I always hated, how much people disliked the story. They did something completely different and bold with the storyline and left players rooting for both sides at the end, which I think is really beautiful, as they show - just like you said - that both protagonists are "right" with what they are doing but also that there is basically no happy ending.
@@maxisendmeyer7675 I am very new to TLOU so I only heard about the hate when I looked into the game. Naughty Dog took a very BIG risk with this story because they knew it would divide the fan base. And sure… some plot points are weird and the structure of story telling might be off putting to some. But overall it is still a good story. Too many people IMO equate a good story to a happy story. No one wants to see their favourite protagonist die or not have the ending they feel the character deserves. TLOU P2 literally says “Screw it” and went all in on capitalising the horror of this world. It’s these type of stories that draw me in: Peaky blinders did it, Game of Thrones did it, Breaking bad did it, shutter island did it and so on… they creature a experience that will shock you, amaze you, stun you and so much more, making it unforgettable And I get that THAT type of story isn’t for everyone but it’s what made me enjoy this story so much
It wasn't different, in fact this is the bog standard template for just about all PG revenge stories since the 80's, the only difference is instead of the villain who does nothing to repent for what they've done falling off a cliff trying to stab the hero in the end, they sail off into the distance having learned nothing. Hell, if anything it's a *regression* of those stories because even in the 80's you had plenty of schlock like Traxx, a movie about a mass-murderer turned Cookie-maker, making fun of the concept that you could be nice to totally irrelevant strangers and it makes up for all the harm you've done. This is because it originally was a rejected plot for Uncharted 2, a series that has it's roots in action/adventure movies, where Nathan Drake would try to avenge the death of Elena, which was then morphed into Joel being hunted down by Tess as a rejected pitch for the first game. You're supposed to see Abby sailing off in the end as a moment of greatness, because Abby is how Neil Druckmann originally wanted Joel to be, and was genuinely hoping people wanted more Abby. And there was no risk, *internally* they knew nobody liked Abby. Things got so bad that, according to Jason Schreier who investigated and asked ex-employees, employees were fired just for not liking Abby. Regardless of whether it was a good idea, he was going to shove down his rejected ideas onto an audience who genuinely thought they were going to get a sequel, not a failed comic author's do-over fanfiction of how he'd have done the first game, and hope the name alone would carry on a franchise centered around Abby. And that worked for those who are so ignorant of media that this is possibly their *first* exposure to "Maybe both sides are right" as a concept, but for people who've experienced the MANY deconstructionist fiction that came out circa 2016-2020, it failed. But if it was called Abby's Great Adventure, *nobody* would be pretending it was better written than it was. And this isn't hyperbole, because *this is the first you're hearing the author wrote A Second Chance at Sarah.* That's what brand association does for a bad writer.
One protagonist walks away with losing everything and her only connection to her father figure, while the other gets to run away and start a new life with no guilt or shame for her actions. This story is one-sided.
One of the most intense ,emotional games I've ever played... I've only played once but damn i was so exhausted mentally.... fantastic game just so memorable for many good reasons and a few bad ... but what an experience! Only the God of war norse games have done this for me !
100 % AGREED!! The first game was amazing, and this one was so much better!! it has now moved up to the best game I’ve ever played in my life! And that saying a lot, because I put it above GTA, SOCOM and Splinter Cell. I hope Naughty Dog is not influenced by all the people who dislike this game for, what I think was a petty reason. I really hope part 3 blows us all away even more. RESPECT! ✊🏾
@@OgDj2024 ah man, I forgot how much I loved socom as a kid. Thanks for the reminder💪🏼 Naughty Dog knew that this game would divide the fanbase so I doubt the backlash would affect them. They could definitely improve certain aspects but all in all i think they did good
I just finished this a couple of days ago. I had been waiting so long for it, but it dropping in the middle of a pandemic was unfortunate timing, and all the negativity surrounding it made me a bit scared to play it because Pt1 is one of my all-time fave games. I also knew it was going to be emotionally draining 😮💨 That said, since I finished it I can’t stop thinking about it. Having to play as the antagonist was a bold move, but once we saw why Abby wanted revenge I immediately gained sympathy for her. By the end I just wanted Ellie to walk away, there are and will be no winners anyway, and both had suffered enough. It surpasses gaming, or entertainment. It’s art. And people talkiing about agendas can get stuffed. Straight people (particularly men) are never seen as devices to further an agenda, or as mere tools of representation. The moment any such minority becomes a character you get idiots coming out of the woodwork screeching like clickers. Sexuality, gender, body build, none of these things seemed to be a point in and of themselves. They just happened to be part of the identities of the cast. If you can’t deal with it then stick to your average stories with run-of-the-mill characters, lord knows there’s enough of them. A lot of these people would have hated seeing fully-fledged black characters had they been born half a century ago.
