You two seem to be the biggest ambassadors for the game at the mo. I hope GW recognise that. And you've got the honesty to say that you don't need to buy everything. I've got some painting to do and I few people I haven't seen for a while to arrange matches with.
I love that we have moved to nemesis, i've been playing it this way for years now (with the decks out of the boxes at least, until the nemesis decks were released) and it's loads better than constructed, I tried to get a friend into that years ago and his eyes glazed over the second i told him to be competitive he would likely need to buy every single expansion box, some just for 1 or 2 cards.
I really love the idea of competition that forces creativity through limitations. Championship encourages a "get all the good cards in one deck" mentality where Nemesis feels creative. What kinds of synergies could I make with these limitations? In the GW box game Bladeborn, the campaign mode has the winner gain a strength and a handicap, making for an interesting little best of three game. I'd love to see something like that in Underworlds. That said, I would love to see you guys walk through the process of building a nemesis deck, talking outloud from idea, to creation, to playing. As a newer player, it's useful to get a sense of how to think about strategy as most Underworld's content likes to just judge cards and warband as "good" or "bad, which isn't particularly helpful. Thanks for all you do gang. 🤜🤛
Nice video! Started "recently" and I agree Nemesis is the format to go. It doesnt require a lot of deck construction which can be intimidating to some players (ppl not used to card games f.e.) and Nemesis allows you to remove weak cards from your warband deck for other, more useful ones. It makes every band better thus narrowing the gap between them. Some bands will stil be ahead though. I've enjoyed Rivals but imho its too imbalanced and some matches are just a bad experience. Been destroyed by Hexbane and Gnarlspirits with ease. 😅 I've also had games where playing a warband with a "modern" rivals deck (f.e. Fearsome Fortress) I had no trouble scoring over 10 Glory while my daughter playing Morgwaeth did pretty much nothing as her warband's deck pretty much relied on luck/dice (i.e. killing) to inspire and earn glory.
I've played Morgwaeth's Blade Coven quite a bit. They are very fragile but very mobile. Only their leader hits hard. The rest are meh as aggro fighters. Oddly enough they do have a lot of objective cards that reward killing (you score when your leader kills, when you take out someone on an objetive, when you take out someone FROM an objetive, when you kill dealing the exact amount of damage...). I've tried 2 approaches. Go the aggro route and combine with Tooth&Claw to get more damage and accuracy. Or forgo the aggro way and combine with Fortress. You are very mobile and can try playing the objetive game. Focus on defensive tech and gambits.
Yeah rivals can be a little imbalanced but it’s pick up and playability is definitely a solid bonus and with later warbands/rivals decks getting more solid it’s becoming a better option, but nemesis is definitely king for us
Nemesis is the best format. It allows to keep the warband's character, and a bit of limited deckbuilding. Time will tell however if obvious neckdecks will arise; say you take a warband and a given rivals deck, will most final decks built from the combination of those two, all look alike? The other problem is that GW are making the decks and are force feeding a breakneck rotation. GW are notoriously bad at writing rules; just look at how bad the first rivals decks were or on the other hand the difference between the Gnarlspirit pack and...well, most other warbands, or how Mollog was OP for so long. It isn't so much that GW are doing it on purpose, it's more that they don't have the time or money to playtest properly. Yet on the other hand they're pushing out so much so rapidly. We don't need so much churn, there's plenty of stuff to play with already.
We still love Rivals the best due to the pick up and play component, but Nemesis seems to be the best option for clashes. Very excited to see the game continue to grow as it is.
Rivals definitely has its benefits though it’s a little more unbalanced when looking back at the earlier seasons. But it’s pick up and playability is definitely a big selling point!
Left Underworlds couple years ago, too many cards, too many warbands that were necessary to buy. In the meantime i invented my own format to play at home with some competitiveness in mind but also being able to play with 2 people and only 1 collection. I'm happy to see that now official Underworlds has a similar format to mine, it means i was on the right path😂 instead of rivals decks(that didnt existed back then) i use warband specific cards+ essential card pack as my card pool for the decks.
