Failed first attempt at a rail mini spike tomahawk.
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 7 พ.ค. 2018
- I set out to forge a mini railroad spike tomahawk as a part of the blacksmith challenge. Well things didn't go so well. The hawk was a fail. So I set out to rework the punch and that was also a fail. Hopefully we will get it right the next time.
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One time comedian Steve Smith (The Red Green Show, Duct Tape Forever) told about complaining to Red Fisher (The Red Fisher show) that his fishing show was full of episodes where nobody caught anything. Mr. Fisher replied, "But you still watched them."
Love Red Green
It's funny how seeing your videos everyday almost makes me feel like you're a friend. Great video again, thank you very much.
That was some super serious file work to get the tip to turn blue. Great video as always. Thank you.
There may have been some behind the scenes grinding 😜
“Did you ever have one of those days...?” Yeah, most of them now. Age takes its toll! Last week, in one afternoon, I ruined four attempts at forging one little piece. The fourth one was finally right, but I got distracted and burned it up in the fire. Smooth.
I'm an instructor for the Total Control Advanced Riding Clinic for motorcyclists seeking to improve their riding skills. One of my favorite statements in the class calls out exactly what you are discussing:
"Everyone believes the old cliche that practice makes perfect. That just isn't true: PERFECT practice makes perfect."
In my own shop, I try to make everything as perfect as I can, even if the task doesn't require perfection. I want the outcome of my work to match as closely as possible, my design for it. If my design says "put a half inch hole here", I want that hole on size, in the right location. That's how we get better!
It’s never a failure.. it’s a learning lesson for the next time you do it. A failure is giving up and never trying again!
My experience with failure is not that you learn from them as much as you remember them a long time. I would tell my helpers after they made the same mistake twice. There is no educational benefit in the second kick of a mule. Really enjoy watching you work, thanks.
I like how he mentioned TH-cam. I have been told many times by someone that TH-cam is nothing but a waste of time while people could be out doing things instead. I always have to explain to them that I have learned a huge amount of things by watching TH-cam videos and seeing people who know a lot about a subject talk about it and demonstrate it. A lot of things like the blacksmithing on this channel or the glass blowing on the Corning museum of glass channel, are not readily available for people to actually go and see it demonstrated in person.
my failure come from not fully understanding or seeing the nuances after I have done the research, planning the process and practice the parts. It is a hell of a journey to push ones understanding and skills. This was a great video to make one think on many levels.
I have made these same exact mistakes trying to make a tomahawk out of a railroad spike. I have not been able to do it successfully. I finally made one out of a ball pein hammer head that came out good. Thanks for the video. Can’t wait to see you succeed in the next one!
Great message at the end John. I’m more then willing to learn from the mistakes of others so I don’t have to make them. I will make my own, a lot of them I’m sure, but hopefully a lot less then if I just went at it on my own.
I hate when a project, of any size, fails. And twice makes me nuts! I am certain that most failed projects never get uploaded. Pride can sometimes be a terrible thing. I appreciate that you share all the projects. Thank you, John! Great vid!
Dave
I just made a punch that did exactly what you described about the pyramid shape just pushing the slug back and forth instead of shearing out. So glad I came across this video. Thanks for the info!!
Ive neve seen a smoke ring get made when stricking the hot steel. I thought i was seeing things at 5.06 the strike makes a smoke ring. Anyway thanks for showing the mistakes i learn more seeing what not to do and the cause. Then it was nice to see it done correctly. Thanks again your my favorite youtube instructor.
Thanks for sharing the failures, it's nice to see it happens to smith with your skill and experience too.
I enjoy your videos so much but I have to say, this one makes me feel pretty good. I make a lot of mistakes,(Just got my forge and anvil about a year ago), and seeing someone like you making mistakes gives me the feeling that just working through mine will improve my work. Thanks again!
having heard your whole rant (don't worry - a person's gotta rant! a tempered rant is good for world peace), i say: i mostly agree. at first i was thinking "hmm.. I'm not so sure, mate". but in the end, i reckon learning comes from a fair bit of both- if you take the time to kinda analyse the causes and outcomes of both failure AND success. we can't let our failures be a wet blanket; no more than we can allow success to make us believe there's no more to learn from or improve. tong making is a good example: my first half dozen attempts were abject, miserable failures. SPECTACULAR failures! i kept at it, watching this video, that one.. staring at pairs of pliers. then- a success. now that ive made more than a dozen different styles, that first pair of flat-bit tongs (which are still in use but i reckon will one day break.. and are pretty unattractive) that i was so proud of look really ordinary. but they were a milestone of my progress where i could stop, turn around, and take in the view.. before i resumed the journey. i see learning as kinda like a trip where the destination is the horizon on a huge and flat plain: something that will never end. if it does, i believe you're doing it wrong.
hats off to you John, for another great video and for sharing your world. im sure the temptation would be to simply not post the video and only show the smooth and effortless application of your experience.. to show humility and fallibility is the mark of a good person. a good man, in your case! cheers John, 'til next time
As was said by Lone Watie "Endeavor to persevere"
"I reckon so"
Yet another awesome video ! I don't mind learning from your mistakes at all lol. I learn more from your mistakes than I do from other more musical forging for fun vids ever. Coming to your channel is like going to a good school for free !