Imagine of someone took the person you cared about the most in the world and they were going to be killed without your consent or without their consent. Would you walk away and let them murder them, or would you protect them with your life?
I don't have much of a leg to stand on here, I never played either game but heard great things about the first one. Seeing how the second one ended up, it killed my interest to ever play either game. Kind of like how Game of Thrones and Mass Effect went.
@@Kazanko28 well you’ll have to experience it for yourself to really understand what both parties are saying. To me the second game was great with a few flaws. To others it is garbage with nothing redeeming about it. Same with television shows: Many regard breaking bad as one of the best but I myself never really liked it. All come down to preference If your interest ever gets sparked again, I’d suggest waiting for a sale on the games. However, TLOU Part 1 was made as a stand alone story that only left the possibility for a sequel. So if you were to play only that one you’d still have a great gaming experience
Play them both in order. Of all games I have played, these are the best written, most filmic, best acted. The immersion is emotionally gripping. The level of backlash heat generated by the second game is a testament to the character and world-building of the first. I didn't think it was possible for the sequel to be better than the first, which skewered the player with its moral dilemma, but they did it. The sequel roots its theme in the player in a way no film can do. It's brilliant.
@ i’ve never heard of someone liking part 2 more than part 1, so that’s an interesting take. I enjoyed the story more of part 1 mainly because it was made as a standalone game. Part 2’s story is heavily reliant on part 1 otherwise it would’ve made a crap revenge scheme, which sounds so obvious as I am typing this out🤣 But part 2 has some story telling issues that could’ve been done differently. Still a great game
@@SaltyCinder For me TLOU took gaming to a filmic level that no other game has matched. No sandbox game can do it because side quests interrupt the narrative flow. It was brilliantly written and performed, and the ethical ambiguity at the end stayed with me for days. TLOU2 went beyond film with the identity schism playing both characters. The narrative wasn't as tight as the first, because time was needed to make the player empathise with Abbey. It's really two stories instead of one. But it was worth a sprawling narrative to have the existential experience that the sequel gave us. I am not aware of any film or other game that does this, or does this nearly as effectively. On a purely emotional level, the 2nd game took me further than the 1st, which was the most moving game experience I had ever had.
@ yeah Naughty Dog basically perfected the Interactive blockbuster experience. I would’ve like part 2 a HELL of a lot kore if they made Abby and Ellie’s stories grow to the climax together. For example: We play day 1 as Ellie and then hop into Abby on day 1 and so on… i think it would’ve made for a more satisfying build up to the climax. Because after Ellie the climax completely drops which felt a bit odd. It was still good though. But yeah, part 2 made me feel uncomfortable in a good way. In revenge driven video games it almost always comes with a power fantasy, like GoW and AC2. With part 2 it was grounded in a much more real story with real consequences that really amplified the emotional tug it had
Does this game deserve praise? No, it doesn't . The zombie game that deserves more praise is Days Gone . at least it has likeable characters and consistant lore I don't hate Part 2 , I am just really disappointed that they wrecked the story and literally killed the franchise Aside from killing Joel off in the most humiliating way and let's assume Joel died heroic death trying to defend himself , would that redeem the game? No because of these reason Number 1 : Agendas , this game is written based on Agendas Especially Feminism where Female characters except Leah take the lead and carry the story even when being literally pregnant like Mel who was a pregnant woman on the front lines and resisted aganist Ellie more than Owen who is literally twice her size and a man while male characters get one shotted like : Joel , Jesse , Tommy , Jordan , Manny , and Issac They all died in quick deaths without much resistance (Except Tommy) Number 2 : unlikeable side characters , let's face it The side characters in part 2 are nowhere iconic or entertaining as the side characters in Part 1 , In part 1 we had planty of iconic side characters like : Tess , Sam , Henry , Bill , Marlene , and Tommy We spend majority of the game with these characters and we actually feel the company while in part two , we either with terrible side characters like : Lev or Dina or we are completely on our own , I swear I felt so lonely playing Part 2 by myself with no meaningful side character to interact with Number 3 : The Terrible temporary open world Days Gone did such a good job at building an open world game with plenty of interactions and collectibles while Part 2 failed miserably and the map was mostly empy and boring It's a good they removed the open world plan from the final plan Number four : bringing real life conflicts and characters having no depth : The one I hate the most about the game is the scars believing in corrupted false religion and they were inspired by the real life conflict between Iseral and Palestine I honestly never seen anything pathetic as writing a corrupted religious cult with a female prophet like this is dumb and unnecessary , there's no religion in history had a female prophet I don't know where they got that idea The side characters don't have much depth like in the first gameplay and we only use the side characters in part 2 as tools rather than people Number five : Forcing certain beliefs The game is forcing LGBT , muscular , and pregnant women in strange ways , like I don't want to see a lesbian sex scene because its disgusting , I don't want to see Abby who looks like She-Hulk having sex with Owen I don't want to help a girl (Lev) who shaves her head because she wants to be boy and also gets her mother and sister killed Number six : Unsatisfying ending We didn't get the choice of killing Abby or not because, like most people , some of us didn't like Abby's story or Abby as a person and Naughty Dog denied us that choice Conclusion : The Last of us part 2 is praised by crtics and hated by players Days Gone is the opposite and it's crazy that people hate Decon because he is straight male or because he is lame despite being 10 times better than the Abby and Ellie combined Days Gone with smaller studio , lesser graphics , basic combat , less time in developing was able to outperform The Last Of Us Part 2 despite Part 2 being already established by the first game and anticipated by fans for years People wants to see Days Gone but nobody really cares about Part 3 since it was slap on the face to millions of fans If I want a dark story based on revenge then play God Of War 3 , play Assassin's Creed 2 , hell there's a roblox game called Entry Point has a better revenge plot than Part 2 combined despite being freaking lego game So don't say the game needs praise because it really doesn't Just sharing my opinion here
