I had to do temple recommend interviews when I was a missionary at 20. I was the branch president and had no more training than the manual and a pep talk from my mission president. I had no idea what to do when people had actual concerns or problems.
And I bet if someone had asked you at first back then to explain how linear godhood was different than polytheism you probably wouldn't have known what to say or how to say it without blowing your entire chance to get that person into the church or back into the church.
The garments is so funny. Before receiving the endowment, one of my close family members told me that I should be wearing the garments without underwear, and if I wanted to wear a bra, I should wear it over the garment. Essentially saying that the garment has to touch your skin. I answered with a very resounding "No.". And she said well, it's up to you. In the temple however, the woman helping me told me "you wear them however you like". I asked "I would like to wear my normal underwear underneath the garment, is that okay?" and she said "there are no rules surround that, you can do what you like". My family member was in the room and she was absolutely flabbergasted. She said something to the affect of "well that's not what I was told" and the temple helper said something to the effect of "well that's what we're saying now". It was very funny to me at the time 😂 I also read on reddit that an ex mormon guy was still wearing his garments to work because everyone looks just above the knee for the garment line.
I have traveled for work and shared hotel rooms (chastely of course!) with faithful mormon women. I knew nothing about garments and was stunned to see bras over them, this is a real thing. I didn't mean to be staring or anything, we were good friends and comfortable enough to undress in the same room. I really had to control myself not to laugh or ask questions, I didn't want to shame or offend them. Maybe I wasn't even supposed to see the garments? Is that something you have to confess to in interviews?
@@JC-vq2cs I can see why you'd want to laugh, it is a bit of a funny sight! No "outsider" (a person who isn't endowed) should ever see your garments, that's what I was taught at the temple :) and it was taught to me as highly inappropriate to even let other endowed Mormons see your garments.
Yes I was told the garment had to touch skin and wore my bra over it. The only time I didn't was when breastfeeding, and I was wearing nursing bras. I was also told (years later)that it was personal preference, and I preferred to wear the bra over so that if I wore a thinner shirt you couldn't see the symbols. I'm just glad I don't wear them anymore
Yeah I saw that John Dehlin interview as well! You are a very well spoken young man who chooses to question his inherited beleifs. I admire that, but I may push back a little.
You are right that some members go to the bishop for every possible clarification. Others avoid bishops at all costs. Likewise, there are some bishops who micro-manage, others who are big-picture. There's bishop roulette and member roulette
A certain degree of that is inevitable, though given the pastoral care Bishops are expected to provide, you would hope they would be trained in some way to level the field somewhat.
@@NEMOTHEMORMON none of them are "trained" that's the most hilarious thing I've ever heard. Trained in being a moron? How exactly does one accomplish that, with a brick to their head? As that seems to be all that they want by actively encouraging breaking all the commandments.
My bishop decided that because I could no longer sustain the leaders of the church, I must leave. I was given 90 days to leave as I worked for the church.
It's obviously not a church then. It's a financial scheme, Wikileaks release the document that outlines their business model. They're preying of peoples belief in what's right to benefit themselves not caring for what destruction it causes.
Sustain doesn't mean you agree with the leaders, it means that you support them to lead the church as: Prophets = Profess or teach about Christ Seer = That they can see things in their imagination after reading or studying things out in their mind as Joseph Smith explains. (Just like every other person can) Revelator = Give people information that they have imagined in their mind (Like everyone else can) When Joseph Smith is talking about if you feel it is right then you will have a burning in heart and that's how you will know it is true. Not that it is historically true, but that it's true in the sense that you feel it helps you become a better person and the stories can in rich your life. See you just didn't understand the question
Garment checking! Its not just for dating. My gentile spouse noted long ago what he calls the mormon work handshake (pre-pandemic) - we live deep in mormon country. Men would shake his hand while putting their other hand on his shoulder and sort of grasping/massaging it a little. He thought it was super weird. Then eventually he realized people who weren't sure of his membership status were checking for garments. And of course members can ask for special favors or give favors to each other. Or not. Wondering if anyone else has noticed this?
Assuming the motives of others without asking causes misunderstandings to arise and can lead to fault finding, murmuring and feelings of unforgiveness and resentment which are not good to have and i see plenty of that in here on the internet.. As you cannot read the thoughts and motives of others by looking only on the outward apperances of other people's actions without asking them.. So it sounds like your partner just jumped to his own conclusions in looking only on the outward apperance without asking the guy personally to know why he did that....
I live in where there are not as many Mormons, so I have not experienced this in work places, but I have experienced it when being greeted by church authorities, including one of the apostles when I spoke to him after a stake fireside. He did it in a very obvious manner. At the time I was in process to get my recommend so I did not yet have garments and he definitely double checked to be sure he was right ( I did not have garments on) then his facial expression clearly transformed from a friendly smile to utter disapproval.
@@DannyAGray This is because God will not compromise his standards and this is why the Church Leaders won't allow compromise unless the prophet is commanded by God to make changes. So any changes has to come down from God through the prophet.
The redundancy of having to get he Temple Recommend renewed every two years with the barcode or “activity scan” keeping track of every garment purchase or temple visit is relentless in my opinion! Reminds me of the song, “Do What Is Right...let the consequence follow... it’s exhausting to be a Mormon!
It is exhausting Imagine those big corp bosses sits on headquarters telling you what to do the Job of keeping the corporation/business alive and busting.
Many thanks for this additional "play"! People really need to be reminded REGULARLY of what this business is and what to WATCH FOR and how to WATCH OUT to keep from getting stuck to the fly-trap strip. Good guest with EXCELLENT explication, too. 🐦 [Nemo, you are such a (lovely!) wee lad here. 🌈 How much effluence has gushed and swirled under the bridge in only one year!! But you stand simply and sturdy - unruffled, undeterred, uncompromising. 🌬️🌬️🌬️ GOOD MAN.]
I would love to hear your thoughts on how the black and white thinking that is taught in Mormonism combined with the recommend questions and implied "worthiness" of having a recommend can lead to narcissistic behaviors and traits. In particular covert or venerable narcissism where the individual, not able to compartmentalize as suggested in the video, forces them to see others as the cause of any failings. For example, a black and white thinking person who has "impure thoughts" leading to "impure actions" are unable to perceive themselves as worthy if they acknowledge that those thoughts and feelings come from themselves so they must place the blame for their thoughts and actions on another person. This is seen in the teachings that it is women's fault for being immodest etc.
I don’t think the tithing question in and of itself is a problem. The problem lies with the fact there is no clear definition on what is considered a full tithe. Is it paid on ‘your increase’? Meaning after all your other financial obligations have been met. On your net income or on your gross income? Should I round it up, round it down, or to the penny? Do you pay on retirement/social security/disability? Some recent conference talks even say to pay your tithing before feeding your family. Depending on who you ask, the answer is always different. Or they turn it back on you and say ‘What do you think you should be paying?’ Or ‘How many blessings do you want?’ They will take any and all money and then the individual is left wondering if their ‘fire insurance’ is sufficient or not. Just another worry to add on top of all the other worries and responsibilities (prayer, scripture study, family home evening, meetings, church attendance, church calling, ministering, family history, etc, etc), and feel like they are falling short. When all they should be worried about is being kind, helping others, and giving back. End rant.
The ‘ do you have any financial obligations’ questions was added I believe due to the number of men who after they were divorced became deadbeat dads... or in other words refused to pay child support or alimony when they were ordered to as part of the divorce proceeding. In those cases like with my mother who had just a high school education and couldn’t work due to illness we became dependent financially at times to the church welfare system. Basically the question is to make sure men are supporting their families and obligations vs casting them to the wind after a relationship ends or a new family is started.
I was wondering when this was added. To me it speaks to the legacy of polygamy - multiple wives and children to support. Also maybe eternal sealings? Even if men divorce, aren't they sealed for eternity unless explicitly unsealed? (back to polygamy here). But that is just speculation on my part.
