I have both and have put both to use. I have two Flow hives and one knockoff. I should clarify that I built an exact replica of the Flow hive (using cedar and giving it the same angle on the base) and then bought the knockoff frames to try them out in a super. The knockoffs are made of acrylic, which is considered to be food grade plastic. I personally don't question as much of what comes out of China as I did 30 years ago, and I'm certain that many of the items in my kitchen are made in China. For now, they work exactly the same as the Flow hive in terms of the bees filling them with honey and extracting the honey. (This does make me wonder, why haven't I researched what kind of plastic is used in foundation? Have you? I haven't even wondered, until right now.) They came with the turn key and the extraction tubes, but the tubes lack the anti-drip notch. Other than that the appear to function exactly the same. At the end of the day, my bees filled both and I harvested from both the same way, but for a fraction of the cost. If they prove to be durable then I think Flow will likely have to adjust their pricing.
@@BlackMountainHoney Laurence --- Sorry I quoted the wrong price at Amazon they have increased from 170 December 2021 to 220 today -28 Jul 22 the free one day delivery appeals The brand is Kakasa. I cannot find anything wrong with my two hives at all.
It's now March 2024 and they sell them for $1100 without a stand or the fancy table they now have. I decided against the purchase and just yesterday eBay popped up with a knock off. I didn't know they made knockoffs but after checking the reviews of someone who sold 260+ I decided to pull the trigger. I paid $190 for it from a seller in California. The reviews were almost all positive so I'm excited to see how well it actually is made.
couple things, at 7:20 if you had the top board on it doesn't hit the handles. I'm in Florida and like the screened ones they provide, also on the 3 fake flow hives I've purchased there's a turnable piece of wood to hold the top and bottom piece in.
Brave move, significant investment. I do agree with not supporting knockoffs, but I do believe the flow hive is overpriced. Personally, I believe that the price will be justified if the fake flow frames won't perform as the original. If the fakes perform as well as the original, then it is just an overpriced product. Can wait for the result, as you can 3-4 fake ones with the price of the original. Thanks for taking the charge.
Cheers Mauricio. Agreed. This video/review isnt really designed to support one over the other. My natural curiosity of an £800 versus £200 product just got the better of me. End result may well be, steer clear of the cheap knock offs, they aren't up to scratch. If that's the case, doesn't matter how cheap they are. I am interested in the design patent issue though. Flow must have not had lengthy or watertight patents as they are copied without any fear of persecution it seems.
When you say "overpriced" I would challenge that there are a few more things to keep in mind when it comes to what Flow Hive costs vs the knock-offs. R&D Costs $$ - The Anderson family (Stuart and Cedar Anderson) spent years working on developing this technology. This took not only their time but easily $100k+ of their own money. Creating a product, protecting their designs with patents, and starting a business all costs money. This is called R&D and small family businesses like the Anderson family’s business often goes for years before recouping these costs and turning a profit. The Chinese company that produces these just cloned their work disregarding their patent and intellectual property rights. This is a practice that most other countries do not allow but China has used for decades and purchasing from them continues to promote this despicable practice. Smaller Companies Have Higher Manufacturing Costs - Unlike the Chinese company, the Anderson Family has to pay for manufacturing costs, meet set standards for food safe plastics and designs, and pay all the other fees involved in producing their product. While the Flow hive has gained popularity over the past few years, this is still a niche product that is made in smaller quantities. Therefore, it cost them significantly more to manufacture these hives and ship them internationally. The Chinese company can pump these out with no regard for regulations or ethical employee practices. Quality control and inspections of the chemical composition of the plastics is not regulated. Flow Hive Provides More Than A Product (And Most of it is free) - Those who use the knock-off frames will still likely go to the Flow Hive website, forum, and weekly TH-cam videos to find tips, tricks, and additional support and education. The Anderson family provides all this at no additional cost. The number of quality resources they provide is astounding and has gotten so many new people into bee keeping. How truly despicable it would be use a knock-off flow hive while still benefitting from all the knowledge support they provide. Just because something is more expensive than you want to pay doesn't make it "overpriced" especially when you consider the cost of supporting knock-off Chinese competitors. I would submit that, as fellow bee keepers, we should support them, the work they have put into it, and the continuing service they provide. If you are unable to afford their product, then there are traditional methods that work just fine. Supporting our bee keeping community and participating in the most ethical practices should be our highest priority - not buying ethically questionable products because they are the cheapest. We should not benefit from the hard work of the Anderson family and the support their small business provides while paying a Chinese kock-off company.
@@stemwisevidsThe hive2 cedar model is $1000 vs a China made cedar version for under $200. We are now multiple years after the invention hit the market for several hundred dollars less. It feels similar to the guy who had that medicine and jacked up the price knowing no one had a comparable. Until there is competition the pricing can be inflated to whatever number they want. I applaud the invention and business regardless. They have to make money, it's a business after all! They just can't be upset when people smarten up and grab 4 knockoffs for the same investment that will perform the same. As time passes those knockoffs may even surpass the original in innovation. The question is can they do it to scale if they want to?
I have 2 flow hives and found them brilliant with no problems at all, with your hive you should have also received a bamboo Queen excluder and a wire mesh inner cover that goes above the plastic flow frames which stops the roof from catching the small handles ( never bothered putting mine on); also mine came wax dipped which I think might last a season and then I will either paint or use linseed oil to treat.
@@BlackMountainHoney Another thing you need to be wary of….only put your key into the slot about a third of the way to release honey! When it has started to flow for a minute you can then insert it the rest of the way and crack the rest of the cells open…stops a rush of honey that can spill over into the frames, makes it easier to crack the frames open as well also 2 keys at the same time if you have them….easier than you think this flow frame malarkey lol.
Bloody good job the Chinese flow hive was a Langstroth. Bigger and I found better I'd say than the paltry 5 frame National nuc I bought June 11th this year. Had to cable tie the frames inside of the Langstroth frames. No where near the amount of bees compared with the Langstroth deeps I bought last July.
Brand new to bee keeping this season. Placed a big swarm in one 7 flow frame (10 frame Langstroth) hive on the 22nd October and harvested two frames on 20th January. They started with 10 wax foundation frames but that is all. One other frame full and the others all have some nectar. The other hive had a much smaller swarm placed in it on 25th September and I would have harvested one frame on the weekend except for the dreadful weather. There are many things that I appreciate about the real flow hive. The stand, the ant guards on the legs, the tray. I love the roof - because it is like a bee house :). It is great to be able to look into the super at the front and back and watch the bees. I can harvest without suiting up and without disturbing the bees. I don't need to wait for the super to be full before harvesting. Just that one frame. Most of this is completely irrelevant to a professional beekeeper, but to the backyard beekeeper it all adds to the experience. My greatest trepidation is that as they are swarms I will need to re-queen next spring. I will feel like a usurper. Thanks for the videos. I really enjoy them.
@Sam Kabamm It is true I am new to beekeeping. My two hives did well in summer and are still going OK though - now in the middle of winter. I feel sorry for people who only know how to belittle others. Their life is truly hollow.
@@mrspot234 It's best to ignore the anti Flow framers. This is because almost all of them have never seen a Flow Hive and if they do have one they are not using it in a proper manner. If this is the case they and anyone else for that matter should find time to watch Frederick Dunn's expert findings on Flow hives. He is the only instructor to watch if the best is being sort. = You Tube The way to bee. North east USA Pa, therefore dispelling the myth that Flow hives are no good in the UK! However the Flow hive is not a good choice if fields of Rape are within foraging distance. If that is the case no flow super should be put on until the rape has gone. See Freds advice re no flow frames put on until the box/boxes of brood are 80% full of resources.
