It is way past time for an update on the tiltup trailer progress. A little recent history first. Early in 2022 Drew and I started talking about the trailer as seen in the two videos on Playing With Sticks' TH-cam channel. In mid-June 2022, I had the first drawing of the exterior finished. The actual build started a month later. It went slowly. We shared the ideas and build process in that first video to see what the folks thought. The response was a little overwhelming to me. A year after the build started it is very close to ready to pull. We will do some test pulling before finish work starts. Better to see any problems that might exist. Then a lot of smoothing and painting. There are many significant changes since the last video. Nice curved line on the roof tilt up instead of the straight line I started with. Wheels moved inboard so no fenders. Instead, we have wheel skirts All for the good. Then I went to get it registered. It had been a few years since I registered a trailer in Texas and the rules have changed. Bottom line is that I cannot register this trailer as a home built or “hobby built” in Texas. That was my plan for the first trailers. Recent laws require an inspection by a law enforcement officer. Partly because the law is confusing, fewer and fewer agencies are offering this inspection service. Current wait times are 4-12 weeks. And all trailers must have a chassis, which is interpreted to be a steel frame with a body bolted to it. The only alternative is to become a manufacturer. That is a multistage process which we are part way through. It means more delays on when we can take the trailer out for testing and camping. It will be well into next year before we can possibly be in production. Anyone watching the economy knows prices are going up. Fortunately only some of our material costs are not changing much. So we are still looking at keeping this trailer relatively affordable. And as a side note, we think the classic 5 x 10 kit will be around 5K. Thank you to all for the interest and comments. Our website is up but there is not much there just yet. The website is published now, but there is not a lot there just yet. We will be adding things as we can. www.teardroplite.com/
@teardroplite Charles, do you know what kind of tools we’ll need to put a kit together? I’m guessing we’ll need more than just a hammer and a screwdriver….
@@marynichols7429 First, this trailer will not be offered as a kit. The more standard size trailers will be sold as kits. Because they will be bonded together with slots and grooves, clamps and clecos will be used. Clecos are a spring loaded tool that goes into a hole to hold things in position. We will offer those as a buy back package. There will be predrilled holes to start you off. A drill and several 1/8 drill bits is the only power tool needed. A good caulking gun to dispense the adhesive. A 4 foot level and a small plastic dead blow hammer. Gloves and an apron for those who tend to be messy. Masking tape and a few plastic spreaders. Our intention is to make this easy.
Teardrop Lite LLC now has the authority to issue a VIN for each trailer. Next step is to be recoognized as a manufacturer by NHTSA. That is taking time.
Charles has announced a PRICE! Here is the info from him: TeardropLite was started to design and produce extremely light weight, 5x10 teardrop trailer kits. I started watching a lot of videos about teardrop trailers. Around this time Drew and I started emailing back and forth regarding his family's dream trailer. And over a number of months this trailer design slowly came into focus. Once Drew and his family have lived in it and we catalog any desired changes, we can lock in the initial design and produce molds. Using molds will cut making and assembling the basic parts down to a few days. It will be limited production at first and expand if needed. Now the huge question... when? Drew, my partner Mitch, and I are of one mind on this. This trailer needs extensive testing in various settings and even seasons. As you all know Drew likes Fall camping. So I am going to say it will be the end of Summer before we can project a launch date. It is possible we will start making production tooling after he does a shake down camping trip. But look for a launch late in 2023. The trailer will be offered as a basic shell, so each will be built with camper-chosen options. Stove, bedding, electrical and lighting can all add a little or a lot to the cost of a trailer. Windows are going to be fixed to standardize manufacture as the window and door openings will be molded into the parts. Our goal is to keep a simply equipped trailer in the low to mid $20,000 range. We will have to crunch the numbers in a few months to be more precise. Later we will offer various upgrades and build options. And yes different floor plans will appear. Cost benefit analysis of composite structures is complex. Simply put, carbon fiber replaces a greater amount of fiberglass so the cost is only a little more while weight is reduced a lot. Used with a fiber that is extremely good at dealing with impact and vibration loads, the overall structure is very efficient in weight and cost. TeardropLite will have its own website. We will publish it once we are closer to production. Email me at the address below if you'd like to be notified when the site is up. I will email back as I have time. teardroplite@gmail.com
Just to get some frequently asked questions answered here at the top. Gross weight is going to be set at 1500 pounds. The shell weights 525 pounds. Suspension, galley equipment and water, EcoFlow power station, and bedding bring it up to about 830 pounds. So it has a usefull load for all the stuff campers take with them of 670 pounds. With the braking system it should be towable by almost any vehicle. I expect most campers will be pulling it at around 1100 pounds. The floor plan is 12 feet. The front curve to rear curve is 13'11". Inside width is 74 inches. Standing height is at 6'5". 14.5% of all American men are six feet or over. Only 1% of men are over 6'4". That should almost if not all potential campers.
Man I would love to watch the project management on this. So much to learn. The origin of this has so many criteria and I'd love to understand the decision making here. Either way, that's less than a year from concept to production and you've already got a relative sell rate. Bravo!
My gut still tells me that you will be asking for over $30k with some basic options when this is all said and done. Would love to be proved wrong. And no funny business where you try to hook us with a low price in the first year and then jack it up $10k for the second full model year of production after just a few trailers have gone out the door.
Thanks for this great overview and update, Drew. With its carbon fiber and composite construction and no frame, it will be known as your Playing Without Sticks camper :)
Haha. So true! That is why I have been so adamant this trailer needs a good amount of wood veneer, rattan, and cane mesh. It kind of reminds me of those fake plants we bring with us everywhere in our campers. Haha.
You sound like me. Looking at all the innovations in the industry has become quite an addiction for me. It's like attending a World's Fair. I never have, but I picture it feeling the way I feel when I see a new innovative camper design.
Oh, I should have added text in the video that said "if you are interested in the bottle opener or the paint tool I have links in the description for them."
It's pretty neat, watching not just you, but others with young families figuring out what the needs are as it changes with accommodating growing kids and staying true to your style of camping. And with so many innovative options and more always developing, it's fascinating what people dream up and build. This is what makes this teardrop industry so interesting.
Agreed. I love that manufacturers are willing to entertain the idea of making small campers that support families or live larger for single people or couples. It used to be small or huge and nothing inbetween. Minus the greats like 13 and 16 foot fiberglass trailers and pop-up campers. I am glad a new market has emerged in the middle of all this.
Hello Drew and Charles!!! Please include A/C and please consider placing a door with slides or drawers under the bottom bunk and include and awning/screen room option off the side and galley areas. Also, PLEASE include lots of windows for light! There was also a GREAT idea I saw that uses L brackets that enable you to slide a standard 6’ folding table into the space above the fridge or in a larger storage area to give you the ability to setup a nice camp kitchen or dining area while maximizing usage of space.Thank you!!!