I knew this question was there to call out dead beat dads, but I never thought about the effect of dead beat dads creating a drain on the church from a welfare angle. That's a good point ... if a little cynical. If the church has to support a guy's ex and her kids that will off set the value of his tithing, perhaps completely. We can't have that can we? It's best if he pays for the ex and the kids (don't look at us, the judge said he has to pay, we are just "following up") and then pays the 10% to us as well. Yeah that's the ticket. ... and we get to look just a teeny-weeny bit feminist into the bargain. Its all upside 😉
The final question, for me was the most anxiety producing. Because I would answer "yes" to everything, and that, I thought should have been enough. But then they'd say, "Do YOU think you are worthy to attend?" and I'd always think , "Am I missing something? Am I worthy? Gee! I don't know. If all of that other stuff wasn't enough, then I don't know WHAT to do!" And I am sure I had more than one bishop tell me that the final question was the most important one. So what the heck!!?
Ex-LDS here. My theory on this is I think they ask that final question to elicit any potential random guilt we may have over something perhaps not directly covered in the other temple recommend questions so we'll have one last opportunity to spill the beans.
I've pointed out that there is only one way everyone should honestly answer the last question. Everyone should say "no, I fall short of keeping the commandments perfectly."
I was told that attending other churches or being supportive of a non-mormons faith was " contrary to the church teachings" This totally depends on who is interviewing you.
Hi, new to your channel, regarding tithing I contribute to a lot of charities, but have paid tithing, saw it for the up keep of the building, electric etc. Non Mormon churches usually pass a plate around to help with the up keep. So it helped me to pay a tithe. But, things have changed and haven’t been for a few weeks, as I developed a shelf.
The representative of the Pneumanosophy Academy was a fresh and refreshing confirmation of the prideful, vacuous and feckless faith I rightly abandoned years ago by doing what he is unwilling to do: I asked God the Eternal Father my questions, and I believed Him when He answered me.
In early 2018 I attended a mother-daughter young women activity. In one of the rotating classes, the male speaker started off by speaking about a vacation trip where he had to pay to enter and view an exquisite building in the form of a ticket. Blah Blah Blah. "You don't have to pay money to enter into the temple." Being that I was freshly out of the church, though not officially out, that statement triggered me so hard. My husband and I and so many others were denied a temple recommend due to not being full tithe payers. After a few months of being considered 'full tithe payers,' we were able to receive our temple recommend. A member DOES have to pay monetary money to enter the temple. Remember, the temple recommend interview questions are from God, who is the head of the church, through the prophet. So why does God care about money being paid to his church more than he cares about those who believe in him being allowed into the one place they can receive further light and knowledge, eternal blessings, and enter into more covenants with him?
@@hazelwalker6570 ha ha ha. I chose to resign. Send the resignation letter to the church membership records department, got the letter back that I'm officially no longer on the role of the Mormon church. I've been far better off since doing so.
@@hazelwalker6570 Thank you very much. If the bible was not a fictional book, the description of Jesus's values, I feel I have been living far more than I ever was when I was an active and believing Mormon member.
@@Hanleia1 the church creates a calling for everyone in order to keep everyone so busy they don’t have time to even think about what is actually doctrine. And have the gall to forbid us from asking questions without being in danger of excommunication! Free at last, free at last, thank god almighty, I’m free at last!
46:08 Tithing is fire insurance. Everybody knows that. And aren’t we all proud to have contributed to that magnificent City Creek Mall? And the purchase of gigantic cattle ranches in Florida? And tv stations? And the building of great and spacious empty temples? And really wise investments? Warms my heart.
The financial one is related to people that pay alimony and child support from a previous marriage. Basically you can’t have a temple recommend if you’re not paying child support when legal obligated to.
I’m not sure how the Church could verify such a thing. It’s not like they’re a civil court or policing organization. Only if the member voluntarily discloses such information.
@@losttribe3001 - the spouse not receiving the child support tells their church about it. I assume to put pressure on the spouse not paying the child support. At least that’s how it’s currently happening in my extended family.
But the way it is supposed to be is that the members are to govern themselves. So it shouldn't matter what a spouse says and you shouldn't have to show proof.
I showed my temple recommend to my non member husband and laugh out loud. He said “is that what you get for paying 10% of your income?” He thought the temple recommend is something fancy 😂
At 59:46 your are talking about purchasing the garments. It is my understanding that you can buy them without a recommend as long as you have been endowed and have not been excommunicated.
Insightful and quality content. Definitely made me reflect back sitting through these interviews. In regards to the ‘financial obligation’ question, I think it has to do with the welfare program. If child support is not being paid, the church may be financially helping the women/children and I’m sure they don’t want to be helping long-term. I feel the reason women are placed in this situation is because education is not valued for women in the church. Unless there is a louder, opposing voice in her life saying education is important, women are conditioned to think it’s optional and not as important as raising children and being a full-time mom. That is rarely the case though because the church is the loudest voice in all aspects of life. Once again the church creates a problem and doesn’t want to be held accountable.
On purchasing garments: due to Covid lock down, temples were closed, and my temple recommend had expired without my paying attention, and needing fresh garments, I logged onto the lds site and was informed I needed to check my recommend as it was expired. I asked another Sister about this, and she said this was indeed happening and lots of people were in same boat, no biggie, just get recommend renewed and Bob's your uncle.
we were told not to have anyone see our Garments or even talk about them to anyone, not even our family members who were not members or those who hadn’t been to the temple, because they were Sacred and very special. I even had to wear pajamas in summer times so my siblings wouldn’t see my garments. I even had to wash them myself because I was the first person in my family to go to the Temple and on a Mission. My church leaders even told me I was as special as Nephi. lol I always felt so much pressure to be Perfect and in my heart I always felt so unworthy 😢 and guilty for everything. (Even now)
Worthiness is so overemphasized that I answered the last that as an imperfect person hiw can I or anyone consider myself worthy. Then I was told that my humility shows I am worthy.
I agree with you. The analogy of young women as a "stick of gum" that gets chewed up and thrown away if they participate in sexual activities (which are sometimes interpreted as kissing or holding hands) is extremely damaging. Even as a married woman, are we still comparable to a chewed-up piece of gum? And how does this equate with the young men? They aren't taught to "hold off chewing gum" until they are married. The burden is put on the young women.
One more thing...I believe the final question is meant to make one feel doubtful of oneself , at the end of the day, lest getting safely thru the previous questions leaves one feeling smug in any way. I always felt that being made to answer that question, could render invalid, the answers to the other questions, even if answered honestly. I always felt destabilized by that question , so never felt good about the overall experience.. It's like a mind game of some sort
Nemo, I have direct knowledge about tithing arrangements for temple recommend holders who were unable to pay, asked to give time instead of money, etc. I have this knowledge that happened for other people because I am an ASL interpreter and sit in on other member’s interviews with their bishops. I think it is highly individualized and not common. But it can happen, so tithing is not required to be money. And yes it is possible that a bishop would tell someone that they don’t have to pay tithing/money if the person is having a difficult income period of their life.
So, just trust us wherever you are in the world, and you share this message with anyone else who raises the question about the Church not being transparent. We’re as transparent as we know how to be in telling the truth. We have to do that. That’s the Lord’s way. M. Russell Ballard I only could find this one on transparancy
Thank you for sharing. It’s very interesting. There’s NO Way to easy to interviews for the temple recommend. Honest that it’s not theirs business but I don’t believe the bishopric have authority. I had bad experience with the former bishop and I confessed somehow he told someone about me. I was damn embarrassed so I left church and temple. I never trust them ever. Only god knows how I feel!
About keeping the sabbath day holy ... I always thought of my dad as being just about as hard core orthodox of a mormon as you could find. But my older siblings relate that every Sunday on the way home from church dad would stop and get icecream cones for the family. Now this was before I was born and it was a 45 min drive one way to church (this was "in the mission field" you see ... not in "Zion") and it was before the consolidated block so they were going to church twice on Sundays and at least once durring the week... but still. Sadly this family tradition ended before I came along. :(
56:32 when you talk about why they ask if you a current on your child support here is what I think it might be but I might be wrong but as a dad that has two children and have to pay child support for them my bishop made sure I was which I always do. It states in the 12th article of faith - 12 We believe in being subject to kings, presidents, rulers, and magistrates, in obeying, honoring, and sustaining the law. But if someone thinks of a better answer I would love hear feedback.
