"You have to spend money to make money". You were fortunate John. When my boss found out I had a side hustle he fired me. Worked out for me. 3 years later I bought him out.
Exactly. I would come home at 5, play with my kids until they went to bed at 8, then went in the garage and made parts until 1 or 2am every day for like a year and making more than my engineering job. Work got in the way of making money and I couldn’t afford having a job
I jumped in way too fast totally unprepared. Horrible credit and a couple grand lol. I am a jump in the deep end person but I have drastically revised my leaps forward since then to minimize risk and stress, but I leaped in left me job at Parker Hannifin, 3 months later got a part time job at the local hardware store for a year, it actually worked awesome, id suggest that as a perfect transition to make sure you have guaranteed check each week for 20 hours. It makes the transition smoother. I would say side hustle long as possible, then part time job, then go all in. Make sure you get your credit over 700 before you do it. That hurt me more than anything. Bootstrapping my ass off taught me invaluable lessons though.
When the time comes to quit it's well worth having a chat with your boss before handing in your notice, especially if you have a job that has a decent amount of value to the business. They may be willing to let you work part time or sub-contract. In my case the business had to down size and they wanted to increase my work load and decrease my pay. I had a chat with my boss and we came to a deal where I quit and did sub contract work for them and a couple of their customers. It saved them money because they could employ someone less well qualified for the less technical work and only pay me for the specialized work. I came away with a read-made customer base. It wasn't really the work I wanted but it gave me the financial stability I needed to get my other products off the ground. One good piece of advice is to look around and see how many others are doing the same type of work/ producing the same type of product as you. If you are likely to have a lot of competitors, don't go there. Your competitors have experience and reputation on their side and they have their margins optimized far better than you will be able to. You need to find a niche market. Start small and stay in your job as long as possible so you can get a better idea if your product is going to work out. Niche markets generally have some sort of community. For instance John started making products for the shooting community. Get involved with the community before you bring your product to market. You are building your reputation and in business reputation is important. For example there are online forums. Join the forums and help out where you can. Once you get known, you can start asking questions. For instance if you have an idea for a clever new shooting target ask people what they would like from a target. Be willing to change your designs based on that advice. You may end up completely changing your plans based on that information. It is also worth setting a cutoff point. It's not something you want to think about but what if the venture fails? If your business is not succeeding you need to have some line drawn in the sand that you won't cross. That is the point where you start job hunting before the business drags you under. In my case I had some savings so my cutoff point was having to borrow money. If I had to borrow money I'd give up and call it quits. I've seen too many people hang on too long, relying on borrowed money until they are basically working just to pay the banks. You may have to borrow. In that case set a limit. Another cutoff could be if the business is not turning a profit after a certain time.
Good timing. I’m pretty sure that I’m gonna hang up the day job at the end of this month. I’ve had a steady business for 8 years now and have been too afraid to pull the plug despite having steady business income that grows without me reaching out for more customers. Good days are ahead, I hope. 😳
When I heard about this on the BOM podcast I couldn't wait for it to come out. Really good advice here! I'm in engineering school right now and they NEVER teach this stuff. I'm required to take "Intro to sociology" but I'm not required to take an entrepreneurial class? They act like getting hired is the only option and it's honestly frustrating.
Bro, yes. School teaches you too be an employee. A degree is something to show you can finish something and commit to something..... to employers. Never do they talk about how you’re going to sell your skills to the world
In fact man, they don't have to teach you how to be an entrepreneur, you must learn your profession first, get experience and understanding of whole process from bottom to top and only then, if you're passionate enough, you'll find your way to it yourself.
@@escapist279 Not quite - sure, experience is great, but more often than not you start because you don't know what you don't know and so stuff you otherwise didn't.
So far I don't think these comments are what he was hoping to read 😆 Good luck y'all. Thanks for the tips, it's been a long long long road, over many years, trying to build a cnc machine shop in my garage with minimal risk... it's tough with a mortgage and other debt! Your tips are very helpful. Finally have a functional shop with Cinci Arrow 500 and a Mori lathe, zero debt on my equipment... now time to learn to use them proficiently 😆
I have either bought or started 35 businesses. Some of the advice John shared with us today I learned the hard way. But everything he speaks about is very relevant. Awesome advice Sir, I appreciate you for sharing!!!
Great video John - things I’ve definitely thought about while working the “night shift” in my garage after the kids go to bed and reinforces what I’ve been working toward. Also: congrats on the 400k sub mark! 🤘
Wow Incredible , this feels so relevant for me. I have worked with Cnc's for 25 years plus starting with a "Cincinnati Saber" . I have been lucky with property investment on the side of work and inadvertently developed to a tool based around this (started the patent process). how can you stop machining its so dam rewarding.
I did this 44 yrs ago, lucky I make a world class product but I would advise considering contract manufacturing for other manufacturers. It’s now my main business
Last years choice to leave my good engineering day job to start my small job shop was the hardest choice of my life. I don't have any family so I knew if I failed I might have to move back to the streets but thankfully things are going great! John, I would have to say some of my success is directly due to you and your amazing channel (especially coming from someone that had never seen a CNC machine before I was encouraged by this channel to get a tormach 770)!
I very much agree with your slow progressive growth approach. Slowly I have been collecting machinery in the garage to open up my capabilities. Having a day job helps fund things and gives access to larger machinery and scrap to make tooling. Time allows me to wait for those perfect machines to come along. Too often I've seen people with no machining background jump into purchasing a shop. It resulted in high turnover, no real understanding of their inner operations, unachievable goals and a lot of frusteration for everybody. Not to mention a bad name in the very small machining community.
