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The final verse of Jenova Quickening (Dreamweaver's theme) is "Salvo somnis salto" which translates to "Salvation in a dream dance" or "Salvation in a dream pantomime". The latter is based on a similar phrase I found which referred to the "dream pantomime" scene from the Hansel and Gretel stage play. I found that interesting because Varvaodos's last words are "Dance until your frayed strings break and you can dance no more". The LOVELESS play in Rebirth is a pantomime by definition and we have Dreamweaver in the TofA and transforming into Rosa 39:39. Then, to top that all off, we have (what appears to be) a depiction of Minerva appearing as the "calamity" on the mural at 39:05. It's also worth mentioning that the woman on the LOVELESS posters strikes the same pose as the Shadowblood Queen on her Queen's Blood card.
The idea of Minerva actually being Jenova is actually an interesting idea, but the fact that she heals Genesis of his degradation would give me pause at least until we can see the rest of Genesis' arc. There is a lot of information missing which I think in First Soldier Episode 2 with Sephiroth's Masamune story with Young Angeal and Young Genesis and their time together, we will get a piece of that puzzle to see if that new lore connects those ideas. My thoughts on that idea is that Jenova may have tried to corrupt Minerva, but she is a goddess and the embodiment of the planet. The only way that would make sense is if the she exists in Lifestream White as the True Minerva but then Jenova masquerades as a corrupted version of Minerva in Lifestream Black. Also remember Sephiroth saying, she can take form of those you love, and the Goddess would be no exception. The idea of worlds being within the lifestream kind of disappointed me, I was hoping they were parallel universes but for the story and because the devs are wanting to keep the new story close to the original, doing it this way was their escape hatch from the "Unknown Journey". They have stated Zack is definitely alive, so this makes him the true wildcard in the events to come. The flowers starting to bloom in the terrier world makes me believe that Zack may actually be able to save that world, which has me to believe if the devs are truly going that route, a Zack DLC would almost be a must. Zack's objective is simple but it's not at the same time, save Aerith and Cloud. The other point you bring is a very good point about Vincent. Honestly, I have had this feeling that Rebirth may have actually been much longer than what we got, but due to it's length, they cut it down. I think we may actually get a Vincent DLC which will be a chapter of Vincent's exploration in the Temple of the Ancients and perhaps he gets his own trial as well, and at the end we get a 2 - 3 minute cutscene of Vincent on the plane talking a little about his past and maybe noticing Cloud's mental breakdown. Also note as well that Crisis Core had almost half of its content cut from it's original production due to the cost of the UMDs... so of this story coming may be from that cut content. Also note the Cetra event story about the dragon master and the Cetra they meet during the event in Ever Crisis.
I am so damn excited. Both, for the completion of this series, and for the upcoming lore and theory videos. I'm actually going to play through Chapter 14, tonight or tomorrow, and jump right into hard mode. And, then I'll probably put off sleeping, and watch 12 straight hours of analysis from some of my favorite TH-camrs.
I always wondered why Cloud says “ I’m not like him” at the end of his trial given by Sephiroth. How you explained it makes perfect sense to me. Cloud killing all those people in the bombing was no different than when Sephiroth murdered Clouds whole village. I get it now. Ty. Also whenever Hojo says “He is undoubtedly close behind” I always thought he was talking about Cloud always being close behind Aerith not Sephiroth but yeah that also makes a lot of sense. I always felt like Sephiroth sent Cloud his friend Rosche to greet him at the gates of the temple to kind of mess with Cloud a bit. Like here’s your friend look at him now btw get the black materia.
inre: aerith saying "finally" when they arrive at the temple - in the japanese dub she says ただ今 (tadaima) which is how you might greet your family when you come home from school or work or whatever, "i'm hooo-oome" kind of a thing, definitely agree about connecting back to what was severed in midgar, she's returning to the knowledge of the lifestream, reminds me of the post-death ifalna stuff in traces of two pasts too
@@Sector6UK Channels been coming on nicely in general, definitely one of my favourite FF channels. Appreciate grind you must have endured for the First Soldier story, bloody life saver lol.
