The Best $30 Loudspeakers?
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 24 ส.ค. 2022
- The World's Best Loudspeakers?---Not. The Best $30 speakers?--maybe. We build and test two pair of DML loudspeakers and test them against a pair of high quality bookshelf speakers. You decide if they are as good as claimed.
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Thanks for making this project! I've followed the DML thread on Parts Express TechTalk for years and always considered making them. Your video has satisfied my urge to make them. There seems to be too much energy from the panels in the upper mids and lower treble range. My ears are particularly sensitive to that frequency range at my age. I was listening with my headphones on. Great video!
Pretty cool Frank. Thanks for the instructional vid.
I made these last year from the same video as you. I was highly impressed with how well they sound in my shop. I also used a thin piece of door skin clipped at only 1 end between a couple of 2x4s… very nice sound with different ranges
Move them away from the ceiling and closer to ear level. A good graphic EQ would be very helpful in balancing the frequency response.
I’ve just found your channel, enjoyed the detailed build out and honest perspective and concise review, I do have an idea now of what to expect and how to implement the DML speakers, I would be considering maybe a ribbon super tweeter, definitely an active crossover and a cheap used powered subwoofer, they definitely seem more open in mid range and higher mids , thanks for the candid video and review
I highly suggest using a sub woofer with DML's. Great video Frank, cheers.
DML speakers need to have much larger surface area to get more bass. However, in this comparison the gap between bass output would be significantly closer if you switched positions. Your box speakers are right up near the wall and close to the ceiling, which gives them a huge boost in bass from boundary gain. Boundary gain doesn't produce the highest quality (kinda boomy) of base, but it does significantly boost the amplitude.
Good point.
DML has a very good dispertion, just add small sub woffer. it will be excellence !
👍 Good job. If you put a thin coat of 50/50 wood glue to water on the foam panels they will sound way better. You could always hang your acoustic tile panels on their side without any major change to the sound as well to get them out of the way.
A huge benefit DML's give you is that the sound is distributed evenly over the entire room so that everywhere is a a sweet spot unlike those bookshelf's. True EPS styrofoam with 50/50 application as stated above sounds way better than XPS which is what you are using.
Hook up that big sub you have there with just the DML's and give them a go and see what you think, especially about being able to hear both channels the same no matter where you are in the shop. Also try out just the acoustic panels standalone and then the foam to get an idea of what sound you are getting from the individual pairs. Those 40w exciters at 4ohm are not going to hurt your receiver in any way. Good luck.
Well that's odd. I've never seen anyone make a DML using EPS styrofoam. They all use XPS styrofoam. Are you sure you didn't mix the two up in your comment?
given what a hassle EPS is... thats a test thats never gonna happen, unless someone braver than i does it. hate EPS with a passion.
@@firecloud77 Plenty of people use and prefer EPS over XPS. But you specifically need high-density EPS, which can be hard to obtain depending on where you live. The material is also harder to process (for most hobbyists, anyway).
DMLs perform very well when paired with a sub, meaning the DMLs are on a 2nd or 3rd order high-pass filter: they're weird below 200Hz, so a sub must carry everything below that. They also seem to be a bit sensitive to wall reflections, and their mounting restrictions make it difficult to experiment with placement. There is a sweet spot that's defined by your unique room, good luck finding it.
DMLs are not superior to even mid-budget bookshelf speakers. That said, they are very different, and they are very cheap.
Try using them for height channels in surround applications e.g., 7.0.2 - 7.2.6 with an Atmos audio source. The DMLs' lack of directionality is perfect for surround applications.
nice test. DMLs need to be paired with subwoofers as they completely lack bass response.
Did you make sure the speakers are phased correctly. If they are it helps the bass however that kind of speaker probably can't reproduce bass very well. I agree that a sub woofer would improve the sound with the DML speakers. The bookshelf speakers with the DML sound really good together. My computer speakers are good so I could hear the bass.
Yep, everything is phased properly.
It may be constructive to play a mono music signal through 2 channels, one through the DML speaker, and the other through the ported speaker, and use an equalizer for each channel to balance the low and high frequencies. After all, as you note, the bookshelf speakers have been constructed to give a balanced response, which may have been tested at the design stage to give a flat response over the audio frequency range, whereas the DML have somewhat arbitrary dimensions, and are radiating from both front and back, hanging in the middle of the room as they appear to be, allowing the room space to dictate where low frequencies may reinforce or cancel out. A sound adsorbing surface behind the DMLs would improve bass quality, for little extra cost.