Tamiyo, wow! Was that an accident. If you meant to put $5 I can make sure you get that returned. I have not talked to Charles about a deadline, I am leaving this all in his hands. My goal is to not get involved. But, at the same time I thin the community needs to push him to get it out as soon as possible. He is so excited about his kit trailers, I know this trailer is second in his heart to those. So I could say how they would get most of his attention. My hope is that he sees enough interest in these videos that he may switch gears. Now don't get me wrong I still want the kits out quickly too. I just am hoping he hires a team to get a few projects going at once.
I got your answer Tamiyo. If you go back to the pinned comment in this video (the first comment in the comment section) there is now a paragraph from Charles. It states quite a bit of information including thepricing of this trailer. And fortunately it came in much lower than many people thought it would. Again, thank you so much for the tip. I was just shocked! In a good way of course.
You sold me on the weight - now just sell me on the end price. Love the Road Toad: weight/aerodynamics - check, composite - check, price - check check! But I also would like a more finished galley option as I no longer want to mess with too many DYI modifications (which really means for me buying things from say Ikea and hope it fits and still looks good.) Love all the innovative features of this design though it may have more features than a solo + dog traveler needs. I do want to find out more especially if I haven't dropped the dime on some other camper before this comes to market - and hopefully it won't require as nearly many dimes as say the Earth Traveler.
Based on Charle's philosophy it will be affordable for what it is. But, I have a feeling it will still be up there with the price of a decent teardrop based on the size of this and materials used. However, Charles' main goal with his company is to build VERY affordable teardrop trailer kits. These will be more modest 5X10 style teardrops that can be assembled in a long weekend up to about a week. Like you I LOVE the Road Toad. But, I also would like a bit more of a finished galley.
If you go back to the pinned comment in this video (the first comment in the comment section) there is now a paragraph from Charles. It states quite a bit of information including thepricing of this trailer. And fortunately it came in much lower than many people thought it would.
Thanks Mark! I can imagine teardrop owners being able to quickly see the benefits of this design. I have a feeling though it may be a bit harder for some folks to see the beauty of the galley. I think it is just something people often need to experience to understand. I think it is hard for some people to understand why we would build the kitchen around the galley and not inside. I am excited though to have my tiny backup cook area inside. This is something I have often felt would be good in a design like the T@B clamshell. A nice galley kitchen outside and a place inside to boil some water for coffee in the morning.
@@PlayingwithSticks Cooking off the back is certainly best for clean-up, lingering smells, stocking. And with the large galley hatch, there's plenty of weather protection.
I see so many different camper types and just like you there has always been somethings that I like and somethings that I don't for each. It has gotten to the point that I was just going to make my own but honestly this carbon fiber camper looks amazing! I know it is still early but I love all of the ideas being implemented. Can't wait to see and hear more about it! I will be very interested to learn about purchasing options once final details get figured out.
You sound just like us. What our family ened up doing (which is ridiculous I realize) is we always have a 13' trailer and a teardrop trailer on our property to choose from. I just couldn't find a trailer that could do what both of these trailers could do. That was the big push for us. And it eliminates one trailer from our life, which would be nice.
@@PlayingwithSticks I really find the timing of this rather fortuitous for me. I have a trailer that suits my needs now, and won't have a need or desire to change for a few years yet, barring any unforeseen calamitous event. When I do eventually want to consider a different trailer I will want something smaller than the small trailer I currently have. With luck by then Charlie will have a number of these trailers out and about and tested, so it will be an option I can consider when that time comes.
If you go back to the pinned comment in this video (the first comment in the comment section) there is now a paragraph from Charles. It states quite a bit of information including thepricing of this trailer. And fortunately it came in much lower than many people thought it would.
Yes, passthroughs in the galley! As a solo traveler with less storage needs, I would like inside access to the galley sink, counter and fridge as well.
Me too! Based on Charle's philosophy it will be affordable for what it is. But, I have a feeling it will still be up there with the price of a decent teardrop based on the size of this and materials used. However, Charles' main goal with his company is to build VERY affordable teardrop trailer kits. These will be more modest 5X10 style teardrops that can be assembled in a long weekend up to about a week.
If you go back to the pinned comment in this video (the first comment in the comment section) there is now a paragraph from Charles. It states quite a bit of information including thepricing of this trailer. And fortunately it came in much lower than many people thought it would.
@@debbehemmer7694 I would have posted it under your comment, but I don't want to get it flagged as spam as I would be posting it on everyone's comment. Haha.
Yes! This is going to be the design to watch. Looks promising. And you mentioned “pass-through”! If it doesn’t required nightly bed assembly, I’m interested.
Definitely love this design! It has so many things on my wish list. We primarily camp in the summer and in the SW U.S. so for us, A/C is a must, though I do like the idea of being able to leave it at home when it won't be needed.
I cannot wait to see this project done (with AC…because I travel South & It is required). Thank you. Sure peaked my interest because I plan to buy something this year!
Would be great if it were possible to use the galley cover/hatch as a place to sit outside when it’s raining. Making it possible to enclose that area from rain and bugs would be awesome.
So this looks like what I have been searching for, for a long time. We have a 5th wheel, we have an overland pop up wedge style scamper on one of our trucks, but with our family growing we have been looking for a small trailer that can accommodate 5 and still be small and nimble out in the back country. This looks like it will fit the bill! I especially like the eco flow setup!! Thanks for doing all the hard work for us!!
Well, I’m excited as heck for this to finish panning out. I was the initial gent to mention that the wheels looked a bit too far back, secretly hoping to see that correction, but I can’t wait to see more. Have a new Ford Maverick that I’d love to see this behind asap. Great job y’all
Building a teardrop that meets your personal camping needs is a challenge. I’m sure, with your experience and knowledge that you will accomplish your goals. This is a well thought out design. Awesome keep up the great work!
It is definitely a challenge. Charles and I are considering different things every day. What made sense to us two days ago, now makes no sense at all. We just made a major change last night to the roofline.
I live in East Texas (about 90 miles east of Dallas) so an AC is a must. When it is 100 degrees with 90% humidity at night, an AC would be great! Anything from West Texas on is much better without the humidity but in the South it's just too humid
Charles completely understands. Haha. That is why he fought me to get one on my trailer. He wanted to try it out first on mine before installing it in his kit trailers. But now that he will take our trailer to market, I am kind of feeling bad for not putting one in for him.
@@PlayingwithSticks Actually, across the last year the availability of DC powered compressors for AC has greatly expanded. We may look at developing an inhouse product so it can easily be installed and hidden in the trailers. A portable box with big hoses is awkward.
Thanks Drew! I can't wait to see what the final product looks like. So isn't there concern with carbon fiber potentially cracking? Maybe the unique fiber that he speaks of will solve this issue. Are you putting the dual fiberglass propane tanks on the trailer?
BRAD THANK YOU SO MUCH! I am due for that coffee. Good question Brad. I had the same question for Charles. And you are absolutely right. That was our concern as well, which is why the trailer isn't quite what it seems from the outside. Charles built this to have more flex at certain points than a 100% carbon fiber trailer. Carbon fiber is a great material, but there is a lot of science with the tenacity and elasticity that determines it's best application. Luckily with planes, formula one, and all the other more recent uses of carbon fiber the understanding of what it can and cannot do in the industry has come a long way.
