I noticed that you never mentioned the high-pitched voices of the vulture droids. Surely the funny voices could talk shit at the rebel pilots and demoralize them.
Palpatine hated any form of power that wasn't under his direct control. A drone force would only answer to Palpatine indirectly via their programmers. He would inevitably suspect them of having hidden directives to betray him. A sentient being can be intimidated, indoctrinated, or mind-controlled in a way that Palpatine understood and trusted.
@@RandomGuy-lu1enthe AT AT was mobile artillery and thus needed the long legs. And its stability was actually pretty good, considering that Rebells depicting an AT TE ramming against it to no avail. And droids are bad in warfare, because they lack complex thinking and tactical flexibility, only highly expensive droids are viable which cannot be produced en masse. TCW literally showed a few hundred Guerillqs liberating their planet from the Droid army.
@@RandomGuy-lu1en You might be right! I certainly don't claim to be an expert on George Lucas. That being said, the whole point of this video series is to analyze the Empire's decisions from an "in-universe" perspective. It's fun to think about Star Wars as if it was a "real" setting instead of a fictional one.
@Etzelsschizo Why would it need long legs to be artillery? Forget real life artillery, there are 2 examples of artillery (only 1 I'd really consider mobile, though) that use indirect fire (the thing that makes something be artillery instead of a tank or assault gun). Those being the Republic's mass-driver cannon, which seems to be immobile while firing, and the Separatist's "super tank," which is pretty much just a really tough MLRS. The AT-AT, which is direct fire only, is by definition not artillery. It could be a tank, IFV, or assault gun, but definitely not artillery.
I'm glad Allen touched on the loyalty aspect. That's something I think the GAR struggled with a lot more than we really see. With the clones grown and trained in a secret facility, and the Jedi leading them being warrior-monks who mostly keep themselves as separate from the everyday life of the galaxy as possible, most people would have very little personal connection to the Republic. Unless the war showed up on their doorstep, most beings would naturally feel the whole mess was ultimately someone else's problem. If a news headline screams about a thousand Clones dying on some planet you never heard of, then sure, that sounds awful - but it's not like you actually knew any of them, it happened on the other side of the galaxy, and Coruscant only seems to care about your opinions when the planetary senator is up for election, so you may as well finish lunch and get on with your shift. Under the Empire, though? Even if you're not in uniform yourself and never come within a hundred lightyears of a Star Destroyer, personal connections like Adan your old school friend, Macks your cousin from two cities over, and Hana the cute girl who grew up next door - all of whom signed on the Empire's dotted line after graduation - mean the Empire's war is _your_ war in ways the Clone War could never be.
I've said this for years. Don't replace sentient soldiers with droids, add droids to the soldiers lower ranks. Basically you can give direct command of 2 droids per soldier. The higher the rank or ability gets a higher level of Droid. With pre loaded tactics that droids would be able to implement along with custom ones the soldiers make that'd be hugely successful. It'd Basically make the soldiers organic tactic bots. They'd be great support and you're not extremely worried about loss of life. It'd make a 5 man squad actually 15 strong. I would do the same in the air, every tie gets 2 droid wingmen. Humans are a resource you want to save, but the ability to strategize on the go is key. Therefore you'd have less human losses while growing the military by two thirds. Even when it comes to logistics, you have droids to deter Pirates and rebal hits bc they're now more protected i.e. instead of two men you now have two me and four droids. You get the math. It makes sense.
@uriellima9193 They only needed a command centers earlier into the clone wars, they ended up fixing that after Naboo, that's why they ended up with the wacky AI. Recruits were cheaper than droids but not as good as clones. Take the clones at lower amounts, still appeasing the Kaminoans, train them all as commanders. A fully outfitted B1 was around $2k and in space it's actually cheaper to use droids. The tie alone is around $60k where as the droids were around $40k and were smaller, faster and more maneuverable. Also price doesn't matter if you don't have a large enough military to fight. This would increase the manpower by 66% almost over night, specifically bc they already had the infustructure already in place after the clone wars that was basically abandoned. Add in the saving of already established clones like Rex and Cody instead of just killing them off, which they did alot of with basically kamikaze missions. Even if you wanted to integrate human recruitment, they'd just slowly have them replace clones as they died or aged out. Probably starting by just adding them to the squad like a apprentice to a jedi.
The US is working on the air thing rn. They plan to have 2-3 little drones for each pilot either to help them or be used to run head first into any missiles the pilot can’t avoid
My dream team was a single heavy fighter/bomber with two seats (pilot, and drone manager) that has heavy shielding and armor, like an up-armored Y-Wing or V-Wing, with its payload replaced with communications systems; pair it with a compliment of 4-7 droid fighters, with modular weapon systems depending on what role you need those droids to play. That way you get the best of both worlds, and you don't risk half your fleet shutting down just because a command ship was destroyed (and you still get to skimp on droid brain costs). So now you have swarms of disposable droid fighters, but their controllers are spread across the battlefield, and you can still have other flights to either help protect the controllers, or perform precision strikes. I don't think you want to go with a lighter frame for a squad command fighter because the intent is to not lose pilots, but cannon armor/shields...suck, so it would definitely have to be something researched and developed as to what frame would best suit the role.
the biggest advantage of droid fighters. from the assembly line they're ready to fight. that is, if munitions and ordonnance are added at factory (which is such a palpatine thing to do), if not, still quicker to restock and rearm than a normal fighter, because people pilots need rest especially from a high intensity sortie. droid fighters, just restock and rearm, recharge if recharge is needed, refuel if fuel is needed. and away you go. plus you can just bang them out much faster in most cases, because you don't need ergonomics or a meat seat.
It makes sense at that point. Politics and the opinion of the public are really no longer at play, the Empire has had decades to reverse engineer the droid fighter AIs, and they have a crapton of resources but a shortage of manpower. So slot Droid AI 'A' into surplus TIE fuselage 'B' and get terrifying World Devastator Swarms 'C'.
@@Etzelsschizo And if you gave them an adaptable AI and made them a support unit for organic pilots to command, that would deal with their shortcomings. That's the point. :P
@@Khornecussion but that's not possible in the Star wars universe, every faction is constantly memory wiping their droids to avoid droid uprisings. And when the droids gain sentience, you cannot force them to die for you any more
@@Etzelsschizodroids in Star Wars are unusually complacent and docile compared to AI in other works of fiction, even when faced with severe discrimination they don’t usually seek a union of resistance. they are unusually positive & dependent like say heavily domesticated dogs, the “droid brain” lacks the adaptability or autonomy of real A.I otherwise they would’ve wiped out organics like it was nothing The CIS droids for example were the most aggressive the “droid brain” ever got yet some lower forms of it were ridiculously gullible & clueless in war, some flat out serious scenes in Rots where there is no comedy relief have the B1 being silent and simply move-shoot towards the enemy
Shame that Kalani didn't join the Rebel Alliance because he'd be a useful ally when formulating tactics, reactivating any Separatist droid factories to use for his rebel cell and work alongside Captain Rex as old vitriolic comrades.
I believe he did formally join the Rebel Alliance after the destruction of the first Death Star, as by then, he calculated that the rebels stood a chance of actually winning.
Aye, that historical rise of the empire video is a must. Same with the video of their peak(Fallen Order&Survivor). As well as the early Rebels and insurrectionist (Andor/Rebels. Then the fall/the galactic Civil War of the empire and rise of the New Republic as they go hand an hand.
Personally the doctrine I've always considered with the droid starfighters is to have a handful of tri fighters assigned as escorts/wingmen to individual medium/heavy multirole starfighters that still have organic pilots. You get the cheap production cost and terrifying dogfight skills of the tri fighters while keeping the flexibility and unpredictability of an organic, whose fighter can be better equipped with the credits saved by using tri fighters.
Actually, Palpatine did use Droid piloted TIE/D automated fighter, or droid/drone TIE fighter in the Dark Empire (the original story where Palpatine returned via cloning which The Rise of Skywalker ripped off) storyline in LEGENDS! I would love to hear your thoughts on what if Sienar Fleet Systems had developed TIE/D automated fighters during the Galactic Civil War! I mean using Clone Wars Era droid fighters are problematic from a political point of view, but an Imperial made droid fighter could be a useful asset to deploy while the Empire focuses on training new pilots to replace those lost on the Death Star or due to promotion!