Yes that's a pretty good way to do things. The new format is good because you can pick up warbands piecemeal and many of them have some really interesting design choices.
@@AgentsofSigmar i will inform better on all the rival decks strategies to better understand them. One thing that i really didnt understand was the choice to change the back of the cards... now you cant play older warbands with newer cards without colored card sleeves right? Also are the rivals decks rotating? So are some already banned from matched play?
@@Frubs97 Yeah. The changing the card backs was an absolutely terrible idea. I've no idea why they did it. If you're playing casually, sleeves aren't essential. Pete and I regularly just mix and match. As we change warbands every week, we never learn our decks well enough to know what the different card backs might mean in game terms. Rotation about the rivals decks isn't entirely clear, there has been one deck rotate out so far, I think, but as it was rubbish, nobody minds too much. The Direchasm and Nethermaze decks might start to rotate in 6 months, but they're not very strong either. Much as as rotation will be annoying. At the current rate of 8 a year, not rotating them will mean the game starts to get cluttered again.
Not that you needed to convince me, but great vid gents! It's a much better play experience overall compared to championship. I don't need to buy everything, but I certainly did! 🤣
I like you comment regarding beck building, choosing the least bad card for a Nemesis deck feels as important as chosing the best card for a Championship one. I kept getting distracted by your board, it seems you replayed the Gorechosen vs Wurmspat match, did Nurge performed better or should I just stop painting my minis and stuck them back in the box?
Hahaaa! That’d be telling, don’t worry the video will be out in a few days for you to see for yourself! 😉 it’s a good thing you can see the glory piles in those shots! 😮😂
@@AgentsofSigmar Now there's a thought for the next tournament at Entoyment Poole Dorset towards the end of this month. No one expects this green horde to be any good
Have they announced the rotation for Nemesis yet? I believe there are currently 4 Decks available + the new one fearsome fortress? but I know illusionary might isnt available on the GW site anymore, so was wondering if they were going to rotate some. Equally fearsome fortress isnt listed yet in the official Nemesis guide, so is that legal for events?
Well technically not for Fearsome Fortress, I guess. I think there's an event at WHW soon, so I would expect an update prior to that. There's no official word on the Harrowdeep rotation. I would expect them to rotate.out the boxes 6 months at a time. Not sure what happens after that. Seems a shame to rotate out the plot card decks, but I guess they'll soon start piling up!
@@AgentsofSigmar Yeah I don't mind them piling up a bit, as long as they are still purchasable, it kinda sucks that you cant get hold of illusionary might but its still a valid deck for play. I had a feeling they were going to keep 4 decks live at any time to keep it simple, so when fearsome fortress goes live illusionary might goes away kinda thing.
@@ajtame Yeah, we might go to 8, as each quartet of warbands has a rivals deck with it in each 6 month releases span. I'm guessing they'll rotate out 6 months at a time. Which means after Harrowdeep and Nethermaze are gone, we'll gain 4 but lose 4 each 6 months. Of course the ideas and releases have been all of the place since UW inception, so it wouldn't surprise me if GW tinker with the schedule yet again.