Oops I forgot to answer your question. We would love the fiberglass propane tanks, but they dont' make one small enough for our application. We will have two 5lb tanks. Each will be hidden in the wheel wells of the trailer.
Wow, this is super interesting content! So looking forward to seeing what this build becomes. My wife and I stepped up from tent camping in 2011, with the purchase of a ‘79 Scamp 13. It was a great little trailer, and we took it on many adventures, from Texas, to the Grand Canyon, to New York. Now, we are awaiting delivery of our new Casita 17’ travel trailer. Happy Trails
It is the delight to follow your channel. You mentioned that you did your you're living off channel, you might try an experiment and do 1 or 2 videos on it I think a lot of people would be interested
I would love to show that side of our life. There are so many funny things we have been doing lately. But at the same time I am afraid of what that could become. I am very cautious to ensure that we have a balance between TH-cam and family life. This kind of stuff can be really time consuming. So I do my best to keep it a hobby and ensure my kids get a "fairly" normal upbringing. Haha. As normal as you can with our lifestyle.
If you go back to the pinned comment in this video (the first comment in the comment section) there is now a paragraph from Charles. It states quite a bit of information including thepricing of this trailer. And fortunately it came in much lower than many people thought it would.
Wow that really is quite impressive. As you were going through it I was making mental notes then you said the weight was sub 1k lbs!! I'm astonished to say the least. I have mixed feelings on the air conditioner but lean toward your opinion. I never thought I needed an air conditioner but one week we were stuck in 100-110 degree temps, humid no air flow in the mountains in Washington. At night it didn't get much better dropping into the low 90s. It was miserable enough that we cut our trip short. However, other than that I've never felt a need and the weather was freakish at that elevation. So yeah...not needed but I'd have paid a good sum to have it on that particular trip for sure. Really looking forward to the completed build as you have a lot going on there. Extremely cool potential and certainly the most unique trailer yet. I share your concern about the frame and it will be interesting to see how testing goes. I notice the rear hatch looks perfect for keeping the rain off :) THanks for sharing Drew!!!
I'm like you though Pat. I am beginning to be a bit of a gear junky. So our trailer in particular will definitely be heavier than others. I am really excited to get it on the scales. I bet you are right on that AC. I was completely against refrigerators at one time. Look at me now! I am hopeful the insulation on this trailer will be somewhat like the Bean. With our original teardrop it got uncomfortably hot. With the Bean insulation combined with the MaxxAir Fan nwe never were uncomfortable. I was really surprised. But, our R-value will probably be nowhere near the Beans. That is something I want Charles to give us, an accurate R-value on all parts of the trailer. That Antishanty video really opened my eyes to the fact that the R-value can be scattered throughout the trailer when you have hinging mechanisms. Back to the AC. That is what I really like about these portable ACs coming out. You can bring it if you need it and leave it at home if you don't. Especially with a trailer as airy as yours, it is probably pretty easy to find spaces to vent it. LOVE YOUR LAST COMMENT! You always make me laugh. Great chatting with you here Pat.
@@PlayingwithSticks I'm not following the hand placement thing or the special gift. If it was funny I'm happy if not I'm sorry. Whatever it was I'm sure it was inadvertent. On the air conditioner we've considered the eco flow but the expense and bulk is so high for the once a year we "might" need it just haven't gone there...yet :) I'm very impressed with your design decisions so far. It'll be fun seeing it all put together and to hear your impressions after a few nights in the wild. With lack of frame I'm curious about weight and balance...mostly how much weight you can carry in the trailer. Once you reveal the battery(s) and propane tank choices it will be revealing. The extra water will be impactful potentially. I'm thinking those fiber glass propane tanks would be sic. ground clearance, wheel size options, hitch type, fridge choice and power draw/options are all things I'm looking forward to hearing about. Really curious about the ruggedness of the structure without a frame. Super interesting idea
@@pat9125 You sound like us with the fridge. But once we started using it, we were hooked. I would never leave home without the fridge now. I have the same thoughts as you about the weight distribution. It is just hard for me to fathom one spine and two independent axles being the load bearing part of the trailer. Although they are Timbren we are adding their suggested support bar across.Not suggested for all uses obviously, but for cases like ours. Propane will be very limited. We are hiding 1 5lb propane tank in each fender. With my heater use that may be a little lacking. We will have to see how that goes. Last fall there were many opportunities to use the heater. So I will be interested to see how much we use this year. As for the batteries I am going fairly small at 2kWh and then supplementing the rest with solar and portable power stations. I shouldn't need more until I start testing induction cooking. Even that I may be surprised to find that 2kWh and solar is enough. I honestly have no idea, because I have never studied what amount of energy they require. In terms of clearance and tires. I went with 15's because i like the look and the little bit of extra clearance. 14's would probably be a better fit for what this trailer is designed for. I forgot the clearance now. All I remember is that it was higher than I wanted. In a good way. I want to say it is somewhere near 15". As for everything else I was planning on going pretty basic as this trailer is designed more for blm, state forest, and HipCamp style camping. But I really should consider I nice articulating hitch. Although we aren't offroading it sure makes a better towing experience. And, well, I am already making this my crazy experimental trailer. I might as well just keep going with the fun add-ons. I think you just inspired an articulating hitch!
Pretty cool! We currently own a fully composite construction Runaway square drop but I definitely miss the expansiveness of our previous aframe. Don’t miss the drafty corners and need to be 100% level for the roof halves to meet. Articulating campers are definitely a different animal to get used to! Curious to see this build continue on, great and informative video as always!
I’ve been very eager to see what the R-values are like. Nobody’s really talked about it before until you mentioned it here. I had a suspicion that there would be an impact, just based on thinner walls. I need to consider potential air gaps as well. Makes sense. And the leveling thing that’s also new to me. Thank you for sharing all of this
I've been looking at Aframes and Runaway. Another one, I've been looking at is Encore RŎG 12RK Adventure Trailer. Never knew about the leveling issues. Thanks
@@PlayingwithSticks I’m sure a composite build would have a better r value than the stick built poorly insulated aframe I had. Not sure how much difference though as much of the losses were at the articulation points. Camping in the extremes were uncomfortable enough to just say no. Couldn’t keep it warm/cool enough and having to spend a half hour on putting up extra insulation (on top of the initial leveling/wall/roof set up) took too much time away from camping to be enjoyable The hinging was a source of concern too, as there is always air gaps. No matter how tight the gasket, they will have flaws. Another need to be 100% level. If not, a day of rain will channel drops to any weak points in those gaskets. We had one such spot in a corner, and discovered this on a particularly rainy trip in which we forgot to level. Almost became a very expensive lesson. There’s also the issue of rain runoff during storage and keeping the camper level during those times too But every breed of camper has their quirks. Composite builds do as well. Gotta love the smell of plastic lol. But I definitely enjoy it’s insulating properties as well as it’s much lighter weight. Hoping to see more in the market in the future
@@PlayingwithSticks R value of the foam core material is listed at 3.85. That is low and I may decide to make thicker walls. I will eventually make coupons and send them for testing. R value should be measured on the final product. The composite skins have some insulating value. The composite construction should have near zero air leaks. Of course there will need to always be airflow through such a small space. The variable speed forced air system shoud make that easy to manage. I think it will be fairly easy to stay comfortable in this trailer. The propex can supply a lot of heat. But this is clearly not an extreme winter camper.