The biggest missed opportunity in Star Wars is Mechs. All the technology is there, we see halfassed version of Mechs with all the walkers, but a Mech as tall as a TIE Fighter, armed as a superiority fighter with a shield and hyperdrive, that’s a droid commanded by a pilot, is a variable geometry fighter craft that is also a tank, a ship destroyer, an escort, heavy reconnaissance, and carrier friendly. It’s whatever you equip it to be, it fixes the Walker Problem.
It would also be incredibly expensive and resource-intensive to produce in effective numbers. Also, Palps obviously never trusted any AI systems that weren't intimidated by him and/or under his direct control...
@@charlestaylor253 Costs that same as an X-Wing, which is the same as three TIE Fighters. If you build them based on a TIE, you get a slightly more expensive TIE with 3x the survivability while being more maneuverable and multi-roled so you use them in ground assaults, anti-aircraft, and as tanks. There’s no droid better than one used as mount for a highly loyal elite pilot.
Im also not sure how good the Empire's cyber security was. Its unlikely an entire squadron gets hacked but if just one gets hacked in the middle of an operation, or worse during take off, that thing could do some serious damage
Droid fighters existed in the empire! There once was a lego star wars set „tie fighter collection set 10131“ with 4 ships which included a „droid tie fighter“ with a removable droid brain
A good idea be a mix fleet of Tie and droids fighters. Much like the real life loyal wingman program. Have each tie with two or so droids "wingmen" that stick with them and like. Also in legends there was two Droid Tie programs. One by Admiral Zarin using remotely control ties which use droid brain as back up and learn from the pilots. And the TIE droid which was used by Palptine final order I mean the Dark Empire and was spat out by the bucket load by World Devastators.
Had not thought of the Attrition of type of crew on the Death Star. Thought about the people lost but not their specific MOS. Which kinda short sited on my part. Thanks for this point of view Alan. 👍🏼👍🏼👍🏼🌹
You don't seem the mention the Tie Droids from the expanded universe here. Those were sort of cool though of course as with most things introduced in the expanded universe they were in only 1 series. Still imagine what would have happened at the battle of yavin if the skin of the death star had been covered with vulture droids.
Honestly I think one thing that Star Wars doesn’t really touch on is the idea of cyber warfare being more prevalent in modern times all in Star Wars we always see hacking as connecting directly to the computer rather than from far away in the real world so I honestly think that realistically if the republic made a computer virus and infected the droid army the war would have been much easier.
Remote Drones...If you want highly skilled pilots and disposable ships without droid prooganda getting in the way, use remote controlled tie-drones from console rooms in star destroyers. That way if your ship dies you keep the pilot and they can't defect. like a video game they just "respawn" at the hangar as another tie is unloaded from the rack, which you could even make external of the ship. Then your highly ranked officers that you trust not to defect you can put into a tie-defender.
i havent started the video but the most logical answer to the question would be cost and abilities, The electronics made for a droid could be more expensive than recruiting a civilian that has the posibility of having prior expeirence and become an "ace" or squadron leaders
When ever I played Star wars Battlefront 2 Classic (the original) I always liked to play the CIS. (Mostly because they cool and) They are more or less the victims even before the Clone Wars began. It is to sad to see ones good intentions being abused for someone's personal gain. Irony, right.
The TIE fighters were actually based on Vulture Droids and designed to emulate their primary tactic, which was to get really far away and zoom in with a barrage of blaster fire while moving too fast to track, zooming off before anything could be done about it, then looping around for another pass. The problem is that A) As you mentioned, g forces were not a problem for droids, but TIE fighters can't use that strategy because moving that fast would kill the pilots B) Because of the corners they had to cut, the pilots had to look through a hamster tube with a helmet on, whereas droids had full, unobstructed vision, allowing them to dogfight effectively if they needed to. These to things combined into a fighter that couldn't even do what it was designed to do and was terrible for dog fights. This is why I take issue with your comment about TIE Fighters being a great ship. They're not. They're absolute trash.
I remember this from the legends canon with the weird dark droid fighters Palpatine used in the Dark Empire, I think it was. Palpatine implanted organic brains into droid fighters for the purpose of being able to reach out and control them through the force, apparently. It's far-fetched, even thinking back on it now, but if it's true, cool. If not, still cool, but regardless.
Could have sworn The Empire used Tie/D as Endor and a few pther battles near the end of the Galatic Civil War. They had smaller cockpit pods, and they had these unique boxy solar panels
I imagine that as soon as the Clone Wars came to an end, it wasn't simply the Republic military bases, weapons' depots, ordnance stockpiles, and hangar bays that were rebranded as Imperial armour, weapons, and vehicles - but those of the Separatists too. I'm sure that the Empire, in the fragile state it was in during the aftermath of the Clone Wars, made a point capture every leftover droid factory, military base, etc. that filled with all of this expensive hardware, and find a way to incorporate them into the new military in such a way that Imperial clones and the Imperial citizens who had been on Republic-aligned worlds during the war didn't really have any contact with them. For example, the E-5 blaster rifle could be issued to clones and new recruits alike, even though they were the standard weapon of the B1 battle droid. The same goes for ground vehicles and non-droid starfighters like the STAP, the AAT, the rogue-class starfighter, the sheathipede shuttle, etc. I could even see the MTT as a repulsorlift substitute / predecessor for the AT-AT if it's front section is retrofitted to match the more angular Imperial aesthetic, its interior is gutted to efficiently carry a few troops and supplies, and it's given a classic Imperial stark-grey lick of paint. To some extent, I'm sure that the Imperials were able to find a use for most of the battle droids and automated-vehicles that they were able to salvage; such as repainting and rebranding them and re-using them to police, patrol, and protect the very planets that had been aligned with the Separatists during the war. Like the clones, not creating more of them - but using the resources which were clearly in large supply.
Imagine , Order 66 fails , Palapatine escapes to his CIS and Occupies half the galaxy , CIS factories are on Mass production , no micro managing by Palapatine , Kuat is under Palpy too soo , ISDs with CIS droid fighters !
The imperial navy didnt use droid starfighters because the idea wasnt introduced in a movie until the application of drones in the real world, which was well after Return of the Jedi.
One of the best ways they actually could have used is like here on earth a wingman program have 1 pilot command a flight of 1 to 3 droid fighters. Use propaganda to so that your pilots are in control and have great leadership and management skills to fly with these droids make the pilots look even better while also doubling or even quadrupling your force
I find it so fascinating, and i kinda love it, that some of the deepest world building of any francise is mostly due to two intertwined factors: 1. George Lucas was able to delve deep into humanities subconscious and find the right archetypes to weave into this wonderful tale. 2. He was also kinda crappy at consistent writing and lore. Now fans like Alan are able to use all the massive plot holes, logical inconsistencies and contradictory aspects that Lucas left behind and turn them into something far more interesting! And I don't think this would be possible if Lucas had actually kept the whole thing consistent and logically sound.
That is a nice 1/3 of the price of the machine and the space in the hangar, so it would be nice to replace 3x as many vultures, but even so I would add that it does point defenses primarily in important places, the tower and near the hangar and the realtor (Kosek za dome)
Has anyone ever explained why technology noticeably develops over a 50 year period when technology barely developed during the previous 4 millennia? I think the scale of time & the scale of population was one of the biggest things Lucas just couldn't get right.
I just love how what everyone is talking about is implemented in Ace Combat 7 (Neural net/Hugin&Muninn learning from allies and enemies, droid wingmen/literally what happens in the campaign)
You could also reduce the vulture droid cost by removing the join bits that it uses to walk but doesn't need for flight, at which point you could theoretically half the price of the vulture droid by basically doing to it what the empire did to the tie fighter
A effective stopgap compromise and great _'force multiplier'_ would be *loyal wingman* droid fighters. They dont replace Tie Fighter pilots, they are a tool that the Tie pilot commands and uses to increase their own lethality (and survivability). Each Tie pilot has several droid fighters that are assigned to that Tie Fighter, and act as escorts. Their job is to protect that Tie Fighter from enemy snubfighters attacking it and to destroy anything the pilot instructs them to. That would be popular with pilots, they now have a personal defensive fighter screen for each of them that's completely dedicated and selfless. And they have fire support when going after a target. It's not a sign they are being replaced or sidelined, it's a show of 'trust' and respect that they are being given control of such deadly tools. *And it would cut down on pilot losses.* If each Tie Pilot is suddenly their own flight leader with a team of droids, that's a lot more fighters available. As for the Droid Fighter itself, have Sinar build the space frame so that it resembles the Tie linage and isn't a CIS ship. Basing it on the Tie also simplifies logistics and allows commonality of facilities. Even a stripped down Tie with the cockpit used for a large ordinance load (and/or a turreted laser cannon) is an option.