When soldering, tin both the wire and the tag. Then grasp the wire someway away from the solder and hold the tinned wire neatly onto the tag and reheat them together. Works every time you don't need three hands.......as long as the soldering iron is cleaned by wiping on a damp sponge or rag. Never wipe the iron tip prior to putting it away, always before each joint is made to make it shine not dull and dark. If it is dull and dark add a little flux or cored solder.
But then you knew that, didn't you?
I looked on the manufacturers website and they mentioned materials to use. Acoustic ceiling tiles were not on the recommended list. They were mentioned as a not optimal thing to use. I believe the manufacturer over Tech ingredients.
If you added a sub with the DML speakers, it should work out.
It would certainly help.
DIY DML' s are a fun project and are quite interesting. There was a lot of purchase created by Tech Industries very click baitey titled video. This technology has been around for a very long time, there is a reason that they have not become more prevalent. They will never be comparable to standard speakers, not just in the lower frequencies but also in mids and highs. The level of detail produced by decent speakers is just plainly superior. They are good for a piece of flat board, but that's about it.
Have you tried EQ?
Any chance you can list the model of woofers you are testin. The one with little more bass is which one?
Not testing woofers, per se. The DML panel with more low end response is the acoustic tile panel if that is what you are asking.
I am going to make some and wire plug them into my klipsch powered amped sub instead of the two desk speakers and see what happens
Am going to suround my 25 X 40 TV for the center channel.
You forgot to conect the subwofer with the DML
- I see alot of people making videos of their DIY DMLs after the Tech Ingredients Video released with the general impression theyre terrible after speakers or they are just amused that Audio is coming from something thats not the Standard Speaker. I think if you spend enough time experimenting DTMs, as well as knowing when its appropriate to use them, they can be extremely effective over traditional speakers. Id say in some cases, they can dynamics and depth when paired Traditional Speakers them in my experiences.
- I spent a lot of time working with DMLs the last couple years. A lot of that was Trial and Error before being able to use them effectively in a Practical Alternative or Solution when doing Audio Consulting and Installations. I think the Tech ingredients Video was a little misleading and sensationalized but im glad he made the video. It created alot of buzz and opened a lot of peoples eyes to this Tech or Method of Speaker.
- Ill state some things to maybe help my Credibility/Qualification when talking about DMLs. For around 15 years Ive been an Audioe Enthusiast and worked in many areas of the Industry. From personal passion projects to consulting work. Mainly Based around Home Audio. Ive designed and built 100s of Custom Speakers using the standard "Driver and Cabinet" design that 99% of the entire industry uses and most speakers are that way for a reason. Ive also dont work in Designing and Consulting for a number of Small Recording Studios, Small Bars/Venues, and Home Theatres. Everything is factored into the equation from the Size, Shape, Materials, of Space which is crucial for the Best Estimations on an optimal Audio Solutions for the Budget and Purpose. Acoustic Treatment of the space is also a very Important.
- Anyways, That was long winded. I simply wanted to say these can do an amazing job at doing this average speakers cannot. The amount of soundstage when used for Stereo or Home Theatre purposes is mind blowing. They can completely eliminate the Single Point Fixation that traditional setups have, which is a thing where your Brain constantly fixates on the point or source the audio is coming from whether its conscious and/or subconscious, and that is how were conditioned to perceive sound sound on many levels. DMLs can make it to where youre brain cannot pinpoint or determine the precise source of audio so easily since DMLs can throw a massive wall of Audio waves to where ithe sound stage feels infinite and it gives you this feeling of being apart of or "one" with the Audio itself. So hard to describe but its a completely foreign yet amazing/transcendental experience when listening to music or watching a film. I use FMLs for my 9.1 Home Theater setup on every surround channels except for the Subwoofers and the L/R mains. Let me tell you, when things are happening, whether its action with explosions/bullets/crashing in the environment or a Thriller with all the layers and Ambience and Depth. its scary how much it transforms your space into the scene itself. Its almost unnerving.
- The best way I can describe it is if you have ever had decent headphones on and listened to "3D Audio or Binaural Audio" that are on youtube. The ones that make you feel in like your there.
I agree the sound field is very different. I plan to set up a pair (LF and RF) for my home theater to see how they sound. I would leave center, rear and SW the same. Would covering the foam panels with thin material change their performance much? How did you treat yours so they fit in with the room better? Also thought an end grain balsa panel could just be stained and oiled and be attractive.
