complaint about a NCO who I thought might be making inappropriate moves toward junior enlisted females. It wasn't even a major formal complaint or anything because I had no proof, but a few females had said some things to me that made me feel like they were not comfortable with what this NCO was saying. So I just let my other NCO know about it. Fast forward a few months and the shitty NCO in question is giving me and these few females jobs that were not really doable. Stripping humvees without giving us any tools and other such things. Setting us up for failure and then attempting to dish out article 15 punishments. I approached another NCO, an E-5, and lost my shit about it and he tried to have it straightened out, and ended up also trying to get me into trouble as I was leaving the Army. Civilians need to understand that the US military is not a bunch of honorable warriors. There are maybe around 10-15% of the military are actual warfighters who are worthy of the praise they receive. I always tried to be one of them, but it was hard, because that is not usually rewarded or encouraged anymore. I left after 8 years and two deployments because of that, and I turned down an offer to return as an officer (after I finished my degree) for the same reason.
@@jeffh4902You’re comparing chewing gum VS not taking accountability for Hundreds of Millions of dollars in damage the military could’ve prevented? Chewing gum doesn’t cost tax payers millions.
The military is unprofessional in a lot of stuff, its exactly why they aren't hitting recruitment goals and are begging people to join. Unless you see yourself and value yourself as a piece of trash, you're better off not joining the military.
The USN has a history of finding scapegoats. After the explosion on USS Iowa they accused a dead sailor of causing the explosion. I was in the Royal Australian Navy undergoing training the Great Lakes Training Centre and watched a USN Admiral on national TV tarnish the reputation of a dead sailor in wild an outlandish speculation.
Yeah, the Navy does have a history of finding scapegoats that’s what they’re good at. They’re horrible at trying to figure out problems the right way and blaming the right people instead they rather demote people that didn’t have nothing to do with it and have them go through all of this, instead of trying to properly deal with things as a Navy veteran, I totally agree that this guy is career is pretty much over because I wouldn’t want to stay after something like this
I was 21 and in the Navy going through a Captains Mast, 1971 I was told by others it had been a Kangaroo Court Martial. Thank god it was reviewed by a staff of lawyers in Washington which reversed the decision and reinstated me. It ruined any opportunity I had in the military.
captains mast is a convening of captain and a few officers at sea/underway for punitive reasons , if ship is pierside ,the captain is supposed to hand over to navy any prosecutionable offense
@@raythompson5883 Negative, Captain's Mast is the exact same as a Field Grade Article 15 (O4, O5, O6 Commanders) it's ALL non judicial punishment, forfeiture of pay, rank, restrictions on movement, flagged from any favorable actions.
@@williamwilson6499 A captains mast is quite often referred to as a kangaroo court. That's not unknown. Basically because the captain does not need evidence of your guilt .... just the fact you are there says something is wrong. Of course, this doesn't not mean a captain wont use your previous record in sentencing. And in some cases, Not sentencing. yes, he has final say on your guilt. Or not. This can sometime piss of the intermediate officers. This is why Usually you will get a minimum of confinement to unit. Where you going to go anyways while at seas. It appeases everyone. And it is NJP. The only bit I dont see is how it was reversed by lawyers in Washington????? That one has me thinking...as if the person being punished does not seek particularly for a court martial upon disagreeing with punishment, no one will reverse a captains mast. Certainly not lawyers in Washington...they would refer it to court martial if they felt a wrong done. That was between you and him, in lieu of the court martial you may seek later. As for a captains mast that sought dishonorable discharge????? That's where it is sticky. Usually it has to be a felony charge for that punishment, and that has to go to court martial then. Ok...you dont know the slang term for a Captains mast...forgiven...but yes...he does lack veracity of the subject there.
I was convicted at mast for article 113 at the end of 2019. 3 years later it fell off my record and nobody mentioned it again. It really depends on what you did and if you're a repeat offender. Sorry you had to go through the threat of court martial under innocence.
Reporter to Seaman Mays: "Now that you've been found not guilty, will you consider staying in the Navy" Seaman Mays: "We'll burn that bridge when we get to it"
I worked in the military medical community for a while under a three star who was well known to target any individual who threatened her in any way. I watched her assign officers to command units she had commanded only to set them up for toxic command climate issues when they were actually cleaning up her mess. She would do this to make it look like they caused the mess and once investigated, even if they were not found responsible they would look like they were poor leaders and suspect in some way. They were often suspended or targeted after entering into retirement so they would lack support and resources to fight back. Her mantra to her "inner circle" was "remember, we have our 'inside voice' and our 'outside voice.' Right now we're using our 'inside voice.'" She was telling her crew how to set someone up so they could take a fall in a contrived investigation. Her minions would actually go soil an effort to make their boss look bad for her so she could investigate them. This is our modern military officer corps. And we're talking she was targeting colonels and generals who might lose retirement at the end of their service or their entire reputation would be marred and unable to work a second career. I can't imagine what this junior enlisted man went though.
How do people like this 3 star get ahead without being found out and held accountable? It must be systemic corruption. Regardless, I feel for you as I could not serve in an environment like that
@@conan501 And you voted for Kommissar Governor Gruesome Newsom and that bumbling buffoon, bonehead in the Whitehouse and his former and current boss 44
@@optimusprinceps3526 You obviously know nothing of military justice. Have you seen the first report that basically exonerated May's??? The jerk who set the fire has already been discharged.
During Operation Overlord, cowardice was in clear evidence by the USN when the swimming tanks were released by US ships, ten miles from shore; they were to be released at less than five miles from shore. Killed by cowardly leaders but made sure they got their medals.
Not when a vessel is lost. If the command wanted to impose NJP on this sailor, he would not have been able to decline it since he was attached to a vessel
@@AzrealMaximus Actually, here's the relevant language from the current MCM: "Except in the case of a person attached to or embarked in a vessel, punishment may not be imposed under Article 15 upon any member of the armed forces who has, before the imposition of nonjudicial punishment, demanded trial by court-martial in lieu of nonjudicial punishment." (Page V-2, MCM, 2023). That's been the rule for decades, and probably since the adoption of the UCMJ in 1950. It derives from Article 15(a), UCMJ (Title 10, U.S. Code section 815(a)): "Except in the case of a member attached to or embarked in a vessel, punishment may not be imposed upon any member of the armed forces under this article if the member has, before the imposition of such punishment, demanded trial by court-martial in lieu of such punishment." I'm guessing you haven't served in the Navy, Marine Corps, or Coast Guard, thus your confusion. It's rarely an issue in the Army, Air Force, and Space Force.
Usually, the military would attach an Article 134 to insure some level of a conviction like "A Few Good Men " Any event, I hope he can find some level of peace after his name was broadcast for years as the arsonist.
It's beyond sickening what the navy tried to do to this young man. All that negligence that was going on there with flammable material not being properly stored or secured and the best they could was try to railroad this guy. Which officers or chiefs were responsible the maintenance of the ship while it was being done and when are they going to be called to the mat?? Maybe when Hell freezes over!
Always thought they were aiming for lowest guy. Nonetheless , the fire should have been shut down in its incipient stages. I'm glad the poor guy wasn't convicted. Nonetheless, think of all of the other innocent who are convicted!
The military always finds a scapegoat especially lower enlisted. I say this after 8 years active Army, 4 years Navy Reserve and 3 years National Guard. It's a pathetic attempt to cover up leadership failures. Remember the USS Iowa turret explosion?? That was the worst.
Oh the navy brass just can’t be looked at to be incompetent. They just throw charges at the enlisted and puff out their chests with all their medals that they awarded themselves and go on like we didn’t do anything wrong while this guy will have to suffer for their arrogance. Don’t get me wrong there is bad at all levels but the brass never suffers.
Was in Air Force briefly in 1988. Got out entry level separation. Glad I didn't stay in considering the almost ineffective leadership that plagues our military and all the politically correct B.S. that is in all the branches, starting at the Pentagon. Finally the way our enlisted are treated like this and above all how our veterans, especially those who experienced combat are treated by the VA, thank God I got out. By the way I am a patriot and love the United States of America but Washington DC needs especially at the present, some serious house cleaning!!🇺🇸
How could all this fire cuz over a billion dollars in damages they don't have any video footage of any of this. Somebody said here the person responsible had been discharged. So what does that mean I just got off easy and I found this 21-year-old holding the bag? When are they going over to this discharges guy and work them over in court
NEEDS RE INVESTIGATION! THERE IS SOMETHING WRONG WITH THE INVESTIGATION! WHO OWNS THE RESPONSIBILITY OF THE SHIP SAFETY WHILE UNDER OR BEING REPAIRED AND MAINTAINED ! POOR HOUSEKEEPING GREATLY CONTRIBUTES! POOR SURVEILLANCE AND MONITORING AROUND AND INSIDE THE SHIP! WHERE ARE THE F/ F TEAM? DID THE BASE HELP CAME QUICKLY? A LOT OF THINGS TO BE ANSWERED AND WE COULD LEARN FROM THESE?
Just remember all the others that weren't so fortunate. This is a win for this Sailor. Most are offered a deal (if they plea on an article 15 or captains mast) if you demand a court martial, they will come after you with a vengeance. Their shenanigans mostly succeed because young troops are scared of what they will pull to get their way. The best choice if you're innocent is go public and force the spotlight on their actions and watch out for "training accidents" As a Nation we have strayed too far from the laws and (spirit of the laws) in the constitution. Characterization of discharges is a fraudulent concept since so many are based on subordination of perjury, false information or personal prejudice. The DD214 should simply state 'separated from active service' and how long served, the rest is worn in the character of the vet and visible to other vets.
