Star Trek's Milky Way is VERY Crowded
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 23 ก.ค. 2024
- #startrek #aliens #space
Star Trek presents a version of the Milky Way Galaxy that is inhabited by thousands of intelligent spacefaring civilizations. But just how MANY thousands are we talking about? And do these numbers share any resemblance to real-world estimates about the number of alien civilizations?
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Check out part 2 of this video in which I discuss how many alien civilizations may exist in OUR universe: th-cam.com/video/PDTeJkSq98A/w-d-xo.html
Space, is big. Really big. You just won't believe how vastly hugely mind-bogglingly big it is. I mean, you may think it's a long way down the road to the chemist, but that's just peanuts to space.
Your chemist sells peanuts?
@@DMSProduktions Budget cuts made it necessary.
@@fgutz1970 OH!
Yes it's a pity Douglas Adams wasn't credited!
Peanuts? More like protons
I'm so glad I found this channel!!!
You're very good at explaining things & hypothesizing the unknown... keep the amazing content coming man!!
Great video dude! Looking forward to the next one. I always appreciate the way you apply the math and science!
Thanks Clint! Looking forward to sharing part 2 as well. Even more math involved there lol
I'm sure someone's mentioned this, but the Borg assigning "Species 8472" for the Undine gives us a ballpark figure for--something. The Borg are principally only interested in species if they achieve warp travel, and maybe advanced warp travel at that. I'm thinking that about 10,000-20,000 species that are functioning members of space faring societies exist. Lots more intelligent species might have existed, but they've extinct for various reasons such as stellar or planetary issues, blowing themselves up or poisoning themselves with resource mismanagement, etc. And dying out due to war or cruelty of more advanced races.
Others being very much alive, but still in development, or else never traveling far up the technology tree due to cultural focus and / or resources not quite permitting large and advanced civilizations to develop or be maintained. and more than once, indeed, many times, civilizations become advanced, but fall into a form of barbarism or 'child-like' state with 'nanny' computers taking care of their every need.
That was something I always found interesting about Star Trek - despite the optimism for Earth and humanity, they run into SO many planets which have either destroyed themselves in some ironic catastrophe, or which just gets randomly cooked by their parent star or a nearby supernova, etc etc. The Federation just collects their scans and moves on, but I have to imagine Federation cosmologists and philosophers have tried to use those data to get a numerical estimate of exactly how lucky any of them are for still existing.
And for that matter, who’s to say in the real world, we’ll take the role of Earth? We could be like the Cardassians, or any of the extinct planets which merely gets a brief note in the ship’s log. This is part of why I find the “great filter” debate to be too simplistic - it’s not necessarily a dualistic choice. It can both be unlikely on the whole for us to make it through, yet not necessarily implying anything about our actual future, as it’s all unwritten and depends so heavily on the complex behaviours of generations of people. We’ve made many unlikely things happen before with great effort, after all. The mere possibilities for self-destruction existing don’t necessarily make intelligence automatically inclined to go down that path, even if there will always be some fraction of them which do end-up doing so just on the sheer basis of the numbers.
Good work,good research, You put a lot a work into it and it shows.
Really great video! You’re quite the mathematician!
Haha, it was all rough back-of-the-napkin math honestly!
@@OrangeRiver I call BS, your too smart for that! 🤪
Great video !!
I would like to see a future Star Trek series where the major powers are effectively type 3 civilizations and have a possible alliance with the dominion and the federation to take on the Borg.
Panspermia? It looks like that was kirk's prime mission in TOS.
So, just to clarify, it seems like the number of member planets in the Federation includes worlds where there are space faring peoples, but where life did not originate on the planet. For example, Mars became an early member of the Federation, but at the beginning it was only populated by humans from Earth. (Okay, okay, there was also probably an annoying Vulcan envoy or two, and a Tellarite looking for stuff to trade)
It's the fact that so many aliens are at a similar level of technology at the time time that's the real mystery
Glad you mentioned it.
