Same experience as you. I have a competition gun chambered in .223. The shorter throat chamber of .223 is noticably more accurate with magazine fed ammunition, which is why I chamber competition guns in .223. With hot 77 grain handloads I have had a primer pierced once. Didn't damage anything. But regular 5.56 is not issue. Maybe a bit flatter primers in the spent cases, but nothing more. A note on the effects of heat. The major reason you get increased pressure from heat is the effects of heat on the powder, which burns faster when hot (noticable for most powder). You can demonstrate this leaving some rounds out in the sun and measuring velocity on a chrono. Chamber dimmension change may be a lesser factor.
I fully concur.. I have been shooting a mix of 223 & 5.56 in my RUGER MINI-14 in .223 cal since the late 1980's. It is only been recently since I bought an AR in .223 that all this 5.56/.223 HYPE started to evolve. Granted it is good gun behaviour to follow the 5.56/223 guidelines on ammo use per weapon use. Just review the facts on 308 vs 7.62x51 thus the 308 is a slightly hotter round than a 7.62x51. Yet they are compatible to use together. I have not yet to encountered a catastrophic event of a .223 rifle using .5.56 nato at the range or on TH-cam. ANYWHO! great video.......
I forgot to say: The 223 barrel and chamber are proof tested at 87,000 psi, while 5.56 in a 223 generates 20,000 to 25,000 psi less than that. Also, gain 75 yards more reliable fragmentation with m193 loads in the .223 vs the 5.56.
@@donaldmack2307 Gunsmiths in ye olde times would quadruple the powder charge when testing their barrels/guns. Granted that was black gun powder and didn't produce the same pressures as today, it was one way to easily test if the gun/barrel would hold up to regular use.
This is the best explanation I've seen. If a rifle can't handle 15% more pressure then it's garbage and inherently unsafe. Compounding issues is an excellent point.
Thank you. I have 2 Colt older Match competition rifles in .223 and i wanted to shoot safely some 5.56 in them. They are really STURDY rifles and i think it will be ok after seeing your post. PEW PEW PEW 🔫🔫🔫💥💥💥💖
From per-using Wikipedia, I have found that it lists 223 Remington as having maximum pressure of 55k psi (SAAMI) and 62k psi (CIP). Based on further reading, US Military SCATP 5.56 standard testing process is similar to SAAMI and according to that standard (SCATP 5.56), maximum pressure of 5.56NATO is 55k psi. Using the NATO standard EPVAT testing data, 5.56NATO maximum pressure is 62k psi (similar to CIP). All numbers are approximate and rounded to nearest thousand. Furthermore, Hodgdon (the simplest example) lists loads that produce 3200fps MV at 55k psi out of a 24" barrel.
So maybe someone or you could answer this because it’s a simple question. I have two ARS in 556 and one Ruger bolt gun in 223. I’ve always been nervous about mixing up things because the bolt gun takes an AR or M-16 magazine.but something deep inside of me says it’s a bolt gun for spaced out long range shots and should be fine for handling the 556. Unlike my AR which are intended for several fast shots. I should be fine and I’m right?
Generally, bolt guns are a stronger design with easier allowances for longer loadings. I would be inclined to agree. Just don't get it overly hot in the chamber or run it extremely dirty.
Am I missing something ?. I think the NATO 5.56 ammo is loaded to a lower pressure so that it can be used in a wide range of weapons used across all NATO counties. So a weapon designed for the .223 can use NATO 5.56 but not the other way round.,
They both run darn near within their respective chambers, but the 5.56 specs are for slightly higher pressure. The .223 chamber is shorter than the 5.56, so it makes extra pressure yet if you put a NATO round in a .223 chamber.
As long as you don’t load 300 black out you’ll be good probably. Learned that the hard way buying bulk ammo a $1.50 quick welded barrel and destroid bolt carrier
My Dad bought a Colt Sp1 back in 1974. Those rifles are clearly marked cal. .223 but I've ran both 5.56 and .223 though it for literally decades.We never knew the difference we thought that it was just the difference in the measurement system. If it's a good rifle it doesn't matter, believe me I wouldn't be here if it did.
It will, just as running hot hand loads will. I would be fine with those too. I don't see any significant wear differences, but it undoubtedly will wear a but faster.
He’s saying for instance if you heat up a ring the outside AND inside diameter grow larger.. I fully agree tho I wouldn’t hesitate to shoot 556 out of 223.. I’ve been reloading a very long time and this to me would be about accuracy. I do chase accuracy to some pretty crazy velocities if I have to. I just know the limitations of when I absolutely need to stop and that point is often a lot lower than some other guys I know push it.
