It's nice to see the life lessons she learned from the base game in this DLC. You see her not as shut off emotionally, she doesn't scuff off hugs, she reaches out and grabs peoples shoulders to comfort them, the kiss etc.
The mini monologue about wokeness and representation was a perfect encapsulation of how I feel as well couldn't have said it any better. TH-cam needs more level headed people like you.
My Girl Aloy really showing character growth. From the girl who wants to save the world but at the same time wants to keep the people at arms lenght to actually being able to hug or kiss them. She really surpassed Elizabeth at this point.
Not really. The only development was made in the firat game, which had mjles better story and character writting. The sequel does everything else way better but the story took a nosedive and character development is non existent except for Varl, whuch we lose anyways. And they made Erend a sad drunk lol
Burning Shores was so good, I really enjoyed it. I really loved Aloy and Seyka's interactions, that final fight was epic, the visuals were amazing, I also loved that Aloy could just kinda let loose a little bit more. Seeing more of the Quen was really fun, they keep getting more and more interesting. I LOVED the new ability where you could ropecast to a downed enemy, that was so much fun. I don't give ratings on games but if I were to rate it I would give it a solid 8.5, would have been 9 if it was longer. Horizon 3 can't happen soon enough, I can't wait to unite the tribes and take on Nemesis.
I liked Walter, especially after I realized he was starting a cult. It was better than just him being evil by killing everyone. Brainwashing them, both actually and through the cult, was one of my favorite moments.
The story kinda feels like a jab at Hollywood. A self-absorbed movie producer, rising stars that get abused and groomed and even a goddamn cult. That's Hollywood 101.
This man makes a 4hr critique and like 2 weeks later the absolute mad lad makes a 1hr critique, you can name another creator with level of dedication and constant quality.
Hugely appreciate that, I did finish this one up way faster than I thought I would to be fair, I think my time away in Italy rejuvenated me a bit, I was ready to get stuck back, right away!
23:44 Yes! I remember I audibly let out a "wow" when I noticed the NPC with vitiligo. I've always found Horizon's inclusivity to be really refreshing, especially in the sequel where we come across so many unique NPCs of different races, genders, ages, sexualities, and with different body types and features. It's just nice to see representation of the kinds of people you will see on the street or in your day-to-day. Seeing Horizon (a franchise that was already ahead of the curve with rep in 2017) make effort to be even more inclusive through the NPC with vitiligo felt so special, yet honestly so in-character for Guerilla. This particular aspect of the Horizon universe lore was so lovely to hear you interpret, especially as it's something most people tend to overlook. I'm glad you took the time to notice and appreciate it!
I asked my wife her thoughts on maybe an accident that would make Sylens mute or change his voice in some way. I just don't want him needlessly killed off or even just be off screen.
This was $20 well spent. I'm happy with what I got. I made a Reddit post the other day (which I put a lot of thought into) about why I like Seyka and Aloy's relationship so much and I was glad to see that many others agreed. We see Aloy discovering she can have these feelings for people. Ones she never thought she would. The beach scene in particular was the most "out there" clue that this is something more. She says Seyka is great and suddenly gets all panicky. She stands up and the look of on her face says, "OK, why I just said that. Why do I feel this way??"
Also after the kiss, if you go back and sit with Varl, Aloy will make a "confession" that she really likes Seyka and never thought she'd have feelings for someone like this before and that she's unsure if it will be something more.
@@LeeEverett1 This exactly. Someone was telling me that because there was a choice it's not canon. Which is complete crap. She tells Varl that she cares deeply for Seyka regardless of choice. Even if you turn Seyka down, she admits to Varl that he would tell her to pursue it, and that he's probably right.
I really liked the moment after the Zeth fight, when Aloy suddenly realises that she's mirroring Seyka's emotions and she's completely thrown off balance by it. I thought it was a brilliant way to set up that beach scene. It's one simple line of dialogue and yet it reveals so much about where Aloy's head is at and what it means.
@@joedotphp the only choice I see here is whether Aloy openly admits her feelings or bottles them up like she did in the beginning. So yeah, I’m team Seyloy all the way.
@@joedotphp The choices are honestly just her accepting her feelings or her deflecting her feelings and it's not subtle either. It's not a binary choice about whether she likes her, only a choice of how she expresses said attraction, which is infinitely better.
Rewatching the footage of their final dialogue with Sylence made me realise, that the markings on the holo-globe that he shows while discussing the corporations, are all located near Seattle and in Canada. And if it's only their HQs, we are still probably going to go there and investigate. There is only four, because technically ASF's HQ located in Maker's End, that was present in the first game and they've already checked it. Going north also makes sense thematically, because the Claim and Ban-Ur are located there and Aloy would probably want to unite as many tribes as possible by travelling to their capitols. Also Elysium is located somewhere in the US territory, a few miles near Gaya Prime (probably north) and I REALLY doubt, that they won't show it at some point. I still do want to see multiple small open worlds, that you can switch between with fast travel, because it would be refreshing to the series and I have no clue, how they'll let us see Quen's Great Delta without it, but if it'll again stick to the one big open world formula for some reason, then my bets are on NORTH...))) P.S. Thanks for the video, Lazz!!!)
I did notice that too, but sort of wrote it off in my mind as if it wasn't related to what he was talking about, like it was just a random hologram rather than one that was directly marking the weapons manufacturers, although I that was more me being wilfully ignorant than anything else because I just love the idea of several smaller open worlds across the globe. It'll be interesting to see what they do nonetheless and I really would LOVE to see the Quen's Empire, after all this talk in FW, I need that. Glad you enjoyed the video, thanks for the comment!
@@LazerzZ I can't see any reason why missions to the HQ's can't result in follow up missions to specific labs in other maps. It's not like R&D materials are going to be stored in the HQ's themselves. That would make no sense. They're far more likely to be scattered all over the world in different facilities that have to be identified from data found in the HQ's. Can you tell I want several smaller maps too? Also, I really, really want to attach a small shelter to the back of an over-ridden Stormbird and fly across the ocean.
I don’t really believe multiple small open worlds would work well unless they were somehow organically traveled too. Valhalla tried multiple areas with its atlas feature but with its focus on England it just made the other areas feel empty
One thing about the Spectre Gauntlet is that if you tag a point on a machine with R1 and hit that point with your railgun, the damage to the machine is pretty heavily increased. Was super useful in the final battle.
There's also apparently a shrapnel mechanic. So like let's do you tag the tail of the thunderjaw and then shoot down the length of it's body you get the ticks from the railgun, the bonus damage from the mark and then more bonus damage from shrapnel. It's how a lot of people are one shotting apex's on ultra hard. But no one knows if it's an actual mechanic or a bug because it's pretty busted lol
I absolutely loved Burning Shores. It's a very nice addition to Aloy's character arc and I seriously cannot wait to see how the third game will turn out. It sucks that it's being review bombed for "being woke by making aloy gay" because if they actually played the game and looked deeper, the signs have all been there since the first game. How people let a character's sexual orientation ruin a magnificent franchise for them, I have no idea.
I really liked that the romance was reserved for the dlc. I have always been afraid that a romance plot line would derail Aloy’s story, and horizon has never been a ‘romance.’ However, in this side chapter, they were able to really focus (no pun intended) on Aloy and Seyka’s relationship without taking away from the overall story and, like you, I didn’t realize how much I needed that (and Aloy gay panicking is so endearing and fun to witness). Great critique as always!
Happy to see you firing on all cylinders lately, you had me worried when you were freaking out about your videos not getting as many views. Congratulations on the recent successes, the content is really good
@@LazerzZ Hopefully you'll still focus on quality over quantity. Also, I appreciate you don't fish for attention: saying things like "hit that like, subscribe, notification, etc" TH-camrs who do this piss me off to no end
I'm definitely on board with the Seyka romance and I hope the third game either explores that more or maybe even experiment with a romance function where the player can choose. IMO Aloy's character has had something lacking about her, and seeing her be vulnerable like this makes her more human which I appreciate.
I mean, she didn't need romance to be a whole person. Plenty of people out there simply don't experience attraction, whether sexual, romantic, or both. They aren't lacking something about them. IMO Aloy felt complete - just introverted, guarded, and understandably standoffish given her childhood as an outcast. We're just seeing her open up around more people as she learns there are people she can trust as genuine allies.
I absolutely love all your Horizon videos. You have the platform, the words and the skills to show how wonderful they are! And almost always you speak the same sentiments I feel about them but am never able to articulate. So thank you!! Your part about Aloy's character arc and her romance with Seyka is the same conclusion I came to on my own while playing it but I had to talk sense into myself about it. While playing and noting her obvious crush I remember thinking "I dunno, I liked Aloy being a lone warrior." But then the more I played, the more I thought about FW and the more I noted how happy Aloy was to have Seyka with her, I realized I was projecting and that her character journey was never about staying alone but instead about embracing companionship with her found family. And what better way to further that journey than to give her a romantic partner. It was SO masterfully done that I felt dumb for having questioned it at first. I can't wait for the 3rd game to further Seyka and Aloy as characters and also their relationship. (As a side note I do really hope Sylens continues to be a character in the third game despite the actor's passing and that they're able to recast him. He's my favorite character, for one, and it'd be heartbreaking to see them write him out after the set up at the end of Burning Shores for his character growth. While no one can replace Lance I think the audience getting to see the end of his character arc would've been what he wanted.)
40:32 Exactly. Rey isn’t a bad character because she’s a woman. She’s a bad character because she was written incredibly shallow with no character flaws & easily able to pick up on the Force, something that Luke struggled in but eventually mastered. This is especially telling with some of the other well written female characters in Star Wars like Princess Leia, Ahsoka Tano, & Nightsister Merrin. Aloy isn’t shallow & has flaws, including being incredibly stubborn & constantly comparing herself to Elisabet instead being her own person.
@@redgambitt_8260 Hard to say if that's the tone the makers are going for. Varl's death is very much a tonal exception for the purposes of story, as nothing else in either Zero Dawn or Forbidden West indicates that direction, but yes that is a potential Sword of Damocles that has been introduced.
@@TheKazragore It _is_ hard to say for the reasons you said, but now that we’ve seen Guerrilla show us a death of an important character, it indicates they’re at least comfortable enough with the idea of killing off someone as meaningful to Aloy as him. Not only that, but we’ve also seen the stakes get raised from “OK, Hades, an advanced AI, has to be defeated to save our homeland” to “OK, Far Zenith, an extremely technologically advanced and biologically immortal civilization has to be defeated to save our planet” in 1 game. Now the stakes are “OK, Nemesis, a rogue entity that completely scared Far Zenith shitless and may or may not be destructible, has to somehow be stopped to save the planet and humanity”. When things get as volatile and as dangerous as that, I don’t know if there’s any telling of what will happen to the main cast, let alone any of the newer characters we’ve met, including Seyka. I’d hope for Aloy’s sake she’s not, but it’s not up to me how her story unfolds.
I am a huge fan of the Horizon games and have been since the release of HZD. I love these games, the story, characters, visuals and the machines. I have more than 500+ hours played in the first game and 350+ hours in this game. So its fair to say that I was more than exited to play the DLC. The DLC for me was very good. I love the new map with the new visuals for the PS5, secrets and the new machines. The things that disappointed me was that their wasn’t a tallneck, no hunting ground, no new strike board, no way to show where the collectibles are located on the map and no new training pit. Which if you look at the Frozen wilds DLC their where a new hunting ground and a new tallneck. I feel like in my opinion that these things are essential to Horizon and to not include them in this DLC was a bit of a mistake on Gurrillas part. But if I put aside these things the DLC is a masterpiece. When the DLC started I instantly felt like the machines here were way stronger and harder to beat than in the main game. I belive this was because there where more apex variants and that new machines had so much more health than I had anticipated. This made the game for the first time in forever hard for me (I only play on ultra hard) which both made the game a little bit infuriating but mostly fun and enjoyable. Another thing I love about this DLC is the story that it tells. I was expecting a story that would focus more on the the things like the main game did, go here, find this, solve that and so on. Which it also did but I felt like the real focus in this story was (as you said) character development. Finally we get to see a part of Aloy that we haven’t seen before. Aloy has always been the person that is independet, capible, strong and smart but in this story with Seyka we get to see Aloy nervous, a bit insecure and hesitant in how she acts and talks with Seyka. I thought that the thing that I would love the most about this DLC was the big fight with the horus but this great story combined with the storytelling made me forget about that and just focus on the things that was happening infront of me. I must say that the fight with the horus was a blast and really made me understand why we had to wait for more than six years to finally face it in battle, the wait was worth it in my opinion. But the real thing that blew me away was the ending with Sayka (spoilers!!!) were Aloy opens up to Seyka about her feelings towards the Nora and what an affect their treatment had on her. Here we really get to see and hear from Aloy herself how she has developed as a character throughout the hole story in both games. As if that wasn’t enough we also get to see Aloy show an emotion which she hasn’t show or felt before with Seyka. I once again love this and for Aloy to finally have someone who she likes more is just the thing that made the perfect sense to bring in to the game in order to further develop her character. I must say I was worried that Gurrilla was bringing in this love aspect to a game where this isn’t the main thing so to say. I liked that a game was made where romantic love wasn’t involved with the main character because Aloy didn’t find that important because she had bigger things to take care of. But I apploud Gurrilla for bringing it in now in a way that doesn’t feel forced in a way that it does in other games. Guerrilla knew that this is what Aloy nedeed next in her story and that they had to make it both beliveble and in a way realistic. To which I say the did and succeded with. I absolutely love this game and world that Guerrilla has created and all of this really shows (what you said again) that Guerrilla really love this game and story too and knows what to do in order to make a story both believable and amazing at the same time. (Sorry about the essay but once I started writing I couldnt stop). I also wanna thank you LazerzZ for making these videos about Horizon I could watch them for hours on repeat (and have done sometimes).
