Which 1960's Fighter Could Perform The Quickest Bomber Intercept? | DCS
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 15 ต.ค. 2022
- 1910's WWI: • Which 1910's WWI Fight...
1940's WWII: • Which 1940's WWII Figh...
1940/50's: • Which 1940/50's Jet Fi...
1960's (Attempt 1 of 2): • Which 1960's Fighter C...
1970's (Attempt 1 of 2): • Which 1970's Fighter C...
1970's (Attempt 2 of 2): • IMPROVED & EXPANDED Wh...
1980's (Attempt 1 of 2): • Which 1980's Fighter C...
1980's (Attempt 2 of 2): • IMPROVED & EXPANDED Wh...
2000's: • Which 2000's+ Fighter ...
Of All Time: • Which Is The Fastest I...
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1910's WWI: th-cam.com/video/KW9py7vYYdg/w-d-xo.html
1940's WWII: th-cam.com/video/9Q_9G-bUsVY/w-d-xo.html
1940/50's: th-cam.com/video/IbystBLIYqA/w-d-xo.html
1960's (Attempt 1 of 2): th-cam.com/video/2KcH7XcHUR8/w-d-xo.html
1970's (Attempt 1 of 2): th-cam.com/video/7yyt2tW27qA/w-d-xo.html
1970's (Attempt 2 of 2): th-cam.com/video/OF5hvCX2a_4/w-d-xo.html
1980's (Attempt 1 of 2): th-cam.com/video/aZbcXuCrWNU/w-d-xo.html
1980's (Attempt 2 of 2): th-cam.com/video/uxNjDFcTDo4/w-d-xo.html
2000's: th-cam.com/video/uag8oqQ0aQc/w-d-xo.html
Of All Time: th-cam.com/video/X29N9TI7rdQ/w-d-xo.html
F105 is actually a quite fast aircraft, it can do mach 2.1. It was meant as a missile/interceptor outrunning bomber, has a quite powerful afterburning j75 of 26500 lbf. It was replaced in that role in vietnam by the f4 because it had no agility at all and was defenseless against VC mig 21s.
Like back in the 50s, making superfast bombers was important, if cold war turned hot it was all about getting that payload to the other side as fast as possible, and before the mig 21 the soviets had nothing that could even do mach 2, the f105 must have been a nightmare for them. But in the 60s/70s they realized that not even the fastest bomber can outrun the missiles. So thats how the supersonic bomber died
The BAE Lightning could break the sound barrier in a vertical climb, 20 000ft per min, climb to at least 60 000ft and exceed Mk 2.2.
This makes it my pick for the ultimate winner here
It could also super-cruise. So there F-22!
Just what I was thinking..... 👍
didn’t one Lightening intercept a U2 It was only that specific Lightening that could do it. 😂 th-cam.com/video/8DdUwIhI-ZA/w-d-xo.html
30,000 ft in less than 3 mins. The English Electric Lightning beat the F104 in tests and could intercept a U2 at 80k+ ft
But would it have enough fuel?
Those clever modders need to get the Lightning and Drakken in game. Definitely one for a future revisit.
agreed
Yeah I was looking for Draken (The Dragon) as well
The British Electric Lightning, The English Electric Lightning is a twin-engine, sweep-wing, single-seat, supersonic fighter. Developed to bring the RAF into the supersonic age, the aircraft could fly at twice the speed of sound. The Lightning was an incredible leap forward in performance and technology. In fact, it had such a power-to-weight ratio that it could stand on its tail and exceed the speed of sound in a vertical climb. Mach 1 in the vertical climb is speedy and Mach 2 in normal flight is 1535 + mph for a sixties fighter.
Tech wise the Lightning was marginal. The radar had an arc of only 40 degrees which was considerably less than most of its rivals. Endurance was poor but sufficient for a 'stand off' interceptor.
Performance was phenomenal but the plane required constant maintenence.
My best friends dad was an RAF technician.
The 2 seat trainer version was quicker than the single seat version! also very thirsty
In exercises Lightnings successfully carried out intercepts of U2s at +60,000 feet, one South African Lightening even reached 83,000.
But it was SO ugly. lol
Yes it was faster than the seat intercept but first flew in the 50's. The British had to wait until the Eurofighter for something with better performance.
