MV Dali and the Francis Scott Key Bridge | March 31 Update & Who Pays for the Salvage?
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 8 พ.ค. 2024
- Who Pays?
What's Going on With Shipping?
March 31, 2024
In this episode - maritime historian at Campbell University (@campbelledu) and former merchant mariner - provides an update on MV Dali and discusses the insurance ramifications of the accident.
#dali #baltimorebridge #baltimore #shipping #brdigecollapse #supplychain #containerships #containerships
00:00 Update on MV Dali and Key Bridge
03:36 Review of Power Outage on Dali
07:15 Dali Sitting on Gas Lines
10:18 Insurance Implications
19:08 $3.1 Billion in Insurance!
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Key Bridge Response 2024
www.keybridgeresponse2024.com/
gCaptain - Baltimore Bridge Collapse
gcaptain.com/tag/baltimore-br...
Marine Traffic
www.marinetraffic.com
Dali Cargo owners face massive costs if general average is declared
theloadstar.com/dali-cargo-ow...
International Group of P&I Clubs
www.igpandi.org/reinsurance/
I love one guy in his office can provide better news and information than dozens of multimillion dollar news agencies.
He was actually on the news. The problem is that if you're not interested in a topic, you'll change the channel after 5 minutes. As a side effect, they never talk with one person or one topic for very long. Everyone here chose to be here, which is why they can take longer.
I get all my tropical storm information from some amateur dude and a retired local TV meteorologist
He has 26 minutes,news cast 2 at the most.
msm reporting and investigation involves asking the government for their public narrative and then printing it. Journalism is dead.
Those news agencies are multimillion dollar because they cater for the masses and the masses don't have interest for these niche subjects, it is what it is XD
I’m glad the TH-cam algorithm led me to your channel after this incident. It’s really terrible so often but it gave this channel a spotlight it definitely deserved
Sal is a great bank of information on shipping. Check out a few of his older videos as they help with what is going on with inflation and rising cost of various items (gas/food/etc) from longer shipping routes, never mind this current incident.
Who is running Google? TH-cam? Who owns it? Have they turned it over to AI???
Amazing... he is not being censored.
Pay ? We do
TimBatsea brought me here
I found your channel during the Evergiven fiasco and you have been the best source of information in the shipping sector I have ever seen. Everyone else is going down weird side roads talking about hacking and terrorists and how the ship went straight towards the bridge without understanding a thing about how ships work. The ability to speak on this subject knowledgeably after listening to you is a great benefit of watching the channel. Thank you for being here and knowing what you are talking about.
I'm so tired of the "HACKING - TERRORISTS - DISABLED BLACK BOX" type stuff
He's a firefighter, not a sailor. Which is good but until you find the answer you still have to remain open to terrorism and it seems to be more and more the motive. The FBI warned of Major Red flags.
Correction, that was Everforeward, not Evergiven in the Suez Canal.
USA had to pay for that screw-up.
After a month of being lodged in Maryland's Chesapeake Bay, the Ever Forward cargo ship is finally free. Thanks to the help of a high tide, several tug boats and barges - and perhaps a little Easter Sunday miracle - crews plucked the the 1,095-foot ship free from the shallows off Pasadena, Md., on Sunday.Apr 17, 2022
🟢China wasnt responsible for Evergiven, stuck in the MARYLAND LOCK. The pilot who navigated it was. China is winning that court battle and frankly I hope they sock it to them. It was clearly deliberate.
This is a court case and eventually after seven to five years it will be resolve. However, the tax payers from other states will still be on the hook.... No one will reminder 2024 in 2030...
@@hannahp1108Fools always find their conclusions before they even consider the facts
My cousin worked and sailed on big containerships for Maersk Sealand and expressed surprise at the loss of power as the ships he was on going into or out of Baltimore always had all 5 diesel generators running. And before sailing in toward Baltimore they would come to a complete stop and go through a checklist to ensure all system was operating correctly.
So simple. Aviation uses checklists
As someone with a bridge in my front yard, and a second one being built in my backyard - im extremely happy to have found this channel.
Subscribe and Like! :)
This is hilarious. Please do a shorts and have Sal show it! 😅
@@dertythegrowerThat’s just tempting fate.
Are you the person who stole the bridge in Akron Ohio?
Sounds like your property bridges the two bridges…
This is the kind of content that really sets Sal above and beyond. By now, there are probably a hundred jamokes out there providing updates on the what and how of the wreck and regurgitating readily available info. Where the rubber hits the road is identifying and assessing who loses and who wins in these accidents.
Happy Easter to you and your family. Thank you for your great informative videos.
Jamokes. 😂😂😂 Fughetaboutit........
Are you a Fedboi too? 🤡
@@strychnyne3530 Jamokes; one of my go-to words to describe particular types.
Jamoke: a person who will give you something then turn around and take it back. Anashinaba.
These videos are a great antidote to the garbage flying around social media right now. Never ceases to amaze me how many people are "suddenly an expert" on whatever the headline of the day happens to be.