@@mrspot234 I don't know why some call them fake. The Chinese are not just good at copying but are professional innovators as well. There is some rubbish as well but Paypal gets your money back. Fred has helped me immensely and I doubt we would have got the 40lbs of honey without sticking to all his advice. Did you see he has too much honey? Our bees are already filling the flow hive of 2021 ( left it all to the bees) for the second time.
I purchased both a FlowHive 2+ and the fake “Auto Flow” (Chinese version) box and frames that will be used on top of an Apimaye Plastic Insulated hive. Both will be moved outside this Spring.
This was so very helpful and I'm super grateful. Ya, Flow Hive for some reason made all of their langstroth boxes to be a tad shorter in width. WHY????? Don't know, but does not make any sense. It's frustrating trying to add shims and other roofs. There are a couple factors why I would never buy the Fake Flow Hive. For one, I don't believe bees should live in a pine box. It's the worst wood possible to keep bees in. It rots easy, its a cheap wood, and barely has a R-Value for retaining heat which is so essential for bees. Second, over and over I have heard that the Fake Flow Frame simply don't work well. They won't open and close correctly, that hive beetles can get inside the upper chambers, that that there is no way in telling if they are made with Food Grade plastic--which is sooooo important if your going to be storing honey them them. As for the Flow Hives, I own two, and I can tell you from experience, owning them is like owning a fine piece of furniture--you won't find a better built hive. And I think everyone that has one would agree with me. The attention to detail is solid. And the wood, which is either Cedar or Australian Araucaria wood, which are both superior woods. Their Flow Frames work perfectly. And ya, the base--what a design!!!! What I don't care about is the price. Really, 800-900$??? I get that its an invention and I respect that, but come one. If they were cheaper I would buy more, but two is enough for me. The only complaint I have is that it is you are not able to add an entrance reducer to this hive. So you have to make your own which I did. Mike over at The Guardian Hive Entrance help me using his 3-D printer. Again, thanks for doing such a great job with the reviews my friend. Brad at the Brass Bee Apiary
Could not afford a ridiculous priced one so have got 2 from A who are not worried about patents and neither are their suppliers. These two hives are identical so there must be a big maker. Fred Dunn gave an impartial review in 2015 and the 'finger joints' on the genuine F H were not machined well at all and they were well out of tolerance. Any engineer watching that review would take a dim view of that expensive kit not having accurate joints. These two cheap ( as far as it goes) copies work great. Yes additions are needed such as the OMF and catch tray if common sense tells the beekeeper that varroa that drop need checking and treating. An additional brood box is sensible in many instances. What does one expect for £170?
@@BlackMountainHoney I’m good thanks Laurence 😊 I’m getting itchy feet and can’t wait for March to roll around 😆😆. Keep up the great work and stay safe.
Just a couple of points: As noted earlier you've got the supers on wrong way round. The flow super does come in a 10 frame size as well. The reason the flow boxes are slightly smaller is because the wood has been run through a planer, like furniture quality wood. I've also got both and standard langstroth hives too and I must say as far as fit and finish real Flow-Hives win hands down. Does that justify the price? not for me but the difference is impressive.
Fair play putting the money on the table and getting one to try! I am a little torn when it comes to supporting people/companies that rip off products..
I am with you there but it shouldnt really get to that point if the design protection is in place. I am here to provide unbiased reviews to help inform people's purchasing decisions. I think the Original won this round :D
The Chinese government are communist scum who don't give a damn about international law or copyright infringement. Also, their workforce have no human rights and are exploited to the hilt.
No? If the flow hive can not produce their product at a lower price a equivalent product with a lower price will drive them off the market, as capital intended. This is economic 101. Capitalism keeps the best product cheap . you are the scum if you do not understand that and instead defending a multi million dollar company intentionally charges you more for they product.
@@BlackMountainHoney Some one rightly said China is the wild west of patents! 170 quid is a big attraction if the buyer is short of cash and came first in joinery way back in 1956..... A buyer can buy all sorts of stuff off Amazon who are flexible with the Chinese... Lol.
I assume the standard for the 8 frame specifies an internal length and width to fit the standard frames inside. If the wall material is a different thickness material, you will end up with boxes of differing outside length and width. However, these different boxes might still conform to that standard. Best to match your boxes from the same range of the same manufacturer, maybe.
Is it OK to use pva glue when putting together a bee hive like this? What can I use other than paint to protect the timber inside and out? Can I use a mix of bees wax and boiled linseed oil?
G'day Laurence, I'm looking forward to seeing how this testing progresses. I have a Flow Hive 2 that is going great guns at the moment. I have bought a 2nd brood box through Flow to use on it, especially because they don't quite match with the standard Langstroth ones. They are expensive..... The biggest fault I have found with mine is the honey leaking down into the brood box when harvested. I have been taking the frames out and opening them over a plastic tub inside my house. The first harvest I lost about half a kg of honey from 3 frames. I've done a bit of research and I believe that my bees have put the wax capping on very close to the plastic frame. The actual idea is that they cap the honey further out from the plastic, leaving the capping all intact when you turn the key and move the plastic cells underneath. My capping just came apart when I opened the cells up, hence the honey falling straight down and out instead of running down the tunnel to the tube outside. Hope this all makes sense. I believe the more I use the frames, the further out the capping will be, as the bees get in and fix up the cells as soon as that honey is gone. Hope this is helpful. I really love your videos, even though, I think I've said before, I'm in Australia and conditions here are total opposite to yours. Take care
I don't know anything about beekeeping, Michelle, but I was watching a 'Flow Hive' video made by an expert and he recommended that you tilt the hive a little from front to back and this stops the honey dripping on the bees during the extraction.
@@wolfenstein6676 Newer Flowhives come with two built in spirit levels. The front to back one is set at about 5 degrees tilt so that when the bubble is 'level' it's actually at the correct tilt angle for harvesting.
About honey running inside the hive with extractions--you will find on your second or third go around it will stop. Also, make sure in your first couple extractions to only open one frame at a time, and only open 1/3 of the frame at a time. This way if they do leak, it gives the bees time to clean up. No need in taking them out.
Have the Anderson’s even applied for a patent ?. They seem more interested in getting more people to look after bees to help pollinate the planet.I have herd they’ve donated flow hives to poor countries and they gave away honey to animal shelters to treat our wildlife after our bushfires.There’s no way I would have bees if it weren’t for flow hives.In one year I’ve gone from one colony to five and enjoying everything about them.thanks for the videos from my old country regards ray.
I am not sure. I have heard so much about their philanthropy and its just amazing. Fair play to them. Id be surprised if they weren't covered by some sort of design infringement mechanism though. Maybe it just doesnt cover China!
I agree with you Ray. there is no way, living in NYC, I would start back with beekeeping unless it was a flow hive, Infact, hearing about them was the reason I returned to beekeeping.
They took a writ out and a court case followed but it was unsuccessful. The writer said China is the wild west of patents. Seems a bit like Putin doing whatever he thinks is right for him but the world does not agree. Buying the original that's been superseded would be the one to buy, there's no question about that but it's down to the money isn't it. We'd all like a BMW 4x4 but have to be thankful of a Toyota Landcruiser brand new 2003. Plenty of folks would be better off with a Landcruiser than a Nissan but the LC is quite a bit dearer but the LC pixxes all over the Nissan. It's down to the money but there is not all that difference in the genuine F H compared to the copy. Not three times as much re price, definitely not. The copy works and delivers just the same amount of honey as spending three times as much.