I agree with you that the lack of some side-content to be expanded on was a little disappointing. Having no new Strike pieces for the new machines is a bit sad and no hunting grounds is just straight up a mistake to me. The lack of Tallnecks seems to be trying to adjust to fan feedback, only in a not great way. Hopefully they fix it in the third game. Tallnecks are not like Ubisoft towers, the great thing about them in Forbidden west was that they were like mini-puzzles. Getting on top for each of them was unique (unless you waited till the end of the game to get a flying machine to control lol).
one thing i did find that was really neat was that they put a grave piece for Lance Reddick next to one of the aerial capture in the northwest-ish side of the map, was really nice when i accidentally found it
@@christopherbronson3275 I recommend going to the Burning Shores Interactive Map and turning everything off except for miscellaneous (Under "Other"), should be much easier then me trying to explain it lol
So let's get this straight. This story features a narcissistic movie producer, rising stars that get groomed and a goddamn cult that promises "ascension." I see Hollywood has not really changed after 1000 years. :P
I really liked Londra. To be honest I look at the present day ultra rich individuals in our time, and I see Londra as a charicature of that. It's not subtle, but Sam Witwer just looks like he's having a lot of fun with the character. And so from that perspective I enjoyed Londra. With the Horizon games I feel that antagonists often represent some sort of theme or symbolism. The real depth comes from the protagonists and how they deal with the actions of the antagonists past or present. I think there's a tendency to expect antagonists to always have tons of depth, when it's also perfectly fine for them to just be assholes. Because those kinds of people do exist. But I digress. Aloy's progression throughout Forbidden West and into Burning Shores is so, so, so satisfying. Her interaction with Gildun was really wholesome, and the chemistry with Seyka was wonderful. I hope to see Seyka in Horizon 3. Apart from the fact that Aerial Captures are bugged for me and I can't complete them at the moment, I really like them and it's a return to form vs the Vista points. I really liked the vantage points in Zero Dawn more than the Vista points in Forbidden West. Took a while to figure out why, but it's because the vantage points told an engaging singular story, whereas the Vista points gave us lore with social media comments, which is not engaging. The Aerial captures so far is a return to telling a story from the perspective of a single individual, and it's automatically more engaging than what the Vista points were.
Okay but i do have to come back to say this. Walter is my favourite horizon villain so far. Probably cause the performance the actor gives is amazing imo
I disagree with the take that all prejudices come from fear. Bigotry exists because there are people who gain power and wealth because of it and Horizon supports also this take.
Great video as always man, I am always pleasantly suprised at just how good your videos are. Love this video and the original critique, probably my favourite reviews on YT of this game. I personally just started the DLC today and honestly, I'm just happy to have more Horizon content to explore. Anyways, keep up the great videos! ❤
I like the point you made about imitating the Elden Ring style with not marking the Aerial Captures and Delvers Trinkets. Im one of the 7 people in the world who didn't play Elden Ring, so I didnt make that connection. I just knew that it felt off, and I couldnt place why, but you nailed it. Im going to have to end up using a guide to find the Trinkets, cuz i have cleared every inch of fog, but i missed several of them, and thats just really obnoxious. Also, i just wanna say that i appreciate that you acknowledge that you had bad takes back in the day, but youve grown as a person. I try to be the same way, i think it shows maturity
Yeah I don't like how hidden the delvers trinkets are. I didn't like ERs exploration that much either because I feel it artificially wastes time. I do like that the puzzles weren't as quick with the hints or as obvious with them. They let you look around and find the solution.
Y know i find that horizon could have easily adapted to an ER style while also avoiding these problems. That being. A choice. If the game asked "would you rather have map markers? Or freely explore?" With an option between the two. It would solve most of these problems. Why force people onto map markers or off map markers? Heck go in depth. We have so many accessibility options why not make what markers do and do not show up on the map? This way. Those who want no guidance can explore the world and those who want to do it all can get those markers. With both parties being able to switch at a moments notice. I still think at its core horizon should stay as it is. But having the option to let players naturally stumble across things would be really nice. And for the most part. If your going in wanting to explore naturally and not care about getting every sidequest and trinkets and treasures etc etc. Its really nice to have.
@lazyvoid7107 To an extent, yeah. Map markers are toggleable, and the compass can be toggled on or off or dynamic as well. But they aren't entirely there for the sake of removing map markers from your experience so you can naturally stumble across things. They are more so there for players who dont want a cluttered screen for compass or if you're trying to narrow out a specific icon in the map. For example, you can't set what icons show up on the compass. So if you're just trying to navigate toward, say... a mission objective marker, if you open up that compass, then everything is revealed to you. Not just your objective. Similar issue with the map. You can pick and choose what icons on the map are present. However, it isn't a permanent setting. As everything will be back on the map once you start the game again after turning it off. What i was proposing was a system in which you could customize your icons on the compass and map permanently. To really fine tune the experience to your liking. I mean. Unless they changed that stuff recently. I haven't touched HFW in a while
I love this series and Aloy's character so much. Thanks for this video, the hard work doesn't go unnoticed. I also love your self-admitted growth, acknowledging that your older stuff is guilty of certain attitude toward representation. We love growth and I wish more people were as open too. Also keeping politics out is so silly, esp for this series. Horizon is *deeply* political in many aspects.
great analysis! Very well put, very clear, agreed! Also, whoever is saying the game just became ''woke' did not in fact play the fucking game. How did they miss the huge array of diversity in its characters and story?!
Great video James 👏 I was excited for this one, its a shame the game was review bombed for stupid reasons. So excited for Aloys next chapter, Lance will be missed.
I really hope the third game is PS5 only. By the time it releases we will be well into the PS5 generation, and that Horus fight has shown a glimpse of the powerful machines we could be going up against. If Nemesis is an AI with a sole purpose to destroy everything in its path, then it will be interesting to see what machines it can cook up.
We'll likely be at ps5 pro or plus or whatever they brand it. Horizon 3 if they want to keep up the visual fidelity won't be able to run on a ps4. ps4 is a decade old *now*, os probably 15 years old by the time horizon 3 releases. No dev with a brain is going to want to the limited by 15 year old hardware. It'd have to be capped at soemthing terrible like 720p 25fps or something smh
It’s likely to be ps5/6 especially if we are looking at the time from zero dawn to forbidden west. If it follows the same development time it is the same year of the ps6s launch time which is 2028.
I want to thank you Lazerzz for putting the stupid "gone woke" arguments in the mud because its starting to become very childish. Im trans and the second a game adds a trans character everyone seems to lose their shit. Dude these people exist lmao, especially in a realistic story you cannot have a whole cast who are just straight cis dudes because thats just not what the world is. bit off topic i know but still, love you Lazerrz
I should preface this by saying I like the DLC, I like the addition of Seyka and learning more about the Quen, and especially that Horus fight. But I feel like the DLC is almost trying to beat people over the head with the main story of Forbidden West (FW) and how it’s different from Zero Dawn (ZD). To me, ZD is a game whose story focuses on building the world, while FW focuses on building the characters more. Comparing one story to another doesn’t fully work as they are trying to do different things, and in that respect they do it amazingly. ZD builds an amazing rich world, while FW builds the characters in that world to be more interesting. But it’s pretty subtle IMO and so a lot of people missed it, which is fine. Personally I love FW’s story much more because of its focus on characters. Then, the DLC comes along and is much more brazen about how much Aloy changes actually. I mean post ZD can we imagine her loving anyone, but (again at least to me) her relationship with Seyka makes absolute sense? But it does end up feeling a bit beating over the head for those in the back who didn’t get the change of focus. Hopefully that made sense, but overall great video!
Great video once again! The analysis here was superb and really managed to talk to things I felt about this DLC too. Overall a positive addition to Horizon but at the same time it felt a bit underwhelming also, but without making me feel it was bad, soild 7/10, looking forward to more Horizon. great video!
I don't have a problem with Aloy being gay or media having gay characters. If it's written well, then that's all that matters. However, I don't think it's the right time to have Aloy in a romantic relationship with anyone. Her personal journey was learning to lean on others for support. To allow herself to open up to others emotionally and not push people away. I want her to be more vulnerable with others as it'll eventually lead to Aloy being better than Elizabet Sobeck ever was. Her being in a relationship with someone that not only she hardly knows, but the players hardly know, just feels off to me. I don't feel anything seeing the two together. Especially when I feel Aloy has much more pressing matters at hand. I guess it doesn't really matter at the end of the day, but what I do wish is that people talked more about everything else other than a gay kiss! That was literally the only thing I heard about in regards to the DLC. Aloy being gay doesn't ruin her character. She's still awesome.
I disagree with this take. She has learned to open up to people, but that involved opening up herself. She is allowing herself to feel things for people, and she suddenly meets someone who she is infatuated with. It makes sense she would have these feelings, and it even goes well as she nervously accepts this and aquardly tries to proceed. I thought it was very cute and what a young person does the first time they have real feelings.
Horizon Forbidden West and the dlc Burning Shores has some pretty hard 'Middle-Child Syndrome.' It's got improvements on what needed it from the first game, (mostly combat and visuals) but is lacking the punch in the storyline that the first game had. The full storyline in HZD made me CRY. It is a tragic story about destruction and the hope of what can come after, and the fight that it takes to get that. HFW lacked that ooomph. They spoiled their own climax by restoring GAIA mid-game, and then throwing in the Zeniths and going "nope, here's your bigger Big Bad." What would have felt better, story-wise, was Aloy running around to get all the subfunctions, getting tribal development storylines, characterization, with a final climax of having to get Heph back into GAIA. Once that was done, a good cliffhanger would have been the Appearance of the Zeniths and Varl's death, if they had to do that. Maybe they up and steal GAIA out of the RCC. NEMESIS as a final Big Bad is appropriate, but the announcement and build-up to it feels spoiled. The Zeniths strike me as more-or-less completely hapless humans who only really had money to make them important, with only had a couple geniuses to their name. Both of which have been dealt with. As horrible as NEMESIS feels, I don't think it's as dangerous as its sounds. It used what the Zeniths had against them. All Nemesis will have to work with is a bunch of tribal, pre-industrial peoples. Which, yeah, can do some damage, but is not world-ending. As long as Aloy can get Heph back into Gaia, functionally destroy all HORUS units, and make sure Nemesis can't use anything else, it's just a big ball of buzzing nano-tech. World building felt a little all over the place, but the characterization was spot-on. Aloy has opened up like a flower, regardless of the loss she suffered with Varl. I really can't wait to see her open up into her own person. Horizon 3 will most likel be a bunch of mini-maps like Burning Shores was, to incorporate as many separate places as possible and still make the world 'feel' huge. Aloy will need to coordinate with multiple tribes. Everyone she's ever met, and then some, if the Quen are as far away as we think they are. For Burning Shores specifically: It felt a little flat, story and world-wise. The Quen don't get developed as much as I'd like, and there's only so many data-points to be found that develop the world that was. There's a section of sandbars/islands in one corner of the map that looks like a train station of some sort on the ground, but beyond that, there's almost nothing there except one data-point, some grazers, and a few snapmaws. LA is one of the most diverse, populous areas of the US, let alone the world, and it was one of the few remaining cities near the end of Enduring Victory. It felt like there should have been more, 60 years of earthquakes or not. I wish there had been more of Alva, interacting with the lost half of the fleet, as the chunk of the fleet that supposedly had the royal half of things. As the last Diviner, quite possibly on that side of the Pacific, girl would have had a LOAD of authority. Right up there with Admiral Gerrit. Really wanted more from him, too. How do you lead a people possibly lost of purpose? Combat felt nice and crunchy with the new improvements, which I like to see. Though I really want flying-mounted combat. Set your mount to do a small loop of the area, only able to input dodges or flee, flight controls-wise, and then go nuts on shooting. Not like most of the machines don't have some sort of ranged attacks that can hit you in the air. Loved your critique! Thank you for your thoughts. Apologies for the wall of text, yt does not give many options in the way of formatting for an easy read.
The Zeniths had tech that made them untouchable and invincible, and had zero regard for any life not their own. They seemed plenty formidable to me, and VERY satisfying to finally kill. What awful people: the 1% with force-fields.
Yup and Frozen Wilds DLC gives that mysterious vibe while burning shores feels like a non DLC that I have a feeling was supposed to be added in forbidden West but got cut out
In regards to stealth. I do honestly think that the whole "stealth kill sometimes" machanic actually adds a layer of depth to stealth instead of hindering it. See while playing the game i found that human enemies dont actually immediately alert all the others immediately after noticing you. There is actually a buffer time before everyone is alerted because im pretty sure the enemy needs to call to the others to get their attention iirc. As welll as this. Stunning a human enemy will increase your time as they are too busy reeling from pain to alert everyone. Knowing this. Stealth goes from a simple R1 to kill everyone. To a system in which to kill stronger enemies via tskedown, you will need to execute a combo of some sort that involves the takedown. to keep them stunned long enough for you to finish them off. Its hard to really explain, but the jist of it is that you can do some pretty interesting things while still playing stealth that allow you to kill takedown surviving enemies. For example, if normal guards are giving you trouble, using hunter bow you can headshot to remove head armor then directly after doing so you can stealth takedown, followed by a spear swing which stuns the guard and allows you to quick draw your bow and plummet a final arrow into the face, getting the kill before he alerts anyone else. So its safe to say stealth is actually a bit more convoluted then you would first think
Those comments about Aloy were hilarious! ‘First The Last of Us2,’ now THIS!! Wow! A whole TWO games with gay protagonists. These people are too much. I like knowing my existence triggers them so!!
The whole discourse over the way horizon points you in a certain direction vs how Elden ring lets you explore without much guidance annoys me greatly. I get it - people want truly open world games that don't hold your hand and allow for infinite exploration. But like.. I hate those types of games. I've never been able to get through games like that because I just can't seem to understand what they're trying to get me to do, and what I should be doing next. I don't know if it's because I'm autistic and don't pick up on a lot of things normal people do, or just because I haven't found the right one, but I've never been able to finish a game like that - not a single Fallout or Elder scrolls, and believe me, I've tried. So I love that horizon really holds your hand the whole time and guides you in the direction you need to go instead of just handing you a bow, dropping you into the map, and telling you "good luck!" I really hope the third game doesn't try to reinvent how they handle story missions.