I love the folks claiming that some billionaire had insurance on the bridge and stands to collect $1b on his claim. I call BS!
This guy is one. He has zero idea what he is talking about
Yes, all those Medical geniuses of Covid 19 and Lockdowns now are bridge and shipping-taking experts. Thank goodness your field is shipping and one of the more valued reasonable talking experts about the (World Wide) Disaste that this has caused. Seems we will have to wait and see the effect and the problems that are not known, yet to be factored into this occurrence that will haunt the entire process of rebuilding and mitigation to the final outcome...
You should probably wake up
It's to the point now that I almost feel like people shouldn't be allowed to talk about a topic unless they have training and experience in it and a have a permit to do so.
Hi Sal, No shaft generator on this class, There are turbogenerators that operate off exhaust gas waste heat at sea speed RPM’s. The lighting pattern of the second power up indicates that the EDG did come on line and then failed or tripped soon after. These Hyundai class have a string of main deck lights on the Emergency circuit for emergency egress, and usually one flood light on the bow for emergency anchor operations. The second power up lighting pattern seems to indicate this. One of the two steering motors is also on the E-Bus and switches automatically when EDG comes on. Rudder response is slower than normal while on Emergency power, but is available. Unmentioned in all this is the heroic efforts of the bow team in getting the port anchor out and evacuating the bow before the bridge came down on their heads. I was master on three Hyundai built large container ships for Maersk Lines and have been to Baltimore Sea Girt many times. I’m sure that there will be issues uncovered regarding maintenance and repairs that reach into the technical management ashore.
This may be the ONLY channel where I hear more than I want to know and I listen to it anyway. Sal, thanks for all you do to illuminate the way for us landlubbers.
An interesting thought that the crew is still onboard.
Seems obvious if you realize that so many of their duties are the same whether they're under way or not.
@@CraftAeroalso, if the crew abandons, the vessel can be declared Salvage & grabbed by who-knows-whom.
@@generalputnam2990They'd only need to leave one crew-member onboard to maintain any sort of maritime sovereignty.
But it takes the entire crew to run the ship, whether they're under way or not.
@@generalputnam2990 "..declared Salvage & grabbed by who-knows-whom..."
Do the Boy Scouts still have Sea Explorers!? Be a heck of a catch for the Dundalk/Middle River Troop!
@@mderline4412wow, I didn’t even know that was ever a thing with the Boy Scouts
No conspiracy theories, here, just real facts. Thank you for your honest and forthright reporting.
lol. yeah. hard to find that
Yeah its a rare to find it now. All social media platforms are slandering Indians as the crew was Indians. Racist comments and pictures are how most people are dealing with this situation.
@@aritrachatterjee87I keep reading that, but haven't seen any myself.
Plenty of facts here some are calling "CT." Every obscured fact is a "conspiracy theory" before it gets exposed, rethink the term.
The only conspirators are the Government.
With all the "Talking Head" noise going around in the world today, it's refreshing to be able to listen to someone like you Sal. We need folks like you teaching school at all levels. Keep up the good work.
For all, literally anything can take down a vessel's electrical system.
I was stationed aboard a USN destroyer in the mid- to late-1980s. We were coming up the Chesapeake Bay headed for Norfolk.
As we approached the Hampton Roads Bridge-Tunnel, a ventilation motor shorted. Literally before the fuses could blow, the protection circuits further upstream kicked in and opened the main breakers to our two operating generators, plunging the ship in the dark and headed towards the tunnel islands.
Fortunately, my fellow engineers and I were quick-on-the-draw to get the generators back up and running, and the main breakers closed, restoring power to the ship and regaining control.
While Engineering trains for many casualties (fire, flooding, leaks, etc.), this was one that nobody expected to happen.
bad breaker type if it opens before fuses melt. lack oftesting?
@@didyuknow, to my recollection, we never did determine the cause of the shutdown.
As for testing, there was nothing in the tech manuals or Planned Maintenance System that addressed such a situation. Probably because nothing like it had happened before, and it was probably assumed that fuses would pop before the load shedding circuits would activate.
Hi i am a retired Chief Engineer.
During a recent class I was taking on Dual fuel Electronic Engines for a batch of Engineer's, of course the hot topic of discussion was the Dali accident.
Some interesting theories were exchanged...
Given to understand that the ship has 4 Aux Diesel Engines besides ( Turbo Generator not sure ) and the Emergency Generator.
Outcome of discussion :-
1) Were the ship's Engineer's changing over fuel illegally to HFO after departure port, even though they were still in ECA zone. (Was the Alternate cheaper fuel tainted or had water ), because there was no problem for the 1st hour of running.
2) If the D/Gs were getting overloaded, what happened to the standby Generator ( remember they had 4 big diesel generators, besides the emergency gene).
3) Didn't they try to do load shedding by shutting down reefer containers, until they cleared the restricted channel, assuming bow thrusters were not in use, since they are ineffective above 3 knots and the ship was doing 8 knots.