The F-105 had a beast of an engine - the Pratt & Whitney J75. 26,500 lb thrust with water injection.
105 The thud. Known for the sound it made after you loose control.
Copy thanks.
@@Michael-rg7mx Actually. It's the sound of it slamming into the runway after a bad case of "i'm done flying". But sure, that works, I guess.
The F-104 and F-105 had powerful engines and very low drag so this isn't surprising. The Mirage III had a horrible rate of climb and its ATAR engine was underpowered. F-4s had a hard time keeping up with F-105s over Vietnam once they had dropped their bomb loads.
Doesn’t matter the XF-4 with no radar and reduced fuel load, highly tuned engines has the highest and fastest ballistic intercept to 90,000ft of all time I believe.
above 30,000ft drag is irrelevant. All that matters is thrust.
@@jugganaut33 I'd not say that to be fair. A few other things like fuel consumption, weight (and something else that eludes me at this time). Just saying... 🤔
The only reason the F-4 had trouble keeping up with the Thud after weapons release is the F-4 didn't drop its external tanks. Without those tanks the F-4 will easily outrun a Thud.
@@dat581 - The F-4s still had their tanks and missiles after F-105s dropped their bombs. However, the F-105 had faster acceleration.
Why couldn't this be a song for the Grim Reapers theme?
Song Don,t Fear The Reaper!
Perfect!
Even if the lyrics are awful, theme song is perfect just perfect.
So why not!
Nice to know that the F-105 bomber wins. I missed the F-106 DeltaDart because that is a real interceptor with the J-75 engine, the same as the F-105 Thunderchief.
In the mid to late 60's I lived in Parker FLA . Very near to Tyndall AFB. I saw F-102's and F-106's all the time. great aircraft.
F-106 would run away from Phantoms at high altitude irl, would have loved to see how that played out with a ground start intercept.
F106 is the fastest single engine interceptor of record.
There's a great book about the F105 in Vietnam called 'When Thunder Rolled' (Ed Rasimus) it goes into a huge amount of detail about mission planning, avionics, and even the politics of the ROE and pilot recruitment (such as even transport pilots from USAF Europe being asked to do a 100 mission rotation on the F105 in Vietnam) - after reading that the F105 pretty much became my favourite 1960s aircraft. The guy who wrote that book later also flew Phantoms in Vietnam and wrote a book about that too (Although perhaps the best book about the F4 in Vietnam is John Trotti, USMC, Phantom over Vietnam).
I still have that phantom book. John Trotti was the man. Flew so many missions that he got bored and once decided to try to do an attack run with his eyes closed. Savage.
Thud Ridge is another good one, if you haven't read it yet.
The F-105s were treated absolutely horrendously by the USAF at the time. They could have even gotten a "Super Thunderchief" with even more insane performance but the USAF declined in favor of the Phantoms.
Ed Rasimus's book on the F4 Phantom is named Palace Cobra for those who would like to read it
Thud Ridge, Going Downtown (both by Col. Ed Broughton) and Phantom over Vietnam (John Trotti) are great reads about the planes and the lunacy of the command structure / rules of engagement these men faced.
Should have added an EE Lightning.. that came into service in 1960
Its not in the game.
The F105 was an absolute beast. It spent a lot of time over North Vietnam. The F104 was also known as missile with a man in it.
We need the English Electric Lightning, this test is not complete without it 😞
Very short range though, looking for fuel straight after take off if running it at full chat!
@@viking1236 it would still smoke these interceptors.
@@jamesfletcher9032 F-4 phantom and F-104 both have a higher thrust to weight ratio than the Lightning, I highly doubt it...lightning weights more than a F-4 both on no fuel and the F-4 is known for being a big bitch.
I burst out laughing at the MiG-21 take off. 🤣
My job is to entertain
No lightning? The British one.
The F104 is a drag race hot rod. My Grandfather was on the design teams for the X1 and the f104; he used to tell me, they would spend vast amounts of time trying to squeeze out all the speed they could and still keep it stable. I used to love listening to his stories about those planes, and then later his stories about working for NASA.
It's a shame you didn't have the English Electric Lightning
Lightning please next time.