Modern CNC was a challenge for me as I had never seen a CNC machine in real life before I bought a 3 axis mill (unless you count building a terrible CNC gantry router). I am the "do it myself" type so it was fun learning CNC but I would never buy a whole shop with out knowing what I was kinda doing. I had no clue people did that.... so risky
Lots of good info here. Been working on a new business and was getting a little impatient but it dawned on me a couple weeks ago that it’s okay if it takes time, because many things worth building take time and I also need to still be at least somewhat present for my family. Also, a lot of the entrepreneurial businesses I look up to in their current states were actually quite a while in the making, SMW among them. Gotta keep that day job check as long as I can while I’m figuring stuff out.
Good words of advice. I just recently got me my own personal mill for the shop. Me and my dad already have a pretty good welding/fabrication business, so this was my personal addition. Being a cnc machinist where I currently work. I can't wait to be able to personally send some chips flying in the comfort of my shop.
I wish you keep sharing your shop work, as it has been, but this video is your most valuable contribution to everybody. Wish you and your team (family and shop) the best. God bless you.
Very good advice. I ended up quitting my day job almost 3 years ago with really zero customers and just an idea of how I was going to get work. Looking back, it was not the smartest thing I had ever done. I already had experience operating a business and 4 years of being a setup guy/ programmer. I absolutely strongly disliked the job I was at like you mentioned in the video. Fortunately for me, I had enough money to sustain what I was doing (both personally and business expenses) for about a year of making zero dollars stacked in the bank. It was extremely slow to start, but slowly picked up momentum. Everyone has a different situation. I definitely agree with what you say in the video. Sometimes there is a "fuck it" moment in life where you just have to go for it. I took a highly calculated risk with a worst case scenario outcome in the back of my head. I was fortunate that it worked, but it easily could have gone the other way. I appreciate my customers that have gotten me to this point. Good luck to those out there on their journey!
This video came just at the right moment for myself. Thank you very much for being honest about it. I have been ready to quite my job for a while now because I’m not a big fan currently however your point number 3 is spot on. Just because I don’t like my job does not mean I’m in a position to go flat out with my side hustle. Thanks again, I love all your videos and info.
It is quite difficult to know where the golden cutoff point is between "side job and leave your job". Especially when you don't have anything to fall back onto. I've seen people risking it all and it worked out better than expected but also some taking a huge risk leaving their jobs and the venture falling flat on it's face. Thanks for the insight John :)
Great vid with great advice! I quit my "real job" (which was a pretty cool job) to go back to the family farm, which was a real pay cut, but I don't have much of an affinity for an expensive lifestyle, and made it work.. One day I was working on my truck and decided to (manually) machine out a turbo housing for a bigger compressor and turbine wheel, then my buddy wanted me to do one for him, so I did, He's a better salesman than I am, so he ended up putting it up for sale and a couple years later I've probably made about 50 of them.. It's always going to be a side hustle for me, but it's more than beer money for sure (which was my original goal).. from there I've also started doing injection systems and am locally known for being a mechanic.
Nice video. I watch this channel because, back in the early 90s, I got drawn into a software startup doing CAD/CAM. I am not a machinist. But having my software spit out reams of G Codes (or the old Heidenhain language) that I could watch turn into a soap mould or a part for an F1 car or whatever was so satisfying. Even if it meant all-night coding sessions, running serial cables across ceilings and burning my fingers soldering on RS232 plugs. I was so impressed working with the experienced machinists who knew the feeds & speeds and the tool selection to do what was required. On the rare occasions that I tried on my own, I generally produced scrap and broken tools. But damn, when I see how tools like Fusion work now with the interactive generation of toolpaths on the CAD screen, I think: shit. We were so close to being able to do that in 1993 and it would've been so cool. Except a lot slower on the hardware we had then.
I know how you feel. I'm in CAM and even after 15 years I still get a kick out of seeing some of the really incredible parts people make with my software.
4hr work week is a joke, I suppose some ppl could do well that way but you need purpose in life and thats just not enough to stay on your rails.... All the really successful older folks I know still have a retirement side hustle that is more or less full time just they get to spend more time talking with customers enjoying the process than before. Personally I want to work til the day I die.
Random question. Would you consider having a discussion about Right to Repair with Louis Rossmann? He's a TH-camr from NYC. He makes videos on business advice, Apple product repairs, and more recently politics and right to repair. Even if you just discuss each other's businesses it would make a nice video.
I wanted to quit my main job and I was struggling very much staying there day to day. I was just wanted to get more tools. I then said no more tools even if i need them so much and I desided to quit.it's been few days since then and I feel FREE. I don't care if I don't have the tools I would want to have. I just liking it being working with my projects rather than push my self into something I don't like. I feel comfortable that this will pay of one day but I don't chase money yet. I just do my projects! it is very rewardable and I don't regret. story of life. bingo!
Thanks for putting this video out. I am in the midst of exactly this situation and this brought some desperately needed perspective to my plans. I'll be saving this one in my favorites for review.
To the point and pertinent advice about how/when to transition. Many thanks. Once that's done there's the next challenge of analysing what is succesful about the business activity. You may be fortunate and realise that there is a gold seam by having done/sold something in a different way.
@Szabii Ok you did the last step and quit your job. First you get good at what you are passionate about (CNC, Engineering, Cooking etc), then you have an idea that will make money, and make it on a sustainable basis. You "Road Test" it by running with that idea whilst doing your current job. If you think you can't do both then quit the idea because that is the amount of effort it is going to take to make it work if you quit your job. Then quit the job when the passionate idea becomes a better payer then the job. If you work in a job where your employer has resources that could help you and your idea does not compete in the market that they are in then see if they will take your business as a sub contractor, it saves you making a huge investment, they keep you as a good employee and saves the effort to find a sub contractor who may not offer such good terms. Finally build up as much good will as you can during the early phases and keep as much as you can when you quit your job and thereafter, everyone who helped could be a future customer.