Same here. I also prefer the narrative driven open worlds to the sandboxes of Elden Ring or Zelda. Tried Skirim once and gave up after a couple of hours. Trying to complete one quest led me to five more quest givers all of which wanted me to head in different directions until I could no longer remember why I cared about the first one. Also, sandboxes don't tend to include meaningful stories/character relationships which is what I'm looking for. Funnily enough, Witcher 3 has a very similar open world design to Horizon aka not being a sandbox. However, I haven't seen many people all of a sudden calling Witcher 3 awful "because it isn't like Elden Ring".
As always, great video! I really like the way you analyse these games. I thoroughly enjoyed the DLC and I wasn’t bothered by the ‘lack of content compared to frozen wilds’ as everyone says - the character development of aloy was always the most important. They have written her character perfectly. absolutely shed a tear and cheered when we were given the option to kiss Seyka! I’m fed up of all this ‘woke’ agenda crap and the review bombing cause aloy is gay, get the heck over it. There are greater problems in this world than someone’s sexuality and it being portrayed in a game! Cannot wait for the 3rd game!
@@LazerzZ we could sit and theorise for hours of where they can go with the 3rd. I’d really like to return east to unite the tribes in the sacred lands with the west and have new areas to explore and recruit more allies.I guess the only clues we have are from the data Sylens recovered from Walter after we defeat him.
After this DLC I wanna Aloy to jump in to help leading rebellion in Quen nation. It would be a nice change of pace, because in two previous installments she fought against rebels (Shadow Carja, Regalla's forces). Fuck that authoritarian empire. Quen were gathering data of the Old Ones for centuries so, so who knows, they might have something important to defeat Nemesis. So Empire would have to fall for Aloy to get that info. And I absolutely agree with exploration. If there's collectibles to be found, I want them marked on my map, otherwise I run around casting Revelio... ups, pulsing Focus every few seconds to see if I haven't missed anything important. All and all, I cannot wait for another game. Hope Seyka will join our crew permanently. Also now I'm certain Sylens will sacrifice himself to save Aloy at some point. It will beautifully wrap up his story arc. After all, he decided to stay on Earth only because he believes in Aloy, even if he will never admit it to her (or maybe he will?).
This is one of the best best takes on Burning Shores i've seen up until now. Horizon as a whole is at the moment my second favorite fictional universe after Destiny. I usually seek out what other people think about a piece of media once i've played / watched it and the discourse about this DLC, even in places that are generally positive about the game is...wierd to me to say the least. Just stuff like "the romance is rushed" or "forced" usually ending with "but not because it's gay". From they way some people are talking about what really amounts to "I like you" "Yeah i like you too" and an optional kiss it would seem that Aloy and Seyka got married after knowing each other for about a day. That's of course overall the more reasonable take compared to the crowd who just scream woke, call Aloy ugly and decry the fall of western civilisation. The only take i kinda agree with it is that some people took Aloy as aromantic which would have been intresting. Also seeing Lance in this really hits me hard, i'm usually not really affected by celebrities dying but him being in Horizon and in Destiny since the beginning makes me just really sad knowing we'll never get a good ending for Sylens or Commander Zavala. RIP Lance
I think my only complaint about Seyloy (Seyka x Aloy) was the marketing that was so painfully obvious at the nature of their relationship. I played Burning Shores full on expecting a romance based on what was said, instead of being pleasantly surprised by it as the story progresses. Because Aloy is attracted to Seyka from the start. We don’t need much to immediately know she’s taken an interest in the Quen marine. It shows how open she’s become to people that upon meeting this strange Quen she takes a liking to her. And by the end there’s nothing more than admit those feelings. No matter the route you choose, the feelings of live are present in each one. I see you, you see me.
Even if their relationship was only dlc exclusive for some reason I’d still say that they pulled off the romance well especially with the bond they seem to immediately share. If the devs want to introduce more romance options in the third entry they need to flesh them out just as much but if they keep Seyka as the sole love interest it’d work just as well after all the dlc is only 7 hours long so they could probably flesh out Seyka and her relationship with Aloy a decent amount
The whole "wanting an antagonist that is more than just evil for evils sake" is why I like HEPH as an antagonist. HEPH has a clash of programming and directives. It knows what the purpose of Project Zero Dawn was. It knows it was about restoring the Earths Biosphere so that all life, including Humans can return. However it also notices that the very Humans it was designed to help bring back are hunting down the very machines that made it possible. It does not want to kill all humans, but it is driven to that result because it sees thousands of its children being killed for scrap. It also has a hatred towards GAIA for allowing it to happen at all. The fact that GAIA just sat there allowing these tribal humans to hunt down the machines must have made HEPH truly angry. So it tried to create deterrents to sway humanity from hunting down its children. For example the derangement and making recon and bodyguard machines. When that failed to created hunter killers. Machines like Thunderjaws, Ravagers etc but even that led to nowhere. Restricted by the cauldrons, it sought out a workaround. A way to make more advanced hunter killers. And this is where HEPH turns from antagonist to villain. Tricking CYAN into accepting a communication link so it could launch a virus to take over the Firebreak facility and turn it into a cauldron. Free from Zero Dawns limitations. Using this new cauldron to spit out Scorchers, Frostclaws, Daemonic machines (which would later become Apex variants) and the Fireclaw. Hell, its first target was on a tribe of humans that respect machines. Their entire culture is framed around the "blue light" seen in the zero dawn machines. And later in Forbidden West the very first time we see Apex machines from Aloys pov is the same scenario. A culture of humans that respect and revere machines. Those being the Utaru. Even turning one of their land-gods into a hunter killer via a repair facility. A place of rebirth and renewal for the zero dawn machines is turned into a place of death and destruction. HEPH even calls out Aloy for destroying Epsilon and I love how it calls out the FW cauldrons you have overridden when you face it again in cauldron: Gemini. Shit just got personal. In short HEPH is simply a parent that is willing to go to any lengths to protect their children. We created the monster that is HEPH. It has lost all patience, it sees humanity as a threat to life on Earth itself. And it will stop at nothing to ensure that threat is gone. Even if it means eliminating humanity altogether.
honestly i loved the dlc, the story and Seyka really made me see how far Aloy has come as a character. And of course i love Sam Witwer lol. the one thing i think i was let down on was the actual layout of the map. I didn't expect L.A. to be just islands. I expected something more akin to The city in I am Legend (obvi not as big, maybe some of it is underwater for the waterwing section).
50:14 thank you so much it was fantastic to hear your perspective and helpful, I was not sure how I truly felt about this DLC,but after watching you it put a lot of concerns into perspective, thank you
I enjoyed this dlc, wished it was longer though lol. Alloy actually opening up and growing emotionally was fairly well done. And finding someone to connect with is 100% what that character needs. Also the loss of Lance Redik sucksy
Great analysis! I had some lingering feelings of disappointment after the DLC that I couldn't quite put my finger on, but you voiced them perfectly. I also really appreciate your tangents on diversity and "wokeness", so thank you for that. It's been disheartening to see community members and friends turn sour so quickly based on a single aspect of the DLC that I think fits the story and characters perfectly.
Good video, I enjoyed it. Nuanced and detailed, with you own personal takes mixed in. Good effort! PS: I had the Shadow of the Colossus OST 'opened way' and 'despair-filled farewell' blasting on my speakers while fighting the Horus
I'll jump the gun and directly talk about Aloy and Seyka. I liked Seyka from the start. To me she seemed a Quen version of Aloy, and that immediately clicked in my brain that their was gonna be a relationship, wasn't surprised when the ending came. I did reject her though choosing the "brain" option. Looking online, I kinda get why people are complaining about it. Seyka is a completely new character and their OTP is not getting fulfilled. Some are also saying that it was too quick, to those I can only say that Aloy hasn't settled down and started living with her, in Horizon 3 both could split because of reasons. Loved the DLC! And largely agree with most of the points you made.
Most people that are complaining are really just complaining because Aloy likes women, which anyone with half a braincell would've known was the case from even as early as Zero Dawn just by the way she acts around men vs women, especially when they're flirtatious with her. That said, I understand why some may feel it's too much too soon, but I also feel it's really not much at all, this is the only point in her life where it's made sense for her to be able to embrace feeling this way about another person and all it was ended up being a strong connection and a kiss if you choose that option, like you said she's not settling down and starting a family, she just felt strong feelings of attraction toward someone for really the first time ever and that's a special moment of characterisation for her. Glad you enjoyed the DLC and the video, thanks for the comment!
@@LazerzZ The way this was introduced does leave me questioning why they did it this way. First, it's in a DLC that some people can't play (PS 4 owners). Second, they added it right at the end of the DLC where it would have no impact on the main story and finally it was done via one of the "three choices" widgets - so far all they've been for is to change the dialoge the NPC says - the next installment won't know which choice the player made so why bother? Geurrilla are going to have to decide how the relationship plays out in the next installment. If they're serious then they should have done this in FW with one of the existing characters (Talanah would be my choice, although I do lile Vanasha's sarcastic sense of humour). The cynic in me thinks Geurrilla did this for a bit of free publicity (after all, we all know what happened when TLoU Pt 2 did it) - I guess we'll just have to wait a few years to see what happens. Let's hope that whatever choice Geurrilla make, they do it properly.
@@Weissman111 It was "added" "at the end" of the DLC because the story of the progression of the relationship is shown along the way as the DLC story progresses. The payoff for players is that it Just Makes Sense after what we've seen that Aloy and Seyka have a relationship.
@@dondumitru7093 I think you missed my point - putting it at the point means it has no impact on anything other than the cut-scene at the end - the decision you make won't carry over to the next installment so why do it this way? Seems to me that the DLC was (a) a showcase for the PS5 and (b) a way to get some free publicity, knowing full well the "gaming" media would latch on to it in a second. What's more important is what they do with it in the next game (I guess we'll be able to tell by wacthing what Kylie Page is up to over the next few years).
On the topic of Navigation, I think the pullcaster is probably the most lacking. Climbing points were very liberally strewn across the open world, but grapple points still only exist in very explicitly designed locations. You can tell you are approaching a battle arena or collectible location by two things: The lack of climbing points, and the addition of grapple points. I wish the pullcaster was more applicable for general traversal.
Wow, I'm blown away! You’ve earn another subscriber. This video was absolutely fantastic. Your insightful analysis and critiques are just spot on! Thank you for delving deep into the characters, particularly Aloy and Seyka's relationship. You hit the mark perfectly! It's disheartening to see some people dismissing the DLC or Aloy herself simply because of her LGBTQ+ identity. Like you, I eagerly anticipate seeing more of Seyka and Aloy's evolving bond. People simply need to mature and recognize the intricate masterpiece behind this story. Not to mention Aloy’s amazing character growth.
Thank you so much! Really appreciate that. I have a real fondness for Horizon that I think just translates well into the videos I make on it. I look forward to talking about it more in the future, as well as of course the next major game.
I’ll add to the section around 19:00 regarding the removal of the “collectathon” nature the main games admittedly had, the edge elden ring and other FromSoft titles have are the level and world design. Playing through those games the environment tells a story and seeing things out of place or similar to other locations of interest will cue to the player using the visuals (and sometimes audio like the walking bell things in elden ring) where Horizon doesn’t have that set up. Adding those to the next game may help: like old world ruins that look similar or have the same company sign linked to a collectible quest so that if the player sees it they have an idea that there’s probably stuff in there?
It's a very modestly priced DLC, and the final Horus fight required pushing the engine a lot. Is there anyone anywhere that complains about performance problems with the DLC? The thing is damn gorgeous and runs butter smooth.
@@dondumitru7093 Yeah, length-wise, I think it's pretty decent. The main 5 quests are 4 hours and there's side content on top of that. It's not as long as Witcher 3 Blood & Wine but it IS longer than, for example: Mass Effect 3 Omega - 2 hours with no side content for $15. AC3 King Washington - 4.5 hours with mediocre side content for $30.
I had never seen your channel and this video was very insightful, love it! makes me think about how every narrative is built from the perspective of the "self", and the "self" needs to have the "other" to form its identity. maybe some people are uncomfortable with a queer protagonist because they realize the story is based on the perspective of someone they see as the "other". and that might feel unfair and weird to these people. I guess it's the fear of the unknown, as you said in your video.
I know you said you'd like diferent maps, but how would you feel with companion fights like in Mass Effect and Dragon Age?? As you remember, in the ending of Forbidden West, Aloy sent her friends to diferent parts of the world to call for help and to warn of the impending doom, so it is safe to assume that some of the Corporations mentioned by Sylens are where Aloy's friends are!! Companion fights that, later could be turned into co-op...
Oh my fucking god the anti anti woke bit here was exactly what i was thinking for a few weeks lol. People should not confuse "woke" with poor execution.
Absolutely love your explanation of how the game's checklist design doesn't work with the more explorative design of something like Elden Ring. My hope would be that for the next game they create a world that is more worth exploring and not just filled in with checklist content. The best solution would be to have that design in place but also allow people to turn on map icons should they want them.
I agree with you about a story being bad because it is bad. But saying "what is even woke" it discredits you. You know what woke is. Almost everyone knows what it is. You acting like you don't know really makes your point invalid because how are you arguing against something you don't know. Mind you, I agree with how alloy was written.
The question wasn’t a genuine question. I obviously know what people are saying when they call things “woke” as I go onto discuss. The question was meant to poke fun at it being a stupid term that has lost all genuine meaning in place of just being mad at things that aren’t straight white make centric, it’s a criticism without value or substance.