This thing is looking fantastic and I can't wait to see the end result, plus can't wait to see them on sale :D My wife and I built our own teardrop, but sadly had to sell it and get an old 13 scamp because we needed just a little more room (also standing up is nice). I'd love to go back to a teardrop that has the scamp size, but is light weight like a scamp! Our tow vehicle is limited to 2k pounds so weight is a major factor when looking at campers, if this thing is around 1k at finish... I'd be super interested.
Gross weight is going to be set at 1500 pounds. The shell weights 525 pounds. Suspension, galley equipment and water, EcoFlow power station, and bedding bring it up to about 830 pounds. So it has a usefull load for all the stuff campers take with them of 670 pounds. With the braking system it should be towable by almost any vehicle. I expect most campers will be pulling it at around 1100 pounds.
That’s what I like to hear Charles! Woot woot! And just so people don’t get confused that Ecoflow power kit is just something we are installing for our family. My guess is most people will be using either a portable power station to power this camper or a smaller power management system than we have installed. It doesn’t take a whole lot to run lights, fan, and a fridge.
My wife and I have been brainstorming on the idea of an affordable pop up, hard shell, light weight, where we can stand up but store in a standard garage. This looks promising but I wasn't clear on how a six foot man could stand up in it. Also, I live in Garland TX and would love to visit Charles shop.
If you check out our first video on this I think you may understand the concept more. The standing room area will be 6'5" tall. That was a big must for us.
I love the direction this is taking - it looks like a smarter and *much* lighter take on the 11-13ft hybrid caravans with slide out beds and pop-tops that are becoming very popular here in Australia. I can't wait to see some of the creative solutions, especially the door's design. The positive pressure system is a smart addition too, especially when there are so many places for dust to get in while travelling. The only thing that I would add if it was mine would be a small box or platform on the tongue where I can store a ground cover and a small BBQ, which I wouldn't want to transport inside the camper. Edit: The only alternative to gas struts for the hatch that I have seen are locking stays on a camper I rented long ago, similar to chest lid support hinges. I was very wary of the wind lifting the hatch and unlocking the stays while we under it or even worse, just unlocking one of the two which would have allowed the hatch to twist and something to break. A few questions (feel free to ignore them if you plan to address them in future videos or you want to keep it a surprise): Assuming you're not going to use the disposable propane bottles, where do you plan on keeping your stove's LPG bottle? Do you need to transport it or have it outside when cooking to comply with any regulations? Are you going to install a hot water system for the galley? How will the plumbing get hooked up to the water containers? I can imagine it will be tricky to integrate but do you plan on having an awning or a tent of some sort attached to the side of the camper or the galley hatch?
Good observation. When considering the build I first considred more complicated options. Like you said, something similar to a hybrid. I picked up on the positive pressure application from watching all those Australian overland videos. I think it was the Bruder that first brought it to my attention. But I can't take credit for it in this build, that was all Charles's idea. What you mentioned about the ground cover and barbecue is included in the under the bed storage. I may have done a poor job highlighting that in the video. That entire area will be accessed from the outside of the trailer. And it can be accessed from either side. Like you I did consider a tongue box. It could easily be added to the design. My only hesitation for folks is that adding a tongue box typically means adding addtional weight to the tongue. Keeping that weight more centered over the axles is typically the best route if possible. Great questions by the way. We will have two 5lb propane tanks. It is a feature I love. Each one is hidden in a nice little compartment built into the wheel wells. I am giving a bit away here, but this trailer is designed to look like it is coming out of the 1940s and 50s. There will be some pretty dramatic GMC flair style wheel wells on this trailer. This is something I have always wanted to test out. Can you make a trailer with classic wheel wells that performs in all situations? What paint, texture, coating is needed to hold up against the gravel abuse. And how well do wheel wells hold up against trail brush? I have always wanted a trailer that can go almost anywhere, but still look good. This is my chance to see if we can make that happen. I will not be installing a hot water system as I have found I often gravitate to a basic sponge bath over our nicer shower methods even though we own the equipment. However, in this buld I amm going to give the Joolca another shot. In my Joolca video I liked the shower. But my issue with it was setting it up. I mentioned in the video if I could keep it mounted full time it may be a viable option for our family. We will be mounting it on the trailer. Our current issue is that the box is just a tad taller than the door for the underbed storage. That would have been the ideal place to mount it. But I think we can come up with something. For the 2.0 version I may need to rise that bed up a couple of inches. Maybe even in this version, we will see. If you haven't seen our low water camp dish washing video you may want to check it out. th-cam.com/video/nd4redVQ6Wk/w-d-xo.html This really reduced our water usage and made it not really necessary for traditonal dish washing methods. As for plumbing. The water will either come into our Joolca Triple Ensuite that we will be using as a side entry tent/shower/bathroom. Or if we can figure it out, this trailer will have it's own built in side entry room. Still working that one out. So far I have never found the need for the galley tent or galley side walls. But I am open to trying it out at some point.
@@PlayingwithSticks Great points! I reckon the Plymouth Deluxe and Pontiac Chieftain are two of the most beautiful cars ever made and I hope that's the design direction toward which you're leaning. I can't wait to see the final product! The Joolca system is a very nicely comprehensive system but if you are after a simpler but more portable option, have a look at the Companion Aquaheat Lithium (not sure if it's available in the USA though). BTW keeping the BBQ and ground sheet outside is purely for the smell, especially when you travel for a whole day in the hot sun 😁
I will have to look into that shower system, I’ve never heard of it. And good point on the smells I never thought of that. Hmmmm… Charles and I just decided a couple weeks ago I don’t need a tongue box. You have me thinking I probably do. This is why we posted this video. Those Blindspots always get you. Thank you for that!
@@Ess_Chalk The under bed storage that is accessed from outside is hermetically sealed off from the trailer interior. No smell will come up from there. And the retracting tongue make a tong box a complete redesign of that area. The storage uner the lower bunk could be converted to an outside accessable storage. But with forward storage weight and balance is always an issue. Especially on a trailer that is under 1000 lbs.
@@Ess_Chalk Wow, have you been looking at my sketch book. The fenders have actually changed from the ones Drew saw when he was here. They will look very much like the Plymouth Deluxe. That gives more storage inside for the propane tankes and other small stuff.
I want to help Charles out with some volunteer work:-) I have 9 years aerospace experience building spacecraft and unmanned aircraft. Love the project!
Definitely need to add a water pump so you can set up an outdoor shower using preferably a built in water tank. For the roof maybe use a lift system similar to toy hauler bed lifts.