Thanks, that is what I hope to offer.
I wholeheartedly agree with you. My roommate worked as a blacksmith years ago. When we first built our forge, he would sit and watch me do things the wrong way without ever correcting me. His reasoning was always, "you'll remember not to do that after doing it wrong so many times." That infuriated me. Luckily, I was able to go to the AACB (Appalachian Area Chapter of Blacksmiths) conference last year. I took a 2 hour class and learned more than I did over the previous 2 months. Learning from success is definitely better than learning from failure!
Will post a picture of my "little " Tomahawk tools on your Facebook group. Great video.
I think the crux of it is learn from your mistakes or you are doomed to repeat them.
Learn from others mistakes so you don’t need to make them.
I have been an apprentice when I was young and I wish I listened more 😀
Thanks for sharing your failures not really mistakes, you followed good practices they just weren’t the best for the current project.
I’m looking forward to seeing what works.
I have a coil spring in my shed just waiting for a challenge. 😀
Good attitude. I've learnt from your mistake now.
Like to see the failures keep going!
Nice piece at the end about not failing, etc. Every time I start a new hobby I spend well over 50 hours researching ang watching TH-cam videos about it. I've just finished my first knife and I made loads of mistakes but because of all the hours watching TH-cam I knew what to do or where to go to find the answers to fixing the mistakes. It's meant that the knife actually came out a LOT better then I could have ever hoped.
If I ever get bored doing my research before starting a new hobby, I haven't spent anything other then time so I don't loose much by moving on to the next thing. (I have loads of time free anyway as I have health problems that mean I spend a lot of my time not being able to move, so TH-cam is a bit of a lifeline)
I'm the youngest of three. I let my elder siblings make mistakes so I can learn from them. So +black bear forge, thanks for making mistakes so we don't have to :) happy to see this kind of content.
I definitely agree mistakes are not the goal. But as a newbie I'm going to make them. It's best to learn the known process, my mistakes will be where I've not understood. And rather than just ignoring them and being morose I like to turn it into something good and learn from it. I would not say I learn more than If I got it right. But there is no reason I have to learn less. Practice and experience definitely help.
not a rant but a good lifes lesson!
Love the topic here. Failures do happen no matter how careful we are. It's not the first nor will get the last. But I was told by another Smith that you should always slit and drift anything 1/2" or less. And I find in most cases it's true excluding punched mounting holes that are small anyway.
That may be a good rule of thumb.
I agree with that 100%! Wise words!
Probably for that small of a tomahawk, the Brian Brazeal style punch may have been too big. I agree a smaller, thinner slot punch would be ideal. You already have such little material, that any loss of material just adds to the risk of problems. And, upsetting to increase the thickness in the area to be punched should be the way to correct. Lessons learned!! Great video on thinking through a project and adjusting when there is an issue.
I'm glad you're showing us some of your fails. I watch a lot of videos and you and others make it look so easy. But then when I try I found that Blacksmithing is hard work and not at all as easy as it looks. I've had things disappeared in my forge. I've been nearly finished with a project and it broke plumb in too. I'm gonna have to modify my fire pot, it's way too deep. That'll help me a lot. I'm not gonna give up. It's way too early for that. I wish I could take a few classes but I'm not financially able. I have yet to find a friend who I can learn from. But I'll keep an eye out for someone. I may end up being a self taught Blacksmith. Just like my Dad was a self taught painter. He learned to do oil painting by watching Bob Ross videos. So I'll end my super long comment here and click on the next video. As always thank you for sharing your experience with us to help us on our Blacksmithing journey.
You learn more by your mistakes, than by your successes.
Another great video. Thank you.
Very interesting John, what about using some new spring steel or yeah just heard you say that new s7 and make the chisel a lot smaller and thinner for that railway spike. But i'm not an expert on this, can't wait to see the new one at work.
Thanks for another great video John! As you know from when I tagged you in my recent IG post, this one really hit home as the same thing happened to me. Although the crack happened during a different step in the process for me, this video explained a lot and I appreciate you sharing your experience with us.
Another great video,
The other week I had two attempts at doing a split cross for my Dad, and wouldn't you know it, the chiseling from the bottom near the head of the rail spike mucked up bad. And yet I have done a few before and they turned out pretty good, now I don't know if I used the wrong chisel or what, but these last two.....FAIL!!!
Q: Eye work on small material (as shown): 1) use small round punch (pilot hole)? 2)then; Upset end? 3) then med. size oval? 4) finish with desired size eye sized punch? What do you think? These failed attempt videos are great learning tools. They bring up info. otherwise assumed. Helping others not to repeat failures. Instead, doing it right the first time. Thanks for sharing.
That is a good way to go as long as there is enough material so that the eye doesn't thin out as it is drifted larger and larger.
Just made 2 bottle openers one i would call fail because i had to go to plan B to save the project and my second one was kinda fail,maybe just out of proportion since it was my first type of bottle opener that i use a punch on and drifting into some.But it was fun and ill do more because i cant let it beat me!