One of the issues with 223 vs 5.56 is that 5.56 will tend to have faster twist rates (as fast as 1:7) which are needed to stabilize longer (and hence heavier) projectiles, whereas 223 barrels are likely intended for shorter (lighter) projectiles and will have a slower twist rate. Check the information on what twist your rifle has and whether it is fine for your ammo.
Enjoyed your video as usual. Keep ‘em coming. On the topic of velocity, which is what makes a .223/5.56 effective, I replaced my 16” upper with a 20” government profile 1:9 twist. Love it…shoots holes through 1/4” mild steel at 200 yards.
SAAMI pressure standards for -BOTH- .223 Rem and 5.65 NATO are (55,000 psi) / CIP pressure method is (62,000 psi) / CUP (52,000 cup) 👈🏻 for -BOTH- Kinda confusing the way the numbers are finagled. Chamber throats are slightly longer on military rifles to facilitate “reliability.” Longer chamber throats allow more room for fowling (soot, dirt and grime), and take into account the excessive heat generated during sustained fire. AR’s with “match barrels” or bolt action hunting rifles tend to have tighter chambers for improved accuracy. All quality firearms chambered in either .223 Rem OR 5.56 NATO are capable of handling twice the maximum pressure rating for their cartridge and have been used interchangeably, without issue, for 60 years. ~ It would seem until now.
Can you? Yes. Does it have more pressure? Yes. Is it POSSIBLE it will break your rifle down at a faster rate over time if you run strictly 556 long term? Yes, it is both possible and probable. Is it certain? Nah. Personally, both of my AR's are "rated for 556". Do I run them? Sure. Do I prefer to run 223 just to keep the pressure lower on my rifles long term even though it's made for 556? Yes, I do. It's kind of like running +P or +P+ rounds though my handguns. If it's rated for +P (or even a hotter load like +P+), and that's all I fire, will it break my gun down faster than standard rounds? You bet. If it's only +p rated and I run P+P from time to time can I? Most likely won't be a problem. Though it "could be" So, except for periodic training, and carry ammo, when out in the woods having fun, though it can run hotter loads, I'll run standard to preserve my weapon's integrity long term. So can you? Yeah, in most situations, PROBABLY. SHOULD you IF you have the choice to run 223? Nope. It is likely you wont' even notice. I can't really tell. Even running what your weapon is designed for isn't foolproof from risk, so even though, in theory can, if given the choice not to, that is the best option. Disclaimer: "Can you"? Yes. SHOULD you? No! Will anything bad likely happen if you do from time to time? PROBABLY NOT. This is NOT advice or a recommendation. This is based off of my own experience. Make your own choices, do your own research from qualified sources. What you do beyond this point has nothing to do with me.
Is it 223 wylde? I work in the firearms industry and I’ve seen so many things go wrong when people try to experiment outside of the manufacturer’s recommendations and design. I would strongly discourage it if the data stamp and manufacturer say 223 rem. I’ve seen firearms blow up, people come off the range with injuries. Not worth it in my opinion. NATO and SAAMI standards are different so not all ammunition goes through the exact same testing or use the same standards. Remember, NATO is designed for military and the other is more the civilian/sporting round. I’m sure I’ll get flack for this but hey I’ve seen first hand experiences of what goes wrong and have an engineering background and have delved into the ballistics of each round. Once again just my opinion but, play stupid games, win stupid prizes…..
The advantages, beside another option for ammo, are shooting military m193 and m855 (green tip), as well as gaining a bit more potency in the ballistics. You have an additional 75-yards max effective range, and it's a bit flatter shooting. With the 223/5.56, it's velocity that causes major damage. For tactical use, most of the military style fmj bullets fragment reliably at velocities over 2700 fps, so the longer you can keep the bullet above that, the greater it's combat effectiveness. I would have covered that in the video, but I recorded it at 2 am and missed some of my points.
Same experience as you. I have a competition gun chambered in .223. The shorter throat chamber of .223 is noticably more accurate with magazine fed ammunition, which is why I chamber competition guns in .223. With hot 77 grain handloads I have had a primer pierced once. Didn't damage anything. But regular 5.56 is not issue. Maybe a bit flatter primers in the spent cases, but nothing more.
A note on the effects of heat. The major reason you get increased pressure from heat is the effects of heat on the powder, which burns faster when hot (noticable for most powder). You can demonstrate this leaving some rounds out in the sun and measuring velocity on a chrono. Chamber dimmension change may be a lesser factor.
Very informative!
Great explanation 👍🏼
Thanks homie!