I did 30 days in custody because I rejected sexual advances from a sergeant. She said I went to lunch without permission to get a charge on me. I had zero legal counsel.
It’s funny how someone is accused of something appears on the front page. Yet, when they are acquitted the story is on page A-24 in a by the way section.
Do y'all remember the Navy Admiral in Hawaii who was letting his wife use his C-130 and air crew to fly to the Phillipines for shopping trips? He got a reprimand, but an enlisted sailor who failed to properly check out a military vehicle before using it, got the book thrown at him. I've been retired Navy for nearly 24 years, but the old saying rings true. "Same shit. Different day". I did my share of dodging bullets (figuratively speaking). Many times throughout my career, I was set up to take the fall, but seriously, it didn't take a rocket scientist to outwit the clusterf*ck of idiots and prove them wrong. In spite of all the potential setbacks, I managed to make it to retirement. The only area where they defeated me was never making E7, but I still have my integrity.
I'm gonna share a good story. Our unit went to Afghanistan 2012 (ANG unit) located between two rivers in the Midwest. An Air man was able to get a non functional Humvee running. Yes It's a radar O Reilly story. He worked for CMS Lawrence. He was a pretty boy Arrogant (some people called him Larry behind his back). 132FW. Now our unit fly's drones. What does that say?
It is disturbing that, 3 years after the loss of Bonhomme Richard, there has been no announcement of a replacement ship. They were right to scrap her, as her service life was half over and the cost of restoring her was prohibitive. But they should have budgeted for a replacement and announced it by now.
As an ex-volunteer Fire Fighter, one of the things, I learned in Fire-School, was you DONT Leave oil, or other chemical contaminated RAGS, or other things, in non-temperature controlled Areas , like Bins, or Small Rooms, because of SPONTANEOUS COMBUSTION ! EVERYONE, In the Chain, of Command, Should know this, and NOT! RELY, on the "SHIT ROLLS DOWNHILL", Philosophy ! I would hold them ALL, on "Dereliction of duty", if you're going to punish ONE!
God Bless Ryan Mays and help him recover. The Navy has a bad track record scapegoating. Every branch puts our children in harm's way and blame them to cover up the failure of those in charge.
The Navy has always looked for the easiest scapegoat to nail for something. The lower the scapegoat is in the food chain, the easier it is. They do prefer that their victim be dead though. remember the USS Iowa gun turrent explosion? Makes it a lot easier if they can't defend themselves. And before you ask, or get your knickers in a big wad, I was employed by the Navy for 35 years. I have some experience with their shenanigans. Thankfully, none of them were aimed at me.
Case never should have been brought or allowed to move forward. They had zippo against this guy. Not only did they not present enough hard evidence they didn't provide any direct evidence except one suspect eye witness. Rest was all BS and clearly a reach. Hope he gets a fair discharge after this, because they can still screw him on his discharge if it is anything other then honorable.
Psychologists recommend chewing gum when under stress to calm yourself as it activates the parasympathetic nervous system. This dudes been beaten down by the Navy enough.
It's not the first time that the Navy tried to railroad a junior guy for a disaster. I still remember the USS Iowa, anybody connected with concocting that scam should've wound up in jail.
It happens also with Officers who manage contracts. They find fraud then contractors flip it over getting the contracting officers at fault and then mysteriously these Officers “commit suicide” and CID closes the case as such.
@@davidkermes376 The press conference was after the trial outside. He should be wearing a cover. @russellhixson1692 has a right to wonder. I was wondering the same thing. It has nothing to do with the importance of truth. It's about protocol. And you sound like a dirtbag and any sailor knows that's surly not a compliment.
Over a hat? You are ridiculous. A hat has nothing to do with discipline, that was made up by delusional leadership who since the 1800s has felt somehow college qualifies officers to lead men. What about soldiers and Marines in Vietnam smoking weed? 100% natural occurrence to stress of fighting death, but to you its un-professional while warriors have used weed and harder drugs for 1000s of years for stressful functioning such as combat. But you have all the answers don't you.
I'm a retired USN surface warfare officer; was briefly embarked aboard LHD-6 in 2003. It's worth noting that NCIS has a long history of conducting shoddy investigations, of finding some vulnerable young sailor to stick the blame on (to protect both any senior officers involved, and the US Navy as an institution, from blame) and then shaping supposed "facts" (or simply fabricating them entirely) to validate their original conjecture. In 1989 they came up with an equally absurd case against GMG2 Hartwig for the USS Iowa (BB-61) turret explosion in 1989. Its not so much that NCIS is incompetent as one that has established a tradition of deliberately ignoring facts. Honestly, the Navy would be best served by shutting down NCIS entirely, purging its personnel from the Service, and creating an entirely new organization to take over its responsibilities.
I was a nuke on submarines for 6 years in the mid 80’s, we didn’t experience any disciplinary problem, small crews, close knit even with our officers. On patrol, submerged for long periods you talk to everyone, some become like a brother, officers usually wanting to help you, not knock you down like this and look for scape goats if anything went wrong, and I don’t care what ship you’re on, what branch you serve in, something WILL GO WRONG, sometimes lives lost, it’s the military. That said I had the opportunity to go on several surface (targets) ships and was shocked at the difference in military culture. The upper ranks, both enlisted and officers, maintained a…discipline(?). A specific pecking order, an enforcement of rank structure which seemed so alien to me. It reminded me of a “lords and peasants” atmosphere that went way beyond military structure, like an expected groveling from lower ranks to the highest. It wasn’t cohesion, and it didn’t seem to come from any doctrine, just some weird concept of how junior personnel were to treat senior ranks. Like “you’re enlisted and you knowledge is unimportant because I’m an officer, now shut up, obey and serve me” kinda vibe. Hard to explain but if that were how I had to serve I wouldn’t have lasted to long. There was respect for each crewman on submarines and everyone was equally worthless, regardless of your rank, until you earned your fish. Crewman that were qualified on submarines had an equal share at the table, they could save my life and I could save theirs. There was no equal footing I ever saw on surface vessels, just royalty and peons, or more appropriately pee-ons.
I worked on Orion in 38a Shop. I had all the schools.for auxiliaryman, vibration analysis, 4.0 evals, sailor of the year 3 yrs running. I applied for sub duty at the end of shore duty, was accepted to 2nd class diver school (the Navy needed e6 auxman and sub divers at the time), but no, they wanted me on an oiler, I found the same relations, between officers and crew, as you. I had just spent 3 years dealing with surface vessels. They all lacked basic knowledge of the equipment (yeah E8's too!) and nobody seemed to care. I got a Merchant Marine Engineer's license and made money running targets!😅
Yes sir........ The Officer Corp in the Army and the Navy is filled with sleaze. Good, competent, popular Officers are under constant pressure not to pass off any other "officer". It's a fucking "minefield ! And he'll never know where it came from !!!
The US Navy is based on UK royal Navy traditions so it's the most traditional service and that attitude you talk about is prevalent on surface ships. It's one of the many reasons I chose to not make the Navy a career.
poor guy's nerves are probably shot to hell. even though he was exonerated he probably still keeps looking over his shoulder for the s.p's. after the way the navy treated him, screw military decorum.
As a former Arson investigator, I understand that while arson is most often very easy to determine as such, it is also one of the most difficult crimes to gain a conviction on. Unless, the arsonist admits guilt, or there is video or eye witnesses that saw it go down, conviction is rare. The hearing judge decided that the evidence was insufficient to convict him and by virtue of the ruling, he is deemed not guilty. If he is indeed innocent, then I pray he will enjoy some semblance of gaining his reputation back.
If you are wondering why he’s still a “Seaman” it’s because while you have an active investigation or court martial you cannot rank up and in some cases you may even be demoted. This young man deserves the rank of E-4 or even E-5 promotable for the hardship the Navy has put on him, those 2 years are gone for him.
He was also in Deck department. You don’t rank up if you don’t have a rating. Sucks either way. My first duty was on that ship. Glad this chapter is over with for him. ⚓️
@@Alan-rw3ez google or TH-cam would easily explain that question. Talk to a recruiter. Take the asvab test. Asvab is the placement test for a rating/MOS. Go to boot, then to your A and or C school. Or go straight from boot camp as undesignated, play with paint. And then strike into a rating when in the fleet. Also, if you fail or quit at your school, you’ll also go into the fleet undesignated. Play with paint till you can take a test to find a new rating. Undesignated also means you won’t rank up after E-3. Just kept typing. The coffee is kicking in. You’re welcome. 😂
@@kaimanahana6972 I took the Asvab a couple years ago for the coast guard but didn’t get cleared for medical. I got a 69, since my surgeries are farther out not i’m sure Inwould have a better chance at rejoining. Thank you for explaining enjoy the coffee 😆
So, no-one in the Navy wears a cover outdoors anymore.....? I enlisted in '82, and we had to "don our cover" as soon as we cleared a doorway outside. All those sailors, and not a cover to be seen. Is this the new Navy? or am I missing something.....?
I’m happy for this sailor, I was on the ori BHR CVA-31 1970-71. Sad that they lost this new one and hope there will be another one. I feel that this sailor was done wrong. What evidence I saw I 3pm said he was not guilty. Most likely civilian workers were to blame. I was on my ship when in dry dock 1971 in Bremerton when several mishaps happened to the ship and all by civilians.
