Hi Scott i'm a retired auto mechanic/ racer. I have found the only meaningful way to test plugs is in a running engine with an oscilloscope monitoring each plug. The plug firing voltage in a running cylinder could be tens of kilovolts depending on engine load, mixture, timing, plug lead condition, spark plug condition. A tester like a multimeter won't tell you meaningful info, you might as well replace the plugs. If it was an automotive system with temp problems i'd be looking for insulation breakdown, electronics breakdown or fuel pressure issues. good luck.
You make outstanding content. I’ve been an A&P for quite a while and worn out plugs are definitely a top culprit for hard starting. As A&P you often have to start different types of airplanes after it was just flying. A trick I use if i can’t get a hot start to take is to prime the engine and attempt a flooded start procedure. This usually works as a back up.
Reference your Electroair electronic ignition...in my IO-520D the AFM Supplement specifies that it should be on prior to start. You might want to check the paperwork and/or call Electroair. Also, they recommend that the plugs fired by Electroair be gapped at .036”, unlike the recommended .016”-.021” gap on mag fired plugs. It is a good idea to check the plug resistance at each annual or plug cleaning. The spec resistance, if you have an Ohm meter, is 5K Ohms maximum. The plug resistance should be checked AFTER cleaning for the proper resistance reading.
Thanks Manny for the pointer. I'm not too sure the Ohmmeter develops the voltage required to get an adequate resistance check on the plug. That's the primary reason I use the Tempest Plug Resistance checker.
@@FlyWirescottperdue You will end up with the same problem. Next change go with Tempest! Champion plugs have replaceable resistors. Poor design. In the last 20 years champion plugs have gone down hill so fast in quality!
I've got two airplanes running the ElectroAire EI system. I have the EI unit firing the bottom plugs, and I use fine wire plugs on those bottom plugs that are fired by the EI (gapped to the ElectroAire recommendation). The EI fires the bottom bank to keep the fouling to a minimum and it works great. I can toggle off the conventional magneto and have zero RPM drop on just the ElectroAire plugs.
I'd be interested to see how your new plugs do on a real hot start (after a flight rather than a ground start and stop). I always had issues with hot starts with my big Continentals until I learned to run the boost pump and watch the fuel pressure needle....it will rise, fall off as vapor gets "circulated" from heat-soaked components, then rise again as cool fuel from the tank refills the entire system. That's when I'd do my normal start. Seemed to work, but I also moved to Iridium plugs from the massive electrodes so not really a controlled test.
Excellent knowledge sharing as always. I don't suppose you filmed the adjustment of the timing, another good vid topic. Anyhow, seems to have fixed the problem. Happy flying.
Scott The ElectroAir plugs are special. They have a wider gap than standard plugs. Also I’ve never seen any of the ElectroAir that requires it to be off for start. The current AFMS on their website for 6 cyl installs (REV 7 dated 07/19) calls for the system to be ON for start.
I did a video on it in the T6. But I can surely do it with the Bonanza... I actually prefer that kind of entry. I used curved final turns all the time.
Hey Scott. Great video. I’ve been a tester with EMAG and have had incredible results. I’m not sure it’s certified yet, but you might contact them. Dallas area. It’s used on the start. Anyway if I can help feel free to contact me.
Hey Scott, would an in-flight mag check have helped you diagnosed a weak spark plug before giving you trouble on start? I’m just thinking out loud as I’m trying to learn more about systems. Thanks for the video!
rmulchi- good question. I think the inflight mag check does a good job of diagnosing a mag/ wiring problem, but not so good diagnosing a bad plug. At least that has been my experience.
Mr. Purdue, I’m just curious about two things. (1) What is the requirement about changing from 2-blade to 3-blade props (I think it involves noise control)? At 2700 RPM, the tips of the longer 2-blades break the sound barrier causing the growling sound on takeoff. (2) How are you maintaining that mirror-image spinner surface? Your spinner deserves a big Wow!