Will, I must note you didn't define "woke", and I think that is because you know everyone has their own definition. It is a BS term that means nothing. You agree with how Aloy is written, and yet you will find many comments even here saying Aloy is written poorly and is too "woke" *manic laughter* Give us all a break. It means whatever you want it to mean. I don't like this so it's work. be that women, or homosexuals, or transgender, or people of colour, or social equality, or, or, or, or. Do I need to go on? You won't agree at all, but that is because of how out of touch you and so many others are. You have this selfcentric focus that can never see anything outside what you care about. I hope one day you "wake up" and realize how silly you really are.
I love horzion zero dawn the frozen wilds forbidden west and burning shores. I hope horzion 3 in the future is single player only and a ps5 only game in the future.
So refreshing to watch a deeper analysis of the DLC instead of the usual stats/numbers minmaxing. Also totally support you on the monologue in the middle of this video. I’m sick of these bigots giving it a 0/10 just because of the ending scene.
Honestly... I've kinda lost how much I cared for this game. First one was awesome. But the second one could just NOT make me care less. And now it's just getting me more annoyed.
Interesting, I'm sorry to hear that. I found the sequel to be a really compelling continuation of a narrative I enjoyed, maybe with time you might warm to it.
@@LazerzZ oh no I played everything forbidden west back and yet it was only in forbidden west that the story felt... Bland. I knew varl was going to die once his girl said she was having a kid it's a story trope, I figured that the final boss would also have feelings for aloy it just got...predictable. it doesn't feel like Horizon Zero Dawn anymore. I'm not a big fan of how the story is going. If anything Ted shoulda been the final boss of it all but he's dead. As for the big relationship...eh. Kinda annoying. I haven't played the dlc or heard anything besides this video. If it is legitimately good then I'll be much more inclined to play it and even platinum it. But it just sucks. For me at least. I respect everyone that enjoys it. Just don't give me any hate for a different opinion. Edit: I never felt invested in it like I did the original. I felt bored of it once the girl who lived in the giant tree found feelings for Varl. Think it's Varl. Anyways it felt empty.
@@darkmatter-mc5iv Zo revealed she was pregnant AFTER Varl died... So you couldn't have known "Varl was going to die" for that reason. And Zo is great.
Okay, you've earned a subscribe from me. Fantastic video. It's great to see someone who's willing to express how they've evolved in their ideologies over the years. I think what made me annoyed initially about Aloy-Seyka is that I had been hoping for Aloy-Talanah. But after going through the story a second time, I realized just how much value Seyka brought to Aloy's character growth. It was absolutely beautiful after I gave it just a little bit of thought. And I don't want to take away any credit from you for calling Aloy's orientation in the main game, I do feel like she was already quite queer coded in Zero Dawn. About the game itself, some of the movement issues you mentioned didn't show up for me, probably because I played on PC with a mouse and Azeron Cyborg keypad. I almost completely agree about the Horus battle. It really felt like a classic boss fight from some of the best video games of my childhood (Ganondorf from Ocarina of Time comes to mind). The only issue was that I struggled way too much with the waves of energy in the room as I was trying to take down Londra himself inside the Horus.
I 100 percented Zero Dawn. I stumbled upon this game by accident at the computer club, and year later this was the first disk to come with my own ps4. I was enthralled by the story, finding more excuses to come back to this game one more time. What if I replay the game on ultra hard? What if I get all the collectables? What if I complete all side quests? Needless to say, I've been stalking the GameStop for the Forbidden West as soon as I heard the sequel was due to release. The sequel, however, left me underwhelmed. I started the game on the hardest difficulty, scavenging the world for resources and collextables, picking the fights with the toughest machines. The game became a blur of shapes and dialogues with a singular goal of getting better gear, better coils, better loot, better skills. Fast forward to the beginning of the June, 2024. I don't have a ps5, so I've hever heard about the Burning Shores and stumbled upon it by accident. I watched a walkthrough on TH-cam. I was left bewildered. " When did Aloy become so open? How is she making the moves first? Why us this Seika girl so damn irritating? They fell for eachother way too fast. " But then I watched your videos and realised that the way I've been playing the sequel was fundamentally wrong. I was trying to one up myself from the past, but the past me never started ZD with a goal to become the best. He simply found more ways to enjoy the game he loved for the story. The story that I've neglected. These videos made me rethink the ways I've been treating my favourite franchise and notice a few unchecked biases that were feeding on my ignorance. I think the most negative ( and I mean without any constructive feedback ) reviews came from the people with similar gaming experience like mine. God forbid, I fall into the same echo chamber with them, so I'm glad to finally stick my head out of my ass. The purpose of this lengthy paragraph is simple: I want to thank you for rekindling my true love for this franchise. It has a special place in my life and I almost let it drown. I'm going to replay ZD and FW, this time, for the story ( and hey, might lower normal difficulty for the story one if I feel I'm spiralling back ).
Hey Lazzer. Recent subscriber here and loving the videos (specially the critique on GoW Ragnarok), but I'd like to offer some pushback on the Critical Drinker and the "woke" thing. He recently (couple of weeks or months, maybe?) published a video on the topic, and it seemed to me his vision is the same as yours (that is, that the term has been thrown around so often -- and at times in a baseless fashion -- that it ends up making any conversation sterile). All the best!
I can't say I really feel I agree with Critical Drinker on a lot of things, but there are certainly points we do hold similar viewpoints on, and sure, I agree, "woke" has become a term that it totally devalued. When I used it in my Saints Row video, I didn't really mean it in the way it's used most commonly these days, but most people didn't realise that and lumped me in with that crowd, which did suck. Just the nature of language I supposed, words change their meaning and you have to adapt to that. Thanks for the comment!
Guerrilla went all out with the Horus fight. The first section where we have to sneak around while avoiding the tentacles searching for us was genuinely scary. The first phase of the actual fight was tough but still really cool and the scale of it was awesome. The second phase was just plain fun. There weren’t any gimmicks or such and it was just super fun. The final phase was a great callback and improvement on Erik’s first boss fight at the hades proving lab. Guerrilla has been stepping up their boss fights in this game. This is such an improvement over the deathbringers from Zero Dawn. I thought Tilda’s boss fight was awesome but Londra is so many steps ahead
Great video James! As alway- uh nevermind... Anyway, I was only able to watch Burning Shores as I don't have a PS5, but I absolutely adore the little narrative we've been given, and the final boss fight looks like it would be tremendous to play. I also wanted to say that my dad has always said to me "It takes just as much effort to make bad food as it does to make good food." I would say the exact same applies here with diverse television, and I cannot wait for RTD to give some minority groups the representation they deserve
I simply disagree with everything, the DLC for me felt like a forced wanna-be pseudo romance and another generic boss fight the type we should have got in the final game not a DLC to fight a metal devil and of course the evil white male villain. Boring as hell. Hollow as F.
I dont really care about the gay stuff, the representation that exists in this game is cool, because its well written. What i dont like is changing sexuality or etni of existing characters, like they do on movies and tv shows. Sylens is a great character and the proof that you can create a great new character.
Personally I see things more from a game perspective. I don't believe games need to be movies or books. That emotions and characters drive a game forward. It's the adventure itself. And in terms of that the DLC does a couple things very well that a DLC for an open game should do. It expands on an already meaty game with a worthwhile addition, rounding out said game. And it builds a more satisfying finale on top of the base games finale. At the end of a game's DLC cycle it should feel more complete. More whole and as if the missing elements have been put back into it. It shouldn't be a game on itself rather fused with the base game to complete the final definitive edition of said game. I think this DLC did that rather well.
Doesn’t matter (and I say that with joy seeing the series’ depictions on love ☺️) but I felt Aloy’s feelings, with how they developed over the course of the DLC, could be viewed as her being Demisexual, which (and please correct me if there are others here or in other series) is pretty rad
One thing that this dlc made me hopeful for in a third game is a range of different melee weapons that have different elemental affinities. I liked the ability to use capsules to add an element type to the spear, but I don't think it wae worth taking up more space on an already cluttered kit menu for an element that isn't permanently on the spear and is easier to apply at range, so I'm hoping that in the third game we can just change melee weapons altogether
Yeah that's certainly an interesting point, I do wonder if they might delve into that side of combat a little bit more. I doubt it'll ever become a huge primary focus since ranged combat is sort of Horizon's whole shtick, but definitely adding even more variety and depth than FW would be interesting. Another cool idea could potentially be if in a side game, or spin off or even in the MMO, there's actually an entirely melee focussed combat system, something that is totally different from how Aloy fights, I'd love to see that if they ever wanted to do more stories with a new character in Horizon's world, or in the MMO like I said.
Really REALLY ? So instant of something with Hephaestus or Cyan you prefer this . The one that have 3 side missions practically no new machines except the frog and his eggs , Aloy is not even close to her character ( Talanah. When you find a person that you will love you will understand Aloy . This is not for me ) and a map that barely have anything in . Please don´t tell me the Horus the Horus is not a machine is a boss fight . A dlc that is not even a bare bone to what Frozen Wild´s was . Don´t make me say how we go there . Frozen Wilds was one with the map and in this crap we go with a cutscene .R.I.P. Lance Reddick they did even give you a role in this dlc and after i have play it i can really say it was for the best .
as much as i saw the romance thing coming i was still holding out hope to romance errand, they were the source of so much growth for each other and watching errand basically bulldoze through aloys emotional distance was so satisfying. but this is still good.
Everyone should have known aloy was gay at a minimum. Everyone in both games has been hitting on her non-stop. she found someone she likes and that's cute af (she may have like avad a little but not that much )
I'd love tonsee variants of the Spectre drone used by Nemesis. Cuz it comes from the same texhbase as the Zeniths it'd make sense fornit to use the same servitors, and improve on them. So we might see improved and more dynamic versions of the Spectre and Drone, maybe even some automaton versions of like Spectre Prime.
After Zero Dawn and Forbidden West I was pretty sure they had made Aloy ace/aro, with a tiny possibility she might be gay, a genetic tendency in her DNA. I love Seyloy but they missed an opportunity to rep our ace/aro brothers and sisters.
About collecting the dino’s and playing the game at the end being pointless: That’s the point. We (21st century world citizens) are accumilating ship like crazy while there is no reward. (Yeah, yeah, I know. Not everybody) NFTs, sneakers, MtG cards, pokemon cards, fabric, shoes, cloths, figurines, swarovski etc etc
I have to strongly disagree with the criticism of the Horizon games' exploration ethos. Not every game needs to be like Elden Ring, or Skyrim (which has a fully revealed map but no markers of anything until you find them). I thought Forbidden West got the balance just right with making each Tallneck something different and more in depth than in Zero Dawn where it was just a matter of "find the jump spot". Hell, The Frozen Wilds gave a hint of how Tallnecks would be handled in the next game by making it more of a task to handle it. I would also like to point out that I have *never played an Ubisoft game* and laying criticisms at the feet of one game that "it's just like this other game" completely fails to understand the notion that some gamers might be *very* interested in Horizon, but not in Assassin's Creed, like myself, and so have never been exposed to a game mechanic analogous to the Tallneck. I had never experienced anything like it, so when I played Zero Dawn, then Forbidden West it felt like a well executed and interesting exploration mechanic. Doing something some other game has done, but adapting it for your game in a way that works well within the confines of your game should not be something to be criticised unless it's done badly or feels out of place, neither of which can be leveled at Forbidden West, or even Zero Dawn.
39:14 I write this as a straight white male. You are turbo spitting facts bro. I genuinely don't know why people got mad at Aloy for being lesbian when Sobeck being one is established in the base game and they share 99,48% (or whatever the Eleuthia cradle door said in HZD) of genetic code. I love that twitter shit on this DLC and called it horrendous only because of this 5 minute interaction when THERE IS A LITERAL FIGHT WITH A HORUS BEFORE ALL OF THIS!!! Are these people mental? XD
It's nice to see the life lessons she learned from the base game in this DLC. You see her not as shut off emotionally, she doesn't scuff off hugs, she reaches out and grabs peoples shoulders to comfort them, the kiss etc.
The mini monologue about wokeness and representation was a perfect encapsulation of how I feel as well couldn't have said it any better. TH-cam needs more level headed people like you.
My Girl Aloy really showing character growth. From the girl who wants to save the world but at the same time wants to keep the people at arms lenght to actually being able to hug or kiss them. She really surpassed Elizabeth at this point.
Not really. The only development was made in the firat game, which had mjles better story and character writting. The sequel does everything else way better but the story took a nosedive and character development is non existent except for Varl, whuch we lose anyways.
And they made Erend a sad drunk lol
I hope the TV show elaborates on Sobeck
eh, the kiss felt really russhed and undeserved
@@Ingisen theres a tv show?
@@supercharged5-39 Netflix are doing one and based on their past history they'll probably screw it up.
Burning Shores was so good, I really enjoyed it. I really loved Aloy and Seyka's interactions, that final fight was epic, the visuals were amazing, I also loved that Aloy could just kinda let loose a little bit more. Seeing more of the Quen was really fun, they keep getting more and more interesting. I LOVED the new ability where you could ropecast to a downed enemy, that was so much fun. I don't give ratings on games but if I were to rate it I would give it a solid 8.5, would have been 9 if it was longer. Horizon 3 can't happen soon enough, I can't wait to unite the tribes and take on Nemesis.
Finally a refreshing and intelligent analysis of burning shores. THANK YOU FOR THIS!!!!!
Definitely among the best reviews for BS so far
I liked Walter, especially after I realized he was starting a cult. It was better than just him being evil by killing everyone. Brainwashing them, both actually and through the cult, was one of my favorite moments.
The story kinda feels like a jab at Hollywood. A self-absorbed movie producer, rising stars that get abused and groomed and even a goddamn cult. That's Hollywood 101.
This man makes a 4hr critique and like 2 weeks later the absolute mad lad makes a 1hr critique, you can name another creator with level of dedication and constant quality.