Hi Laurence, some info and observations to help your ongoing reviews 🙂 The Flow Hive you have is not the original it's a Flow Hive 2. They have a classic, Flow Hive 2 and Flow Hive 2+. Yours is red cedar apart from the extra brood box that's pine. The fake flow hive: Was there a crown board? That's why the roof won't fit. Did it have a harvesting key? What's the mesh board for that came with it? Thier version of a crown board! Flow hive 2 harvesting tubes and harvesting channel on the bottom of the frames are different. There is no back Flow channel on the fake flow hive and the harvesting tubes do not have the nib that fits into the back Flow channel to clear any wax or propolis to allow residual honey to drain into the brood box and for the bees to drink the small amount of left over honey in the channel. Your missing the locking block on the fake flow hive harvest door to lock in the door and top harvesting access panel. The classic Flow Hive has wooden nobs same as the fake flow hive. The fake flow hive is based on the original classic Flow Hive. The fake flow hive does not have the built in 3 degree slope to the rear to support harvesting which the classic Flow Hive it copies has.
@@BlackMountainHoney I firmly believe the cause of honey dripping ( if indeed that does happen) onto either the brood box below the flow frame or goes further down onto the catch tray is caused by backing up through any uncapped cell or cells. Frederick Dunn observes that it is the centre rear bottom cells in the Flow super that gets capped last. That would resolve for me, looking at the problem through the eyes of an engineer, the fact that a small amount of honey was seen exactly below the centre of the 7 Flow frames and I noted that I was too impatient and the centre frame at bottom was not totally full either. Each frame should give a good 4 pints. This was so re the outer frame. the others were not full enough to match the outer frame to the tune of at least 1/2 pint. Murphy's law happened again I think? If a cell is not capped then honey can come out of that cell and all the flow will not go down the 1" tube, Tilting the hive at a steeper angle may well make matters worse not better! It would have been difficult to have bigger tubes but I have bought 45 deg bends to lessen the resistance to the flow. These bends will be tight up to the frames and eliminate the 4", nigh on horizontal pipes. Best Wishes
Hi Laurence. Can you do a short video on camouflaging your hives? Why you do it, how you do it, what kind of paint, where you can buy the colours, etc? Thanks.
Hi. There are a couple on the site - just search for paint on our homepage. In terms of paint, we use quick colour from Rustoleum. Black, Dark Grey, Brown and Oxford green are the colours
Great comparison. I think there’s something wrong with the way you’ve put together the super, because the top piece that comes out to insert the key should be able to come out without moving the roof. I will post this comment with a photo of mine on the Facebook post.
I bought a fake flow hive as well, but the wood was actually cedar. As I live in Oklahoma, where it gets pretty hot in the Summer, the extra ventilation provided by those holes in the roof will come in very handy. I used an extra bottom screen board I had as an inner cover though to cut off the bees using those top holes for an entrance. Haven't actually added the flow super yet as it was a new hive and they haven't finished their 2nd brood box yet. May not be able to try the flow super until next year.
I'm in Oklahoma as well. Would be interested in how it goes. I have two 2nd year hives who survived their first winter, but would draw comb when I put honey supers on. Trying to find a good way to get some honey!
@@jz1552 The dry spell we had really slowed down my bees, so I won't be seeing any honey this year. I have a plan for next year if we get hit with another hot fry spell. I've built multiple raised flower beds I'm going to plant multiple varieties of flowers and veggies to keep the bees fat and happy with pollen and nectar.
@@LoneWolf0568 We have some land we've thought about putting in a bee-friendly flower. Was wondering if these flow hives helped with getting the bees to produce. Sounds like you get the same results regardless if you don't have strong nectar flow.
@@jz1552 Exactly same if not a strong nectar flow. You can feed to simulate the nectar but I have heard that you don't want to eat honey made from sugar syrup. Something about taste. I am in the process of building as many raised flower beds as I can so I can avoid the problem of low nectar flows. It won't do me any good this year but should next year
Looks like your fake is missing some parts that my fake came with. The wooden queen excluder, the hardware wire screen(goes between the honey super and roof) and the operable double hive entrance. Came with 4 honey extraction tubes, wrench, extra caps for tube holes and honey frame wrench. I couldn’t see dropping $1000 on a flow when eBay had the fake for $189 new. That’s painted white with a blue wood roof. Honestly that’s over $300-400 cheaper than a standard Langstroth 10 frame with a deep and a medium super with telescopic roof and a screen bottom board with a drawer. That wire screen missing is the reason your roof doesn’t fit right. There should be a board to mount on the access covers side to secure by turning to lock in place. Make sure to wax the auto frames and flow frames with melted down beeswax or the bees won’t use them. Best of luck to you.
I bought the original flow hive 2+. It was beautiful. However, this fall when it came to harvesting, not one cell of honey was in their honey super. I used the super on an existing hive that was very healthy. Is this normal? I am now not sure if I want to use it again in the spring. It was over $1,000 and I’m thinking I should have done more research. I added beeswax onto the frames as I read that the bees would take to the frames better. All summer there were bees in the super so I thought they were just filling them from the middle. Any suggestions? The rest of the hive is great.
We got 40 lbs of lovely honey two weeks ago from a cheapo Chinese Flow hive. An additional brood /super box is need here anyway otherwise the bees would have busted at the seams! Under the Flow hive that is.
Hi Lawrence, yea the real one looks good compared to the fake one, question which site did you buy the fake one from I’m only asking because I’m looking at ali baba to buy frames and foundation they seem a lot cheaper coming out of China than the prices in our UK stores, 10 frames, 10 foundation UK price £28 , Chinese price 100 frames and foundation £14-99 that’s a big difference there mate, maybe anyone who has used the Ali baba site could put us wise to the dos and donts of buying from this site . Even the price of say a 10 frame langstroth that’s a ventilated floor one brood box and two honey supers with crown board and a stainless steel roof oh and all the frames and foundation all for £25 -00 it seems to good to be true.
Have you ever bought from it before, Mark? I have nearly did but the time you get to paying the money the cost of shipping, fees, insurance, VAT, duty, customs etc - the price is many times what is on that home page. I got mine from Amazon. Search flow hive - there is only one
@@BlackMountainHoney thx Lawrence I knew it was going to be too good to be true, sadly with pricing on everything going up and up it’s a case off having to shop around.
The difference in price makes the lesser design worth it. I can buy 3 liters of honey for 20 Euro. It would take a long time for ROI for the original flow hive price. Like many years...
Look forward to your review with both flow hives, and if they are worth the money compared to norm Langstroth hive box. The fake flow hive is half the price to the original one. Cheers from Vancouver island Canada.
We are currently in the process of buying land to build a self sustained home, off Gird woth a bnb, this might sound very ignorant, but I have no knowledge of bee keeping, but is there the same maintenance in a flow hive, how often do you have to inspect the hibe and so on, thank you
Fantastic video, really looking forward to seeing how your get on with these hives. I wanted to try the flow hive but just can't justify getting a langstroth hive when I only have 14x12 nationals. I'm still hopping they re start making the flow national supers but not sure they will. Anyway hope your well man all the best to you
Looks like you missed some of the main pieces for the fake hive that cover some of the issues you brought up (I'm halfway through the video, I'll leave another comment if there are more things is). There is a wooden piece that you screw in that goes in between the piece that keeps falling out, and the door to the flow holes. You rotate that wooden piece to lock both of the pieces with handles so they don't fall out. The holes in the roof aren't designed to be upper entrances, they are ventilation holes. There is a mesh inner cover that should have come with it that goes between the top of the flow super and the roof.
The fake one was definitely a little challenging to put together because there isn't much instruction on it and there are so many different size walls for the different cutouts. I don't have the original flow so can't compare to the building process for that one. But the base looks really nice on the original!