@@blackice7050 you bring up some good points. There are reasons for a lot of what was shown and what you refer to as “pushing”… and I think it could’ve been done differently, like the Sex scene with abby was meant to show her being vulnerable, but that could’ve easily been done with a dramatic dialogue scene for example. But I don’t think they killed the franchise and I don’t think that the agenda’s were meant to be the thing that players hyper focus on. I enjoyed the game a lot more than expected because I’ve heard the complaints before playing. There also isn’t anything wrong with female characters taking the lead, however I do agree in some scenes it doesn’t make a whole lot of sense like the encounter with mel and Ellie. But then again… Owen has lost the will to fight for the wolves and the friction between him and Mel could’ve played a part in why he didn’t attack Ellie on sight. Unlikeable side characters are very subjective though. I personally liked a few of them… i do however agree that part 1 is superior in this way Last thing I want to touch on: Playing other revenge driven games will not deliver to me what this game had delivered. That is the severity of consequences that will undoubtedly arise from taking actions such as in the game..: this game was meant to be dark and uncomfortable and it does that well Whether or not it was a good choice for the second game is up for debate. Could’ve been implemented in a third game where we had a build up to what part 2 was I enjoyed it and I’m glad I did
That comment made me laugh a lot, thank you. Truly, how could Naughty Dog force such otherworldly concepts like women and pregnancy down our throats, am I right? 😂
@@gabrielnogueira891 i think his problem was the contrast between male and female characters in this story. He is right that female character take the lead in this game. I just don’t think that it’s a bad thing when done correctly. Ellie for example is not some superhuman badass chick that gets everything right. She gets injured, she struggles, she runs out of breath and she breaks down when doing horrific shit. She is a strong lead character and there is nothing wrong about it. The pregnant thing is also something that he brought up with Mel being the prime example. She rushed Ellie and tried to take her down whilst being pregnant. Whereas Dina was left in bed resting because she couldn’t do all the physical shit Ellie was doing. But then again, dina was still risking her life and defending herself when necessary so I don’t think a pregnant lady trying to save herself and her baby is such an odd thing Also if Owen attacked first and died, Mel would’ve probably not tried doing the same and most likely would’ve gotten out of there just fine, which would have resulted in the story not having Ellie do something so terrible and wouldn’t have made the same impact
you know what you're talking about 🫡 i've been waiting to hear this type of take again (spoken out loud) for some time. yes, i understand and sympathize with those who did not enjoy this game, because where they come from is understandable, despite that they are not giving much effort to *be understanding* . but i empathize with this game, Naughtydog for all their unparalleled hard work and sheer bravery to be this bold and creative, and people like who you understood that this story's intentions. like you, i always find myself trapped in deep, almost meditative contemplation once the credits roll, all the way still the Santa Barbara beach appears. every. time. i actually just begun my 4th replay recently. everyone talks about what this story could have been, how it could have been paced better by revising the sequence of events and not making Joel's death so sudden (and working better on the execution of that scene so that it doesn't look so out of character for Joel to drop his guard after the events of Part 1). so i've heard. and i resonate on their criticisms because *i* myself have imagined... no, i have *fantasized* what it would take to make this story more enjoyable. i've written it out in my head. but that's the point. we would all make those changes if we wanted to make the story more enjoyable, yet this was NOT the point of this story. in this story, we, the player are *supposed* to be hit as suddenly and as helplessly as Ellie was when she watched Joel die without warning. that's why it happens so early in the game for us, because our feelings are not supposed to be seperated from Ellie's. we are supposed to feel enough ruthless hatred that we would kill any WLF and anyone who stands in our way in making Abby pay, just as much as Ellie does. that's why the game ramps up the gore factors compared to Part 1, so we can see the violence we produced by our relentless hatred. it means that if we, the player got so outraged that we wanted to smack (and for some people, send death threats to) the developers, that was literally the point of the story. so Naughtydog did, in fact, have to brace themselves weeks before the game was released. because outside the world of this video game, the player became Ellie, feeling every miserable feeling associated to Joel's sudden death, and Abby became Naughtydog, the one who wrote and enacted Joel's death so that our blame easily latches onto them. i could go on with examples of the empathetic alignments between the player and the protagonist, but that would make this comment longer than it already is. Part 1 spent more time to deliver themes like love, connection, finding purpose (namely between Joel and Ellie) as juxtapositions to the cruelty portrayed in the unforgiving world of the Last of Us. but Part 2 intentionally focused their structure to deliver themes like confusion, hatred, the cycle of violence, perspective, and forgiveness (beyond Ellie and Abby) that align perfectly to the cruelty portrayed in the unforgiving world of the Last of Us. if we, the player perceive the first game made us happier than the second, this is why.