@@NEMOTHEMORMON This question was added in the 1990s when there was a lot of media publicity over men not paying child support to ex-wives or single mothers whose children they fathered and the church was not exempt from having men who weren't compliant yet were still going to the temple and appearing to be the perfect Mormon man. It is still a problem as it will always be in societies that don't forcibly take the money from the fathers. But, it was added because it was a highly publicised problem at the time. It was added at the same time as the question about treating your family members in harmony with the Lord's teachings which was in response to publicity over spousal and child abuse within families, where again abusive men were being allowed to go to the temple and it didn't look good for the church.
I realized that we all sin daily, whether people believe they’re big or small, and we call upon to the Lord to help us & overcome these. It’s always going to be. We’ll never be perfect & im not sure why anyone believes they’ll be. The Lord atoned for all of our sins. If we could actually work to become perfected…what would be the point of the atonement? I realized I’m always going to be worthy to him & loved no matter what. He died for me. And if I believe and follow him, I will gain eternal life.
When I was a minor aka teenager I didn't want my parents when I spoke to the Bishop. I was a big boy by the time I was 15 anyways unlike some people apparently
I have heard some school children at a televised church service 'we are not worthy' to receive salvation - quite ironic in the context of the last question in the temple recommend interview.
Relating to the discussion at the end about leaders who have had the 2nd anointing getting a "golden ticket' so-to-speak to the temple and never having to do recommend interviews, is this the same for the wives that have received the 2nd Anointing? Do the women also get a free pass??
Also, I was always told that being set apart to be a bishop or stake president, they would have special insight to whether one was speaking truth during interviews or not. I remember being so scared because essentially the church leaders were now mind readers.
It’s surprising a lot of people. Recommend renewal is coming up soon, but my standing in the church is very much one of heterodoxy, so we’ll see how it goes! I’m hoping there is room for people like me who want to challenge the norm and explore things, as well as openly acknowledge the issues!
55:20 The whole coffee thing is one of the least strange things in Mormonism coming from a Catholic background with fasts and the like, the major difference is of course in Mormonism it’s an always prohibition vs a sometimes thing more akin to pork in Judaism I guess.
It feels super Super awkward and just pathetic. Youth where not to bad as I always had a parent and you can brush over most the questions. Like you said on Mormon stories, once you see behind the Curtin it just all seams very silly and pointless.
@@kenny-gee and I concur, for most normal, good people - like the majority of TBMs seem to be - being on the other side of the table as the interviewer and judge must be painful and uncomfortable, too. It is harmful to both participants IMO. You must have had to deal with putting people in the position of super over sharing all the time. Not healthy.
And it sets up the conditions for abuse of power among those who are more sociopathic or domineering or toxic to act very badly and cause even more harm.
I like how (I forgot his name, sorry) pushes back on the tithing question. This is a complex issue. I understand how most disbeleiverers don"t want to pay the church (whichever church we are talking about) money. If you don't beleive in the institution, then why would you pay it? But if you do beleive in the institution and want to receive its gym and community for free, then paying tithing is like paying your YMCA membership. You don't have to be a member, but if you want to be a member then you should pay their required fee. As far as giving money to a church so that you can be saved, this is an incredibly tricky theological concept. Many founders of religion, including Joseph Smith, have denounced practices by let's say the catholic church for taking money to absolve people of sin, "buying your way into heaven," and the temple endowment play, created by Joseph Smith reflects his disdain of paid clergy, according to his views... but... being required to pay the mandatory 10% is necessary for salvation, if you beleive in this group. So right there it comes down to whether you beleive in the group or not. Most of the questions are framed with that overall question in mind. If you don't beleive in it then you wouldn't pay them money, but if you do beleive in it, tithing is like your YMCA gym membership. That's my take on it anyway.
Elder Ballard said. “Just trust us, wherever you are in the world, and you share this message with anyone else who raises the question about the Church not being transparent. We’re as transparent as we know how to be in telling the truth. We have to do that; that’s the Lord’s way.” www.churchofjesuschrist.org/church/news/apostles-answer-questions-about-standards-doubts-during-ysa-face-to-face?lang=eng I really like how he caveats being transparent, stating that they are transparent when telling the truth which would indicate that they are not transparent when they are not telling the truth...so in the end he is just saying sometimes we are transparent and tell the truth and other times we are not telling the truth so we are not transparent. Duh.
In America red meat is not included in WOW. The church even raises beef on ranches and distributes it to members in need. WOW in the USA is no coffee, no ( black ) tea. ( herbal is allowed now ), no tobacco, and no illegal drugs. I do know that there are places in the world where the church allows coffee because it is such a big cultural thing in that nation that prohibiting it would fully hinder membership and church growth.
Pot gives me a warm fuzzy feeling inside... does that mean I should just get lit every day all day?... I think not... following that warm fuzzy feeling as a guide can lead you into so very dark places if you aren't careful to realize just how messed up things are getting. Logical thinking, common sense, and honesty go so much further than blindly following emotions and commands from bad leadership and subtle brainwashing.
What does the Trinitarian gentleman Pneumanosophy Academy think of Eliohim god being the father of Jehovah god ? They believe that Jehovah is Jesus but they only pray to Eliohim who has a consort called Heavenly Mother.
it is found in Ephesians of the bible in Chapter 3:14 of Paul the Apostle kneeling on both knees and is praying to Elohim in the name of Jesus.. Paul talks to God the Father in the name of Jesus. He dosen't pray to Jesus. That's why the Latter-day Saints don't pray to Jesus but pray to God the Father instead in the name of Jesus Christ. Amen. So the way the Saints pray to God is indeed biblical.
@@germanslice prayer to the Father is fine. Prayer to Jesus is fine. At his martyrdom Stephen prayed to Jesus and the last verse of Revelation is a prayer to Jesus. In John 14 14 Jesus says we can ask him I e pray to him.
What Jesus is saying is that we are all sinners before God and we can only be saved by the Grace of God, not by any outward works of self righteousness. That’s the biggest difference between Mormonism and Christianity.
Attending your meetings is all inclusive ( Sacrament, Sunday School, relief society or priesthood, all meetings relative to your callings, firesides and ward/ stake activities and even single adult / YSA meetings and activities if you are single. I even had a bishop insist I must gi to Single Adult dances and activities immediately upon the finalization of my divorce and he had widows immediately attend them after burying thier husband. Nit the best thing for them psychologically.
I can guarantee that if a Mormon had a stake every day for dinner, their Bishop would slap them on the back and say "when are you inviting me round?". But if that same Mormon were to drink a cup of coffee, the same bishop would have a "little chat" with him about following the word of wisdom. The understanding of the meat rule has NEVER made any sense to me. Especially since it's probably one of the more sensible ones int erms of your health and protecting the environment etc. etc. They really need to either smack down on it like they do with tea and coffee, or remove it completely.
Girls and women are not to masturbate either and I have had bishops question me specifically regarding if I do / don't or ever have. It is most uncomfortable to discuss with a man no matter your age or answer. It is inexcusable to put young girls in this position.
In order to reach the highest degree of the celestial kingdom, you must have a plural marriage.... Brigham Young Journal of Discourse Volume 11 page 268-9.
No, if greed is a sin, then how can that be so? This "church" just uses it as an excuse to break up families & destroy lives to suite their wicked purpose. It curses it's followers to hell by taking life & stealing from children, with no regards for what's right.
@@DannyAGray Truth is truth no matter what the cult leaders of today try and dismiss the prophets of yesteryear. Brother Brigham wasn’t the only prophet to say that multiple wives is the only way to become a God.