I fully concur.. I have been shooting a mix of 223 & 5.56 in my RUGER MINI-14 in .223 cal since the late 1980's. It is only been recently since I bought an AR in .223 that all this 5.56/.223 HYPE started to evolve. Granted it is good gun behaviour to follow the 5.56/223 guidelines on ammo use per weapon use. Just review the facts on 308 vs 7.62x51 thus the 308 is a slightly hotter round than a 7.62x51. Yet they are compatible to use together. I have not yet to encountered a catastrophic event of a .223 rifle using .5.56 nato at the range or on TH-cam. ANYWHO! great video.......
Ruger has literature dating back to 1970s saying that 5.56 military cartridge is fine in their Mini-14s.
I forgot to say: The 223 barrel and chamber are proof tested at 87,000 psi, while 5.56 in a 223 generates 20,000 to 25,000 psi less than that. Also, gain 75 yards more reliable fragmentation with m193 loads in the .223 vs the 5.56.
Thats a shitload of PSI.
Thanks for your vids btw. I got a 10/22 yesterday and a few of your vids have been educational for me.
@@donaldmack2307 Gunsmiths in ye olde times would quadruple the powder charge when testing their barrels/guns. Granted that was black gun powder and didn't produce the same pressures as today, it was one way to easily test if the gun/barrel would hold up to regular use.
This is the best explanation I've seen. If a rifle can't handle 15% more pressure then it's garbage and inherently unsafe. Compounding issues is an excellent point.
Thank you. I have 2 Colt older Match competition rifles in .223 and i wanted to shoot safely some 5.56 in them. They are really STURDY rifles and i think it will be ok after seeing your post. PEW PEW PEW 🔫🔫🔫💥💥💥💖
From per-using Wikipedia, I have found that it lists 223 Remington as having maximum pressure of 55k psi (SAAMI) and 62k psi (CIP). Based on further reading, US Military SCATP 5.56 standard testing process is similar to SAAMI and according to that standard (SCATP 5.56), maximum pressure of 5.56NATO is 55k psi. Using the NATO standard EPVAT testing data, 5.56NATO maximum pressure is 62k psi (similar to CIP). All numbers are approximate and rounded to nearest thousand. Furthermore, Hodgdon (the simplest example) lists loads that produce 3200fps MV at 55k psi out of a 24" barrel.
So maybe someone or you could answer this because it’s a simple question. I have two ARS in 556 and one Ruger bolt gun in 223. I’ve always been nervous about mixing up things because the bolt gun takes an AR or M-16 magazine.but something deep inside of me says it’s a bolt gun for spaced out long range shots and should be fine for handling the 556. Unlike my AR which are intended for several fast shots. I should be fine and I’m right?
Generally, bolt guns are a stronger design with easier allowances for longer loadings. I would be inclined to agree. Just don't get it overly hot in the chamber or run it extremely dirty.
Youre fine w 556.
Am I missing something ?. I think the NATO 5.56 ammo is loaded to a lower pressure so that it can be used in a wide range of weapons used across all NATO counties. So a weapon designed for the .223 can use NATO 5.56 but not the other way round.,
They both run darn near within their respective chambers, but the 5.56 specs are for slightly higher pressure. The .223 chamber is shorter than the 5.56, so it makes extra pressure yet if you put a NATO round in a .223 chamber.
As long as you don’t load 300 black out you’ll be good probably. Learned that the hard way buying bulk ammo a $1.50 quick welded barrel and destroid bolt carrier
Yeah, that's not advised.
Maybe I’m stupid but will 300 blackout even load in a 223 chamber?
Hope you been good buddy
Metal fatigue...
I think this is one if not the best video in yt related to this topic.
You do not know what you are talking about the Freeborn is to use tracer rd.
My Dad bought a Colt Sp1 back in 1974. Those rifles are clearly marked cal. .223 but I've ran both 5.56 and .223 though it for literally decades.We never knew the difference we thought that it was just the difference in the measurement system. If it's a good rifle it doesn't matter, believe me I wouldn't be here if it did.
Is it possible you are wearing out your chamber lead early?
It will, just as running hot hand loads will. I would be fine with those too. I don't see any significant wear differences, but it undoubtedly will wear a but faster.
Heat will expand the chamber
It will.
He’s saying for instance if you heat up a ring the outside AND inside diameter grow larger.. I fully agree tho I wouldn’t hesitate to shoot 556 out of 223.. I’ve been reloading a very long time and this to me would be about accuracy. I do chase accuracy to some pretty crazy velocities if I have to. I just know the limitations of when I absolutely need to stop and that point is often a lot lower than some other guys I know push it.