I hope he applies for and gets disability through the VA regarding what he’s been through and that he is able to use his G.I. Bill to restart his life. I wish him all the best. Congrats to his JAG lawyers who did their job properly and keep an innocent sailor from going to Ft. Leavenworth.
I hope he just grabs as much classified documents he can get his hands on and defects to Russia for what he's been through. The Navy should know that if they are going to betray one of its own, they should be prepared to be betrayed by one of its own as well.
I don’t know what happened but why is an E-1 taking the fall for a ship going down? What about the captain or admiral or whatever? I was army so I don’t really know how the command works
The Navy has a long history of this. A few examples are the sinking of the USS Indianapolis, The USS Pueblo incident! and a whole host of other incidents that aren't quite as well known!!!
Thank God the justice system worked this time. NCIS is not the crack unit the TV show makes them out to be. Their charter to indict and convict at any cost has violated the rights of many sailors, Eddie Gallagher being the most heinous example of their overreach.
It was not just NCIS that investigated the fire; the FBI also was involved. To even put this kid on trial with no objective evidence was just wrong. It is not unusual to have fires on ships in for maintenance; all it takes is one spark from a welder. I have seen it happen many times. Also, contractors hook up temporary lights that had damaged wires that spark and cause a fire. Also, you have to put Gallagher in a separate category; several witnesses initially gave statements and then changed what they said in the courtroom. We will never really know what happens when it comes to Gallagher. Happen in war, right or wrong.
I couldn’t imagine having my head so far up my own ass that I could see a news story about a sailor getting thrown under the bus by his command; and the only thing that upset me was the fact he was chewing gum.
The ship was commissioned in 1996 as a Marine assault platform. She was in the Yard for refit. Her crew was not on board, but living on shore in barracks. A small element was on board "on duty." A ship in the Yard is in danger of going up in flames at any time, due to the yard work going on. So fire watch detail is crucial, must be trained, with equipment, and ready to go. It appears the Captain failed miserably in his duties, and that the fire watch on duty was not trained, not equipped, and not ready to go. To blame it on a sailor, on the basis of the circumstances offered in evidence is pretty sad.
@@joeryanstrialbook2005 the quality of officers has gone down hill rapidly every since they decided that a degree in basket weaving is enough to become a officer. Dont get me wrong requiring a degree isn't a problem in and of itself but officers should have to be enlisted for at least one enlistment before becoming eligible to be a commissioned officer.
@@D.Trout222 Well, at 78 years of age, I look back when I was seventeen, a high school drop out sailor on board _Hornet_ steaming in the South China Sea. Which we owned in 1963. We sailors had no problem recognizing the authority of the officers, from the captain on down, the chiefs and the petty officers; they kept us together, kept the ship afloat, and we lost planes crashing onto the deck in the night. We had shipmates lost. It was a real world: we were ship's company. How the Navy keeps itself ready now, I don't know. I don't recall having that jumper.
Ex Navy (Reservist) from the 1970's. They are outside, it used to be a requirement that you put on your cover (hat for those never in the USN) when outside, no matter what. Has that regulation been changed. I also saw a video of a Captain's Mast where the proceeding was inside, and they had the accused put on his cover. That also is against the regulation that I recall. Then they had him salute the Officer administrating the Mast, but the officer did not return the salute, yet the jailers had the accused drop the salute without the officer returning the salute and dropping his first. Another regulation that seemed to be wrong from when I was in. What gives?
@@stanstenson8168 I'm thinking all parties involved have bigger fish to fry. The kid was probably looking at most of his life in Leavenworth, and an officer can designate a no cover area as much as a no salute area can be designated.
The legal system for the average citizen today is non-existent as far as costs, if I was accused of a crime I did not commit and had the choice I would choose a military court for justice.
While exact data isn’t shared by the Pentagon, military convictions rates are very high, probably in the ninetieth percentile. It’s a relief to see someone unconnected to the establishment receive vindication at Courts Martial trial. Good luck to this young man.
Military courts are line the federal courts. The prosecutors , judges public defenders and many time the juries are all on the same team. Most people don’t have the money to hire competent counsel so they plead. In exchange for composing about someone else. Sidney Powell, for example.
@@xonious9031 if he's going to make a statement before the world his attorney should at least have told him to spit the gum out nothing odd about that. Has nothing to do with the Navy he's just a 20 some year old pimple face kid who doesn't know any better.
@@God_Bless_President_Trump I would assume that he is chewing gum deliberately to indicate that the Navy have shown him disrespect on a massive scale... This guy didn't do anything and they try to scapegoat him to cover up for corrupt officers... You understand that there is no functioning Navy anymore you should listen to bilge pumps podcast number 70
I do not have any respect for Austin or Millie or many current ones who sit behind desk or on computer ....who if they had to get sent to front lines they would mess their underware...good example..Vindman...
Remember Clayton Hartwig, the deceased sailor accused of murdering 42 other sailors when the turret of his ancient WW-2 battleship blew up. I guess it's easy for the gutless Navy brass to blame the dead, because they get no trial and no defender.
Retired sailor here. The Navy has a long history of looking for, and finding scapegoats. Fortunately, when they are alive they still have a chance to defend themselves. It was a terrible tragedy losing that ship. It would have been an even bigger one if the Navy had succeeded in pinning the blame for it on this young man. As it is, they put him through hell and may have well ruined his life. I'd say they owe him big time. Hope you have a great life young man.
Did you see the evidence the Navy had?
Surely you aren’t going to cite the tired old USS Iowa turret 2 incident…
Oh, wait.
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/USS_Iowa_turret_explosion
If he stayed in the Navy his life would be hell. The butt hurt brass would get him for sure.
@@gregoryjarvis000Yup
That's what one can expect when deciding to serve and collaborate with evil.
In 1967 the F-4-C fighter crashed, I was on the flight line waiting to recover it when an unmarked staff car with two civilian dressed men came up to the parking spot and asked if I was the crew chief of the jet. I said yes and they told me " I was under apprehension" and took me and my tool box into custody. I was grilled about the pre-flight, maintenance etc for hours. I was let go late that day and told to stay on base. A few days later I was ordered to report to the OSI (office of special investigations) and accused of murder. it seems a screwdriver and pliers were found in the wreckage and since I had a lot of tools in my tool box (this was before consolidated tool kits), they said I must have left the tools in the aircraft causing a jamb in the flight controls. I was devastated. A few days went by and I was contacted by the Judge Advocates office and they told me all charges were being dropped and I had nothing to do with the crash, it was the pilot's wife that was told that I must have caused the crash because there were tools found in the wreckage. She asked to see the two tools and identified them as a screwdriver and pliers her husband always carried in his flight suit. I was never given an apology from the OSI or from anyone. I was the easiest target of the "investigators". It looks like this sailor was also the target for a fast blame.
That's a sickening story. Bureaucrats are scary organisms. Fckng filth
The military never apologizes for anything. They will always make it so that someone else is at fault.
The US Navy from top down to E5 is a corrupt piece of shit, political, not military. This crowd sends two carrier battle groups to the Med. to do what?
.....lookouts that can't see a ship a 1000yards away
.....ass wipe ships crews that can't put out an onboard shipboard fire in four days?????
This pack of ass hat politically correct panty waist piss ants wouldn't lasted 30 seconds at Leyte Gulf, but they can railroad a non rate. Where does he go to get is reputation back after they shanked him publicly.
I'm a disabled Navy Lieutenant and I would like to apologize to you for what happened to you.
Had you been in my division, I would would've apologized before now.
Thank you for your service.
A word or two of praise is owed to the wife of the deceased airman.
Unfortunately this happens sometimes. You get a bunch of workers overhauling a ship and someone screws up and accidentally sets it on fire which embarrasses the contractors and Navy. What do they do? They find the most convenient scapegoat and drop the blame on him. He was fortunate that he had a fair Judge.
No. This does not happen sometimes. And you put it out.....simple.
@@FoxtrotCharlie2 Apparently it wasn’t so simple for them on that ship. They let it get out of control and lost the ship. I was on the Kitty Hawk for a couple of years and I know what the ship looked like while they
were aboard overhauling things. I’m surprised we didn’t catch on fire.
Back in the 60, the Mare Island Naval Shipyard and the crew SUNK the USS Guitarro SSN 665 next to the pier. Shipyard accidents are more prevalent than advertised but seldom as catastrophic as this fire.
It could have been lithium batteries. They were in the piles of junk stored in that area. One could have been ruptured. I believe this as I has a lithium battery randomly explode in my car. It happened out of nowhere.
@@tedunderkoffler4164yeah, shop 38a (outside machine shop) was responsible for that debacle! I worked in a 38a Shop, after this happened, on a sub tender. That incident and how it happened was drilled into us, so we didn't do the same thing😊.
I am a Vietnam vet and I saw a lot of this type of treatment but never saw the top brass get the blame.
They never do. They always seem to fail upwards.
I have always wondered about the Forrestal & Johnny Wet Start.
Yes, mccain was a good example of this.
@@rondodson5736 Your so right my friend. Rank and money rules.
Never trust the Navy... especially semen
This guy was in my boot camp division; he was going for SEAL while I was going for EOD. Both he and I were removed from our Spec Ops pipelines; he went seaman undesignated while I went airman undesignated.
I'll admit that I had a stroke of luck with my orders and how well things have turned out for me, but that doesn't mean things were always smooth. The Navy is full of insecure and weak leaders, especially some of the E6s I've met, that they will target anyone who dropped out of a Spec Ops program to harass and bully them. I'm not surprised that Mays, a Spec Ops drop turned Undes, was pinned down for this fire.
I am pleasantly surprised that he was found not guilty.