Hugely appreciate that, I did finish this one up way faster than I thought I would to be fair, I think my time away in Italy rejuvenated me a bit, I was ready to get stuck back, right away!
You should check out Arlo on youtube, he also makes great long-form game critiques
23:44 Yes! I remember I audibly let out a "wow" when I noticed the NPC with vitiligo. I've always found Horizon's inclusivity to be really refreshing, especially in the sequel where we come across so many unique NPCs of different races, genders, ages, sexualities, and with different body types and features. It's just nice to see representation of the kinds of people you will see on the street or in your day-to-day. Seeing Horizon (a franchise that was already ahead of the curve with rep in 2017) make effort to be even more inclusive through the NPC with vitiligo felt so special, yet honestly so in-character for Guerilla.
This particular aspect of the Horizon universe lore was so lovely to hear you interpret, especially as it's something most people tend to overlook. I'm glad you took the time to notice and appreciate it!
I asked my wife her thoughts on maybe an accident that would make Sylens mute or change his voice in some way. I just don't want him needlessly killed off or even just be off screen.
This was $20 well spent. I'm happy with what I got. I made a Reddit post the other day (which I put a lot of thought into) about why I like Seyka and Aloy's relationship so much and I was glad to see that many others agreed. We see Aloy discovering she can have these feelings for people. Ones she never thought she would. The beach scene in particular was the most "out there" clue that this is something more. She says Seyka is great and suddenly gets all panicky. She stands up and the look of on her face says, "OK, why I just said that. Why do I feel this way??"
Also after the kiss, if you go back and sit with Varl, Aloy will make a "confession" that she really likes Seyka and never thought she'd have feelings for someone like this before and that she's unsure if it will be something more.
@@LeeEverett1 This exactly. Someone was telling me that because there was a choice it's not canon. Which is complete crap. She tells Varl that she cares deeply for Seyka regardless of choice. Even if you turn Seyka down, she admits to Varl that he would tell her to pursue it, and that he's probably right.
I really liked the moment after the Zeth fight, when Aloy suddenly realises that she's mirroring Seyka's emotions and she's completely thrown off balance by it. I thought it was a brilliant way to set up that beach scene. It's one simple line of dialogue and yet it reveals so much about where Aloy's head is at and what it means.
@@joedotphp the only choice I see here is whether Aloy openly admits her feelings or bottles them up like she did in the beginning. So yeah, I’m team Seyloy all the way.
@@joedotphp The choices are honestly just her accepting her feelings or her deflecting her feelings and it's not subtle either. It's not a binary choice about whether she likes her, only a choice of how she expresses said attraction, which is infinitely better.
Rewatching the footage of their final dialogue with Sylence made me realise, that the markings on the holo-globe that he shows while discussing the corporations, are all located near Seattle and in Canada. And if it's only their HQs, we are still probably going to go there and investigate. There is only four, because technically ASF's HQ located in Maker's End, that was present in the first game and they've already checked it. Going north also makes sense thematically, because the Claim and Ban-Ur are located there and Aloy would probably want to unite as many tribes as possible by travelling to their capitols. Also Elysium is located somewhere in the US territory, a few miles near Gaya Prime (probably north) and I REALLY doubt, that they won't show it at some point. I still do want to see multiple small open worlds, that you can switch between with fast travel, because it would be refreshing to the series and I have no clue, how they'll let us see Quen's Great Delta without it, but if it'll again stick to the one big open world formula for some reason, then my bets are on NORTH...)))
P.S. Thanks for the video, Lazz!!!)
I did notice that too, but sort of wrote it off in my mind as if it wasn't related to what he was talking about, like it was just a random hologram rather than one that was directly marking the weapons manufacturers, although I that was more me being wilfully ignorant than anything else because I just love the idea of several smaller open worlds across the globe. It'll be interesting to see what they do nonetheless and I really would LOVE to see the Quen's Empire, after all this talk in FW, I need that.
Glad you enjoyed the video, thanks for the comment!
Visiting the Claim is definitely wanted
@@kza1604 I hope, they'll give us as much Brin back, as possible, because I was hoping to see him in the DLC, so they owe me!!!)
@@LazerzZ I can't see any reason why missions to the HQ's can't result in follow up missions to specific labs in other maps. It's not like R&D materials are going to be stored in the HQ's themselves. That would make no sense. They're far more likely to be scattered all over the world in different facilities that have to be identified from data found in the HQ's.
Can you tell I want several smaller maps too?
Also, I really, really want to attach a small shelter to the back of an over-ridden Stormbird and fly across the ocean.
I don’t really believe multiple small open worlds would work well unless they were somehow organically traveled too. Valhalla tried multiple areas with its atlas feature but with its focus on England it just made the other areas feel empty
One thing about the Spectre Gauntlet is that if you tag a point on a machine with R1 and hit that point with your railgun, the damage to the machine is pretty heavily increased. Was super useful in the final battle.
There's also apparently a shrapnel mechanic. So like let's do you tag the tail of the thunderjaw and then shoot down the length of it's body you get the ticks from the railgun, the bonus damage from the mark and then more bonus damage from shrapnel. It's how a lot of people are one shotting apex's on ultra hard. But no one knows if it's an actual mechanic or a bug because it's pretty busted lol
I absolutely loved Burning Shores. It's a very nice addition to Aloy's character arc and I seriously cannot wait to see how the third game will turn out. It sucks that it's being review bombed for "being woke by making aloy gay" because if they actually played the game and looked deeper, the signs have all been there since the first game. How people let a character's sexual orientation ruin a magnificent franchise for them, I have no idea.
I really liked that the romance was reserved for the dlc. I have always been afraid that a romance plot line would derail Aloy’s story, and horizon has never been a ‘romance.’ However, in this side chapter, they were able to really focus (no pun intended) on Aloy and Seyka’s relationship without taking away from the overall story and, like you, I didn’t realize how much I needed that (and Aloy gay panicking is so endearing and fun to witness). Great critique as always!
"put a chick in it and make it gay".
It derailed Aloy's story right at the end, making all that went before it extremely stupid. I'll never buy a Horizon game ever again.
Okay.
@@robbie_good, we don’t want you in the community 😂
@@robbie_Dont act like youve never searched up lesbian porn and wacked your little johnson to it
Happy to see you firing on all cylinders lately, you had me worried when you were freaking out about your videos not getting as many views. Congratulations on the recent successes, the content is really good
thankfully I got through my TH-camr Existential Crisis™ 😂 Appreciate your support a ton!
@@LazerzZ Hopefully you'll still focus on quality over quantity.
Also, I appreciate you don't fish for attention: saying things like "hit that like, subscribe, notification, etc"
TH-camrs who do this piss me off to no end
I'm definitely on board with the Seyka romance and I hope the third game either explores that more or maybe even experiment with a romance function where the player can choose.
IMO Aloy's character has had something lacking about her, and seeing her be vulnerable like this makes her more human which I appreciate.
I mean, she didn't need romance to be a whole person. Plenty of people out there simply don't experience attraction, whether sexual, romantic, or both. They aren't lacking something about them.
IMO Aloy felt complete - just introverted, guarded, and understandably standoffish given her childhood as an outcast. We're just seeing her open up around more people as she learns there are people she can trust as genuine allies.
I absolutely love all your Horizon videos. You have the platform, the words and the skills to show how wonderful they are! And almost always you speak the same sentiments I feel about them but am never able to articulate. So thank you!! Your part about Aloy's character arc and her romance with Seyka is the same conclusion I came to on my own while playing it but I had to talk sense into myself about it. While playing and noting her obvious crush I remember thinking "I dunno, I liked Aloy being a lone warrior." But then the more I played, the more I thought about FW and the more I noted how happy Aloy was to have Seyka with her, I realized I was projecting and that her character journey was never about staying alone but instead about embracing companionship with her found family. And what better way to further that journey than to give her a romantic partner. It was SO masterfully done that I felt dumb for having questioned it at first. I can't wait for the 3rd game to further Seyka and Aloy as characters and also their relationship. (As a side note I do really hope Sylens continues to be a character in the third game despite the actor's passing and that they're able to recast him. He's my favorite character, for one, and it'd be heartbreaking to see them write him out after the set up at the end of Burning Shores for his character growth. While no one can replace Lance I think the audience getting to see the end of his character arc would've been what he wanted.)
40:32 Exactly. Rey isn’t a bad character because she’s a woman. She’s a bad character because she was written incredibly shallow with no character flaws & easily able to pick up on the Force, something that Luke struggled in but eventually mastered. This is especially telling with some of the other well written female characters in Star Wars like Princess Leia, Ahsoka Tano, & Nightsister Merrin.
Aloy isn’t shallow & has flaws, including being incredibly stubborn & constantly comparing herself to Elisabet instead being her own person.
I'm glad that aloy has a girlfriend/partner now but my god I'm scared of the emotional weapon that creates in the next game
Especially if she’s somehow killed off like Varl was. Man, Aloy would fall apart like a broken building. (Pun not intended)
@@redgambitt_8260 Hard to say if that's the tone the makers are going for. Varl's death is very much a tonal exception for the purposes of story, as nothing else in either Zero Dawn or Forbidden West indicates that direction, but yes that is a potential Sword of Damocles that has been introduced.
@@TheKazragore It _is_ hard to say for the reasons you said, but now that we’ve seen Guerrilla show us a death of an important character, it indicates they’re at least comfortable enough with the idea of killing off someone as meaningful to Aloy as him.
Not only that, but we’ve also seen the stakes get raised from “OK, Hades, an advanced AI, has to be defeated to save our homeland” to “OK, Far Zenith, an extremely technologically advanced and biologically immortal civilization has to be defeated to save our planet” in 1 game.
Now the stakes are “OK, Nemesis, a rogue entity that completely scared Far Zenith shitless and may or may not be destructible, has to somehow be stopped to save the planet and humanity”. When things get as volatile and as dangerous as that, I don’t know if there’s any telling of what will happen to the main cast, let alone any of the newer characters we’ve met, including Seyka. I’d hope for Aloy’s sake she’s not, but it’s not up to me how her story unfolds.
I am a huge fan of the Horizon games and have been since the release of HZD. I love these games, the story, characters, visuals and the machines. I have more than 500+ hours played in the first game and 350+ hours in this game. So its fair to say that I was more than exited to play the DLC. The DLC for me was very good. I love the new map with the new visuals for the PS5, secrets and the new machines. The things that disappointed me was that their wasn’t a tallneck, no hunting ground, no new strike board, no way to show where the collectibles are located on the map and no new training pit. Which if you look at the Frozen wilds DLC their where a new hunting ground and a new tallneck. I feel like in my opinion that these things are essential to Horizon and to not include them in this DLC was a bit of a mistake on Gurrillas part. But if I put aside these things the DLC is a masterpiece. When the DLC started I instantly felt like the machines here were way stronger and harder to beat than in the main game. I belive this was because there where more apex variants and that new machines had so much more health than I had anticipated. This made the game for the first time in forever hard for me (I only play on ultra hard) which both made the game a little bit infuriating but mostly fun and enjoyable. Another thing I love about this DLC is the story that it tells. I was expecting a story that would focus more on the the things like the main game did, go here, find this, solve that and so on. Which it also did but I felt like the real focus in this story was (as you said) character development. Finally we get to see a part of Aloy that we haven’t seen before. Aloy has always been the person that is independet, capible, strong and smart but in this story with Seyka we get to see Aloy nervous, a bit insecure and hesitant in how she acts and talks with Seyka. I thought that the thing that I would love the most about this DLC was the big fight with the horus but this great story combined with the storytelling made me forget about that and just focus on the things that was happening infront of me. I must say that the fight with the horus was a blast and really made me understand why we had to wait for more than six years to finally face it in battle, the wait was worth it in my opinion. But the real thing that blew me away was the ending with Sayka (spoilers!!!) were Aloy opens up to Seyka about her feelings towards the Nora and what an affect their treatment had on her. Here we really get to see and hear from Aloy herself how she has developed as a character throughout the hole story in both games. As if that wasn’t enough we also get to see Aloy show an emotion which she hasn’t show or felt before with Seyka. I once again love this and for Aloy to finally have someone who she likes more is just the thing that made the perfect sense to bring in to the game in order to further develop her character. I must say I was worried that Gurrilla was bringing in this love aspect to a game where this isn’t the main thing so to say. I liked that a game was made where romantic love wasn’t involved with the main character because Aloy didn’t find that important because she had bigger things to take care of. But I apploud Gurrilla for bringing it in now in a way that doesn’t feel forced in a way that it does in other games. Guerrilla knew that this is what Aloy nedeed next in her story and that they had to make it both beliveble and in a way realistic. To which I say the did and succeded with. I absolutely love this game and world that Guerrilla has created and all of this really shows (what you said again) that Guerrilla really love this game and story too and knows what to do in order to make a story both believable and amazing at the same time. (Sorry about the essay but once I started writing I couldnt stop). I also wanna thank you LazerzZ for making these videos about Horizon I could watch them for hours on repeat (and have done sometimes).
I agree with you that the lack of some side-content to be expanded on was a little disappointing. Having no new Strike pieces for the new machines is a bit sad and no hunting grounds is just straight up a mistake to me. The lack of Tallnecks seems to be trying to adjust to fan feedback, only in a not great way. Hopefully they fix it in the third game. Tallnecks are not like Ubisoft towers, the great thing about them in Forbidden west was that they were like mini-puzzles. Getting on top for each of them was unique (unless you waited till the end of the game to get a flying machine to control lol).
one thing i did find that was really neat was that they put a grave piece for Lance Reddick next to one of the aerial capture in the northwest-ish side of the map, was really nice when i accidentally found it
Oh that’s super interesting, I had no clue. I’ll have to go see it when I next play.
Can you specify?
@@christopherbronson3275 I recommend going to the Burning Shores Interactive Map and turning everything off except for miscellaneous (Under "Other"), should be much easier then me trying to explain it lol
So let's get this straight. This story features a narcissistic movie producer, rising stars that get groomed and a goddamn cult that promises "ascension."