I'm sure everyone is giving you their suggestions, but here's one more: It would be cool if the roof lifted straight up like the Meerkat. That would give you standing room throughout the den area. It could be possible if you had scissor-struts (I don't know what they're really called) in the left and right sides. The front and back walls could hinge down from the top and lock into place for full stability. Finally, the left and right walls could be installed from the outside. It might even be possible to have bug-screen installed on the right and left sides so you could take off/leave off the side walls for great ventilation.
If you go back to the pinned comment in this video (the first comment in the comment section) there is now a paragraph from Charles. It states quite a bit of information including thepricing of this trailer. And fortunately it came in much lower than many people thought it would.
Looks like it is coming along. You are correct, each camper/teardrop/trailer has its pros and cons. Cool that you are able to combine all of the pros to get something good for you and your family. The EcoFlow power unit is very cool. If I was building something from scratch or had the option, I would set up to use some type of power station instead of onboard batteries, charge controller, etc. Like you said, gives you flexibility. Christine says she would trust Charles in regards to the no frame. She said look at all of the stuff he has built, he knows what he is doing. BTW…..how do you score a ride in the land speeder? 😁
Hi Garret, great seeing you! Good point on building around the power station. I would do the same thing. I often say that technology is changing so quickly that after you buy your lithium you will end up buying something new in 2-5 years before you even get the money out of those extra lithium cycles. So why not future build your trailer to be able to adapt to the changing lithium technologies. This was one of the main reasons we went with the Ecoflow Power Kit. Like I mentioned, I needed to have a strong foundation. Especially for testing things like induction stoves that many people have emailed us about lately. The beauty of the Power Kit, which I didn't explain in this video is that it is an ecosystem that works together with power stations and solar inputs. And, I must note, it is compatible with other brands. Which was very important to me. What this means is that although I built the trailer on the smallest battery (which is still huge at 2kWh) It has plug and play ports for solar, alternators, and power stations. So I will be able to quickly take my power stations and plug it into this system, whitout ever having to wire that portion up. Again I was really thankful Charles put up a fight on this one, because I think in the future I will be saying he was right. At the time it just seemed a little overkill and too much battery capacity for our needs. But at that time I didn't see the trailer as our experimental trailer. I was trying to build it pretty bare bones to give people an idea of what they could do. And like Christiine said, although I give Charles a hard time and I am still a little hesistant, I am super excited to put this "no-frame" to the test. I continue to ask Charles why nobody does it? And he says why do people not do a lot of things? Because they just follow what they know works. And that makes a ton of sense to me. Because I see so many great small camper manufacturers using some of the same components that are used in the large RV industry. And I often think there has to be another way. But, that means putting your neck out there a little bit. And even if it is better, people come to expect certain things. So in theory it could impact your sales as well. It could be better, but if the perception is that the standard thing is better it often is better to just keep with what people know. So yes, I am so excited to beat on this trailer. If it surives the Playing with Sticks test this could be something really big for the small camper world. As for the land speeder I didn't even have to beg. Inside I was begging though! Haha. They were really excited to throw me in or on all the vehicles. I think I forgot to highlight this in the first video, but the landspeeder with the removable engines actually has an engine in it for driving. They use it for parades! How cool is that!
I promised myself that the next time you see this trailer it will be finished. Now I know I will make a lot of changes to it. But, finished enough for you to get a 99% understanding of what it should be. Outside and all. I am really excited about the outside. I have a feeling it may surprise folks.
@@teardroplite Hi charle. Nope i was thinking more along the lines of those used on the F-15 Silent eagle and being considered for use on all f-15's. the Rafale also has some wonderful conformal tanks it can carry. blended to be smooth to the body and allow smooth airflow over them. they don't increase the drag in in some cases even lower the drag. LongEZ were just normal "drop tanks" style. The new superhornet also has a fairly good conformal tank on it placed right over its engine intakes and blended right into the body.
@@teardroplite hehe, I suggested to drew, Conformal tank blisters, over the fenders... where its molded aerodynamically with a hatch to open to hide cargo, and the propane tank/tanks out of the air stream for clean air flow. Maybe propane one side, diesel on the other.
Love that you are trying to develop a trailer that incorporates all the best features, and I am seeing a lot of great ideas. However... it does feel complicated. Maybe it will seem less so when I see the finished product rather than focusing on all the details of the build. Also, since I don't have children, I don't have any interest in having bunks (wasted space), and I would prioritize A/C over heat (I live in Virginia). 😊 Oh, and I'd love to have one of those paint can tools!
The intention for this trailer was to be very simple. Like I mentioned in the video, this is an experimental trailer for our family in terms of the complicated parts. The trailer that Charles would build would not have any of these complexities. The complicated components on the final build would just be the lift for the main top and lifting the bunk window. This should take about three minutes or less. All this other stuff you were seeing on our trailer is more for the channel. We want this trailer to be capable of testing anything that is out there. Beings this will be our main trailer. We don’t want to have to use other trailers just to test specific gear. Now, unfortunately, because we are designing this to be aerodynamically sound, this means for anything like a rooftop tent, awnings, road showers, basically anything you mount on the roof or the sides will have to use a different trailer to test those. Like you said, I think this will seem much less complicated when you see the final design.
Hey Patrick! The more I look at them, the more I am intrigued as well. Where I really see myself using it is in applications where it sits out in the open. I think it would be great in our cargo trailer, a canvas tent/yurt or cabin. I think it looks clean enough to just hang out in the open. That way you can move it around and give it a new home from time to time.
Hi,since the fenders stick out 1 foot on each side of most teardrop's , why not make the camper two foot wider by having the wheel wells inside the camper. I'm a contractor who has drove aluminum step van's for 40 years and never had the wheel well's leak. The well's will be inside of the floor storage. Carbon fiber very cool but for the rich ! I have a all aluminum 5x10x5 WeeRoll trailer that only weighs 890 pounds dry weight. If I was building my own I would have two doors with window's and screen's so my side wall's could have cabinet's inside or flush door's on the outside for pull out storage , drop down shelf, shower access or what ever ( keep the wind drag down ) With a seven foot width your bed can go sideways leaving you plenty of room for inside table , seating and a porta potty, Thanks for reading, it's always great to hear how people are doing their builds and equipment ! Summer is coming - Enjoy
We have had a few people ask that same question in the last couple of weeks. And you have a really good point. To be honest I don't know other than aesthetics. I find if you go that route it seems to only turn out two ways. It can either have a nice boxy almost military look if you are going for an offroad overland style trailer. Or it gets a really futuristic almost Jetson's like look if you are going for something more classic. Charles is a huge Aero guy, so when we were originally looking at this we highly considered something like you are talking about. But, I am a sucker for a classic nostalgic look. So this will have some pretty intense GMC style fenders. The neat thing about fenders that large though is that we will be able to hide one 5lb propane tank in the back side of each fender. I am excited to show you that in the final build. Carbon fiber for the rich, exactly! That is why Charles mentioned his special fiber at the end. He ran across something with some great qualities that will keep the cost down. I absolutly love the WeeRolls. I just suggested one to someone a few days ago. Wow, I had no idea some of them came in at 890lbs dry. Nice! I used to be a huge fan of cabinets. I am now changing my tune about them. I still think they belong, but I think a majority of manufacturers put them in the wrong place. I will talk about this in the next video. I couldn't figure out why I am so against larger travel trailers. And then it finally dawned on me after being in so many campers of so many different sizes and shapes. It is that hallway feel. I have come to realize, which was important in this design, that trailers don't really need to be big to feel big. They need to feel wide to feel big. And the problem is that most large trailers are built to feel narrow. Tight hallways and cabinets placed in ways that make you feel cabin sick much quicker than you would expect. When taking out our pop-up and our cargo trailer I quickly realized all you need is to stay away from the hallway feel and be very thoughtful about cabinet placement. I like your idea for how you would build it. Like you, we would do a second door. But on this build I found I just needed that extra wall space.
