YOUR FEEDRATE IS WRONG! - Haas Automation Tip of the Day
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 20 พ.ค. 2020
- Actually your feedrate might be just fine . . . but just in case you’re hearing some crazy chirps or chattering when you’re milling inside corners or interpolating smaller circular pockets, Mark explains why the cutting edge of your tool might be going way faster than your feedrate seems to indicate, and the different ways you can resolve these issues.
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I appreciate that the first tip was "Haas does this for you" and the second was "But if you don't have our stuff let me show you the other way". Much better than "Buy Haas if you want it to work". Great content.
True but it's more like manually program it and let the Haas machine compensate for it or use a cam system and manually change the feed rate if it can not do it for you, yes it helps on other machines that have no compensation too.
I'm not in the CNC field, have never used anything as big as the Haas machines, and don't even interact with CNC people but with the hours and hours I have spent watching Haas tips of the day, I could totally nail an interview for an operator job.
hi im an employer nice to meet you michael what do you want for pay
Great information. Now I know why I have heard that sound before...at a friends house! Not here! 😉😂
Mark is very intelligent and enjoyable to watch. Makes me a better operator for sure
I'm self taught in mastercam and have used it for about two years. sometimes I've torn my hair about mastercam not adjusting its feed rates for corners and now you show me this? Have a drink on me!
yes this great feature
I have been a prototype machinist programming on mazatrol for 9 years and i learned something new now! I have stopped interpolating and usually only Tornado mill because my mills have become bad very quick in interpolation. Now i can get back to it, thank you!
Thank you for a fantastic explanation! I had never thought about this. As always, obvious facts are only obvious after being shown.
I've been using this formula for years, stole it from Mitsubishi thread mill catalogue once I realised what it was actually doing. Our shop used to spend hours contouring bores to get size and finish, blew some operators minds when they used this formula and got perfect fit first time with perfect surface finish.
Amazing how simple you made it to us, WOW.
I was just thinking about this! Thanks for answering my question!
Great video....and the editing/white board effects are great!
Unbelievably good tip of the day!
Excellent! I learnt something over breakfast, thank you.
I enjoy every of your valuable video, please continue to do more, thanks
I used this formula on a part that had 8 circ interpolated holes ranging from a finish size of .625 to 1.25 all done with the same .5 endmill. All 8 holes programmed at 11k RPM F100 IPM. When I checked the holes sizes I noticed the largest hole was just a couple tenths undersized but the smallest hole was .007 or .008 under programmed size. After adjusting feeds with formula the small hole was right on size just like the bigger ones. Two lessons here. #1 you guys did it again with another great Video. #2 never trust anything coming out of the front office! :)
Great tip...Its amazing informative video. Keep posting such videos boss. Love ur channel
Good stuff, Mark. We should show this vid to our bosses who want to know why it's taking so long!
When u speak u are very fluid and articulate. Kick ass
Thanks for this. This is a great Tip! There will be a similar but opposite situation when milling external surfaces, Boss, rads, curves too.
Feed rate X (Boss dia + tool dia)/ Boss dia
1/2" tool cutting 2" boss @ 30 in/min
F30 X (2+.5)/2
F30 X (2.5)/2
F30 X 1.25
F = 37.5 in/min
Rerunning a part I did few months back. Small holes always came out like crap. Now I why!
This morning got an PO for 100 for more those M.F'ers. Now I'm going to Kill It!
Thanks for all the helpful tips!
Same goes for the outside of a circular boss as well. And yes fusion has this as well, under the feed optimization option.
Same thing happens when you program an inside radius like in a pocket. Some cam systems will compensate by slowing the feed rate when approaching the radius.
On the outside you would have to speed it up not slow it down.
Thanks for the video.
Very well explained
Thanks, that is interesting. Especially since I was making holes today on a Prototrak mill, the holes need to be a precise size that does not match any of our cutting tools! I didn't think about the problem and just set 5 ipm (in plastic with a 1/4 inch end mill) and it worked fine, but now I need to figure out what speed was actually being cut!
By the way, we do have several Haas machines where I work, but I am not allowed to use them (yet)!
that's helpful thank you
Very nice!
Mark you are the person I inspire to be.