I see Hollywood has not really changed after 1000 years. :P
I really liked Londra. To be honest I look at the present day ultra rich individuals in our time, and I see Londra as a charicature of that. It's not subtle, but Sam Witwer just looks like he's having a lot of fun with the character. And so from that perspective I enjoyed Londra.
With the Horizon games I feel that antagonists often represent some sort of theme or symbolism. The real depth comes from the protagonists and how they deal with the actions of the antagonists past or present. I think there's a tendency to expect antagonists to always have tons of depth, when it's also perfectly fine for them to just be assholes. Because those kinds of people do exist. But I digress.
Aloy's progression throughout Forbidden West and into Burning Shores is so, so, so satisfying. Her interaction with Gildun was really wholesome, and the chemistry with Seyka was wonderful. I hope to see Seyka in Horizon 3.
Apart from the fact that Aerial Captures are bugged for me and I can't complete them at the moment, I really like them and it's a return to form vs the Vista points. I really liked the vantage points in Zero Dawn more than the Vista points in Forbidden West. Took a while to figure out why, but it's because the vantage points told an engaging singular story, whereas the Vista points gave us lore with social media comments, which is not engaging. The Aerial captures so far is a return to telling a story from the perspective of a single individual, and it's automatically more engaging than what the Vista points were.
Oh my god I never figured out why Londras voice sounded so familiar and charismatic. Sam Witwer. Gosh I'm stupid not to notice it😅
Okay but i do have to come back to say this. Walter is my favourite horizon villain so far. Probably cause the performance the actor gives is amazing imo
I disagree with the take that all prejudices come from fear. Bigotry exists because there are people who gain power and wealth because of it and Horizon supports also this take.
Great video as always man, I am always pleasantly suprised at just how good your videos are. Love this video and the original critique, probably my favourite reviews on YT of this game.
I personally just started the DLC today and honestly, I'm just happy to have more Horizon content to explore.
Anyways, keep up the great videos! ❤
Thanks a bunch! I really appreciate the kind words, hope you enjoy the DLC 👌
I like the point you made about imitating the Elden Ring style with not marking the Aerial Captures and Delvers Trinkets. Im one of the 7 people in the world who didn't play Elden Ring, so I didnt make that connection. I just knew that it felt off, and I couldnt place why, but you nailed it. Im going to have to end up using a guide to find the Trinkets, cuz i have cleared every inch of fog, but i missed several of them, and thats just really obnoxious.
Also, i just wanna say that i appreciate that you acknowledge that you had bad takes back in the day, but youve grown as a person. I try to be the same way, i think it shows maturity
Yeah I don't like how hidden the delvers trinkets are. I didn't like ERs exploration that much either because I feel it artificially wastes time. I do like that the puzzles weren't as quick with the hints or as obvious with them. They let you look around and find the solution.
Y know i find that horizon could have easily adapted to an ER style while also avoiding these problems. That being. A choice. If the game asked "would you rather have map markers? Or freely explore?" With an option between the two. It would solve most of these problems. Why force people onto map markers or off map markers? Heck go in depth. We have so many accessibility options why not make what markers do and do not show up on the map?
This way. Those who want no guidance can explore the world and those who want to do it all can get those markers. With both parties being able to switch at a moments notice.
I still think at its core horizon should stay as it is. But having the option to let players naturally stumble across things would be really nice. And for the most part. If your going in wanting to explore naturally and not care about getting every sidequest and trinkets and treasures etc etc. Its really nice to have.
@@e.m.pikachu6700That's already in the game tho
@lazyvoid7107 To an extent, yeah. Map markers are toggleable, and the compass can be toggled on or off or dynamic as well. But they aren't entirely there for the sake of removing map markers from your experience so you can naturally stumble across things. They are more so there for players who dont want a cluttered screen for compass or if you're trying to narrow out a specific icon in the map. For example, you can't set what icons show up on the compass. So if you're just trying to navigate toward, say... a mission objective marker, if you open up that compass, then everything is revealed to you. Not just your objective. Similar issue with the map. You can pick and choose what icons on the map are present. However, it isn't a permanent setting. As everything will be back on the map once you start the game again after turning it off.
What i was proposing was a system in which you could customize your icons on the compass and map permanently. To really fine tune the experience to your liking.
I mean. Unless they changed that stuff recently. I haven't touched HFW in a while
I love this series and Aloy's character so much. Thanks for this video, the hard work doesn't go unnoticed. I also love your self-admitted growth, acknowledging that your older stuff is guilty of certain attitude toward representation. We love growth and I wish more people were as open too. Also keeping politics out is so silly, esp for this series. Horizon is *deeply* political in many aspects.
Thanks so much for the comment, so glad you appreciated it
great analysis! Very well put, very clear, agreed!
Also, whoever is saying the game just became ''woke' did not in fact play the fucking game. How did they miss the huge array of diversity in its characters and story?!
Great video James 👏
I was excited for this one, its a shame the game was review bombed for stupid reasons. So excited for Aloys next chapter, Lance will be missed.
I really hope the third game is PS5 only. By the time it releases we will be well into the PS5 generation, and that Horus fight has shown a glimpse of the powerful machines we could be going up against. If Nemesis is an AI with a sole purpose to destroy everything in its path, then it will be interesting to see what machines it can cook up.
I'm pretty sure it would be a PS5 only game. If it isn't, it be very weird.
We'll likely be at ps5 pro or plus or whatever they brand it. Horizon 3 if they want to keep up the visual fidelity won't be able to run on a ps4. ps4 is a decade old *now*, os probably 15 years old by the time horizon 3 releases. No dev with a brain is going to want to the limited by 15 year old hardware. It'd have to be capped at soemthing terrible like 720p 25fps or something smh
It’s likely to be ps5/6 especially if we are looking at the time from zero dawn to forbidden west. If it follows the same development time it is the same year of the ps6s launch time which is 2028.
I want to thank you Lazerzz for putting the stupid "gone woke" arguments in the mud because its starting to become very childish. Im trans and the second a game adds a trans character everyone seems to lose their shit. Dude these people exist lmao, especially in a realistic story you cannot have a whole cast who are just straight cis dudes because thats just not what the world is.
bit off topic i know but still, love you Lazerrz
I should preface this by saying I like the DLC, I like the addition of Seyka and learning more about the Quen, and especially that Horus fight.
But I feel like the DLC is almost trying to beat people over the head with the main story of Forbidden West (FW) and how it’s different from Zero Dawn (ZD).
To me, ZD is a game whose story focuses on building the world, while FW focuses on building the characters more. Comparing one story to another doesn’t fully work as they are trying to do different things, and in that respect they do it amazingly. ZD builds an amazing rich world, while FW builds the characters in that world to be more interesting. But it’s pretty subtle IMO and so a lot of people missed it, which is fine. Personally I love FW’s story much more because of its focus on characters.
Then, the DLC comes along and is much more brazen about how much Aloy changes actually. I mean post ZD can we imagine her loving anyone, but (again at least to me) her relationship with Seyka makes absolute sense? But it does end up feeling a bit beating over the head for those in the back who didn’t get the change of focus. Hopefully that made sense, but overall great video!
This DLC is true ending to the part II. Without it, the ending of FW was underwhelming
Great video once again! The analysis here was superb and really managed to talk to things I felt about this DLC too. Overall a positive addition to Horizon but at the same time it felt a bit underwhelming also, but without making me feel it was bad, soild 7/10, looking forward to more Horizon. great video!
God elder ring feels so overhyped.
I don't have a problem with Aloy being gay or media having gay characters. If it's written well, then that's all that matters. However, I don't think it's the right time to have Aloy in a romantic relationship with anyone. Her personal journey was learning to lean on others for support. To allow herself to open up to others emotionally and not push people away. I want her to be more vulnerable with others as it'll eventually lead to Aloy being better than Elizabet Sobeck ever was. Her being in a relationship with someone that not only she hardly knows, but the players hardly know, just feels off to me. I don't feel anything seeing the two together. Especially when I feel Aloy has much more pressing matters at hand. I guess it doesn't really matter at the end of the day, but what I do wish is that people talked more about everything else other than a gay kiss! That was literally the only thing I heard about in regards to the DLC. Aloy being gay doesn't ruin her character. She's still awesome.
I disagree with this take. She has learned to open up to people, but that involved opening up herself. She is allowing herself to feel things for people, and she suddenly meets someone who she is infatuated with. It makes sense she would have these feelings, and it even goes well as she nervously accepts this and aquardly tries to proceed. I thought it was very cute and what a young person does the first time they have real feelings.
Horizon Forbidden West and the dlc Burning Shores has some pretty hard 'Middle-Child Syndrome.' It's got improvements on what needed it from the first game, (mostly combat and visuals) but is lacking the punch in the storyline that the first game had. The full storyline in HZD made me CRY. It is a tragic story about destruction and the hope of what can come after, and the fight that it takes to get that.
HFW lacked that ooomph. They spoiled their own climax by restoring GAIA mid-game, and then throwing in the Zeniths and going "nope, here's your bigger Big Bad." What would have felt better, story-wise, was Aloy running around to get all the subfunctions, getting tribal development storylines, characterization, with a final climax of having to get Heph back into GAIA. Once that was done, a good cliffhanger would have been the Appearance of the Zeniths and Varl's death, if they had to do that. Maybe they up and steal GAIA out of the RCC.
NEMESIS as a final Big Bad is appropriate, but the announcement and build-up to it feels spoiled. The Zeniths strike me as more-or-less completely hapless humans who only really had money to make them important, with only had a couple geniuses to their name. Both of which have been dealt with. As horrible as NEMESIS feels, I don't think it's as dangerous as its sounds. It used what the Zeniths had against them. All Nemesis will have to work with is a bunch of tribal, pre-industrial peoples. Which, yeah, can do some damage, but is not world-ending. As long as Aloy can get Heph back into Gaia, functionally destroy all HORUS units, and make sure Nemesis can't use anything else, it's just a big ball of buzzing nano-tech.
World building felt a little all over the place, but the characterization was spot-on. Aloy has opened up like a flower, regardless of the loss she suffered with Varl. I really can't wait to see her open up into her own person.
Horizon 3 will most likel be a bunch of mini-maps like Burning Shores was, to incorporate as many separate places as possible and still make the world 'feel' huge. Aloy will need to coordinate with multiple tribes. Everyone she's ever met, and then some, if the Quen are as far away as we think they are.
For Burning Shores specifically: It felt a little flat, story and world-wise. The Quen don't get developed as much as I'd like, and there's only so many data-points to be found that develop the world that was. There's a section of sandbars/islands in one corner of the map that looks like a train station of some sort on the ground, but beyond that, there's almost nothing there except one data-point, some grazers, and a few snapmaws. LA is one of the most diverse, populous areas of the US, let alone the world, and it was one of the few remaining cities near the end of Enduring Victory. It felt like there should have been more, 60 years of earthquakes or not.
I wish there had been more of Alva, interacting with the lost half of the fleet, as the chunk of the fleet that supposedly had the royal half of things. As the last Diviner, quite possibly on that side of the Pacific, girl would have had a LOAD of authority. Right up there with Admiral Gerrit. Really wanted more from him, too. How do you lead a people possibly lost of purpose?
Combat felt nice and crunchy with the new improvements, which I like to see. Though I really want flying-mounted combat. Set your mount to do a small loop of the area, only able to input dodges or flee, flight controls-wise, and then go nuts on shooting. Not like most of the machines don't have some sort of ranged attacks that can hit you in the air.
Loved your critique! Thank you for your thoughts. Apologies for the wall of text, yt does not give many options in the way of formatting for an easy read.
The Zeniths had tech that made them untouchable and invincible, and had zero regard for any life not their own. They seemed plenty formidable to me, and VERY satisfying to finally kill. What awful people: the 1% with force-fields.
Yup and Frozen Wilds DLC gives that mysterious vibe while burning shores feels like a non DLC that I have a feeling was supposed to be added in forbidden West but got cut out
almost made it a full 5 minutes without referencing AC... almost... ;)
So close 😭
In regards to stealth. I do honestly think that the whole "stealth kill sometimes" machanic actually adds a layer of depth to stealth instead of hindering it. See while playing the game i found that human enemies dont actually immediately alert all the others immediately after noticing you. There is actually a buffer time before everyone is alerted because im pretty sure the enemy needs to call to the others to get their attention iirc. As welll as this. Stunning a human enemy will increase your time as they are too busy reeling from pain to alert everyone. Knowing this. Stealth goes from a simple R1 to kill everyone. To a system in which to kill stronger enemies via tskedown, you will need to execute a combo of some sort that involves the takedown. to keep them stunned long enough for you to finish them off.
Its hard to really explain, but the jist of it is that you can do some pretty interesting things while still playing stealth that allow you to kill takedown surviving enemies.
For example, if normal guards are giving you trouble, using hunter bow you can headshot to remove head armor then directly after doing so you can stealth takedown, followed by a spear swing which stuns the guard and allows you to quick draw your bow and plummet a final arrow into the face, getting the kill before he alerts anyone else.
So its safe to say stealth is actually a bit more convoluted then you would first think
Those comments about Aloy were hilarious! ‘First The Last of Us2,’ now THIS!! Wow! A whole TWO games with gay protagonists. These people are too much. I like knowing my existence triggers them so!!
The whole discourse over the way horizon points you in a certain direction vs how Elden ring lets you explore without much guidance annoys me greatly. I get it - people want truly open world games that don't hold your hand and allow for infinite exploration.
But like.. I hate those types of games. I've never been able to get through games like that because I just can't seem to understand what they're trying to get me to do, and what I should be doing next. I don't know if it's because I'm autistic and don't pick up on a lot of things normal people do, or just because I haven't found the right one, but I've never been able to finish a game like that - not a single Fallout or Elder scrolls, and believe me, I've tried.