If you go back to the pinned comment in this video (the first comment in the comment section) there is now a paragraph from Charles. It states quite a bit of information including thepricing of this trailer. And fortunately it came in much lower than many people thought it would.
A smaller 2-person version, queen up front, passthrough under the bed, mid-section with standup, and that style of galley, and nothing else volume-wise, would likely make a lighter weight, under 2,000 lb, camper trailer that I could pull with my Jeep Wrangler TJ. I love the idea of the rounded sides to cut side approach wind sheers.
This trailer has a gross weight of 1500 pounds. That is if you can think of enough heavy stuff to bring. Dry weight is about 800 depending on electrical components. If demand is there, we might make a smaller stand up version one day.
Oh, our first trailer is a 5x10 trailer. It got pushed into the corner, 80% finished, to build Drew and May their trailer. It will probably be for sale before this one.
Super cool. I often daydream about RV designs and I tend to have similar taste. If I were to do a custom it would be on a small RV. Now, where we are different though is I'm not going to even attempt to take our whole family of five in a teardrop or small camper. Yeah, right. I had to get a bumper-pull toy hauler. Our NoBo 19.8 was too small for us when we just had the two kids. Myself on the other hand, am a geologist in real life, and could see myself in one of these by myself or just me and the wife. But probably just me going out with the boys pulling it with my Jeep. But I think you're right making the pass-through to the kitchen and the swinging roof to open up the space. This is going to be a badass camper for sure. Also, another takeaway for me is 1) probably invest in Ecoflow 2) buy some Ecoflow products. The battery powered A/C (all versions sold out) opened my eyes. They're doing some good stuff. Also heard customer service is better than competitors.
We have been in quite a few larger travel trailers and 5th wheels over the years. And like you I fiind even our family struggles to stay in one. And I think there are a few factors at play there. #1 they are designed to be lived in. So because of this you end up not bringing the outdoor side entry tents and other features like bathrooms that, in our opinion, making camping easier and more enjoyable. And #2 most larger travel trailers are built with a layout that uses hallway living and an overuse of cabinets. Once we stayed in our pop-up camper and the cargo trailer I realized the issue wasn't as much about space, but more about design. By eliminating or thoughtfully placing cabinets and replacing narrow hallways with wide open areas you get a completely different indoor experience. But, I also completely agree with you that our style of camping isn't for everyone. So I am so glad to know there are options out there. And yes, good point on the EcoFlow I didn't mention it in the video. But, one of the things I love about this power kit is that it is part of Ecoflows larger Ecosystem. Like I said we built up the base of this trailer to support testing things like induction stovetops. And to do that we will probably need to attach additional power stations and solar. Another thing I REALLY like about the Power Kit is that it is not propriatary. We will be able to use our current solar panels and power stations from other brands. Which I think was a nice touch. I love ecosystems, but I hate being forced into them. If that makes sense.
Love it. Does no subframe mean there won’t be a hitch at the rear of the trailer? We bring mountain bikes along so use a hitch bike rack. What is the expected tongue weight? Maybe one could add bike trays to the tongue. 2 bikes ~ 70 lbs
There are tie down rings in the den for straping in bikes. The door is wide enough to make it easy to take things in and out. Drew has an electric bike he plans to keep in there on the road.
We have spoke with a lot of top-notch manufactures over the years. What I have learned from them is that they don’t believe in the rear mounted bike racks. I think you can even see Mark Harling from Bean Trailer talking about this in our black bean walk-through. They have found that the forces exerted on a bike from that mounting point are just too hard on a quality bike. I’ve heard people say if you don’t care about your bike, it’s fine, but if you spent some money on it, they all suggest mounting it on the tongue or if you have the space putting it in the trailer. Based on lifting this trailer in the shop, the tongue weight is going to be fairly low. We will be doing a lot of load tests over the summer to determine where the final placement will go. It’s usually a pretty simple formula. But at the same time I don’t want to go too conservative and move the wheels back so far that the tongue weight becomes heavier than it should be. All this to say, unless you have a really small vehicle adding bikes to the tongue shouldn’t be an issue. But I do hope Charles chimes in here because I’ve also never worked with a trailer that doesn’t have a frame, so I don’t know if those bikes would have some sort of negative impact up there.
@@PlayingwithSticks Because of the retracting tongue, a bike rack up front would have to be attached to the front of the body. That is doable and possibly not much of an aero problem if the tow vehicle is tall. But if it is low, the drag would be huge. I think storage on the front is really a redesign project.
I am excited to show the side sections in the final design. The big part will be showing the gutters we put in for water management and hitting it with a power washer in the video. As for the parents bed it is a queen bed located about 3 inches below the bottom bunk. In our design, it run sideways meaning lengthwise from side of the trailer to side of the trailer. This is something our family prefers. But we assume most people would want it lengthwise, so I’m guessing the final design that Charles builds will be in the lengthwise configuration.
@@PlayingwithSticks I am looking forward to the next videos, then! Regarding an east-west or side to side queen bed, spacewise that makes most sense. I can understand some people wanting the north south or head to tail direction of the bed, especially if it provides access to each side of the bed. Not only does this make it easier for both occupants to be able to get in and out without climbing over one another, but it makes putting bedding on the mattress much easier. As a person with arthritic knees, I am understanding more and more the appeal of easy bed making. Might Charlie be able to offer both options?
At the moment I find it is most affordable to buy teh Autowbrake straight from the company. The AutowBrake just makes sense. Put it where it belongs, on the trailer). This way there is no delays, not required brake controllers, and you can swap tow vehicles without any extra effort. We have had a number of people ask us to get the Sunray 109 on the channel. I will have to look into it more.
Glad this will be built for us to buy too! Hope the price can stay low. Have you checked out the Safari Condo Alto R1713/1723? Those too are retractable-roof teardrops (with no canvas: just aluminum sandwiching a honeycomb composite), though are bigger and more expensive. Would be great to your thoughts or a tour of them.
Love the Safari Condo. I was really careful with the title of this video. I searched high and low for almost a year now to make sure we are the first to do something like this. The Safari in small camper nerd circles would be called a "standy." Some may even call it a canned ham. But a teardrop trailer by definition is non-standing height and has a galley kitchen. So that puts our trailer in a weird spot definition wise. In transport/storage mode it truly is a teardrop. But, once the roof goes up it is more of a "standy" with a galley kitchen. At some point we probably may need to come up with a definition for this type of trailer. Our goal with this one was for it to live big , but tow and store small. Like you I would love to get in an Alto and share it with the community. I think it is a really incredible trailer. To be honest I have a bit of window envy. That is the one thing the Alto will have that this will not. We will add a good amount of windows. But nothing like that full length window they have.