4) I have been to Baltimore many times and once you are into Chesapeake bay, you have a bit more room to spare, having said that the story of Everforward lurks in the background....
5)If they were having excess steam pressure and were unable to dump the steam, they could be trying to hook the Turbo generator(provided they had one) onto the bus bar and possibly made a mess.
6)Also another point to note at 8 knots forward speed trying to kick the Main Engine Astern requires Braking Air continuously and would not be possible in the short time of 1min between the two blackouts......hence the thick black smoke of unburnt fuel.
Emergency gene kicking in won't give that much smoke it's a tiny little Engine.
Which leaves the only option available of steering gear....
No1 steering motor is usually hooked to MSB, while No.2 steering motor is supplied via the ESB (powered by Emergency gene) and in turn routes via MSB..... therefore at least one of them (Switch boards) should have been operational....so what happened, at 8 knots vsl speed if helm inputs were given, which the pilots said they did.(Since at least 1 steering motor is running from whichever switch board).8 knots being sufficient for steering, the class agreed that it was enough to get a slight change in angle...but from the video the ship veers to the right, instead of left.
Can we have some educated guesses.
Hope this clarifies certain technical details, would be happy to assist on further technical queries.
Wow, much appreciated info here, thank you!!!😊😊😊
Good point about the fuel.
Rags...I hit many of these points on my timeline video, but thanks for clarifying and adding some more.
My big question for the the NTSB to ask the Pilot and Master...DID YOU LOSE STEERING? and WHAT CAUSED THE POWER FAILURES?
Next time use the actual names, not the acronyms for us non sailors.
Is it possible, that maybe after the blackouts, maybe the bow came out of the channel enough to get into the mud and that caused the stern to come around to port?
Charts show the edges of the channel to be 30’+-
My job this weekend was to CRAWL under one of these engines in drydock and weld down all the engine supports that have cracked over time. Thank God that safety has changed so much since when I began. I'm 65 years old .. back then, you went under the engine and the Boss gave a couple of fire extinguishers to some kids and told them if the welder yells fire .. blast the bottom of the engine ... now a day ... ALL flammable liquids are removed, top of double bottom is pressure washed, gas free certificates issued before hot work can commence, fire watch with 2 way radio, full fire suppression all set up beside him. He has been trained and certified on how to be a fire watch ... so if THIS is how far we have come just to weld under an engine, just THINK of the back-up systems, redundancy systems setup so that a ship's engine runs when it should.
There are countless reasons why this ship lost it's power ... bad luck, incompetence, corruption, revenge, honest mistake, lack of communication, miscommunication, too bad that the guy at the bottom of the ladder is the guy that will take the fall .... they will blame the OILER for leaning on a valve that emptied the day tank of diesel fuel.
I wish I knew the age of the ship and if it was old, has it been in for it's half life refit, where everything that needs changing, gets changed and NEW components get installed, new safety components included.
Ship was built in 2015.
It’s not even 10 years old
@@smokindomain It's still a POS with a troubled history.
Black Swan special.
Tyron, I have not been under a ship engine for years but I do remember the sludge and stench from unwashed bilge, and that was when you could flush the crap over board. As for welding at 65 good on you but I think you should rethink your priorities swap duties with fire watch and leave welding bearers to the young ones. Ships condition. It is owned by a responsible company and looking at the records is in good order with no major defects. I think to take out the main board they either had an SCADA (supervisory control and data acquisition) glitch. and or 6.3 kV protection fault from the bow thruster taking a the Main board out and power surge with possible loss of sync then taking out the General and Critical service boards. As you know and Sal mentioned there are several Gen Sets on the board so the common denominator is a issue with SCADA, very complex systems. Keep your stick long Tyron.
Hello, I am a nurse from Germany and have nothing to do with ships, insurance, bridge collisions or pipelines - how you explain the complex relationships with subtle humor is fascinating Thanks for that and I watch your videos more often than I would like
As a specialty insurance broker, you did a good job explaining the insurance situation. This is the worst case scenario in a pooled risk program since other shipping lines are sharing in that limit. Also, did you know that Lloyd's of London and the whole insurance industry got their start with ocean marine insurance?
I really appreciated the explanation of admiralty law and maritime insurance. Your mention of “$2-3B” in the headlines is probably as deep as most journalists will actually look into, and assume that all of that money will be headed to Baltimore. Because we have so few real journalists anymore. None of them will think about the losses seen by the other parties that are less visible. Thanks again.
Amazing very nice ❤❤ so Bountiful ❣️❣️❣️❣️ love you
If chubb is going after pie insurance, and biden says he is alocating 60 million$ of our money " taxes ". He needs to tell the american people that. God Damn it, if he would explain things a little bit more, more people might get on board with his plans. Now with that being said, most peoplè need to look into where thier news is comming from too.
Hey babe, I'm learning about marine insurance."
"Who From?"