@@marzzzuq i agree with everything you said here. Ellie was angry with Joel for 2 years after finding out that he had lied to her. Meaning that she only had about 3 years with him. Which is not a lot. I mean me and my best pal have been friends for 13 years and I feel like those years went by in a blink. So when she finally had decided to try and forgive him… he dies the next day. That feeling of loss is bad on its own but I believe regret was a big part of her hatred as well. Because of her lack of forgiveness it would cost her precious time she could have had with Joel. Which is why I believe she spared abby in the end. Not because she forgave her. But because Ellie realised that she could lose so much more if she held on to that anger and hatred, which already started as seen with Dina and JJ and Jesse. The moral line is blurred to an insane degree and the fact that we as the players were forced into that scenario, to really question if this violence is really justified, is truly, as you said, a bold move that Naughty Dog made and it’s exactly those type of decisions that put them above the rest in many instances. This game stuck with me for days after finishing it the first time. I’ve already replayed the first one a second time and busy with part 2 again for the second time. Yeah it’s REALLY emotionally taxing. But that’s the point. I love stories that affect me like this one did.
@@SaltyCinder oh yes, regret is a theme i forgot to mention. i agree with all that you said too, and i love stories that break me this hard, whether it is through delivering overwhelming positive or negative emotions. for a long time, i wondered why Naughty Dog didn't incorporate a choice system, where we could choose to spare or kill Abby (i wouldve spared Abby if anyone was wondering because by the end, i understood what the story was truly about). but typing this reply right now, it just hit me: if it were a choice by the player, no one would know what is *Ellie's* choice. in other words, we wouldn't know if Ellie *canonically* forgave Abby. but because there is no player input, we know with absolute certainty that it is the character who let go. and now that i realize that, i think i just uncovered a new layer of deep. no doubt, giving the player the power to choose for the first time in a Naughty Dog game would have been powerful, especially for that particular moment. but ultimately, we get to witness Ellie end the cycle not because we asked her to (believe me, when i played the game the first time, i got really, *really* scared and i was audibly muttering "Don't do this, Ellie. Don't make me do this. Abby spared you! This is wrong... I beg of you, end the cycle. Please"), but because she is a character who took a breath, felt the regret between herself and Joel, and did that herself.
@ couldn’t agree more Naughty Dog mastered putting us in the shoes of the characters we play as. And if the were to start making multi choice games where we as the player chooses the outcome, it will be a game that is focused on giving us a unique experience focused entirely on us. Which would be great. But for a story such as this. It couldn’t have worked if it wasn’t about the character we play as (as you pointed out) Hopefully if they get around to making a part 3, which is very possible, we will see a development in Ellie that has occurred BECAUSE of this story. Something that ties it all together and maybe give us some semblance of relief that maybe, just maybe, Ellie won’t end up alone after all. Which would be a nice touchZ But whatever they decide to do, I am certainly looking forward to it
I always hated, how much people disliked the story. They did something completely different and bold with the storyline and left players rooting for both sides at the end, which I think is really beautiful, as they show - just like you said - that both protagonists are "right" with what they are doing but also that there is basically no happy ending.
@@maxisendmeyer7675 I am very new to TLOU so I only heard about the hate when I looked into the game.
Naughty Dog took a very BIG risk with this story because they knew it would divide the fan base. And sure… some plot points are weird and the structure of story telling might be off putting to some. But overall it is still a good story.