Yes - I mention late in the video about the locking piece - that was off for painting. Holds it together ok but doesnt fix the roof issue on the handles. Yes - mesh was included but I am definitely not running my hive like that. Its such an odd system (solid floor, mesh vent above with openings). Im gonna change it all around :D
Great to see a comparison video between the two. From the pros and cons so far it's definitely worth spending a little extra to get the official flow hive 🙂
I bought cheaper ones too but look little bit different,anyway they are about 70% full and hope soon will get honey out My were made in Australia apparently,who knows Generally i thing flow frames are not big deal if you enjoy beekeeping. I prefer old way
@@edotero5239 the price has gone up since I bought my last one December 2021 = Supply and demand = they then screw you. Is it Amazon or the Chinese who make them....... Can't fault them The cheapos are well worth it, that is if the plastic ( so called polyprop) holds up to the jet washer? The uncapped cells that are at the bottom row as seen in that wonderfully explicit photo with the honey backing up out of them seems to have not been noticed by some. The photographer must be saying to himself = seeing is believing? I wished we were more patient because if we had been we would have got an additional 9 lbs of lovely honey !
Love your video! Thank you for doing it! We are new to beekeeping, we bought one that originated from China, so not the original. But it does not come with the brood frames. Can someone tell me what size we need? I am thinking the deep, but I'm just not sure.
nice comparison however the flow hive you have is flow hive 2 the fake one is very much like the flow hive original . I currently only genuine flow hive version 1 6 frame , hybrid 3frame and a flow hive 2 7 frame so unfortunately this not comparing apples with apples
The cheapo Chinese Flow hives are 20mm thick and yes they are not as strong as some timber but what do you want for 170 quid? Some one mentioned Pine has a bad R value. Any wall can be insulated to correct that can't it?
@@BlackMountainHoney Laurence, You are very brave putting the link to Amazon ! Is Cedar too far away to keep an eye on what folks are saying in the UK? They have an advert which is supposed to be a forum on Facebook you know? Did you get the right one though at 170. I wonder if they've gone up?
Well..the fake one is better because it's made in China from unknown materials and they didnt have to research, develop or invest - the simply stole the design and cheaply manufactured it. So if cost value is all you care about then support China 100%, they dont recognise or adhere to trade practice acts or patents or intellectual property rights - but dont complain when manufacturing disappears from your own country.
@@JC-zv3cv manufacturing has almost disappeared in my country! Baby boomers already made that decision! With your logic don’t shop at Walmart or anywhere else for that matter because you are supporting china . And the flow hive isn’t manufactured in my country anyway so regardless I’d be supporting a foreign economy. I’ll tell you what I’ll spend my money how I want and you spend yours as you want
@@acd2505 " With your logic don’t shop at Walmart or anywhere else for that matter because you are supporting china " The walmart family are the wealthiest people in America by paying the lowest wages, alienating unions and buying the cheapest regardless of manufacture. Ive never shopped at walmart and never will. that said..i can shop and choose the product based upon where it is manufactured presumably stated upon the label and if i want cheap vaugely unreliable crap ..or an apple product i can choose to buy from China however, as a rule, i try to buy local and or sustainable..false economics is buying a cheap product repeatedly as opposed to a good product once. Dont blame baby boomers for putting profit before anything else, its an age old point of capitalism..before China it was vietnam/HongKong.Malaysia..strangely countries that are anti union anti workers rights anti health & safety tend to produce the cheapest means of production. Youre quite entitled to spend your money how you want, bare in mind consuming is a political decision with political implications, you can shop at a store that has self checkout, no customer service & no staff but you cant complain when there is high unemployment and high inflation because your consuming decisions have contributed to that situation. You can buy cheap knock offs from China as long as your comfortable knowing your supporting a regieme that has little compunction with workers dying on the job, forced labour and that by doing so you are encouraging your own country to not invest in R&D . I have no problem buying a authentic flow hive from Australia, ensuring it's manufactured in Australia even though it could have been made in China and saved the Australian company a huge amount of costs because it's important to support local australian companies that make a stand to locally manufacture.
@@BlackMountainHoney i understand and enjoy that, but testing products that have had their patents stolen is wrong. Either way it is still supporting that trade. Its sad that places like amazon and other sellers support this theft business by selling alot of the products that have been pirated by china and others. I hope people see this video as a reason not to buy too cheap, and to support inventors of products. Not theives. Thank you.
@@AmericansBee Jeff Bezos if that's his name does not give a stuff about loyalty. He is more bothered about who to sack on his millions of $ yacht. Murphy's law always happens in China = the wild west of patents?
@@AmericansBee Most of the electronics we buy are soon obsolete by intent. The south Koreans who have the technology that leads the world have kept their latest 'projects' a secret so that they can make money later. That seems sensible. The Chinese are not bad engineers when all is said and done. Because many of them even the cleaver ones work for a pittance compared to the rest of the word is it not them who should get business?
you need to put the super on the other way, so you can harvest the honey away from the entrance for the bees :)
Yes - it's just to show all the faces in the same field of view for the video 😀
I have both and have put both to use. I have two Flow hives and one knockoff. I should clarify that I built an exact replica of the Flow hive (using cedar and giving it the same angle on the base) and then bought the knockoff frames to try them out in a super.
The knockoffs are made of acrylic, which is considered to be food grade plastic. I personally don't question as much of what comes out of China as I did 30 years ago, and I'm certain that many of the items in my kitchen are made in China. For now, they work exactly the same as the Flow hive in terms of the bees filling them with honey and extracting the honey. (This does make me wonder, why haven't I researched what kind of plastic is used in foundation? Have you? I haven't even wondered, until right now.)
They came with the turn key and the extraction tubes, but the tubes lack the anti-drip notch. Other than that the appear to function exactly the same. At the end of the day, my bees filled both and I harvested from both the same way, but for a fraction of the cost. If they prove to be durable then I think Flow will likely have to adjust their pricing.
Its the little things where you really notice the difference. Not sure Flow will adjust the pricing though. Only seems to be heading one way
@@BlackMountainHoney Laurence --- Sorry I quoted the wrong price at Amazon they have increased from 170 December 2021 to 220 today -28 Jul 22 the free one day delivery appeals The brand is Kakasa. I cannot find anything wrong with my two hives at all.
It's now March 2024 and they sell them for $1100 without a stand or the fancy table they now have. I decided against the purchase and just yesterday eBay popped up with a knock off. I didn't know they made knockoffs but after checking the reviews of someone who sold 260+ I decided to pull the trigger. I paid $190 for it from a seller in California.
The reviews were almost all positive so I'm excited to see how well it actually is made.
@@frederickorcutt9112update?
couple things, at 7:20 if you had the top board on it doesn't hit the handles. I'm in Florida and like the screened ones they provide, also on the 3 fake flow hives I've purchased there's a turnable piece of wood to hold the top and bottom piece in.
Brave move, significant investment. I do agree with not supporting knockoffs, but I do believe the flow hive is overpriced. Personally, I believe that the price will be justified if the fake flow frames won't perform as the original. If the fakes perform as well as the original, then it is just an overpriced product.
Can wait for the result, as you can 3-4 fake ones with the price of the original.
Thanks for taking the charge.
Cheers Mauricio. Agreed. This video/review isnt really designed to support one over the other.
My natural curiosity of an £800 versus £200 product just got the better of me.
End result may well be, steer clear of the cheap knock offs, they aren't up to scratch. If that's the case, doesn't matter how cheap they are.
I am interested in the design patent issue though. Flow must have not had lengthy or watertight patents as they are copied without any fear of persecution it seems.
When you say "overpriced" I would challenge that there are a few more things to keep in mind when it comes to what Flow Hive costs vs the knock-offs.
R&D Costs $$ - The Anderson family (Stuart and Cedar Anderson) spent years working on developing this technology. This took not only their time but easily $100k+ of their own money. Creating a product, protecting their designs with patents, and starting a business all costs money. This is called R&D and small family businesses like the Anderson family’s business often goes for years before recouping these costs and turning a profit. The Chinese company that produces these just cloned their work disregarding their patent and intellectual property rights. This is a practice that most other countries do not allow but China has used for decades and purchasing from them continues to promote this despicable practice.
