For the whole of DAO and 2 you see Flemeth as a very enigmatic and possibly nefarious character. Then in Inquisition you *and Morrigan* learn the truth behind who she is and what her goals are. I saw that as a pretty clear reveal that she is not in fact an evil character as we were made to believe. To have them just reverse course on that and make her evil now would be really strange to me.
I agree. I think Morrigan has pretty clearly become the new vessel of Mythal, but I don't think it's a nefarious possession. I am also pretty confident that Andraste was a previous vessel, and Fen'Harel is the maker.
@@quinnbrentson151 Nah I think Solas absorbed Mythal from Flemeth, that's how he became so powerful so fast, like he regained his strength, the one he was missing. I think Flemeth did send her immortality over to Morrigan through the Eluvian.
@@7PlayingWithFire7 It could be, but wouldn't Flemeth only be immortal because of Mythal? It feels as if - let's say Solas is the Maker - that his "bride" was the original Flemeth that he elevated to godhood by giving a part of Mythal's soul to. And yeah, as you say, he basically takes back Mythal from Flemeth in Inquisition so now Flemeth is either dead or just a normal mortal again. But maybe through some trickery, Flemeth knew this would happen and sent something of Mythal to Morrigan as a backup. Though who knows? Almost anything could happen. I can't wait to find out.
I dunno, I don't believe her reveal in Inquisition made her seem "good" at all. For instance, she is still demanding a vessel from either Morrigan or Kieran. That's not very benevolent-sounding to me. She doesn't sound evil, either, I think she is even more mysterious than before, and I think it's best to continue approaching her character and motivations with skepticism.
Oh my gosh, could you imagine seeing your inquisitor come down that stairs with Mythals head piece instead of Morrigan, if you chose to let them drink the Well in Inquisition 😮
The thought of The Old Tevinter Gods (who take the shape of dragons), being peices of Mytal, the goddess who can shape shift into a DRAGON, is so blindingly in your face I cannot believe i dosnt think of it before. Hiding in plain sight.
My theory has always been that. Mythal was the strongest of the elven gods. She struck down the titans and some of them had such resentment that it turn their blood(lyrium) into a rage filled powered up version which causes the blight. Andruil found the red lyrium and brought it back from the void and Mythal saw it as a sickness so she had to separate it from him and seal it away, but the other gods saw how much stronger the blight made Andruil in his fight with Mythal, so they teamed up and betrayed her to access that power, then Solas to save the people put up the veil. What the other gods didn't know is Mythal had pulled a batman and had a contingency plan and bound the blight somewhat to her will so she could exercise control over it just incase...which leads us here...Also each of the elven gods have their dragons that are linked to them which happen to be the old gods and archdemons. I would honestly love to hear any thoughts on this, and I definitely enjoyed your thoughts Jackdaw, also I thought of you when p,aging assassins creed black flag, I'm so glad DA is back its one of the most lore filled games that I've played besides elder scrolls!
Haven't finished watching yet but I've had this theory for a while. Also, I feel like Solas puts her on a pedestal but I feel like she manipulates him into that sort of position. There's this possibility that she made (aka coerced or convinced) solas to take physical form even tho he didn't want to. And for some reason he thought she was "the best of them" despite some of the... not very nice things she did. In a way I feel like she manipulated him as she has manipulated Morrigan. She hardened Morrigan, was awful to her in her upbringing, yet somehow still made her feel a sense of affection and left the feeling that the pain was necessary. It's abusive and manipulative. Why would Morrigan have been the only one? If she made Solas become a "person", like Inky and Varric do to Cole, in a sense she was the one to teach him everything about the world, thus in a way was a mother to him. We see this sort of relationship with Cole/Varric. Now imagine that instead of Varric you got Flameth. No wonder Solas is so cunning... so is Flameth. He learned it from her. Just because she's "the best of them", doesn't mean she's good. They were awful and she is still one of them. And if she was not bad before, if she before she represented Justice now she's definitely made it clear she's Vengeance. Similar to Ander's Justice/Vengeance.
From my point of view, I feel like Mythal could either be a twist villain in the after credits scene as she possess a new body, she could be a penultimate boss before facing the final boss which is the All Father or she could be the final boss of the game after the All Father is slain.
With the spoilers from the previews from a few days ago I think it is clear that Ghilan'nain controls the blight and it was also she, along with the Evanuris, who released the blight to Thedas when the magisters entered to their now black city
I don't think Mythal is going to be a Big Bad, at least no more a big bad than Solas himself. While she's always had her secrets and ulterior motives, I've never really seen her as a villain in any of the games: In Origins, if she didn't directly intervene, the Fifth Blight would have completely overwhelmed Ferelden, if not also Orlais. If she didn't intervene to help Hawke escape to Kirkwall, so many more things could have gone wrong.
Elves created the Blight. She's trying to repent for her sins of killing the Titans. The Well of Sorrows calks to people, he's linking the Blight to the well in this video unfairly. She also took Kieran's soul because she knew Solas was going to betray her, so she used the soul as a contingency. Jackdaw also doesn't cover that the Dwarves have spirits and demons independent of the veil/fade as we saw with Rock Wraiths, Ortan ghosts, Gangue, and Caridin's Spirit Spitter head traps.
I mean, she interfered, because she needed the world to survive, so she can fulfill her plans. I don't think she is a villain per se, but we have seen in the Inquisition hints of her madness, because of the need for the vengeance. As well as we've seen Solas succumbing to his darkness in the spoilers for the Veilguard, which I won't mention in case.
My friend and I were talking about this just tonight with all the Veilguard stuff. We are also finishing up our Inquisition playthroughs and I think Mythal is the real danger at the end....she was betrayed, she was wiped out (cannot say certain words on YT) and I imagine, she harbours a need for vengeance. I am also concerned that Mythal is riding Morrigan if she drank from the Well....what does this mean for our Inquisitor if he/she drank from the Well???? Mythal has been very good at putting all the pawns in place on the board through the 3 games so far, even with regards to our Warden putting a King and Queen on the throne etc....A King who owes her....Alistair. We have countless knights through companions, factions who all owe something to the main characters in the games who, coincidentally, have all met Mythal, who guided them on their journeys. It is funny how our character in Veilguard is Rook....another playing piece in chess.....I am so on board with the Mythal theories!