Too many people IMO equate a good story to a happy story. No one wants to see their favourite protagonist die or not have the ending they feel the character deserves. TLOU P2 literally says “Screw it” and went all in on capitalising the horror of this world.
It’s these type of stories that draw me in: Peaky blinders did it, Game of Thrones did it, Breaking bad did it, shutter island did it and so on… they creature a experience that will shock you, amaze you, stun you and so much more, making it unforgettable
And I get that THAT type of story isn’t for everyone but it’s what made me enjoy this story so much
Yea TLOU 2 is great game
It wasn't different, in fact this is the bog standard template for just about all PG revenge stories since the 80's, the only difference is instead of the villain who does nothing to repent for what they've done falling off a cliff trying to stab the hero in the end, they sail off into the distance having learned nothing. Hell, if anything it's a *regression* of those stories because even in the 80's you had plenty of schlock like Traxx, a movie about a mass-murderer turned Cookie-maker, making fun of the concept that you could be nice to totally irrelevant strangers and it makes up for all the harm you've done.
This is because it originally was a rejected plot for Uncharted 2, a series that has it's roots in action/adventure movies, where Nathan Drake would try to avenge the death of Elena, which was then morphed into Joel being hunted down by Tess as a rejected pitch for the first game. You're supposed to see Abby sailing off in the end as a moment of greatness, because Abby is how Neil Druckmann originally wanted Joel to be, and was genuinely hoping people wanted more Abby.
And there was no risk, *internally* they knew nobody liked Abby. Things got so bad that, according to Jason Schreier who investigated and asked ex-employees, employees were fired just for not liking Abby. Regardless of whether it was a good idea, he was going to shove down his rejected ideas onto an audience who genuinely thought they were going to get a sequel, not a failed comic author's do-over fanfiction of how he'd have done the first game, and hope the name alone would carry on a franchise centered around Abby.
And that worked for those who are so ignorant of media that this is possibly their *first* exposure to "Maybe both sides are right" as a concept, but for people who've experienced the MANY deconstructionist fiction that came out circa 2016-2020, it failed. But if it was called Abby's Great Adventure, *nobody* would be pretending it was better written than it was.
And this isn't hyperbole, because *this is the first you're hearing the author wrote A Second Chance at Sarah.* That's what brand association does for a bad writer.
One protagonist walks away with losing everything and her only connection to her father figure, while the other gets to run away and start a new life with no guilt or shame for her actions. This story is one-sided.
One of the most intense ,emotional games I've ever played... I've only played once but damn i was so exhausted mentally.... fantastic game just so memorable for many good reasons and a few bad ... but what an experience! Only the God of war norse games have done this for me !
@@williamdavies7457 GoW is definitely up there with impactful and experiences. Still need to tackle ragnarok though🥴
100 % AGREED!!
The first game was amazing, and this one was so much better!! it has now moved up to the best game I’ve ever played in my life! And that saying a lot, because I put it above GTA, SOCOM and Splinter Cell.
I hope Naughty Dog is not influenced by all the people who dislike this game for, what I think was a petty reason. I really hope part 3 blows us all away even more.
RESPECT! ✊🏾
@@OgDj2024 ah man, I forgot how much I loved socom as a kid. Thanks for the reminder💪🏼
Naughty Dog knew that this game would divide the fanbase so I doubt the backlash would affect them.
They could definitely improve certain aspects but all in all i think they did good
The dread I felt for hours playing as Abbey, knowing that at some point I would confront Ellie in the theatre...
Oh yeah I know the feeling
I just finished this a couple of days ago. I had been waiting so long for it, but it dropping in the middle of a pandemic was unfortunate timing, and all the negativity surrounding it made me a bit scared to play it because Pt1 is one of my all-time fave games. I also knew it was going to be emotionally draining 😮💨
That said, since I finished it I can’t stop thinking about it. Having to play as the antagonist was a bold move, but once we saw why Abby wanted revenge I immediately gained sympathy for her. By the end I just wanted Ellie to walk away, there are and will be no winners anyway, and both had suffered enough.
It surpasses gaming, or entertainment. It’s art.
And people talkiing about agendas can get stuffed. Straight people (particularly men) are never seen as devices to further an agenda, or as mere tools of representation. The moment any such minority becomes a character you get idiots coming out of the woodwork screeching like clickers. Sexuality, gender, body build, none of these things seemed to be a point in and of themselves. They just happened to be part of the identities of the cast. If you can’t deal with it then stick to your average stories with run-of-the-mill characters, lord knows there’s enough of them. A lot of these people would have hated seeing fully-fledged black characters had they been born half a century ago.