@@DannyAGray The bigger picture here is that none of the them are/were prophets. You nor anyone else is going to become a God no matter how many wives you marry....
@@DannyAGray I am not worried nor am I persecuting anyone. You responded to my post. Am I not allowed to respond yours? You can end this anytime you wish by no longer replying to my posts and or you can believe that pilgrims live on the 🌙 and that people live on the 🌞 because that is what your prophets say....
I thought they would ex-communicate any that publicly speaks out. im still in the church. Why do you stay? Im confused u have a recommendation to the temple. But don't seem not believe. I came to the page when being lesbian led me to look into the church. And in working on resigning. U confuse me. I hold respect for the church and you just want to know more about u. Sorry if this is a little bold.
After years and years of mental anguish over interviews because of my "self-regulatory" habits, I finally realized that I just had to say "yes" to the last question and that's all that really matters. Then I realized that if I can consider myself worthy then what's the point of the interview?
Nemo, you are wrong about needing a recommend to get more garments, you only need your membership number, which is looked up to verify that you were endowed. We were told told by leadership to NEVER take off our g's unless showing or having sex, and to IMMEDIATELY put them back on when done. Different days... old timers would take baths with one arm looped through their g's.
It is not true that in order to renew a temple recommend you have to pass the test. I know many Mormons that attend church, pay tithing and abuse others, don’t support or pay child support, lie in divorce court,do not pay their divorce settlement money. I know a grandfather ( not mine) who has a recommend, attends temple ceremonies, and could care less about certain grandchildren. So, I believe that the recommend questions are a bunch of bologna. I now do not pay tithing or attend church.
When I was a member I got asked the "purity" question. I was masturbating constantly but I thought that was between me and "Heavenly Father" so I always answered no. So much for the bishop's connection to God. Any trained psychologist probably would have known I was lying.
No. in the church if you are going to go to the temple that has to be repented of first before you can go in just like with other sins that are required to be forsaken before you can enter in . A thing like that can take months to repent of depending on how long its been going on for..
The tithing issue in recommend interviews is basically purchasing priesthood ordinances (purchasing salvation). And the temple explicitly says "don't sell this info".
I don’t like the idea that we’re grilled like a little kid about if we do this or don’t we do this, really none of their business, and you shouldn’t have to be a full tithe payer to go if you want to.
I think the child support question is about polygamy. Like not acknowledging children and supporting them and their mothers because they are born to polygamous marriages.
On the child or spousal support it is because the Church doesn't want to have to support your family it is your self-reliance as a God in embryo. You cannot be a god unless you provide like a future god would.
We are under the law, there is a difference between the law James and Paul were speaking of aka the Law of Moses and the law of Christ and the law of Christ does include the law of chastity, fornicators and adulterers and homosexuals will not enter into the kingdom of God, Paul said so, same guy who says we are not under the law
You get NOTHING in join-up lessons nor, thereafter, even in so-called "temple-prep classes" to cause you to ask more pointed questions than you already have. (Guess the big clue should be that however specific, direct, sincere those questions were, you never got a direct or honest reply.)
The whole temple recommend interview is soooo manipulative! Especially as a youth, but even as an adult it is all about control and the power dynamic. Here you are, sitting one on one with a man you’ve been conditioned to believe is inspired and has the power of god to know if you are telling the truth. He then asks you leading questions and holds not only your own eternal salvation in his hands, but the possibility of spending eternity with god and your family! And all of it depends on your loyalty, dependence, deference, service and unquestioning obedience to the corporation! Coercion takes many forms. It’s not always a gun to the head. These types of interviews are very coercive.
Unbiblical? Ungodly? You can find some of these temple standards in Isaiah Chapter 33:14-15. First Isaiah tells us heaven is all full of everlasting burnings and devouring fire so its not just only an LDS Teaching for its found also in Isaiah., (Isaiah is your bishop talking to the latter-day saints in Zion those who sin willfully who are unworthy to enter the temple). Isaiah tells us exactly what these worried latter-day saints in Zion (Zion's trangressors) are all thinking. What the the sinners in Zion need to understand is when they clear up their unresolved sins with the proper church authorities and go through the process of repentance with their bishops then they will be allowed go into the temple. But when people don't obey the rules and lie in their recommends and try to enter into the temple unworthily, don't blame us if they fall into trouble with their faith or testimony because they didn't do what the Lord had commanded.
Do you mean she was asked this as a married woman/your wife? Did you get asked the same questions?? How creepy and shaming. I hope you are both doing OK. Can you report this kind of behavior? That bishop should be disciplined and removed. Why is it only people who question truth claims who end up in disciplinary councils?
I was a investigater I had baptizing questions I walked out ...such personal invasive questions I knew to get out now never been back
I had to do temple recommend interviews when I was a missionary at 20. I was the branch president and had no more training than the manual and a pep talk from my mission president. I had no idea what to do when people had actual concerns or problems.
And I bet if someone had asked you at first back then to explain how linear godhood was different than polytheism you probably wouldn't have known what to say or how to say it without blowing your entire chance to get that person into the church or back into the church.
Yikes!
Saw it LIVE. Great collaboration!
Thanks!!!
The garments is so funny.
Before receiving the endowment, one of my close family members told me that I should be wearing the garments without underwear, and if I wanted to wear a bra, I should wear it over the garment. Essentially saying that the garment has to touch your skin.
I answered with a very resounding "No.". And she said well, it's up to you.
In the temple however, the woman helping me told me "you wear them however you like". I asked "I would like to wear my normal underwear underneath the garment, is that okay?" and she said "there are no rules surround that, you can do what you like".
My family member was in the room and she was absolutely flabbergasted. She said something to the affect of "well that's not what I was told" and the temple helper said something to the effect of "well that's what we're saying now".
It was very funny to me at the time 😂
I also read on reddit that an ex mormon guy was still wearing his garments to work because everyone looks just above the knee for the garment line.
Cheers for sharing that! It's amazing how things change!
@@NEMOTHEMORMON yeah, it's strange isn't it, that a temple recommend question for me, means something very different to someone else!
I have traveled for work and shared hotel rooms (chastely of course!) with faithful mormon women. I knew nothing about garments and was stunned to see bras over them, this is a real thing. I didn't mean to be staring or anything, we were good friends and comfortable enough to undress in the same room. I really had to control myself not to laugh or ask questions, I didn't want to shame or offend them. Maybe I wasn't even supposed to see the garments? Is that something you have to confess to in interviews?
@@JC-vq2cs
I can see why you'd want to laugh, it is a bit of a funny sight!
No "outsider" (a person who isn't endowed) should ever see your garments, that's what I was taught at the temple :) and it was taught to me as highly inappropriate to even let other endowed Mormons see your garments.
Yes I was told the garment had to touch skin and wore my bra over it. The only time I didn't was when breastfeeding, and I was wearing nursing bras.
I was also told (years later)that it was personal preference, and I preferred to wear the bra over so that if I wore a thinner shirt you couldn't see the symbols.
I'm just glad I don't wear them anymore
Yay! Two of my new favorites on one video!!!! You guys are Brilliant!
Wow, thank you!
Great episode. Hope that there will be more of these in the future. Also, I was excited to see you on the Mormon Stories Podcast!
Thanks! I hope so too, Lewis is a top man!
Yeah I saw that John Dehlin interview as well! You are a very well spoken young man who chooses to question his inherited beleifs. I admire that, but I may push back a little.
You are right that some members go to the bishop for every possible clarification. Others avoid bishops at all costs. Likewise, there are some bishops who micro-manage, others who are big-picture. There's bishop roulette and member roulette
A certain degree of that is inevitable, though given the pastoral care Bishops are expected to provide, you would hope they would be trained in some way to level the field somewhat.
@@NEMOTHEMORMON none of them are "trained" that's the most hilarious thing I've ever heard. Trained in being a moron? How exactly does one accomplish that, with a brick to their head? As that seems to be all that they want by actively encouraging breaking all the commandments.