Smaller Companies Have Higher Manufacturing Costs - Unlike the Chinese company, the Anderson Family has to pay for manufacturing costs, meet set standards for food safe plastics and designs, and pay all the other fees involved in producing their product. While the Flow hive has gained popularity over the past few years, this is still a niche product that is made in smaller quantities. Therefore, it cost them significantly more to manufacture these hives and ship them internationally. The Chinese company can pump these out with no regard for regulations or ethical employee practices. Quality control and inspections of the chemical composition of the plastics is not regulated.
Flow Hive Provides More Than A Product (And Most of it is free) - Those who use the knock-off frames will still likely go to the Flow Hive website, forum, and weekly TH-cam videos to find tips, tricks, and additional support and education. The Anderson family provides all this at no additional cost. The number of quality resources they provide is astounding and has gotten so many new people into bee keeping. How truly despicable it would be use a knock-off flow hive while still benefitting from all the knowledge support they provide.
Just because something is more expensive than you want to pay doesn't make it "overpriced" especially when you consider the cost of supporting knock-off Chinese competitors. I would submit that, as fellow bee keepers, we should support them, the work they have put into it, and the continuing service they provide. If you are unable to afford their product, then there are traditional methods that work just fine. Supporting our bee keeping community and participating in the most ethical practices should be our highest priority - not buying ethically questionable products because they are the cheapest. We should not benefit from the hard work of the Anderson family and the support their small business provides while paying a Chinese kock-off company.
@@stemwisevidsThe hive2 cedar model is $1000 vs a China made cedar version for under $200. We are now multiple years after the invention hit the market for several hundred dollars less. It feels similar to the guy who had that medicine and jacked up the price knowing no one had a comparable. Until there is competition the pricing can be inflated to whatever number they want.
I applaud the invention and business regardless. They have to make money, it's a business after all!
They just can't be upset when people smarten up and grab 4 knockoffs for the same investment that will perform the same. As time passes those knockoffs may even surpass the original in innovation. The question is can they do it to scale if they want to?
I have 2 flow hives and found them brilliant with no problems at all, with your hive you should have also received a bamboo Queen excluder and a wire mesh inner cover that goes above the plastic flow frames which stops the roof from catching the small handles ( never bothered putting mine on); also mine came wax dipped which I think might last a season and then I will either paint or use linseed oil to treat.
I did indeed. I hate bamboo excluders and top mesh is not good IMO. But, that depth is definitely required to stop the roof catching! Cheers
@@BlackMountainHoney Another thing you need to be wary of….only put your key into the slot about a third of the way to release honey! When it has started to flow for a minute you can then insert it the rest of the way and crack the rest of the cells open…stops a rush of honey that can spill over into the frames, makes it easier to crack the frames open as well also 2 keys at the same time if you have them….easier than you think this flow frame malarkey lol.
@@takemeaerialphotography1869 That's a great tip! Thank you 😀
Bloody good job the Chinese flow hive was a Langstroth. Bigger and I found better I'd say than the paltry 5 frame National nuc I bought June 11th this year. Had to cable tie the frames inside of the Langstroth frames.
No where near the amount of bees compared with the Langstroth deeps I bought last July.
Brand new to bee keeping this season. Placed a big swarm in one 7 flow frame (10 frame Langstroth) hive on the 22nd October and harvested two frames on 20th January. They started with 10 wax foundation frames but that is all. One other frame full and the others all have some nectar. The other hive had a much smaller swarm placed in it on 25th September and I would have harvested one frame on the weekend except for the dreadful weather. There are many things that I appreciate about the real flow hive. The stand, the ant guards on the legs, the tray. I love the roof - because it is like a bee house :). It is great to be able to look into the super at the front and back and watch the bees. I can harvest without suiting up and without disturbing the bees. I don't need to wait for the super to be full before harvesting. Just that one frame. Most of this is completely irrelevant to a professional beekeeper, but to the backyard beekeeper it all adds to the experience. My greatest trepidation is that as they are swarms I will need to re-queen next spring. I will feel like a usurper. Thanks for the videos. I really enjoy them.
Thanks MrSpot
@Sam Kabamm It is true I am new to beekeeping. My two hives did well in summer and are still going OK though - now in the middle of winter. I feel sorry for people who only know how to belittle others. Their life is truly hollow.
@@mrspot234 It's best to ignore the anti Flow framers. This is because almost all of them have never seen a Flow Hive and if they do have one they are not using it in a proper manner. If this is the case they and anyone else for that matter should find time to watch Frederick Dunn's expert findings on Flow hives.
He is the only instructor to watch if the best is being sort. = You Tube The way to bee. North east
USA Pa, therefore dispelling the myth that Flow hives are no good in the UK! However the Flow hive is not a good choice if fields of Rape are within foraging distance. If that is the case no flow super should be put on until the rape has gone.
See Freds advice re no flow frames put on until the box/boxes of brood are 80% full of resources.
@@michaelhall7921 Thanks. I like to watch Frederick Dunn as well. (as well as Mr No Nonsense of course!)
@@mrspot234 I don't know why some call them fake. The Chinese are not just good at copying but are professional innovators as well. There is some rubbish as well but Paypal gets your money back.
Fred has helped me immensely and I doubt we would have got the 40lbs of honey without sticking to all his advice.
Did you see he has too much honey?
Our bees are already filling the flow hive of 2021 ( left it all to the bees) for the second time.
I purchased both a FlowHive 2+ and the fake “Auto Flow” (Chinese version) box and frames that will be used on top of an Apimaye Plastic Insulated hive. Both will be moved outside this Spring.
Good luck with them :D Hope they work out for you
Update 2023 - last year I harvested 36 pounds from the Chinese flow hive, zero pounds from the original.
radwamsley3465 what happened to the original one? Why no honey? Which knock off did you but? Thanks
This was so very helpful and I'm super grateful.
Ya, Flow Hive for some reason made all of their langstroth boxes to be a tad shorter in width. WHY????? Don't know, but does not make any sense. It's frustrating trying to add shims and other roofs.
There are a couple factors why I would never buy the Fake Flow Hive. For one, I don't believe bees should live in a pine box. It's the worst wood possible to keep bees in. It rots easy, its a cheap wood, and barely has a R-Value for retaining heat which is so essential for bees. Second, over and over I have heard that the Fake Flow Frame simply don't work well. They won't open and close correctly, that hive beetles can get inside the upper chambers, that that there is no way in telling if they are made with Food Grade plastic--which is sooooo important if your going to be storing honey them them.
As for the Flow Hives, I own two, and I can tell you from experience, owning them is like owning a fine piece of furniture--you won't find a better built hive. And I think everyone that has one would agree with me. The attention to detail is solid. And the wood, which is either Cedar or Australian Araucaria wood, which are both superior woods. Their Flow Frames work perfectly. And ya, the base--what a design!!!! What I don't care about is the price. Really, 800-900$??? I get that its an invention and I respect that, but come one. If they were cheaper I would buy more, but two is enough for me. The only complaint I have is that it is you are not able to add an entrance reducer to this hive. So you have to make your own which I did. Mike over at The Guardian Hive Entrance help me using his 3-D printer.
Again, thanks for doing such a great job with the reviews my friend. Brad at the Brass Bee Apiary
Thanks Brad. So frustrating on the sizing isnt it. Is it intended to lock people in? Cant think of another valid reason
@@BlackMountainHoney Yes, it always to lock people in. All the big companies do it. But it's always based on greed. I don't care for it.
Could not afford a ridiculous priced one so have got 2 from A who are not worried about patents and neither are their suppliers. These two hives are identical so there must be a big maker. Fred Dunn gave an impartial review in 2015 and the 'finger joints' on the genuine F H were not machined well at all and they were well out of tolerance. Any engineer watching that review would take a dim view of that expensive kit not having accurate joints. These two cheap ( as far as it goes) copies work great. Yes additions are needed such as the OMF and catch tray if common sense tells the beekeeper that varroa that drop need checking and treating.