If you go back to the pinned comment in this video (the first comment in the comment section) there is now a paragraph from Charles. It states quite a bit of information including thepricing of this trailer. And fortunately it came in much lower than many people thought it would.
Awesome!! Really looking forward to the final numbers, so far this price point is more in our families budget. We live in Oregon, so we have a lot of options and I’m honestly all about local. However, spending $18K to $23K for a teardrop that sleeps 2 is one reason we haven’t purchased. We have 1 child (now a tween) and a 6’3 adult. From the first video I watched about why you love teardrops, I knew you spoke my language. I’ve always thought I would have to design my own trailer….or keep waiting around. We’ve come close to purchasing a bigger trailer(I never wanted bigger than 16ft) but I don’t want indoor kitchen. Our biggest desire for 3 ppl (tall) is ability to use bathroom inside our trailer and sleep 3 ppl. I want a kitchen outside with a nice overhang. We want light weight to pull with an SUV through the paths of Oregon. I want something that’s going to last 20 years and be low maintenance, I don’t need electronics everywhere. We also want something that we can camp with all year around, even in winter. For us, fall and winter is important bc that’s when you get restless in OR during our rainy months. We have been leaning towards the 6x12 Bend Teardrop bc of the full size bunk, it has a lot of what we need at a price point that won’t hurt our budget. However, we are still on the fence. I’ve been waiting and waiting to see what’s going to be happening with this trailer and if it’s going to be manufactured, I’m so excited it is. We’ll be anticipating the next video so get the final look and functionality. While I understand the price is still being looked at around the $20k’s it a lot better that what I had said to my husband yesterday, when i literally was just taking to him about your build. I was like, “look it’s probably going to be some crazy number like $60K 😆 I’m tired of getting excited about a dream design and the prices are just out of my budget”. Was so happy when I came to your channel to see if updated video and saw this update video and read comments about estimates on price. Thanks again!
Just last night I listed 5 floor plans for this trailer. I even have a front galley in mind for the toy hauler folks! A single queen bed would be placed forward making the den larger. But first we need to see Drew, May, and kids camping in this for a few months!
@@teardroplite I’m having a hard time finding the other floor plans? So wish this was available now. Heading to Canada this summer, Glacier National Park then down through CO and ending up in NM. To be able to pull a camper like this with my Outback would be a dream! So excited to see the final product!
If your axle is going to track that wide; round the [slab]sides taper it front to back [more teardroppy] and add wheel wells. But always slow down or get off the road if crosswinds are bothering you.
Just kidding! I was thinking of the standard Hi Lo camper. I have never seen that teardrop version. That’s crazy in all my research to find a pop up teardrop trailer I never found this. Thank you so much for sharing this.
Okay, my first comment on this design: The window for the upper bunk looks big enough that it could be an emergency escape window in case of fire. I strongly recommend that it be made so. The person in the upper bunk is effectively the farthest away from the doors and least able to get out should a fire start inside the trailer. Quite frankly, I would love each of the beds to have an emergency escape window.
Great observation Anne. I tried to not be redundant with the build videos. In the first video, we mentioned that yes, it’s an emergency egress. You’re absolutely right you need at least two exits from a dwelling like this. And the more the merrier.
@@PlayingwithSticks Great to hear. Please do give thought to each bed area, two different exits from each bed (just like bedrooms in houses) in case fire cuts off one route. Also, fire protection (extinguishers, fire blankets, etc.) within reach of each bed (and teach the occupants how to use them). It's a small space that can fill with noxious smoke and fumes quickly. Escape routes and gear must be within reach, to prevent anyone getting trapped inside or too disoriented to get out.
We have the fire exits covered, but this other stuff information mentioning is good to note. We have a CO and smoke detector. As well as an LP detector. But we never thought of the fire blankets and you reminded me I need to practice with the family the escape plan. I really appreciate this thoughtful response Anne.
@@PlayingwithSticks My eldest (age 21) and I are preparing to spend several months living out of my trailer while I work a volunteer job at a national monument. We have given a lot of thought to this and we will be practicing how to actually get out of the emergency escape windows. The bunk bed where my eldest will be is the furthest from the door and the included fire extinguisher. Nearly all of the trailer is between that bunk and the fire extinguisher. We are currently looking at where to place both a fire extinguisher and a fire blanket within reach of the bunk. The bunk is directly across from both the heater vent and the stove, and is right above the water heater, so basically the bunk is the most at risk should a fire occur. Fire escape routes and fire safety doesn't seem to be a detail that is much discussed or consciously planned for in RVs. It is a little, enough to satisfy regulations, but I still see areas of concern. I would like to see it more conscientiously addressed throughout the industry.
Hey Drew! Just started following your content and have enjoyed your videos, insights, and expertise very much. I haven't come across anything from you yet that I could find talking in any detail about your thoughts on the hard shell pop-op A-frames like A-liner and Forest Rivers designs. I'd love to see a video or hear your opinion on these!
Potential looks High. I'm curious about possible racking in winds when it is open. The crossmember that holds the hinges for the rear clamshell really doesn't look like it has enough structural strength. I think I'm with you about the frame. Even J-B Weld gets fatigued after a while. Can't wait to see it done! You must be extremely excited!
You are absolutely right on the crossmember. That was a miscommunication one day on site. The door got cut in the wrong location when folks got tired. Lesson learned, don't make cuts when you are exhausted. The door will be moved to the front near the bed. Leaving a much stronger connection there in the rear. And good point on the racking in the winds. That is something that we will have to take into consideration when designing this. And yes, I am over the moon excited. I think about our camping adventures way too much! It is almost unhealthy. Haha.
Very excited to see how this turns out and did a Napoleon Dynamite “YES!” when I heard y’all landed on the eco flow electric system! I’m hoping what’s available to the public will have the standing room and maybe be 6’ 3” or taller..? Do you know what the standing room height will be Drew? I’m working on restoring a Boler fiberglass trailer and realizing just how much is sucks to always be hunched when I’m in the trailer. Thus, I keep window shopping other trailers while I work on my own restoration project 😅 Anyways, hope this turns out as good as it looks now, light aerodynamic trailers will help make my long term dreams of boondocking with an EV a reality! And hopefully affordable!
Glad you like it. In the first video we highlighted that it will be about 6'5" to 6'7" standing height. So it should accomodate most folks. I love Bolers. But I completely understand how it would be different at your height. I'm glad you mentioned EV. I have a feeling that will create an entirely new small camper market. I am super excited for it!
I have! But, I just haven't got around to posting one yet. I think I filmed every one of their trailers. I have them scheduled for March 30th on the channel.
