Jim Bouton's book "Ball Four" was written fifty years ago and back then it did stir up quite a bit of controversy. When read today, it's more touching and personal than it is scandalous.
"After that came Dick Cavett. I'd heard he was great about reading books of the authors who came on his show and I was prepared for a good in-depth interview. Instead I got a very superficial few minutes during which it became painfully plain that Cavett hadn't done his homework either." - Jim Bouton; "I'm Glad You Didn't Take It Personally" sequel to Ball Four.
I read that too. He complained that 1. Johnny Carson wouldn't book him on his show because "I didn't go on it first". 2. Merv Griffin drove him nuts saying 5 minutes before the show "Listen, I haven't read your book, what would you like me to ask you?". Bouton was totally self-centered. Joe Pepitone had mixed feelings about him but did say when they were in the minors that when a player would make an error that cost Bouton getting the win he would whine about "if the 2nd baseman hadn't made an error I would have had the win" etc. Bouton himself admitted in Ball Four that in high school and little league he would scream at a kid who made an error. Textbook definition of a "me first" player. Ball Four was a good book but parts were very judgmental and clearly he knew that the gossip parts would mean high sales. He cloaked his greed and narcissism behind "well I told the truth". Yes, HIS truth.
Interesting that it seems no one said what he wrote was untrue, just that it was possibly unflattering. There will always be people who think they're entitled to flattery, and only flattery.
When I was a kid, I rooted for the Yankees and I remember Jim Bouton when he was a star pitcher in 1963 and 1964. He threw so hard with an overhand delivery that his cap would fly off his head all the time. He had those two great seasons but then suffered a sore arm in 1965 that effectively ended his career. He hung around for a few more years, and then wrote Ball Four.
'The Long Goodbye' starring Elliot Gould, 1973. Jim was nice enough to attend a screening of that at the Film Forum in New York about 2007, and I got to shake his hand.
landmark book. we lost mr. bouton last year. 2019. mr. bouton wasn't your typical "ball player", who he describes in hilarious detail. holds up well 50 years later.
Casey Stengel when asked about players on him team caught drinking whiskey said they win more games than guys that drink milkshakes. He also said players having sex after a ballgame is not the problem. The problem is when they spend all night going out looking for it.
Jim Bouton was 31 when he appeared on the Cavett program. Many of the sportswriters were as outraged with Jim Bouton and Ball Four as some of the ballplayers. 'How dare he write this book?', some of the older writers said. As Bouton explained, many of the writers were an extension of the public relations departments of the major league teams, often getting their hotel rooms and meals paid for by the big league clubs.
Ya know among the many things "Ball Four" provides is that it’s the only history, oral history at that, of the Seattle Pilots who only played for one season before being sold to Milwaukee, business man, thus giving birth to the Brewers. The American League granted Seattle the expansion Mariners in order to settle a lawsuit stemming from the Pilots being sold and leaving town. My dad's cousin Fritz Peterson was roommates with Jim when they were both on the Yankees, and he’s all over this book. I must’ve read it at least fifty times.
Wow, that's cool! If I gave you some questions for your dad's cousin, could you get them to him and let know his answers? I've been doing research on baseball in the 60s, which I see as the golden age of baseball, so I always try to hear from anyone who played in that era about the questions I have about that time.
I know, that's some irony - a team only exists for one season, and over the course of that season one of its players just happens to produce maybe the best-known baseball book ever.
A friend made a wonderful imaginative film about Brother Theodore. There's a short clip from him on Cavett, being himself. Amazing life. Do you have the whole interview?
The first pro baseball game I saw was at Fenway Park in 1965. Bouton pitched and won. I think he pitched seven innings. Great fastball and the cap falling off his head. Final score was 5-2.
Thanks for Sharing, and I enjoyed reading Ball Four myself, it was great to read, and Laugh out Loud Funny, and manager Joe Schultz was quite the character in it!!!!
Here they're just talking about what the book had to say about ballplayers and their sex lives. But maybe at least as scandalous was what he revealed about how widespread the use of amphetamines among ballplayers was - 'greenies.'