"Some guy in a Hawaiian shirt" 😂😂
Only thing you need to know, whatever happens US taxpayers pay.
Until a few months ago, I lived 5 minutes from the Key Bridge. It was one of my favorite bridges and this whole thing is heartbreaking for the lives lost and the local community. I truly appreciate all of the information you share. I never knew I wanted to to know so much about the shipping industry but this channel is a wealth of valuable information.
I live about 10 minutes from it.
@@kimberlyritenour9489 such a tragic event. I still can’t believe it.
Glad we got you to unpack all this for us. Thank you!
Been watching Sal on several network news and other channels.
He is simply the most knowledgable and articulate person around.
To add to your video, the ship looks like it's a Triple EEE ship in case you are looking for drawings. The main engine is probably a MAN B&W engine straight 14 engine that is directly coupled to the propeller. If they lost power, this could happen from their power management system or generator load sharing system. This is the most likely thing. They probably were maneuvering out of the harbor and when they were done with the bow thruster and let go of the navigation tugs and they started to reduce the load from the generators (s) because they are sailing instead of maneuvering. If they secured a generator and oops..wrong generator, this would create a blackout. The main engine does run on computer controls and if the blackout happened, this could cause the loss of propulsion and they are no longer in logistical control. As soon as they are in emergency mode and the lights are back on, the pilot asks for crash astern, BUT.....the engine is directly coupled to the propeller. When doing crash astern, the engine is started on compressed air and it cannot start until the engine hits 0 rpm forward or at least super dead slow until the engine gets down to about 5 or 6 rpm. Then the engine can fire over into reverse. That's where the plume of black smoke came out but it is just too late. The ship needs a mile or two to reverse course. I have been present for "crash astern" tests on MARAD vessels and it is a hair raising event. It's like taking the car and jamming it from drive to reverse. It isn't pretty. And those foreign flag vessels do not necessarily perform astern tests like that in order to keep from things breaking apart. Hope this helps. Where we should focus on was the Port of Baltimore not addressing the issue of protecting bridges. Let us not forget a close call with the Oakland Bay Bridge where the ship skinned to pylon. It could have been much worse. When the Francis Scott Bridge was built, the ships were 500 feet long and break bulkers. Now we are dealing Panamax 1000 foot long super vessels. Just like the Suez Canal, we are stretching the abilities of these facilities. The infrastructure needs to upgrade. Thank goodness this happened at 01:30 instead of 13:30.
The Wikipedia page has the exact model of the engine. IIRC, that was an MAN 9G90ME-C9. So, it's a straight 9 cylinder engine with a bore of 90 cm and a stroke of over 300 cm (I only found the data for the current version of the engine, which has 326 cm). Look for MAN energy, go to marine, then the downloads section and grab the Marine Engine Programme. 🙂
This is not a triple-e class vessel firstly, triple-e is a company specific name of class, however, the company who uses this specific name, uses it on a vessel class of about 398m in lenght and 60m width, the Dali is about 300m and 40 (if I recall..) it is a lot smaller, if ya wanna use... that specific companies classing names, the Dali is closer to the size of the edinburugh class.. but still smaller.. mayby closer to an m-class
My, oh, my! I see how complicated insurance is for those in business on the high seas. Just wow! Thanks for my education. I depend on you!
I'm just an interested layperson, finding your description of each possible step in the insurance claims fascinating. I've not viewed your channel before and want to congratulate you on your excellent presentation. Well done.
Lot's of channels with a lot of speculation.
You are one of the few I trust.
Thanks
Safe and effective.stand 6 feet apart.wear a mask.
I appreciate that!
The less you understand a subject, the more it looks like a conspiracy@@evinwhiteson4902
@@evinwhiteson4902You forgot the rest of the steps:
3) Post unrelated bs in the comments.
4) ????
5) Profit!!!
I have a bridge in my front yard and I support this page!
Lol
Subscribe and Like!
😂😎
😢 I have no bridge in my front yard 😢
@@BBD40Bridge envy is not pretty.
Are you selling it?
Thank you for the regular updates, glad your channel came up on my feed. Love the way you explain a complex situation so I can understand what's happening . The only channel to go to for up to date easy to understand info on this disaster. It's great though that you recommend other channels as well to watch.❤ 👍
I am a follower of Ward Carol, and saw he was doing a show on the MV Dali, kept popping up on my feed but I get my shipping info from Sal. I waited days and I decided to see what he had to say, Bless my heart the 1st thing I saw was Sal. eased my mind for watching. Thanks for giving info that is not available anywhere else.
Yeah Ward is great but for ships Sal is the way to go
Should be running one of the few media conglomerates. Anyone who can make shipping-insurance interesting is in-line for a promotion.
Juan Browne sent me over here, and your discussion on the layers of insurance was fascinating to a retired P&C auto adjuster/arbitrator.
This is an amazing breakdown. Thank you so much for posting such informative content. This has become one of my favorite channels on this entire platform!
Thank you so much for your channel! My son is a USMMA graduate and is gone 8 or more months a year. Glad there is someone who talks the maritime language on TH-cam!