Start making reactive rifle targets. Fail selling those targets. Buy a tormach. Find a wife. Tell wife: i am confident. Read a book. Start making camera mounts. Become rich.
I quit my day job and opened up my shop 16 years ago. I realized I was making better parts for that company then the outside shops they hired. I grabbed about 65+ small production jobs from them. Still making parts for that same company.
I actually am right in this boat. I work a day job. I got to the exact point of "I want to quit my job to pursue my business which I am getting off the ground". I had this mindset as I felt I didn't have enough time. I was putting in triple digit hours a week between my company and my job. At the time I was a contractor, and called my agency saying "I'm done" when they learned it was because I wanted to move on they kept trying to convince me to wait. I was skeptical because I know a agency makes money off their employees. However I did listen. 1 month later I got hired at the company I was a contractor for 2x the pay and benefits. Now I can cover the costs of having someone work under me doing the work I did not have the time for investing into the company, while keeping my same lifestyle. I plan to stay working on my job until my company is at a point at which surpass what I currently make.
Thanks John, that was perfect timing for my situation, i shut my shop and sold everything to go travel 20 years ago and ended up owning and driving trucks while always having the idea to get back to engineering and im feeling more and more that now is the time to do it, i have spent the last three days pricing machines and materials and checking prices of the products i plan to make but i need to do more research before spending the cash, your channel has been a great help with my attempt to learn fusion360 and your diy clamp video, 5 years ago, is what got me started with cad and cam and learning fusion, you have been an inspiration since i saw your first video so keep up the good work, im sure there are many more that have been positively affected by your channel
You can sum this up in the immortals words of every dad. "Don't quit your job until you have another job lined up." And an idea for making money is in no way a job, proven cashflow is a job.
@CMTeamCobra No, you are confusing the word business and company. A company is a group of people all specializing in a part of the business where presumably they are replaceable, including the founder. A business is just any entity that makes money. It can be an address book for a plumber or a lathe for a machinist, it is the key component that changes labor into independent production.
@CMTeamCobra I read it. It's a blueprint for starting a company, not a business. Company means group of people. Business just means any mechanism which makes money. A company is a business but a business isn't necessarily a company. And there are tons of very highly profitable one man band businesses. And there are tons of very low profit companies. The E-Myth is a self help book to start companies, it doesn't help you make a profit. (edit: which should be your main goal)
@CMTeamCobra To explain this another way. If I am making 300 thousand dollars net a year making injection molds. That's a business. If I manage 10 people who make me 200 thousand dollars a year making injection molds, that's a company and a business. But which is the better business? The E-Myth is about getting your company to maturity then cashing out. It's not about making the highest profit long term.
@CMTeamCobra Yeah, it's totally a "what you want out of it" kind of decision. Which is why the E-Myth kinda rubbed me the wrong way. As I remember it the book basically shit on the whole solo businessman concept. Like if you are interested in following your trade/passion(I think the book said technician) then just be an employee. That's such shit advice. Lots of businesses are 90% trade work and only a bit other work, some are mostly non trade work. You might feel fine about accounting but hate customer service or visa versa. Shits complicated. And I can't even blame the book 100%, because it clearly oversimplifies to try to prove a valid point but you have all these people taking every word as gospel. Like probably my richest relative was my grandad who owned an electronics component selling business that he started like 70 years ago. From what I've heard he really liked the business and his customers and the trade and the control he had over his income and investments and lots of stuff. And one of the things he liked was never hiring anybody. It wasn't because he didn't want to make more money, he just didn't want to deal with more complexity. A good friend of his in the same business, who would often pool their money to get better wholesale prices on stuff did decide to go big and 70 years later neither company still exists and they both made a lot of money, he probably made more then my grandad but like you said it comes at a cost. Both paths are equally valid depending on what you want.
@CMTeamCobra Hey your business model sounds a lot like mine. I am a custom machine builder thats been out on my own for the last 6 years. weve been batting around the idea of starting up and running a small injection mold operation. Basically wanted to help fill some of the unused spindle capacity in the machine shop. I dont like to do regular job shop kinda stuff so this seems like a better fit. How long did it take you to get your molding operation going?
I started on my own after getting layed off from the oil industry. Ordered 2 Tormach machines and went after it. Most stressful 2 years of my life I believe. 4 years into it, I’m building a new shop. I wouldn’t recommend to anyone doing what I did. What a ride haha.
Thanks for your advice. Really great to hear such a story. I have some thoughts in my head, this helps a lot to figure out what and how to do. Thanks man!
Would you like to come visit Harmony Turbines? I would love to pick your brain on the manufacturing and fabrication side of things. We are pretty close to New York here in Lebanon, PA so the drive would be pretty easy.
Hi John, you have spoken the words of Golden Laying Eggs. Every word is relatable. Thank you for inspiring me and validating my journey. Best Wishes. Cheers
Really good video I had 3 years of side hustle and went full time last year small machine shop 1 mill 1 lathe it’s hard work but hopefully will pay off
Great advice, thanks John! I’m in a totally different field but these points are still great to things through as I think towards someday doing things on my own.
I quit my day job, when my side hustle was making almost double what my job paid. That and my wife was about to jet as I was working 80-90 hours a week. Zero regrets though!
