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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 25 มิ.ย. 2024
- MinnMax's Jacob Geller, Sarah Podzorski, Kyle Hilliard, and special guest Renata Price dive into From Software's new masterpiece Elden Ring Shadow Of The Erdtree. In this first of two discussions, they talk about their opening hours with the game and trying to wrap their minds around everything new in this DLC/expansion. There aren't spoilers for the end of the game, they focus on Dancing Lion, Rellana, and some optional world bosses. They also talk about the new system for character progression, great new dungeons, and the complexity and density of Hidetaka Miyazaki's world design. A huge thank you to everybody for supporting MinnMax on Patreon and submitting your thoughts for us to read during this discussion.
You can watch and share the video version of The Deepest Dive here - • The Deepest Dive - Eld...
Check out Renata's video essay on Elden Ring - • Why We Can't Stop Mapp...
Support MinnMax on Patreon before June 28th, 2024 and we'll DM you a Steam code for the new Metroidvania Tales of Kenzera: ZAU. We have 100 codes to give out, so you're guaranteed a code until we hit 4,705 paid supporters. / minnmax
We'll be back in a month for the second and final episode of The Deepest Dive covering Elden Ring Shadow of the Erdtree, so stay tuned on Patreon for a post collecting your final thoughts on the experience. Thanks so much for watching or listening! / minnmax
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We'll DM you a Steam code for Tales of Kenzera: ZAU if you support MinnMax on Patreon before June 28th, 2024. We have 100 codes to give out, so you're guaranteed a code until we hit 4,705 paid supporters. Thank you! www.patreon.com/minnmax
I do feel somewhat switched into the lore. I would say the draping fabric over the houses and the veil in the skybox feels like it is all about hiding something. Family members hidden away, hiding shame.
Agree, layers of concealment.
The purple flower lady is ST Trina. If you die 4 times by drinking the stuff she gives you you get a dialogue
35 Vigor is crazy lol. At 35 Vig you have about 1200 HP, i rock 60 Vig and I have 1900.
Yeh 60 vigor is the plateau for hp, barely goes up if you level it up past that. Everyone should definitely have 60 vigor for this expansion and even then you will wish you had more
@@hoaaaaaaaaablefor real. I’ve got 56 vig plus some stat boosting items to bring it closer to 60 plus level 9 erdtree fragments and everything still does so much damage.
@@chadnoble2607 only other thing I would suggest is keep leveling up endurance for equip load so you can wear heavier armor and make yourself tankier. There is also a talisman in the expansion I found that increaseses your defence the heavier your equip load is, so I've been using that with the talisman that increases equip load
50 is also ok
@@hoaaaaaaaaableI thought that talisman worked off of having Heavy Load? Does it count the % of your equip load or the tier of your load?
For people worried, about 30 minutes in they get into mid game loctation spoilers. They do not stick to the first few hours
the biggest thing this DLC taught me was how insanely good boiled crab is
went from being crushed by the bosses to actually being able to take some hits
the effects of boiled frag stack really well with the scadutree blessing, since its all basically percentage damage reduction
I gotta say "Opening Hours" is far too non-descript for this discussion. If you're at all adverse to spoilers, they will discuss most areas, bosses, moments in the entire DLC.
6:58 Yeah everybody fell in love with milady. Move set is extremely fun for both one hand and two hand. each attack flow into each other gracefully. And if you pair with winged stance omg. I was committed to try different weapons but I beat entire dlc with fire milady with winged stance. I would argue that it is more fun than Rellana's dual light great sword.
They should have put their money where their mouth was and named the DLC "Scadu of the Edtree"
Surprised no one mentioned the sekiro parry hardtear you get from the 1st furnace golem
My favorite part of the DLC so far. It's super good against most of the main bosses
What's it called again lol
I haven't had many problems with anything in the DLC so far, but I went in with a high-level faith build, Sacred Relic Sword blasting every group from afar, Frenzied Burst to snipe single enemies, Ancient Dragon's Lightning Strike to nuke big bosses, enough STR for a decent shield, various faith buffs, and a Mimic equipped with rot/freeze/bleed pots and uplifting aromatics. A lot of the side dungeons still have cool gimmicks, like magical basilisk eyes that cause deathblight buildup if they see you, the jar horrors, giant spiked plates dropping on your head, etc. Exploration feels great, maybe even better than the base game, and I keep "accidentally" finding new zones.
Sacred Relic is amazing. It's my backup for when nothing else works. I recently used it vs a mausoleum boss that refused to be hit by any of my spells. It completely wrecked him. Beautiful weapon.
Double soreseals is wild, considering that at level 100 a single seal loses most of its benefits (relatively) while keeping its cost.