Good luck out there Mays! Your story gives me the drive to change the Navy for the better.
The entire military officer ranks and many enlisted ranks are chock full of people trying to do one thing. Make a name for themselves and a career out of the military. Those kinds of people ARE NOT LEADERS. They are political hacks out only for themselves, and without a care in the world for anyone else. Many are hunting for tiny indiscrepancies they can blow up into something huge, just for the optics and potential promotions. Also called career ass kissers. They are not leaders.
Never the less his career in the NAVY is over.
Hope he gets smarter and makes another career choice
He needs to run not walk away from the Navy because he will be harassed and they will cause him more problems than they are worth!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Weak men make for Hard Times
As a twenty-three year retired naval veteran, great job to seaman Mays, his family and defense!
you sir are a maggot
Good job?? The guy is too stupid to not chew gun as he addresses the media.
He is a lucky man.
Ur not retired lol
@@ANostalgicMemoryI'm 24 and have full 100% p&t disability, it's usually easier to say I'm retired from the navy.
Reminds me when the Battleship Iowa had an explosion that killed a lot of crew in the turret and they tried to blame one of the loaders. Someone has to be found at fault and it can't be anyone that wears gold braid.
Petty Officer Hartwig.
Later turned out that an O-4 & E-9 were trying to run experimental loads in the gun. Added to it that the powder bags had been poorly stored while the Iowa was in the yards. So at the end of the day, let's blame an E-5 for senior leaders screw up.
Yup. And to add salt to the wound they made it out as if gay envy was the root problem. This case is very much
like that one.
I remember that.
My friend was standing in the area next to the explosion, he spent the next few weeks on burial duty.
Amen !!
As I read this story that explosion and the scapegoating immediately came to mind.
My dad was a Navy MasterChef . He always looked after the enlisted under him. He died at 47 soon after he retired of a heart attack. Many sailors under him travel 300 miles for his funeral. A very proud navy brat.
Unfortunately the average lifespan of retired military males is about 55, females make it to 65.
He had his first heat attack at 45. All the chiefs his age that were at the Charleston Naval Hospital with him died within 4 years. He got one retirement check. This was in late 1976.@@danielbenington4814
Bye chance, was your dad an air traffic controller???? If so, he was my chief while I was stationed at FACSFAC VACAPEs
@@danielbenington4814 Would love to know where you pulled that "statistic" from.
@@Tsu-d9o Broken hips, divorce, splintered shins, toxic leaderless shit and cultural marxism.
I'm retired from the Navy. I seen this happen often, and if it is a E-7 and above or officer, things tend to go unpunished. They just might not get promoted for awhile. But the junior sailors always get strictly punished. If the higher ranking people just assume that you could have done it because of what they perceive as your character, they really won't change their mind about whether they think you are guilty or not. A very good thing a military judge can use evidence as their basis of innocent or guilty. But look at this sailor after years in the Navy and having the lowest rank possible. The Navy really ruined him.
A part of his soul is forever crushed under the weight of the accusations, charges, and Court's Martial. He'll get his life together, but forever he'll remember the entire weight of the UCMJ/MCM was on his back.
@@AzrealMaximusyes. I hope he doesn’t come to hate his country and the Navy.
Although he certainly deserves to hate them for what they have done to him.
Guys, Salvation is Simple
HalleluYAH translates “Praise ye YaH”
YaH is The Heavenly Father
YaH arrives via the TENT OF MEETING
YaH was Who they Crucified for our sins
YaH was Crucified on an Almond TREE
- Ancient Semitic Cuneiform of Moshe (Moses)
- Isa Scroll (The Original Isaiah)
Isaiah 42:8
"I am YaH; that is my Name! I will not yield my glory to another or my praise to idols.
Isaiah 43:11
I, I am YAH, and there is no other Savior but Me.
Isaiah 45:5
I am YaH, and there is none else.
I pray he keeps 'IT' together & doesn't 'go postal'.
RHIP = Rank has its privileges ! This is true in all Militaries ! And in all branches ! I was always told, "Shit rolls down hill ! Guess where it stops ! 😅
Always felt like he was being made into a scapegoat. Even if he were guilty, the fire should have been put down early on. The sheer incompetence it took to let a major vessel be destroyed during peacetime while at dock at a major facility is criminal negligence. Admirals and other higher ups should lose rank and be discharged. Glad they weren't able to pawn it off on the little guy. This was a systematic failure.
They sure tried to though! Easier to go after the junior guy with no experience to show they did something about it. That’s how the world works unfortunately. I’ve learned that the hard way with a government job myself, it didn’t make the news though. They preach ethics and the importance of integrity, but the higher-ups themselves are the most corrupt. They get away with a lot more because they are the government and not a regular corporation. Even with a slam-dunk case, most lawyers will refuse to represent someone with a government job. If you’re not in a protected class, it’s over. One of the only ways to win a case against the government when you’re NOT in a protected class is if your case gets media coverage or if you have a lot of money to fight the case(which, as a rookie, you probably don’t have a lot of money). The media coverage will usually hold the government accountable because they want the “image” of integrity, but then you lose your privacy.
That was already done. The entire chain of command was burnt down.
right on! so very true.
Amen
Rack fire in berthing compartment... Yet multiple failures in fire fighting equipment, poor leadership and training resulted in the loss of the Bonne...
Reminds me of the sailor that was being blamed (posthumously) for the explosion in the gun turret of the USS Iowa. They even tried to accuse him of being homosexual, and that somehow this was the bases of him sabotaging the powder bags being loaded into the barrel of the 16" gun. He was later exonerated (again posthumously), but only because his family fought like hell to clear his name and restore his reputation.
Anyone that has experienced the toxic leadership in the Navy knows this has SCAPEGOAT wtitten all over. Glad he beat the case 👍🏽
I’m sure the brass on base put tons of pressure to find someone to prosecute.
It couldn’t be a systemic failure that is very common in the peacetime Navy.
I helped build that ship. Spent many months in hot summer and cold winter building it. Not just me but 100's of other shipyard workers who gave blood sweat and tears to give our Navy the finest ships ever built and for this to happen just breaks my heart.
Cry some more. 😅
I build cars for GM, and see people wreck them on the road......you don't see me bitch and moan. 🥺😭😭🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣
Let me just say that if there was trash being stored below decks and any type of repair work involving "hot work" going on, and the fire suppression system was taken "offline" the ultimate responsibility should fall with the US Navy, The ships command and ships force as well as the contractor(s) performing the work. What always struck me is, where were the watchstanders ?
Yup, whenever hot work is being done, there is always a fire watch assigned. Not sure what happened here.
Where was the CDO or someone to sign off on the work
There were watchstanders. They alerted when they saw smoke. I wonder if they earned a medal for saving all the lives inboard? Wait, let me ask my daughter as she was inboard! God bless her and all the others who were on board. Thank you for your service!
many comments mention this young man was being used as a scapegoat. as a retiree and a person who worked directly with the military for almost 50 years i can assure you this is true. the military will never admit made a mistake no matter which branch you are talking about. the military is just like business. the upper leaders won't admit they or the company are wrong so they need to blame it on someone else. to the military, just like civilian business, you are an expendable asset.
Guys, Salvation is Simple
HalleluYAH translates “Praise ye YaH”
YaH is The Heavenly Father
YaH arrives via the TENT OF MEETING
YaH was Who they Crucified for our sins
YaH was Crucified on an Almond TREE
- Ancient Semitic Cuneiform of Moshe (Moses)
- Isa Scroll (The Original Isaiah)
Isaiah 42:8
"I am YaH; that is my Name! I will not yield my glory to another or my praise to idols.
Isaiah 43:11
I, I am YAH, and there is no other Savior but Me.
Isaiah 45:5
I am YaH, and there is none else.
Military systems are hierarchical - responsibility and accountability are clearly defined and enforced. Regulations and instructions were clearly set out in Duties and responsibilities statements. For example if the Captain of ship was accountable for the safety of the ship he share a good deal of the blame some blame if the ship ran a ground regardless who was on the bridge steering the ship. The management maxim says you can delegate responsibility but the accountable person always remains accountable. Leaving tools in dangerous locations is the responsibility of the technician but the officer in charge of that section would be accountable. His orders and procedural checks were deficient.
The U.S. Navy, including the other branches of the armed forces, are good at finding their escape goats instead of finding their own fault and their own mistakes.
This sort of crap doesn't just happen in the navy. When I was in the Air Force there was an occasion when I, along with another tech-trade Sergeant, was unhappy with the condition of a hydraulic actuator that had just been installed on a DeHavilland Devon aircraft. It is part of the system that raises and lowers the undercarriage. The actuator in question had been drawn from supply, it had been fitted properly to the left-side undercarriage system, but when we tested it, we could hear a scraping sound coming from inside it that did not sound normal, and that neither of us liked the sound of. I told the Engineering Officer in charge, a young _"wet behind the ears"_ fresh out of university Pilot Officer, that I wanted to remove the actuator and take it to the Hydraulic Bay for testing. Now this guy bore more than a passing resemblance to British actor Frankie Thomas, which is why we nicknamed him _"Space Cadet"_ - he had likely never twisted a screwdriver or turned a spanner in his life... but he overruled me. He said he wasn't worried about the sound I was hearing, and disagreed with me that it was a problem. Both the other Sergeant and I disagreed with him - we agreed that the actuator is not supposed to sound like that. There was time pressure to get this aircraft fixed by that afternoon and Space Cadet was feeling that pressure. Nonetheless, I refused to sign for the job. He tried ordering me to sign for it but I told him in no uncertain terms that I did not consider the actuator serviceable, therefore I did not consider the repair was safe, so I refused to sign for it. He went and got his CO, but I made it clear to him as well that I was not going to be the one with my signature on that entry in the Form 700 (aircraft maintenance log) when something bad happens. The CO explained to Space Cadet that I had every right to refuse to sign for an installation or repair if I was not satisfied with it. Nonetheless, rather do what I suggested (remove the actuator and test it), he brought in a Flight Sergeant from the late shift to inspect and sign for it.