Being self employed isn't the be all end all, my dad set up his own machine shop in 1980 and working 7 days a week all hours and today we are still working 7 days a week, the stress on family life needs to be judged very finely because at times the lows are very low and missing out on family holidays or birthdays takes its toll because there is always that customer that holds your pack of cards. Yes at times the money can be great but always have a reserve because theirs always an economy bubble crash around every 10 years and then there's foreign competion, you may have a great reputation or product but if you try to fight the cheap foreign imports you will sink, everyone wants cheap cheap cheap or nowadays companies expect machining jobs to be done on just in time, I don't think I could work for someone else as ive been self employed since leaving school but my dad's in his 80s loves machining and 7 day's a week but if someone said would you sell now in this climate with ai and rapidly expanding automation and 3d printing I would consider. What I've come to realise is work to live not live to work, the worst customer I had was had 10 hours sleep in 7 days to get this job out and if I did it they would give me a guarantee and a contract, it nearly killed me and they gave the work to another company, the icing on the cake is both the customer and who got the work went out of business about a year latter. So just because you have the carrot dangled don't get your hopes up nowadays it's easy to do research.
All great advise. I giggled when you said unlimited days off. I can't remember when my last day off was haha even when at home your head never really switches off :/ Nevertheless I would never change what I've done to date :)
Hello, so I'm thinking about starting my own machine shop company and I was just wondering, I feel like the hardest part of starting out is getting a consistent flow or a good flow of work coming in, how do you find work starting out, where do you go. Also when buying machines how do you know what tools to buy with your machines if you're just starting out and have no customer base? Sorry if some of these questions sound like no-brainers.
The E myth is a blueprint for starting a company.(many or at least multiple people working for a business) Lots of people wanting to start a machine shop just want to start a business. The E myth shouldn't apply to those people. There is nothing wrong with wanting to be your own boss as long as you are aware of the costs.
I've been thinking about buying a CNC "Desktop" to start a machining business. What machine would you suggest for starters? I've been looking at the Shapeoko router and the Millright CNC Mega V.
You should not look at it this way, imo. If you want to buy a CNC, with no experience or trade skills, you should consider it an investment in your education. My engineering degree was $50 000, but my tormach was $15 000. Thats why im not going to be upset if I never make money on this machine. It is something I want to do, and the first step is to learn how.
I have a MillRight Mega V. I use it purely for hobby stuff and not trying to make money off it. I primarily cut carbon fiber for drone frames with limited aluminum for my car. Tram can be a bit of a pain to setup up on the Millright. Also anything on the machine that has a phillips screw should be replaced with a cap head allen screw. The Tplate fixturing is not the greatest, a saunders machine works fixture plate would allow for eaier low profile vice use while retaining as much Z height as possible. The tracks for gantry can get debris into them fairly easily then you have that crap imbedding into the wheels/rails. But... the MegaV did allow me to set up for totally submerged machining of carbon fiber which lets me capture all the dust to run through a filtered water recycling setup. I can dispose of my CF waste by simply pulling the filter and putting it into a ziplock.
You'll want something a bit bigger and more powerful to be able to start a machine shop unless you're building a specific widget where a desktop CNC works. A desktop CNC can't sustain machine shop. And with that, you need manufacturing experience to be able to start a machine shop business. More than just being machinist if you even have that to begin with.
@@MrGuitarbike once I acquire a machine of some sorts, I'll be going through John's online courses plus courses through Titan as well. I'm also not going to go into debt to purchase a 15 to 20K machine to learn on either. I would rather buy a more affordable machine to learn the basic's on, then move on to a more expensive, elaborate machine.
@@bettercnc I currently work for a manufacturing company that has their own machine shop as well, and very familiar with the process from design idea, to prototyping, to assembly process. The Mega V for me personally is to learn more on CNC CAM process and to make parts of my own.
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"You have to spend money to make money". You were fortunate John. When my boss found out I had a side hustle he fired me. Worked out for me. 3 years later I bought him out.
sounds like you won.
Good stuff. People always ask "When can I afford to leave my day job?" Another perspective is, "You need to stay there until you can't afford not to."
Exactly. I would come home at 5, play with my kids until they went to bed at 8, then went in the garage and made parts until 1 or 2am every day for like a year and making more than my engineering job. Work got in the way of making money and I couldn’t afford having a job
don't quite your job and most importantly don't listen to this phoney
I jumped in way too fast totally unprepared. Horrible credit and a couple grand lol. I am a jump in the deep end person but I have drastically revised my leaps forward since then to minimize risk and stress, but I leaped in left me job at Parker Hannifin, 3 months later got a part time job at the local hardware store for a year, it actually worked awesome, id suggest that as a perfect transition to make sure you have guaranteed check each week for 20 hours. It makes the transition smoother. I would say side hustle long as possible, then part time job, then go all in. Make sure you get your credit over 700 before you do it. That hurt me more than anything. Bootstrapping my ass off taught me invaluable lessons though.
When the time comes to quit it's well worth having a chat with your boss before handing in your notice, especially if you have a job that has a decent amount of value to the business. They may be willing to let you work part time or sub-contract. In my case the business had to down size and they wanted to increase my work load and decrease my pay. I had a chat with my boss and we came to a deal where I quit and did sub contract work for them and a couple of their customers. It saved them money because they could employ someone less well qualified for the less technical work and only pay me for the specialized work. I came away with a read-made customer base. It wasn't really the work I wanted but it gave me the financial stability I needed to get my other products off the ground.