Just a bit of practice and they will get better and better.
Yeh we all mess up from time to time, am sure used to it :)
I gave you a shout out in my latest video, as you gave me just the right kind of advise a few weeks back to allow me to actually forge weld.
Successful forge welds are a real game changers, good job.
It's not the act of making mistakes that teaches, but the act of figuring out why it went bad and how to do it differently next time that constitutes the education, as you demonstrated with 'chisel not punch' and 'upset before doing the eye'.
Rare toroidal steam puff at 5:05.
That comes from the punch lube
I almost called it a smoke ring but I had enough time to second guess myself. Another reason to always use plenty of lube. Still seems odd it formed that way, but I'm a nerd like that. Pretty sure I've got some broken eye spikes like those in the vid which I feel better about now. Thanks John, good day
I've had similar problems with that type of punch geometry and find the slot punch works better for me. As for mistakes and learning from them? I think the goal is to shoot for the best outcome and learn from our mistakes??
If any one is looking for classes or weekend work shops check out the Center for Metal Arts in Johnstown Pa, it’s in the historic Cambria Iron works black smith shops. It’s an amazing facility and greater teachers!
I learned simultaneously. Thanks.
Smoke ring at 5:07
It does my heart good to know I'm not the only one failing in the shop...lol. I had a week recently where I had about three or four days of ruined projects. would it work to upset the area where the eye is going to be as well as the end? That way there will be more material for the eye.
It might, hopefully it will happen a little as the end is upset
Also this was really helpful. My first punch was pyramid style. It was small and on thin metal. It did just what yours did. It wouldn't sheer. I've had no success with them yet either. Slot style punch worked much better. Perhaps it's a lot to do with small stuff?
It may very well be that the material size limits its usefulness.
Some have said that the Brian Brazeal "pyramid" style punch is not good to use. I think it should be put in perspective that Brian was using that style punch for forming holes in larger stock such as hammers (say, 2 lb. and up in weight) and therefore needed the angular edges to gain penetration over using a blunt punch. I believe the flat punch is indeed better for smaller and/or thinner stock.
While that is very true. I have used that style for larger material and still have ended up with a ragged hole that had to be cleaned up with other tools. I am sure there are some small design changes from mine and Brian's that make the difference. But I have had such good success with the more traditional tools, I'm not sure I personally need to pursue fine tuning an alternative. That doesn't mean its a bad design or that people shouldn't try it for themselves, it just doesn't suit my work.
When I make a mistake I try to only make it once. Making the same mistake over and over again is no good.
Could you possibly make a video explaining the pros and cons of slit-chiselling & drifting vs. slug-punching & drifting? Also including what size slug on what size punch would be right, and why not just take a pointed tool like a center punch to just punch a hole.
I will see what I can come up with
ps- even some of those failed tongs weren't completely ruined. they've since been converted to things like my forge rake, pokers, rivets and stuff like that. cloud/silver lining 😜
When up setting, couldn't you put the punch-or-drift back in the hole 1st? I'm just a beginner and I know that I have to use my own emagination, but I'm in my 60's trying to start my retirement job. But anyway keep up the good work and God bless 🙏
Yeah when I made mine for our carpenter at work I did the whole upset first and then punch the hole with a slot punch, because it tended to put a little more meat where the eye goes. And I have the exact same Tongs you have. did you make those and sell them to me. Lol
I think the ones I am using here are from Blacksmiths Depot
Black Bear Forge good call, don't remember where I got mine but I recognize the touchmark on it.the same place I got mine. Great tongues best purchase have probably almost ever made
As a greensmith, I recommend the drill press. Lol
As small as this is, I hate loosing any material. But it would simplify the punching
Black Bear Forge but it wouldn't be a blacksmithing challenge to give up and drill. You got this
Something I do when I upset the end I forge it back down to close to the original spike size, gives a little more length and gets rid of the bulge.
I actually want the bulge to increase the mass at the end for creating the cutting edge
WELL you win some and you loose some but at the lest your right 98% of the time
If they don't find you handsome, they can at least find you handy.
THERE'S A REDGREEN TH-cam CHANNEL!!!
and I watch it
one thing that pisses me off the most is making mistakes in any thing i do i know its going to happen
The pyramid style punch has all the negative attributes of the slitting chisel and more without any of the positives of the flat bottomed punch.
Lets face it after six thousand years of blacksmithing history how can a new and better tool suddenly appear on the seen. If the pyramid shaped tool had worked well it would have been accepted as the tool of choice long ago.
I tend to agree with you. but I also don't want to be close minded to something that might end up being a good idea.
John, Question?Are RailRoad Spikes really a High Carbon Steel and is there a Chart or Way to tell what type of Steel there Made from.Thanks
I believe some are marked HC. The others are an alloy of some sort, so they are all harder than mild. I made these mini spikes myself from coil spring.
@@BlackBearForge
Ah, that explains it. The specs for RR spikes is no more than .3% carbon. All my attempts at hardening Spike knives have been failures.
I make Spike Hawks by forging them out into a flat bar and wrapping the drift and forge welding a spring steel bit.