@@woodandmetalshoptime8048 th-cam.com/video/XC814uQjlaE/w-d-xo.html he tests a bunch of different variants of dml speaker in that video.
"Anyways, that was long-winded"
Proceeds for another 1000 words...
@@woodandmetalshoptime8048 Thin cloth attached with push pins on the back work great.
You are correct, DML are poor below 200 HZ. they can not create the pressure needed.
I know a guy who builds car audio systems he said there's a science to placement of woofers tweeters for sound wave compression I had just bought pair of 7" 3way speakers for my 68 mustang he told me just throw those away they're going to sound like chit he was right
I have made several DLM style speakers using different drivers. I have also found that overall end grain balsa wood panels sound the best to me. I listen to all genres and have no issue with bass.
Sound of a traditional cone speaker and tweeter is manufactured to produce what we have been a established as sound for our ears. But in nature that is not proper representation of how sound is produced. That being said your disappointment is not justified other than the fact that your comparing apples to oranges.
I have a 4 panel set up using the balsa wood and have plenty of bass even with 2 and they fill a room from every direction. 😊
Like a big square APM Sony loudspeaker
You can find an affordable subwoofer for about $100 new. I’ve collected several speakers and you really do want variety in frequency capability. A subwoofer can’t hit high notes for a reason. I understand the dml will provide good soundstage and highs. Subs aren’t good at soundstage and highs.
Can someone with a better understanding of this help me understand why you can't just boost the bass on the equalizer to get more bass sound with these panels? This seems obvious to me, but since it is not mentioned on any of the videos I have watched on this topic, there must be some logical reason.
I certainly tried he bass controls but the panels didn't have the frequency response. Perhaps it was also due to the size of the exciter which is much smaller than the voice coil assembly on the bookshelf speakers?
certain speakers only output certain frequencies. His bookshelf speakers have multiple speakers on them for that reason (probably, 99% of them do). tweeters and mid range and subs etc.
boosting bass to a tweeter also doesn't do anything. These exciters on foam are like tweeters.. but if you put them on a wood board they get more mids and no idea how to get them to be more like a subwoofer
that being said, subwoofers usually have way more wattage to them so I think you'd need several of these to equal one subwoofer.
Because base notes are low frequency, they carry less energy and in order to get them to a place where you can hear them, you need a greater amplitude. That means you need to move more air around, basically. See how deep the cone is on a subwoofer? That whole thing moves back and forth an inch or two in order to produce base notes. It moves a lot of air.
The audio exciters don't move the panel back and forth for enough, so in order to get a base response, you'd need a massive panel to make up for the fact, or an exciter that could move further. There is a similar problem with elecrostatic speakers, which have fantastic fidelity in the mid to high range, but because they can only move the membrane back and forth the small distance between the stators, they just can't move enough air to get a loud base response unless the panel approaches the size of your room.
There's no baffle, for low frequencies the rear wave cancels the front wave because they are out of phase. In a standard ported woofer, the mass of air in the port delays the rear wave approximately half a wave in the tuned region.
Made for talk radio
Oh no, the dogs didnt have a mask on? Now get your rock on ..... cool speakers for cheaper....
hows the dog ?
For the cost of the material to make the speakers it is not that bad. Like any high end speakers money spent makes a big differences.
I thought they sounded amazing... i wouldnt run them alone, would have them with house speakers.
Struggled to get past 10 minutes. !!!
No way I'm going to punish myself to 1 hour 8 minutes!!!!
This is like watching , Paint Dry!!
No man????
@1:03:33 that song tho
Yeah, royalty free mostly sucks.
Sounds the same to me.
Watching the uploaded video on my home theater system, the difference is quite noticeable. On my laptop, there is not much difference because the laptop's little speakers don't reproduce the low end anyway.
Tech Ingredients
I say bookshelf speakers are noticeably better
whoa whoa whoa at the end you insult peoples computer audio setups but think they have better on their tv? it's generally the opposite in this day and age.
Most of us have 5.1 digital sound on our TVs these days.
@@woodandmetalshoptime8048 I would say about 85% of the world uses the stereo built into the flat screen tv
too much face time here...Speed up and hyperlapse the video... who has time for an hour long video... I would rather watch a movie...!!! And too much blabbering... not really interesting...!!!
Off you go then. Bye bye, we won’t miss you
Is this guy for real? 😂😂😂
It was a great video!