Yep, I think there's a little leeway with the whole "they're descended from the same 4.5 billion year old genetic code" -- a suspension of disbelief -- but it really is a large coincidence. Maybe it really does take that long for life to develop on other planets, and it averages out even after taking into consideration different climates, stellar flux, availability of precious metals, etc. But think about how many civilizations could have risen and fallen on the timescale of millions of years, let alone thousands or hundreds. I mean, I'd imagine there are lot of ancient civilizations that existed around the same time as the Iconians, Tkon, D'Arsay, etc. that we may never know about.
Gene Roddenberry published a paper in The Astrophysical Journal about the locations of all the civilizations in Star Trek. It would be interesting to see how many stars come between us and the nearest one it identifies.
Thanks for sharing, It is a lot of worlds and interesting alien life out there in space.
11% of the volume of the galaxy seems really really big
Awesome vid! Can you please do a vid on Species 116 from Voyager? Would like to no more about them cheers =)
Orange River thank you so much for your analysis on Star Trek. I hope down the road you will review Star Trek Discovery and Star Trek Strange New Worlds.
There are exactly as many civilizations in the Star Trek universe as the writers need for there to be.
What did Spock find in the Enterprise toilet?
The Captain’s Log.
personally to the question of are we alone in the galaxy or universe or whatever word you want to use, although we technically don't know the answer to this question, my answer is that we would be incredibly foolish to believe that we are the only intelligent life out there or that we are the most intelligent life out there. I would venture a guess that we aren't really all that bright compared to what may be out there, but as we have not developed all that far technologically even if you're looking at it by Star Trek standards which of course is fiction, I don't think any intelligent aliens would be all that interested in us yet. If we're talking Star Trek references, I think they had the right idea in suggesting that the Vulcans wouldn't be interested in us until we developed warp travel. I think something similar would apply to real life aliens. they wouldn't care about us at all until we were able to actually leave our own solar system unless they wanted to conquer us and I hope there's not anything out there with those intentions but the aliens in Star Trek are incredibly diverse and I would think that if they are out there, while they may be more sparse than in Trek, they will be just as diverse in their intentions.
'tis far easier for an advanced civilization to terraform a world or find an empty one than to conquer one that is already inhabited
And remember this is all in the Milky Way. imagine how many are in andromeda or the universe.
In TOS the Andromeda galaxy was dying because of radiation. I wish they'd explore that subject more or travel to other galaxies
"Or is it?" Queue Vsauce theme.
Slavers were a Larry Niven creation who he donated to the Star Trek universe in an animated series episode that he wrote.
Watching Star Trek at 60fps is so so so smooth
Technically, you're unable to watch it at more than 24fps.
Hey those eye-brows almost stole the show !!
Great channel. Love the trek stuff. I just started watching season 1 of "discovery". Live long and prosper my brother.
Well, Trek's own numbers may be kind of skewed cause there *were* a few really powerful old civilizations spreading a lot of life around, notably skewed toward humanoid tool using types.
I've been watching a lot of this stuff lately. I especially appreciate this one. Look up the Drake equation and you can apply different factors in for each science fiction franchise. Different factors=different end results. Trek would have us believe, like you say, that our galaxy has tens of thousands. It's a few dozen for Mass effect. I think the number is actually about 12 and we may become the thirteenth if we make it past our violent childhood. What do you think?
I don't know why, every time I hear that 'Knowledge Guy' say "Knowledge" (while I have your videos in the background) I keep thinking that it's from a scene from ST:TMP that I never paid attention to where it's George Takei as Sulu saying "Knowledge." 🤷
Could you do a video on a fictional universe where the galaxy is much less populated like in House of Suns by Alastair Reynolds? House of Suns is set in the far future where humanity has basically evolved into billions of different species from near baseline humans to centaurs, to 50 ton elephant like beings with a reactor inside them to literal living libraries and repositories of information
I just noticed that this video was uploaded on Terry Farrell-Nimoy's birthday! (And 2 days before ALEXANDER SIDDIG'S B-Day)
A+😁 As usual.
Or, is it?!?👀🤣🤣🤣
Just thought... Do we know much about the Beta quadrant? Alpha, Gamma, Delta...?