One good piece of advice is to look around and see how many others are doing the same type of work/ producing the same type of product as you. If you are likely to have a lot of competitors, don't go there. Your competitors have experience and reputation on their side and they have their margins optimized far better than you will be able to. You need to find a niche market. Start small and stay in your job as long as possible so you can get a better idea if your product is going to work out. Niche markets generally have some sort of community. For instance John started making products for the shooting community. Get involved with the community before you bring your product to market. You are building your reputation and in business reputation is important. For example there are online forums. Join the forums and help out where you can. Once you get known, you can start asking questions. For instance if you have an idea for a clever new shooting target ask people what they would like from a target. Be willing to change your designs based on that advice. You may end up completely changing your plans based on that information.
It is also worth setting a cutoff point. It's not something you want to think about but what if the venture fails? If your business is not succeeding you need to have some line drawn in the sand that you won't cross. That is the point where you start job hunting before the business drags you under. In my case I had some savings so my cutoff point was having to borrow money. If I had to borrow money I'd give up and call it quits. I've seen too many people hang on too long, relying on borrowed money until they are basically working just to pay the banks. You may have to borrow. In that case set a limit. Another cutoff could be if the business is not turning a profit after a certain time.
Good timing. I’m pretty sure that I’m gonna hang up the day job at the end of this month. I’ve had a steady business for 8 years now and have been too afraid to pull the plug despite having steady business income that grows without me reaching out for more customers. Good days are ahead, I hope. 😳
That's awesome.. I wish you all the luck!
I wish you all the best too! Good luck!
Do it my man! I started my shop this last year and could not be happier.
When I heard about this on the BOM podcast I couldn't wait for it to come out. Really good advice here!
I'm in engineering school right now and they NEVER teach this stuff. I'm required to take "Intro to sociology" but I'm not required to take an entrepreneurial class? They act like getting hired is the only option and it's honestly frustrating.
Absolutely
Bro, yes. School teaches you too be an employee. A degree is something to show you can finish something and commit to something..... to employers. Never do they talk about how you’re going to sell your skills to the world
Look harder, there is certainly a lecture about entrepreneurship. IT may be for higher semesters.
In fact man, they don't have to teach you how to be an entrepreneur, you must learn your profession first, get experience and understanding of whole process from bottom to top and only then, if you're passionate enough, you'll find your way to it yourself.
@@escapist279 Not quite - sure, experience is great, but more often than not you start because you don't know what you don't know and so stuff you otherwise didn't.
So far I don't think these comments are what he was hoping to read 😆
Good luck y'all.
Thanks for the tips, it's been a long long long road, over many years, trying to build a cnc machine shop in my garage with minimal risk... it's tough with a mortgage and other debt! Your tips are very helpful. Finally have a functional shop with Cinci Arrow 500 and a Mori lathe, zero debt on my equipment... now time to learn to use them proficiently 😆
I have either bought or started 35 businesses. Some of the advice John shared with us today I learned the hard way. But everything he speaks about is very relevant. Awesome advice Sir, I appreciate you for sharing!!!
Great video John - things I’ve definitely thought about while working the “night shift” in my garage after the kids go to bed and reinforces what I’ve been working toward. Also: congrats on the 400k sub mark! 🤘
Hey John; thank you for thinking out loud . Clarity is a scarce asset. Your speech is the best crossover between ''be smart'' and ''man up !''.
As a small business owner myself: well said.
Thank you for this! I needed to hear this. I'm gonna calm down and take my time.
Wow Incredible , this feels so relevant for me. I have worked with Cnc's for 25 years plus starting with a "Cincinnati Saber" .
I have been lucky with property investment on the side of work and inadvertently developed to a tool based around this (started the patent process).
how can you stop machining its so dam rewarding.
I did this 44 yrs ago, lucky I make a world class product but I would advise considering contract manufacturing for other manufacturers. It’s now my main business
Last years choice to leave my good engineering day job to start my small job shop was the hardest choice of my life. I don't have any family so I knew if I failed I might have to move back to the streets but thankfully things are going great!
John, I would have to say some of my success is directly due to you and your amazing channel (especially coming from someone that had never seen a CNC machine before I was encouraged by this channel to get a tormach 770)!
I very much agree with your slow progressive growth approach. Slowly I have been collecting machinery in the garage to open up my capabilities. Having a day job helps fund things and gives access to larger machinery and scrap to make tooling. Time allows me to wait for those perfect machines to come along. Too often I've seen people with no machining background jump into purchasing a shop. It resulted in high turnover, no real understanding of their inner operations, unachievable goals and a lot of frusteration for everybody. Not to mention a bad name in the very small machining community.
Modern CNC was a challenge for me as I had never seen a CNC machine in real life before I bought a 3 axis mill (unless you count building a terrible CNC gantry router). I am the "do it myself" type so it was fun learning CNC but I would never buy a whole shop with out knowing what I was kinda doing. I had no clue people did that.... so risky
I hope that everyone who watches this video takes it to heart and really LISTENS!
Wonderful advice!
Thank you! :)
Lots of good info here. Been working on a new business and was getting a little impatient but it dawned on me a couple weeks ago that it’s okay if it takes time, because many things worth building take time and I also need to still be at least somewhat present for my family. Also, a lot of the entrepreneurial businesses I look up to in their current states were actually quite a while in the making, SMW among them. Gotta keep that day job check as long as I can while I’m figuring stuff out.
thanks!
Good words of advice. I just recently got me my own personal mill for the shop. Me and my dad already have a pretty good welding/fabrication business, so this was my personal addition. Being a cnc machinist where I currently work. I can't wait to be able to personally send some chips flying in the comfort of my shop.
I wish you keep sharing your shop work, as it has been, but this video is your most valuable contribution to everybody. Wish you and your team (family and shop) the best. God bless you.