So I love that horizon really holds your hand the whole time and guides you in the direction you need to go instead of just handing you a bow, dropping you into the map, and telling you "good luck!" I really hope the third game doesn't try to reinvent how they handle story missions.
Same here. I also prefer the narrative driven open worlds to the sandboxes of Elden Ring or Zelda. Tried Skirim once and gave up after a couple of hours. Trying to complete one quest led me to five more quest givers all of which wanted me to head in different directions until I could no longer remember why I cared about the first one. Also, sandboxes don't tend to include meaningful stories/character relationships which is what I'm looking for.
Funnily enough, Witcher 3 has a very similar open world design to Horizon aka not being a sandbox. However, I haven't seen many people all of a sudden calling Witcher 3 awful "because it isn't like Elden Ring".
23:33 Considering nobody can recogneize one another it’s strange people see Aloy, dressed in Carja armor with Tenakth make up and say: hey, a Nora!
As always, great video! I really like the way you analyse these games.
I thoroughly enjoyed the DLC and I wasn’t bothered by the ‘lack of content compared to frozen wilds’ as everyone says - the character development of aloy was always the most important. They have written her character perfectly. absolutely shed a tear and cheered when we were given the option to kiss Seyka! I’m fed up of all this ‘woke’ agenda crap and the review bombing cause aloy is gay, get the heck over it. There are greater problems in this world than someone’s sexuality and it being portrayed in a game!
Cannot wait for the 3rd game!
Very based, glad you enjoyed the video and the DLC, very much looking forward to that 3rd game 🙌🏻
@@LazerzZ we could sit and theorise for hours of where they can go with the 3rd. I’d really like to return east to unite the tribes in the sacred lands with the west and have new areas to explore and recruit more allies.I guess the only clues we have are from the data Sylens recovered from Walter after we defeat him.
After this DLC I wanna Aloy to jump in to help leading rebellion in Quen nation. It would be a nice change of pace, because in two previous installments she fought against rebels (Shadow Carja, Regalla's forces). Fuck that authoritarian empire. Quen were gathering data of the Old Ones for centuries so, so who knows, they might have something important to defeat Nemesis. So Empire would have to fall for Aloy to get that info.
And I absolutely agree with exploration. If there's collectibles to be found, I want them marked on my map, otherwise I run around casting Revelio... ups, pulsing Focus every few seconds to see if I haven't missed anything important.
All and all, I cannot wait for another game. Hope Seyka will join our crew permanently.
Also now I'm certain Sylens will sacrifice himself to save Aloy at some point. It will beautifully wrap up his story arc. After all, he decided to stay on Earth only because he believes in Aloy, even if he will never admit it to her (or maybe he will?).
When I first played Horizon I seriously thought Aloy was asexual.
21:35 good luck trying to change Elden Ring shills mind and content creators "cough" pineapple "cough"
I don't care why the burning shores dlc is bombing. but little respect to lance reddick. RIP Lance Reddick 👼
This is one of the best best takes on Burning Shores i've seen up until now. Horizon as a whole is at the moment my second favorite fictional universe after Destiny. I usually seek out what other people think about a piece of media once i've played / watched it and the discourse about this DLC, even in places that are generally positive about the game is...wierd to me to say the least. Just stuff like "the romance is rushed" or "forced" usually ending with "but not because it's gay". From they way some people are talking about what really amounts to "I like you" "Yeah i like you too" and an optional kiss it would seem that Aloy and Seyka got married after knowing each other for about a day. That's of course overall the more reasonable take compared to the crowd who just scream woke, call Aloy ugly and decry the fall of western civilisation. The only take i kinda agree with it is that some people took Aloy as aromantic which would have been intresting. Also seeing Lance in this really hits me hard, i'm usually not really affected by celebrities dying but him being in Horizon and in Destiny since the beginning makes me just really sad knowing we'll never get a good ending for Sylens or Commander Zavala. RIP Lance
My opinion it's to soon dude
I think my only complaint about Seyloy (Seyka x Aloy) was the marketing that was so painfully obvious at the nature of their relationship. I played Burning Shores full on expecting a romance based on what was said, instead of being pleasantly surprised by it as the story progresses. Because Aloy is attracted to Seyka from the start. We don’t need much to immediately know she’s taken an interest in the Quen marine. It shows how open she’s become to people that upon meeting this strange Quen she takes a liking to her. And by the end there’s nothing more than admit those feelings. No matter the route you choose, the feelings of live are present in each one. I see you, you see me.
Even if their relationship was only dlc exclusive for some reason I’d still say that they pulled off the romance well especially with the bond they seem to immediately share. If the devs want to introduce more romance options in the third entry they need to flesh them out just as much but if they keep Seyka as the sole love interest it’d work just as well after all the dlc is only 7 hours long so they could probably flesh out Seyka and her relationship with Aloy a decent amount
I love this dlc a lot actually and I didn’t kiss the girl and I loved the way aloy handled it xD
48:00
Yet Aloy takes one out single handed. 🤣
Yeah hundreds of people with air forces,tanks,advanced guns cant destroy one unless they bomb it but aloy,simply goes inside and hack it... WHAT?!
The whole "wanting an antagonist that is more than just evil for evils sake" is why I like HEPH as an antagonist. HEPH has a clash of programming and directives. It knows what the purpose of Project Zero Dawn was. It knows it was about restoring the Earths Biosphere so that all life, including Humans can return. However it also notices that the very Humans it was designed to help bring back are hunting down the very machines that made it possible. It does not want to kill all humans, but it is driven to that result because it sees thousands of its children being killed for scrap. It also has a hatred towards GAIA for allowing it to happen at all. The fact that GAIA just sat there allowing these tribal humans to hunt down the machines must have made HEPH truly angry. So it tried to create deterrents to sway humanity from hunting down its children. For example the derangement and making recon and bodyguard machines. When that failed to created hunter killers. Machines like Thunderjaws, Ravagers etc but even that led to nowhere. Restricted by the cauldrons, it sought out a workaround. A way to make more advanced hunter killers. And this is where HEPH turns from antagonist to villain. Tricking CYAN into accepting a communication link so it could launch a virus to take over the Firebreak facility and turn it into a cauldron. Free from Zero Dawns limitations. Using this new cauldron to spit out Scorchers, Frostclaws, Daemonic machines (which would later become Apex variants) and the Fireclaw. Hell, its first target was on a tribe of humans that respect machines. Their entire culture is framed around the "blue light" seen in the zero dawn machines. And later in Forbidden West the very first time we see Apex machines from Aloys pov is the same scenario. A culture of humans that respect and revere machines. Those being the Utaru. Even turning one of their land-gods into a hunter killer via a repair facility. A place of rebirth and renewal for the zero dawn machines is turned into a place of death and destruction. HEPH even calls out Aloy for destroying Epsilon and I love how it calls out the FW cauldrons you have overridden when you face it again in cauldron: Gemini. Shit just got personal.
In short HEPH is simply a parent that is willing to go to any lengths to protect their children. We created the monster that is HEPH. It has lost all patience, it sees humanity as a threat to life on Earth itself. And it will stop at nothing to ensure that threat is gone. Even if it means eliminating humanity altogether.
honestly i loved the dlc, the story and Seyka really made me see how far Aloy has come as a character. And of course i love Sam Witwer lol. the one thing i think i was let down on was the actual layout of the map. I didn't expect L.A. to be just islands. I expected something more akin to The city in I am Legend (obvi not as big, maybe some of it is underwater for the waterwing section).
Agreed, I feel pretty much entirely the same
50:14 thank you so much it was fantastic to hear your perspective and helpful, I was not sure how I truly felt about this DLC,but after watching you it put a lot of concerns into perspective, thank you
I enjoyed this dlc, wished it was longer though lol. Alloy actually opening up and growing emotionally was fairly well done. And finding someone to connect with is 100% what that character needs.
Also the loss of Lance Redik sucksy
Great analysis! I had some lingering feelings of disappointment after the DLC that I couldn't quite put my finger on, but you voiced them perfectly. I also really appreciate your tangents on diversity and "wokeness", so thank you for that. It's been disheartening to see community members and friends turn sour so quickly based on a single aspect of the DLC that I think fits the story and characters perfectly.
Too bad nuance is a foreign concept these days...
Good video, I enjoyed it. Nuanced and detailed, with you own personal takes mixed in. Good effort!
PS: I had the Shadow of the Colossus OST 'opened way' and 'despair-filled farewell' blasting on my speakers while fighting the Horus
I'll jump the gun and directly talk about Aloy and Seyka.
I liked Seyka from the start. To me she seemed a Quen version of Aloy, and that immediately clicked in my brain that their was gonna be a relationship, wasn't surprised when the ending came. I did reject her though choosing the "brain" option.
Looking online, I kinda get why people are complaining about it. Seyka is a completely new character and their OTP is not getting fulfilled. Some are also saying that it was too quick, to those I can only say that Aloy hasn't settled down and started living with her, in Horizon 3 both could split because of reasons.
Loved the DLC! And largely agree with most of the points you made.
Most people that are complaining are really just complaining because Aloy likes women, which anyone with half a braincell would've known was the case from even as early as Zero Dawn just by the way she acts around men vs women, especially when they're flirtatious with her. That said, I understand why some may feel it's too much too soon, but I also feel it's really not much at all, this is the only point in her life where it's made sense for her to be able to embrace feeling this way about another person and all it was ended up being a strong connection and a kiss if you choose that option, like you said she's not settling down and starting a family, she just felt strong feelings of attraction toward someone for really the first time ever and that's a special moment of characterisation for her.
Glad you enjoyed the DLC and the video, thanks for the comment!
@@LazerzZ The way this was introduced does leave me questioning why they did it this way. First, it's in a DLC that some people can't play (PS 4 owners). Second, they added it right at the end of the DLC where it would have no impact on the main story and finally it was done via one of the "three choices" widgets - so far all they've been for is to change the dialoge the NPC says - the next installment won't know which choice the player made so why bother? Geurrilla are going to have to decide how the relationship plays out in the next installment. If they're serious then they should have done this in FW with one of the existing characters (Talanah would be my choice, although I do lile Vanasha's sarcastic sense of humour). The cynic in me thinks Geurrilla did this for a bit of free publicity (after all, we all know what happened when TLoU Pt 2 did it) - I guess we'll just have to wait a few years to see what happens.
Let's hope that whatever choice Geurrilla make, they do it properly.
@@Weissman111 It was "added" "at the end" of the DLC because the story of the progression of the relationship is shown along the way as the DLC story progresses. The payoff for players is that it Just Makes Sense after what we've seen that Aloy and Seyka have a relationship.
@@dondumitru7093 I think you missed my point - putting it at the point means it has no impact on anything other than the cut-scene at the end - the decision you make won't carry over to the next installment so why do it this way? Seems to me that the DLC was (a) a showcase for the PS5 and (b) a way to get some free publicity, knowing full well the "gaming" media would latch on to it in a second. What's more important is what they do with it in the next game (I guess we'll be able to tell by wacthing what Kylie Page is up to over the next few years).
@@Weissman111 You can choose not to help Itamen and Nasadi in HZD, but they will show up at the beginning of HFW.
I hope Aloy gets a shield in the next game, something like the Guardian shield from BOTW.
Wasn’t expecting this, glad it’s here though. Love your critiques 👏
On the topic of Navigation, I think the pullcaster is probably the most lacking. Climbing points were very liberally strewn across the open world, but grapple points still only exist in very explicitly designed locations.
You can tell you are approaching a battle arena or collectible location by two things: The lack of climbing points, and the addition of grapple points.
I wish the pullcaster was more applicable for general traversal.
Wow, I'm blown away! You’ve earn another subscriber. This video was absolutely fantastic. Your insightful analysis and critiques are just spot on! Thank you for delving deep into the characters, particularly Aloy and Seyka's relationship. You hit the mark perfectly! It's disheartening to see some people dismissing the DLC or Aloy herself simply because of her LGBTQ+ identity. Like you, I eagerly anticipate seeing more of Seyka and Aloy's evolving bond. People simply need to mature and recognize the intricate masterpiece behind this story. Not to mention Aloy’s amazing character growth.
Thank you so much! Really appreciate that. I have a real fondness for Horizon that I think just translates well into the videos I make on it. I look forward to talking about it more in the future, as well as of course the next major game.
I’ll add to the section around 19:00 regarding the removal of the “collectathon” nature the main games admittedly had, the edge elden ring and other FromSoft titles have are the level and world design. Playing through those games the environment tells a story and seeing things out of place or similar to other locations of interest will cue to the player using the visuals (and sometimes audio like the walking bell things in elden ring) where Horizon doesn’t have that set up. Adding those to the next game may help: like old world ruins that look similar or have the same company sign linked to a collectible quest so that if the player sees it they have an idea that there’s probably stuff in there?
I want to find Brin. I liked his quest line in zero dawn and was hoping for more Brin
Plays more like a long side quest from Forbidden West - it will be interesting what they do with Seyka in the next installment.
it does somewhat feel like one of those chains, like we had for Petra or Talanah, maybe a tad more than those, but similar in design
It's a very modestly priced DLC, and the final Horus fight required pushing the engine a lot.
Is there anyone anywhere that complains about performance problems with the DLC? The thing is damn gorgeous and runs butter smooth.
@@dondumitru7093 Yeah, length-wise, I think it's pretty decent. The main 5 quests are 4 hours and there's side content on top of that. It's not as long as Witcher 3 Blood & Wine but it IS longer than, for example:
Mass Effect 3 Omega - 2 hours with no side content for $15.
AC3 King Washington - 4.5 hours with mediocre side content for $30.
Sam witwer plays the villain im sold how much does a ps5 cost now a days
I had never seen your channel and this video was very insightful, love it! makes me think about how every narrative is built from the perspective of the "self", and the "self" needs to have the "other" to form its identity. maybe some people are uncomfortable with a queer protagonist because they realize the story is based on the perspective of someone they see as the "other". and that might feel unfair and weird to these people. I guess it's the fear of the unknown, as you said in your video.