It's heavily implied that Flemeth/Mythal transferred some of her power to Morrigan using the Eluvian in Inquisition while Solas absorbed the rest. If Mythal is involved in this game, it'll be through Morrigan, but stuff like fighting her or her being a huge core to the story? Yeah, that's not gonna happen, the focus is quite clearly on the Veilguard themselves, Solas and the 2 Evanuris that managed to escape thanks to us. That anger we keep hearing is coming almost entirely from FLEMETH, not Mythal and clearly Mythal herself has little-to-no anger since she actively allowed Solas to kill her and take her powers. This theory doesn't work once one actively pays attention to Flemeth and Mythal, especially in Inquisition where it's very clear that Flemeth is leaving things in Morrigan's hands [even sending something, most likely the Old God's soul, through an Eluvian, almost certainly for Morrigan] and accepting her passing by just giving Solas her powers, even if it means she and her host Flemeth would die.
Her turning to a serpent to take it might be particularly telling, good vid, hadn't thought of much of this regarding Mythal. In honesty though, her lines always seemed, idk, malevolent and I could never place it.
Even before DAV was announced, I'm still on board with this theory! If I remember correctly, there's supposed to be 5 games to the DA series and what better way to finish it off than fight none other than Mythal? Plus, I'll never believe Solas as a true antagonist, especially since we have other ancient elven gods to deal with. Amazing video as always, Jack! Can't wait to see more!
There's a ton of ways to finish the Dragon Age series than fighting someone we've barely heard about and is almost purely a mystery. We had AN ENTIRE GAME setting up Solas as the real antagonist as he's trying to destroy the Veil.
@@AzureRoxe Mythal, also known as Flemeth, has been around since the very first Dragon Age game and has always been a curiosity. Ever since the beginning, she has been plotting, she's said things which we don't understand, which makes people question and remember. It's only natural for those who believe in this theory to want it to happen. If you don't agree, that's fine, you don't have to, but I'd recommend you rewatch Jack's video and look up some more info about her yourself. Everything about her is very interesting! Solas can *look* like he's the antagonist at the beginning, but roles can change as the story progresses. We didn't even know Solas was a potential antagonist until Corypheus was defeated, who was the actual antagonist of DAI.
@@OfficiallyJewls Mythal is not "also known as Flemeth". Just like Solas mentioned about him and the Dreadwolf, Flemeth was a person that Mythal eventually found. The person who needs to look up more info isn't me, it's you and Jackdaw cause he does some very stupid connections here that even a slight glance at Inquisition's lore would disprove like when he links the Blight to the Well of Sorrows. Implying that Mythal will have ANYTHING to do in Veilguard is stupid when we flatout see her send the Old God Soul through the Eluvian and then allows Solas to absorb her powers, SHE IS DEAD.
@@AzureRoxe Exactly, Mythal found Flemeth, but we have no idea when this happened, but it's presumed it's a very long time ago as she says multiple times "I'm a very old woman." Her and Mythal are one. Flemeth isn't dead. If you've played Origins enough, you'd know there's an option to kill Flemeth for Morrigan. Then she comes back at the beginning of DA2. We see at the end of DAI her touching an eluvian, suposedly sending something through it, but we don't know what. She could've sent multiple things through at one, like the Old Gods soul you mentioned and perhaps another part of her life force. We know that the Blight is organic. It's very possible it can connect to the Well of Sorrows since there's nothing saying that it can't. It's true, we don't know if Mythal will be involved in Veilguard, but there's a very high likelyhood she will be since this game will go heavily into the elven gods. There's also no need to be rude to me or Jackdaw by calling both of us stupid. We're both just theorising, which is what this video is. If you get mad at things like this, then maybe you should find another place to talk about it.
I really like the theory that the inquisition could become the next vessel, which could be why Bioware, among all their big reveals already, have been very hush hush about the role of the inquisitor, beyond the fact that they show up in Veilguard. You might be onto something there.
Hey Jackdaw another great video!! I'd like to add something I haven't seen anyone anywhere talk about it may even add to Mythal being the grand villain. We know that the Evanuris are blighted, sadistic and tyrannical rulers. However their history as seen by the dalish elves depicts them as good and benevolent rulers and Solas as the evil god as an example of their propaganda. Keeping that in mind, the other god that was deemed a threat collectively by the Evanuris for a time was Andruil. They put her down in their version of history as corrupted, engulfed by madness and howling things meant to be forgotten every time she came back from the void. So since its all propaganda. What if she went into the void got cleansed somehow from the blight either by the Forgotten ones or something else and returned to the surface so she can cleanse and free her fellow Evanuris, or maybe even just for Ghilan'nain if they were actually lovers, and the people from their blighted gods time and time again and each time she would get defeated and blighted again. Until Mythal herself stepped in personally to take her down and take her memories of the void from her. Thus ending the threat to the rule of the Evanuris. Maybe Mythal then spread the blight into the void since she gained the knowledge how to get there and created the darkspawn with ironically Ghilan'nain possibly the one Andruil wanted to save the most. It would make for a very sad love story for them. I hope you read this if you did thanks a lot it would be amazing to get your thoughts on it :) #FirstWardenAndruil cuz why not XD Damn that leads to another one :)
Here's another theory. Mythal used the taint she drew from Andrul and used it against one of the Titans, creating corrupted lyrium, which created the Blight. But she only used it to kill one Titan, and that's the blighted one we'll see in the game.
I think this might be my favorite video you have ever made! Your tinfoiling is the finest on the platform! 👏 I would absolutely love it if the Inky became a Vessel of Mythal! Imagine Solas having to confront Mythal in Lavellan's form. Chef's kiss tragedy right there!!!
i feel like it’s not discussed enough in canon that Mythal has a well that literally removes your free will. i feel like someone needs to have that discussion in Veilguard, especially with Solas. because Solas idealizes Mythal so much and, while interesting, is extremely irritating to me. 💀
While Solas is proponent of free will he already does and say things that contradict that in the spoilers for the Veilguard. I won't go deeper into that, since people may want to avoid spoilers
Jack, I'm absolutely giddy you've made this video! I can't stop thinking about the Well of Sorrows consequences with my current Inquisition play through... 👀
If nothing else, I do not want Veilguard to end with another big antagonist cliffhanger. We got that in Inquisition with Trespasser and had to wait a decade for any sort of meaningful closure. I'm all for writers leaving some threads unfinished if they want to give themselves options for a potential sequel, but I really, really want this game to end with a true and genuine sense of conclusion for the main thrust of the plot. Having the resolution spoiled a second time in a row by the revelation that none of it matters because the real big bad is standing right over there, actually, would leave me feeling bitterly disappointed.