I can appreciate the mindset that the creator of the Droid Fighters exhibited. I've long held to the philosophy that craft is king, and we show our allegiance to our community, countrymen, and species by the care and effort we imbue into the products and services we contribute to our shared economy. We should only ever really expect to get back from the system that which we are willing to contribute to the system. That's the manifestation of the principle of reciprocity. To only expect of others what we're to do ourselves is the embodiment of Emanuel Kant's "Categorical Imperative". It is at the intersection of those two ideas where we find the notion that the capacity for an individual to love is best demonstrated by the quality of the workmanship that they contribute to others.
Thing is the Empire did actually use droid TIEs. In Canon there's the Auto-Fighter used by Visler Korda on the Rekkana system before Lando ruined everything. In the old EU there's the TIE/D Automated Starfighter deployed during the Dark Empire era and it's said that the droid fighters of the Clone Wars became the basis for the TIE/D. There's also the Shadow Droid Interceptor, which... actually, you don't wanna know.
i think the main reason the Droid was nearly not used was because of the industrial capacity, the inferior effectiveness, and the need of the control and command center to control and order those droids. The clones were used mainly by the republic and were much more effective. there were also regular humans/aliens and such in the Republic army. when the empire took over, they still used the Clones and the humans/aliens which they had in a nearly endless capacity which seemed to have been cheaper than the droid. for the Death Star. As this battle station was newly built and without known threat, they probably did not prioritize the supplies of many fighters. those require a lot of supplies and each needs a whole crew to maintain it, a crew which would in turn need living space and food and such which might not be ready to accommodate them yet. the Deathstar was not supposed to fight a small fleet of fighters or a fleet of anything, the fighters were probably just used on the destroyer and various planets that had a more urgent need for them. it's not uncommon for a new aircraft carrier to wait to get their aircraft, sometimes serial months or even a year or two. i would not be surprised that the Death Star was just waiting to get his full fleet of fighters. which only a few were issued until more were available.
So basically, Palpatine decided to not replace the Imperial pilots and TIE-Fighters because he has no interests of becoming the puppet of his own military. Huh. For once, he did something right. He knows that if his own military is coming for him, he knows that he has no other choice but to let them takeover. And this was actually a thing in our world for so many times. The good examples are when the Roman troops of the Opsikion Thema decided to go against Imperator Anastasius II and declare a tax collector named Theodosius as the new Imperator during the voyage to Syria or when the Abbasid Caliphs after Caliph al-Mu'tasim to become nothing but the puppets of the Turkic slave soldiers that functioned as an army of private bodyguards for the Caliphs.
As an intermediate measure, it's possible that there could have been a mixed fleet with human pilots acting as squadron leaders for a semi-autonomous squad of droid fighters that could vastly multiply the strike power of each individual pilot. Stuff like the real-world Loyal Wingman program already seeing testing shows that this wouldn't be out of the question. With a few chips from cheap protocol droids, these fighters could take orders and issue intel verbally for the human pilots to use the same as if their squadron were organics.
During the CW the Vultures cost $40K but during the GCW it would’ve cost $20K. A ISD could stuff hundreds of VDSF in the bay and used hyperdrive equipped V-Wings and ARC-170s from warehouses.
Alright that’s fair, however: In the video itself it is stated that there are existing droid fighters left, even tho it is not viable to use them in combat, reverse engineering could be applied to them in order for the imperium to make their own new model of fighter droid. About the AI, we do know that the memory banks of the droids can be copied, same way R2 had a memory backup for C3PO; therefore one could Ctrl+C/Ctrl+V (probably easy said than done, still viable) and use the fighter droids’ AI as a base for an imperial fighter droid. Having a new model of droid non related to the separatists would also make it easier to keep the appearance and get around the restrictions, lying like a politician, saying something like: “It’s not a combat droid, it’s a type of drone with an integrated targeting AI” (basically a droid that’s easy to shut down. It’s like AI art, you can call yourself a pilot when the machine is actually doing all the work and you're just pressing like 3 buttons) About the problem of the empire wanting to keep the pilots on their side really doesn’t matter that much. What the empire could do it’s to replace with droids the lower ranks and the unskilled pilots and assign them into other labors like crew members of the star destroyers or cargo pilots. Keep the most skilled pilots and aces and make squadrons with them to keep control of the law enforcement and peacekeeping, while also putting them in charge of squads of “drones”, you can have like 3 human pilots leading a mixed squad of drones. The recruits won't have any knowledge of fighting if you straight up don’t train them for that role, so you just tell them that “the drones are going to do the horrible and dangerous job while they can work from the comfort of the capital ships because the empire cares about you” Even in the case of the desertor pilots joining the rebels, the training they received by the rebels couldn't be compared to the skills of the droids, we’re talking about someone with a couple hundred hours of flight against a superior number of war machines that were designed to fight against people that were born to go to war, it’s like putting a tiger against a restrained goat. In a regular star destroyer you can fit like 72 TIE fighters, if you can put 3 droids were you store a TIE, then it means that only in the hangar of the star destroyers you could fit over 200 droids, not counting a few on the outside of the ship, with those numbers of competent fighters you already won air superiority; So what if they got like 50 mediocre pilots? you have more droids than they have ships. I rest my case.
It seems to me that the best approach for the empire wouldn't be an either or scenario, but a Stragety that includes automated star fighters to support and augment the manned craft. You could avoid or at least alleviate some of the droid distrust by calling them drones or something. Build and program these droid fighters to fly with and follow the lead of human pilots in manned fighters. Every new pilot that is assigned to a ship gets one ot two droid fighters that act as wingmen. As they gain skill and proficiency they take charge of bigger wing groups. This way you could make the most from your human resources and still be able to sell the concept to the public as these droids are not completely autonomous, they are controlled by actual people.
Clickbait titles. Cancelled? Its primary story is finished. Season 2 would’ve added toda and plagueis sure, but the main thrust of the narrative is done. The fact that toxic fans celebrate this (no yoda or plagueis) once again proves fans don’t know what they want.
@@alecatnight1540 it has nothing to do with anything or anyone being toxic they said it themselves it's cancelled.. why else would Leslye.. say she hoped it got a 2nd season..
Well, what about supplementing the fighter corps with TIE droids? Creating a Seinar systems design team focused solely on AI R&D so that the TIE fighter could be equipped with an AI brain while still maintaining both the design of the TIE and keeping their flesh and blood pilots happy would give them a swarming advantage, as well as boosting their fighter tactics. The mistrust with droids would be a difficult issue to overcome. But if the imperial military was able to keep their big mouths shut, it might not even be a problem.
@@EGRJ Kind of. The empire mostly uses swarm tactics to overwhelm their opponents. The way I see it, why not program these different tactics into the Droid brains and give them a similar autonomy to the vulture droids. This way, human pilots can give out orders if need be, but in the heat of a dogfight, the droids can think for themselves. This would allow the TIE droids to maintain swarming tactics and keep the human pilots in control. Which would make use of ace pilots experiences and turn an entire TIE fighter wing into a dangerous foe for anyone to face. Of course you could still have fully human TIE wings and then some wings incorporate a few Droids and then some wings fully comprised of Droid with only a handful of veteran pilots. But it would save a lot of time and cost significantly less to produce the droids and Integrate them into your fighter wings.
i would argue that the star wars universe didn't do enough to nerve the potential for droids, yeah they do nerve them but they can just as easily outclass anything organic asside from a space wizard. perhaps droids could be vulnerable to sensor jamming or be susceptible to force disturbances which organics have developed a resistance to, i do like droids but mostly the B1's, they felt like they were in line with what a fantasy universe droid should be.
This is very like Japan 🇯🇵 in WW2. Went into the battle of midway with the best planes , best pilots more carriers and left the battle a spent force. Due to carrier design flaws (wooden decks) poor tactical decisions and some dam bad luck 🍀
I thought about the “see-charr”(I might spell wrong) and how they thought they would get closer to their god via building Starships; mabye a form of *Manifest Destiny* which is making great things for a higher being?