An additional brood box is sensible in many instances. What does one expect for £170?
Thanks for the comparison and evaluation that was informative. What major adjustments you recommend making on the fake flowhive.
Thanks for sharing Laurence, will be very interesting to compare theses.
Cheers HH. Hope you are well and ready for the season!
@@BlackMountainHoney I’m good thanks Laurence 😊 I’m getting itchy feet and can’t wait for March to roll around 😆😆. Keep up the great work and stay safe.
Just a couple of points: As noted earlier you've got the supers on wrong way round. The flow super does come in a 10 frame size as well. The reason the flow boxes are slightly smaller is because the wood has been run through a planer, like furniture quality wood. I've also got both and standard langstroth hives too and I must say as far as fit and finish real Flow-Hives win hands down. Does that justify the price? not for me but the difference is impressive.
Fair play putting the money on the table and getting one to try! I am a little torn when it comes to supporting people/companies that rip off products..
I am with you there but it shouldnt really get to that point if the design protection is in place. I am here to provide unbiased reviews to help inform people's purchasing decisions. I think the Original won this round :D
The Chinese government are communist scum who don't give a damn about international law or copyright infringement. Also, their workforce have no human rights and are exploited to the hilt.
No? If the flow hive can not produce their product at a lower price a equivalent product with a lower price will drive them off the market, as capital intended. This is economic 101. Capitalism keeps the best product cheap . you are the scum if you do not understand that and instead defending a multi million dollar company intentionally charges you more for they product.
flow frame produced in same company
@@BlackMountainHoney Some one rightly said China is the wild west of patents! 170 quid is a big attraction if the buyer is short of cash and came first in joinery way back in 1956.....
A buyer can buy all sorts of stuff off Amazon who are flexible with the Chinese... Lol.
My bees won't work the Chinese plastic frames, the did go up into them and started to seal them ready to fill but then abandoned them.
My Buckfast bees love em. The frames were that crowded not another bee could get at the frames.
What size foundation frames do you need for the brood box
I assume the standard for the 8 frame specifies an internal length and width to fit the standard frames inside. If the wall material is a different thickness material, you will end up with boxes of differing outside length and width. However, these different boxes might still conform to that standard. Best to match your boxes from the same range of the same manufacturer, maybe.
I'd probably accept that. My internal flow boxes have different internal dimensions. You can almost get 9 frames in the 8 frame - but not quite
@@BlackMountainHoney heres the standerd acording to flow a 6 frame flowhive is based on a 8 frame lang a 7 frame flowhive is based on a 10 frame lang
Is it OK to use pva glue when putting together a bee hive like this? What can I use other than paint to protect the timber inside and out? Can I use a mix of bees wax and boiled linseed oil?
Answered on live stream 17/02/22
G'day Laurence, I'm looking forward to seeing how this testing progresses. I have a Flow Hive 2 that is going great guns at the moment. I have bought a 2nd brood box through Flow to use on it, especially because they don't quite match with the standard Langstroth ones. They are expensive.....
The biggest fault I have found with mine is the honey leaking down into the brood box when harvested. I have been taking the frames out and opening them over a plastic tub inside my house. The first harvest I lost about half a kg of honey from 3 frames.
I've done a bit of research and I believe that my bees have put the wax capping on very close to the plastic frame. The actual idea is that they cap the honey further out from the plastic, leaving the capping all intact when you turn the key and move the plastic cells underneath. My capping just came apart when I opened the cells up, hence the honey falling straight down and out instead of running down the tunnel to the tube outside. Hope this all makes sense.
I believe the more I use the frames, the further out the capping will be, as the bees get in and fix up the cells as soon as that honey is gone.
Hope this is helpful.
I really love your videos, even though, I think I've said before, I'm in Australia and conditions here are total opposite to yours.
Take care
Hi Michelle. Very helpful indeed. Thanks for the tip. :D
I don't know anything about beekeeping, Michelle, but I was watching a 'Flow Hive' video made by an expert and he recommended that you tilt the hive a little from front to back and this stops the honey dripping on the bees during the extraction.
@@wolfenstein6676 Newer Flowhives come with two built in spirit levels. The front to back one is set at about 5 degrees tilt so that when the bubble is 'level' it's actually at the correct tilt angle for harvesting.
@dicky mint That's a great idea, a pre-set spirit level at the correct angle. Thanks for the info'.
About honey running inside the hive with extractions--you will find on your second or third go around it will stop. Also, make sure in your first couple extractions to only open one frame at a time, and only open 1/3 of the frame at a time. This way if they do leak, it gives the bees time to clean up. No need in taking them out.
Do you have any trouble with condensation in the catch tray
You have having trouble with the roof cause you put it on backwards. If you turn it around and it fits without hitting the knobs
Shall be interesting to see if the fake flow hive frames work well or not. Had seen these myself and always wondered.
Fingers crossed
Have the Anderson’s even applied for a patent
?. They seem more interested in getting more people to look after bees to help pollinate the planet.I have herd they’ve donated flow hives to poor countries and they gave away honey to animal shelters to treat our wildlife after our bushfires.There’s no way I would have bees if it weren’t for flow hives.In one year I’ve gone from one colony to five and enjoying everything about them.thanks for the videos from my old country regards ray.
I am not sure. I have heard so much about their philanthropy and its just amazing. Fair play to them. Id be surprised if they weren't covered by some sort of design infringement mechanism though. Maybe it just doesnt cover China!
I agree with you Ray. there is no way, living in NYC, I would start back with beekeeping unless it was a flow hive, Infact, hearing about them was the reason I returned to beekeeping.
They took a writ out and a court case followed but it was unsuccessful. The writer said China is the wild west of patents. Seems a bit like Putin doing whatever he thinks is right for him but the world does not agree.
Buying the original that's been superseded would be the one to buy, there's no question about that but it's down to the money isn't it.
We'd all like a BMW 4x4 but have to be thankful of a Toyota Landcruiser brand new 2003.
Plenty of folks would be better off with a Landcruiser than a Nissan but the LC is quite a bit dearer but the LC pixxes all over the Nissan. It's down to the money but there is not all that difference in the genuine F H compared to the copy. Not three times as much re price, definitely not.
The copy works and delivers just the same amount of honey as spending three times as much.
Looking forward to all these reviews and videos - hoping the original Flow turns out better!
Thanks Ian. Be good to see how they compare although I have a sneaky feeling who the winner will be
if the genuin flowhive is a flowhive 2+ than its made of Western Red Cedar
Timber if its a flowhive 2 than its made of Araucaria
Timber
Hi Laurence, some info and observations to help your ongoing reviews 🙂
The Flow Hive you have is not the original it's a Flow Hive 2.
They have a classic, Flow Hive 2 and Flow Hive 2+.
Yours is red cedar apart from the extra brood box that's pine.
The fake flow hive:
Was there a crown board? That's why the roof won't fit.
Did it have a harvesting key?
What's the mesh board for that came with it? Thier version of a crown board!
Flow hive 2 harvesting tubes and harvesting channel on the bottom of the frames are different. There is no back Flow channel on the fake flow hive and the harvesting tubes do not have the nib that fits into the back Flow channel to clear any wax or propolis to allow residual honey to drain into the brood box and for the bees to drink the small amount of left over honey in the channel.
Your missing the locking block on the fake flow hive harvest door to lock in the door and top harvesting access panel.
The classic Flow Hive has wooden nobs same as the fake flow hive.
The fake flow hive is based on the original classic Flow Hive.
The fake flow hive does not have the built in 3 degree slope to the rear to support harvesting which the classic Flow Hive it copies has.