To give some context to the time it will take for all the claims to work their way thru the court systems.
My wife was a young lawyer in 2002 when the Webber Falls Oklahoma I 40 bridge collapse d. She is retiring in June 2024 and there are still court cases that are pending at her Law Firm.
Dont expect this to be a fast process!
you're the only channel im watching for news on this. so many people don't know what they are talking about.
Just found this series while watching some videos on the Key Bridge incident and this channel was mentioned. Thanks for making them. They are very informative and delivered well. Keep up the good work.
Thanks for enlightening some of us that don't have the slightest clue of how things go about in this type of situation ! It's great watching your videos, can't wait for the next one ! Thanks again !
I did not find this episode boring at all. When the collision happened, I was wondering how the insurance would work for this. Hopefully you can get a maritime lawyer to interview on your channel. I would be particulary interested in any interesting quirks due to historical precedents.
I believe the ones that will pay already paid the ultimate price.
Rest in peace construction crew.
Started watching you when the Titan submersible incident happened, you had the best unbias facts and I continue to watch all of your videos after that point. You played a huge role in inspiring my interest in maritime events
As a non maritime person i found the explanation of the current situation was first class. Clearly a complicated subject but fascinating non the less. Thank you and look forward to more videos.
I live 100 miles inland.
My job has nothing to do with logistics or shipping.
But I love this channel.
Everything you buy or use involves Logistics and shipping. Things don't magically arrive at a supermarket or Amazon.
@@WALTERBROADDUSWhat about the teeth the tooth fairy brings me?
@@MarcosElMalo2 🧚♀️ She imported them from Chile....
@@MarcosElMalo2Tooth fairies take teeth away. They do not bring them.
I've been waiting for your video and ignoring everything else in the meantime. You ARE the man when TSHTF, and I thank you for your expertise. Keep them coming.
Wow, thanks
Another Fedboi. How many TH-cam accounts do you Feds have?
The ship hit the fan...
I recently discovered this channel and I have to say thank you. Learning how marine insurance works is fascinating. I appreciate your enlightening content.
Your analogy of the ownership structure to the holiday Amazon driver made that snap sharply into focus, thank you!
And suing the Uber passenger!
I am laughing from Baltimore as you discuss the limits on liability for lost cargo. I am sending you much love from Baltimore and thank you for the excellent coverage and knowledgeable explanations. Additional kudos for recommending other experts ❤❤❤❤ Those laws stem from the shipping laws of the 1600 & 1700s, the owners of the ships did not want to be responsible for the human cargo lost in the voyage. If a ship full of cargo, supplies and people was sunk the owner didn't want to be held responsible. I was born and raised in Baltimore with an avid love of how things were created.
I've followed this channel since Ever Given. Thanks for explaining everything so that a landlubber like me can understand, no frills just facts. Thanks Sal.
This is by far the best explanation I have found of the financial aspects of this incident. Great Job..
Love the thumbnail! This guy has a NATURAL talent for all things shipping news! I strive to be as learned in a field of study as he someday.
Anyone with the guts to talk about Marine Insurance gets a vote of confidence from me!! Bravo and Thank you, Sir!
Still recovering from the last baba man deb video, I see. Me too [hic].
Thanks for all your work on this and the uploads, keeping an eye on things. I'm glad YT led me to your channel, you're covering quite a lot we never get on the news here in Germany.
What a great explanation of a very complex topic. Thanks Sal!
New viewer, got here via Ward Carroll's channel. Exceptionally clear explaination of what is to come in the next several weeks. What I have learned in my lifetime is that the only industry with zero risk is the insurance industry. Trying to deal with an insurance company is like trying to pet a cobra on the head.
more and better information here in 26 minutes , than hours of reading and watching news. Liked , subscribed, and I clicked the bell.
Enjoyed your interview with Ward, look forward to hearing more of your content
Fascinating. As always, sue the truck owner who has the most insurance.
Your explanation of the delivery driver was spot on.
You've made my Sunday talking about "Marine Insurance" 🙂. love your channel btw
You mean "Maritime Cabal Insurance".
That type of complictaed insurance structure is going to take years, and I mean a lot of years to all finally unwind in court and arbitration
@@MikeBarbarossashould be adjusted for inflation about 10% per year. In that case it would be done in a week
One thing the investigators need to be looking at is the syncronization & electrical distribution of power from the AC generators.
The Dali has 2 main generators, 2 aux generators. Each generator makes 3 phases of AC power, the generators are going to run in parallel.; this means they feeding the electrical bus at the same time.
To do this, the generators need to be syncronized so they are in phase, AC cycles in a Sine wave so each generator makes 3 separate lines of AC power that are offset by 120 degrees. (360/3 = 120). So with 2 generators, making 3 lines of AC power each... YOU must syncronize the AC power so that the Generators are in the same phase at the same time. Failing to do this can damage equipment or the generators; to avoid this, systems are designed to drop generators off the line to prevent bringing an out of phase generator on the line.