Well, I have to somewhat disagree. (long post ahead) I don't think Nemesis is bad, it could've been a cool format for the new players, a nice gateway. The problem here is that for the Nemesis to be introduced, GW is riding the Championship format to the ground. And that doesn't sit well with the Champs players, who are used to flexing their brains over the deckbuilds, searching for the best plays and new card synergies. And I don't blame them, they were, after all, promised "The ULTIMATE competitive game". It's what's on the box. You had to buy everything to stay competitive? Sure, it's a competitive game. It's on the box. You had to spend some time mastering the deck and playstile to play with others and win? Sure. It's a competitive game. It's on the box. And suddenly now it's half what it was to be. And the worst part is: The Champs players don't really have a choice. Because Relic is hardly that. And it's all about choice. You see, for me it's like with a restaurant: If you sit down and have 30 options on the menu it might be confusing or exhausting to choose something while on the other hand if there are 3 options? Perfect! Two seconds, no fuss, you know what you want. The problem is that if you'll eat in that same place for a year, even while spicing things a bit and mixing the salads, you'll get sick of those three dishes. And that's what might happen with the format - people will just get bored. Even while mixing the few existing rivals decks with the plethora of bands. There are only so many ways to construct a deck for it to be satisfying to play. You were astonished about the fact that so many people attended Bugman's Nemesis. But what else would they attend? There are people who love the game and want to compete in UW and the main event is Nemesis, so they will play that format. Not because it's so fun.. I might be wrong of course, but the only way to see what people like best, would be to give them a choice of the format and see which one is more popular. As long as it's not done, I wouldn't say Bugman's attendance is conclusive evidence of preference. What happened at the Bugman's Nemesis greatly illustrates the problem with the Nemesis format. You said what happened at Bugman's was a variation I would say it was adaptation. Exactly how players themselves created Rivals+ format, cause GW's Rivals was ridiculous, they now decided to adjust to the game and poor design choices. At first most people took Gnarlspirit with Tooth and claw, it dominated the tournament. During the next one only one player went with GSP. I think that the playersrealised two important things: 1. How badly designed the GSP band is. 2. How the games will look if they all play the best possible build. They realised it's playing the same game over and over again, which is exactly what will happen in Nemesis format in the long run. The lack of diversity in the cards and decks is one thing but if you'd like to play competitively you'll just have 2-3 options. The Championship format had the same issue but thanks to the variety of cards, there were ways to mitigate that. During the last Polish Team Championships there were lots of GSP, everyone knows they are good, but there were countermeasures because the format allowed it. Here, instead, the format only works if the players agree not to play something and that's what happened. Don't know if it was the organisers choice or the players but it was a decision. Btw. The one person who took the Gnarlspirit went with just the faction cards, without any supporting deck and still got the 7th place, out of 48 players 😃 Great and balanced design GW yay! 🙂 Monetary investment stays quite the same cause they changed the sales model for this. You are using more from the less, and you'll still probably buy everything the range has to offer. Either because you're a collector, a completionist, or you're plain bored with playing with what you have after some time and would like to see how one of the three dishes taste with a different dressing. I still see the change of the sales model as a greedy cashgrab but that's just a personal opinion. It's a long post, sorry, but I wanted to show a bit of a different perspective. We can all agree to disagree 🙂 Hope I didn't sound too aggressive at times and that it's understandable as ENG is not my native language. Maybe I'm wrong, maybe it's what helps the game and not runs it to the ground. Maybe the amount of new players who will come AND STAY will be bigger than the amount of disgruntled people who leave. Maybe this format is what brings UW into the future. For a Champs player it feels like changing a remote controlled car to a rock with wheels painted on it but well, we'll see. In a year or so we will all know the state of the game. To sum up: Nemesis would've been okay if it wasn't aggressively introduced as something that will get rid of the Champs. We'll see how it works in the future. Cheers guys, thanks for bringing us UW content! :)
Wow! That is a long comment! Thanks for taking the time to make it. I don't agree that the game is less interesting in Nemesis. Most of the time championship has been alive one or two "dishes" have prevailed at any one time, but also skewed to certain warbands, so even less to taste. The cash-grab I don't really see either. My guess is we won't have the extra packs of rivals decks this season, so at the end of the day we end up we'll up with slightly fewer cards for the same amount of money as we paid previously. A sizeable percentage of cards have never seen play time over the years, so whilst we might have owned the cards they didn't provide better value for money. I do wish GW hadn't said "The Ultimate Competitive Miniatures Game" lots of people seem to think it actually means something rather than marketing hyperbole. Also, people seem to forget it's "miniature" not "card" game. It's still competitive game. It also can't be true that more cards=more competitiveness. As why not double or even treble the card pool? It would make the game better, right? I think the extra couple hundred cards have the game the mirage of extra competitiveness but if this game only ever came with two decks that you could combine, each time, I think everybody would have been just fine with that. I know it's not a perfect analogy but one I come back to time and again, chess has no cards but it's remained competitive for quite some time. Ultimately (ahem)! I guess, GW are a miniatures company, that's what they do best. Their main customers want plastic not card. There's no point making a game nobody wants to buy. At the end of the day which is the most competitive, a game with a play base of a hundred or one with 1000s? Maybe you can't build a killer deck in your bedroom, but ultimately, there'll be more people to have excellent games with on the tabletop. For me, that's what it's all about. Or would be, if I didn't only ever play Pete!