Joel was the real villain
@@summerfire4775 I wouldn’t say villain. But he was definitely not the hero
Imagine of someone took the person you cared about the most in the world and they were going to be killed without your consent or without their consent. Would you walk away and let them murder them, or would you protect them with your life?
I don't have much of a leg to stand on here, I never played either game but heard great things about the first one. Seeing how the second one ended up, it killed my interest to ever play either game. Kind of like how Game of Thrones and Mass Effect went.
@@Kazanko28 well you’ll have to experience it for yourself to really understand what both parties are saying. To me the second game was great with a few flaws. To others it is garbage with nothing redeeming about it. Same with television shows: Many regard breaking bad as one of the best but I myself never really liked it. All come down to preference
If your interest ever gets sparked again, I’d suggest waiting for a sale on the games.
However, TLOU Part 1 was made as a stand alone story that only left the possibility for a sequel. So if you were to play only that one you’d still have a great gaming experience
Play them both in order. Of all games I have played, these are the best written, most filmic, best acted. The immersion is emotionally gripping. The level of backlash heat generated by the second game is a testament to the character and world-building of the first. I didn't think it was possible for the sequel to be better than the first, which skewered the player with its moral dilemma, but they did it. The sequel roots its theme in the player in a way no film can do. It's brilliant.
@ i’ve never heard of someone liking part 2 more than part 1, so that’s an interesting take.
I enjoyed the story more of part 1 mainly because it was made as a standalone game. Part 2’s story is heavily reliant on part 1 otherwise it would’ve made a crap revenge scheme, which sounds so obvious as I am typing this out🤣
But part 2 has some story telling issues that could’ve been done differently. Still a great game
@@SaltyCinder For me TLOU took gaming to a filmic level that no other game has matched. No sandbox game can do it because side quests interrupt the narrative flow. It was brilliantly written and performed, and the ethical ambiguity at the end stayed with me for days.
TLOU2 went beyond film with the identity schism playing both characters. The narrative wasn't as tight as the first, because time was needed to make the player empathise with Abbey. It's really two stories instead of one. But it was worth a sprawling narrative to have the existential experience that the sequel gave us. I am not aware of any film or other game that does this, or does this nearly as effectively.
On a purely emotional level, the 2nd game took me further than the 1st, which was the most moving game experience I had ever had.
@ yeah Naughty Dog basically perfected the Interactive blockbuster experience.
I would’ve like part 2 a HELL of a lot kore if they made Abby and Ellie’s stories grow to the climax together.
For example: We play day 1 as Ellie and then hop into Abby on day 1 and so on… i think it would’ve made for a more satisfying build up to the climax. Because after Ellie the climax completely drops which felt a bit odd. It was still good though.
But yeah, part 2 made me feel uncomfortable in a good way. In revenge driven video games it almost always comes with a power fantasy, like GoW and AC2. With part 2 it was grounded in a much more real story with real consequences that really amplified the emotional tug it had
I liked the story. Not as good as the first game but still fantastic and different. Hated abby at first but understood why she did what she did
The first one is a timeless masterpiece.
Does this game deserve praise?
No, it doesn't . The zombie game that deserves more praise is Days Gone . at least it has likeable characters and consistant lore
I don't hate Part 2 , I am just really disappointed that they wrecked the story and literally killed the franchise
Aside from killing Joel off in the most humiliating way and let's assume Joel died heroic death trying to defend himself , would that redeem the game?