However, what is likely to be going on... the Dali is getting underway and is away from the pier. They are now done with their bow thruster, a huge consumer of electricity. So they are likely dropping a generator off of the bus; in that they bow thruster is no longer needed. So while getting away at the pier, I think they were running 2 mains & one Aux Gen. I suspect, they were going to drop one main generator off the line; so it is in how the power is brought together is where I would be looking if I were the investigator assigned to this case.
The achilles heel of shipboard power systems is in the main bus / syncronization of power sources. These systems are often designed to fail to an off line state if the parameters to syncronize are not met. If they were taking a main genrator off line, leaving an 1 Aux & 1 Main, it is possible removing a generator off the bus altered the syncronization of the generators this then results in kicking all of the generators off the line. You are now a floating 100,000 ton black hole moving at 8 knots towards a critical infrasctructure bridge in the port of Baltimore.
Generators are not complex machines & marine diesel engines are remarkably reliable; it is in the merge of the electrical power from multiple power sources & the distribution of that power to mulitple shipboard systems that this process becomes complex.
So investigators need to be looking at the shipboard power distrubution system of the MV Dali. It is less likely to be contaminated fuel or a mechanical fault of the generator.
Just my $0.02 of thoughts...
John Hall
USMMA 95
3/m, QMED
LT, USCG Marine Casualty Investigator
And I suppose it's too expensive to layout the electrical system to break into islands and shed non-critical loads when generators de-synchronize or drop? That's very different from how say a new C-130 sets up it's AC busses. On the C-130 there are 4 AC load busses that can hook to a primary generator, or get cross-connected to an adjacent buss. The generators never run in parallel. Further, all flight critical loads run on a 5th 28Vdc battery backed power buss that can pull power from any of the AC busses.
@@martylawson1638 As an aviator & mariner... I am inline with your thinking. I suspect it is more a situation where this was not thought to be a problem. The essential systems to support a ship; fuel, lube & control systems to the main engine; Navigation & steering systems. I think that as systems become more complex it is easy to overlook that which is essential to safe operation of a vessel. The root of this event is the failure to recognize the full impact of total electrical system failure on a large merchant vessel navigating an essential navigable waterway of the United States.
I don't think so, at this speed they just needed steering to get out, and 1 generator should be enough for that.
Removing a generator from the bus does no such thing. UNLESS the electrical load is beyond what the online generators can supply.
We operate a 10MW datacentre, and I've never once fucked up syncro, but I have caused blackouts by shedding a generator to soon, frequency squats as a result and generators are disconnected for safety.
Senior Electro Mechanical Engineer 30 plus years and counting
This comment should be a blog post so that it can be searched and archived.
Thank you.
I love a good education piece about a topic I have so little knowledge about. Can't say where I'll use this knowledge, but it gives great context for everything that's going on. Thanks for keeping that education component to your channel! 😊
Well put Sal. Some people were having a hard time getting their heads round limited liability last week. You have made the basics quite clear. Thanks.
My previous job entailed berthing Handimax size ships without tugs at our little port. This really hits home how precarious the whole process was and still is. Very thankful to our marine pilots that took the time to explain all the processes that were involved. Even more grateful for going out on the line boat one night to witness the entire process. We always made sure we had a clear route of escape if things went wrong with loss of propulsion /steerage.
Thank you for your coverage Sal.
Thanks for the maritime law and insurance overview. You have spoken about maritime law and insurance before so I knew this was going to be a complex issue to cover this incident. It's going to take a while for all that to get sorted out. And if the gas line was damaged... add another entity to the mix. Lots of money going lots of places.
Very good video Sal, great to get sensible coverage on the issues.
What a great, fun informative channel. I live near Baltimore and have learned so much this week about the industry.
Thank you for explaining to everyone who's actually paying for the bridge. Saw too many angry comments from people thinking the taxpayers were going to pay out of pocket for the rebuild.
Youre assuming our government is competent enough to recover the full amount, or really any amount.
@@IndependenceCityMotoring He just explained that the bridge was insured. An insurance company is doing all the work.
Maybe because the vegetable in the WH said ON DAY ONE WE WOULD.
Trust me, we'll still pay for it in the end with higher shipping costs due to higher insurance costs. Nearly everything around you was carried by ship and/or truck, and the last thing we needed was a disaster to raise prices for shipping adding to the already out of control inflation.
Hey Sal, and everyone, Jason from Alaska here, I love watching his videos, FINALLY a real expert on shipping and ship systems..............I was getting sick and tired of all the Google marine experts who pop up all of a sudden when something like this happens
Ak snow bird here
@@warrior4ever731 right on, Anchorage here...
Thank you Sam for the straight forward information. I've migrated to your channel after several great episodes with Ward "Mooch" Carroll. You guys are a great team!
Concise, accurate and extremely well explained. Thanks again for the explanation.
I learned everything I know about shipping from Sal. Been here since Evergiven, and it's still fascinating.