I see it as championship is killing the game, barely anyone in my FLGS or GW ever played underworlds anymore, it had become niche and only the die hard champ players bothered anymore, a group that was also drastically dying out with no fresh blood coming in. Rivals and nemesis however are the opposite, lots are playing it again and it's picking up new blood also. If GW are killing champ off quickly then I see that as cutting off a rotten limb to save the host. Something needed to happen or the game was going to die entirely.
@@ajtame but what should champ players do (like myself) which actually want MTG like experience from the game and not Keyforge one? Goes against our nature of having an actual deck building?
![[LIVE] MCHOICE & MINT AWARDS 2024 at TRUE ICON HALL, ICONSIAM](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/wMewUeT5nbY/mqdefault.jpg)
You two seem to be the biggest ambassadors for the game at the mo. I hope GW recognise that. And you've got the honesty to say that you don't need to buy everything.
I've got some painting to do and I few people I haven't seen for a while to arrange matches with.
New subscriber here. This video is exactly what I needed to hear to get excited about underworlds again. You guys are killing it!
I was at the last bugmans clash, finished 6th out of 48 with the Crimson Court 😊
Fantastic work! Maybe one day our paths will cross! 😄🤞
I love that we have moved to nemesis, i've been playing it this way for years now (with the decks out of the boxes at least, until the nemesis decks were released) and it's loads better than constructed, I tried to get a friend into that years ago and his eyes glazed over the second i told him to be competitive he would likely need to buy every single expansion box, some just for 1 or 2 cards.
I really love the idea of competition that forces creativity through limitations. Championship encourages a "get all the good cards in one deck" mentality where Nemesis feels creative. What kinds of synergies could I make with these limitations?
In the GW box game Bladeborn, the campaign mode has the winner gain a strength and a handicap, making for an interesting little best of three game. I'd love to see something like that in Underworlds.
That said, I would love to see you guys walk through the process of building a nemesis deck, talking outloud from idea, to creation, to playing. As a newer player, it's useful to get a sense of how to think about strategy as most Underworld's content likes to just judge cards and warband as "good" or "bad, which isn't particularly helpful.
Thanks for all you do gang. 🤜🤛
Nice video! Started "recently" and I agree Nemesis is the format to go. It doesnt require a lot of deck construction which can be intimidating to some players (ppl not used to card games f.e.) and Nemesis allows you to remove weak cards from your warband deck for other, more useful ones. It makes every band better thus narrowing the gap between them. Some bands will stil be ahead though.
I've enjoyed Rivals but imho its too imbalanced and some matches are just a bad experience. Been destroyed by Hexbane and Gnarlspirits with ease. 😅 I've also had games where playing a warband with a "modern" rivals deck (f.e. Fearsome Fortress) I had no trouble scoring over 10 Glory while my daughter playing Morgwaeth did pretty much nothing as her warband's deck pretty much relied on luck/dice (i.e. killing) to inspire and earn glory.
I've played Morgwaeth's Blade Coven quite a bit. They are very fragile but very mobile. Only their leader hits hard. The rest are meh as aggro fighters. Oddly enough they do have a lot of objective cards that reward killing (you score when your leader kills, when you take out someone on an objetive, when you take out someone FROM an objetive, when you kill dealing the exact amount of damage...). I've tried 2 approaches. Go the aggro route and combine with Tooth&Claw to get more damage and accuracy. Or forgo the aggro way and combine with Fortress. You are very mobile and can try playing the objetive game. Focus on defensive tech and gambits.