Very good advice. I ended up quitting my day job almost 3 years ago with really zero customers and just an idea of how I was going to get work. Looking back, it was not the smartest thing I had ever done. I already had experience operating a business and 4 years of being a setup guy/ programmer. I absolutely strongly disliked the job I was at like you mentioned in the video. Fortunately for me, I had enough money to sustain what I was doing (both personally and business expenses) for about a year of making zero dollars stacked in the bank. It was extremely slow to start, but slowly picked up momentum. Everyone has a different situation. I definitely agree with what you say in the video. Sometimes there is a "fuck it" moment in life where you just have to go for it. I took a highly calculated risk with a worst case scenario outcome in the back of my head. I was fortunate that it worked, but it easily could have gone the other way. I appreciate my customers that have gotten me to this point. Good luck to those out there on their journey!
This video came just at the right moment for myself. Thank you very much for being honest about it. I have been ready to quite my job for a while now because I’m not a big fan currently however your point number 3 is spot on. Just because I don’t like my job does not mean I’m in a position to go flat out with my side hustle. Thanks again, I love all your videos and info.
It is quite difficult to know where the golden cutoff point is between "side job and leave your job". Especially when you don't have anything to fall back onto. I've seen people risking it all and it worked out better than expected but also some taking a huge risk leaving their jobs and the venture falling flat on it's face. Thanks for the insight John :)
Great vid with great advice!
I quit my "real job" (which was a pretty cool job) to go back to the family farm, which was a real pay cut, but I don't have much of an affinity for an expensive lifestyle, and made it work.. One day I was working on my truck and decided to (manually) machine out a turbo housing for a bigger compressor and turbine wheel, then my buddy wanted me to do one for him, so I did, He's a better salesman than I am, so he ended up putting it up for sale and a couple years later I've probably made about 50 of them.. It's always going to be a side hustle for me, but it's more than beer money for sure (which was my original goal).. from there I've also started doing injection systems and am locally known for being a mechanic.
Nice video.
I watch this channel because, back in the early 90s, I got drawn into a software startup doing CAD/CAM. I am not a machinist. But having my software spit out reams of G Codes (or the old Heidenhain language) that I could watch turn into a soap mould or a part for an F1 car or whatever was so satisfying. Even if it meant all-night coding sessions, running serial cables across ceilings and burning my fingers soldering on RS232 plugs.
I was so impressed working with the experienced machinists who knew the feeds & speeds and the tool selection to do what was required. On the rare occasions that I tried on my own, I generally produced scrap and broken tools.
But damn, when I see how tools like Fusion work now with the interactive generation of toolpaths on the CAD screen, I think: shit. We were so close to being able to do that in 1993 and it would've been so cool. Except a lot slower on the hardware we had then.
I know how you feel. I'm in CAM and even after 15 years I still get a kick out of seeing some of the really incredible parts people make with my software.
4hr work week is a joke, I suppose some ppl could do well that way but you need purpose in life and thats just not enough to stay on your rails.... All the really successful older folks I know still have a retirement side hustle that is more or less full time just they get to spend more time talking with customers enjoying the process than before. Personally I want to work til the day I die.
thanks man, great advice, you keep it simple and down to earth.
Random question. Would you consider having a discussion about Right to Repair with Louis Rossmann? He's a TH-camr from NYC. He makes videos on business advice, Apple product repairs, and more recently politics and right to repair. Even if you just discuss each other's businesses it would make a nice video.
Thanks John
Im 18 and i just bought my first cnc mill.this was great advice thanks so much!!
Very cool of you to take the time to share your insights and experience! TY!
Probably the best and up to the point advice I ever saw in youtube. Thanks John.
#3 dead on for me!!! thank you sir.
I wanted to quit my main job and I was struggling very much staying there day to day. I was just wanted to get more tools. I then said no more tools even if i need them so much and I desided to quit.it's been few days since then and I feel FREE. I don't care if I don't have the tools I would want to have. I just liking it being working with my projects rather than push my self into something I don't like. I feel comfortable that this will pay of one day but I don't chase money yet. I just do my projects! it is very rewardable and I don't regret. story of life. bingo!
Thanks for putting this video out. I am in the midst of exactly this situation and this brought some desperately needed perspective to my plans. I'll be saving this one in my favorites for review.
To the point and pertinent advice about how/when to transition. Many thanks. Once that's done there's the next challenge of analysing what is succesful about the business activity. You may be fortunate and realise that there is a gold seam by having done/sold something in a different way.
Ok I did the first step and quit now how do I learn CNC?
😂😂😂😂😂😂
@Szabii Ok you did the last step and quit your job. First you get good at what you are passionate about (CNC, Engineering, Cooking etc), then you have an idea that will make money, and make it on a sustainable basis. You "Road Test" it by running with that idea whilst doing your current job. If you think you can't do both then quit the idea because that is the amount of effort it is going to take to make it work if you quit your job. Then quit the job when the passionate idea becomes a better payer then the job.
If you work in a job where your employer has resources that could help you and your idea does not compete in the market that they are in then see if they will take your business as a sub contractor, it saves you making a huge investment, they keep you as a good employee and saves the effort to find a sub contractor who may not offer such good terms. Finally build up as much good will as you can during the early phases and keep as much as you can when you quit your job and thereafter, everyone who helped could be a future customer.
Start making reactive rifle targets. Fail selling those targets. Buy a tormach. Find a wife. Tell wife: i am confident. Read a book. Start making camera mounts. Become rich.
As a business owner, this is a perfect point!