Cheers Dean and thanks for clearing any confusion. When I said original, I meant 'not fake'.
handy you having you on board isn't it! 😀
@@BlackMountainHoney I firmly believe the cause of honey dripping ( if indeed that does happen) onto either the brood box below the flow frame or goes further down onto the catch tray is caused by backing up through any uncapped cell or cells. Frederick Dunn observes that it is the centre rear bottom cells in the Flow super that gets capped last.
That would resolve for me, looking at the problem through the eyes of an engineer, the fact that a small amount of honey was seen exactly below the centre of the 7 Flow frames and I noted that I was too impatient and the centre frame at bottom was not totally full either. Each frame should give a good 4 pints. This was so re the outer frame. the others were not full enough to match the outer frame to the tune of at least 1/2 pint.
Murphy's law happened again I think? If a cell is not capped then honey can come out of that cell and all the flow will not go down the 1" tube,
Tilting the hive at a steeper angle may well make matters worse not better!
It would have been difficult to have bigger tubes but I have bought 45 deg bends to lessen the resistance to the flow. These bends will be tight up to the frames and eliminate the 4", nigh on horizontal pipes. Best Wishes
Hi Laurence. Can you do a short video on camouflaging your hives? Why you do it, how you do it, what kind of paint, where you can buy the colours, etc? Thanks.
He's already done one. Look back in his historic uploads
Hi. There are a couple on the site - just search for paint on our homepage. In terms of paint, we use quick colour from Rustoleum. Black, Dark Grey, Brown and Oxford green are the colours
Thanks a lot.
The two flow hive has a wooden patch that holds the top bar and the rear cover in place
Hold up... you're missing the inner covers... the inner covers are what make the pieces stand off from the roof.
You are right! It lifts it up! Thanks for pointing that out :D
Great comparison. I think there’s something wrong with the way you’ve put together the super, because the top piece that comes out to insert the key should be able to come out without moving the roof. I will post this comment with a photo of mine on the Facebook post.
I didnt put it together but the super/roof is back to front for the video. Pics always welcome :D
@@BlackMountainHoney I’ve posted pics on Facebook post for you to see 👍🏻
@@AdeRowswell Perfect. Thanks Ade! Problem solved. Nice one
I bought a fake flow hive as well, but the wood was actually cedar. As I live in Oklahoma, where it gets pretty hot in the Summer, the extra ventilation provided by those holes in the roof will come in very handy. I used an extra bottom screen board I had as an inner cover though to cut off the bees using those top holes for an entrance. Haven't actually added the flow super yet as it was a new hive and they haven't finished their 2nd brood box yet. May not be able to try the flow super until next year.
I'm in Oklahoma as well. Would be interested in how it goes. I have two 2nd year hives who survived their first winter, but would draw comb when I put honey supers on. Trying to find a good way to get some honey!
@@jz1552 The dry spell we had really slowed down my bees, so I won't be seeing any honey this year. I have a plan for next year if we get hit with another hot fry spell. I've built multiple raised flower beds I'm going to plant multiple varieties of flowers and veggies to keep the bees fat and happy with pollen and nectar.
@@LoneWolf0568 We have some land we've thought about putting in a bee-friendly flower. Was wondering if these flow hives helped with getting the bees to produce. Sounds like you get the same results regardless if you don't have strong nectar flow.
@@jz1552 Exactly same if not a strong nectar flow. You can feed to simulate the nectar but I have heard that you don't want to eat honey made from sugar syrup. Something about taste. I am in the process of building as many raised flower beds as I can so I can avoid the problem of low nectar flows. It won't do me any good this year but should next year
after 11 months would you rather have 4 fakes or one real... if your happy to spend the full wack
Looking forwards to seeing how you get on with these, have picked up a long flow hive for this year and also have some fake flow frames to try too
Looks like your fake is missing some parts that my fake came with. The wooden queen excluder, the hardware wire screen(goes between the honey super and roof) and the operable double hive entrance. Came with 4 honey extraction tubes, wrench, extra caps for tube holes and honey frame wrench. I couldn’t see dropping $1000 on a flow when eBay had the fake for $189 new. That’s painted white with a blue wood roof. Honestly that’s over $300-400 cheaper than a standard Langstroth 10 frame with a deep and a medium super with telescopic roof and a screen bottom board with a drawer.
That wire screen missing is the reason your roof doesn’t fit right. There should be a board to mount on the access covers side to secure by turning to lock in place.
Make sure to wax the auto frames and flow frames with melted down beeswax or the bees won’t use them. Best of luck to you.
I bought the original flow hive 2+. It was beautiful. However, this fall when it came to harvesting, not one cell of honey was in their honey super. I used the super on an existing hive that was very healthy. Is this normal? I am now not sure if I want to use it again in the spring. It was over $1,000 and I’m thinking I should have done more research. I added beeswax onto the frames as I read that the bees would take to the frames better. All summer there were bees in the super so I thought they were just filling them from the middle. Any suggestions? The rest of the hive is great.
please tell us if the bees will make honey on the fake flow hive, thank you.
I'll be doing regular videos this year 😀
@@BlackMountainHoney thank you, looking forward for it.
We got 40 lbs of lovely honey two weeks ago from a cheapo Chinese Flow hive. An additional brood /super box is need here anyway otherwise the bees would have busted at the seams! Under the Flow hive that is.
Hi Lawrence, yea the real one looks good compared to the fake one, question which site did you buy the fake one from I’m only asking because I’m looking at ali baba to buy frames and foundation they seem a lot cheaper coming out of China than the prices in our UK stores, 10 frames, 10 foundation UK price £28 , Chinese price 100 frames and foundation £14-99 that’s a big difference there mate, maybe anyone who has used the Ali baba site could put us wise to the dos and donts of buying from this site . Even the price of say a 10 frame langstroth that’s a ventilated floor one brood box and two honey supers with crown board and a stainless steel roof oh and all the frames and foundation all for £25 -00 it seems to good to be true.
Have you ever bought from it before, Mark? I have nearly did but the time you get to paying the money the cost of shipping, fees, insurance, VAT, duty, customs etc - the price is many times what is on that home page. I got mine from Amazon. Search flow hive - there is only one
@@BlackMountainHoney thx Lawrence I knew it was going to be too good to be true, sadly with pricing on everything going up and up it’s a case off having to shop around.
Carefully look at A but scrutinise every one of the Chinese and other hives. With prime you get free delivery.
Where did you buy the fake flow hive?
The difference in price makes the lesser design worth it. I can buy 3 liters of honey for 20 Euro. It would take a long time for ROI for the original flow hive price. Like many years...
Look forward to your review with both flow hives, and if they are worth the money compared to norm Langstroth hive box. The fake flow hive is half the price to the original one. Cheers from Vancouver island Canada.
Me too! Ill be sure to keep you all updated :D
We are currently in the process of buying land to build a self sustained home, off Gird woth a bnb, this might sound very ignorant, but I have no knowledge of bee keeping, but is there the same maintenance in a flow hive, how often do you have to inspect the hibe and so on, thank you
Exactly the same amount of care and maintenance as a normal hive. Just don't need an extractor. Good luck with your project. Sounds awesome 👌
@@BlackMountainHoney thank you for taking the time to reply
Is ther feake flow hive for sale i Europe ?
I’m interested in getting one of these for my garden however pricing seems to be the biggest issues lol
Fantastic video, really looking forward to seeing how your get on with these hives. I wanted to try the flow hive but just can't justify getting a langstroth hive when I only have 14x12 nationals. I'm still hopping they re start making the flow national supers but not sure they will. Anyway hope your well man all the best to you
Cheers BHB. Yes - I hope they do they am as well. I think they would sell well in the UK
What are National supers???
@@bradgoliphant they are supers designed to fit on national boxes rather than langstroth. Hope that helps
Boycott fake flow hives !
China always has to but in and try to take away from Americans....BOYCOT china !