Later that afternoon, the Devon duly took off on its test flight and commenced a series of touch and go landings. It had done three or four of these when we got a call in the flight line office that there was a problem. The undercarriage was down, but they only had two "greens" - the left gear down & locked lamp was red. When we got outside onto the flight line, Space Cadet and his CO were there already. I looked straight at them with my best _"I bloody told you so"_ look as I shook my head - they studiously avoided any eye contact. The aircraft landed seemingly without incident, taxiing gently back to the flight line, until it had to make a sharp left turn into its parking spot, at which point the left undercarriage collapsed outwards, resulting the left wingtip smacking into the ground. I walked over to Space Cadet, got right in front of his face, and asked him if he had anything he wanted to say to me...still no eye-contact - and I was met with silence.
The resulting investigation found that the hydraulic actuator failed when an incorrectly fitted seal had blown (it had been fitted back to front, which explained the scraping noise that we heard). This caused a significant hydraulic leak in the left hydraulic system, which resulted in there being insufficient hydraulic pressure to push the gear all the way into the lock position. They taxied back rather than stopping on the runway, because the gear lock light went green on landing, and they thought the gear had locked - but it hadn't. Leaking hydraulic fluid and gotten into the wiring and shorted the contacts on the gear lock indicator micro-switch, causing the light to come on. So, why didn't the gear collapse while they were taxing back to the flight line. Well, it boils down to luck. It just so happens that from the end of the runway where they landed, its all right turns - a right turn onto the taxiway, a right turn onto the apron and then straight along past the front of the control tower building, to the flight line, and the first left turn was into the parking spot... crash! They were lucky the wind wasn't blowing from the other direction - that would have meant a left turn onto the taxiway...... oh dear.
Even though I was vindicated by what happened in the aftermath, the military loves to play the blame game. The Flight Sergeant on the late shift was blamed for not testing the actuator before signing for it... I always felt bad about that. My refusal to sign ultimately cost me two years of frozen promotion for not obeying the orders of a superior officer. Apparently, I was supposed to sign the Form 700, and then make a formal complaint. Yeah, right, and by the time those pencil-pushing shiny-arses at Admin did something about the complaint, its too late, the aircraft is already in the air. I was also taken to task by my CO for not being _"more diplomatic"_ in my dealings with Space Cadet... as he was telling me this, I remember there was a distinct smirk on his face that hinted he just might be under orders to speak to me about this. My reply was simple. I put flight safety ahead of diplomacy, and I always will. He replied (and remember this exactly to this day)... _"And I should think so Sergeant!"_
These are the types of consequences you can face for speaking truth to a superior who doesn't want to hear it!
And the military spends billions of taxpayer dollars on retention without cleaning up the real problem- people with too much rank and not enough maturity.
Hey @davidanderson4091. I think I remember this incident. Were you at OLMF in the 1980's, was your Sgt pal's name Dougie S, and was the pilot of that flight a Flt Lt who got nicknamed "hatch" because he once accidentally opened a Devon top hatch in-flight?
@@iancook3996 Yes, yes and sort of yes. Geoff V was a Fg Off at the time.. he didn't get his second stripe until he was posted to 3 Sqn. Were you a snap-head or a sumpie?
And I thought this was going to be a short story
I watched Army CID over the years. Early on I thought they were super law enforcement detectives who would clean up a unit of criminals when no one else could. But as I progressed in rank and command, I found them overzealous to get anyone they could. I myself was targeted by them for something I had nothing at all to do with. They came to me with a contrived lie that I felt was suspicious in some way. If I had not been sharp and confident during the eventual interview I could no longer avoid, I might have offered him a statement about something in good faith that would have been used as a perjury trap. I pulled the agent's paperwork from the table while he interviewed me and innocently looked at it and it showed I was not being asked general background questions about my deployed theater of operations, but in actuality the target of his investigation. The agent defended himself by saying "but sir we are allowed to lie in order to get a statement...." But even his words sounded bad to him and as he left he wimpered "please sir dont let this undermine your trust in CID..."
LOL!
CID are drunks, wife beaters and polyester wearing losers! I chronicled an event CID orchestrated in Germany (they attacked my pregnant Wife in public and caused her to have a miscarriage) in my upcoming book " The path less taken". It will be a scathing exposé of their criminal misdeeds along with the rampant Corruption at Brigade levels in Germany in the 90s .
Yeah, you were definitely guilty
@@mtphill71 Guilty of standing up to a corrupt agent who was later himself charged with child sexual abuse of his own adopted daughter. Thank you for your comment.
I'm a 71 year old disabled Vet and let me assure you of one thing. If this guy had any notions of being a lifer that is over. The military does not forgive or forget.
It doesn't help that he's a white male. Anyone else would be able to claim victim status and the Navy would be afraid NOT to promote.
Navy Vet and why would he want to after this.
@@poemarnan5498 Yeah, your not wrong.
Yeah, I wonder what the rest of his service is going to be like. He’s probably got some time left. I served four years active in the sixties and later 6 in the Air Guard.
I’m happy to say I worked my ass off on the flight line in Germany and Libya but I was always treated fairly and ate well.
My dad flew B24s in WWII, and my Great Granddad fought for the Kaiser, so we have a tradition.
Good points. If memory serves correct, I believe one of the news articles stated that his enlistment was set to end very shortly after the trial concluded, something like in several months' time. Don't quote me on that, but I'm almost certain that was the case.
The prosecution knew there wasn’t enough evidence and should be disbarred for bringing the charges without sufficient evidence
It sickens me how our military acted so unprofessional in their investigation.
and was that may chewing gum on camera?
This is typical of the US military. They're very hard on legal processes for enlisted personnel. Even minor offenses can bring an article 15 punishment that stays with you forever. JAG is always looking to railroad someone because they can make their career advancement on things like convictions.
During my time in the Army I had made a complaint about a NCO who I thought might be making inappropriate moves toward junior enlisted females. It wasn't even a major formal complaint or anything because I had no proof, but a few females had said some things to me that made me feel like they were not comfortable with what this NCO was saying. So I just let my other NCO know about it.
Fast forward a few months and the shitty NCO in question is giving me and these few females jobs that were not really doable. Stripping humvees without giving us any tools and other such things. Setting us up for failure and then attempting to dish out article 15 punishments. I approached another NCO, an E-5, and lost my shit about it and he tried to have it straightened out, and ended up also trying to get me into trouble as I was leaving the Army.
Civilians need to understand that the US military is not a bunch of honorable warriors. There are maybe around 10-15% of the military are actual warfighters who are worthy of the praise they receive. I always tried to be one of them, but it was hard, because that is not usually rewarded or encouraged anymore. I left after 8 years and two deployments because of that, and I turned down an offer to return as an officer (after I finished my degree) for the same reason.
@@jeffh4902You’re comparing chewing gum VS not taking accountability for Hundreds of Millions of dollars in damage the military could’ve prevented? Chewing gum doesn’t cost tax payers millions.
@@tim4570he’s a dickhead boot. When you’re actually bringing the fight to the enemy, they don’t give a fuck about what’s in your mouth. T. US Marine
The military is unprofessional in a lot of stuff, its exactly why they aren't hitting recruitment goals and are begging people to join. Unless you see yourself and value yourself as a piece of trash, you're better off not joining the military.
The USN has a history of finding scapegoats. After the explosion on USS Iowa they accused a dead sailor of causing the explosion. I was in the Royal Australian Navy undergoing training the Great Lakes Training Centre and watched a USN Admiral on national TV tarnish the reputation of a dead sailor in wild an outlandish speculation.
Yeah, the Navy does have a history of finding scapegoats that’s what they’re good at. They’re horrible at trying to figure out problems the right way and blaming the right people instead they rather demote people that didn’t have nothing to do with it and have them go through all of this, instead of trying to properly deal with things as a Navy veteran, I totally agree that this guy is career is pretty much over because I wouldn’t want to stay after something like this
WHOA !!! Ummm, ok, Justice has spoken ! Done...
Hope he gets his new life in order and peace.
I was 21 and in the Navy going through a Captains Mast, 1971 I was told by others it had been a Kangaroo Court Martial. Thank god it was reviewed by a staff of lawyers in Washington which reversed the decision and reinstated me. It ruined any opportunity I had in the military.
Captain’s Mast isn’t a court martial. I doubt the veracity of your story.
captains mast is a convening of captain and a few officers at sea/underway for punitive reasons , if ship is pierside ,the captain is supposed to hand over to navy any prosecutionable offense
@@raythompson5883
Negative, Captain's Mast is the exact same as a Field Grade Article 15 (O4, O5, O6 Commanders) it's ALL non judicial punishment, forfeiture of pay, rank, restrictions on movement, flagged from any favorable actions.