I wonder if Willie "Pops" Stargell got his nickname because of it earlier. "Pops" was truly en vogue in 1979. Also Willie Mays liked his speed to be liquid in a small cup. "Say Hey" might of been in Bouton's book, but I don't remember.
@@mrlafayette1964 You’re right about that, it was great to read and laugh out loud funny, but it also talked about just how difficult it was to make a living at Baseball in General back then!!!
Anyone who looks at athletes as role models in rest of their lives is silly. Why on earth would a fotballer or a baseball player be a more noble creature than rest of us?🤣
i have nothing against the other celebs that were on this show but is this channel ever going to show the Dick Cavett shows where he interviews Jackie Gleason or Art Carney? How about any Honeymooners actors that were a part of the main cast?
Does anyone know about a "Dick Cavett" that featured (I believe) Mickey Mantle, umpire Lou(Tom?) Gorman and another ball player. Where Mantle told Cavett that they had started to put "showers for two" in the locker rooms ? (And he believed him)
I used to e-mail Jim on his website and he always wrote back and was a class act. The BS here is no different from the censure-ship now we see from the likes of Twitter and Facebook. The first amendment is for everyone and not just for some.
People have forever conflated generalisation with pigeonholing & the errors oft tear at the fabric of society for good reason. There's much disdain for one's role in life if said role seems to lambast the rolee' when preference or natural ability lends them shine elsewhere. Judging a book by its cover remains ill advised at the best of times, learning less about the text than a quick scan of the last page would. Pause will save the day more often than not, so give room for pause & observe the scope of reason its day to shine.
Every clip I watch reminds me of the colossal, boring incompetence of Dick Cavett as a talk-show host. It continues to astonish me that this guy was on television for so many years. So, so many wasted opportunities.
These are lazy and banal questions from Cavitt. I doubt he read much if any of the book. Many consider Ball Four one of the top sports book written. It is a very funny insiders look. I would it recommend to anyone.
@@schmittyhanrahan8126 Cavett in fact did NOT read the book, and Bouton-despite the courtesy he shows Cavett here-was really burned up about it. The only talk show host who actually read it AND interviewed Bouton was, of all people, David Frost.
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Jim Bouton's book "Ball Four" was written fifty years ago and back then it did stir up quite a bit of controversy. When read today, it's more touching and personal than it is scandalous.
You’re right about that!!!
Why does he look like Aaron Eckhart ❓❓❓❓❓❔❔❔❔❔❔❔❔❔❔❓❓
I just started reading it and its WONDERFUL!
"After that came Dick Cavett. I'd heard he was great about reading books of the authors who came on his show and I was prepared for a good in-depth interview. Instead I got a very superficial few minutes during which it became painfully plain that Cavett hadn't done his homework either." - Jim Bouton; "I'm Glad You Didn't Take It Personally" sequel to Ball Four.
I read that too. He complained that 1. Johnny Carson wouldn't book him on his show because "I didn't go on it first". 2. Merv Griffin drove him nuts saying 5 minutes before the show "Listen, I haven't read your book, what would you like me to ask you?". Bouton was totally self-centered. Joe Pepitone had mixed feelings about him but did say when they were in the minors that when a player would make an error that cost Bouton getting the win he would whine about "if the 2nd baseman hadn't made an error I would have had the win" etc. Bouton himself admitted in Ball Four that in high school and little league he would scream at a kid who made an error. Textbook definition of a "me first" player. Ball Four was a good book but parts were very judgmental and clearly he knew that the gossip parts would mean high sales. He cloaked his greed and narcissism behind "well I told the truth". Yes, HIS truth.
I can’t stop watching the clips.
You and me both
Who doesn’t love Dick though ?
@@user-br3bw7wr2l prudes
Me too!!!!
Why does he look like Aaron Eckhart ❔❓❔😮
Thanks mr. Cavett! That book is still great fun.
Yes it was!!!!
Read it in early 70,s. Sure did open my eyes. But hey , the truth is the truth. Well done jim.
I know Right, it was great to read and Laugh out Loud Funny!!!!
Cavett is one of the greatest interviewers of all time. Great questions, quick wit, and he seems to really do his research. The best.
I tend to agree. Remember his pbs show in early 80s? So much better than these juvenille clowns today like fallon,kimmel and colbert.