We've started watching these everyday in our breaks hehe. good entertainment, and most of the videos fit a coffee break very well :D Good videos!
Great, mate!
Din punctul meu de vedere oamenii în funcție de domeniul de ei aleși ar trebui să fie capabili sa rezolve aproape orice problema!
Pe mine distractia nu mă interesează și cred că in lume nu este neaparat necesară!!!
Îmi place să te bucuri de viață!!!
Perfect time, I was about to make a 0.65 pocket with a 1/2" endmill and didn't know this.
Me too.. but i alredy did 0.69 slot with 1/2 end mill
Great tips as usual! Thanks for sharing.
Whoahhhhh this actually blew my mind. No wonder I was having so much trouble with a hole like this recently. Seems so obvious now
So how close does the mill have to to the diameter of the whole to justify using this formula? Or do you have to use this formula any time you bore a hole or helix start a pocket?
This is really the kind of thing that should be taught in month 1 of machinist school... I know it was in mine. Also the OD formula is a bit different.
I've known about this since I was in machining school as well but I want to know what the Haas controller does if you use CC or a G12/13. Does it still use the tool centerline? or the "part line"?
@@derekrutrough2334 CC ought to be Heidenhain command, haven't heard it used on any other controller. As for G12/13, as long as g41/42 is not active, it should follow tool centerline
Would you not get the inverse of this problem when milling a feature such as an integral locating pin?
May I apply the same for big cutter running over small projection
Mark, you gave us the formula for an inner cut, what about an outer cut? How do I find out how much a should increase feed while rolling around corners? Thanks for all your tips of the day.
Simplified, cutter diameter divided by part diameter equals the percentage of increase (outside corner) or the percentage of decrease (inside corner) to linear feedrate. In Mark's example: .5/.550=.909, .909x30=27.27 .... So 30-27.27=2.73 ... Using the same parameters for an outside corner, you would add 27.27 to 30 ... So 30+27.27=57.27 ipm ... I hope this makes sense.
What a smart-haas, this guy...
Cu acest tip de oameni vreau să lucrez!!!
This whole wear cutter compensation is new to me, I’ve always put the diameter in the controller and run comp in the controller. What is the benefit of using wear especially with tool probes you can start right off of the actual dimension of your tool? The only thing I can see is you don’t have to touch off the diameter.
I imagine because it's better for today's modern CAM software to generate toolpaths while being aware of the actual cutter diameter, for varying stepovers to maintain constant tool engagement and stuff like that. So it's better to do the program with the nominal dimension and put only the difference to the actual dimension in compensation.
On heidenhain u can activate m110 and it lowerd speed in a curved line/radius automatically. M111 to deactivate.
great video this is the best explanation for a problem that I have been dealing with for many years now... Truth be told I never understood the formula; however lacking a education the thing that I did was just to go a third or a quarter of my programmed feed rate. this worked because I am cutting aluminum with conservative feed rates. I was basically faking it. Thankyou for explaining to me how I should compute this. However how do I know when to do this feed rate adjustment, I assume it should be done when the diameter of the tool path is smaller than the diameter of the cutter????
We came close to adding a rule-of-thumb to the video, something like "If your tool diameter is 50% the size of the hole you're milling, or larger, then cut your feedrate in half". Any feedrate change in these circumstances would be helpful. The formula does a good job though, especially for threadmilling. The accel/decel of the machine, chip thinning, and the amount of stock that is left to remove, all play into a 'perfect' feedrate. We finally gave up, and settled on just explaining the formula. Great comment. - Mark
That's why we use Mastercam... 1like from our channel....really good Tip
Yes I use that too. Super tip of the day
Im assembling my cnc (self made, in my free time, w 1.8 kw spindle, 2022 the first chips planned) and learning G+M Code. Its all about , feeds, speeds and MRR. Thank you for sharing. Milling outside radius you increase the feed, feed * toolpathradius/cornerradius right?
Good luck! I just about managed to finish mine - when it's working you'll feel great! How's it coming along?
@@robbiejames1540 It grows like a tree, slow, you dont see it, but it grows. I use the maschine manually, to produce the cnc Atachments. Closedloop steppers and cnc controller and other electronics are prepared. Still a lot of work.