Yeah rivals can be a little imbalanced but it’s pick up and playability is definitely a solid bonus and with later warbands/rivals decks getting more solid it’s becoming a better option, but nemesis is definitely king for us
I'm gone try go back to the game. I think you make some great points and i really hope i will like it again.
Gnaelspirit has certainly reinvigorated us so hopefully it does for you too! 😊🤞
Great Vid. Keep up the awesome content!
Thankyou we will! 😊
Nemesis is the best format. It allows to keep the warband's character, and a bit of limited deckbuilding. Time will tell however if obvious neckdecks will arise; say you take a warband and a given rivals deck, will most final decks built from the combination of those two, all look alike?
The other problem is that GW are making the decks and are force feeding a breakneck rotation. GW are notoriously bad at writing rules; just look at how bad the first rivals decks were or on the other hand the difference between the Gnarlspirit pack and...well, most other warbands, or how Mollog was OP for so long. It isn't so much that GW are doing it on purpose, it's more that they don't have the time or money to playtest properly. Yet on the other hand they're pushing out so much so rapidly. We don't need so much churn, there's plenty of stuff to play with already.
We still love Rivals the best due to the pick up and play component, but Nemesis seems to be the best option for clashes. Very excited to see the game continue to grow as it is.
Rivals definitely has its benefits though it’s a little more unbalanced when looking back at the earlier seasons. But it’s pick up and playability is definitely a big selling point!
@@AgentsofSigmar that's an excellent point actually and one I had missed.
Left Underworlds couple years ago, too many cards, too many warbands that were necessary to buy. In the meantime i invented my own format to play at home with some competitiveness in mind but also being able to play with 2 people and only 1 collection. I'm happy to see that now official Underworlds has a similar format to mine, it means i was on the right path😂 instead of rivals decks(that didnt existed back then) i use warband specific cards+ essential card pack as my card pool for the decks.
Yes that's a pretty good way to do things. The new format is good because you can pick up warbands piecemeal and many of them have some really interesting design choices.
@@AgentsofSigmar i will inform better on all the rival decks strategies to better understand them. One thing that i really didnt understand was the choice to change the back of the cards... now you cant play older warbands with newer cards without colored card sleeves right?
Also are the rivals decks rotating? So are some already banned from matched play?
@@Frubs97 Yeah. The changing the card backs was an absolutely terrible idea. I've no idea why they did it. If you're playing casually, sleeves aren't essential. Pete and I regularly just mix and match. As we change warbands every week, we never learn our decks well enough to know what the different card backs might mean in game terms. Rotation about the rivals decks isn't entirely clear, there has been one deck rotate out so far, I think, but as it was rubbish, nobody minds too much. The Direchasm and Nethermaze decks might start to rotate in 6 months, but they're not very strong either. Much as as rotation will be annoying. At the current rate of 8 a year, not rotating them will mean the game starts to get cluttered again.
Not that you needed to convince me, but great vid gents! It's a much better play experience overall compared to championship. I don't need to buy everything, but I certainly did! 🤣
It doesn’t feel as bad buying it all when it feels optional at least 😂
@@AgentsofSigmar if only my gotta catch 'em all mentality believed that 😂
Could I still use Steelhearts Champions or Magore’s Fiends?
Definitely! We've used both recently on the channel!
@@AgentsofSigmar how does it work now then, can I still use their original warband cards in combination with the rival decks from Gnarlwood?
Yes. Or the two from Harrowdeep/Nethermaze, though those probably aren't as good.
I like you comment regarding beck building, choosing the least bad card for a Nemesis deck feels as important as chosing the best card for a Championship one. I kept getting distracted by your board, it seems you replayed the Gorechosen vs Wurmspat match, did Nurge performed better or should I just stop painting my minis and stuck them back in the box?