My bishop decided that because I could no longer sustain the leaders of the church, I must leave. I was given 90 days to leave as I worked for the church.
How dare you disagree with someone?!
It's obviously not a church then. It's a financial scheme, Wikileaks release the document that outlines their business model. They're preying of peoples belief in what's right to benefit themselves not caring for what destruction it causes.
@@kulpritblk1578 would be great for a good hacker group to get into their data and release all their private records!
@@shawnbradford2243 there's still fundamental issues with it's core belief system, you gotta can the whole thing.
Sustain doesn't mean you agree with the leaders, it means that you support them to lead the church as:
Prophets = Profess or teach about Christ
Seer = That they can see things in their imagination after reading or studying things out in their mind as Joseph Smith explains. (Just like every other person can)
Revelator = Give people information that they have imagined in their mind (Like everyone else can)
When Joseph Smith is talking about if you feel it is right then you will have a burning in heart and that's how you will know it is true. Not that it is historically true, but that it's true in the sense that you feel it helps you become a better person and the stories can in rich your life. See you just didn't understand the question
It was great to see a collaboration with you two!
Thanks, cheers for watching!
Garment checking! Its not just for dating. My gentile spouse noted long ago what he calls the mormon work handshake (pre-pandemic) - we live deep in mormon country. Men would shake his hand while putting their other hand on his shoulder and sort of grasping/massaging it a little. He thought it was super weird. Then eventually he realized people who weren't sure of his membership status were checking for garments. And of course members can ask for special favors or give favors to each other. Or not. Wondering if anyone else has noticed this?
Assuming the motives of others without asking causes misunderstandings to arise and can lead to fault finding, murmuring and feelings of unforgiveness and resentment which are not good to have and i see plenty of that in here on the internet.. As you cannot read the thoughts and motives of others by looking only on the outward apperances of other people's actions without asking them.. So it sounds like your partner just jumped to his own conclusions in looking only on the outward apperance without asking the guy personally to know why he did that....
I live in where there are not as many Mormons, so I have not experienced this in work places, but I have experienced it when being greeted by church authorities, including one of the apostles when I spoke to him after a stake fireside. He did it in a very obvious manner. At the time I was in process to get my recommend so I did not yet have garments and he definitely double checked to be sure he was right ( I did not have garments on) then his facial expression clearly transformed from a friendly smile to utter disapproval.
@@DannyAGray This is because God will not compromise his standards and this is why the Church Leaders won't allow compromise unless the prophet is commanded by God to make changes. So any changes has to come down from God through the prophet.
Brilliant!
The redundancy of having to get he Temple Recommend renewed every two years with the barcode or “activity scan” keeping track of every garment purchase or temple visit is relentless in my opinion! Reminds me of the song, “Do What Is Right...let the consequence follow... it’s exhausting to be a Mormon!
It is exhausting Imagine those big corp bosses sits on headquarters telling you what to do the Job of keeping the corporation/business alive and busting.
Good assessment by two clear-thinking people. I want to see more of these. Consider doing comparison-contrast assessments between various religions.
Cheers!!
Many thanks for this additional "play"!
People really need to be reminded REGULARLY of what this business is and what to WATCH FOR and how to WATCH OUT to keep from getting stuck to the fly-trap strip.
Good guest with EXCELLENT explication, too. 🐦
[Nemo, you are such a (lovely!)
wee lad here. 🌈 How much effluence has gushed and swirled under the bridge in only one year!!
But you stand simply and
sturdy -
unruffled, undeterred,
uncompromising.
🌬️🌬️🌬️
GOOD MAN.]
@@sheliabryant3997 It's nice to see two non Christian gay people bonding.
Louis (Lewis) is the most clear thinking and articulate person I have ever encountered in any context. How I respect him!
I would love to hear your thoughts on how the black and white thinking that is taught in Mormonism combined with the recommend questions and implied "worthiness" of having a recommend can lead to narcissistic behaviors and traits. In particular covert or venerable narcissism where the individual, not able to compartmentalize as suggested in the video, forces them to see others as the cause of any failings. For example, a black and white thinking person who has "impure thoughts" leading to "impure actions" are unable to perceive themselves as worthy if they acknowledge that those thoughts and feelings come from themselves so they must place the blame for their thoughts and actions on another person. This is seen in the teachings that it is women's fault for being immodest etc.
Your a stud Nemo, thank you for your effort and knowledge
I don’t think the tithing question in and of itself is a problem. The problem lies with the fact there is no clear definition on what is considered a full tithe. Is it paid on ‘your increase’? Meaning after all your other financial obligations have been met. On your net income or on your gross income? Should I round it up, round it down, or to the penny? Do you pay on retirement/social security/disability? Some recent conference talks even say to pay your tithing before feeding your family.
Depending on who you ask, the answer is always different. Or they turn it back on you and say ‘What do you think you should be paying?’ Or ‘How many blessings do you want?’ They will take any and all money and then the individual is left wondering if their ‘fire insurance’ is sufficient or not. Just another worry to add on top of all the other worries and responsibilities (prayer, scripture study, family home evening, meetings, church attendance, church calling, ministering, family history, etc, etc), and feel like they are falling short. When all they should be worried about is being kind, helping others, and giving back. End rant.
Cheers for sharing!
Good discussion. I have my biggest quarrel with the Word of Wisdom question for the reasons y'all discussed.
Cheers!
The ‘ do you have any financial obligations’ questions was added I believe due to the number of men who after they were divorced became deadbeat dads... or in other words refused to pay child support or alimony when they were ordered to as part of the divorce proceeding. In those cases like with my mother who had just a high school education and couldn’t work due to illness we became dependent financially at times to the church welfare system. Basically the question is to make sure men are supporting their families and obligations vs casting them to the wind after a relationship ends or a new family is started.
Thanks for the insight!
I was wondering when this was added. To me it speaks to the legacy of polygamy - multiple wives and children to support. Also maybe eternal sealings? Even if men divorce, aren't they sealed for eternity unless explicitly unsealed? (back to polygamy here). But that is just speculation on my part.
I knew this question was there to call out dead beat dads, but I never thought about the effect of dead beat dads creating a drain on the church from a welfare angle. That's a good point ... if a little cynical.
If the church has to support a guy's ex and her kids that will off set the value of his tithing, perhaps completely. We can't have that can we? It's best if he pays for the ex and the kids (don't look at us, the judge said he has to pay, we are just "following up") and then pays the 10% to us as well. Yeah that's the ticket. ... and we get to look just a teeny-weeny bit feminist into the bargain. Its all upside 😉
The final question, for me was the most anxiety producing. Because I would answer "yes" to everything, and that, I thought should have been enough. But then they'd say, "Do YOU think you are worthy to attend?" and I'd always think , "Am I missing something? Am I worthy? Gee! I don't know. If all of that other stuff wasn't enough, then I don't know WHAT to do!" And I am sure I had more than one bishop tell me that the final question was the most important one. So what the heck!!?
Ex-LDS here. My theory on this is I think they ask that final question to elicit any potential random guilt we may have over something perhaps not directly covered in the other temple recommend questions so we'll have one last opportunity to spill the beans.
I've pointed out that there is only one way everyone should honestly answer the last question. Everyone should say "no, I fall short of keeping the commandments perfectly."
A yes answer shows honesty and humility.
I was told that attending other churches or being supportive of a non-mormons faith was " contrary to the church teachings" This totally depends on who is interviewing you.
Hi, new to your channel, regarding tithing I contribute to a lot of charities, but have paid tithing, saw it for the up keep of the building, electric etc. Non Mormon churches usually pass a plate around to help with the up keep. So it helped me to pay a tithe.
But, things have changed and haven’t been for a few weeks, as I developed a shelf.
The representative of the Pneumanosophy Academy was a fresh and refreshing confirmation of the prideful, vacuous and feckless faith I rightly abandoned years ago by doing what he is unwilling to do: I asked God the Eternal Father my questions, and I believed Him when He answered me.