I've super been enjoying this series!!! I love how much detail you go into the story and you have really clear but humorous deliveries. I can feel the passion from this project and it's fantastic! Keep it up!
I can't wait for final fantasy 7 parts 3 comes out would love to see how the final stories turn out and would love how you reviews when it comes out!😊❤
Great breakdown as always! 46:00 send me right to our conversation on chapter 10. I’m 100% with you on that theory 😊 By the way, Sephiroth’s “forever” kinda gives me Xenoblade 3’s “endless now” vibes. Wdyt?
Great videos, great theories…I hate that I missed your play through. Any chance of ever uploading some of those on utube? Even just critical moments…keep up the great work.
I don't know if i'll be able to upload it to youtube but I will look in to it. I am gonig to stream my hard mode playthrough at some point soon ish so I'll make sure I shout about it on here as much as I can before starting! And, thank you!
@@Sector6UK great can’t wait. I just started following on your twitch channel. I’m not a huge twitch person but lots of streamers seem to be leaving TH-cam to focus on there.
1:01:49 this is the moment Aerith fully accepts her death, and the answer to the "counter part hidden between worlds". The counter part to the Black Materia is the White Materia, which Aerith hid between worlds. In Cloud giving Sephiroth the black materia, Aerith is in checkmate. The only way to stop him after that point of no return is by using the White Materia, which would need to be pulled from between worlds
baby seal wants things to remain a mystery but after 40 years i what part 3 to answer all my quease about jenova, who was cloud dad, whats Seph last name and so on. i kind of want them to make another movie called FF7: First Crisis that shows the events of jenova coming to pkanet then getting sealed in ice.
Love this series! First off, great points on the whole Jenova - Goddess connection! But about Hojo. The whole Jenova has been manipulating man for eons, even to this day with Glenn has got me thinking what other world events were influenced by her? Think back to the recent cg trailer for Ever Crisis: younger Sephiroth is having Jenova like visions and sees Hojo in front of a wall of pink/purple fog. Big stretch but what if Hojo is Jenova? Jenova does something to take control or influence hojo's mind upon discovery. All in an effort to further guide humanity by helping spread its own "malignancy" across the world. Hojo also creates the perfect vessel for Jenova to live on in Sephiroth. Thoughts?
I hope the cloud come up is nice and wholesome. I want some strong Advent Children bonds formed. Coud rn just looks like an absolute maniac to Barret and Tifa prob thinks he's insane. They really are building the hype super hard and I hope the hit a home run and I don't get a ff16 ending.
Brilliant video! Would also love a Vincent DLC. It could start with Vincent flying/parkouring his way through the temple, but the bulk of it could take place when he gets to the trial room. The trial could be much longer than everyone else's, involving a bunch of battles and bosses, and also take us through his/Lucrecia's backstory. It would slot in here so perfectly. Fingers crossed, but I agree that it does look unlikely.
In the original, I never understood how a new cait sith arrived so quickly. Now I'm wondering if there was one in one of the Shinra helicopters just in case
Sector, do we think there will be other Cetra temples or special new places like it in part 3? Could there be something new in the south to replace this moved to north location? How has the Banora Underground reacted to this new threat? What could be in the Rhadore areas? What is so special about the place where the giant condor likes to roost? Something beautiful and sad to think about: at the Gold Saucer, for just a little bit, everyone was together and having a good time. Do we think Sephiroth/Jenova is getting a little bit of a hold on Rufus? On that note, is Jenova even capable of having any mental effect on Hojo, Scarlet, Heidegger or Palmer? More so the former two. What if to fall prey to her mind manipulation requires the ability to sympathize with others?
I have a feeling that DLC will happen, regardless of whether they say there won't be any or whatever. Vincent (and Cid) combat please - especially as there's bound to be Cetran weapons for them in the Temple. Still dreaming of that Rocket Town region DLC though...