The wisp of Mythal was not part of the greater being that may of been corrupted. You also assume it was not the events with Andruil that may of cause Mythal to be corrupted to begin with in her attempt to save her people from Andruil's corruption. Remember it was Andruil that started it all. It could very well been inflicted upon Mythal not done by her. I do not see Mythal as the big bad, but the ones we will be fighting in Veilguard. I am looking forward to seeing the truth and not some tinfoil theory's! :) Solas looks to restore the world, Mythal seeks to get vengeance on those who betrayed her and the world itself. The answer to the blight is way bigger than we know. I don't think Morrigan who has been fighting Mythal would suddenly agree to it. Only if she drank from the well would that possibly has occurred. Mythal needs a willing host not one that does not want it.
@@AceOvrZerobut at the same time, the events are back to back because of a series of events. the blight led to hawke going to kirkwall which led to corypheous which led to inquisition which leads to a rushed timeline for solas which leads to the veilguard which leads to whatever is next. think about how many crazy things have happened irl in the past 50 years compared to the hundreds of years before that.
There is DEFINITELY another antagonist in this upcoming game, because they are giving away a lot of story details in the runup to the game's release, and they would not be this forthcoming if there was not some huge stuff in the background.
Are you gonna be making a video on the world state choices? I wouuld like to see someone talk about how different the game could still feel with this disappointing reveal because rn, my hype is dead in the water lol
I think Bioware would be fools not to do this. Having all of the previous heroes return (as long as they are alive), at least in the final battle, would be the most epic finale of all time.
Ooh this theory is good 😱!! I’ve always wondered why she’s been in every one of the games so far and usually somewhere close to the blight too. Cannot wait to play DAV 🥹😱🥳 my nerdy brain needs answers to all these theories 😅
Honestly mythal/flemeth returning would be iconic in any capacity. I fear the chance of this is low seeing how she ended up in the ending of DAI, but seeing and hearing her voice again, whether she’s a benevolent or malevolent entity, would be glorious to behold.
For the longest time most everyone thought the old gods and the evanuris were different. I finally feel vindicated for all the ridicule I took since origins! 😆
I think Mythal isn't the big bad. Her zapping strength of Andruil seemed to be means of an end. Andruil knew very well it is unwise to hunt the Forbidden ones, yet in her addiction to hunt she knew no limits. As for Kieran, original plan was for Flemeth to take Kieran away towards his destiny, and only Morrigan begging changed that. Flemeth took away 'destiny' so Kieran would be just a fairly normal child. I do feel Mythal is connected with Blight as the elven dialect if Inquisitor is the one to drink Well of Sorrows went like "Mythal speaks the Blight". We also know Blight originated in Black City. I suspect Mythal was murdered in Black City and the murder eventually spread blight. It could be that Mythal kept in herself blight from Andruil's 'madness'. We know Mythal is highly associated with dragons, and we also know normal dragons are not exactly immune to blight but highly resistant. They keep blight 'blocked' in their organism. If Mythal is akin to a dragon, as all her depictions seem to imply, she would have held blight within her for as long as she lives. Welp .. they murdered her, thus releasing blight back. Mythal by all means sounds pragmatic and determined. We also know there was speculated 8 Old God, one that was forgotten and associated with Draconis constellation. Who else could it be, if not Mythal ? Striken from memory because she wasn't there anymore. I feel like Titans are more likely to be hidden villain all along. After titans had to do something to make Evanuris go this far to end them. Perhaps Titans were subjecting way more then just dwarves to their needs. We've seen how obsessed Sha-Brytol were for just ONE titan, and we know how addictive and dangerous lyrium is.
If Mythal speaks the calling then perhaps when she killed a Titan she deliberately unleashed the blight. Could that be why the Evanuris murdered her? Had she attempted to use the Blight as a weapon against the Elven Gods?
I'm sure when the final Dragon Age game comes whenever that may be, Flemeth/Mythal will ultimately be the final villain to be defeated, and I'm betting Kieran (or his soul) will play a big part in how that goes down.
God, i hope not (answering thumbnail, watching vid after comment 😅). For all intents and purposes, Morrigan is the new avatar of Mythal. My elven mage warden loves Morrigan, followed her through the eluvian in witchhunt, stayed with morrigan and his son until he went looking for a cure for the joining but still staying in love and contact with Morrigan ( Morrigan still very much loves him in Inquisition). I'm actually hoping to find out more about what happened to HoF from Morrigan in Veilguard ( I'm hoping that her embracing her destiny as mythal's host or avatar doesn't mean she ditches Derion (my elven warden). Damn i loved playing him, i built him as a Pillar of Reality mage (heavy investment in willpower, over 100, magic around 60 and just enough cunning to get all 4 coercion and just basically getting specific sustains like the arcane warrior ones miasma,lifedrain one from battlemage and a few others totaling like 7-10 permanent sustains. Very lyrium potion dependant build). He never went down even when the rest of the team did, i basically soloed Nightmare Harvester with him in golems of amgarrak
Its very similar to nordic lore... so im actually guessing that Solas(loki) and Mithal(gullveig or freya?) Actually tried to save the gods and the humans hut accidently fucked up... which made them have to make the veil. A sort of ragnaok-esk synario
I mean they tried to soften her through Solas, but she's still an Evanuris with her own Vallaslin and as a result still had her own slaves even into the present for influence, not to mention the Well of Sorrows. There's definitely something they haven't quite reconciled yet in terms of their history.
All of the old gods being fragments of Mythal would also explain why they are usually all depicted as dragons, as she has such heavy dragon iconography as well. Flemeth always seems like she was in the right place at the right time, which for that to happen across three different games and in-universe years of time is extremely suspicious. Big bad? Maybe. I could see that. All I know for sure is that she definitely is up to something.
One thing I noticed, many years ago, thankx to Ghil Dirthalen, the red lyrium acts much in the same way as a disease does. Red lyrium moves quickly in warm, or hot temperatures, but moves slowly, or not at all, in cold temperatures. Diseases also act that way in the same temperatures. It the reason why hospitals keep their O.R.s cold. It helps to prevent the germs that cause diseases from spreading in there.