@@Imba-gt7qi
Keep at it! Good luck!
It is a great opportunity watching your videos I really appreciate. please could you write a program with G and M code for slot cutting explaining every details of the codes. Thanks
what about when roughing? isn't it theoretically just the max feed pr. tooth thats important. Which should be biggest at the direction of travel of the center path.
Why F30 Sir.. ? Where did you get that feedrate? Thank you
mark: setting 44 gets complicated
me: hold my beer
You touched on this a little at the end but turning on cutter compensation in CAM and entering your tool dia in the offsets should cover this for you right? I have never heard of someone NOT entering tool diameter in offsets even if you aren't using cutter compensation. That just seems... dumb.
As a learning programmer and a machine set up person is there a video on how to set a y axis parting tool in a DS 30Y?
That would be a great topic. We'd looked at doing this years ago. We'll move it up on the list. For now, I'd check with your tooling supplier, and have them give you some tips. The Sandvik Applications guys are always helpful, and can explain how to use their CoroCut QD. th-cam.com/video/BWmdsB_VUYg/w-d-xo.html - Mark
Thank you Mr. Terryberry I will check that out. I reference all of these videos for help when I'm stuck so I really appreciate what your doing.
is the opposite true? on an OD is your feedrate slower than it should be?
This is why when back in the day when I was just an operator, the "10-year experience automotive aerospace precision high speed boomer CNC programmer" always broke the treadmill after 10 holes and blamed it on me.
Muy bueno,pero lo pueden traducir al español,por favor
4:55 thanks, i actually made myself an app for my phone to calculate the correct feedrate :)
Have you considered posting it on the app store?
@@christopherhowson7383 no
I have two machines with Fanuc controls that will compensate for this automatically, and two that are about 10 years older that do not. Never noticed this until I took a job that was originally run on one of the older machines and moved it the the newer one and the cycle time went up by 15 minutes! 🤯 Anyone know of a Fanuc setting that turns this option on/off so it's not such a pain changing a job from machine to machine?
The older machines are Fanuc 31i model A and the newer machines are Fanuc 31i model B.
THANKS for metric!! Honestly the only thing holding me back from considering a HAAS once the shops grows, is the fear of having the entire machine being designed around imperial units. That just feels unsuitable for metric projects only. Greets from Germany, nobody explains better than Haas 😍
It’s funny, the Classic control did the internal calculations in Inches, and converted to mm. On the Next Gen Control, the internal calculations are all in metric now, and converted to inch when in Inch Mode :)
I live in New Zealand and have five HAAS machines and don’t have any issues with it reading our programs that are in millimetres.
Pretty sure Haas is now 100% metric
So if I use a G41 in my code that was posted and diameter and wear would that compensate correctly?
Yes. And if you didn’t, you’d probably never notice.... unless you are threadmilling or cutting a small circular pockets with a big end mill.
I having problems with using G41 (wear) thread mill making offset. Other problem is “cutter comp begin with G02 or G03”.posted from Mastercam.?
so for the formula do you just get a feed rate like normal? and then that's the # for the formula?
Yes. The F30. In the example was just what I might have normally run that endmill at. It will vary based on tool and material. We should’ve mentioned that. Thanks for the comment. - Mark
@@markterryberry4477 thanks
Any qcode to read feedrate ?
Feedrate = How fast I can shove tacos in my mouth.
And if you use cam software and also fill in you're tool diameter, does it calculated by itself to the correct feed ?
Many CAM systems take care of this for us, some don’t though, especially for threadmilling. I would not buy a CAM system today without dynamic/trochoidal/adaptive toolpaths, but if a CAM system didn’t adjust for these feedrates in arcs, it would not be a deal breaker for me, I’m usually only concerned about it in very specific situations, like the ones we show in this video, and it’s easy to adjust for. - Mark
My 30 years old machine is calculating pockets feed by own hahaha
this tought me math faster than school
wooooo i'm early!
Correct feed= theoric feed (Hole di.-Tool di.)/Hole di.
H7 hole milling cut feed rate=r x 100(mm/min)
Well I always program the parts with the control compensation, not wear, so it always uses the offset values of the tools… I don’t even know what the “wear” option in mastercam does😂😂😂😂
Здравствуйте , почему у вас очень мало выпусков по токарным станкам
Потому что ФРЕЗЫ РУЛЯТ.