In early 2018 I attended a mother-daughter young women activity. In one of the rotating classes, the male speaker started off by speaking about a vacation trip where he had to pay to enter and view an exquisite building in the form of a ticket. Blah Blah Blah. "You don't have to pay money to enter into the temple." Being that I was freshly out of the church, though not officially out, that statement triggered me so hard. My husband and I and so many others were denied a temple recommend due to not being full tithe payers. After a few months of being considered 'full tithe payers,' we were able to receive our temple recommend. A member DOES have to pay monetary money to enter the temple.
Remember, the temple recommend interview questions are from God, who is the head of the church, through the prophet. So why does God care about money being paid to his church more than he cares about those who believe in him being allowed into the one place they can receive further light and knowledge, eternal blessings, and enter into more covenants with him?
Nemo , I cannot understand why you are still a member and not been excommunicated
@@hazelwalker6570 ha ha ha. I chose to resign. Send the resignation letter to the church membership records department, got the letter back that I'm officially no longer on the role of the Mormon church. I've been far better off since doing so.
@@Hanleia1 congratulations!
@@hazelwalker6570 Thank you very much. If the bible was not a fictional book, the description of Jesus's values, I feel I have been living far more than I ever was when I was an active and believing Mormon member.
@@Hanleia1 the church creates a calling for everyone in order to keep everyone so busy they don’t have time to even think about what is actually doctrine. And have the gall to forbid us from asking questions without being in danger of excommunication! Free at last, free at last, thank god almighty, I’m free at last!
46:08 Tithing is fire insurance. Everybody knows that.
And aren’t we all proud to have contributed to that magnificent City Creek Mall? And the purchase of gigantic cattle ranches in Florida? And tv stations? And the building of great and spacious empty temples? And really wise investments? Warms my heart.
The financial one is related to people that pay alimony and child support from a previous marriage. Basically you can’t have a temple recommend if you’re not paying child support when legal obligated to.
I’m not sure how the Church could verify such a thing. It’s not like they’re a civil court or policing organization. Only if the member voluntarily discloses such information.
@@losttribe3001 - the spouse not receiving the child support tells their church about it. I assume to put pressure on the spouse not paying the child support. At least that’s how it’s currently happening in my extended family.
But the way it is supposed to be is that the members are to govern themselves. So it shouldn't matter what a spouse says and you shouldn't have to show proof.
Yes you can get a recommend and not pay support or alimony. As long as you attend church and pay tithing.
I showed my temple recommend to my non member husband and laugh out loud. He said “is that what you get for paying 10% of your income?”
He thought the temple recommend is something fancy 😂
Brilliant!!
At 59:46 your are talking about purchasing the garments. It is my understanding that you can buy them without a recommend as long as you have been endowed and have not been excommunicated.
Insightful and quality content. Definitely made me reflect back sitting through these interviews. In regards to the ‘financial obligation’ question, I think it has to do with the welfare program. If child support is not being paid, the church may be financially helping the women/children and I’m sure they don’t want to be helping long-term.
I feel the reason women are placed in this situation is because education is not valued for women in the church. Unless there is a louder, opposing voice in her life saying education is important, women are conditioned to think it’s optional and not as important as raising children and being a full-time mom. That is rarely the case though because the church is the loudest voice in all aspects of life. Once again the church creates a problem and doesn’t want to be held accountable.
Thank you for you kind words and feedback, and for sharing your insight!
On purchasing garments: due to Covid lock down, temples were closed, and my temple recommend had expired without my paying attention, and needing fresh garments, I logged onto the lds site and was informed I needed to check my recommend as it was expired. I asked another Sister about this, and she said this was indeed happening and lots of people were in same boat, no biggie, just get recommend renewed and Bob's your uncle.
we were told not to have anyone see our Garments or even talk about them to anyone, not even our family members who were not members or those who hadn’t been to the temple, because they were Sacred and very special. I even had to wear pajamas in summer times so my siblings wouldn’t see my garments. I even had to wash them myself because I was the first person in my family to go to the Temple and on a Mission. My church leaders even told me I was as special as Nephi. lol I always felt so much pressure to be Perfect and in my heart I always felt so unworthy 😢 and guilty for everything. (Even now)
Worthiness is so overemphasized that I answered the last that as an imperfect person hiw can I or anyone consider myself worthy. Then I was told that my humility shows I am worthy.
I agree with you. The analogy of young women as a "stick of gum" that gets chewed up and thrown away if they participate in sexual activities (which are sometimes interpreted as kissing or holding hands) is extremely damaging. Even as a married woman, are we still comparable to a chewed-up piece of gum? And how does this equate with the young men? They aren't taught to "hold off chewing gum" until they are married. The burden is put on the young women.
One more thing...I believe the final question is meant to make one feel doubtful of oneself , at the end of the day, lest getting safely thru the previous questions leaves one feeling smug in any way. I always felt that being made to answer that question, could render invalid, the answers to the other questions, even if answered honestly. I always felt destabilized by that question , so never felt good about the overall experience.. It's like a mind game of some sort
Nemo, I have direct knowledge about tithing arrangements for temple recommend holders who were unable to pay, asked to give time instead of money, etc. I have this knowledge that happened for other people because I am an ASL interpreter and sit in on other member’s interviews with their bishops. I think it is highly individualized and not common. But it can happen, so tithing is not required to be money. And yes it is possible that a bishop would tell someone that they don’t have to pay tithing/money if the person is having a difficult income period of their life.
Fascinating! Thanks for sharing this with me!
Tithing used to be paid with food or animals in the 1800's.
So, just trust us wherever you are in the world, and you share this message with anyone else who raises the question about the Church not being transparent. We’re as transparent as we know how to be in telling the truth. We have to do that. That’s the Lord’s way.
M. Russell Ballard
I only could find this one on transparancy
That's the one I was thinking of, thanks for sharing!
Thank you for sharing. It’s very interesting. There’s NO Way to easy to interviews for the temple recommend. Honest that it’s not theirs business but I don’t believe the bishopric have authority. I had bad experience with the former bishop and I confessed somehow he told someone about me. I was damn embarrassed so I left church and temple. I never trust them ever. Only god knows how I feel!
About keeping the sabbath day holy ... I always thought of my dad as being just about as hard core orthodox of a mormon as you could find. But my older siblings relate that every Sunday on the way home from church dad would stop and get icecream cones for the family.
Now this was before I was born and it was a 45 min drive one way to church (this was "in the mission field" you see ... not in "Zion") and it was before the consolidated block so they were going to church twice on Sundays and at least once durring the week... but still.
Sadly this family tradition ended before I came along. :(
56:32 when you talk about why they ask if you a current on your child support here is what I think it might be but I might be wrong but as a dad that has two children and have to pay child support for them my bishop made sure I was which I always do. It states in the 12th article of faith
-
12 We believe in being subject to kings, presidents, rulers, and magistrates, in obeying, honoring, and sustaining the law.
But if someone thinks of a better answer I would love hear feedback.
That's a good point, but then there are lots of laws that could be asked about in the interview, why specifically this one?
@@NEMOTHEMORMON This question was added in the 1990s when there was a lot of media publicity over men not paying child support to ex-wives or single mothers whose children they fathered and the church was not exempt from having men who weren't compliant yet were still going to the temple and appearing to be the perfect Mormon man. It is still a problem as it will always be in societies that don't forcibly take the money from the fathers. But, it was added because it was a highly publicised problem at the time. It was added at the same time as the question about treating your family members in harmony with the Lord's teachings which was in response to publicity over spousal and child abuse within families, where again abusive men were being allowed to go to the temple and it didn't look good for the church.
I realized that we all sin daily, whether people believe they’re big or small, and we call upon to the Lord to help us & overcome these. It’s always going to be. We’ll never be perfect & im not sure why anyone believes they’ll be. The Lord atoned for all of our sins. If we could actually work to become perfected…what would be the point of the atonement?
I realized I’m always going to be worthy to him & loved no matter what. He died for me. And if I believe and follow him, I will gain eternal life.
Nemo, how much longer will you be a member of the Church?