Solas and mythal were the only "gods" (who were just elven mages) that disapproved of how the other "gods" treated and enslaved elves and thats what got the rest of them locked up in the end.
This is my "pet theory" because i find Mythal and Flemeth interesting the older i got. I personally think what happened to Justice and Anders happened to Mythal and Flemeth. They are not two entities any more. Mythal is not Mythal. She has not been in many ages. Whatever she was before she is vengeful now her lines in DA2 indicate that. Perhaps it was Mythal the warped Flemeth or they were the true end game of "I can make them worse" relationships. It's a bit of of ramble lol
VEILGUARD SPOILER WARNING!!! So in the mission at Weisshaupt Ghilan’nain calls the archdemon she’s using the “finest child of the gods” and her “greatest creation.” And “Rook mentions she can’t die until the Archdemon is dead and so I’m think they’re like Corephyus’ dragon in inquisition for the elven gods. Pets that offer them immortality.
I'm curious who has the inquisitor drink from the well as their Canon state. I always have my elf's drink, which is most of them, and it paid off in trespasser. Let's see what 10 years later brings, but I'm very curious, probably the choice I most want to see play out.
It seems that we don't get to choose who drank from the well, as well as we don't get to choose anything from DAO and DA2 which is just baffling. If it turns out Morrigan is possessed my Mythal, it's gonna be one trash of a twist, especially since you can't choose who drank from the well and given that Flemeth states you can't force it. Something tells me we will be left with a lot of unanswered questions. I was really looking forward to learning if HoF managed to cure the Calling, but it seems like this whole plotline will be dropped and forgotten like Hof and GoB never existed. I really hope tho that Mythal will play a big role in this or be a big bad in some way, because I find Solas utterly uninteresting. Everyone says he isn't a typical villain because of some supposed grey morality, but his actions are pretty black & white, there is nothing complex about him. He is like some idiot who want to revert the industrial revolution, because back in his day people were closer to nature.
Mythal ultimately wants to restore herself as Thedas sole ruler under a new Elven empire, I think she knows how to rescind the blight with blood magic and opposed the other gods attempt to control the world with it. She was killed for that reason and wants revenge against the rest of the pantheon except for Solas. Mythal genuinely believes herself to know best than anybody else and that everyone is better under her control than enslaved by the other Evanuris or running around aimlessly like Solas want them in freedom. This is a key difference between her and Solas, while Solas ultimately wants a new Elven empire without gods or slaves, Mythal wants everyone obeying her as absolute god queen.
I don't think shes bad, but I bet she isn't happy, That her family pretty much killed her because she was trying to keep them on a straight path. As I've said before, and I saw something that seems to prove my theory correct. I bet the others was experimenting with the blight and lyrium and when Mythal found out, she got them altogether to try and stop them from using it. Instead they just killed her. So, Mythal, isn't probably the happiest person right now.
Maybe you know more than us but as far as I can tell the 'world state' import is quite pathetic and there's no mention of the Well of Sorrows. Maybe the Well of Sorrows was the choices we made along the way 🤷♂️
I've always thought that we're only getting one side of history regarding the elven gods. People who like Solas believe everything he says, even though he clearly betrayed us and lied to us the entire game. Surely, the elven gods are corrupted, but could that not have been because of Solas' imprisonment of them?? Andruil learned something she shouldn't have in the void and Mythal took her memories. What is she hiding?
You all just can’t resist can you? Stop wasting energy hating on something you won’t play and go play what you like. And I’m pretty sure this game is going to do a whole lot better than you culture war tourists assume.
@@maiafay It has significantly less pre orders than star wars outlaws whose low sales tanked ubisoft stocks and has the entire publishing company on the verge of shutting down. You are coping.
@@nicofash6366it’s been climbing pretty steadily. And I think it’ll be just fine once it releases and people can see it for themselves rather than rage bait crying over every little thing.
I really don't think Morrigan is possessed, I think she is wearing the headpiece to show her power, to show her growth, that she has taken over her mom's mortal role and intends to surpass her not that she is Mythal.
For the whole of DAO and 2 you see Flemeth as a very enigmatic and possibly nefarious character. Then in Inquisition you *and Morrigan* learn the truth behind who she is and what her goals are. I saw that as a pretty clear reveal that she is not in fact an evil character as we were made to believe. To have them just reverse course on that and make her evil now would be really strange to me.
I agree. I think Morrigan has pretty clearly become the new vessel of Mythal, but I don't think it's a nefarious possession. I am also pretty confident that Andraste was a previous vessel, and Fen'Harel is the maker.
@@quinnbrentson151 Nah I think Solas absorbed Mythal from Flemeth, that's how he became so powerful so fast, like he regained his strength, the one he was missing. I think Flemeth did send her immortality over to Morrigan through the Eluvian.
@@7PlayingWithFire7 It could be, but wouldn't Flemeth only be immortal because of Mythal? It feels as if - let's say Solas is the Maker - that his "bride" was the original Flemeth that he elevated to godhood by giving a part of Mythal's soul to. And yeah, as you say, he basically takes back Mythal from Flemeth in Inquisition so now Flemeth is either dead or just a normal mortal again. But maybe through some trickery, Flemeth knew this would happen and sent something of Mythal to Morrigan as a backup. Though who knows? Almost anything could happen. I can't wait to find out.
I dunno, I don't believe her reveal in Inquisition made her seem "good" at all. For instance, she is still demanding a vessel from either Morrigan or Kieran. That's not very benevolent-sounding to me. She doesn't sound evil, either, I think she is even more mysterious than before, and I think it's best to continue approaching her character and motivations with skepticism.
Makese sense why the Inquisitor and Morrigan are coming back since those are the two vessels/ minions she would be using
Oh my gosh, could you imagine seeing your inquisitor come down that stairs with Mythals head piece instead of Morrigan, if you chose to let them drink the Well in Inquisition 😮
except this isn't a choice that you are allowed to transfer over into Veilguard from the looks of the DAI choices screen from recent previews.
The thought of The Old Tevinter Gods (who take the shape of dragons), being peices of Mytal, the goddess who can shape shift into a DRAGON, is so blindingly in your face I cannot believe i dosnt think of it before.
Hiding in plain sight.