I know you said you'd like diferent maps, but how would you feel with companion fights like in Mass Effect and Dragon Age??
As you remember, in the ending of Forbidden West, Aloy sent her friends to diferent parts of the world to call for help and to warn of the impending doom, so it is safe to assume that some of the Corporations mentioned by Sylens are where Aloy's friends are!!
Companion fights that, later could be turned into co-op...
18:08 The first game had fast travel. I still hacked a machine and rode it everywhere I went. 🤷♂
I appreciate your discussion about the difference between representation, diversity, and writing.
Oh my fucking god the anti anti woke bit here was exactly what i was thinking for a few weeks lol. People should not confuse "woke" with poor execution.
the final boss fight made up for any flaws in my opinion
Absolutely love your explanation of how the game's checklist design doesn't work with the more explorative design of something like Elden Ring. My hope would be that for the next game they create a world that is more worth exploring and not just filled in with checklist content. The best solution would be to have that design in place but also allow people to turn on map icons should they want them.
You can hide all the icons on the map (or almost all?) That's why I can never really understand this criticism of the "checklist".
Love the vid. Based as usual. I lowkey want another dlc
I agree with you about a story being bad because it is bad. But saying "what is even woke" it discredits you. You know what woke is. Almost everyone knows what it is. You acting like you don't know really makes your point invalid because how are you arguing against something you don't know. Mind you, I agree with how alloy was written.
The question wasn’t a genuine question. I obviously know what people are saying when they call things “woke” as I go onto discuss. The question was meant to poke fun at it being a stupid term that has lost all genuine meaning in place of just being mad at things that aren’t straight white make centric, it’s a criticism without value or substance.
Will, I must note you didn't define "woke", and I think that is because you know everyone has their own definition. It is a BS term that means nothing. You agree with how Aloy is written, and yet you will find many comments even here saying Aloy is written poorly and is too "woke" *manic laughter*
Give us all a break. It means whatever you want it to mean. I don't like this so it's work. be that women, or homosexuals, or transgender, or people of colour, or social equality, or, or, or, or. Do I need to go on? You won't agree at all, but that is because of how out of touch you and so many others are. You have this selfcentric focus that can never see anything outside what you care about.
I hope one day you "wake up" and realize how silly you really are.
I love horzion zero dawn the frozen wilds forbidden west and burning shores. I hope horzion 3 in the future is single player only and a ps5 only game in the future.
So refreshing to watch a deeper analysis of the DLC instead of the usual stats/numbers minmaxing. Also totally support you on the monologue in the middle of this video. I’m sick of these bigots giving it a 0/10 just because of the ending scene.
Honestly... I've kinda lost how much I cared for this game. First one was awesome. But the second one could just NOT make me care less. And now it's just getting me more annoyed.
Interesting, I'm sorry to hear that. I found the sequel to be a really compelling continuation of a narrative I enjoyed, maybe with time you might warm to it.
@@LazerzZ oh no I played everything forbidden west back and yet it was only in forbidden west that the story felt... Bland. I knew varl was going to die once his girl said she was having a kid it's a story trope, I figured that the final boss would also have feelings for aloy it just got...predictable. it doesn't feel like Horizon Zero Dawn anymore. I'm not a big fan of how the story is going. If anything Ted shoulda been the final boss of it all but he's dead.
As for the big relationship...eh. Kinda annoying. I haven't played the dlc or heard anything besides this video. If it is legitimately good then I'll be much more inclined to play it and even platinum it. But it just sucks. For me at least. I respect everyone that enjoys it. Just don't give me any hate for a different opinion.
Edit: I never felt invested in it like I did the original. I felt bored of it once the girl who lived in the giant tree found feelings for Varl. Think it's Varl. Anyways it felt empty.
@@darkmatter-mc5iv Zo revealed she was pregnant AFTER Varl died... So you couldn't have known "Varl was going to die" for that reason. And Zo is great.
@@danc1513and no one to mess with, after she took her vengeance on Varl’s killer! Cold!
the scale of the horus boss fight is the one i wanted from Ragnarok.
Okay, you've earned a subscribe from me. Fantastic video. It's great to see someone who's willing to express how they've evolved in their ideologies over the years.
I think what made me annoyed initially about Aloy-Seyka is that I had been hoping for Aloy-Talanah. But after going through the story a second time, I realized just how much value Seyka brought to Aloy's character growth. It was absolutely beautiful after I gave it just a little bit of thought.
And I don't want to take away any credit from you for calling Aloy's orientation in the main game, I do feel like she was already quite queer coded in Zero Dawn.
About the game itself, some of the movement issues you mentioned didn't show up for me, probably because I played on PC with a mouse and Azeron Cyborg keypad.
I almost completely agree about the Horus battle. It really felt like a classic boss fight from some of the best video games of my childhood (Ganondorf from Ocarina of Time comes to mind). The only issue was that I struggled way too much with the waves of energy in the room as I was trying to take down Londra himself inside the Horus.
I 100 percented Zero Dawn. I stumbled upon this game by accident at the computer club, and year later this was the first disk to come with my own ps4. I was enthralled by the story, finding more excuses to come back to this game one more time. What if I replay the game on ultra hard? What if I get all the collectables? What if I complete all side quests? Needless to say, I've been stalking the GameStop for the Forbidden West as soon as I heard the sequel was due to release.
The sequel, however, left me underwhelmed. I started the game on the hardest difficulty, scavenging the world for resources and collextables, picking the fights with the toughest machines. The game became a blur of shapes and dialogues with a singular goal of getting better gear, better coils, better loot, better skills.
Fast forward to the beginning of the June, 2024. I don't have a ps5, so I've hever heard about the Burning Shores and stumbled upon it by accident. I watched a walkthrough on TH-cam. I was left bewildered. " When did Aloy become so open? How is she making the moves first? Why us this Seika girl so damn irritating? They fell for eachother way too fast. "
But then I watched your videos and realised that the way I've been playing the sequel was fundamentally wrong. I was trying to one up myself from the past, but the past me never started ZD with a goal to become the best. He simply found more ways to enjoy the game he loved for the story. The story that I've neglected.
These videos made me rethink the ways I've been treating my favourite franchise and notice a few unchecked biases that were feeding on my ignorance. I think the most negative ( and I mean without any constructive feedback ) reviews came from the people with similar gaming experience like mine. God forbid, I fall into the same echo chamber with them, so I'm glad to finally stick my head out of my ass.
The purpose of this lengthy paragraph is simple: I want to thank you for rekindling my true love for this franchise. It has a special place in my life and I almost let it drown. I'm going to replay ZD and FW, this time, for the story ( and hey, might lower normal difficulty for the story one if I feel I'm spiralling back ).
Hey Lazzer. Recent subscriber here and loving the videos (specially the critique on GoW Ragnarok), but I'd like to offer some pushback on the Critical Drinker and the "woke" thing. He recently (couple of weeks or months, maybe?) published a video on the topic, and it seemed to me his vision is the same as yours (that is, that the term has been thrown around so often -- and at times in a baseless fashion -- that it ends up making any conversation sterile).
All the best!
I can't say I really feel I agree with Critical Drinker on a lot of things, but there are certainly points we do hold similar viewpoints on, and sure, I agree, "woke" has become a term that it totally devalued. When I used it in my Saints Row video, I didn't really mean it in the way it's used most commonly these days, but most people didn't realise that and lumped me in with that crowd, which did suck. Just the nature of language I supposed, words change their meaning and you have to adapt to that.
Thanks for the comment!
Guerrilla went all out with the Horus fight. The first section where we have to sneak around while avoiding the tentacles searching for us was genuinely scary. The first phase of the actual fight was tough but still really cool and the scale of it was awesome. The second phase was just plain fun. There weren’t any gimmicks or such and it was just super fun. The final phase was a great callback and improvement on Erik’s first boss fight at the hades proving lab. Guerrilla has been stepping up their boss fights in this game. This is such an improvement over the deathbringers from Zero Dawn. I thought Tilda’s boss fight was awesome but Londra is so many steps ahead
Great video James! As alway- uh nevermind...
Anyway, I was only able to watch Burning Shores as I don't have a PS5, but I absolutely adore the little narrative we've been given, and the final boss fight looks like it would be tremendous to play.
I also wanted to say that my dad has always said to me "It takes just as much effort to make bad food as it does to make good food." I would say the exact same applies here with diverse television, and I cannot wait for RTD to give some minority groups the representation they deserve
I simply disagree with everything, the DLC for me felt like a forced wanna-be pseudo romance and another generic boss fight the type we should have got in the final game not a DLC to fight a metal devil and of course the evil white male villain. Boring as hell. Hollow as F.
I dont really care about the gay stuff, the representation that exists in this game is cool, because its well written. What i dont like is changing sexuality or etni of existing characters, like they do on movies and tv shows. Sylens is a great character and the proof that you can create a great new character.
The Horus fight is what I wanted the final fight with Errol in Jak 3 to be.
Personally I see things more from a game perspective. I don't believe games need to be movies or books. That emotions and characters drive a game forward. It's the adventure itself. And in terms of that the DLC does a couple things very well that a DLC for an open game should do. It expands on an already meaty game with a worthwhile addition, rounding out said game. And it builds a more satisfying finale on top of the base games finale. At the end of a game's DLC cycle it should feel more complete. More whole and as if the missing elements have been put back into it. It shouldn't be a game on itself rather fused with the base game to complete the final definitive edition of said game. I think this DLC did that rather well.
Doesn’t matter (and I say that with joy seeing the series’ depictions on love ☺️) but I felt Aloy’s feelings, with how they developed over the course of the DLC, could be viewed as her being Demisexual, which (and please correct me if there are others here or in other series) is pretty rad
Yea the DlC is good but definitely gives the "we're moving on to the third game, lets get this out"
One thing that this dlc made me hopeful for in a third game is a range of different melee weapons that have different elemental affinities. I liked the ability to use capsules to add an element type to the spear, but I don't think it wae worth taking up more space on an already cluttered kit menu for an element that isn't permanently on the spear and is easier to apply at range, so I'm hoping that in the third game we can just change melee weapons altogether
Yeah that's certainly an interesting point, I do wonder if they might delve into that side of combat a little bit more. I doubt it'll ever become a huge primary focus since ranged combat is sort of Horizon's whole shtick, but definitely adding even more variety and depth than FW would be interesting. Another cool idea could potentially be if in a side game, or spin off or even in the MMO, there's actually an entirely melee focussed combat system, something that is totally different from how Aloy fights, I'd love to see that if they ever wanted to do more stories with a new character in Horizon's world, or in the MMO like I said.
Really REALLY ? So instant of something with Hephaestus or Cyan you prefer this . The one that have 3 side missions practically no new machines except the frog and his eggs , Aloy is not even close to her character ( Talanah. When you find a person that you will love you will understand Aloy . This is not for me ) and a map that barely have anything in . Please don´t tell me the Horus the Horus is not a machine is a boss fight . A dlc that is not even a bare bone to what Frozen Wild´s was . Don´t make me say how we go there . Frozen Wilds was one with the map and in this crap we go with a cutscene .R.I.P. Lance Reddick they did even give you a role in this dlc and after i have play it i can really say it was for the best .
as much as i saw the romance thing coming i was still holding out hope to romance errand, they were the source of so much growth for each other and watching errand basically bulldoze through aloys emotional distance was so satisfying. but this is still good.
Everyone should have known aloy was gay at a minimum. Everyone in both games has been hitting on her non-stop. she found someone she likes and that's cute af (she may have like avad a little but not that much )
I'd love tonsee variants of the Spectre drone used by Nemesis.
Cuz it comes from the same texhbase as the Zeniths it'd make sense fornit to use the same servitors, and improve on them.
So we might see improved and more dynamic versions of the Spectre and Drone, maybe even some automaton versions of like Spectre Prime.
After Zero Dawn and Forbidden West I was pretty sure they had made Aloy ace/aro, with a tiny possibility she might be gay, a genetic tendency in her DNA. I love Seyloy but they missed an opportunity to rep our ace/aro brothers and sisters.
About collecting the dino’s and playing the game at the end being pointless: That’s the point. We (21st century world citizens) are accumilating ship like crazy while there is no reward. (Yeah, yeah, I know. Not everybody) NFTs, sneakers, MtG cards, pokemon cards, fabric, shoes, cloths, figurines, swarovski etc etc
I have to strongly disagree with the criticism of the Horizon games' exploration ethos. Not every game needs to be like Elden Ring, or Skyrim (which has a fully revealed map but no markers of anything until you find them). I thought Forbidden West got the balance just right with making each Tallneck something different and more in depth than in Zero Dawn where it was just a matter of "find the jump spot". Hell, The Frozen Wilds gave a hint of how Tallnecks would be handled in the next game by making it more of a task to handle it.
I would also like to point out that I have *never played an Ubisoft game* and laying criticisms at the feet of one game that "it's just like this other game" completely fails to understand the notion that some gamers might be *very* interested in Horizon, but not in Assassin's Creed, like myself, and so have never been exposed to a game mechanic analogous to the Tallneck. I had never experienced anything like it, so when I played Zero Dawn, then Forbidden West it felt like a well executed and interesting exploration mechanic. Doing something some other game has done, but adapting it for your game in a way that works well within the confines of your game should not be something to be criticised unless it's done badly or feels out of place, neither of which can be leveled at Forbidden West, or even Zero Dawn.
39:14 I write this as a straight white male. You are turbo spitting facts bro. I genuinely don't know why people got mad at Aloy for being lesbian when Sobeck being one is established in the base game and they share 99,48% (or whatever the Eleuthia cradle door said in HZD) of genetic code. I love that twitter shit on this DLC and called it horrendous only because of this 5 minute interaction when THERE IS A LITERAL FIGHT WITH A HORUS BEFORE ALL OF THIS!!! Are these people mental? XD