🖖🏻
The Drake Equation, next time on OrangeRiver!
and..I've always stated that ..say if there are 100 civilizations in out galaxy ..the odds that 2 are at the same level of development are next to none...some are way advanced ..while others stiff primitive
I loved the Tai Lopez Knowledge meme, but in seriousness voyager alone would've brought back at least 100 new species alone, who probably know 100 each!
The knowledge brought back from Voyager has got to be so vast based on what we've seen (and not seen), you're right! Plus with tech like quantum slipstream, it would be cool to see a show set in the early 25th century like Star Trek Online that showcases how that knowledge is integrated into Starfleet vessels.
Probably hundreds of thousand not mentioned because they are pre warp, way too advanced or in enemy territory.
And this doesn't even cover the races that are hidden or non-corporal ones or the dead ones that have disappeared completely.
Could you have Borg Jemhadar?
Are we alone in the galaxy? Maybe.
Are we alone in the universe? Absolutely not.
Ok this literally proved my point that this man is Vsauce 4
OK, I'm super curious about this - all of the shots of Star-Trek serieses in these videos look strange to me, like they are somehow sharper or less TV like and more camcorder-like, am I the only one who sees it like this? If I'm not alone in noticing this, why is it?
I don't agree with the percentage of the galaxy being much higher after accessing the Gamma and Delta quadrants. The Dominion restricted travel in their space, so most of it was left uncharted and unshared. Voyager tore through space in a relatively straight line, making detours around unfriendly territories etc etc. Even if you add the Equinox's logs, that's still not a lot of space that's been visited. However with the Protostar drive in Prodigy that may no longer be a thing. It's also a question as to how much of the galaxy is known in Discovery's 4th season.
Some are mentioned in dialogue but are never seen on screen.
I think species 8472 was a relativity new discovery for the borg. There's a hard number to work with atleast.
Big fan of Star Trek but why they don't put on seat belts in space otherwise the med technology is way too amazing
Star Trek is ,"Soft Disclosure ". Fact of business, those of us paying attention understand that said disclosure isn't actually all that soft. Great video and commentary.
Let’s just say for arguments sake that 1% of stars in our galaxy have planets orbiting them (which for the record I know is wrong). Now let’s say 1% of those plants are inhabitable. If 1% of those inhabitable planets have life on as or more advanced than us. That’s still hundreds if not thousands of life forms
I wanna go on a video road trip with you and Lorerunner. I’ll buy the gas. Y’all hook that up for me . We can take my Toyota. Llap 🖖
👽
Like the UN with its 175+ Countries? The Galaxy would fall apart with that type of Republic.
Star trek estimates are way off. If we assume that all life has similar requirements (it's not an entirely accurate assumption but even then the alternatives are limited, there are only so many possible chemical reactions), then factor in all of the specific circumstance for life, then the odds of intelligent life, plus the specific biological factors needed to actually use that intelligence (for example dolphins and elephants have the capacity to be intelligent but lack the necessary biology to use it), the correct atmosphere to allow technological development, then factor in all of the answers to fermi paradox and you get around 100 to a few thousand intelligent species per galaxy depending on how you work it out and that's over the enormous time period where complex life can exist, even if we aren't alone in our galaxy it's completely possible that we'd still never know over any other intelligent species because they all exist either before us or after us. As for unintelligent life the number could be vastly higher.
If the galaxy was as populated with intelligent life as it was in the star trek universe humanity would have known that it wasn't alone way before the events of first contact, especially if there were several giant empires near to it, something like that is impossible to hide.
I mean borg designations go over 10000
428?
The keplar mission found 1, maybe. Turns out our sun is really quiet and calm compared to other stars it's size. You're starting from a flawed premise.
My estimate is one. I think we're alone in the galaxy. My guess is that life is rare and almost entirely microbial. Complex life would be several orders of magnitute rarer. Sapient life would be orders of magnitude rarer than that.
Basically, I would wager that the number of sapient species to have ever evolved in the observable universe to this point is in the single digits with the actual count being closer to one than ten.
Personally, I dearly hope I'm wrong. The thought that we are alone is not a pleasant one. I would much prefer the universe be teeming with life.