This video was made a year ago. Are you still alive? Do you still have all your fingers?
🤦🏻♂️
Do you think you can shoot 5.56 7o grain ammo in .223? For deer hunting?
One of the issues with 223 vs 5.56 is that 5.56 will tend to have faster twist rates (as fast as 1:7) which are needed to stabilize longer (and hence heavier) projectiles, whereas 223 barrels are likely intended for shorter (lighter) projectiles and will have a slower twist rate. Check the information on what twist your rifle has and whether it is fine for your ammo.
Gun tradition i just found your channel. Are you still planning on making videos? Its been 4 months and so far i enjoy your content
Enjoyed your video as usual. Keep ‘em coming. On the topic of velocity, which is what makes a .223/5.56 effective, I replaced my 16” upper with a 20” government profile 1:9 twist. Love it…shoots holes through 1/4” mild steel at 200 yards.
SAAMI pressure standards for -BOTH- .223 Rem and 5.65 NATO are (55,000 psi) / CIP pressure method is (62,000 psi) / CUP (52,000 cup) 👈🏻 for -BOTH- Kinda confusing the way the numbers are finagled. Chamber throats are slightly longer on military rifles to facilitate “reliability.” Longer chamber throats allow more room for fowling (soot, dirt and grime), and take into account the excessive heat generated during sustained fire. AR’s with “match barrels” or bolt action hunting rifles tend to have tighter chambers for improved accuracy. All quality firearms chambered in either .223 Rem OR 5.56 NATO are capable of handling twice the maximum pressure rating for their cartridge and have been used interchangeably, without issue, for 60 years. ~ It would seem until now.
Hope you can make some new video, God Bless you!
Are we going to see anymore pistol videos I've been waiting
I have an anderson am15 in 223 ... can i shoot 556 ???
I would, but I wouldn't let it get overly hot while doing so.
It’s not rated for it. Be safe and follow the manufactures publications on the matter.
Can you? Yes. Does it have more pressure? Yes. Is it POSSIBLE it will break your rifle down at a faster rate over time if you run strictly 556 long term? Yes, it is both possible and probable. Is it certain? Nah. Personally, both of my AR's are "rated for 556". Do I run them? Sure. Do I prefer to run 223 just to keep the pressure lower on my rifles long term even though it's made for 556? Yes, I do. It's kind of like running +P or +P+ rounds though my handguns. If it's rated for +P (or even a hotter load like +P+), and that's all I fire, will it break my gun down faster than standard rounds? You bet. If it's only +p rated and I run P+P from time to time can I? Most likely won't be a problem. Though it "could be" So, except for periodic training, and carry ammo, when out in the woods having fun, though it can run hotter loads, I'll run standard to preserve my weapon's integrity long term. So can you? Yeah, in most situations, PROBABLY. SHOULD you IF you have the choice to run 223? Nope. It is likely you wont' even notice. I can't really tell. Even running what your weapon is designed for isn't foolproof from risk, so even though, in theory can, if given the choice not to, that is the best option. Disclaimer: "Can you"? Yes. SHOULD you? No! Will anything bad likely happen if you do from time to time? PROBABLY NOT. This is NOT advice or a recommendation. This is based off of my own experience. Make your own choices, do your own research from qualified sources. What you do beyond this point has nothing to do with me.
Is it 223 wylde? I work in the firearms industry and I’ve seen so many things go wrong when people try to experiment outside of the manufacturer’s recommendations and design. I would strongly discourage it if the data stamp and manufacturer say 223 rem. I’ve seen firearms blow up, people come off the range with injuries. Not worth it in my opinion. NATO and SAAMI standards are different so not all ammunition goes through the exact same testing or use the same standards. Remember, NATO is designed for military and the other is more the civilian/sporting round. I’m sure I’ll get flack for this but hey I’ve seen first hand experiences of what goes wrong and have an engineering background and have delved into the ballistics of each round. Once again just my opinion but, play stupid games, win stupid prizes…..
What are the advantages of shooting 556 in 223!
The advantages, beside another option for ammo, are shooting military m193 and m855 (green tip), as well as gaining a bit more potency in the ballistics. You have an additional 75-yards max effective range, and it's a bit flatter shooting. With the 223/5.56, it's velocity that causes major damage. For tactical use, most of the military style fmj bullets fragment reliably at velocities over 2700 fps, so the longer you can keep the bullet above that, the greater it's combat effectiveness. I would have covered that in the video, but I recorded it at 2 am and missed some of my points.
It's not a question of if... It's a question of when. 💥
Uh, no