@@williamwilson6499 A captains mast is quite often referred to as a kangaroo court. That's not unknown. Basically because the captain does not need evidence of your guilt .... just the fact you are there says something is wrong. Of course, this doesn't not mean a captain wont use your previous record in sentencing. And in some cases, Not sentencing. yes, he has final say on your guilt. Or not. This can sometime piss of the intermediate officers. This is why Usually you will get a minimum of confinement to unit. Where you going to go anyways while at seas. It appeases everyone. And it is NJP. The only bit I dont see is how it was reversed by lawyers in Washington????? That one has me thinking...as if the person being punished does not seek particularly for a court martial upon disagreeing with punishment, no one will reverse a captains mast. Certainly not lawyers in Washington...they would refer it to court martial if they felt a wrong done. That was between you and him, in lieu of the court martial you may seek later. As for a captains mast that sought dishonorable discharge????? That's where it is sticky. Usually it has to be a felony charge for that punishment, and that has to go to court martial then. Ok...you dont know the slang term for a Captains mast...forgiven...but yes...he does lack veracity of the subject there.
I was convicted at mast for article 113 at the end of 2019. 3 years later it fell off my record and nobody mentioned it again. It really depends on what you did and if you're a repeat offender. Sorry you had to go through the threat of court martial under innocence.
Reporter to Seaman Mays: "Now that you've been found not guilty, will you consider staying in the Navy"
Seaman Mays: "We'll burn that bridge when we get to it"
How would he be able to decide that? If his time served isn't up? I didn't know a Sailor could make that choice?
I worked in the military medical community for a while under a three star who was well known to target any individual who threatened her in any way. I watched her assign officers to command units she had commanded only to set them up for toxic command climate issues when they were actually cleaning up her mess. She would do this to make it look like they caused the mess and once investigated, even if they were not found responsible they would look like they were poor leaders and suspect in some way. They were often suspended or targeted after entering into retirement so they would lack support and resources to fight back. Her mantra to her "inner circle" was "remember, we have our 'inside voice' and our 'outside voice.' Right now we're using our 'inside voice.'" She was telling her crew how to set someone up so they could take a fall in a contrived investigation. Her minions would actually go soil an effort to make their boss look bad for her so she could investigate them. This is our modern military officer corps. And we're talking she was targeting colonels and generals who might lose retirement at the end of their service or their entire reputation would be marred and unable to work a second career. I can't imagine what this junior enlisted man went though.
Remember how many officers they passed over to find Pershing, and Eisenhower. There is a lot of dead, or rotten wood in the Military.
I was thinking of commissioning as an officer, then I started reading these comments. Shameful.
How do people like this 3 star get ahead without being found out and held accountable? It must be systemic corruption. Regardless, I feel for you as I could not serve in an environment like that
That's a good way for her to get "targeted" either while she's in the service or out. Have to be careful who you mess with.
Don’t tell me, she’s working for the DOJ now.
Navy loves scapegoating junior enlisted..diverts blame off chain of command.
Like they did with the turret explosion on the USS Iowa.
Why do all government jobs do this?
Navy saw the backlash that was coming....
My suggestion to him now;. Take his discharge, get out of there and move to "Small Town USA", and leave all this behind him!
@@danielcoburn8635 and claim VA benefits for mental health!
So happy for him!! I knew he wasn't guilty
I'm not certain
@@optimusprinceps3526 You're opinion doesn't matter.
@@conan501 And you voted for Kommissar Governor Gruesome Newsom and that bumbling buffoon, bonehead in the Whitehouse and his former and current boss 44
@@optimusprinceps3526 You obviously know nothing of military justice. Have you seen the first report that basically exonerated May's??? The jerk who set the fire has already been discharged.
@@eac1235 That Punk has CCP owned all over him, just like that Alzheimer's ridden, International Weakling and Laughingstock in the Whitehouse
During Operation Overlord, cowardice was in clear evidence by the USN when the swimming tanks were released by US ships, ten miles from shore; they were to be released at less than five miles from shore. Killed by cowardly leaders but made sure they got their medals.
Who made the false accusation? Will there be any consequence for them?
An Article 15 is offered in a lot of cases. Good on the sailor for standing his ground.
Not when a vessel is lost. If the command wanted to impose NJP on this sailor, he would not have been able to decline it since he was attached to a vessel
@@mwduck
Anyone can decline a NJP Company/Field Grade Article 15 and ask for a Court's Martial to the next higher authority. That's in the MCM.
@@AzrealMaximus Actually, here's the relevant language from the current MCM: "Except in the case of a person attached to or embarked in a vessel, punishment may not be imposed under Article 15 upon any member of the armed forces who has, before the imposition of nonjudicial punishment, demanded trial by court-martial in lieu of nonjudicial punishment." (Page V-2, MCM, 2023). That's been the rule for decades, and probably since the adoption of the UCMJ in 1950. It derives from Article 15(a), UCMJ (Title 10, U.S. Code section 815(a)): "Except in the case of a member attached to or embarked in a vessel, punishment may not be imposed upon any member of the armed forces under this article if the member has, before the imposition of such punishment, demanded trial by court-martial in lieu of such punishment." I'm guessing you haven't served in the Navy, Marine Corps, or Coast Guard, thus your confusion. It's rarely an issue in the Army, Air Force, and Space Force.
@@mwduck you're correct, retired army. Missed the assigned or embarked on a vessel. I stand corrected.🤷♂️
@@AzrealMaximus Not to worry. Be safe out there.
Usually, the military would attach an Article 134 to insure some level of a conviction like "A Few Good Men "
Any event, I hope he can find some level of peace after his name was broadcast for years as the arsonist.
What charge under Art. 134 could have been brought based on the evidence as you understand it?
It's beyond sickening what the navy tried to do to this young man. All that negligence that was going on there with flammable material not being properly stored or secured and the best they could was try to railroad this guy. Which officers or chiefs were responsible the maintenance of the ship while it was being done and when are they going to be called to the mat?? Maybe when Hell freezes over!
Always thought they were aiming for lowest guy. Nonetheless , the fire should have been shut down in its incipient stages. I'm glad the poor guy wasn't convicted. Nonetheless, think of all of the other innocent who are convicted!
The military always finds a scapegoat especially lower enlisted. I say this after 8 years active Army, 4 years Navy Reserve and 3 years National Guard. It's a pathetic attempt to cover up leadership failures. Remember the USS Iowa turret explosion?? That was the worst.
They said the water lines and other damage control equipment was unpowered or disconnected, wow, good timing.
He can now pursue his real dream: Being a fireman.
👍😂 or his current line of employment...Chi Com Operative
@@optimusprinceps3526 Or we can find your line of employment via finding out who you are and then cancelling you
@@Whitguy86 Numismatics ? 👍🌿😜🌿 I restore and sell ancient Roman coins for a living 💰.... what do you do ?
@@Whitguy86 Can't touch this !
@@optimusprinceps3526 On the side I dox people. You left a leak on your account when you first created it btw.
Oh the navy brass just can’t be looked at to be incompetent. They just throw charges at the enlisted and puff out their chests with all their medals that they awarded themselves and go on like we didn’t do anything wrong while this guy will have to suffer for their arrogance. Don’t get me wrong there is bad at all levels but the brass never suffers.
God bless this young man. I wish him well...
God bless this young man. May he have a beautiful, fulfilling and beautiful life despite some coward’s attempt to use him as a scapegoat
The sin of mankind
Happy he was found not guilty but justice is not served until the guilty: the captain and officers, are found guilty of neglect and causing this fire
Was in Air Force briefly in 1988. Got out entry level separation. Glad I didn't stay in considering the almost ineffective leadership that plagues our military and all the politically correct B.S. that is in all the branches, starting at the Pentagon. Finally the way our enlisted are treated like this and above all how our veterans, especially those who experienced combat are treated by the VA, thank God I got out. By the way I am a patriot and love the United States of America but Washington DC needs especially at the present, some serious house cleaning!!🇺🇸
2:35 2:35
So if he innocent, who is responsible for the event?
How could all this fire cuz over a billion dollars in damages they don't have any video footage of any of this. Somebody said here the person responsible had been discharged. So what does that mean I just got off easy and I found this 21-year-old holding the bag? When are they going over to this discharges guy and work them over in court
@@georgeplagianos6487 i don't think you understand what you are hearing about this case, most of what you said is nonsense
NEEDS RE INVESTIGATION! THERE IS SOMETHING WRONG WITH THE INVESTIGATION! WHO OWNS THE RESPONSIBILITY OF THE SHIP SAFETY WHILE UNDER OR BEING REPAIRED AND MAINTAINED ! POOR HOUSEKEEPING GREATLY CONTRIBUTES! POOR SURVEILLANCE AND MONITORING AROUND AND INSIDE THE SHIP! WHERE ARE THE F/ F TEAM? DID THE BASE HELP CAME QUICKLY? A LOT OF THINGS TO BE ANSWERED AND WE COULD LEARN FROM THESE?
What kind of logic is that?
BRASS
The Judge Ruled and it’s done .
The most sane thing I've read on this post.
Just remember all the others that weren't so fortunate. This is a win for this Sailor. Most are offered a deal (if they plea on an article 15 or captains mast) if you demand a court martial, they will come after you with a vengeance. Their shenanigans mostly succeed because young troops are scared of what they will pull to get their way. The best choice if you're innocent is go public and force the spotlight on their actions and watch out for "training accidents"
As a Nation we have strayed too far from the laws and (spirit of the laws) in the constitution. Characterization of discharges is a fraudulent concept since so many are based on subordination of perjury, false information or personal prejudice. The DD214 should simply state 'separated from active service' and how long served, the rest is worn in the character of the vet and visible to other vets.
I did 30 days in custody because I rejected sexual advances from a sergeant. She said I went to lunch without permission to get a charge on me. I had zero legal counsel.