No because of these reason
Number 1 : Agendas , this game is written based on Agendas
Especially Feminism where Female characters except Leah take the lead and carry the story even when being literally pregnant like Mel who was a pregnant woman on the front lines and resisted aganist Ellie more than Owen who is literally twice her size and a man while male characters get one shotted like : Joel , Jesse , Tommy , Jordan , Manny , and Issac
They all died in quick deaths without much resistance (Except Tommy)
Number 2 : unlikeable side characters , let's face it
The side characters in part 2 are nowhere iconic or entertaining as the side characters in Part 1 , In part 1 we had planty of iconic side characters like : Tess , Sam , Henry , Bill , Marlene , and Tommy
We spend majority of the game with these characters and we actually feel the company while in part two , we either with terrible side characters like : Lev or Dina or we are completely on our own , I swear I felt so lonely playing Part 2 by myself with no meaningful side character to interact with
Number 3 : The Terrible temporary open world
Days Gone did such a good job at building an open world game with plenty of interactions and collectibles while Part 2 failed miserably and the map was mostly empy and boring
It's a good they removed the open world plan from the final plan
Number four : bringing real life conflicts and characters having no depth :
The one I hate the most about the game is the scars believing in corrupted false religion and they were inspired by the real life conflict between Iseral and Palestine
I honestly never seen anything pathetic as writing a corrupted religious cult with a female prophet like this is dumb and unnecessary , there's no religion in history had a female prophet
I don't know where they got that idea
The side characters don't have much depth like in the first gameplay and we only use the side characters in part 2 as tools rather than people
Number five :
Forcing certain beliefs
The game is forcing LGBT , muscular , and pregnant women in strange ways , like I don't want to see a lesbian sex scene because its disgusting , I don't want to see Abby who looks like She-Hulk having sex with Owen
I don't want to help a girl (Lev) who shaves her head because she wants to be boy and also gets her mother and sister killed
Number six :
Unsatisfying ending
We didn't get the choice of killing Abby or not because, like most people , some of us didn't like Abby's story or Abby as a person and Naughty Dog denied us that choice
Conclusion :
The Last of us part 2 is praised by crtics and hated by players
Days Gone is the opposite and it's crazy that people hate Decon because he is straight male or because he is lame despite being 10 times better than the Abby and Ellie combined
Days Gone with smaller studio , lesser graphics , basic combat , less time in developing was able to outperform The Last Of Us Part 2 despite Part 2 being already established by the first game and anticipated by fans for years
People wants to see Days Gone but nobody really cares about Part 3 since it was slap on the face to millions of fans
If I want a dark story based on revenge then play God Of War 3 , play Assassin's Creed 2 , hell there's a roblox game called Entry Point has a better revenge plot than Part 2 combined despite being freaking lego game
So don't say the game needs praise because it really doesn't
Just sharing my opinion here
@@blackice7050 you bring up some good points. There are reasons for a lot of what was shown and what you refer to as “pushing”… and I think it could’ve been done differently, like the Sex scene with abby was meant to show her being vulnerable, but that could’ve easily been done with a dramatic dialogue scene for example.
But I don’t think they killed the franchise and I don’t think that the agenda’s were meant to be the thing that players hyper focus on.
I enjoyed the game a lot more than expected because I’ve heard the complaints before playing.
There also isn’t anything wrong with female characters taking the lead, however I do agree in some scenes it doesn’t make a whole lot of sense like the encounter with mel and Ellie. But then again… Owen has lost the will to fight for the wolves and the friction between him and Mel could’ve played a part in why he didn’t attack Ellie on sight.
Unlikeable side characters are very subjective though. I personally liked a few of them… i do however agree that part 1 is superior in this way
Last thing I want to touch on: Playing other revenge driven games will not deliver to me what this game had delivered. That is the severity of consequences that will undoubtedly arise from taking actions such as in the game..: this game was meant to be dark and uncomfortable and it does that well
Whether or not it was a good choice for the second game is up for debate. Could’ve been implemented in a third game where we had a build up to what part 2 was
I enjoyed it and I’m glad I did
That comment made me laugh a lot, thank you. Truly, how could Naughty Dog force such otherworldly concepts like women and pregnancy down our throats, am I right? 😂
@@gabrielnogueira891 i think his problem was the contrast between male and female characters in this story. He is right that female character take the lead in this game. I just don’t think that it’s a bad thing when done correctly. Ellie for example is not some superhuman badass chick that gets everything right. She gets injured, she struggles, she runs out of breath and she breaks down when doing horrific shit. She is a strong lead character and there is nothing wrong about it.
The pregnant thing is also something that he brought up with Mel being the prime example. She rushed Ellie and tried to take her down whilst being pregnant. Whereas Dina was left in bed resting because she couldn’t do all the physical shit Ellie was doing. But then again, dina was still risking her life and defending herself when necessary so I don’t think a pregnant lady trying to save herself and her baby is such an odd thing
Also if Owen attacked first and died, Mel would’ve probably not tried doing the same and most likely would’ve gotten out of there just fine, which would have resulted in the story not having Ellie do something so terrible and wouldn’t have made the same impact
You have the emotional intelligence of a 6 year old boy
Days Gone genuinely has some of the worst dialogue I have ever heard in a game.
The story sucks gng
@@kanishk.r8882 to each his own
I liked it a lot and so did many other people
you know what you're talking about 🫡 i've been waiting to hear this type of take again (spoken out loud) for some time. yes, i understand and sympathize with those who did not enjoy this game, because where they come from is understandable, despite that they are not giving much effort to *be understanding* . but i empathize with this game, Naughtydog for all their unparalleled hard work and sheer bravery to be this bold and creative, and people like who you understood that this story's intentions. like you, i always find myself trapped in deep, almost meditative contemplation once the credits roll, all the way still the Santa Barbara beach appears. every. time. i actually just begun my 4th replay recently.