So at the end of the Weiss fight in Remake, we see the Shinra-net version of Hojo from Dirge, Could be normal Hojo just watching but I feel showing that with Weiss was very deliberately done. What if this time around he has also figured out a theory about different "worlds" being able to exist within the lifestream through his digital reconstruction of the lifestream? Would kinda shine a light on his "Shinra can dream bigger" line at the end of the temple section in Rebirth and him knowing more than we know and more than he did in OG. Also just a random theory ramble: Shouldn't Weiss be asleep and a husk with no conciousness? Now I ask you to remember what happens with the ending of Dirge. Now I ask what happens to a person while they are in these other "worlds". Now I ask the possibility of that ending actually being linked to this remake trilogy. Reason he is awake is because Genesis took him to the Remake world, hence why he is awake this time around. Random Theory ramble over lol
In my opinion, the lore details surrounding the Black Materia are probably the strongest evidence that the Remake trilogy is NOT a sequel, but a reimagining. In the OG, the Black Materia was created by the planet, and transformed into the Temple by the Cetra, and included a mechanism by which it could be retrieved if necessary. It required self-sacrifice, but an allowance has been made for its possible use. In the ReTrilogy, the Black Materia is made by the Gi, and the Cetra seem dead-set on making it as difficult as possible to get it, as if they want to make sure it can never be used under any circumstances. Also, in order to retrieve the Black Materia, you have to use the fake one to find the real one "hidden between worlds." To me, these aren't just minor changes to flesh things out. These are deep lore changes that alter the history of the FF7 world. If Sephiroth and Aerith have already experienced the OG, then why didn't our OG party have to reach between worlds to get the Black Materia? I find it hard to believe that Sephiroth sent his consciousness so far back in time that he would change how and why the Black Materia was created and also make it harder for himself to get it. The idea that Sephiroth has experienced the OG and is coming up with a new plan after the last one failed is just too hard to believe. It is much simpler to surmise that this is a very different version of the FF7 world and that Sephiroth and Aerith experience time the same way the characters do but occasionally get access to future knowledge through a sort of Lifestream-enabled clairvoyance. Such knowledge is usually not perfect or complete, so it makes sense for why Sephiroth's plan is so similar to the OG, yet different due to having to account for the Black Materia's different hiding place and the possibilities allowed by multiple worlds. Just my two cents. The devs have their work cut out for them in Part 3, and I have no idea where they'll go, but from where I'm standing today, it just seems that some of the paths we thought they were going down when we finished Remake have been effectively closed down by Rebirth.
I suspect the Cetrans didn't tell the whole truth in the Temple. The reason I suspected this, is because they didn't explain why Fate abandoned the whole Cetra rase, who are so close to the Planet. I suspect during the fight with Jenova, Cetran and humans are both affected by Jenova. Afterwards, Jenova started playing both sides during the final fight between the 2 races (similar to what Jenova and Sepheiroth are doing in the current Shira/Wutai conflict) The reason Cetra was abandoned, was because they are too close to the Planet and therefore would more easily corrupt the Planet. So my theory is Loveless is the final Cetra/human war told from the human's perspective, where the human are fighting the oppressive, Jenova-influenced Cetra. Whereas the hologram in the Temple is the same war told from the Cetrans' perspective.
THANKS FOR WATCHING!
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Ooh! I’ve been really looking forward to these final two! Love the videos man. Keep up the good work.
Hope you enjoy! One more to go!
The final verse of Jenova Quickening (Dreamweaver's theme) is "Salvo somnis salto" which translates to "Salvation in a dream dance" or "Salvation in a dream pantomime". The latter is based on a similar phrase I found which referred to the "dream pantomime" scene from the Hansel and Gretel stage play.