@MinnMax Something worth discussing that you guys (especially Jacob) touched on repeatedly but never directly said: So many things in Demon’s Souls/DS1-3/Bloodborne/Sekiro that were unpopular with the fans (Swamps like Blighttown, Mob bosses like Royal Rat Authority and Celestial Emissaries, Instakill enemies like BB’s Winter Lanterns, etc.) are in this DLC, and they’re great! They all feel like ideas Miyazaki and Friends have loved but never been able to implement in a satisfying way, so watching them pull it off is outstanding to see as a longtime fan. The Lamentor nails a mob boss in a fun and strategic way and the Winter Lanterns in the Abyss (blows my mind that they’re literally called Winter Lanterns, verbatim) are genuine stealth-mandatory challenges until you get passed them, after which you find a subtle clue to deal with them permanently. It’s so satisfying to watch FromSoft not give up on their dreams despite public backlash until they prove that their dreams were doable the whole time.
Hearing Renata pronouncing Siofra correctly was so nice to hear.
My balance comment wasn't about general difficulty. The way it's implemented makes the early game much harder for high damage low defense builds, with both your damage overly penalized and your damage taken overly increased compared to a heavy armor melee type build. It also meant that regular enemies were doing truck level hits early on, so a boss might kill me in 2 hits and a weak little guy would take 3 hits. Now that I'm at much higher scadu, the bosses can still truck me with 3 hits, but the little guys take 6. This means instead of one more hit, they have to do twice as many attacks as a boss, which feels much better balanced. Also, kudos to From on the scadu patch, because it helps fix the issue by making the ramp up faster at the start.
OMG you guys didn't realize that Mesmer's eye is a Sore seal!!
Thanks team - loved this. I understand 0% of the storyline of games like this but these convos really give me a place of understanding to start from. It makes it much more fun to tip your toes into the lore with you all!
the new recent items thing isnt on by default because menuing during combat is a thing and adding it by default would mess up everyones muscle memory
I think it still makes more sense to have it on by default, with people able to disable it in the menu if they want.
@@rsdawn22 Yeah I agree with that for sure
The other element in the putrescent knight boss arena is I am pretty sure it is exactly Darkeater Midirs boss arena
can't wait for part 2 of this deep dive!
Definitely feel the concerns over Scadutree Fragments being these discrete rewards for going in the *right* places - I really wonder if part of the issue with the amount of people cheesegrating themselves against bosses without enough Shadow Levels is that the alternative is really abstract (go elsewhere and *hopefully* get some more Fragments) vs Runes being a guarantee for basically any form of engagement. It feels like it's happening to so many people that you can't just chalk it up to "hurr durr people play the game wrong" at this point.
To me it just seems like Fromsoft fundamentally changed a core aspect of their soulsy game experience and some folks are having a tougher time adjusting. Which is fair!
But I think it beats the alternatives, which would either be scaling these guys to about the same level as every other late vanilla game boss, OR raise the level caps, more or less trivializing the main game. Skadu fragments seem like an elegant solution to me. Rewarding exploration over grinding feels very Metroidvania.
Would have liked to have seen Huber with this group
This just proves why Shadow Keep is one of my new favorite legacy dungeons from the series. Every one of them had a different experience with it whether that be entering it a certain way or ending up somewhere different after exploring it. It's incredible.
Beyond some early troubles, I really like how the scadutree fragments balance the experience relative to your level and allow such open-ended exploration of Shadow of the Erdtree. It was great to hear about the paths everyone took, especially Jacob's (which I've still yet to see in my playthrough). Also so glad Renata is on!!
The people complaining about Scadu Tree fragments are either rushing the game, or are afraid to explore, or are having their power fantasy challenged. The game wants you to feel overpowered and to succeed in the face of adversity. I am not a great player and have revisited the game after a year and a half, never having finished the original game and I am finding the difficulty level thrilling and the game is literally dumping resources on me around every corner. I don’t want this DLC to end, it is so good. When I know the location of every boss and every item the shadow lands will be a smaller place. At the moment I think they have done a great job with the scaling.
1:21:00 my favorite joke bit in the DLC is the runebear boss who drops items specifically poking fun at all the memes about runebears being the hardest generic enemies in the game.
The light greatsword moveset really is beautiful! I can't wait to play through the base game with it.
Renata was great on this! Felt almost like having Austin Walker on with all the insightful contextual knowledge.
Yeah, really loved hearing Renata's perspective on a lot of this stuff!
Maybe it’s just me, bc my base game is NG+ 1, but I get so little runes in the DLC, that it’s just playing to see everything new. It takes like 400,000 to level up, so I just play the DLC for fun and when I get to 370,000 or so I just fast travel to that group of enemies right next to Mohg elevator and get more runes than most DLC mini bosses.