everyone talks about what this story could have been, how it could have been paced better by revising the sequence of events and not making Joel's death so sudden (and working better on the execution of that scene so that it doesn't look so out of character for Joel to drop his guard after the events of Part 1). so i've heard. and i resonate on their criticisms because *i* myself have imagined... no, i have *fantasized* what it would take to make this story more enjoyable. i've written it out in my head. but that's the point. we would all make those changes if we wanted to make the story more enjoyable, yet this was NOT the point of this story. in this story, we, the player are *supposed* to be hit as suddenly and as helplessly as Ellie was when she watched Joel die without warning. that's why it happens so early in the game for us, because our feelings are not supposed to be seperated from Ellie's. we are supposed to feel enough ruthless hatred that we would kill any WLF and anyone who stands in our way in making Abby pay, just as much as Ellie does. that's why the game ramps up the gore factors compared to Part 1, so we can see the violence we produced by our relentless hatred.
it means that if we, the player got so outraged that we wanted to smack (and for some people, send death threats to) the developers, that was literally the point of the story. so Naughtydog did, in fact, have to brace themselves weeks before the game was released. because outside the world of this video game, the player became Ellie, feeling every miserable feeling associated to Joel's sudden death, and Abby became Naughtydog, the one who wrote and enacted Joel's death so that our blame easily latches onto them. i could go on with examples of the empathetic alignments between the player and the protagonist, but that would make this comment longer than it already is.
Part 1 spent more time to deliver themes like love, connection, finding purpose (namely between Joel and Ellie) as juxtapositions to the cruelty portrayed in the unforgiving world of the Last of Us. but Part 2 intentionally focused their structure to deliver themes like confusion, hatred, the cycle of violence, perspective, and forgiveness (beyond Ellie and Abby) that align perfectly to the cruelty portrayed in the unforgiving world of the Last of Us. if we, the player perceive the first game made us happier than the second, this is why.
@@marzzzuq i agree with everything you said here.
Ellie was angry with Joel for 2 years after finding out that he had lied to her. Meaning that she only had about 3 years with him. Which is not a lot. I mean me and my best pal have been friends for 13 years and I feel like those years went by in a blink. So when she finally had decided to try and forgive him… he dies the next day.
That feeling of loss is bad on its own but I believe regret was a big part of her hatred as well. Because of her lack of forgiveness it would cost her precious time she could have had with Joel.
Which is why I believe she spared abby in the end. Not because she forgave her. But because Ellie realised that she could lose so much more if she held on to that anger and hatred, which already started as seen with Dina and JJ and Jesse.
The moral line is blurred to an insane degree and the fact that we as the players were forced into that scenario, to really question if this violence is really justified, is truly, as you said, a bold move that Naughty Dog made and it’s exactly those type of decisions that put them above the rest in many instances.
This game stuck with me for days after finishing it the first time. I’ve already replayed the first one a second time and busy with part 2 again for the second time.
Yeah it’s REALLY emotionally taxing. But that’s the point. I love stories that affect me like this one did.
@@SaltyCinder oh yes, regret is a theme i forgot to mention. i agree with all that you said too, and i love stories that break me this hard, whether it is through delivering overwhelming positive or negative emotions.
for a long time, i wondered why Naughty Dog didn't incorporate a choice system, where we could choose to spare or kill Abby (i wouldve spared Abby if anyone was wondering because by the end, i understood what the story was truly about). but typing this reply right now, it just hit me: if it were a choice by the player, no one would know what is *Ellie's* choice. in other words, we wouldn't know if Ellie *canonically* forgave Abby. but because there is no player input, we know with absolute certainty that it is the character who let go.
and now that i realize that, i think i just uncovered a new layer of deep. no doubt, giving the player the power to choose for the first time in a Naughty Dog game would have been powerful, especially for that particular moment. but ultimately, we get to witness Ellie end the cycle not because we asked her to (believe me, when i played the game the first time, i got really, *really* scared and i was audibly muttering "Don't do this, Ellie. Don't make me do this. Abby spared you! This is wrong... I beg of you, end the cycle. Please"), but because she is a character who took a breath, felt the regret between herself and Joel, and did that herself.
@ couldn’t agree more
Naughty Dog mastered putting us in the shoes of the characters we play as. And if the were to start making multi choice games where we as the player chooses the outcome, it will be a game that is focused on giving us a unique experience focused entirely on us. Which would be great.
But for a story such as this. It couldn’t have worked if it wasn’t about the character we play as (as you pointed out)
Hopefully if they get around to making a part 3, which is very possible, we will see a development in Ellie that has occurred BECAUSE of this story. Something that ties it all together and maybe give us some semblance of relief that maybe, just maybe, Ellie won’t end up alone after all. Which would be a nice touchZ
But whatever they decide to do, I am certainly looking forward to it