I found that interesting because Varvaodos's last words are "Dance until your frayed strings break and you can dance no more". The LOVELESS play in Rebirth is a pantomime by definition and we have Dreamweaver in the TofA and transforming into Rosa 39:39. Then, to top that all off, we have (what appears to be) a depiction of Minerva appearing as the "calamity" on the mural at 39:05.
It's also worth mentioning that the woman on the LOVELESS posters strikes the same pose as the Shadowblood Queen on her Queen's Blood card.
Chapter 13 is quite possibly some of the best gaming I’ve ever experienced.
Real
Agreed. I spent like 7 hours exploring Temple of the Ancients I loved it
The idea of Minerva actually being Jenova is actually an interesting idea, but the fact that she heals Genesis of his degradation would give me pause at least until we can see the rest of Genesis' arc. There is a lot of information missing which I think in First Soldier Episode 2 with Sephiroth's Masamune story with Young Angeal and Young Genesis and their time together, we will get a piece of that puzzle to see if that new lore connects those ideas. My thoughts on that idea is that Jenova may have tried to corrupt Minerva, but she is a goddess and the embodiment of the planet. The only way that would make sense is if the she exists in Lifestream White as the True Minerva but then Jenova masquerades as a corrupted version of Minerva in Lifestream Black. Also remember Sephiroth saying, she can take form of those you love, and the Goddess would be no exception.
The idea of worlds being within the lifestream kind of disappointed me, I was hoping they were parallel universes but for the story and because the devs are wanting to keep the new story close to the original, doing it this way was their escape hatch from the "Unknown Journey". They have stated Zack is definitely alive, so this makes him the true wildcard in the events to come. The flowers starting to bloom in the terrier world makes me believe that Zack may actually be able to save that world, which has me to believe if the devs are truly going that route, a Zack DLC would almost be a must. Zack's objective is simple but it's not at the same time, save Aerith and Cloud.
The other point you bring is a very good point about Vincent. Honestly, I have had this feeling that Rebirth may have actually been much longer than what we got, but due to it's length, they cut it down. I think we may actually get a Vincent DLC which will be a chapter of Vincent's exploration in the Temple of the Ancients and perhaps he gets his own trial as well, and at the end we get a 2 - 3 minute cutscene of Vincent on the plane talking a little about his past and maybe noticing Cloud's mental breakdown. Also note as well that Crisis Core had almost half of its content cut from it's original production due to the cost of the UMDs... so of this story coming may be from that cut content. Also note the Cetra event story about the dragon master and the Cetra they meet during the event in Ever Crisis.
I am so damn excited. Both, for the completion of this series, and for the upcoming lore and theory videos.
I'm actually going to play through Chapter 14, tonight or tomorrow, and jump right into hard mode.
And, then I'll probably put off sleeping, and watch 12 straight hours of analysis from some of my favorite TH-camrs.
me too man, just finishing some games to go back to ff7 remake and rebirth
I always wondered why Cloud says “ I’m not like him” at the end of his trial given by Sephiroth. How you explained it makes perfect sense to me. Cloud killing all those people in the bombing was no different than when Sephiroth murdered Clouds whole village. I get it now. Ty. Also whenever Hojo says “He is undoubtedly close behind” I always thought he was talking about Cloud always being close behind Aerith not Sephiroth but yeah that also makes a lot of sense. I always felt like Sephiroth sent Cloud his friend Rosche to greet him at the gates of the temple to kind of mess with Cloud a bit. Like here’s your friend look at him now btw get the black materia.
I love this series so so much. You really don’t miss
Thank you, we'll have to chat about it a bit!
Cloud with the black materia: "my precioussss"
inre: aerith saying "finally" when they arrive at the temple - in the japanese dub she says ただ今 (tadaima) which is how you might greet your family when you come home from school or work or whatever, "i'm hooo-oome" kind of a thing,
definitely agree about connecting back to what was severed in midgar, she's returning to the knowledge of the lifestream, reminds me of the post-death ifalna stuff in traces of two pasts too
Another great video man. Thank you for helping us prolong the magic of ff7rb
These videos are great, nice one.