Au contraire, Prof.Sal - the arcana of marine insurance is fascinating. Goes back to the ancient Phœnicians ~1400 BCE, & the Athenians ~400 BCE. The laws of Bottomry came in with Genoa.
Thx for explaining how much more complicated this mess is in our present litigious age.
Addendum: Thanks for clarifying about Chubb pursuing the costs of the bridge: a lot of folks got their knickers in a twist over Biden's stepping up for the immediate needs of getting the Port functional asap. Faux outrage over the Àmerican taxpayer footing the bill. They ain't, in the end, but effective in fanning political indignation.. Clarification greatly appreciated. 👍🏼
Thankful that I found your website I did subscribe to it. I travel key bridge all the time and I feel that you will give us the honest updates on what’s going on. one of the neighbors who lives on my sister Street is one who is still in their truck down there under that debris he was one of the workers on the bridge. God have mercy. God bless the workers who’s trying to get this out of the channel, and pray that the bodies will be recovered so the family can have closure🙏
So glad I found this channel BEFORE this happened! I would be scrambling for better news on it. All we keep hearing otherwise is "we definitely know it wasn't an attack even though we don't know what it was" (suspicious) OR "there were two minutes of data missing, suspicious!" (mis-stated, I think).
I love your coverage of this incident!! I’m in logistics particularly on the rail side, but you’ve given me insight to marine logistics that I didn’t have before.
Sal: You're the best! Your channel is the first place I turn to for maritime news and events. I am so sick and tired of all the so-called experts who rush in with false and misleading info, and the news media is even worse. Keep up the great work.
This is a fantastic explanation of the nuts, bolts, nickles and dimes of how this disaster is getting addressed!
Great and clear explanation of the arcane world of maritime law and insurance. Many thx
Sal, don’t forget that the main engine requires lots of ancillary equipment that is electrically driven for operation. If you think of that main engine similar to a steam plant it has fuel supply pumps, jacket water cooling pumps, raw water circulating pumps, scavenging blower for maneuvering speed operation, etc. when the lights go out all that equipment for the main engine goes out too. Depending on the electrical protection for each of those pieces of ancillary equipment (low voltage protection vs low voltage release) will dictate if the equipment restarts automatically or manually. The 4 years I was at school they were fighting with a heavy fuel oil generator that was having trouble paralleling with the SSTG’s. The diesel generator uses electric fuel supply pumps and any hiccup in the electrical system would kick off those pumps offline and the engine would go down. During the conversion those pumps were fed power from an added on sub panel, which was not tied to the emergency board. Because we could not recover the aux heavy fuel oil generator from the emergency board the ship had to constantly have a SSTG running at rated speed even if it wasn’t online. Over time the issue was worked out and the cause of the electrical hiccups were found and fixed and the fuel supply pumps were rewired to the emergency switchboard so that the engine could be recovered from the emergency board and that generator could carry the entire ship at 50% load, which made recovery of the steam plant easier having full electrical power. A cold plant startup was one of the qualifications we had to pass for senior cruise. The limitations of what equipment can operate on the emergency generator to recover the plant really tied a hand behind your back with power management to accomplish everything that needed to happen. Kinda long winded, but explains it.
SSTG? Superheated Steam Turbine Generator?
Listen again, the point is that these ships have multiple parallel generators to make sure the ship doesn't lose power (electricity).
Sounds more like an issue with the ship control system to me. Supervisory Control and Data Acquisition (SCADA) is the technical term apparently.
Might be a big, or faulty update, although I wouldn't exclude a hack/sabotage, don't forget that the US are more or less at war with many countries, and with some "friends" that are even worse than their enemies...
@@tjampman ship service turbo (turbine) generator
Thanks for a complete rundown of the real deal in the engine room.
I find it hard to believe that the complete ship could just be shut down.
Without a lot of planning...
That would leave trace evidence.
Funny...
I wonder what else happened...
During this event.
Probably the who ..
got our rights revoked or something
This channel has the most informative comments
Sal. You have NOTHING to apologize for. Thanks for being THE BEST info source on this area of interest. I know you're a teacher's heart. It is a labor of love. Semper Paratus !
He can apologise for that part of the video where he's showing a drawing of a generic engine room. He keeps pointing out areas that he's referring to BUT ISN'T USING A POINTER TO POINT TO THEM.
Amazing Video! Thanks for the in depth explanations in all of your vids as of late.
Honestly, you could teach me anything. Absolutely brilliant educator.
Superb coverage, and the insurance tutorial is well done and much appreciated. Please keep us updated on developments with respect to insurance. Thank you.
I was on a ship on a bridge tour talking to one of the officers and he mentioned that during their acceptance testing (?) that when they did the full reverse test at speed they lost main power from their engines (note plural) due to an unexpected frequency drop. This of course is on a fully diesel / electric architecture which is different than this situation. The officer said that it was a stressful situation and some control systems code had to be changed to fix it.