Why do you ask?
@@NEMOTHEMORMON Just curious. You seem to pride yourself as a member, but criticize that which you belong to.
What is pneumanosophy? tried to google it but I got a word for lung removal
Darn, I missed it! Thanks for uploading it!
No worries!
Any Minor in the Bishops office should be accompanied by their Parent!!!!
Absolutely!
When I was a minor aka teenager I didn't want my parents when I spoke to the Bishop. I was a big boy by the time I was 15 anyways unlike some people apparently
I have heard some school children at a televised church service 'we are not worthy' to receive salvation - quite ironic in the context of the last question in the temple recommend interview.
You end with the critical question: if it's between you and God, why do you need the Church and its officers?
Exactly! Why do they need to stand between me and him?
Jim, does this dress make my hips look too broad? No, Nancy, you look great. Honest response, no matter the facts.
Relating to the discussion at the end about leaders who have had the 2nd anointing getting a "golden ticket' so-to-speak to the temple and never having to do recommend interviews, is this the same for the wives that have received the 2nd Anointing? Do the women also get a free pass??
This is a very useful piece.
Glad you think so!
Also, I was always told that being set apart to be a bishop or stake president, they would have special insight to whether one was speaking truth during interviews or not. I remember being so scared because essentially the church leaders were now mind readers.
If you have a prior monetary obligation, then yes, you would not give a full 10% of your income. It is all about money, control, obedience, and money.
Whoa, the beginning surprised me with your current standing. Is there a video of your personal journey and trajectory?
It’s surprising a lot of people. Recommend renewal is coming up soon, but my standing in the church is very much one of heterodoxy, so we’ll see how it goes! I’m hoping there is room for people like me who want to challenge the norm and explore things, as well as openly acknowledge the issues!
Wow... does discipline follow a Mormon Stories episode in the UK? Like it often does elsewhere?
How did you get a temple recommend and not be excommunicated?
A magician never reveals his secrets!!!!
55:20 The whole coffee thing is one of the least strange things in Mormonism coming from a Catholic background with fasts and the like, the major difference is of course in Mormonism it’s an always prohibition vs a sometimes thing more akin to pork in Judaism I guess.
When I was on the bishopric and had to do these interviews . I could tell you there was nothing worse than putting these to a married women
I can imagine that was super uncomfortable!
It feels super Super awkward and just pathetic. Youth where not to bad as I always had a parent and you can brush over most the questions. Like you said on Mormon stories, once you see behind the Curtin it just all seams very silly and pointless.
@@kenny-gee just curious, what kind of training did you receive prior to holding these?
@@kenny-gee and I concur, for most normal, good people - like the majority of TBMs seem to be - being on the other side of the table as the interviewer and judge must be painful and uncomfortable, too. It is harmful to both participants IMO. You must have had to deal with putting people in the position of super over sharing all the time. Not healthy.
And it sets up the conditions for abuse of power among those who are more sociopathic or domineering or toxic to act very badly and cause even more harm.
Who interviews the Bishop and the Stake President?
Great question!! I'm not sure!
Nemo, do you think the church is going to come after you?
I don't know, I doubt i'm significant enough to bother with!
@@NEMOTHEMORMON You'd be surprised. You're making a name for yourself and impacting lots of people.
I like how (I forgot his name, sorry) pushes back on the tithing question. This is a complex issue. I understand how most disbeleiverers don"t want to pay the church (whichever church we are talking about) money. If you don't beleive in the institution, then why would you pay it? But if you do beleive in the institution and want to receive its gym and community for free, then paying tithing is like paying your YMCA membership. You don't have to be a member, but if you want to be a member then you should pay their required fee. As far as giving money to a church so that you can be saved, this is an incredibly tricky theological concept. Many founders of religion, including Joseph Smith, have denounced practices by let's say the catholic church for taking money to absolve people of sin, "buying your way into heaven," and the temple endowment play, created by Joseph Smith reflects his disdain of paid clergy, according to his views... but... being required to pay the mandatory 10% is necessary for salvation, if you beleive in this group. So right there it comes down to whether you beleive in the group or not. Most of the questions are framed with that overall question in mind. If you don't beleive in it then you wouldn't pay them money, but if you do beleive in it, tithing is like your YMCA gym membership. That's my take on it anyway.
Cheers for the feedback and for sharing your perspective!
My stake president told me I am to answer these questions as if He ( the stake pres) is the Lord himself.
I hear that a lot!
No one said it was negative though...
Elder Ballard said. “Just trust us, wherever you are in the world, and you share this message with anyone else who raises the question about the Church not being transparent. We’re as transparent as we know how to be in telling the truth. We have to do that; that’s the Lord’s way.” www.churchofjesuschrist.org/church/news/apostles-answer-questions-about-standards-doubts-during-ysa-face-to-face?lang=eng
I really like how he caveats being transparent, stating that they are transparent when telling the truth which would indicate that they are not transparent when they are not telling the truth...so in the end he is just saying sometimes we are transparent and tell the truth and other times we are not telling the truth so we are not transparent. Duh.
Cheers!
In America red meat is not included in WOW. The church even raises beef on ranches and distributes it to members in need. WOW in the USA is no coffee, no ( black ) tea. ( herbal is allowed now ), no tobacco, and no illegal drugs. I do know that there are places in the world where the church allows coffee because it is such a big cultural thing in that nation that prohibiting it would fully hinder membership and church growth.
No Green Tea 🍵
Where in the world dose the church allow coffee?
Pot gives me a warm fuzzy feeling inside... does that mean I should just get lit every day all day?... I think not... following that warm fuzzy feeling as a guide can lead you into so very dark places if you aren't careful to realize just how messed up things are getting.
Logical thinking, common sense, and honesty go so much further than blindly following emotions and commands from bad leadership and subtle brainwashing.
The holy spirit never misleads a surrendered heart.
What does the Trinitarian gentleman Pneumanosophy Academy think of Eliohim god being the father of Jehovah god ?
They believe that Jehovah is Jesus but they only pray to Eliohim who has a consort called Heavenly Mother.
it is found in Ephesians of the bible in Chapter 3:14 of Paul the Apostle kneeling on both knees and is praying to Elohim in the name of Jesus.. Paul talks to God the Father in the name of Jesus. He dosen't pray to Jesus. That's why the Latter-day Saints don't pray to Jesus but pray to God the Father instead in the name of Jesus Christ. Amen.
So the way the Saints pray to God is indeed biblical.
@@germanslice prayer to the Father is fine. Prayer to Jesus is fine. At his martyrdom Stephen prayed to Jesus and the last verse of Revelation is a prayer to Jesus. In John 14 14 Jesus says we can ask him I e pray to him.
What Jesus is saying is that we are all sinners before God and we can only be saved by the Grace of God, not by any outward works of self righteousness. That’s the biggest difference between Mormonism and Christianity.
Attending your meetings is all inclusive ( Sacrament, Sunday School, relief society or priesthood, all meetings relative to your callings, firesides and ward/ stake activities and even single adult / YSA meetings and activities if you are single. I even had a bishop insist I must gi to Single Adult dances and activities immediately upon the finalization of my divorce and he had widows immediately attend them after burying thier husband. Nit the best thing for them psychologically.
Malachi 3:10 is a verse for Israel paying taxes under a Theocracy. Every Church in America I’ve been to is freely giving with no requirements.
The financial question is because they don't want deadbeat parents who are skipping on paying child support to be going to the temple.
I can guarantee that if a Mormon had a stake every day for dinner, their Bishop would slap them on the back and say "when are you inviting me round?". But if that same Mormon were to drink a cup of coffee, the same bishop would have a "little chat" with him about following the word of wisdom.
The understanding of the meat rule has NEVER made any sense to me. Especially since it's probably one of the more sensible ones int erms of your health and protecting the environment etc. etc. They really need to either smack down on it like they do with tea and coffee, or remove it completely.
Absolutely, the WoW has really just become, no smoking, drinking, drugs or tea and coffee. It's become prohibitive rather than prescriptive.