Thank you, I'm really happy that people are enjoying them!
@@Sector6UK Channels been coming on nicely in general, definitely one of my favourite FF channels. Appreciate grind you must have endured for the First Soldier story, bloody life saver lol.
I've super been enjoying this series!!! I love how much detail you go into the story and you have really clear but humorous deliveries. I can feel the passion from this project and it's fantastic! Keep it up!
Great video dude and love the detail to the holograms too
Sneaky Jenny Nova.
I can't wait for final fantasy 7 parts 3 comes out would love to see how the final stories turn out and would love how you reviews when it comes out!😊❤
Great breakdown as always!
46:00 send me right to our conversation on chapter 10. I’m 100% with you on that theory 😊
By the way, Sephiroth’s “forever” kinda gives me Xenoblade 3’s “endless now” vibes. Wdyt?
Great videos, great theories…I hate that I missed your play through. Any chance of ever uploading some of those on utube? Even just critical moments…keep up the great work.
I don't know if i'll be able to upload it to youtube but I will look in to it.
I am gonig to stream my hard mode playthrough at some point soon ish so I'll make sure I shout about it on here as much as I can before starting!
And, thank you!
@@Sector6UK great can’t wait. I just started following on your twitch channel. I’m not a huge twitch person but lots of streamers seem to be leaving TH-cam to focus on there.
Emerald Witch is in one of these murals. More Queen's Blood!
1:01:49 this is the moment Aerith fully accepts her death, and the answer to the "counter part hidden between worlds". The counter part to the Black Materia is the White Materia, which Aerith hid between worlds.
In Cloud giving Sephiroth the black materia, Aerith is in checkmate. The only way to stop him after that point of no return is by using the White Materia, which would need to be pulled from between worlds
baby seal wants things to remain a mystery but after 40 years i what part 3 to answer all my quease about jenova, who was cloud dad, whats Seph last name and so on. i kind of want them to make another movie called FF7: First Crisis that shows the events of jenova coming to pkanet then getting sealed in ice.
Love this series! First off, great points on the whole Jenova - Goddess connection! But about Hojo. The whole Jenova has been manipulating man for eons, even to this day with Glenn has got me thinking what other world events were influenced by her? Think back to the recent cg trailer for Ever Crisis: younger Sephiroth is having Jenova like visions and sees Hojo in front of a wall of pink/purple fog. Big stretch but what if Hojo is Jenova? Jenova does something to take control or influence hojo's mind upon discovery. All in an effort to further guide humanity by helping spread its own "malignancy" across the world. Hojo also creates the perfect vessel for Jenova to live on in Sephiroth.
Thoughts?
I hope the cloud come up is nice and wholesome. I want some strong Advent Children bonds formed. Coud rn just looks like an absolute maniac to Barret and Tifa prob thinks he's insane. They really are building the hype super hard and I hope the hit a home run and I don't get a ff16 ending.
It's going to feel so good when he gets his brain cleared up, I genuinely can't wait.
Brilliant video! Would also love a Vincent DLC. It could start with Vincent flying/parkouring his way through the temple, but the bulk of it could take place when he gets to the trial room. The trial could be much longer than everyone else's, involving a bunch of battles and bosses, and also take us through his/Lucrecia's backstory. It would slot in here so perfectly. Fingers crossed, but I agree that it does look unlikely.
In the original, I never understood how a new cait sith arrived so quickly.
Now I'm wondering if there was one in one of the Shinra helicopters just in case
Looking forward to theory crafting Kupo 👍👍
Sector, do we think there will be other Cetra temples or special new places like it in part 3? Could there be something new in the south to replace this moved to north location? How has the Banora Underground reacted to this new threat? What could be in the Rhadore areas? What is so special about the place where the giant condor likes to roost?
Something beautiful and sad to think about: at the Gold Saucer, for just a little bit, everyone was together and having a good time.