I tend to think that you may be correct, though I also hope I'm wrong. I explore these numbers in more detail in the sequel to this upload coming Friday.
The probability is likely a lot higher than you think. We really have very little data to work with when it comes to life beyond Earth but what we do know suggests it may be common. The elements present in life here are among the most abundant in the known Universe. Organic compounds, water, terrestrial planets and such that we believe to be necessary are also a lot more common than once believed--and that's just for life as we know it. We are carbon based and need water, but that's not the only possible combination. Elements and compounds found even within our solar system could allow for life that isn't based on carbon and water necessity. It could even happen here, we could be sharing the planet with sentient rocks and not know it because we wouldn't recognize it as 'life'.
Then there's environmental considerations. Here on Earth we have found not only life but entire ecosystems thriving in conditions lethal to almost everything else--conditions we know exist elsewhere.
And that's not touching on the insane numbed of places for life to evolve. Our own solar system has 8 major planets, several dwarf and minor planets, hundreds of moons, and thousands of asteroids and comets and we've landed probes on a very small, insignificant fraction of them with Mars being the only place in the entire Universe where we've actively looked for signs of life.
If our solar system is full of possible locations for life as we know it, you can safely bet others are too. There are an uncountable number of places in the Universe where life as we recognize it and otherwise to exist.
As for intelligent life. . .I'd have to check to be sure, but I believe it took 3 billion years or so for us to evolve on a planet that's just over 4 billion years old orbiting a star that's just slightly older. The Universe itself is, what, 13.8 to over 14 billion years old? There are much older stars and planets out there. Trillions of them, with each planet having millions or even billions of years longer to see the evolution of not just life but intelligent, advanced life.
The odds favor it.
@@fgutz1970 We think the odds favor it, we don't know that they do. I would prefer to live in a universe where you're right, though.
Ha V Sauce
Very Funny a lot of them are humanoid.
I don't think it's contrived that so many civilizations would be similarly warp capable at the same time. Sort of similar to saying it's a bit contrived so many Earth civilizations developed the internet at the same time. There's a lot of sharing and stealing tech going on , always.
True! Trade and communication are huge for technology.
Soooooooo, No actual answer then?
Only if you didn't watch the full video lol
Too many
1% is ridiculous It takes 3,000,000 years for humans to get to space I have full of civilizationsOr thousands of years or more.
Is this Universe. What is an alien. If a Vulcan is born on Earth are they still an alien?
math is wrong ...there are more planets than stars in a galaxy ..you see this pattern in nature...there is always more things always smaller ..more stars than galaxies...more planets than stars...etc
Each star is a “sun “ each sun have moons can have up to seven and each sun and moon have a galaxy so each star is apart of its own galaxy
If Trek contradicts Science, that only proves how much Science gets wrong. Trek Apologetics for Starters
Star Trek is often entirely invented by the whimsical fancies of (scientifically illiterate) producers and screenwriters.
Star Trek is often based on scientifically valid data - proven observations, theoretical expectations, or at least "plausible" predictions - as understood at the time of production - which is provided by scientifically informed and educated consultants.
I wouldn't say they are entirely scientifically illiterate but definitely not up to date on scientific findings. To be fair what we know about other civilizations in the universe is less about being up to date as it is about knowing the latest estimates from which we are taking a shot in the dark about. We know almost nothing in that regard, it's all completely hypothetical at this stage. There is still lots of room for interpretation, not that they are being entirely realistic about humanoid beings though, but their explanation for why they are so prevalent in the galaxy was a good one. Even we might find it practical to seed the galaxy that way someday.
Well, Trek was created when we just plain knew a lot less, *particularly* about exoplanets. No one was even very sure there'd be any at all, but it was considered likely.
🐑🐑🐑🐑🐑🐑🐑🐑🐑
"Inhabited by countless thousands." XD
Inhabited by the intersection set of -- uncountable infinity, and ~1,000? Sounds like it's a .. specifically counted number, that can be counted -- it's countable. Unless you count 1,.... 2,...., 6,...17,... INFINITY! ... that statement seems kinda lulz.