Alan, Never thought about the amount TIE-Fighter pilots lost on the DS-1 Station... that's insane. Big question tho: Why do we assume that the destruction of the DS-1 Station would plunge the Star Wars galaxy into a deep recession? It wasn't as if the station was producing anything of economic value. In fact, as both the biggest defense spending project ever, and as a planet destroyer... it would seem like it's destruction might actually improve Market outlooks... lol I'd think the destruction of a planet like Alderaan would actually have way more negative economic repercussions on the galactic economy, no?
...! Well! Nice to see this idea addressed. I can't be the only one to comment on that on more than one of these videos. Of course, once again, making the massive military-industrial complex inefficient simply to provide jobs only to then oppress the people so hard they rebelled anyway and exploited the inefficient militaries' weaknesses--well, that was just approaching the whole thing backwards. It's pointless to not use war droids to avoid provoking rebellions....only to do exactly that anyways... I acknowledge the points about not being to access the knowledge to make droid brains.
Dunno if the Droid Fighter Swarm tactic would a given the Rebel X & A Wings TOO TERRIBLY much fighter. Especially since most the Rebel Fighter Core's standard armaments was the sorta rapid fire guns that make short work of mass enemy formations if they dared group up. Like an enemy fighter formation. Something an X-Wing is not only good at its kinda Specialized in.
It's just plot dude! Since when did the empire care about what other people or even it's citizens think? From world devastators to droid tanks to dark troopers to droid tie the empire used droids in it's army and navy.
Other than what you said what is stopping the empire from taking say a few dozen droid starfighters apart to reverse engineer the fighter? Hell it could have been done for a lot of the older droid models to at least augment the empire military forces. The BX commando droid is the best example. Just have special teams that are comprised of of BX that work along side imperial ground forces. If they didn't do that then what stopping them from modding the TIE to replace the pilot with the droid fighter core. Yes you would lose out on the smaller size but you would then get a droid starfighter without the negative image. These are just a few ways to have gotten around the small problems.
Well instead of just mass replacement, what about using them more as unmanned wingman drones like we’re cooking up right now? Each TIE pilot can have a few attached to them keeping them covered from all angles and if needed, can take a turbo laser or missile for the living pilot. They could also be used as missile platforms allowing the TIE pilot to fire missiles off these drones due to the TIE’s own lacking armament. No need to fear replacement of living pilots, but rather they’re enhancing them. Alas, instead we just see some of the top trained pilots being themselves used as meat shields for their capital ships.
Despite the Galactic Empire's aversion to droids and non-human managed cooperations, the odd thing that was present before the Empire, but not during the Empire was smart munitions. If a K-2SO droids can be re-classified to legitimized their manufacture, why not precision beyond visual range (BVR) weapons?
I think Battle Meditation might have been another reason. It gave Palpatine much more control over forces loyal to him (however that works) but it didn't work on droids.
They should’ve used droids and droid Starfighters however as piloted drones. Takes the danger out. You can replace all the life support and pilot space with shields, weapons, ammo, and or sensors.
I could certainly see a droid fighter being a complement rather than a replacement for an organic pilot. Droid fighters could be deployed alongside regular ones to act as wingmen.
May have missed it but a droid fighter could also employ suicide tactics, putting fear in rebels as they have to something that had no fear of death, or would just crash into them
Palpatine: *blows up a mostly loyal planet with a superweapon just to show off* Also Palpatine: "We can't use droids, that would make us look bad. Oh, except in the infantry, we can have droids there. We'll call them Dark Troopers. It'll be great."
Coincidentally, TIE Droids made it into the new canon as Auto-fighters but they were deployed too little too late. If the Empire had assimilated all the Separatists' assets earlier and built their TIE Droid program as a continuation/adaptation of the Vulture & Tri-Fighter, the Rebels would've lost horribly. Swarms of TIE Vultures & TIE Tri-Fighters with legacy data from Clone Wars dogfighting sound quite frightening.
Interesting that nobody in the empire have thought of remotely controlled fighters - smaller spaceframe since it does not need to fit human inside, so it get's most of the benefits of the droid, it doesn't share the issue of AI (or battledroids) since it's controlled by a human, it's going to be cheap to manufacture, loosing does not kill the skilled pilot, which can continue the fight in the next unit as fast as it would take to deploy it, and there is no room for pilot to defect/run away, because they are working from within the star destroyer - never leave the ship, means cannot steal their fighter to run away. Sounds like a win-win-win solution for the empire.
The main problem that the Empire would have had with using these devices is they may have been easy to hack/splice into.... The other issue is there is always a risk of them going full scale chopper on them. Can you imagine a Stealth (2005) scenario on your hands? Especially if it was able to infect other droid ships? That just seems scary.
A combined arms Imperial Starfighter force would be terrifying. A mix of droid starfighters and human pilots in Tie Defenders would be unstoppable. Fill out the numbers with droids and leave the elite pilots to lead and make the split second decisions needed during combat. The droids could also be used exclusively to defend key ships and star systems while human pilots conduct long range missions with hyperdrive equipped fighters.
@@barbiquearea I see the value in cannon fodder, and I agree that droids are inherently good for that, but I prefer a less wasteful strategy in combat, so I prefer a durable tank that can soak damage while the smaller stuff deals with the objective. The droids can be so much more effective as a fighter screen if the enemy are focused on something else while the droids dismantle their formations and the human pilots destroy objectives.
He definitely could have used them for dedicated rebel hunting forces like Death Squadron where the organics in the force are small enough to not be a propoganda loss but the extra firepower could just crush any rebel fighters
goes to show how cocky the empire officers was about the Death Star. they really felt that snub fighters where no threat. if they lunch all of their tie fighters, the x-wings would never been able to make trench run.
Nicely explained. Too bad the Rebels probably had the same hangups on droids otherwise they could have used surplus battle droids to help fill out their numbers for ground troops and fighters.
I noticed that you never mentioned the high-pitched voices of the vulture droids. Surely the funny voices could talk shit at the rebel pilots and demoralize them.
They could’ve installed loudspeakers like the Nazis did with air raid sirens on the Stuka for maximum effect
@@whatthefish2082 A loudspeaker that plays "Ima firin mah lazerrrrrr" when it provides close air support and strafing runs
The vulture droids actually had deep voices in the prequels and I can't remember if they talked in the clone wars show
@whatthefish2082 in space?
@@whatthefish2082 Would only be good for in atmosphere combat. In space, despite movie sound effects, no one can hear you.
Palpatine hated any form of power that wasn't under his direct control. A drone force would only answer to Palpatine indirectly via their programmers. He would inevitably suspect them of having hidden directives to betray him. A sentient being can be intimidated, indoctrinated, or mind-controlled in a way that Palpatine understood and trusted.
@@RandomGuy-lu1enthe AT AT was mobile artillery and thus needed the long legs. And its stability was actually pretty good, considering that Rebells depicting an AT TE ramming against it to no avail.
And droids are bad in warfare, because they lack complex thinking and tactical flexibility, only highly expensive droids are viable which cannot be produced en masse.
TCW literally showed a few hundred Guerillqs liberating their planet from the Droid army.
@@RandomGuy-lu1en You might be right! I certainly don't claim to be an expert on George Lucas. That being said, the whole point of this video series is to analyze the Empire's decisions from an "in-universe" perspective. It's fun to think about Star Wars as if it was a "real" setting instead of a fictional one.
@Etzelsschizo Why would it need long legs to be artillery? Forget real life artillery, there are 2 examples of artillery (only 1 I'd really consider mobile, though) that use indirect fire (the thing that makes something be artillery instead of a tank or assault gun). Those being the Republic's mass-driver cannon, which seems to be immobile while firing, and the Separatist's "super tank," which is pretty much just a really tough MLRS. The AT-AT, which is direct fire only, is by definition not artillery. It could be a tank, IFV, or assault gun, but definitely not artillery.
that examines the low amount of A.I for even the star destroyers guns. for rebels they could not afford automated guns.
@@RandomGuy-lu1en Seems like an arbitrary distinction. What makes one idea "theorizing" and another idea "making stuff up"?
I'm glad Allen touched on the loyalty aspect. That's something I think the GAR struggled with a lot more than we really see. With the clones grown and trained in a secret facility, and the Jedi leading them being warrior-monks who mostly keep themselves as separate from the everyday life of the galaxy as possible, most people would have very little personal connection to the Republic.