It’s funny how someone is accused of something appears on the front page. Yet, when they are acquitted the story is on page A-24 in a by the way section.
Do y'all remember the Navy Admiral in Hawaii who was letting his wife use his C-130 and air crew to fly to the Phillipines for shopping trips? He got a reprimand, but an enlisted sailor who failed to properly check out a military vehicle before using it, got the book thrown at him. I've been retired Navy for nearly 24 years, but the old saying rings true. "Same shit. Different day".
I did my share of dodging bullets (figuratively speaking). Many times throughout my career, I was set up to take the fall, but seriously, it didn't take a rocket scientist to outwit the clusterf*ck of idiots and prove them wrong. In spite of all the potential setbacks, I managed to make it to retirement. The only area where they defeated me was never making E7, but I still have my integrity.
I'm gonna share a good story.
Our unit went to Afghanistan 2012 (ANG unit) located between two rivers in the Midwest. An Air man was able to get a non functional Humvee running. Yes It's a radar O Reilly story. He worked for CMS Lawrence. He was a pretty boy Arrogant (some people called him Larry behind his back). 132FW. Now our unit fly's drones. What does that say?
It is disturbing that, 3 years after the loss of Bonhomme Richard, there has been no announcement of a replacement ship. They were right to scrap her, as her service life was half over and the cost of restoring her was prohibitive. But they should have budgeted for a replacement and announced it by now.
They're worried about pronouns. What are you pronouns? LOL 🤣
As an ex-volunteer Fire Fighter, one of the things, I learned in Fire-School, was you DONT Leave oil, or other chemical contaminated RAGS, or other things, in non-temperature controlled Areas , like Bins, or Small Rooms, because of SPONTANEOUS COMBUSTION !
EVERYONE, In the Chain, of Command, Should know this, and NOT! RELY, on the "SHIT ROLLS DOWNHILL", Philosophy !
I would hold them ALL, on "Dereliction of duty", if you're going to punish ONE!
God Bless Ryan Mays and help him recover.
The Navy has a bad track record scapegoating.
Every branch puts our children in harm's way and
blame them to cover up the failure of those in charge.
Now get the hell out the Navy
The Navy has always looked for the easiest scapegoat to nail for something. The lower the scapegoat is in the food chain, the easier it is. They do prefer that their victim be dead though. remember the USS Iowa gun turrent explosion? Makes it a lot easier if they can't defend themselves.
And before you ask, or get your knickers in a big wad, I was employed by the Navy for 35 years. I have some experience with their shenanigans. Thankfully, none of them were aimed at me.
Case never should have been brought or allowed to move forward. They had zippo against this guy. Not only did they not present enough hard evidence they didn't provide any direct evidence except one suspect eye witness. Rest was all BS and clearly a reach. Hope he gets a fair discharge after this, because they can still screw him on his discharge if it is anything other then honorable.
Chewing gum in uniforms!!!?? We would have be beaten for that!!! 🤯
Psychologists recommend chewing gum when under stress to calm yourself as it activates the parasympathetic nervous system. This dudes been beaten down by the Navy enough.
It's not the first time that the Navy tried to railroad a junior guy for a disaster. I still remember the USS Iowa, anybody connected with concocting that scam should've wound up in jail.
Don't thank the Judge, if anyone who deserves thanks, is your jag team, and of course your innocence.
To lose a damn near brand new Amphibious assault ship in Port, in peacetime. Wtf are you ppl doing in my Navy??? Just unbelievable.
They're too busy training to use the proper pronouns these days to be effective sailors, especially at damage control.
The Navy knew they were going to lose this case.
There was no case... literally he did not do it
Darkside of being in the military, scapegoat is needed in every messed up situation.
It happens also with Officers who manage contracts. They find fraud then contractors flip it over getting the contracting officers at fault and then mysteriously these Officers “commit suicide” and CID closes the case as such.
I guess you don't have to wear a cover where they are. The military has become very unprofessional the last 30 years.
headcover more important than truth in a trial? you sound like a true brasshat lifer. that's not a compliment.
If you're faithful in the little things, you'll be faithful in the big things. @@davidkermes376
@@davidkermes376 The press conference was after the trial outside. He should be wearing a cover. @russellhixson1692 has a right to wonder. I was wondering the same thing. It has nothing to do with the importance of truth. It's about protocol. And you sound like a dirtbag and any sailor knows that's surly not a compliment.
Over a hat? You are ridiculous. A hat has nothing to do with discipline, that was made up by delusional leadership who since the 1800s has felt somehow college qualifies officers to lead men. What about soldiers and Marines in Vietnam smoking weed? 100% natural occurrence to stress of fighting death, but to you its un-professional while warriors have used weed and harder drugs for 1000s of years for stressful functioning such as combat. But you have all the answers don't you.
I'm a retired USN surface warfare officer; was briefly embarked aboard LHD-6 in 2003. It's worth noting that NCIS has a long history of conducting shoddy investigations, of finding some vulnerable young sailor to stick the blame on (to protect both any senior officers involved, and the US Navy as an institution, from blame) and then shaping supposed "facts" (or simply fabricating them entirely) to validate their original conjecture. In 1989 they came up with an equally absurd case against GMG2 Hartwig for the USS Iowa (BB-61) turret explosion in 1989. Its not so much that NCIS is incompetent as one that has established a tradition of deliberately ignoring facts. Honestly, the Navy would be best served by shutting down NCIS entirely, purging its personnel from the Service, and creating an entirely new organization to take over its responsibilities.
I was a nuke on submarines for 6 years in the mid 80’s, we didn’t experience any disciplinary problem, small crews, close knit even with our officers. On patrol, submerged for long periods you talk to everyone, some become like a brother, officers usually wanting to help you, not knock you down like this and look for scape goats if anything went wrong, and I don’t care what ship you’re on, what branch you serve in, something WILL GO WRONG, sometimes lives lost, it’s the military. That said I had the opportunity to go on several surface (targets) ships and was shocked at the difference in military culture. The upper ranks, both enlisted and officers, maintained a…discipline(?). A specific pecking order, an enforcement of rank structure which seemed so alien to me. It reminded me of a “lords and peasants” atmosphere that went way beyond military structure, like an expected groveling from lower ranks to the highest. It wasn’t cohesion, and it didn’t seem to come from any doctrine, just some weird concept of how junior personnel were to treat senior ranks. Like “you’re enlisted and you knowledge is unimportant because I’m an officer, now shut up, obey and serve me” kinda vibe. Hard to explain but if that were how I had to serve I wouldn’t have lasted to long. There was respect for each crewman on submarines and everyone was equally worthless, regardless of your rank, until you earned your fish. Crewman that were qualified on submarines had an equal share at the table, they could save my life and I could save theirs. There was no equal footing I ever saw on surface vessels, just royalty and peons, or more appropriately pee-ons.
I worked on Orion in 38a Shop. I had all the schools.for auxiliaryman, vibration analysis, 4.0 evals, sailor of the year 3 yrs running. I applied for sub duty at the end of shore duty, was accepted to 2nd class diver school (the Navy needed e6 auxman and sub divers at the time), but no, they wanted me on an oiler, I found the same relations, between officers and crew, as you. I had just spent 3 years dealing with surface vessels. They all lacked basic knowledge of the equipment (yeah E8's too!) and nobody seemed to care.
I got a Merchant Marine Engineer's license and made money running targets!😅
Hyman Rickover spoke about a new culture that evolved for nuclear submarines. From manufacturing through to operations.
Yes sir........
The Officer Corp in the Army and the Navy is filled with sleaze.
Good, competent, popular Officers are under constant pressure not to pass off any other "officer".
It's a fucking "minefield !
And he'll never know where it came from !!!
The US Navy is based on UK royal Navy traditions so it's the most traditional service and that attitude you talk about is prevalent on surface ships. It's one of the many reasons I chose to not make the Navy a career.
All those supporters around, nobody thought to tell the kid to lose the chewing gum?
poor guy's nerves are probably shot to hell. even though he was exonerated he probably still keeps looking over his shoulder for the s.p's. after the way the navy treated him, screw military decorum.
@@davidkermes376 very fair point.
A very grateful sailor indeed.
Give him E-5 and a full medical retirement. If I were him I wouldnt stay in. Thats gonna keep following him.
As a former Arson investigator, I understand that while arson is most often very easy to determine as such, it is also one of the most difficult crimes to gain a conviction on. Unless, the arsonist admits guilt, or there is video or eye witnesses that saw it go down, conviction is rare. The hearing judge decided that the evidence was insufficient to convict him and by virtue of the ruling, he is deemed not guilty. If he is indeed innocent, then I pray he will enjoy some semblance of gaining his reputation back.
What an honorable young man - we need more men with this discipline, resolve and maturity.
Except for the fact that he thought it appropriate to chew gum at his interview statement !!
I know this don't mean much to non-military folks, but to my fellow service members, what is missing from these sailors' uniforms?
COVERS!!!! AN LT and an LTCDR should know better.
@@mikestanley9176 Yep!
A seaman recruit one stripe patch on the shoulder that is wearing the dumb looking anchor. No hat or as the military says a cover.
Im a serial no cover offender so ill say this- at least they all did the same thing
@@darrellcook8253 The term "cover" is no longer used in the Navy Uniform Regs. His would be a "white hat."
This kid should sue the ass off the Navy
If you are wondering why he’s still a “Seaman” it’s because while you have an active investigation or court martial you cannot rank up and in some cases you may even be demoted.