Шутка.
Думаю потому что фрезеровка сложнее, а следовательно интересней.
CFIN ftw
That should save some end mills..)
And steel unable to understand why haas mills lags and freezes on feed rates above 1200mm/min.
i would love to see this video in metric :(
formula and tip is the same
Yes, the same formula will work in Metric. If we were cutting a 14mm hole, with a 12mm end mill, and we wanted a feedrate of F750., then we could fill in the formula as F750. x (14 - 12)/14, which gives us a program feedrate of about F107.14. Hope that helps. I’ll be sure to write things up in metric as well next time - Mark
How critical is this when milling hard woods?
Feedrate should be sped up when going around outside of radius then.
Correct
In theory yes. Easy to do as I've already done these exact formulas before.
Internal;
F x (hole dia - tool dia) / hole dia
External;
F x (hole dia + tool dia) / hole dia
BUT from experience, surface finishes could be reduced doing this depending on what machine/tool type you're using. If time isn't a big issue for you it may be better just to leave it for external rads.
Depends on Ae.
you dont need to because around the outside the finish gets better because it reduces chip load. if youre a job shop looking to save every second then yeah. but none of the softwares provide an option to speed up around the outside so that tells you its not a very common practice.
Türkçe alt yazı istiyoruz lütfen
IJK video plz.
Take a look at our Peck Drilling video for more on IJK as it relates to drilling, and if you are looking for IJK info during G02/G03 arcs, keep checking back in. We’ll be releasing a video on that in the next month. - Mark. m.th-cam.com/video/AM6nVgKjBQo/w-d-xo.html
For IJK when using a Boring Cycle on a mill (G76), check out this video: th-cam.com/video/IbJOgvXADU0/w-d-xo.html. We are starting to see that IJK have a different meaning with each cycle they are used with. - Mark
Z❤Y
nothing bout tool %75 smaller than hole and feed rate is not that much issue LOL.
fanuc do it for you if use G41/G42 and G2/G3 feed rates are smaller than programmed. if you use CAM make G1 lines around round LOL based on your resolution. and when CAM makes same part program Size bigger than fanuc can hold 250kb and i program same part hand using allready made makros and can fit 100 same program SAME time in machine LOL
I wish HAAS would make bigger machines so they could take a bigger chunk out of the HIIIIIIGH end market.
Their excellent business practices and INFINITELY supperior controllers would overturn 50 years of industrial inbreeding overnight. Fanuc would be instantly out of business and the world would be a better place for it.
Or if Haas would stop making machines and put their controllers on superior machines
@@ZZ3CR Nothing wrong with a haas. Its kinda like "Would you try to haul a load in a pickup truck that is designed for a semi?" No, you would use the semi. Haas will cut any material you want. Maybe not as fast as other machines, but they also dont cost what those other machines cost.
I'm only here for the Lista toolbox...
I really like our 9-drawer wood-top Lista roller cabinet. It is at the perfect height for me which is 1” below my elbows. I’m 5’ 10” + boots.
It looks like our particular Lista cabinets were custom built.
They do not have a model number on them, which is the case for most Listas, I am told.
The Lista 9-Drawer Cabinet, with butcher-block top, we use most often is 28.5x56.5”, and 35.25” tall without wheels (43.25” Floor to Top of wood top, with wheels).
The larger Stainless-top Listas we have in the videos are 28.75 x 56.5”, 46” tall (53.5” Floor to top with wheels).
Below is the contact information for the Sales person, Robert Serrano, at DMARK/Lista.
- Mark
Robert Serrano
Cell#818-739-9446
Email: rserrano@dmarkcorp.com
Ещё бы с русским переводом ...
i found this video and was wondering if haas machine were capable of using these macro and how to set it up? th-cam.com/video/R1LJ1yQBrKQ/w-d-xo.html
În viziunea mea asta înseamnăviață normală!!!
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what do you know? 30/11=2.73
If you didn't know this you probably shouldn't be programming
THIS 👆
🇧🇷Daniel Machado - Brazil🌎🇺🇸