Hahaaa! That’d be telling, don’t worry the video will be out in a few days for you to see for yourself! 😉 it’s a good thing you can see the glory piles in those shots! 😮😂
Is there any hope for the return of Ironskull's Boyz
you never know, they might do ok with tooth and claw, if the axes can make a go of fearsome fortress then there must be some hope right?! 😄
@@AgentsofSigmar Now there's a thought for the next tournament at Entoyment Poole Dorset towards the end of this month. No one expects this green horde to be any good
Have they announced the rotation for Nemesis yet? I believe there are currently 4 Decks available + the new one fearsome fortress? but I know illusionary might isnt available on the GW site anymore, so was wondering if they were going to rotate some. Equally fearsome fortress isnt listed yet in the official Nemesis guide, so is that legal for events?
Well technically not for Fearsome Fortress, I guess. I think there's an event at WHW soon, so I would expect an update prior to that.
There's no official word on the Harrowdeep rotation. I would expect them to rotate.out the boxes 6 months at a time. Not sure what happens after that. Seems a shame to rotate out the plot card decks, but I guess they'll soon start piling up!
@@AgentsofSigmar Yeah I don't mind them piling up a bit, as long as they are still purchasable, it kinda sucks that you cant get hold of illusionary might but its still a valid deck for play. I had a feeling they were going to keep 4 decks live at any time to keep it simple, so when fearsome fortress goes live illusionary might goes away kinda thing.
@@ajtame Yeah, we might go to 8, as each quartet of warbands has a rivals deck with it in each 6 month releases span. I'm guessing they'll rotate out 6 months at a time. Which means after Harrowdeep and Nethermaze are gone, we'll gain 4 but lose 4 each 6 months. Of course the ideas and releases have been all of the place since UW inception, so it wouldn't surprise me if GW tinker with the schedule yet again.
Rivals+ is better!
Gnarlwood was the worst expansion by far.
Because?
Well, I have to somewhat disagree. (long post ahead)
I don't think Nemesis is bad, it could've been a cool format for the new players, a nice gateway. The problem here is that for the Nemesis to be introduced, GW is riding the Championship format to the ground.
And that doesn't sit well with the Champs players, who are used to flexing their brains over the deckbuilds, searching for the best plays and new card synergies. And I don't blame them, they were, after all, promised "The ULTIMATE competitive game".
It's what's on the box. You had to buy everything to stay competitive? Sure, it's a competitive game. It's on the box.
You had to spend some time mastering the deck and playstile to play with others and win? Sure. It's a competitive game. It's on the box.
And suddenly now it's half what it was to be. And the worst part is: The Champs players don't really have a choice. Because Relic is hardly that.
And it's all about choice. You see, for me it's like with a restaurant: If you sit down and have 30 options on the menu it might be confusing or exhausting to choose something while on the other hand if there are 3 options? Perfect! Two seconds, no fuss, you know what you want. The problem is that if you'll eat in that same place for a year, even while spicing things a bit and mixing the salads, you'll get sick of those three dishes. And that's what might happen with the format - people will just get bored. Even while mixing the few existing rivals decks with the plethora of bands. There are only so many ways to construct a deck for it to be satisfying to play.
You were astonished about the fact that so many people attended Bugman's Nemesis. But what else would they attend? There are people who love the game and want to compete in UW and the main event is Nemesis, so they will play that format. Not because it's so fun.. I might be wrong of course, but the only way to see what people like best, would be to give them a choice of the format and see which one is more popular. As long as it's not done, I wouldn't say Bugman's attendance is conclusive evidence of preference.
What happened at the Bugman's Nemesis greatly illustrates the problem with the Nemesis format.
You said what happened at Bugman's was a variation I would say it was adaptation. Exactly how players themselves created Rivals+ format, cause GW's Rivals was ridiculous, they now decided to adjust to the game and poor design choices. At first most people took Gnarlspirit with Tooth and claw, it dominated the tournament. During the next one only one player went with GSP. I think that the playersrealised two important things:
1. How badly designed the GSP band is.
2. How the games will look if they all play the best possible build.
They realised it's playing the same game over and over again, which is exactly what will happen in Nemesis format in the long run. The lack of diversity in the cards and decks is one thing but if you'd like to play competitively you'll just have 2-3 options. The Championship format had the same issue but thanks to the variety of cards, there were ways to mitigate that.