1:31:17 this criticism kinda drove me insane, because uh, bosses drop runes. A lot of runes in fact. Enough runes to fully upgrade multiple weapons each time. It takes about 4 minutes to go to the roundtable and buy some stones.
you have to die 4 times to the purple flower
I fought Rellana at scadutree 12 and it was very funny. I love that the game lets you do that. Also I fought the Blackgaol Knight at level 5 and using Wave of Gold it stunlocked and killed him without him getting a single attack off. The game gives you so many options to demolish your enemies.
y'all need to get Quelaag on the next episode of the deepest dive. I need her lore rambles on minn max content it will give me life.
Very excited for y'all to see the finger subplot!! Insane revelation
I just keep my shield up at all times when I’m exploring anything other than an open field. I’ve never parried anyone in my entire life. It’s just for surprises when you go through doors or places you’ve never been.
The furnace golems ALL drop the physick tears, including one that turns the game into sekiro. So beat the golems.
One thing I didn’t like about the DLC was that there are only 50 scadutree fragments, so it’s hard to hit level 20. I like how they did the Golden Seeds. They put more than you need in the world, so you don’t have bash you head or look up a guide to find them to reach max level.
However, I just took my character to ng+ after beating the dlc. I speed ran to the dlc, only took about 30 minutes, and you keep your Blessing level in the dlc area AND all the scadutree fragments are replenished so it’s easy to max out your blessings.
Thought that was pretty cool, since I didn’t want to use my other character because I didn’t want to have to go find weapons again, and I wanted to do all the side quests I missed.
Enjoyed the show!
To be a bit pedantic about the pronunciation notes at 5:11, it is *technically* Sha-tho tree, as the d is probably meant to be an anglicization of the thorn or eth rune/letter used in Norse or Irish Gaelic, especially considering the Irish Gaelic word for Shadow is scath, pronounced shath.
I love minnmax’s deepest dive. Great episode as always. Please keep doing the deepest dive on games. Us fans love it
@KyleHilliard I'm so happy that you also struggle to remember the names of any bosses, characters or locations. I am the same way and sometimes feel embarrassed when other people can just list off all those names. Good to know I'm not alone!
Ya'll (Jacob) - it is not arbitrary to decide against using summons. I played that way for all major bosses except the final one. The reason (for me) is the boss AI since Demon's Souls just breaks down when the boss has more than 1 foe to deal with. Enemies in the dlc go from 8-10/10 difficulty to 1-5/10. It's completely warping the experience.
No judgement for people who want to use them - but there are valid reasons not to.
Well good news they are gonna update the dlc to be a bit easier, especially at the earlier blessing levels. Just as i got to about halfway...
As always with the FromSoft Games they get nerved eventually. Thats why I leave Steam in Offline Mode and dont update the game. Also bc the messages on the ground spoiler many secrets.
Y‘all should have Ellie who just guested on the main show on for the second round of this. Would be great to have someone on who‘s in the weeds with the lore as she seems to be.
This was awesome, great job!
what? did you watch on x10 speed??
So glad Ren is back!
Sarah picks up on so much in the lore and story and themes, it kind of blows my mind.
Love Sarah on the content. She adds a ton, doesn’t interrupt others, and she plays games that I’m loving (so I’m biased).
I hope fatherhood is treating you well, Ben. For me, it just keeps getting better.
Hey MinnMaxers, it says the give-away is available if you sign up before June 28. I just signed up on June 28th, did I miss out? All good either way, happy to support, but if you don’t ask you’ll never know right?
Also when I signed up the number of paid supporters was 4,643. Hopefully there weren’t 62 people who signed up, copped a code, then cancelled😬
Hey, can you email me at hanson@minnmax.com? I want to make sure we didn't miss you somehow.
@@minnmax Email sent! Thanks for reaching out, feel free to delete this comment
I look forward to hearing how Kyle fairs with the last boss of the dlc with his build
been waiting on this!
called it! so glad to see renata return!
She is the only one that calmed my frustration over the stuff the rest of the group didn't know or understand
Kyle min-maxing vigor and dex is very on brand
2:03:57 - Wait... are the dragons a stand-in for the indigenous people of North America? "They came before Merika ('murica)". Is the Erdtree just technology?? 😧
Don’t you mean Buts from Gerserk?
Part 2 of rhe deepest discussion of the DLC on the internet?
Not quite yet, no!
The two screens in the centre lining up *perfectly* at 40:24
disappointed to hear about the steam deck performance :( i’m basically handheld only, so guess i’ll have to wait and see if it gets fixed soon
I was Scadu 3 and I beat the shit out of that Blackgaol Knight.