Well, to be fair, the jet that crashed on takeoff was probably slipping all over the fuel the sr-71 was leaking as this was necessary for the design! At supersonic speeds the metals in the sr-71 would expand so much that the engineers had to fit certain elements loosely (which meant leaking from takeoff and sub sonic speeds), until the metal expanded under heat to seal the gaps!
Interesting. Thanks.
The plane also took off half fueled until the metal expanded to seal the tank then it had to go to the tankard to fuel for the mission.
The JP-7 the SR-71 used as a fuel source wouldn't be spraying out of its tanks upon taxiing or takeoff. The pilot lost control of its aircraft during taxi and struck the wing of the aircraft in front of it. Just poor piloting by armchair aviators.
@@jeffburnham6611 on the contrary, the sr-71 would leak like a sivv depending on the interval between maintenance. It used a full wet wing design so 59% of the aircraft weight was actually fuel, stored directly in the wings to save weight where many gaps were present.
The maintenance work involved resealing these gaps but was never perfect so acceptable amounts of fuel leakage per minute were specified, and the leaking would increase over time between repair intervals.
The jp-7 fuel was specifically designed not to evaporate and not spontaneously ignite on hot runways, worked very well in that regard but would still leak everywhere immediately after ground refueling.
Here's a good engineering documentary about it worth a watch and my comment about the reasons why the other plane crashed on the game was made in jest haha:
th-cam.com/video/3hYSnyVLmGE/w-d-xo.html
@@jeffburnham6611
I think he was just joking as it reminded him about interesting info he could share.
Will re-do this race as soon as I can get enough guys together! :)
Check out my comment on the lrsam video 👍
Why couldn't this be a song for the Grim Reapers theme?
Song Don,t Fear The Reaper!
Perfect!
Even if the lyrics are awful, theme song is perfect just perfect.
So why not!
What if 30 MOAB Blackbird kamikazis vs Star Destroyer
Or 30 vs anything
30 vs Russian Fleet?
Thanks. I look forward to GR videos and appreciate all the work it takes to do these daily. You’re lovely humanoids and the dialogue is sparkling.
Thanks Sir!
Mirage IIIC could have used the card under the sleeve: a liquid fuel rocket booster under its fuselage... It gave a fabulous performance to climb during an interception.
didn't that have only a minute or 2 of fuel ,
I love it when you bust out the f-104. After he got out of the air force my grandpa worked for Lockheed I want to say at the time. He did a lot of work with radar systems and early auto pilot systems and actually flew a starfighter as a civilian. He got tired of waiting on a pilot to do a quick test in the middle of the night so he threw on a flight suit and a helmet, impersonated the pilot and took off. It wasn't even a 10 minute flight but if he had gotten busted it would have been game over. You could never get away with that today 👍
Why don't you use the (insert aircraft not in game) as it's the fastest 😅🏁
English Electric Lightning - never played game, I’m a Mac guy so don’t know if it is available.
Would also like to see the AVRO Arrow.
F-111? lol
Guys, that’s exactly what the original comment was about - none of those jets are in DCS so there is no way to fly them in such a test.
@@MaxIsStrange1
I have no idea what is and isn’t in the game. I run Mac OSX, and if this game was available I’d buy it.
But I use my computer for work, and I can’t afford to put up with the problems Windows brings, including a lack of support for software I use daily. I’m not rich, so a separate gaming rig is out of the question.
But the videos are fun and educational, which is why I’m here.
And I am curious how those planes would be modelled in game.
I’m also thinking of making a scenario suggestion, in regards to Ukraine. My main area is naval combat, and I want to expand my knowledge of air combat.
For my country our navy is the most important arm. We can’t be invaded, but our vital trade routes could be disrupted, thus my specialty.
A B-58 Hustler would be nice to see....
Super Caps song - you spin me right round baby right round like a record baby right round round round
1:19 Did the F-4 Phantom just popped flare right when its pilot was introduced?
Yep
Why yes, yes I did!
That f104 just turned into a helicopter
Aside from wishing there was a flying example of the F105....I wish there was a properly engineered example for a sim like DCS. A polarizing and intriguing airframe. Wasnt used as intended and its rep suffered. On the surface it is a beast.