During the last Polish Team Championships there were lots of GSP, everyone knows they are good, but there were countermeasures because the format allowed it.
Here, instead, the format only works if the players agree not to play something and that's what happened. Don't know if it was the organisers choice or the players but it was a decision.
Btw. The one person who took the Gnarlspirit went with just the faction cards, without any supporting deck and still got the 7th place, out of 48 players 😃 Great and balanced design GW yay! 🙂
Monetary investment stays quite the same cause they changed the sales model for this. You are using more from the less, and you'll still probably buy everything the range has to offer. Either because you're a collector, a completionist, or you're plain bored with playing with what you have after some time and would like to see how one of the three dishes taste with a different dressing.
I still see the change of the sales model as a greedy cashgrab but that's just a personal opinion.
It's a long post, sorry, but I wanted to show a bit of a different perspective. We can all agree to disagree 🙂 Hope I didn't sound too aggressive at times and that it's understandable as ENG is not my native language.
Maybe I'm wrong, maybe it's what helps the game and not runs it to the ground. Maybe the amount of new players who will come AND STAY will be bigger than the amount of disgruntled people who leave. Maybe this format is what brings UW into the future. For a Champs player it feels like changing a remote controlled car to a rock with wheels painted on it but well, we'll see. In a year or so we will all know the state of the game.
To sum up: Nemesis would've been okay if it wasn't aggressively introduced as something that will get rid of the Champs. We'll see how it works in the future.
Cheers guys, thanks for bringing us UW content! :)
Wow! That is a long comment! Thanks for taking the time to make it.
I don't agree that the game is less interesting in Nemesis. Most of the time championship has been alive one or two "dishes" have prevailed at any one time, but also skewed to certain warbands, so even less to taste.
The cash-grab I don't really see either. My guess is we won't have the extra packs of rivals decks this season, so at the end of the day we end up we'll up with slightly fewer cards for the same amount of money as we paid previously.
A sizeable percentage of cards have never seen play time over the years, so whilst we might have owned the cards they didn't provide better value for money.
I do wish GW hadn't said "The Ultimate Competitive Miniatures Game" lots of people seem to think it actually means something rather than marketing hyperbole.
Also, people seem to forget it's "miniature" not "card" game. It's still competitive game. It also can't be true that more cards=more competitiveness. As why not double or even treble the card pool? It would make the game better, right?
I think the extra couple hundred cards have the game the mirage of extra competitiveness but if this game only ever came with two decks that you could combine, each time, I think everybody would have been just fine with that.
I know it's not a perfect analogy but one I come back to time and again, chess has no cards but it's remained competitive for quite some time.
Ultimately (ahem)! I guess, GW are a miniatures company, that's what they do best. Their main customers want plastic not card. There's no point making a game nobody wants to buy.
At the end of the day which is the most competitive, a game with a play base of a hundred or one with 1000s? Maybe you can't build a killer deck in your bedroom, but ultimately, there'll be more people to have excellent games with on the tabletop. For me, that's what it's all about. Or would be, if I didn't only ever play Pete!
I see it as championship is killing the game, barely anyone in my FLGS or GW ever played underworlds anymore, it had become niche and only the die hard champ players bothered anymore, a group that was also drastically dying out with no fresh blood coming in. Rivals and nemesis however are the opposite, lots are playing it again and it's picking up new blood also. If GW are killing champ off quickly then I see that as cutting off a rotten limb to save the host. Something needed to happen or the game was going to die entirely.
Hard agree!
@@ajtame but what should champ players do (like myself) which actually want MTG like experience from the game and not Keyforge one? Goes against our nature of having an actual deck building?
@@blacksabbath9631 play MTG?