Robin- Horsepower is the main reason to switch to a 3 blade prop. Noise can be a factor, but the ability to absorb the horsepower from the engine is primary. The props found on T-6's and Skywagons with seaplane props are the longest and the tips are approaching supersonic.... they aren't actually breaking the sound barrier. Thanks for the comment on the spinner. It's in great shape and I use a liquid chrome polish with a foam cone driven by a battery powered electric drill.
Brandon- A good idea... and I did one: th-cam.com/video/FfJ8y3iuYpY/w-d-xo.html If you want to get into the theory checkout Martin Pauly's video on LOP. He does a good job.
FlyWire- scott perdue Yep that’s one of the 1st videos of yours I watched.....used thy technique last weekend when I flew up to see a father/daughter subscriber we meet at the ACCA!
I found that opening the cowling as soon as I shut down really helps with the hot start. It keeps the heat from pooling around the top of the cowling and heating up the fuel lines.
I use your stoichiometric sweet spot approach from your other video....sadly it helped me finish off an aux fuel pump...part of my issue. This is also great info...do you know what the resistance threshold is?...as i assume you could use a multimeter? Also, I used my JPI 830, my data And the upload charting tool at savvy aviation to detect an intake manifold gasket crack once.....which was my starting issue at the time : apps.savvyaviation.com/articles/in-flight-diagnostics
Hi Scott i'm a retired auto mechanic/ racer. I have found the only meaningful way to test plugs is in a running engine with an oscilloscope monitoring each plug. The plug firing voltage in a running cylinder could be tens of kilovolts depending on engine load, mixture, timing, plug lead condition, spark plug condition. A tester like a multimeter won't tell you meaningful info, you might as well replace the plugs. If it was an automotive system with temp problems i'd be looking for insulation breakdown, electronics breakdown or fuel pressure issues. good luck.
You make outstanding content. I’ve been an A&P for quite a while and worn out plugs are definitely a top culprit for hard starting. As A&P you often have to start different types of airplanes after it was just flying. A trick I use if i can’t get a hot start to take is to prime the engine and attempt a flooded start procedure. This usually works as a back up.
Thank you! That technique is in my bag of tricks as well.
Reference your Electroair electronic ignition...in my IO-520D the AFM Supplement specifies that it should be on prior to start. You might want to check the paperwork and/or call Electroair. Also, they recommend that the plugs fired by Electroair be gapped at .036”, unlike the recommended .016”-.021” gap on mag fired plugs.
It is a good idea to check the plug resistance at each annual or plug cleaning. The spec resistance, if you have an Ohm meter, is 5K Ohms maximum. The plug resistance should be checked AFTER cleaning for the proper resistance reading.
Thanks Manny for the pointer. I'm not too sure the Ohmmeter develops the voltage required to get an adequate resistance check on the plug. That's the primary reason I use the Tempest Plug Resistance checker.
Are these champion plugs? They have become the worst plugs to use!
They are indeed Champions... and I replaced them with Champions;)
@@FlyWirescottperdue You will end up with the same problem. Next change go with Tempest! Champion plugs have replaceable resistors. Poor design. In the last 20 years champion plugs have gone down hill so fast in quality!
I've got two airplanes running the ElectroAire EI system. I have the EI unit firing the bottom plugs, and I use fine wire plugs on those bottom plugs that are fired by the EI (gapped to the ElectroAire recommendation). The EI fires the bottom bank to keep the fouling to a minimum and it works great. I can toggle off the conventional magneto and have zero RPM drop on just the ElectroAire plugs.
Stephen- That's the way the EI is setup on Charlie.
Mike Busch uses an in flight stress test for ignition, works great.
I use it as well. Seems to work well for mags and plug wires, not as effective diagnosing bad plugs.
Great info!
I'd be interested to see how your new plugs do on a real hot start (after a flight rather than a ground start and stop). I always had issues with hot starts with my big Continentals until I learned to run the boost pump and watch the fuel pressure needle....it will rise, fall off as vapor gets "circulated" from heat-soaked components, then rise again as cool fuel from the tank refills the entire system. That's when I'd do my normal start. Seemed to work, but I also moved to Iridium plugs from the massive electrodes so not really a controlled test.