Unless the war showed up on their doorstep, most beings would naturally feel the whole mess was ultimately someone else's problem. If a news headline screams about a thousand Clones dying on some planet you never heard of, then sure, that sounds awful - but it's not like you actually knew any of them, it happened on the other side of the galaxy, and Coruscant only seems to care about your opinions when the planetary senator is up for election, so you may as well finish lunch and get on with your shift.
Under the Empire, though? Even if you're not in uniform yourself and never come within a hundred lightyears of a Star Destroyer, personal connections like Adan your old school friend, Macks your cousin from two cities over, and Hana the cute girl who grew up next door - all of whom signed on the Empire's dotted line after graduation - mean the Empire's war is _your_ war in ways the Clone War could never be.
I love how Allan speaks like we are in the Star Wars galaxy. I don't know if it's intentional or not but its hilarious.
It's still real to me, damn it!
It's so convincing, lol.
We WON boys the acolyte has been cancelled!!
Who says we're not it was a long time ago and far far away might mean time?
you didn't know? Allan is from the Empire..
I've said this for years. Don't replace sentient soldiers with droids, add droids to the soldiers lower ranks. Basically you can give direct command of 2 droids per soldier. The higher the rank or ability gets a higher level of Droid. With pre loaded tactics that droids would be able to implement along with custom ones the soldiers make that'd be hugely successful. It'd Basically make the soldiers organic tactic bots. They'd be great support and you're not extremely worried about loss of life. It'd make a 5 man squad actually 15 strong. I would do the same in the air, every tie gets 2 droid wingmen. Humans are a resource you want to save, but the ability to strategize on the go is key. Therefore you'd have less human losses while growing the military by two thirds. Even when it comes to logistics, you have droids to deter Pirates and rebal hits bc they're now more protected i.e. instead of two men you now have two me and four droids. You get the math. It makes sense.
doid were more expensive than soldiers and needed a command center nearby or they did not work.
@uriellima9193 They only needed a command centers earlier into the clone wars, they ended up fixing that after Naboo, that's why they ended up with the wacky AI. Recruits were cheaper than droids but not as good as clones. Take the clones at lower amounts, still appeasing the Kaminoans, train them all as commanders. A fully outfitted B1 was around $2k and in space it's actually cheaper to use droids. The tie alone is around $60k where as the droids were around $40k and were smaller, faster and more maneuverable. Also price doesn't matter if you don't have a large enough military to fight. This would increase the manpower by 66% almost over night, specifically bc they already had the infustructure already in place after the clone wars that was basically abandoned. Add in the saving of already established clones like Rex and Cody instead of just killing them off, which they did alot of with basically kamikaze missions. Even if you wanted to integrate human recruitment, they'd just slowly have them replace clones as they died or aged out. Probably starting by just adding them to the squad like a apprentice to a jedi.
The US is working on the air thing rn. They plan to have 2-3 little drones for each pilot either to help them or be used to run head first into any missiles the pilot can’t avoid
My dream team was a single heavy fighter/bomber with two seats (pilot, and drone manager) that has heavy shielding and armor, like an up-armored Y-Wing or V-Wing, with its payload replaced with communications systems; pair it with a compliment of 4-7 droid fighters, with modular weapon systems depending on what role you need those droids to play. That way you get the best of both worlds, and you don't risk half your fleet shutting down just because a command ship was destroyed (and you still get to skimp on droid brain costs). So now you have swarms of disposable droid fighters, but their controllers are spread across the battlefield, and you can still have other flights to either help protect the controllers, or perform precision strikes.
I don't think you want to go with a lighter frame for a squad command fighter because the intent is to not lose pilots, but cannon armor/shields...suck, so it would definitely have to be something researched and developed as to what frame would best suit the role.
I find the too much sense you're making disturbing...
😏
Because “we don’t serve their kind here” is a common refrain after the Clone Wars.
the biggest advantage of droid fighters. from the assembly line they're ready to fight. that is, if munitions and ordonnance are added at factory (which is such a palpatine thing to do), if not, still quicker to restock and rearm than a normal fighter, because people pilots need rest especially from a high intensity sortie. droid fighters, just restock and rearm, recharge if recharge is needed, refuel if fuel is needed. and away you go. plus you can just bang them out much faster in most cases, because you don't need ergonomics or a meat seat.
In the comics Dark Empire fully robotic Tie were deployed
Great series
It makes sense at that point. Politics and the opinion of the public are really no longer at play, the Empire has had decades to reverse engineer the droid fighter AIs, and they have a crapton of resources but a shortage of manpower. So slot Droid AI 'A' into surplus TIE fuselage 'B' and get terrifying World Devastator Swarms 'C'.
Tie droids and shadow droids, though the former had cybernetic elements so that Palpatine had direct influence on them.
A vulture droid plus AI Neural Network equals instant win.
I suggest the tie engines well so it has longer then 30 minutes of flight compare to the Vultures fuel slug engines
That's why the Republic dominated most Space battles, droids are dumb
@@Etzelsschizo And if you gave them an adaptable AI and made them a support unit for organic pilots to command, that would deal with their shortcomings. That's the point. :P
@@Khornecussion but that's not possible in the Star wars universe, every faction is constantly memory wiping their droids to avoid droid uprisings. And when the droids gain sentience, you cannot force them to die for you any more
@@Etzelsschizodroids in Star Wars are unusually complacent and docile compared to AI in other works of fiction, even when faced with severe discrimination they don’t usually seek a union of resistance. they are unusually positive & dependent like say heavily domesticated dogs, the “droid brain” lacks the adaptability or autonomy of real A.I otherwise they would’ve wiped out organics like it was nothing
The CIS droids for example were the most aggressive the “droid brain” ever got yet some lower forms of it were ridiculously gullible & clueless in war, some flat out serious scenes in Rots where there is no comedy relief have the B1 being silent and simply move-shoot towards the enemy
Shame that Kalani didn't join the Rebel Alliance because he'd be a useful ally when formulating tactics, reactivating any Separatist droid factories to use for his rebel cell and work alongside Captain Rex as old vitriolic comrades.
I believe he did formally join the Rebel Alliance after the destruction of the first Death Star, as by then, he calculated that the rebels stood a chance of actually winning.
Love the Walken "Foo FIGHTERS" reference, 10/10.
We WON boys the acolyte has been cancelled!!
“LOYAL WINGMAN” the empire could have spun it several different ways
Keep human pilots for Law Enforcement, recon, long range strike missions, while using Droid Fighters for point defence and interception
@@weldonwin if the ISD carried two dozen tri-fighters on its hull….. XWing hit and run attack would be a thing of the past
Aye, that historical rise of the empire video is a must. Same with the video of their peak(Fallen Order&Survivor). As well as the early Rebels and insurrectionist (Andor/Rebels. Then the fall/the galactic Civil War of the empire and rise of the New Republic as they go hand an hand.
Personally the doctrine I've always considered with the droid starfighters is to have a handful of tri fighters assigned as escorts/wingmen to individual medium/heavy multirole starfighters that still have organic pilots. You get the cheap production cost and terrifying dogfight skills of the tri fighters while keeping the flexibility and unpredictability of an organic, whose fighter can be better equipped with the credits saved by using tri fighters.
bc the seperatists used droids
right?
Yeah. Some Videos are like "i have watched this ten Times in Eckhards ladder"
Yeah, but the empire approved of the dark trooper program and drone unmanned TIE fighters so… Not like they’re beyond using droids
Leading to a lot of hard feelings among the general population.
It would be a recruiting tool for the Rebels
@@BingoSpinkle-qi4rz sure but for the front facing image of the empire it makes little sense
Actually, Palpatine did use Droid piloted TIE/D automated fighter, or droid/drone TIE fighter in the Dark Empire (the original story where Palpatine returned via cloning which The Rise of Skywalker ripped off) storyline in LEGENDS! I would love to hear your thoughts on what if Sienar Fleet Systems had developed TIE/D automated fighters during the Galactic Civil War! I mean using Clone Wars Era droid fighters are problematic from a political point of view, but an Imperial made droid fighter could be a useful asset to deploy while the Empire focuses on training new pilots to replace those lost on the Death Star or due to promotion!
The biggest missed opportunity in Star Wars is Mechs. All the technology is there, we see halfassed version of Mechs with all the walkers, but a Mech as tall as a TIE Fighter, armed as a superiority fighter with a shield and hyperdrive, that’s a droid commanded by a pilot, is a variable geometry fighter craft that is also a tank, a ship destroyer, an escort, heavy reconnaissance, and carrier friendly. It’s whatever you equip it to be, it fixes the Walker Problem.