Very few (if any) of those who flew the F-105 into combat would have wanted to fly anything else, that tells you all you need to know about the Thud.
I've been on the flight line and witnessed both F-4s and F-105s take off with afterburners. Loud is a gross understatement.
Am still impressed of the details of the aircrafts . It's true, nearly every game ,cap says " Get a another one " lol😊...
That mig crash was great. lol!
I was just trying to establish my dominance
Pity the Lighting isn't there. Good vid thanks.👍👍
SuperCap is flying the F-104 Starfighter, well alrighty then!!!
Gee, I do hope he remembers not to over-speed the engine this time...
I mean, it's got a warning light to tell him to slow down...
A few minutes later...
🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣
The wow edit was 10/10
8:06 - the "widow maker" - I remember regular reports of fatal crashes in Germany in the '60s.
There were questions about how Lockheed got the contract.
@@flickingbollocks5542 no questions. It was outright bribery
Norwegian pilots didn't crash that often compared to the Germans.
The answer that you're looking for is bribery.
A bit of a shame about the YF-12 not having a human pilot. It really seems to me like something wasn't quite right there. It's not a fast accelerator, but that seemed far slower than it has in the past. Also considering it only had AIM-47s for armament it should've fired well before reaching the intercept point with the TU-95.
Delta 36, that's an interesting point you make about the YF-12 and it's Aim-47 intercepting well before the likes of the Thud got within it's Aim-9 engagement range.
Which makes me ask in such an 'interception fly off competition', could the aircrafts optimum radar/missile capability be included - i.e the F-4 Phantom II would employ it's APQ-72 radar and Aim-7 Sparrow II's and in the case of the Mirage IIIC, does the game allow for the use of the Matra R530 or the SRPR 841 rocket booster pack?
@@RobertWilliams-us4kw I would say that it should be. If it's a measure of which plane is a better interceptor you can't have an accurate answer to that question without utilizing the specific weapons they would use in that role. For another example the AIM-54 was critical to the F-14's role as a fleet defense interceptor against Soviet bombers with Anti Ship Missiles.
Well, At least the MIG-21 is living up to its nickname
British electric lighting was quite quick 🙂
I know the F106 Delta Dart was first introduced in 1959, but it was not supplied in sufficient numbers until the early 1960s. If DCS has a model, might be worth checking out.
Also, look up "The Cornfield Bomber" for one of the wackier aircraft stories.
The 106 actually set two World Speed records at the end of 1959 exceeding 1,500 mph. Since it was designed as an interceptor, it would have been interesting to see how it faired in this competition.
The F106 would have won both the 1950s and1960s events and it is a core game plane.
Simba Fan Club Here: "THE PEOPLES CHAMP" is approved to section C3 in the Simbawimbakun nomenclature. ALSO FASTEST MEMBER IN GR LETS GO SIMBA!!!!!! Look at his paint!
I saw the 104 in the thumbnail and clicked. It was my all time favorite bird.
I saw a J-79 for the first time several days ago at an air museum here in the states. At the same museum I got to sit in a Mig-17, AH-1 Cobra, and a Kiowa.
German saying: What does it take to get a Starfighter? A field and a little bit of patience...one will crash there for sure.
oof
Star fighter was never able to do air restart. Also, hydraulics would stop working when the engine stalled and you would loose your gear, permanently if you wouldn't put it up exactly 2 seconds after take off. What a plane
im just here for Simba, the peoples champ
And I’m just here for you
I remember the 105 had some crazy speed which is why it made such a good SEAD platform. The F-104 had an ok engine but huge emphasis on low drag and lightweight the wings at their tips were 0.5mm thick literally sharp enough they'd have rubber covers on them to prevent maintenance crews from cutting themselves. It's also why it was so difficult to fly at low speeds due to its stubby wings. One of the reasons the 104 had trouble as an export aircraft was due to lack of appropriate training regarding maintaining stability at low speeds.
Star fighter has a safety autorotation flight model like a helicopter.
"GET ANOTHER ONE " should definitely be on a merch mug
Classic..... "Grim Reapers - Show `Em Yer Nuts!"
Simba tried to join the Soviet space program.