Excellent knowledge sharing as always. I don't suppose you filmed the adjustment of the timing, another good vid topic.
Anyhow, seems to have fixed the problem. Happy flying.
Thanks! I figured adjusting the timing would be boring.
Scott
The ElectroAir plugs are special. They have a wider gap than standard plugs.
Also I’ve never seen any of the ElectroAir that requires it to be off for start.
The current AFMS on their website for 6 cyl installs (REV 7 dated 07/19) calls for the system to be ON for start.
Thanks Joel, my install states that it be off for start.
All that means is that your AFMS needs to be updated as well.
Hi Scott, have considered doing a video on flying an over head pattern in the Bonanza ?
I enjoy doing the occasionally when traffic permits.
Jim
I did a video on it in the T6. But I can surely do it with the Bonanza... I actually prefer that kind of entry. I used curved final turns all the time.
if 100% of my plugs failed i'd be staring long and hard at the testing device...
Checked it out.... I was born the day before yesterday.
Hey Scott. Great video. I’ve been a tester with EMAG and have had incredible results. I’m not sure it’s certified yet, but you might contact them. Dallas area. It’s used on the start. Anyway if I can help feel free to contact me.
Thanks for the info!
Hey Scott, would an in-flight mag check have helped you diagnosed a weak spark plug before giving you trouble on start? I’m just thinking out loud as I’m trying to learn more about systems. Thanks for the video!
rmulchi- good question. I think the inflight mag check does a good job of diagnosing a mag/ wiring problem, but not so good diagnosing a bad plug. At least that has been my experience.
Mr. Purdue, I’m just curious about two things. (1) What is the requirement about changing from 2-blade to 3-blade props (I think it involves noise control)? At 2700 RPM, the tips of the longer 2-blades break the sound barrier causing the growling sound on takeoff. (2) How are you maintaining that mirror-image spinner surface? Your spinner deserves a big Wow!
Robin- Horsepower is the main reason to switch to a 3 blade prop. Noise can be a factor, but the ability to absorb the horsepower from the engine is primary. The props found on T-6's and Skywagons with seaplane props are the longest and the tips are approaching supersonic.... they aren't actually breaking the sound barrier.
Thanks for the comment on the spinner. It's in great shape and I use a liquid chrome polish with a foam cone driven by a battery powered electric drill.
@@FlyWirescottperdue You should consider a video on polishing the spinner. I predict it will be very popular with Bonanza owners.
Good idea
Can yOu do a video on leaning mixture?
Brandon- A good idea... and I did one: th-cam.com/video/FfJ8y3iuYpY/w-d-xo.html
If you want to get into the theory checkout Martin Pauly's video on LOP. He does a good job.
What was the gap on the old plugs? how far out of spec was the gap, if any?
Didn't check the gap... the plug failed the resistance check. At that point gap doesn't matter.
Hot starts on a fuel injected engine is my bane....
Have I got a technique for you... previous video in the Just Bonanza Playlist... How to do a Hot Start!
FlyWire- scott perdue
Yep that’s one of the 1st videos of yours I watched.....used thy technique last weekend when I flew up to see a father/daughter subscriber we meet at the ACCA!
@@Parr4theCourse Awesome! On both counts.
I found that opening the cowling as soon as I shut down really helps with the hot start. It keeps the heat from pooling around the top of the cowling and heating up the fuel lines.
Av8rMark
Yep, but sorry I wasn’t clear, I fly a 182T and the best I can do is open the oil dip-stick door....helps some......
I use your stoichiometric sweet spot approach from your other video....sadly it helped me finish off an aux fuel pump...part of my issue. This is also great info...do you know what the resistance threshold is?...as i assume you could use a multimeter? Also, I used my JPI 830, my data And the upload charting tool at savvy aviation to detect an intake manifold gasket crack once.....which was my starting issue at the time : apps.savvyaviation.com/articles/in-flight-diagnostics
Sometimes there are several issues to resolve that kinda interfere with each other. Keep hunting them down!