It would also be incredibly expensive and resource-intensive to produce in effective numbers. Also, Palps obviously never trusted any AI systems that weren't intimidated by him and/or under his direct control...
@@charlestaylor253
Costs that same as an X-Wing, which is the same as three TIE Fighters. If you build them based on a TIE, you get a slightly more expensive TIE with 3x the survivability while being more maneuverable and multi-roled so you use them in ground assaults, anti-aircraft, and as tanks. There’s no droid better than one used as mount for a highly loyal elite pilot.
@@charlestaylor253 Until he finds ways t directly control them via the dark side...
3:58 "One brave belter opened the ring for all of us!"
Do you know what movie that is from ?
@@franklyfettuccine4468 The Expanse
I am so impressed by your knowledge.
10:01 anyone else notice the sock instead of a mic cover?
Im also not sure how good the Empire's cyber security was. Its unlikely an entire squadron gets hacked but if just one gets hacked in the middle of an operation, or worse during take off, that thing could do some serious damage
Droid fighters existed in the empire!
There once was a lego star wars set
„tie fighter collection set 10131“ with 4 ships
which included a „droid tie fighter“ with a removable droid brain
In before Legends nerds mention the TIE droid fighters from Dark Empire.
does this not make you a Legends nerd?
Go, Allen, go!📣🥂🍻
A good idea be a mix fleet of Tie and droids fighters.
Much like the real life loyal wingman program.
Have each tie with two or so droids "wingmen" that stick with them and like.
Also in legends there was two Droid Tie programs.
One by Admiral Zarin using remotely control ties which use droid brain as back up and learn from the pilots.
And the TIE droid which was used by Palptine final order I mean the Dark Empire and was spat out by the bucket load by World Devastators.
Had not thought of the Attrition of type of
crew on the Death Star. Thought about the
people lost but not their specific MOS. Which kinda short sited on my part.
Thanks for this point of view Alan.
👍🏼👍🏼👍🏼🌹
You don't seem the mention the Tie Droids from the expanded universe here. Those were sort of cool though of course as with most things introduced in the expanded universe they were in only 1 series.
Still imagine what would have happened at the battle of yavin if the skin of the death star had been covered with vulture droids.
Tie fighter pilots look so cool!
To bad they are fighting ina literal flying garbage can.
@@florians9949 Or in the immortal words of Timmy Turner's father when describing the Striker Z: 'a screaming metal deathtrap.'
@@florians9949Not to mention how their chances of survival is limited
Honestly I think one thing that Star Wars doesn’t really touch on is the idea of cyber warfare being more prevalent in modern times all in Star Wars we always see hacking as connecting directly to the computer rather than from far away in the real world so I honestly think that realistically if the republic made a computer virus and infected the droid army the war would have been much easier.
Remote Drones...If you want highly skilled pilots and disposable ships without droid prooganda getting in the way, use remote controlled tie-drones from console rooms in star destroyers. That way if your ship dies you keep the pilot and they can't defect. like a video game they just "respawn" at the hangar as another tie is unloaded from the rack, which you could even make external of the ship. Then your highly ranked officers that you trust not to defect you can put into a tie-defender.
i havent started the video but the most logical answer to the question would be cost and abilities, The electronics made for a droid could be more expensive than recruiting a civilian that has the posibility of having prior expeirence and become an "ace" or squadron leaders
The Christopher Walken/Foo Figjters reference is the reason TH-cam exists and was absolutely genius.
When ever I played Star wars Battlefront 2 Classic (the original) I always liked to play the CIS. (Mostly because they cool and) They are more or less the victims even before the Clone Wars began. It is to sad to see ones good intentions being abused for someone's personal gain. Irony, right.
The TIE fighters were actually based on Vulture Droids and designed to emulate their primary tactic, which was to get really far away and zoom in with a barrage of blaster fire while moving too fast to track, zooming off before anything could be done about it, then looping around for another pass.
The problem is that
A) As you mentioned, g forces were not a problem for droids, but TIE fighters can't use that strategy because moving that fast would kill the pilots
B) Because of the corners they had to cut, the pilots had to look through a hamster tube with a helmet on, whereas droids had full, unobstructed vision, allowing them to dogfight effectively if they needed to.
These to things combined into a fighter that couldn't even do what it was designed to do and was terrible for dog fights.
This is why I take issue with your comment about TIE Fighters being a great ship. They're not. They're absolute trash.
I remember this from the legends canon with the weird dark droid fighters Palpatine used in the Dark Empire, I think it was. Palpatine implanted organic brains into droid fighters for the purpose of being able to reach out and control them through the force, apparently. It's far-fetched, even thinking back on it now, but if it's true, cool. If not, still cool, but regardless.
Could have sworn The Empire used Tie/D as Endor and a few pther battles near the end of the Galatic Civil War. They had smaller cockpit pods, and they had these unique boxy solar panels
This is a interresting topic
I imagine that as soon as the Clone Wars came to an end, it wasn't simply the Republic military bases, weapons' depots, ordnance stockpiles, and hangar bays that were rebranded as Imperial armour, weapons, and vehicles - but those of the Separatists too.
I'm sure that the Empire, in the fragile state it was in during the aftermath of the Clone Wars, made a point capture every leftover droid factory, military base, etc. that filled with all of this expensive hardware, and find a way to incorporate them into the new military in such a way that Imperial clones and the Imperial citizens who had been on Republic-aligned worlds during the war didn't really have any contact with them.
For example, the E-5 blaster rifle could be issued to clones and new recruits alike, even though they were the standard weapon of the B1 battle droid.
The same goes for ground vehicles and non-droid starfighters like the STAP, the AAT, the rogue-class starfighter, the sheathipede shuttle, etc.
I could even see the MTT as a repulsorlift substitute / predecessor for the AT-AT if it's front section is retrofitted to match the more angular Imperial aesthetic, its interior is gutted to efficiently carry a few troops and supplies, and it's given a classic Imperial stark-grey lick of paint.
To some extent, I'm sure that the Imperials were able to find a use for most of the battle droids and automated-vehicles that they were able to salvage; such as repainting and rebranding them and re-using them to police, patrol, and protect the very planets that had been aligned with the Separatists during the war.
Like the clones, not creating more of them - but using the resources which were clearly in large supply.
3:55 RIP Matteo
Maneo I believe
Imagine , Order 66 fails , Palapatine escapes to his CIS and Occupies half the galaxy , CIS factories are on Mass production , no micro managing by Palapatine , Kuat is under Palpy too soo , ISDs with CIS droid fighters !
The imperial navy didnt use droid starfighters because the idea wasnt introduced in a movie until the application of drones in the real world, which was well after Return of the Jedi.
I 🧡💛 Generation Tech
What about a TiE-D swarm with the tie defender used to maintain the human element of command and control over the squadron
One of the best ways they actually could have used is like here on earth a wingman program have 1 pilot command a flight of 1 to 3 droid fighters. Use propaganda to so that your pilots are in control and have great leadership and management skills to fly with these droids make the pilots look even better while also doubling or even quadrupling your force
I find it so fascinating, and i kinda love it, that some of the deepest world building of any francise is mostly due to two intertwined factors:
1. George Lucas was able to delve deep into humanities subconscious and find the right archetypes to weave into this wonderful tale.
2. He was also kinda crappy at consistent writing and lore.
Now fans like Alan are able to use all the massive plot holes, logical inconsistencies and contradictory aspects that Lucas left behind and turn them into something far more interesting!
And I don't think this would be possible if Lucas had actually kept the whole thing consistent and logically sound.
That is a nice 1/3 of the price of the machine and the space in the hangar, so it would be nice to replace 3x as many vultures, but even so I would add that it does point defenses primarily in important places, the tower and near the hangar and the realtor (Kosek za dome)
He could have used the entire droid army to do all the secret dirty work until they were exhausted.
Has anyone ever explained why technology noticeably develops over a 50 year period when technology barely developed during the previous 4 millennia?
I think the scale of time & the scale of population was one of the biggest things Lucas just couldn't get right.
th-cam.com/video/YYYgh4ae-qc/w-d-xo.htmlsi=98QEK0CAveM6q2f2
We basically talk about it here a bit
I just love how what everyone is talking about is implemented in Ace Combat 7
(Neural net/Hugin&Muninn learning from allies and enemies, droid wingmen/literally what happens in the campaign)
You could also reduce the vulture droid cost by removing the join bits that it uses to walk but doesn't need for flight, at which point you could theoretically half the price of the vulture droid by basically doing to it what the empire did to the tie fighter
Imagine modern technology in a tri-fighter. Millions of them could've overwhelmed the rebels in a matter of days/weeks.