This young man deserves the rank of E-4 or even E-5 promotable for the hardship the Navy has put on him, those 2 years are gone for him.
He was also in Deck department. You don’t rank up if you don’t have a rating. Sucks either way. My first duty was on that ship. Glad this chapter is over with for him. ⚓️
@@kaimanahana6972How do you get a rating?
@@Alan-rw3ez google or TH-cam would easily explain that question. Talk to a recruiter. Take the asvab test. Asvab is the placement test for a rating/MOS. Go to boot, then to your A and or C school. Or go straight from boot camp as undesignated, play with paint. And then strike into a rating when in the fleet. Also, if you fail or quit at your school, you’ll also go into the fleet undesignated. Play with paint till you can take a test to find a new rating. Undesignated also means you won’t rank up after E-3.
Just kept typing. The coffee is kicking in. You’re welcome. 😂
@@kaimanahana6972 I took the Asvab a couple years ago for the coast guard but didn’t get cleared for medical. I got a 69, since my surgeries are farther out not i’m sure Inwould have a better chance at rejoining. Thank you for explaining enjoy the coffee 😆
It was shipbuilding, budget cuts. And there is no one in the military than never said" i don't wanna be here"
So, no-one in the Navy wears a cover outdoors anymore.....? I enlisted in '82, and we had to "don our cover" as soon as we cleared a doorway outside. All those sailors, and not a cover to be seen.
Is this the new Navy? or am I missing something.....?
I don’t think he really gives a shit now, this sailor is clearly taking his eas and discharging out of the Navy now.
I’m happy for this sailor, I was on the ori BHR CVA-31 1970-71. Sad that they lost this new one and hope there will be another one. I feel that this sailor was done wrong. What evidence I saw I 3pm said he was not guilty. Most likely civilian workers were to blame. I was on my ship when in dry dock 1971 in Bremerton when several mishaps happened to the ship and all by civilians.
Chewing gum in uniform. Nasty thing.
I hope he applies for and gets disability through the VA regarding what he’s been through and that he is able to use his G.I. Bill to restart his life. I wish him all the best. Congrats to his JAG lawyers who did their job properly and keep an innocent sailor from going to Ft. Leavenworth.
Anxiety with MDD = 100%
I hope he just grabs as much classified documents he can get his hands on and defects to Russia for what he's been through. The Navy should know that if they are going to betray one of its own, they should be prepared to be betrayed by one of its own as well.
maybe don't comment for a while@@thepunisher2988
I don’t know what happened but why is an E-1 taking the fall for a ship going down? What about the captain or admiral or whatever? I was army so I don’t really know how the command works
I told you from the start he’s innocent!!!!!!!!!!
NIS incompetence
@@optimusprinceps3526 No evidence, no case.
His supervisor at least should be responsible
@@recuerdos2457 Responsible for what? His crappy treatment at the hands of the US Navy?
@@eac1235 He's obviously a Chi Com Operative like Hunter
A seamen recruit with 3 geedunks.
Maybe he hasn't been a Seaman Recruit his entire time in the Navy.
@@dougearnest7590 buck private?
He stopped that chewing gum shit real quick 😂😂
The Navy has a long history of this. A few examples are the sinking of the USS Indianapolis, The USS Pueblo incident! and a whole host of other incidents that aren't quite as well known!!!
People make unintentional mistakes; it's in our nature, and navigational errors can occur, especially at night.
why are U.S. sailors not wearing covers outdoors
Thank God the justice system worked this time. NCIS is not the crack unit the TV show makes them out to be. Their charter to indict and convict at any cost has violated the rights of many sailors, Eddie Gallagher being the most heinous example of their overreach.
It was not just NCIS that investigated the fire; the FBI also was involved. To even put this kid on trial with no objective evidence was just wrong.
It is not unusual to have fires on ships in for maintenance; all it takes is one spark from a welder. I have seen it happen many times. Also, contractors hook up temporary lights that had damaged wires that spark and cause a fire.
Also, you have to put Gallagher in a separate category; several witnesses initially gave statements and then changed what they said in the courtroom. We will never really know what happens when it comes to Gallagher. Happen in war, right or wrong.
The real criminal here is the rough prosecutor! But he has immunity, unfenn believable!
while chewing gum... wow... very professional... needs to be a civilian..
he is more likely will be a civilian really soon... probably will get discharged Navy won't want him even though he is not guilty.
I couldn’t imagine having my head so far up my own ass that I could see a news story about a sailor getting thrown under the bus by his command; and the only thing that upset me was the fact he was chewing gum.
Lawyer should have told him to ditch the gum before speaking...
Another NIS failure 🤣
Time to catch up, it's been NCIS since 1993.
They attempted to use this guy as a scapegoat for command failures.
So who’s responsible for billions of dollar tax money lost?! No one? 😂
The ship was commissioned in 1996 as a Marine assault platform. She was in the Yard for refit. Her crew was not on board, but living on shore in barracks. A small element was on board "on duty." A ship in the Yard is in danger of going up in flames at any time, due to the yard work going on. So fire watch detail is crucial, must be trained, with equipment, and ready to go. It appears the Captain failed miserably in his duties, and that the fire watch on duty was not trained, not equipped, and not ready to go. To blame it on a sailor, on the basis of the circumstances offered in evidence is pretty sad.
His CCP Bosses got him off, obviously...one less Ship to worry about for Beijing
@@joeryanstrialbook2005 the quality of officers has gone down hill rapidly every since they decided that a degree in basket weaving is enough to become a officer. Dont get me wrong requiring a degree isn't a problem in and of itself but officers should have to be enlisted for at least one enlistment before becoming eligible to be a commissioned officer.
@@D.Trout222 Well, at 78 years of age, I look back when I was seventeen, a high school drop out sailor on board _Hornet_ steaming in the South China Sea. Which we owned in 1963. We sailors had no problem recognizing the authority of the officers, from the captain on down, the chiefs and the petty officers; they kept us together, kept the ship afloat, and we lost planes crashing onto the deck in the night. We had shipmates lost. It was a real world: we were ship's company. How the Navy keeps itself ready now, I don't know. I don't recall having that jumper.
@@joeryanstrialbook2005 That new Alphabet Crew Navy is utterly worthless
Ex Navy (Reservist) from the 1970's. They are outside, it used to be a requirement that you put on your cover (hat for those never in the USN) when outside, no matter what. Has that regulation been changed. I also saw a video of a Captain's Mast where the proceeding was inside, and they had the accused put on his cover. That also is against the regulation that I recall. Then they had him salute the Officer administrating the Mast, but the officer did not return the salute, yet the jailers had the accused drop the salute without the officer returning the salute and dropping his first. Another regulation that seemed to be wrong from when I was in. What gives?
In Nelson's navy or in the British army during the first world war he would have been found guilty as soon as the hearing began
Before, actually
Right. No pesky UCMJ back then
Help me out here , what is that anchor arm patch? Never saw one before, but the I got out 1980
SSBN A -gang
The casual gum chewing shows a lack of concern.
Or coping with nervousness. He knows his career is over and chewing gum isn't on his radar.
@@gunnyd8135 What about no covers? On any of them? Clowns.
@@stanstenson8168 I'm thinking all parties involved have bigger fish to fry. The kid was probably looking at most of his life in Leavenworth, and an officer can designate a no cover area as much as a no salute area can be designated.
This sounds like my work.. Work hard, if anything happens, we will find someone to blame.
is he chewing gum
The legal system for the average citizen today is non-existent as far as costs, if I was accused of a crime I did not commit and had the choice I would choose a military court for justice.
Lawyers are a cartel that engage in price gouging and prevent working class people form joining the profession.
Congratulations! Now stop chewing gum in uniform said every Navy chief.
While exact data isn’t shared by the Pentagon, military convictions rates are very high, probably in the ninetieth percentile. It’s a relief to see someone unconnected to the establishment receive vindication at Courts Martial trial. Good luck to this young man.
Military courts are line the federal courts. The prosecutors , judges public defenders and many time the juries are all on the same team. Most people don’t have the money to hire competent counsel so they plead. In exchange for composing about someone else. Sidney Powell, for example.
Chewing bubblegum 🤷🏽
so the Navy deserves respect? that is an odd comment you are making
@@xonious9031 if he's going to make a statement before the world his attorney should at least have told him to spit the gum out nothing odd about that. Has nothing to do with the Navy he's just a 20 some year old pimple face kid who doesn't know any better.
@@God_Bless_President_Trump I would assume that he is chewing gum deliberately to indicate that the Navy have shown him disrespect on a massive scale... This guy didn't do anything and they try to scapegoat him to cover up for corrupt officers... You understand that there is no functioning Navy anymore you should listen to bilge pumps podcast number 70
@@xonious9031 yeah they did scapegoat him there should have been at least five officers being charged with that fire
Way to damage someone’s career.
General Milley: The lack of accountability by this young man shocks me. He should have owned up to the disaster.
😂
Milley is a tool.
Milley is a leftist thug. No credibility. Turn off 60 minutes. It's commie rag mag.
I do not have any respect for Austin or Millie or many current ones who sit behind desk or on computer ....who if they had to get sent to front lines they would mess their underware...good example..Vindman...
@@lynncarden Oh, that dork Vindman is a great example. The President should have packed him off to the South Pole the moment he saw that doughboy.
Remember Clayton Hartwig, the deceased sailor accused of murdering 42 other sailors when the turret of his ancient WW-2 battleship blew up. I guess it's easy for the gutless Navy brass to blame the dead, because they get no trial and no defender.