@@NEMOTHEMORMON yup, it's really odd, I can only imagine how confusing it must be to a convert!
The word of wisdom is not about healthy living, or any kind of reasonable outlook on life. The word of wisdom is about OBEDIENCE and nothing else.
@@mdtdbe It wasn't originally intended to be that way. It was intended as an optional health code of sorts.
Girls and women are not to masturbate either and I have had bishops question me specifically regarding if I do / don't or ever have. It is most uncomfortable to discuss with a man no matter your age or answer. It is inexcusable to put young girls in this position.
Man is as God once was is a quotation from Lorenzo Snow but he is obviously quoting doctrine taught by Joseph Smith (King Follett)
2 of my favourites
Cheers!
In order to reach the highest degree of the celestial kingdom, you must have a plural marriage....
Brigham Young Journal of Discourse Volume 11 page 268-9.
Thanks for sharing!
No, if greed is a sin, then how can that be so? This "church" just uses it as an excuse to break up families & destroy lives to suite their wicked purpose. It curses it's followers to hell by taking life & stealing from children, with no regards for what's right.
@@DannyAGray Truth is truth no matter what the cult leaders of today try and dismiss the prophets of yesteryear. Brother Brigham wasn’t the only prophet to say that multiple wives is the only way to become a God.
@@DannyAGray The bigger picture here is that none of the them are/were prophets. You nor anyone else is going to become a God no matter how many wives you marry....
@@DannyAGray I am not worried nor am I persecuting anyone.
You responded to my post. Am I not allowed to respond yours?
You can end this anytime you wish by no longer replying to my posts and or you can believe that pilgrims live on the 🌙 and that people live on the 🌞 because that is what your prophets say....
Wait ur a member and u speak against them? And challenge them?
Yeah, that's pretty much the gist of it!
I thought they would ex-communicate any that publicly speaks out. im still in the church. Why do you stay? Im confused u have a recommendation to the temple. But don't seem not believe. I came to the page when being lesbian led me to look into the church. And in working on resigning. U confuse me. I hold respect for the church and you just want to know more about u. Sorry if this is a little bold.
I think Lewis is a secret Mormon. Likely is a Undercover stake president. Undercover boss LDS
Hahahaha!
Do you actually believe in the church given all the history that completly debunks it?
They should just ask if we sustain the leaders who have received the 2nd Anointing. It seems like they are considered untouchable.
Anyone who answers "yes" is not showing humility.
After years and years of mental anguish over interviews because of my "self-regulatory" habits, I finally realized that I just had to say "yes" to the last question and that's all that really matters. Then I realized that if I can consider myself worthy then what's the point of the interview?
Dear Nemo this was 2 years ago and now they will not give you a Recomment… R U O K?
You kind of have a temple recommend interview before you get baptized.
Yeah, although less intense I would say, if you aren't a convert that is!
Nemo, you are wrong about needing a recommend to get more garments, you only need your membership number, which is looked up to verify that you were endowed. We were told told by leadership to NEVER take off our g's unless showing or having sex, and to IMMEDIATELY put them back on when done. Different days... old timers would take baths with one arm looped through their g's.
It is not true that in order to renew a temple recommend you have to pass the test. I know many Mormons that attend church, pay tithing and abuse others, don’t support or pay child support, lie in divorce court,do not pay their divorce settlement money. I know a grandfather ( not mine) who has a recommend, attends temple ceremonies, and could care less about certain grandchildren. So, I believe that the recommend questions are a bunch of bologna. I now do not pay tithing or attend church.
When I was a member I got asked the "purity" question. I was masturbating constantly but I thought that was between me and "Heavenly Father" so I always answered no. So much for the bishop's connection to God. Any trained psychologist probably would have known I was lying.
No. in the church if you are going to go to the temple that has to be repented of first before you can go in just like with other sins that are required to be forsaken before you can enter in . A thing like that can take months to repent of depending on how long its been going on for..
I have a warm fuzzy feeling, OH NO I think I've pissed my pants !
The tithing issue in recommend interviews is basically purchasing priesthood ordinances (purchasing salvation). And the temple explicitly says "don't sell this info".
I think that's one of the things that makes me uncomfortable with money being involved.
@@NEMOTHEMORMON Right? Wouldn't the church itself define that as priestcraft?
I don’t like the idea that we’re grilled like a little kid about if we do this or don’t we do this, really none of their business, and you shouldn’t have to be a full tithe payer to go if you want to.
You need your membership number and baptismal date to order garments
Excellent, cheers!
I think the child support question is about polygamy. Like not acknowledging children and supporting them and their mothers because they are born to polygamous marriages.
On the child or spousal support it is because the Church doesn't want to have to support your family it is your self-reliance as a God in embryo. You cannot be a god unless you provide like a future god would.
I would a prefer someone who wasn't theologically savvy providing a more neutral and natural response.
Duly Noted!
Jesus: Do you believe in me? 1 Question
MORMON MAFIA : Better Make Sure you answer these brainwashed indicators so that you are good to go.
The law of chastity? That is putting people under law. If you break on part of the law you have broken it all James2:10
"For whosoever shall keep the whole law, and yet offend in one point, he is guilty of all." Good point!
We are under the law, there is a difference between the law James and Paul were speaking of aka the Law of Moses and the law of Christ and the law of Christ does include the law of chastity, fornicators and adulterers and homosexuals will not enter into the kingdom of God, Paul said so, same guy who says we are not under the law
#trending
Is it?
@@NEMOTHEMORMON I want it to. ;)
You get NOTHING in join-up lessons nor, thereafter, even in so-called "temple-prep classes" to cause you to ask more pointed questions than you already have. (Guess the big clue should be that however specific, direct, sincere those questions were, you never got a direct or honest reply.)
The whole temple recommend interview is soooo manipulative! Especially as a youth, but even as an adult it is all about control and the power dynamic. Here you are, sitting one on one with a man you’ve been conditioned to believe is inspired and has the power of god to know if you are telling the truth. He then asks you leading questions and holds not only your own eternal salvation in his hands, but the possibility of spending eternity with god and your family! And all of it depends on your loyalty, dependence, deference, service and unquestioning obedience to the corporation! Coercion takes many forms. It’s not always a gun to the head. These types of interviews are very coercive.
LDS church offers anxiety and depression by promising blessings that never come. False hope narratives for your money! :)
The government makes sure you can eat
Don't put your faith in men. I wouldn't pass the Temple Recommend test ... it's unbiblical and unGodly.
Unbiblical? Ungodly? You can find some of these temple standards in Isaiah Chapter 33:14-15. First Isaiah tells us heaven is all full of everlasting burnings and devouring fire so its not just only an LDS Teaching for its found also in Isaiah., (Isaiah is your bishop talking to the latter-day saints in Zion those who sin willfully who are unworthy to enter the temple). Isaiah tells us exactly what these worried latter-day saints in Zion (Zion's trangressors) are all thinking. What the the sinners in Zion need to understand is when they clear up their unresolved sins with the proper church authorities and go through the process of repentance with their bishops then they will be allowed go into the temple. But when people don't obey the rules and lie in their recommends and try to enter into the temple unworthily, don't blame us if they fall into trouble with their faith or testimony because they didn't do what the Lord had commanded.
I saw on EBay some one selling garments.
My wife was asked in her temple interview by her bishop which sexual positions she engaged in and if she enjoyed it....
Well that would make me leave the interview immediately and leave the church!
Well, seems it's not just the youth that need to be careful with the chastity question. How disgusting!
Do you mean she was asked this as a married woman/your wife? Did you get asked the same questions?? How creepy and shaming. I hope you are both doing OK. Can you report this kind of behavior? That bishop should be disciplined and removed. Why is it only people who question truth claims who end up in disciplinary councils?
@@JC-vq2cs I was not married to her at the time.
@@tedgarrison8842 Nothing excuses that questioning IMO, did not mean to imply it would be OK if she were single. Thanks for the context.