Crazy to think Janis, Jimmy and Jim Morrison were still alive when this aired on television.
I know Right!!!!
Interesting that it seems no one said what he wrote was untrue, just that it was possibly unflattering. There will always be people who think they're entitled to flattery, and only flattery.
I enjoyed Ball Four, it was a great book to read, and Laugh out Loud Funny!!!!
Very good comment - the Truth hurts
You're wrong there. Bowie Kuhn claimed it was non-specifically untrue, and tried to get Bouton to sign a document saying so.
@@GraemeCree oh since bowie kuhn said so...
@@amandam1137 Your claim was that nobody disputed it. I'm not saying Kuhn was right, only that he did claim that something or other in it was untrue.
When I was a kid, I rooted for the Yankees and I remember Jim Bouton when he was a star pitcher in 1963 and 1964. He threw so hard with an overhand delivery that his cap would fly off his head all the time. He had those two great seasons but then suffered a sore arm in 1965 that effectively ended his career. He hung around for a few more years, and then wrote Ball Four.
Yes, now that you mentioned it, I loved reading Ball Four, it was a great book to read, and Laugh out Loud Funny!!!!!
Brilliant man and beyond cool. What other ballplayer can say they were in a Robert Altman film?
You’re right about that!!!!!
'The Long Goodbye' starring Elliot Gould, 1973. Jim was nice enough to attend a screening of that at the Film Forum in New York about 2007, and I got to shake his hand.
@@ronmackinnon9374 Good to know, I enjoyed reading Ball Four, it was great to read and Laugh out Loud Funny!!!
landmark book. we lost mr. bouton last year. 2019. mr. bouton wasn't your typical "ball player", who he describes in hilarious detail. holds up well 50 years later.
You’re right about that!!!!!!
Joe Pepitone's book was way better. Plus Pepitone was a much better and well known player than Bouton.
a.k.a. Terry Lennox in Robert Altman's The Long Goodbye.
Yes, now that you mentioned it!!!!
He was E X C E L L E N T in that, as good as any other actor and better than most.
Casey Stengel when asked about players on him team caught drinking whiskey said they win more games than guys that drink milkshakes. He also said players having sex after a ballgame is not the problem. The problem is when they spend all night going out looking for it.
Jim Bouton was 31 when he appeared on the Cavett program.
Many of the sportswriters were as outraged with Jim Bouton and Ball Four as some of the ballplayers. 'How dare he write this book?', some of the older writers said. As Bouton explained, many of the writers were an extension of the public relations departments of the major league teams, often getting their hotel rooms and meals paid for by the big league clubs.
Ya know among the many things "Ball Four" provides is that it’s the only history, oral history at that, of the Seattle Pilots who only played for one season before being sold to Milwaukee, business man, thus giving birth to the Brewers.
The American League granted Seattle the expansion Mariners in order to settle a lawsuit stemming from the Pilots being sold and leaving town.
My dad's cousin Fritz Peterson was roommates with Jim when they were both on the Yankees, and he’s all over this book. I must’ve read it at least fifty times.
Good to know!!!
Wow, that's cool! If I gave you some questions for your dad's cousin, could you get them to him and let know his answers? I've been doing research on baseball in the 60s, which I see as the golden age of baseball, so I always try to hear from anyone who played in that era about the questions I have about that time.
Ahhhh Yes the infamous Fritz Peterson. He and his buddy Mike Kekich swap wives I think in 73!!!
I know, that's some irony - a team only exists for one season, and over the course of that season one of its players just happens to produce maybe the best-known baseball book ever.
@@ronmackinnon9374 I know Right, it was great to Read, and Laugh out Loud Funny!!!
Jim left us aged 80 last July.
One of the only books I have ever read where I would just burst out laughing :) Not many books will do that and it is a great book!
I know Right, and the many Quotes are just Laugh out Loud Funny to read!!!
Joe Pepitone's book makes BALL FOUR look like a Hardy Boy's story.
@@georgevincent1834 I will have to read Joe's book sometime. It sounds like it would be very interesting!
@@jeffthewhiff It is. Also check out Bill Lee's book, THE WRONG STUFF. Also very funny.