Renata returns!!! So excited for this Deepest Dive
"Oh who is this Renata Person they seem cool"
Renata starts speaking: 😳 She is cool
As a big fan of you and your channel Jacob, I am greatly disappointed in this..
You title the video "opening hours" then proceed to ruin and spoil multiple mid to probably late game things? I expected to listen to this safely, and after getting some stuff from later in the expansion spoiled, I exited and promised myself to never again watch a deep dive video.
For real? I’m only 15 mins into the video, and I really don’t want the game ruined for me.
@@coreymaurer862 Yeah sadly they basically ignore the "opening hours" part of the title, and simply go over too many of boss names, locations, secret locations that are all from later on.. obviously I had no idea what these names were and am at least 30 hours in. Unforgivable.
I'm not that sensitive over spoilers but yeah they go over things that are just impossible to find within the first few hours such as the Abyssal Woods.
This was a great podcast a lot of really differing builds and perspectives with
well stated opinions!
Lets goooooooo
Sarah's froggy chair neon sign fills me with determination.
Great Dive. Even though potential spoilers could have been pointed out beforehand quickly. Hoping for a part 2 :)
Omg Renata Price! Hell yeah!
Sarah is so girlypop and I absolutely love it
Hello thanks for the great content as always, the fam is going through a tough time so appreciate the laughs. To Renata specifically even though I may not agree with you on everything I still appreciate the insight and humor hope everyone plants a couple Erd trees and has a blessed day 😂☺️🫡🙏🏻
Bruh… no offense, but half the questions you guys ask are easily answered through item descriptions and what not.
I love me some Renata v Rennala.
Goty
Having a blast so far, looking forward to listening to this, its insane that the game known for its difficulty (overblown by the community) has to actively buff the player now because its playerbase refuses to do the bare minimum of effort and 'pick up some fragments to increase your damage and damage reduction by 5% per'
I have absolutely no idea how so much of this games ALREADY ESTABLISHED PLAYERBASE was having so much trouble early on in the DLC, it's not like these players are brand new Nintendo fans seeing their first souls game or even just Elden Ring.
We were told about the fragment upgrade system before games release, the game shows you them and how important they are very early on, they're not hidden and out of the way (Im only half way through the DLC) they're in the path of the very obvious trails and roads leading to very obvious spots on the map and everyone's just choosing to ignore it all? as soon as that first knight down in the dungeon at the start of the DLC demolishes you you understand you need to go do SOMETHING and then boom they're marked with massive stakes of light coming out of the ground.
Then you see experienced video game enjoyers™ from streamers to writers or guys like Hanson playing and forgetting to rest at bonfires, saying he has no idea how to summon story NPC's before a boss fight and not rolling and all the raging and review 'bombing' online all kind of makes sense if this is how them majority of people play games
Here’s the From elitist here to tell everyone that the games are actually easy and everyone should “Git Gud”
The endgame boss balance is terrible in Elden Ring. The bosses aren’t satisfying because they are way too hard if you don’t use a summon and way too easy if you do. It requires way too much effort on the players part to make the fights satisfying.
@@jacobbryan3671 I'm doing the exact opposite of telling anyone to 'get good' this is post-game DLC for the most part and I'm saying the game, the devs, the only news we had about the DLC and the entire community are screaming for players of all skill levels "just pick up your shadow fragments you'll be fine"
I'm not even talking about boss balance though? if anything you're the elitist gatekeeper coming in telling people if they use summons its too easy so you have to what? impose weirdo challenges on yourself? then complain its too hard?
the game is designed with NPC summons in mind, especially the DLC, they're some of the most chatty NPC's we've had in a souls game and half of their backstories are locked behind 'help me kill the boss then we'll talk'
I don't care about how satisfying the fights are, they all boil down to rolling and being entirely invincible for the bosses attack, everyone can be as good or bad as they want, use whatever weapons they want and summon 9 mimic slimes for all I care
Im on the 3rd main boss fight right now and to be honest, I don’t notice a difference since the update. Not complaining because I like the challenge but the update in my opinion is very minor at best. Im lvl 200 with 70 vigor and lvl 10 Scadu Blessing and I’m still getting killed in 1-3 hits.
@@DFTNSHEXGRM AAAAAAAHHH I got an error posting a reply to this comment three times
Isn't getting hit by any noteworthy enemy 2-3 times a bad situation in any point in any souls game though? like Nameless King or Manus aren't wailing away on characters 10+ times before killing, the general vibe is always fuck up and get hit once then roll roll roll until you're safe enough to heal
Algo
Marry Ranni? I do her questline just to attack her at the end and break her heart.
This content is so good that I feel like I'm stealing watching through TH-cam. 😅
Oh hell yes. Hi Ren
Lol these kids
Weak, im gone