Do we think Sephiroth/Jenova is getting a little bit of a hold on Rufus? On that note, is Jenova even capable of having any mental effect on Hojo, Scarlet, Heidegger or Palmer? More so the former two. What if to fall prey to her mind manipulation requires the ability to sympathize with others?
I have a feeling that DLC will happen, regardless of whether they say there won't be any or whatever. Vincent (and Cid) combat please - especially as there's bound to be Cetran weapons for them in the Temple.
Still dreaming of that Rocket Town region DLC though...
So at the end of the Weiss fight in Remake, we see the Shinra-net version of Hojo from Dirge, Could be normal Hojo just watching but I feel showing that with Weiss was very deliberately done. What if this time around he has also figured out a theory about different "worlds" being able to exist within the lifestream through his digital reconstruction of the lifestream? Would kinda shine a light on his "Shinra can dream bigger" line at the end of the temple section in Rebirth and him knowing more than we know and more than he did in OG.
Also just a random theory ramble:
Shouldn't Weiss be asleep and a husk with no conciousness? Now I ask you to remember what happens with the ending of Dirge. Now I ask what happens to a person while they are in these other "worlds". Now I ask the possibility of that ending actually being linked to this remake trilogy. Reason he is awake is because Genesis took him to the Remake world, hence why he is awake this time around. Random Theory ramble over lol
In my opinion, the lore details surrounding the Black Materia are probably the strongest evidence that the Remake trilogy is NOT a sequel, but a reimagining. In the OG, the Black Materia was created by the planet, and transformed into the Temple by the Cetra, and included a mechanism by which it could be retrieved if necessary. It required self-sacrifice, but an allowance has been made for its possible use.
In the ReTrilogy, the Black Materia is made by the Gi, and the Cetra seem dead-set on making it as difficult as possible to get it, as if they want to make sure it can never be used under any circumstances. Also, in order to retrieve the Black Materia, you have to use the fake one to find the real one "hidden between worlds."
To me, these aren't just minor changes to flesh things out. These are deep lore changes that alter the history of the FF7 world. If Sephiroth and Aerith have already experienced the OG, then why didn't our OG party have to reach between worlds to get the Black Materia? I find it hard to believe that Sephiroth sent his consciousness so far back in time that he would change how and why the Black Materia was created and also make it harder for himself to get it.
The idea that Sephiroth has experienced the OG and is coming up with a new plan after the last one failed is just too hard to believe. It is much simpler to surmise that this is a very different version of the FF7 world and that Sephiroth and Aerith experience time the same way the characters do but occasionally get access to future knowledge through a sort of Lifestream-enabled clairvoyance. Such knowledge is usually not perfect or complete, so it makes sense for why Sephiroth's plan is so similar to the OG, yet different due to having to account for the Black Materia's different hiding place and the possibilities allowed by multiple worlds.
Just my two cents. The devs have their work cut out for them in Part 3, and I have no idea where they'll go, but from where I'm standing today, it just seems that some of the paths we thought they were going down when we finished Remake have been effectively closed down by Rebirth.
I do wonder if the Gi either summoned the meteor which brought Jenova or if they fled from Jenova and were followed to Gaia.
I suspect the Cetrans didn't tell the whole truth in the Temple. The reason I suspected this, is because they didn't explain why Fate abandoned the whole Cetra rase, who are so close to the Planet.
I suspect during the fight with Jenova, Cetran and humans are both affected by Jenova. Afterwards, Jenova started playing both sides during the final fight between the 2 races (similar to what Jenova and Sepheiroth are doing in the current Shira/Wutai conflict)
The reason Cetra was abandoned, was because they are too close to the Planet and therefore would more easily corrupt the Planet.
So my theory is Loveless is the final Cetra/human war told from the human's perspective, where the human are fighting the oppressive, Jenova-influenced Cetra. Whereas the hologram in the Temple is the same war told from the Cetrans' perspective.
😈