My theory has always been that. Mythal was the strongest of the elven gods. She struck down the titans and some of them had such resentment that it turn their blood(lyrium) into a rage filled powered up version which causes the blight. Andruil found the red lyrium and brought it back from the void and Mythal saw it as a sickness so she had to separate it from him and seal it away, but the other gods saw how much stronger the blight made Andruil in his fight with Mythal, so they teamed up and betrayed her to access that power, then Solas to save the people put up the veil. What the other gods didn't know is Mythal had pulled a batman and had a contingency plan and bound the blight somewhat to her will so she could exercise control over it just incase...which leads us here...Also each of the elven gods have their dragons that are linked to them which happen to be the old gods and archdemons.
I would honestly love to hear any thoughts on this, and I definitely enjoyed your thoughts Jackdaw, also I thought of you when p,aging assassins creed black flag, I'm so glad DA is back its one of the most lore filled games that I've played besides elder scrolls!
This right here needs to be it
Haven't finished watching yet but I've had this theory for a while.
Also, I feel like Solas puts her on a pedestal but I feel like she manipulates him into that sort of position. There's this possibility that she made (aka coerced or convinced) solas to take physical form even tho he didn't want to. And for some reason he thought she was "the best of them" despite some of the... not very nice things she did. In a way I feel like she manipulated him as she has manipulated Morrigan. She hardened Morrigan, was awful to her in her upbringing, yet somehow still made her feel a sense of affection and left the feeling that the pain was necessary. It's abusive and manipulative. Why would Morrigan have been the only one? If she made Solas become a "person", like Inky and Varric do to Cole, in a sense she was the one to teach him everything about the world, thus in a way was a mother to him. We see this sort of relationship with Cole/Varric. Now imagine that instead of Varric you got Flameth. No wonder Solas is so cunning... so is Flameth. He learned it from her.
Just because she's "the best of them", doesn't mean she's good. They were awful and she is still one of them. And if she was not bad before, if she before she represented Justice now she's definitely made it clear she's Vengeance. Similar to Ander's Justice/Vengeance.
From my point of view, I feel like Mythal could either be a twist villain in the after credits scene as she possess a new body, she could be a penultimate boss before facing the final boss which is the All Father or she could be the final boss of the game after the All Father is slain.
With the spoilers from the previews from a few days ago I think it is clear that Ghilan'nain controls the blight and it was also she, along with the Evanuris, who released the blight to Thedas when the magisters entered to their now black city
Good god imagine the pain if a romanced!Lavellan who drank from the well becomes the next vessel of Mythal 😭😭😭😭
I don't think Mythal is going to be a Big Bad, at least no more a big bad than Solas himself. While she's always had her secrets and ulterior motives, I've never really seen her as a villain in any of the games: In Origins, if she didn't directly intervene, the Fifth Blight would have completely overwhelmed Ferelden, if not also Orlais. If she didn't intervene to help Hawke escape to Kirkwall, so many more things could have gone wrong.
Same. Mythal isn’t a big bad, she’s not even a bad at all.
Elves created the Blight. She's trying to repent for her sins of killing the Titans.
The Well of Sorrows calks to people, he's linking the Blight to the well in this video unfairly. She also took Kieran's soul because she knew Solas was going to betray her, so she used the soul as a contingency.
Jackdaw also doesn't cover that the Dwarves have spirits and demons independent of the veil/fade as we saw with Rock Wraiths, Ortan ghosts, Gangue, and Caridin's Spirit Spitter head traps.
I mean, she interfered, because she needed the world to survive, so she can fulfill her plans. I don't think she is a villain per se, but we have seen in the Inquisition hints of her madness, because of the need for the vengeance. As well as we've seen Solas succumbing to his darkness in the spoilers for the Veilguard, which I won't mention in case.
My friend and I were talking about this just tonight with all the Veilguard stuff. We are also finishing up our Inquisition playthroughs and I think Mythal is the real danger at the end....she was betrayed, she was wiped out (cannot say certain words on YT) and I imagine, she harbours a need for vengeance. I am also concerned that Mythal is riding Morrigan if she drank from the Well....what does this mean for our Inquisitor if he/she drank from the Well???? Mythal has been very good at putting all the pawns in place on the board through the 3 games so far, even with regards to our Warden putting a King and Queen on the throne etc....A King who owes her....Alistair. We have countless knights through companions, factions who all owe something to the main characters in the games who, coincidentally, have all met Mythal, who guided them on their journeys. It is funny how our character in Veilguard is Rook....another playing piece in chess.....I am so on board with the Mythal theories!
I still wish that the blight comes from what the chantry teaches.... that would be sooo coooooool.
It's always a good day when Jackdaw gives us our Veilguard fix. Thank you for all the hard work! :)
Thank you so so much for watching and enjoying, means the world to me to have such a lovely community!
I don’t know how I feel about Mythal as antagonist, but I do know I want so badly for Kate Mulgrew to return as Flemeth in The Veilguard.
It's heavily implied that Flemeth/Mythal transferred some of her power to Morrigan using the Eluvian in Inquisition while Solas absorbed the rest.
If Mythal is involved in this game, it'll be through Morrigan, but stuff like fighting her or her being a huge core to the story? Yeah, that's not gonna happen, the focus is quite clearly on the Veilguard themselves, Solas and the 2 Evanuris that managed to escape thanks to us. That anger we keep hearing is coming almost entirely from FLEMETH, not Mythal and clearly Mythal herself has little-to-no anger since she actively allowed Solas to kill her and take her powers.
This theory doesn't work once one actively pays attention to Flemeth and Mythal, especially in Inquisition where it's very clear that Flemeth is leaving things in Morrigan's hands [even sending something, most likely the Old God's soul, through an Eluvian, almost certainly for Morrigan] and accepting her passing by just giving Solas her powers, even if it means she and her host Flemeth would die.
I think Mythal taking over Morrigan or The Inquisitor would be something
Her turning to a serpent to take it might be particularly telling, good vid, hadn't thought of much of this regarding Mythal. In honesty though, her lines always seemed, idk, malevolent and I could never place it.
If you believed that, you have not paid attention to Flemeth in Inquisition.
I can see Morrigan being power hungry enough to willingly except Mythal's spirit and it not being a forceful possession.
She’s honestly my favourite part of dragon age! I can’t wait to see more and find out!