What is the paint make
use some counter sinking magnets to hold up little pieces of wood
Dude you need to turn your super 180
So the entrance is at the front and the access to the flow frames is at the back
It's to show all the important bits on camera at the same time. They live the other way round 😀
Looks like you missed some of the main pieces for the fake hive that cover some of the issues you brought up (I'm halfway through the video, I'll leave another comment if there are more things is).
There is a wooden piece that you screw in that goes in between the piece that keeps falling out, and the door to the flow holes. You rotate that wooden piece to lock both of the pieces with handles so they don't fall out.
The holes in the roof aren't designed to be upper entrances, they are ventilation holes. There is a mesh inner cover that should have come with it that goes between the top of the flow super and the roof.
The fake one was definitely a little challenging to put together because there isn't much instruction on it and there are so many different size walls for the different cutouts. I don't have the original flow so can't compare to the building process for that one. But the base looks really nice on the original!
Yes - I mention late in the video about the locking piece - that was off for painting. Holds it together ok but doesnt fix the roof issue on the handles.
Yes - mesh was included but I am definitely not running my hive like that. Its such an odd system (solid floor, mesh vent above with openings). Im gonna change it all around :D
I have one but last year my bees didn't like the plastic frames they sealed them ready to use but then abandoned them.
Oh dear! Hopefully mine wont just leave!
@@BlackMountainHoney mine didn't leave they just wouldn't put honey in the flow frames.
Did you paint bees wax on them? I’ve seen videos of bee keepers doing that with all of their plastic frames.
Great to see a comparison video between the two. From the pros and cons so far it's definitely worth spending a little extra to get the official flow hive 🙂
Totally agree from a first look!
A little extra? The original is more than three times the price
I bought cheaper ones too but look little bit different,anyway they are about 70% full and hope soon will get honey out
My were made in Australia apparently,who knows
Generally i thing flow frames are not big deal if you enjoy beekeeping. I prefer old way
I like to try new things out and just couldnt resist the Flow Hive. The design is so cool!
Great review, be interesting how the Chinese hive holds up. 👍
any updates on this hive??
Where is the link to the fake flowhive?
Wooden Bee Hive House Kit... www.amazon.co.uk/dp/B09JP15RP5?ref=ppx_pop_mob_ap_share
Thank you
@@edotero5239 170 quid plus another 'langstroth' box & frames
@@edotero5239 the price has gone up since I bought my last one December 2021 = Supply and demand = they then screw you. Is it Amazon or the Chinese who make them....... Can't fault them
The cheapos are well worth it, that is if the plastic ( so called polyprop) holds up to the jet washer?
The uncapped cells that are at the bottom row as seen in that wonderfully explicit photo with the honey backing up out of them seems to have not been noticed by some. The photographer must be saying to himself = seeing is believing?
I wished we were more patient because if we had been we would have got an additional 9 lbs of lovely honey !
Love your video! Thank you for doing it! We are new to beekeeping, we bought one that originated from China, so not the original. But it does not come with the brood frames. Can someone tell me what size we need? I am thinking the deep, but I'm just not sure.
nice comparison however the flow hive you have is flow hive 2 the fake one is very much like the flow hive original . I currently only genuine flow hive version 1 6 frame , hybrid 3frame and a flow hive 2 7 frame
so unfortunately this not comparing apples with apples
Flow hive uses cedar and the wood is thinner wood than traditional boxes that's probably part of why it doesn't line up.
The cheapo Chinese Flow hives are 20mm thick and yes they are not as strong as some timber but what do you want for 170 quid? Some one mentioned Pine has a bad R value. Any wall can be insulated to correct that can't it?
Yeh I always wanted to buy a flow hive but it's little bit expensive and don't know how to use it
Now we can learn 😂!
Hopefully its helpful for you :D
@@BlackMountainHoney Laurence, You are very brave putting the link to Amazon ! Is Cedar too far away to keep an eye on what folks are saying in the UK? They have an advert which is supposed to be a forum on Facebook you know? Did you get the right one though at 170. I wonder if they've gone up?
Nice
The only real difference is the floor. But from this video, so far fake for the win at cost value. Subscribed
Well..the fake one is better because it's made in China from unknown materials and they didnt have to research, develop or invest - the simply stole the design and cheaply manufactured it.
So if cost value is all you care about then support China 100%, they dont recognise or adhere to trade practice acts or patents or intellectual property rights - but dont complain when manufacturing disappears from your own country.
@@JC-zv3cv manufacturing has almost disappeared in my country! Baby boomers already made that decision! With your logic don’t shop at Walmart or anywhere else for that matter because you are supporting china . And the flow hive isn’t manufactured in my country anyway so regardless I’d be supporting a foreign economy. I’ll tell you what I’ll spend my money how I want and you spend yours as you want
@@acd2505 " With your logic don’t shop at Walmart or anywhere else for that matter because you are supporting china "
The walmart family are the wealthiest people in America by paying the lowest wages, alienating unions and buying the cheapest regardless of manufacture.
Ive never shopped at walmart and never will.
that said..i can shop and choose the product based upon where it is manufactured presumably stated upon the label and if i want cheap vaugely unreliable crap ..or an apple product i can choose to buy from China however, as a rule, i try to buy local and or sustainable..false economics is buying a cheap product repeatedly as opposed to a good product once.
Dont blame baby boomers for putting profit before anything else, its an age old point of capitalism..before China it was vietnam/HongKong.Malaysia..strangely countries that are anti union anti workers rights anti health & safety tend to produce the cheapest means of production.
Youre quite entitled to spend your money how you want, bare in mind consuming is a political decision with political implications, you can shop at a store that has self checkout, no customer service & no staff but you cant complain when there is high unemployment and high inflation because your consuming decisions have contributed to that situation. You can buy cheap knock offs from China as long as your comfortable knowing your supporting a regieme that has little compunction with workers dying on the job, forced labour and that by doing so you are encouraging your own country to not invest in R&D .
I have no problem buying a authentic flow hive from Australia, ensuring it's manufactured in Australia even though it could have been made in China and saved the Australian company a huge amount of costs because it's important to support local australian companies that make a stand to locally manufacture.
fake one is acacia no pine
Its not fake!
WAit another 12 months and redo this reveiw.
Buying stolen innovation is shameful.
Live Q and A Comments Stream - 11th Feb
Follow up yet?
yep
I own many of both of these hives and I'm slowly getting rid of the chinese ones and replacing them with the genuine ones.
Your brood box is not made by Flowhive.
None of it is?
@@BlackMountainHoney your brood box on your flow hive I mean.
@@larrydawson8079 it's one flow hive brood box plus 1 x extra non flow box
The fact that you bought and supported theft of a patented item is sad! You dont need to review something the chinese stole!!
This channel is all about unbiased reviews and informing the end user. The original flow hive was quite clearly the winner of this video anyway :D
@@BlackMountainHoney i understand and enjoy that, but testing products that have had their patents stolen is wrong. Either way it is still supporting that trade. Its sad that places like amazon and other sellers support this theft business by selling alot of the products that have been pirated by china and others. I hope people see this video as a reason not to buy too cheap, and to support inventors of products. Not theives. Thank you.
@@AmericansBee Jeff Bezos if that's his name does not give a stuff about loyalty. He is more bothered about who to sack on his millions of $ yacht. Murphy's law always happens in China = the wild west of patents?
@@AmericansBee Most of the electronics we buy are soon obsolete by intent. The south Koreans who have the technology that leads the world have kept their latest 'projects' a secret so that they can make money later. That seems sensible. The Chinese are not bad engineers when all is said and done. Because many of them even the cleaver ones work for a pittance compared to the rest of the word is it not them who should get business?
@@michaelhall7921 absolutely NOT at the expense of the creator who
has their ideas STOLEN!!! WTF