A effective stopgap compromise and great _'force multiplier'_ would be *loyal wingman* droid fighters.
They dont replace Tie Fighter pilots, they are a tool that the Tie pilot commands and uses to increase their own lethality (and survivability).
Each Tie pilot has several droid fighters that are assigned to that Tie Fighter, and act as escorts. Their job is to protect that Tie Fighter from enemy snubfighters attacking it and to destroy anything the pilot instructs them to.
That would be popular with pilots, they now have a personal defensive fighter screen for each of them that's completely dedicated and selfless.
And they have fire support when going after a target.
It's not a sign they are being replaced or sidelined, it's a show of 'trust' and respect that they are being given control of such deadly tools.
*And it would cut down on pilot losses.*
If each Tie Pilot is suddenly their own flight leader with a team of droids, that's a lot more fighters available.
As for the Droid Fighter itself, have Sinar build the space frame so that it resembles the Tie linage and isn't a CIS ship.
Basing it on the Tie also simplifies logistics and allows commonality of facilities.
Even a stripped down Tie with the cockpit used for a large ordinance load (and/or a turreted laser cannon) is an option.
I can appreciate the mindset that the creator of the Droid Fighters exhibited. I've long held to the philosophy that craft is king, and we show our allegiance to our community, countrymen, and species by the care and effort we imbue into the products and services we contribute to our shared economy. We should only ever really expect to get back from the system that which we are willing to contribute to the system. That's the manifestation of the principle of reciprocity. To only expect of others what we're to do ourselves is the embodiment of Emanuel Kant's "Categorical Imperative". It is at the intersection of those two ideas where we find the notion that the capacity for an individual to love is best demonstrated by the quality of the workmanship that they contribute to others.
Thing is the Empire did actually use droid TIEs. In Canon there's the Auto-Fighter used by Visler Korda on the Rekkana system before Lando ruined everything. In the old EU there's the TIE/D Automated Starfighter deployed during the Dark Empire era and it's said that the droid fighters of the Clone Wars became the basis for the TIE/D.
There's also the Shadow Droid Interceptor, which... actually, you don't wanna know.
i think the main reason the Droid was nearly not used was because of the industrial capacity, the inferior effectiveness, and the need of the control and command center to control and order those droids.
The clones were used mainly by the republic and were much more effective. there were also regular humans/aliens and such in the Republic army. when the empire took over, they still used the Clones and the humans/aliens which they had in a nearly endless capacity which seemed to have been cheaper than the droid.
for the Death Star. As this battle station was newly built and without known threat, they probably did not prioritize the supplies of many fighters. those require a lot of supplies and each needs a whole crew to maintain it, a crew which would in turn need living space and food and such which might not be ready to accommodate them yet. the Deathstar was not supposed to fight a small fleet of fighters or a fleet of anything, the fighters were probably just used on the destroyer and various planets that had a more urgent need for them. it's not uncommon for a new aircraft carrier to wait to get their aircraft, sometimes serial months or even a year or two. i would not be surprised that the Death Star was just waiting to get his full fleet of fighters. which only a few were issued until more were available.
Legends did have a droid TIE design that saw limited use, if I recall correctly alongside the World Devastators.
So basically, Palpatine decided to not replace the Imperial pilots and TIE-Fighters because he has no interests of becoming the puppet of his own military. Huh. For once, he did something right. He knows that if his own military is coming for him, he knows that he has no other choice but to let them takeover.
And this was actually a thing in our world for so many times. The good examples are when the Roman troops of the Opsikion Thema decided to go against Imperator Anastasius II and declare a tax collector named Theodosius as the new Imperator during the voyage to Syria or when the Abbasid Caliphs after Caliph al-Mu'tasim to become nothing but the puppets of the Turkic slave soldiers that functioned as an army of private bodyguards for the Caliphs.
As an intermediate measure, it's possible that there could have been a mixed fleet with human pilots acting as squadron leaders for a semi-autonomous squad of droid fighters that could vastly multiply the strike power of each individual pilot. Stuff like the real-world Loyal Wingman program already seeing testing shows that this wouldn't be out of the question.
With a few chips from cheap protocol droids, these fighters could take orders and issue intel verbally for the human pilots to use the same as if their squadron were organics.
11:03 what show is this from? don't think i've seen this before xD
Clone wars? Bro where have you been?
I would have combined the best qualities of the Tie fighter with the Vulture Starfighter.
You made me do an auditory double take! Only a couple of syllables, but that wasn't a bad Christopher Walken...
During the CW the Vultures cost $40K but during the GCW it would’ve cost $20K. A ISD could stuff hundreds of VDSF in the bay and used hyperdrive equipped V-Wings and ARC-170s from warehouses.
Alright that’s fair, however:
In the video itself it is stated that there are existing droid fighters left, even tho it is not viable to use them in combat, reverse engineering could be applied to them in order for the imperium to make their own new model of fighter droid. About the AI, we do know that the memory banks of the droids can be copied, same way R2 had a memory backup for C3PO; therefore one could Ctrl+C/Ctrl+V (probably easy said than done, still viable) and use the fighter droids’ AI as a base for an imperial fighter droid.
Having a new model of droid non related to the separatists would also make it easier to keep the appearance and get around the restrictions, lying like a politician, saying something like: “It’s not a combat droid, it’s a type of drone with an integrated targeting AI” (basically a droid that’s easy to shut down. It’s like AI art, you can call yourself a pilot when the machine is actually doing all the work and you're just pressing like 3 buttons)
About the problem of the empire wanting to keep the pilots on their side really doesn’t matter that much. What the empire could do it’s to replace with droids the lower ranks and the unskilled pilots and assign them into other labors like crew members of the star destroyers or cargo pilots. Keep the most skilled pilots and aces and make squadrons with them to keep control of the law enforcement and peacekeeping, while also putting them in charge of squads of “drones”, you can have like 3 human pilots leading a mixed squad of drones. The recruits won't have any knowledge of fighting if you straight up don’t train them for that role, so you just tell them that “the drones are going to do the horrible and dangerous job while they can work from the comfort of the capital ships because the empire cares about you”
Even in the case of the desertor pilots joining the rebels, the training they received by the rebels couldn't be compared to the skills of the droids, we’re talking about someone with a couple hundred hours of flight against a superior number of war machines that were designed to fight against people that were born to go to war, it’s like putting a tiger against a restrained goat. In a regular star destroyer you can fit like 72 TIE fighters, if you can put 3 droids were you store a TIE, then it means that only in the hangar of the star destroyers you could fit over 200 droids, not counting a few on the outside of the ship, with those numbers of competent fighters you already won air superiority; So what if they got like 50 mediocre pilots? you have more droids than they have ships.
I rest my case.
It seems to me that the best approach for the empire wouldn't be an either or scenario, but a Stragety that includes automated star fighters to support and augment the manned craft. You could avoid or at least alleviate some of the droid distrust by calling them drones or something. Build and program these droid fighters to fly with and follow the lead of human pilots in manned fighters. Every new pilot that is assigned to a ship gets one ot two droid fighters that act as wingmen. As they gain skill and proficiency they take charge of bigger wing groups. This way you could make the most from your human resources and still be able to sell the concept to the public as these droids are not completely autonomous, they are controlled by actual people.
Now I need to watch The Expanse again.
The acolyte got cancelled.. thoughts? Allen?
Clickbait titles. Cancelled? Its primary story is finished. Season 2 would’ve added toda and plagueis sure, but the main thrust of the narrative is done. The fact that toxic fans celebrate this (no yoda or plagueis) once again proves fans don’t know what they want.
@@alecatnight1540 it has nothing to do with anything or anyone being toxic they said it themselves it's cancelled.. why else would Leslye.. say she hoped it got a 2nd season..
@@alecatnight1540
It was cancelled.
The story was bad.
Acting was bad.
Simple As.
Well, what about supplementing the fighter corps with TIE droids? Creating a Seinar systems design team focused solely on AI R&D so that the TIE fighter could be equipped with an AI brain while still maintaining both the design of the TIE and keeping their flesh and blood pilots happy would give them a swarming advantage, as well as boosting their fighter tactics.