Even before DAV was announced, I'm still on board with this theory! If I remember correctly, there's supposed to be 5 games to the DA series and what better way to finish it off than fight none other than Mythal? Plus, I'll never believe Solas as a true antagonist, especially since we have other ancient elven gods to deal with.
Amazing video as always, Jack! Can't wait to see more!
There's a ton of ways to finish the Dragon Age series than fighting someone we've barely heard about and is almost purely a mystery.
We had AN ENTIRE GAME setting up Solas as the real antagonist as he's trying to destroy the Veil.
@@AzureRoxe Mythal, also known as Flemeth, has been around since the very first Dragon Age game and has always been a curiosity. Ever since the beginning, she has been plotting, she's said things which we don't understand, which makes people question and remember. It's only natural for those who believe in this theory to want it to happen.
If you don't agree, that's fine, you don't have to, but I'd recommend you rewatch Jack's video and look up some more info about her yourself. Everything about her is very interesting!
Solas can *look* like he's the antagonist at the beginning, but roles can change as the story progresses. We didn't even know Solas was a potential antagonist until Corypheus was defeated, who was the actual antagonist of DAI.
@@OfficiallyJewls Mythal is not "also known as Flemeth". Just like Solas mentioned about him and the Dreadwolf, Flemeth was a person that Mythal eventually found.
The person who needs to look up more info isn't me, it's you and Jackdaw cause he does some very stupid connections here that even a slight glance at Inquisition's lore would disprove like when he links the Blight to the Well of Sorrows. Implying that Mythal will have ANYTHING to do in Veilguard is stupid when we flatout see her send the Old God Soul through the Eluvian and then allows Solas to absorb her powers, SHE IS DEAD.
@@AzureRoxe Exactly, Mythal found Flemeth, but we have no idea when this happened, but it's presumed it's a very long time ago as she says multiple times "I'm a very old woman." Her and Mythal are one.
Flemeth isn't dead. If you've played Origins enough, you'd know there's an option to kill Flemeth for Morrigan. Then she comes back at the beginning of DA2. We see at the end of DAI her touching an eluvian, suposedly sending something through it, but we don't know what. She could've sent multiple things through at one, like the Old Gods soul you mentioned and perhaps another part of her life force.
We know that the Blight is organic. It's very possible it can connect to the Well of Sorrows since there's nothing saying that it can't. It's true, we don't know if Mythal will be involved in Veilguard, but there's a very high likelyhood she will be since this game will go heavily into the elven gods.
There's also no need to be rude to me or Jackdaw by calling both of us stupid. We're both just theorising, which is what this video is. If you get mad at things like this, then maybe you should find another place to talk about it.
I really like the theory that the inquisition could become the next vessel, which could be why Bioware, among all their big reveals already, have been very hush hush about the role of the inquisitor, beyond the fact that they show up in Veilguard. You might be onto something there.
Hey Jackdaw another great video!! I'd like to add something I haven't seen anyone anywhere talk about it may even add to Mythal being the grand villain. We know that the Evanuris are blighted, sadistic and tyrannical rulers. However their history as seen by the dalish elves depicts them as good and benevolent rulers and Solas as the evil god as an example of their propaganda. Keeping that in mind, the other god that was deemed a threat collectively by the Evanuris for a time was Andruil. They put her down in their version of history as corrupted, engulfed by madness and howling things meant to be forgotten every time she came back from the void. So since its all propaganda. What if she went into the void got cleansed somehow from the blight either by the Forgotten ones or something else and returned to the surface so she can cleanse and free her fellow Evanuris, or maybe even just for Ghilan'nain if they were actually lovers, and the people from their blighted gods time and time again and each time she would get defeated and blighted again. Until Mythal herself stepped in personally to take her down and take her memories of the void from her. Thus ending the threat to the rule of the Evanuris. Maybe Mythal then spread the blight into the void since she gained the knowledge how to get there and created the darkspawn with ironically Ghilan'nain possibly the one Andruil wanted to save the most. It would make for a very sad love story for them. I hope you read this if you did thanks a lot it would be amazing to get your thoughts on it :) #FirstWardenAndruil cuz why not XD Damn that leads to another one :)
Here's another theory. Mythal used the taint she drew from Andrul and used it against one of the Titans, creating corrupted lyrium, which created the Blight. But she only used it to kill one Titan, and that's the blighted one we'll see in the game.
I think this might be my favorite video you have ever made! Your tinfoiling is the finest on the platform! 👏 I would absolutely love it if the Inky became a Vessel of Mythal! Imagine Solas having to confront Mythal in Lavellan's form. Chef's kiss tragedy right there!!!
i feel like it’s not discussed enough in canon that Mythal has a well that literally removes your free will. i feel like someone needs to have that discussion in Veilguard, especially with Solas. because Solas idealizes Mythal so much and, while interesting, is extremely irritating to me. 💀
While Solas is proponent of free will he already does and say things that contradict that in the spoilers for the Veilguard. I won't go deeper into that, since people may want to avoid spoilers
Jack, I'm absolutely giddy you've made this video! I can't stop thinking about the Well of Sorrows consequences with my current Inquisition play through... 👀
Maybe she’s more in the grey area? Like not necessarily a big bad but not necessarily a paragon of virtue either?
All this had me thinking if it was a coincidence that Flemet was near the region of the blight started in DA:O?
If nothing else, I do not want Veilguard to end with another big antagonist cliffhanger. We got that in Inquisition with Trespasser and had to wait a decade for any sort of meaningful closure. I'm all for writers leaving some threads unfinished if they want to give themselves options for a potential sequel, but I really, really want this game to end with a true and genuine sense of conclusion for the main thrust of the plot. Having the resolution spoiled a second time in a row by the revelation that none of it matters because the real big bad is standing right over there, actually, would leave me feeling bitterly disappointed.
I love the coverage of Veilguard but I glad youa re also making again lore nd speculation videos of DA
Glad you enjoy it! Thank you!
My head just exploded 🤯🤯
It’s mythal all along 🎶 🎵
😂😂 literally!!