Yup I’m a cosmonaut
Go Reapers! We're having a Cadet competition in DCS ACM next month, in the Colorado Wing of the Civil Air Patrol. Hopefully we'll be able to live stream it. I've turned them all on to the Reapers channels so they can learn from the best!
The F-105 Thunderchief had a single Pratt & Whitney J75-P-19W for 17200lb military power, and 26500lb afterburner. While a heavy air frame, it was slippery making for a very fast bomb truck.
Well, just my two cents, the F104 should get spotted extra points for just being such a sexy looking bird compared to the others.
I wish you had a person in The YF-12A lol with it's two missiles
Should have had the F-102 and F-106 in the mix. They were built exactly for that role, but don’t know if they are in DCS.
They used to say the F-104 was a saddle strapped to a jet engine !
wery good cinematic camera work on this tryly enjoable :)
5:45 lmfao!😂🤣
Awesome how it just severed the wing like that lol guess we kno which Plane part was stronger😆👍
Thank you, cherished content creator!
xx
As an employee of General Electric Aviation, I love when you guys talk engines! Have you heard anything about the potential new engine for the F-35? I actually got to work on the prototype, and it’s definitely a beast!
Anyway, I really like what you guys do and look forward to each new video! Thx for the entertainment
Roger this seems a real step up in engine design.
@@grimreapers it is! To be able to improve one thing or another is a big deal, but to improve several things at once is huge! More thrust, better efficiency, better cooling…it’s an amazing piece of engineering! Hopefully the GR crew will be simulating it’s assets very soon!
Have you heard of OPSECing your OPSEC and then putting additional OPSEC on said OPSEC for ultimate OPSEC?
@@rsmac11 Welllllllllllllll... OPSECond thought... 🤔
English electric lightening would be interesting in this scenario
80’s aircraft next? I think that would be pretty cool
As well as the Lightning, would love to see the Fairy Delta 2 (which had the nose that led to the Concorde) and could the Arrow / TSR2 could be put into the mix for the what ifs.
Just wondering which mod the F-4 is with an external flight model - is it a VSN?
@CAP you need to rerun this scenario, with a Bear for each allied aircraft. Start them LINE abreast (as many Bears as there are Friendlies of course). Whoever either shoots down their Bear or passes it, wins.
rgr
F-105 engine is a J-75 with 26,500lbs of thrust. Have seen up to Mach 2.3 for top speed of the Thudd.
thx
@@grimreapers Thank you for the awesome content! It prompted me looking further into the F-105 and there are pilot accounts of the Thudd outrunning mig 21's in Vietnam. The plane was heavy and fast but couldn't yank and bank so hitting full afterburner and running away was the move of choice.
Charles... except there was a teeny tiny bit of variation between the engines. The lighting stomped the the "star-fighter" with 11 Squadron having a little friendly face off with Dutch pilots in 1984 murdering the F104's to altitude. XR749, "Big Mother" based at RAF Binbrook intercepted a U2 Spy-plane at 66,000then blasted past it and climbing to 88,000 ft (16.6miles). In 1985 "Big Mother" participated in a little competition with other NATO fighters to catch Concord at 2.1 Mach. Where she not only caught it, but showed the pilot crew her arse as she screamed past.
Lightning v US & Concord. Mark Feltons channel.
❤️❤️❤️ the F-4!!! It held some speed records for a while...legendary plane.
Fastest climbing and quickest for interception you should have an English Electric Lightening.
Surely that's gotta be on a T-shirt... "Go get another one"
agree
@@grimreapers could even do a version with your favorite GR member
Go get another one Sock 😂😂
Some of my absolute favourite fighters there. Love the Thud
What about the Electric Lighting 🤔
I didn't know they had all these planes in DCS.
The F-105 had a J-75 with 26k in full AB. I remember as a kid, in the '70's, they would do Bear intercepts off the coast of New Jersey coming out of McGuire AFB. They would be in full AB, and you could hear when they hit Mach 1 via the sonic boom. The F-104 had a J-79 like the F-4 at 17, 000 in full AB. It was very light so that 17k would make it go fast. When they did the first time to climb records it would drag the main gear tires in full AB.