The mistrust with droids would be a difficult issue to overcome. But if the imperial military was able to keep their big mouths shut, it might not even be a problem.
So, like one pilot, giving orders to several drones at once?
@@EGRJ Kind of. The empire mostly uses swarm tactics to overwhelm their opponents. The way I see it, why not program these different tactics into the Droid brains and give them a similar autonomy to the vulture droids. This way, human pilots can give out orders if need be, but in the heat of a dogfight, the droids can think for themselves.
This would allow the TIE droids to maintain swarming tactics and keep the human pilots in control. Which would make use of ace pilots experiences and turn an entire TIE fighter wing into a dangerous foe for anyone to face.
Of course you could still have fully human TIE wings and then some wings incorporate a few Droids and then some wings fully comprised of Droid with only a handful of veteran pilots. But it would save a lot of time and cost significantly less to produce the droids and Integrate them into your fighter wings.
3:17 😂
Tie vultures sound terrifying
i would argue that the star wars universe didn't do enough to nerve the potential for droids, yeah they do nerve them but they can just as easily outclass anything organic asside from a space wizard.
perhaps droids could be vulnerable to sensor jamming or be susceptible to force disturbances which organics have developed a resistance to, i do like droids but mostly the B1's, they felt like they were in line with what a fantasy universe droid should be.
This is very like Japan 🇯🇵 in WW2. Went into the battle of midway with the best planes , best pilots more carriers and left the battle a spent force. Due to carrier design flaws (wooden decks) poor tactical decisions and some dam bad luck 🍀
I thought about the “see-charr”(I might spell wrong) and how they thought they would get closer to their god via building Starships; mabye a form of *Manifest Destiny* which is making great things for a higher being?
Alan,
Never thought about the amount TIE-Fighter pilots lost on the DS-1 Station... that's insane.
Big question tho: Why do we assume that the destruction of the DS-1 Station would plunge the Star Wars galaxy into a deep recession? It wasn't as if the station was producing anything of economic value. In fact, as both the biggest defense spending project ever, and as a planet destroyer... it would seem like it's destruction might actually improve Market outlooks... lol
I'd think the destruction of a planet like Alderaan would actually have way more negative economic repercussions on the galactic economy, no?
...! Well! Nice to see this idea addressed. I can't be the only one to comment on that on more than one of these videos. Of course, once again, making the massive military-industrial complex inefficient simply to provide jobs only to then oppress the people so hard they rebelled anyway and exploited the inefficient militaries' weaknesses--well, that was just approaching the whole thing backwards. It's pointless to not use war droids to avoid provoking rebellions....only to do exactly that anyways...
I acknowledge the points about not being to access the knowledge to make droid brains.
Dunno if the Droid Fighter Swarm tactic would a given the Rebel X & A Wings TOO TERRIBLY much fighter. Especially since most the Rebel Fighter Core's standard armaments was the sorta rapid fire guns that make short work of mass enemy formations if they dared group up. Like an enemy fighter formation. Something an X-Wing is not only good at its kinda Specialized in.
It's just plot dude! Since when did the empire care about what other people or even it's citizens think? From world devastators to droid tanks to dark troopers to droid tie the empire used droids in it's army and navy.
Other than what you said what is stopping the empire from taking say a few dozen droid starfighters apart to reverse engineer the fighter? Hell it could have been done for a lot of the older droid models to at least augment the empire military forces. The BX commando droid is the best example. Just have special teams that are comprised of of BX that work along side imperial ground forces. If they didn't do that then what stopping them from modding the TIE to replace the pilot with the droid fighter core. Yes you would lose out on the smaller size but you would then get a droid starfighter without the negative image. These are just a few ways to have gotten around the small problems.
Well instead of just mass replacement, what about using them more as unmanned wingman drones like we’re cooking up right now? Each TIE pilot can have a few attached to them keeping them covered from all angles and if needed, can take a turbo laser or missile for the living pilot. They could also be used as missile platforms allowing the TIE pilot to fire missiles off these drones due to the TIE’s own lacking armament. No need to fear replacement of living pilots, but rather they’re enhancing them. Alas, instead we just see some of the top trained pilots being themselves used as meat shields for their capital ships.
Despite the Galactic Empire's aversion to droids and non-human managed cooperations, the odd thing that was present before the Empire, but not during the Empire was smart munitions. If a K-2SO droids can be re-classified to legitimized their manufacture, why not precision beyond visual range (BVR) weapons?
Doesn't it makes sense to use Droid starfights since the empire philosophy is about fear and since so many feared them
I think Battle Meditation might have been another reason. It gave Palpatine much more control over forces loyal to him (however that works) but it didn't work on droids.
i got three words for you: Human Supremacist Organization
Up vote for Droid fighter!!!
They should’ve used droids and droid Starfighters however as piloted drones. Takes the danger out. You can replace all the life support and pilot space with shields, weapons, ammo, and or sensors.
I could certainly see a droid fighter being a complement rather than a replacement for an organic pilot.
Droid fighters could be deployed alongside regular ones to act as wingmen.
Yep, Tie-drones remote controlled from a star destroyer supported by tie-defender ace pilots.
May have missed it but a droid fighter could also employ suicide tactics, putting fear in rebels as they have to something that had no fear of death, or would just crash into them
Palpatine: *blows up a mostly loyal planet with a superweapon just to show off*
Also Palpatine: "We can't use droids, that would make us look bad. Oh, except in the infantry, we can have droids there. We'll call them Dark Troopers. It'll be great."
Would have been nice to have a droid wing man for each manned fighter.
Droid FIGHT-ers. Ah. This man's humor is fantastic.
Coincidentally, TIE Droids made it into the new canon as Auto-fighters but they were deployed too little too late.
If the Empire had assimilated all the Separatists' assets earlier and built their TIE Droid program as a continuation/adaptation of the Vulture & Tri-Fighter, the Rebels would've lost horribly. Swarms of TIE Vultures & TIE Tri-Fighters with legacy data from Clone Wars dogfighting sound quite frightening.
The World Devastators and TIE/D's at the Battle of Mon Calamari were pretty effective. Too bad Palpatine didn't use them sooner.
droid faitas
>>>Does someone know from what movie the scene at 3:58 was?
The expanse first few seasons were amazing highly recommend
Interesting that nobody in the empire have thought of remotely controlled fighters - smaller spaceframe since it does not need to fit human inside, so it get's most of the benefits of the droid, it doesn't share the issue of AI (or battledroids) since it's controlled by a human, it's going to be cheap to manufacture, loosing does not kill the skilled pilot, which can continue the fight in the next unit as fast as it would take to deploy it, and there is no room for pilot to defect/run away, because they are working from within the star destroyer - never leave the ship, means cannot steal their fighter to run away. Sounds like a win-win-win solution for the empire.
The main problem that the Empire would have had with using these devices is they may have been easy to hack/splice into....
The other issue is there is always a risk of them going full scale chopper on them. Can you imagine a Stealth (2005) scenario on your hands?
Especially if it was able to infect other droid ships? That just seems scary.
A combined arms Imperial Starfighter force would be terrifying. A mix of droid starfighters and human pilots in Tie Defenders would be unstoppable. Fill out the numbers with droids and leave the elite pilots to lead and make the split second decisions needed during combat. The droids could also be used exclusively to defend key ships and star systems while human pilots conduct long range missions with hyperdrive equipped fighters.
The droid pilots can be used as expendable cannon fodder.
@@barbiquearea I see the value in cannon fodder, and I agree that droids are inherently good for that, but I prefer a less wasteful strategy in combat, so I prefer a durable tank that can soak damage while the smaller stuff deals with the objective. The droids can be so much more effective as a fighter screen if the enemy are focused on something else while the droids dismantle their formations and the human pilots destroy objectives.
He definitely could have used them for dedicated rebel hunting forces like Death Squadron where the organics in the force are small enough to not be a propoganda loss but the extra firepower could just crush any rebel fighters
goes to show how cocky the empire officers was about the Death Star. they really felt that snub fighters where no threat. if they lunch all of their tie fighters, the x-wings would never been able to make trench run.
"training a bridge officer is like getting a naval PHD, sometimes taking up to 4 years" I fucking wish
Nicely explained. Too bad the Rebels probably had the same hangups on droids otherwise they could have used surplus battle droids to help fill out their numbers for ground troops and fighters.