The wisp of Mythal was not part of the greater being that may of been corrupted. You also assume it was not the events with Andruil that may of cause Mythal to be corrupted to begin with in her attempt to save her people from Andruil's corruption. Remember it was Andruil that started it all. It could very well been inflicted upon Mythal not done by her. I do not see Mythal as the big bad, but the ones we will be fighting in Veilguard. I am looking forward to seeing the truth and not some tinfoil theory's! :) Solas looks to restore the world, Mythal seeks to get vengeance on those who betrayed her and the world itself. The answer to the blight is way bigger than we know. I don't think Morrigan who has been fighting Mythal would suddenly agree to it. Only if she drank from the well would that possibly has occurred. Mythal needs a willing host not one that does not want it.
Maybe Mythal will become the villain of Dragon Age 5. They will need somewhere to go story wise after the Veilguard, after all.
they need to reboot this would be the 4th world ending threat in the span of like 15-20 years
@@AceOvrZerobut at the same time, the events are back to back because of a series of events. the blight led to hawke going to kirkwall which led to corypheous which led to inquisition which leads to a rushed timeline for solas which leads to the veilguard which leads to whatever is next. think about how many crazy things have happened irl in the past 50 years compared to the hundreds of years before that.
No where is my Warden Lord high Duncan. He promised to protect Morrigan.
There is DEFINITELY another antagonist in this upcoming game, because they are giving away a lot of story details in the runup to the game's release, and they would not be this forthcoming if there was not some huge stuff in the background.
Are you gonna be making a video on the world state choices? I wouuld like to see someone talk about how different the game could still feel with this disappointing reveal because rn, my hype is dead in the water lol
honestly, I'm super shocked you weren't invited to the EA event!! you absolutely deserved it
Aw thank you so much!!
So the warden the champion the Inquisitor and the rook all get together to fight mythal? It would be epic.
I think Bioware would be fools not to do this. Having all of the previous heroes return (as long as they are alive), at least in the final battle, would be the most epic finale of all time.
Ooh this theory is good 😱!! I’ve always wondered why she’s been in every one of the games so far and usually somewhere close to the blight too. Cannot wait to play DAV 🥹😱🥳 my nerdy brain needs answers to all these theories 😅
I’m def looking forward to the game completely
the warden killed her b4 why do any one think she is really dead when Solis kills her
Honestly mythal/flemeth returning would be iconic in any capacity. I fear the chance of this is low seeing how she ended up in the ending of DAI, but seeing and hearing her voice again, whether she’s a benevolent or malevolent entity, would be glorious to behold.
For the longest time most everyone thought the old gods and the evanuris were different. I finally feel vindicated for all the ridicule I took since origins! 😆
I also think Mythal is the true villain she's been the one at the head of all the stories in The Dragon Age.
I think Mythal isn't the big bad. Her zapping strength of Andruil seemed to be means of an end. Andruil knew very well it is unwise to hunt the Forbidden ones, yet in her addiction to hunt she knew no limits.
As for Kieran, original plan was for Flemeth to take Kieran away towards his destiny, and only Morrigan begging changed that. Flemeth took away 'destiny' so Kieran would be just a fairly normal child. I do feel Mythal is connected with Blight as the elven dialect if Inquisitor is the one to drink Well of Sorrows went like "Mythal speaks the Blight". We also know Blight originated in Black City. I suspect Mythal was murdered in Black City and the murder eventually spread blight.
It could be that Mythal kept in herself blight from Andruil's 'madness'. We know Mythal is highly associated with dragons, and we also know normal dragons are not exactly immune to blight but highly resistant. They keep blight 'blocked' in their organism.
If Mythal is akin to a dragon, as all her depictions seem to imply, she would have held blight within her for as long as she lives. Welp .. they murdered her, thus releasing blight back.
Mythal by all means sounds pragmatic and determined. We also know there was speculated 8 Old God, one that was forgotten and associated with Draconis constellation. Who else could it be, if not Mythal ?
Striken from memory because she wasn't there anymore.
I feel like Titans are more likely to be hidden villain all along. After titans had to do something to make Evanuris go this far to end them. Perhaps Titans were subjecting way more then just dwarves to their needs. We've seen how obsessed Sha-Brytol were for just ONE titan, and we know how addictive and dangerous lyrium is.
If Mythal speaks the calling then perhaps when she killed a Titan she deliberately unleashed the blight. Could that be why the Evanuris murdered her? Had she attempted to use the Blight as a weapon against the Elven Gods?
It’s def a possibility that mythal is our next villain to slay
I'm sure when the final Dragon Age game comes whenever that may be, Flemeth/Mythal will ultimately be the final villain to be defeated, and I'm betting Kieran (or his soul) will play a big part in how that goes down.
God, i hope not (answering thumbnail, watching vid after comment 😅). For all intents and purposes, Morrigan is the new avatar of Mythal. My elven mage warden loves Morrigan, followed her through the eluvian in witchhunt, stayed with morrigan and his son until he went looking for a cure for the joining but still staying in love and contact with Morrigan ( Morrigan still very much loves him in Inquisition). I'm actually hoping to find out more about what happened to HoF from Morrigan in Veilguard ( I'm hoping that her embracing her destiny as mythal's host or avatar doesn't mean she ditches Derion (my elven warden). Damn i loved playing him, i built him as a Pillar of Reality mage (heavy investment in willpower, over 100, magic around 60 and just enough cunning to get all 4 coercion and just basically getting specific sustains like the arcane warrior ones miasma,lifedrain one from battlemage and a few others totaling like 7-10 permanent sustains. Very lyrium potion dependant build). He never went down even when the rest of the team did, i basically soloed Nightmare Harvester with him in golems of amgarrak
Well the warden already put her down once and we can do it again!
Rook: no Resurrections this time!
Its very similar to nordic lore... so im actually guessing that Solas(loki) and Mithal(gullveig or freya?) Actually tried to save the gods and the humans hut accidently fucked up... which made them have to make the veil. A sort of ragnaok-esk synario
I mean they tried to soften her through Solas, but she's still an Evanuris with her own Vallaslin and as a result still had her own slaves even into the present for influence, not to mention the Well of Sorrows. There's definitely something they haven't quite reconciled yet in terms of their history.
All of the old gods being fragments of Mythal would also explain why they are usually all depicted as dragons, as she has such heavy dragon iconography as well.
Flemeth always seems like she was in the right place at the right time, which for that to happen across three different games and in-universe years of time is extremely suspicious. Big bad? Maybe. I could see that. All I know for sure is that she definitely is up to something.