I quit my day job and opened up my shop 16 years ago. I realized I was making better parts for that company then the outside shops they hired. I grabbed about 65+ small production jobs from them. Still making parts for that same company.
I actually am right in this boat. I work a day job. I got to the exact point of "I want to quit my job to pursue my business which I am getting off the ground". I had this mindset as I felt I didn't have enough time. I was putting in triple digit hours a week between my company and my job.
At the time I was a contractor, and called my agency saying "I'm done" when they learned it was because I wanted to move on they kept trying to convince me to wait. I was skeptical because I know a agency makes money off their employees. However I did listen. 1 month later I got hired at the company I was a contractor for 2x the pay and benefits. Now I can cover the costs of having someone work under me doing the work I did not have the time for investing into the company, while keeping my same lifestyle. I plan to stay working on my job until my company is at a point at which surpass what I currently make.
Thanks John, that was perfect timing for my situation, i shut my shop and sold everything to go travel 20 years ago and ended up owning and driving trucks while always having the idea to get back to engineering and im feeling more and more that now is the time to do it, i have spent the last three days pricing machines and materials and checking prices of the products i plan to make but i need to do more research before spending the cash, your channel has been a great help with my attempt to learn fusion360 and your diy clamp video, 5 years ago, is what got me started with cad and cam and learning fusion, you have been an inspiration since i saw your first video so keep up the good work, im sure there are many more that have been positively affected by your channel
AWESOME!
You can sum this up in the immortals words of every dad.
"Don't quit your job until you have another job lined up."
And an idea for making money is in no way a job, proven cashflow is a job.
@CMTeamCobra No, you are confusing the word business and company.
A company is a group of people all specializing in a part of the business where presumably they are replaceable, including the founder.
A business is just any entity that makes money. It can be an address book for a plumber or a lathe for a machinist, it is the key component that changes labor into independent production.
@CMTeamCobra I read it.
It's a blueprint for starting a company, not a business. Company means group of people.
Business just means any mechanism which makes money.
A company is a business but a business isn't necessarily a company.
And there are tons of very highly profitable one man band businesses.
And there are tons of very low profit companies.
The E-Myth is a self help book to start companies, it doesn't help you make a profit.
(edit: which should be your main goal)
@CMTeamCobra To explain this another way.
If I am making 300 thousand dollars net a year making injection molds. That's a business.
If I manage 10 people who make me 200 thousand dollars a year making injection molds, that's a company and a business.
But which is the better business?
The E-Myth is about getting your company to maturity then cashing out.
It's not about making the highest profit long term.
@CMTeamCobra Yeah, it's totally a "what you want out of it" kind of decision.
Which is why the E-Myth kinda rubbed me the wrong way.
As I remember it the book basically shit on the whole solo businessman concept.
Like if you are interested in following your trade/passion(I think the book said technician) then just be an employee.
That's such shit advice.
Lots of businesses are 90% trade work and only a bit other work, some are mostly non trade work. You might feel fine about accounting but hate customer service or visa versa.
Shits complicated. And I can't even blame the book 100%, because it clearly oversimplifies to try to prove a valid point but you have all these people taking every word as gospel.
Like probably my richest relative was my grandad who owned an electronics component selling business that he started like 70 years ago.
From what I've heard he really liked the business and his customers and the trade and the control he had over his income and investments and lots of stuff.
And one of the things he liked was never hiring anybody. It wasn't because he didn't want to make more money, he just didn't want to deal with more complexity.
A good friend of his in the same business, who would often pool their money to get better wholesale prices on stuff did decide to go big and 70 years later neither company still exists and they both made a lot of money, he probably made more then my grandad but like you said it comes at a cost. Both paths are equally valid depending on what you want.
@CMTeamCobra Hey your business model sounds a lot like mine. I am a custom machine builder thats been out on my own for the last 6 years. weve been batting around the idea of starting up and running a small injection mold operation. Basically wanted to help fill some of the unused spindle capacity in the machine shop. I dont like to do regular job shop kinda stuff so this seems like a better fit. How long did it take you to get your molding operation going?
I started on my own after getting layed off from the oil industry. Ordered 2 Tormach machines and went after it. Most stressful 2 years of my life I believe. 4 years into it, I’m building a new shop. I wouldn’t recommend to anyone doing what I did. What a ride haha.
I would say you are pretty spot on.
Thanks for your advice. Really great to hear such a story. I have some thoughts in my head, this helps a lot to figure out what and how to do. Thanks man!
Would you like to come visit Harmony Turbines? I would love to pick your brain on the manufacturing and fabrication side of things. We are pretty close to New York here in Lebanon, PA so the drive would be pretty easy.
Hi John, you have spoken the words of Golden Laying Eggs. Every word is relatable. Thank you for inspiring me and validating my journey. Best Wishes. Cheers
Love this! Thank you! You answered some of my questions which I had. I'm curious to look forward to next videos! Loves! Keep up! Thx!
Really good video I had 3 years of side hustle and went full time last year small machine shop 1 mill 1 lathe it’s hard work but hopefully will pay off
Thank you! Sitting on the fence really hurts my butt but i'll hold tigh until there's at least one signed long term contract :)
Thank you for doing this video on this subject. It was much needed and spot on...
Great advice, thanks John! I’m in a totally different field but these points are still great to things through as I think towards someday doing things on my own.
Listen to John. He’s giving away priceless advice for the cost of your time to watch/listen.
Thanks for all the helpful and great advice sir!
My pleasure!
@@nyccnc Hope that the Hands on Training classes get back on the schedule soon. Hopefully one day, after all the Covid situation calms down.
When do I quit my business?