@@georgevincent1834 George, I actually have read the Bill Lee book; "The Wrong Stuff" and it was really funny too!
A friend made a wonderful imaginative film about Brother Theodore. There's a short clip from him on Cavett, being himself. Amazing life. Do you have the whole interview?
The first pro baseball game I saw was at Fenway Park in 1965.
Bouton pitched and won.
I think he pitched seven innings.
Great fastball and the cap falling off his head.
Final score was 5-2.
If h e still had a great fastball, he hadn't hurt his arm yet. After that, he had to switch to the knuckleball.
Thanks for Sharing, and I enjoyed reading Ball Four myself, it was great to read, and Laugh out Loud Funny, and manager Joe Schultz was quite the character in it!!!!
Here they're just talking about what the book had to say about ballplayers and their sex lives. But maybe at least as scandalous was what he revealed about how widespread the use of amphetamines among ballplayers was - 'greenies.'
I wonder if Willie "Pops" Stargell got his nickname because of it earlier. "Pops" was truly en vogue in 1979. Also Willie Mays liked his speed to be liquid in a small cup. "Say Hey" might of been in Bouton's book, but I don't remember.
Loved Ball Four, it was a great Book to read!!!!
I'm reading it now,it's honest and humorous. We've all wondered how our sports idols are when they're off the field.
@@mrlafayette1964 You’re right about that, it was great to read and laugh out loud funny, but it also talked about just how difficult it was to make a living at Baseball in General back then!!!
@@adamdorgant9454 It even includes references to Marvin Miller and the early days of the Players Association.
@@ronmackinnon9374 True!!!!
AGREE! I just started it!
Jim really didn't write Ball Four. He had a ghost writer that put all of Jim's notes together. Lots of books are written this way.
Bouton died last year, age 80.
I enjoyed the book Ball Four, it was great to read and Laugh out Loud Funny!!!!
Anyone who looks at athletes as role models in rest of their lives is silly. Why on earth would a fotballer or a baseball player be a more noble creature than rest of us?🤣
Gone those days ...
when books were read 🤷🏻♂️
So true
People still read books, don't judge the rest of us by your own low standards.
@@shiftyfitter lol...very true
Yes, now that you mentioned it!!!
i have nothing against the other celebs that were on this show but is this channel ever going to show the Dick Cavett shows where he interviews Jackie Gleason or Art Carney? How about any Honeymooners actors that were a part of the main cast?
Does anyone know about a "Dick Cavett" that featured (I believe) Mickey Mantle, umpire Lou(Tom?) Gorman and another ball player. Where Mantle told Cavett that they had started to put "showers for two" in the locker rooms ? (And he believed him)
I’m reading this now for the first time. It was a different time then. Not a big deal by todays standard. Canseco take the cake.
I enjoyed reading Ball Four myself, it was great to read, and Laugh out Loud Funny!!!!
Today we don't even have standards! 😭
He’s forty haha.... amazing
I used to e-mail Jim on his website and he always wrote back and was a class act. The BS here is no different from the censure-ship now we see from the likes of Twitter and Facebook. The first amendment is for everyone and not just for some.
True!!
People have forever conflated generalisation with pigeonholing & the errors oft tear at the fabric of society for good reason. There's much disdain for one's role in life if said role seems to lambast the rolee' when preference or natural ability lends them shine elsewhere. Judging a book by its cover remains ill advised at the best of times, learning less about the text than a quick scan of the last page would. Pause will save the day more often than not, so give room for pause & observe the scope of reason its day to shine.
What a handsome man!
And anything Bouton told quickly fades away with the steroids era.
True!!!
Every clip I watch reminds me of the colossal, boring incompetence of Dick Cavett as a talk-show host. It continues to astonish me that this guy was on television for so many years. So, so many wasted opportunities.
These are lazy and banal questions from Cavitt. I doubt he read much if any of the book. Many consider Ball Four one of the top sports book written. It is a very funny insiders look. I would it recommend to anyone.
@@schmittyhanrahan8126 Cavett in fact did NOT read the book, and Bouton-despite the courtesy he shows Cavett here-was really burned up about it. The only talk show host who actually read it AND interviewed Bouton was, of all people, David Frost.
@@schmittyhanrahan8126 Agreed!!!