Also, it was just after the first storm that this ship had encountered (35 ft waves, not much of a storm) and reading the bridge log it stated that they had to reduce speed due to “Pounding”.
35 ft waves are not trivial at full speed.
@@elbuggo
Been in bigger and longer storms, so it was just relative. I crossed the North Atlantic in a OCEAN LINER and 35 ft was the average wave height and the ship kept to schedule for almost two weeks. It was the 50ft wave that hurt. And yes, the predominant cruise ship today has issues with 35 ft waves and will “pound” and has to slow down.
Great Stuff and well done sir. Brings back memories, of when I first learned about Maritime insurance. It was 1988, at the Sheraton Hotel in Bahrain. I had drinks with a rep. From Lloyds. I was a naval officer just off the ship conducting Ernest Will missions. He taught me most of what I know.
Very informative 👏. Learned stuff that I didn't know was a thing. Respect from Jamaica 🇯🇲
*Baltimore, Born & Raised for 29 years... This shit still does NOT feel real to me. I have crossed the Key Bridge countless times.... This time last year I was driving over the Key Bridge 2-4 times a day for work, which was Amazon. When this incident happened, I immediately went to the top of a large hill in my neighborhood to look out over to the Key Bridge itself... I got some decent videos and pictures, if you would like them Sal, just let me know and I'll send them to the email.*
*Thank you fort his great coverage... Being only 3 miles from the Bridge and seeing it gone is just unreal... I never thought that I would see Sal covering anything in my area.... Its shame it has to be something bad. The last videos Sal did have got over 2 MILLION VIEWS. Sal deserves it. Very happy that I have found this channel.*
Are you impacted by the "accident" in your daily life yet?
Unrelated to your comment, but how do I comment on bold like that?
@@thebyrd220 just put a * in front of your starting word, then again at the end of the message as well. *If you hit enter and start a new paragraph, you have too put the stars again.*
Kind of like 9-11 the towers just gone.
Sal your channel is the only one i trust.
On this.
Great Breakdown of this Disaster/ Stated watching your Posts since this Disaster and am Hooked.
Thanks for the sensible and knowledgeable information Sal.
You sir are fantastic & I’m thrilled you’re able to make $ doing this. Keep up the great work, I always click when I see Sal!
When you say Dali we need to take a drink also i live up here great coverage Sal prayers for the lives lost and safe removal of the wreckage This hit home being i am 10 minutes away from it
Sal, I found your channel before the MV Dali event. Your reporting is great, timely and very informative! And you have the greatest shirts ever! Only you can make ship insurance interesting 😊
So good! Thank you for all the information.
Hi, very good explanation of insurance. I used to work (retired ) for a large chemical company, and attended a process safety class where insurance was explained. The company self insured up to $XX Million, then 3rd party insured up to $XXX million, then anything above that the company is on the hook for the remainder. These numbers are at least 20 years old, but regardless this makes sense, as the company just pays out up to a certain level and has insurance pay to the next and it’s all based on risk/likelihood. In this situation with the Dali, if the power outage occidental 10 minutes later, this is a non-event. Companies, set up insurance barriers based on worst case scenarios. You video does a great job of explaining this system. Keep up the great work of informing the general public.
That’s sort of like a $XX Million deductible?
Great reporting on this channel. Learning a lot about shipping here.
Thank you SO much for providing a calm, knowledgeable voice! I have a couple logs to throw on the fire.
1. The absolute lesson to take away from this is that we have plenty of bridges that were built when 50KT was a big cargo ship and when nobody was providing protection against allision. Many of them are non-redundant steel trusses like Key, and watching the entire structure vanish in seconds should spur people to action. We need to stir up some concern, then do a survey of the endangered bridges. Lots of them are on rivers (e.g., Huey P. Long at NOLA)
2. There are lots of people sounding off about the watches the Navy sets for entering/leaving port, blithely ignorant of the number of available watchstanders on a merchant ship.
3. I've heard at least two videos that make a point that the puff of heavy black smoke after the first power loss extends sharply to starboard, therefore the wind was blowing hard and must have moved the ship. They don't notice that the smoke is stationary against the lights of Seagirt and Dundalk, and the ship is moving with respect to the stationary smoke. The water is like glass, suggesting near calm. I found some NOAA wind dope for the time of the crash, and will email it to you.
I've never been so excited to learn about marine insurance. Thanks Sal! Keep up the good work!
MV Dali is a Singapore-registered container ship owned by Grace Ocean Pte Ltd. As of March 2024, the vessel was chartered by Maersk and operated by Synergy Marine Group. Good luck getting any of them to do anything but point fingers.
god damn you are a thorough investigator/presenter. Thanks bubba!
I love your channel. I have a history in the Great Lakes Martime industry as an engineer and I find your explanations are entertaining and excellent. Thank you!
Very high information value of the who-will-pay aspect, thanks. Ship traffic is very large and the shipping industry really has a co-operative working attitude.
Thanks! Nice seeing you on Nova.