One thing I noticed, many years ago, thankx to Ghil Dirthalen, the red lyrium acts much in the same way as a disease does. Red lyrium moves quickly in warm, or hot temperatures, but moves slowly, or not at all, in cold temperatures. Diseases also act that way in the same temperatures. It the reason why hospitals keep their O.R.s cold. It helps to prevent the germs that cause diseases from spreading in there.
Or cancer...
I'll just kill all the Elven gods to be safe with my Dwarven Grey Warden.
someone who demanded God could not be trusted
Solas and mythal were the only "gods" (who were just elven mages) that disapproved of how the other "gods" treated and enslaved elves and thats what got the rest of them locked up in the end.
What if mythal was the maker and she possessed andraste so when andraste spoke with the maker it was just mythal guiding her
This is my "pet theory" because i find Mythal and Flemeth interesting the older i got. I personally think what happened to Justice and Anders happened to Mythal and Flemeth. They are not two entities any more. Mythal is not Mythal. She has not been in many ages. Whatever she was before she is vengeful now her lines in DA2 indicate that. Perhaps it was Mythal the warped Flemeth or they were the true end game of "I can make them worse" relationships. It's a bit of of ramble lol
I need to hear the theories between Mythal/Flemeth and Andraste!
agreed even those she suppose to be dead, I won't be surprised she show up in the new game in a new form
VEILGUARD SPOILER WARNING!!!
So in the mission at Weisshaupt Ghilan’nain calls the archdemon she’s using the “finest child of the gods” and her “greatest creation.” And “Rook mentions she can’t die until the Archdemon is dead and so I’m think they’re like Corephyus’ dragon in inquisition for the elven gods. Pets that offer them immortality.
Probably this colossal dragon from the trailer which was attacked by Dread Wolf is actually Mythal
We literally know those dragons are from the escaped Evanuris my dude.
It could go either way with Mythal honestly she could help us with the blighted gods or become the ultimate villain who knows!
Mythal is Voldemort confirmed? 👀
I'm curious who has the inquisitor drink from the well as their Canon state. I always have my elf's drink, which is most of them, and it paid off in trespasser. Let's see what 10 years later brings, but I'm very curious, probably the choice I most want to see play out.
It seems that we don't get to choose who drank from the well, as well as we don't get to choose anything from DAO and DA2 which is just baffling. If it turns out Morrigan is possessed my Mythal, it's gonna be one trash of a twist, especially since you can't choose who drank from the well and given that Flemeth states you can't force it. Something tells me we will be left with a lot of unanswered questions. I was really looking forward to learning if HoF managed to cure the Calling, but it seems like this whole plotline will be dropped and forgotten like Hof and GoB never existed.
I really hope tho that Mythal will play a big role in this or be a big bad in some way, because I find Solas utterly uninteresting. Everyone says he isn't a typical villain because of some supposed grey morality, but his actions are pretty black & white, there is nothing complex about him. He is like some idiot who want to revert the industrial revolution, because back in his day people were closer to nature.
She killed one the titan were strongest in that world so they put them a sleep so what if calling was keep them sleep
Mythal ultimately wants to restore herself as Thedas sole ruler under a new Elven empire, I think she knows how to rescind the blight with blood magic and opposed the other gods attempt to control the world with it. She was killed for that reason and wants revenge against the rest of the pantheon except for Solas. Mythal genuinely believes herself to know best than anybody else and that everyone is better under her control than enslaved by the other Evanuris or running around aimlessly like Solas want them in freedom. This is a key difference between her and Solas, while Solas ultimately wants a new Elven empire without gods or slaves, Mythal wants everyone obeying her as absolute god queen.
Hiding in Morrigan perhaps?
👀👀👀
@@JackdawYT Ha. Believe me, the analysts over at BSN are working the problem. 🙂
I don't think shes bad, but I bet she isn't happy, That her family pretty much killed her because she was trying to keep them on a straight path. As I've said before, and I saw something that seems to prove my theory correct. I bet the others was experimenting with the blight and lyrium and when Mythal found out, she got them altogether to try and stop them from using it. Instead they just killed her. So, Mythal, isn't probably the happiest person right now.
Didnt solas kill mythal in the ending of the game
Maybe you know more than us but as far as I can tell the 'world state' import is quite pathetic and there's no mention of the Well of Sorrows.
Maybe the Well of Sorrows was the choices we made along the way 🤷♂️
😭😭😭 if this is true, Solas is gonna be hurt and that’s all I care about lmaooo
Nope. Morrigan will not be a villain (as mythal) or herself. I won't here of it. 😅😅😅
She has a scary laugh
Did you not get an invite to play the game for 6 hours???
Specify please, Mythal or Flemeth?
They are the same. Mutual merged with Flemith
I don't.
I think Mythal is more of anti-hero nudge history in the right direction
I've always thought that we're only getting one side of history regarding the elven gods. People who like Solas believe everything he says, even though he clearly betrayed us and lied to us the entire game. Surely, the elven gods are corrupted, but could that not have been because of Solas' imprisonment of them?? Andruil learned something she shouldn't have in the void and Mythal took her memories. What is she hiding?
He never lied, he simply never told us his real goal, but every time we ask him something, he answers truthfully.
@@AzureRoxe *Truthfully within reason.
lol. what a fail, you see morrigan, the queen of all games and... No! haha
where morigan bazongas? its gone, so sad
The idea that the souls from the archdemons belongs to Flemeth is really a good theory🤔
Nah i think the Reapers are coming to Thedas after Shepard punnched their tin aah AI heads
Be fucking serious
You know this game is going to be a major flop right?
No, it won't. And, I look forward to seeing you crying when it succeeds.
Your a major flop
You all just can’t resist can you? Stop wasting energy hating on something you won’t play and go play what you like. And I’m pretty sure this game is going to do a whole lot better than you culture war tourists assume.
@@maiafay It has significantly less pre orders than star wars outlaws whose low sales tanked ubisoft stocks and has the entire publishing company on the verge of shutting down. You are coping.
@@nicofash6366it’s been climbing pretty steadily. And I think it’ll be just fine once it releases and people can see it for themselves rather than rage bait crying over every little thing.
I support Mythal’s rights, and Mythal’s wrongs 🫡 ready for the heaven-shaking reckoning
I really don't think Morrigan is possessed, I think she is wearing the headpiece to show her power, to show her growth, that she has taken over her mom's mortal role and intends to surpass her not that she is Mythal.