The starfighter was a cool jet, but it had the annoying tendency to kill more Luftwaffe pilots than all of the allied air forces during WWII
lol
NATO - Delta Dart
Soviet - Mig-25
if you are asking about the fastest interceptors in the 1960s...
The Thud was really, really fast. Designed for nuke strikes.
The F-105 was known for occasionally ruining AIM-9's when egressing North Vietnam target areas at low level at 800+ knots, the air friction cooked the seeker head.
Cap was a freaking boomerang. lol
T Shirt w/ "Get Another One" (preferably floating over Super Cap's face!palm, possible w/a with large fireball in the background) is on my Xmas list, for sure.
@ 7:18;
The YF-12 @ this point is going faster vertically than everybody going horizontally...😆. Many thanx guys 👍👍
There was a reason why they call the Starfighter - "the missile with a man in it..."
And the Thud was always under-rated, re speed.
Great video but where did the External flight model F4 Phantom come from?
The Thud surprised me.
It would be more realistic if everyone also had to get back to base after the intercept. Full burner all the way is unsustainable
Half of us didn;t even make it to target. Chances of us RTBing are incredibly slim.
13:36 Cap looking down directly at the illuminated WARNING indicator.....and he doesn't see it. DOH!!!
eek
@@grimreapers In hindsight, 90% of airplane incidents are pilot error. Stuff happens….in particular on takeoff with Grim Reapers
Some awesome Mods. YF12, F105, F4. Phantom was a huge bucket, but first multi role, multi service plane I wanna say? My money on the F104!
The F-106 and British Electric Lightning would have been proper contenders for this test.
Cap can we see a Cuban "air force" crisis to sub for the historic missile crisis of the 60s. USSR bombers and fighters just off the coast in mass. how would the US intercept and and respond with its bombers on Cuban airbases
I think the YF-12 and the F-105 have the same engine, or at least engines from the same family.
I guess the EE Lightning was in the air before you could start your video!
They didn't call the F-104 the widow maker for nothing. Great Video. Always entertaining to watch.
How about the Avro Arrow? Oh that’s right, we had to shitcan what was quite likely the most advanced plane made at the time.
🤦♂️
Have to say that the Phantom is one of my all time favourites! You can always get another MiG - 21, they did build over 25,000 of them😂
16:18 had me cracking up!
"That can't be real... that can't be right! I've just shot out in front of everyone!" -- Cap
F-104 : "You're just a beautiful little man inside me now, sit back and see what this missile can do!"
😜
Um...doesn't take that long for a Blackbird to reach max Mach. 7-10 minutes to reach max altitude and max speed around Mach 3.2, and it certainly doesn't stop accelerating at 1200kts.
F105 is a beast. My favorite aircraft along with the f86
"Son of a BIS!!!" The MiG-21 crashed!! A century series intercept video would be cool. I think the F-105 and the F-106 had the same engine, the J75.
Is the fuel leaking of the yf12 or sr71 modelled in game? The fuel tanks were designed to seal under the expansion heating of flight conditions.
I'd love to see a time-to-speed&altitude contest comparing different techniques in the same aircraft. E.g. repeated zoom climbs vs a sustained Vᵧ climb.
I think intercept was cold start on the runway to 30000 ft.
@@turnerdan53 just targeting altitude might not work too well. IIRC the time to climb record for 3000 ft had a 60deg angle of attack more or less from takeoff. For a military intercept, to be a realistic measure, I suspect you need either a ground speed or distance component to the criteria.
@@benjaminshropshire2900 I know they tested the F16 with both the J79 and F110 engines with that criteria, with the j79 winning. It may have been to protect the base at short notice.
@@turnerdan53 I'll take your word for that, but when your climb angle gets steep enough, you might as well just lob a SAM at the target. The whole point of an interceptor is to horizontally extend the weapons envelope and stop targets as far from what you are protecting as you can. That requires getting a launch platform down range, not just up to altitude. Thus my proposal.
@@benjaminshropshire2900 I don't know if it also has to do with fuel consumption because the faster you get to altitude the less fuel used.
104 wasn't called "the missile with a man in it" for no reason.
F105 was capable of mach 2 clean , the thud was a real beast proposed for low level tactical sunshine drops !