This is an AWESOME video to show to someone who is thinking about starting a business lol
Iv just started in fusion and will do this slow alongside my day job to fund a mini mill
Great advice on many levels
I quit my day job, when my side hustle was making almost double what my job paid. That and my wife was about to jet as I was working 80-90 hours a week. Zero regrets though!
remember when they tried to make a johnny 5 robot!
Really needed this! Thank you greatly!
7:10 ...I think there are laws against selling family & friends. There are family members that have sorely tempted me though.
John, please make more videos like this!
Man, this was all so good! Thanks John!
Great advise! From someone that is actually doing the work.
Great video! Thanks for posting.
i got fired in 2015, then started a business out of neccesity lol. Still doing it . Outsourcing a bit where its needed.
Hi from the UK....spot on in every way
well said sir, well said
really great advice
Being self employed isn't the be all end all, my dad set up his own machine shop in 1980 and working 7 days a week all hours and today we are still working 7 days a week, the stress on family life needs to be judged very finely because at times the lows are very low and missing out on family holidays or birthdays takes its toll because there is always that customer that holds your pack of cards. Yes at times the money can be great but always have a reserve because theirs always an economy bubble crash around every 10 years and then there's foreign competion, you may have a great reputation or product but if you try to fight the cheap foreign imports you will sink, everyone wants cheap cheap cheap or nowadays companies expect machining jobs to be done on just in time, I don't think I could work for someone else as ive been self employed since leaving school but my dad's in his 80s loves machining and 7 day's a week but if someone said would you sell now in this climate with ai and rapidly expanding automation and 3d printing I would consider. What I've come to realise is work to live not live to work, the worst customer I had was had 10 hours sleep in 7 days to get this job out and if I did it they would give me a guarantee and a contract, it nearly killed me and they gave the work to another company, the icing on the cake is both the customer and who got the work went out of business about a year latter. So just because you have the carrot dangled don't get your hopes up nowadays it's easy to do research.
All great advise. I giggled when you said unlimited days off. I can't remember when my last day off was haha even when at home your head never really switches off :/ Nevertheless I would never change what I've done to date :)
well said..
Hello, so I'm thinking about starting my own machine shop company and I was just wondering, I feel like the hardest part of starting out is getting a consistent flow or a good flow of work coming in, how do you find work starting out, where do you go. Also when buying machines how do you know what tools to buy with your machines if you're just starting out and have no customer base? Sorry if some of these questions sound like no-brainers.
I would like to know as well
Thanks
Great advice
Great information, John!
Good advice
The E myth is a blueprint for starting a company.(many or at least multiple people working for a business)
Lots of people wanting to start a machine shop just want to start a business.
The E myth shouldn't apply to those people.
There is nothing wrong with wanting to be your own boss as long as you are aware of the costs.
Great video great advice!!
Thanks for this.
It does come through!
Thanks for good advice
Great job! Spot on. 👍
Needed this! Video quality is great! what camera is this?
Quality advice.
Still haven't - moonshining my own business:)
excellent advise
Thank you ✌🏽☕️
Nice video John 👍
Had no choice to start my own business. Was retrenched due to covid. Luckily had a side line, now the side line is paying my bills... just barely.
400K subs... movin on up 😀
Good stuff John ! Especially presented "regular, everyday man" way. Cheers !
Lookin pretty today mate
You can always get another job if your endeavors don't work out, everything comes with risk.
Okay, back to step 1...
Step 1, have an idea.
Can I ask what was your day job? I have a theory it was in fintech.
I've been thinking about buying a CNC "Desktop" to start a machining business. What machine would you suggest for starters? I've been looking at the Shapeoko router and the Millright CNC Mega V.
You should not look at it this way, imo. If you want to buy a CNC, with no experience or trade skills, you should consider it an investment in your education. My engineering degree was $50 000, but my tormach was $15 000. Thats why im not going to be upset if I never make money on this machine. It is something I want to do, and the first step is to learn how.
I have a MillRight Mega V. I use it purely for hobby stuff and not trying to make money off it. I primarily cut carbon fiber for drone frames with limited aluminum for my car.
Tram can be a bit of a pain to setup up on the Millright. Also anything on the machine that has a phillips screw should be replaced with a cap head allen screw.
The Tplate fixturing is not the greatest, a saunders machine works fixture plate would allow for eaier low profile vice use while retaining as much Z height as possible.
The tracks for gantry can get debris into them fairly easily then you have that crap imbedding into the wheels/rails.
But... the MegaV did allow me to set up for totally submerged machining of carbon fiber which lets me capture all the dust to run through a filtered water recycling setup. I can dispose of my CF waste by simply pulling the filter and putting it into a ziplock.
You'll want something a bit bigger and more powerful to be able to start a machine shop unless you're building a specific widget where a desktop CNC works. A desktop CNC can't sustain machine shop.
And with that, you need manufacturing experience to be able to start a machine shop business. More than just being machinist if you even have that to begin with.
@@MrGuitarbike once I acquire a machine of some sorts, I'll be going through John's online courses plus courses through Titan as well. I'm also not going to go into debt to purchase a 15 to 20K machine to learn on either. I would rather buy a more affordable machine to learn the basic's on, then move on to a more expensive, elaborate machine.
@@bettercnc I currently work for a manufacturing company that has their own machine shop as well, and very familiar with the process from design idea, to prototyping, to assembly process. The Mega V for me personally is to learn more on CNC CAM process and to make parts of my own.
Right at the peak of your current boss's ass-holery 🤫 Alright imma watch the video now
Damn, that would be nice to buy a machine and put it up against a paycheck.
brooo! why your hair turning grey?! covid finally stressing y'all out up there?