Probably not. In general, we have learned even with traditional frames, with the types of force that is applied on bikes, mounted to the rear, they are much more suited to being mounted over the tongue. These rear carriers are great in theory, but are pretty hard on your gear.
I had a vertical bike carrier for around four bikes like the Velocirax in mind. I guess for sure with a tongue extension something like that could probably still work. I got to thinking though, would it ever be an option to use the mudroom/entry area as a toy hauler/bicycle option while traveling? Would depend partly on the type/size of entry door I guess. This would have the additional benefit of having the bicycles inside and secure while traveling Regardless, I am eagerly awaiting the option to get signed up for one!
I like how you think. On this model, we built the door wide enough to easily take my bicycle in and out daily. We even installed a permanent mount on the floor for the bike. Charles already has a plan to make a toy hauler version of this in future. I would be excited to have one of those as well.
Hopefully those mods make it to the production model! With bikes and 3 children (any day now it will be 3 anyway), I think we can still use this larger trailer to its full potential!
Thinking the kitchen countertop slides out and splits in half then pivots to each side. ( kinda u shape). Could give more counter space and give easier access to pass through to inside teardrop?
Well, the three burner stove pulls out so you have a L shaped work area. And you want to stay under the galley hatch for shade and rain. Design decisions are always a series of compromises.
Adding to Charle's comment if you check out our first video on the build he mentions that the galley in itself is a structural component to the trailer. However, he has talked about a future design with a removable galley. This is something you see from time to time on home builds. It is a really neat concept. Basically you can remove the entire galley section of the trailer to convert the trailer to a cargo hauler when needed. Maybe there is some version lingering in the back of our minds just waiting to pop up that incorporates some sliding and pivoting to create the shape you are mentioning. And then can also be removed for the cargo space.
Based on Charle's philosophy it will be affordable for what it is. But, I have a feeling it will still be up there with the price of a decent teardrop based on the size of this and materials used. However, Charles' main goal with his company is to build VERY affordable teardrop trailer kits. These will be more modest 5X10 style teardrops that can be assembled in a long weekend up to about a week.
Based on Charle's philosophy it will be affordable for what it is. But, I have a feeling it will still be up there with the price of a decent teardrop based on the size of this and materials used. However, Charles' main goal with his company is to build VERY affordable teardrop trailer kits. These will be more modest 5X10 style teardrops that can be assembled in a long weekend up to about a week.
If you go back to the pinned comment in this video (the first comment in the comment section) there is now a paragraph from Charles. It states quite a bit of information including thepricing of this trailer. And fortunately it came in much lower than many people thought it would.
When Charles had me look into this that was one of the selling points for me. I love getting into ecosystems that can build upon itself. This system not only can communicate wih all the other EcoFlow products it also is not proprietary in nature. Which means I get to use my solar and power stations from other brands as well. At CES they just released some crazy new stuff. They have a self powered and governed lawn mower! Haha.
🍻want, please With heat and a/c, please. We need a four season trailer. Only question about no frame is whether the trailer will be able to be pulled from behind if it and the tow vehicle need to be pulled backwards.
Looks fantastic and innovative, plus the weight sounds amazing, but what makes this better and cheaper than a A-frame camper considering average family camping usage?
I could write you a book on this. Haha. But, I will keep it to just a small number of points. First let's start with construction. A-frames use laminate sidewalls and the bones are typical to what you find in the large rv industry. This trailer is carbon fiber. Not only is it impervious to water and lightweight, but it is also incredibly strong. Most folks, including myself origionally, think that a-frames are light becaue they are so small. But many of us are really sad to find out that our daily commuter cannot tow them. A-frames require indoor cooking. I like indoor cooking as a backup, but my belief is that most of us would benefit more from the primary kitchen being outdoors. Most people think grease and smells, but really it is more about space and usability. This trailer will come in at the low to mid- $20K range. So in terms of pricing they are pretty similar. A-frames have another big issue for families. And I keep hoping someone at one of these companies addresses this with a new layout. The issue is that these trailers, while large, are most often built with couples in mind. And the ones that are built for families are ridiculously heavy and long. Now, I say a lot of negative things here, but I find A-frames really special. The concept of this trailer is very similar in terms of inside layouot to the a-frames and pop-ups. Most camper trailers are designed around an awful hallway layout. A-frames and this camper are much more functional for families because the usable space is wider (square) vs. the hallway that everyone has to fight for to use any usable space in the trailer. Where our trailer would lose compared to an a-frame is that den space. An a-frame has even more usable square space than our trailer. Also this trailer was built around no modular sleeping areas. One of our biggest pet peaves of small trailers built for families is that you have to swap the beds for seating or eating areas twice a day. Hope this info helps a bit.
Have you considered dropping the floor ? In the early '60s, I remember seeing an ad in one of the diy magazines (Mechanix Illustrated or Popular whatever) for a "bottomless" camping trailer. The center walking area could be lowered when camping. Guess there were acordian side walls to keep everything water tight. Not sure what you did about the axle beam.
My suggestion would be to consider a tandem axle trailer with this build. They're safer and will bounce and sway less than a single axle. Plus if you do blow a tire you can use a rachet strap and lift up the bad axle and limp to safety. Also with a tandem axle trailer you can use leveling blocks to lift up the trailer to change a bad tire. This eliminates the need to carry a jack with you.
True on all pts. here. One of the reasons and probably the biggest reason we won't be going with a tandem axle is weight. Even just the Timbren axles we put on this were much too heavy in terms of camper to axle weight ratio. We really want this trailer to be able to be towed by a large number of smaller vehicle. And then aesthetics. It is hard to see now, but when this camper is done it is going to look like a retro teardrop when traveling down the road. Baby moons, big old wheel wells, white walled tires. But, I completely agree with all your pts. We have had such a great towing experience with our double axle "half" converted cargo trailer. Even backing up is so much easier!
Do you really think composite carbon fiber will be able to withstand the twisting and pressure that a teardrop camper receives especially if you take it off road any? I just see the resins cracking over time especially in colder climates. Any thoughts on this?
That’s a great question. Although we call this carbon fiber. In reality, there are different materials used in certain sections of the trailer where more stress will be placed. Carbon fiber is a very strong material, but it does have weaknesses . And yes, building small camper trailers with composites is common practice. Check out Bean Trailer or Escapod. Two of the best off-road trailers on the market are both made out of composite material.
Properly designed, a composite trailer will not move with the road. The torsional regidity of this trailer is very high. The suspension will take all the twisting. Many of the supercars have hade all composite vehicles on the road for over 10 years. BMW and Aston Martin have had partial composite structural chassis for over 10 years. Aviation and race cars have proven the technology as well. As Drew said the secrets are in the exact layup schedule. There is a lot of carbon fiber in this design. Also a lot of other fibers to absorb loads and prevent cracking. A lot of the black you see in these two videos is black paint to hide my fabric choices. You asked about resin cracking. Choice of resin is a critical part of composite design. My choices include enough elongation and toughening agents to insure no cracking. Look at the relatively primitive resins used in gliders that have sustained tens of thousands of landings on one wheel for 4 and 5 decades notw with no cracking. Also extensive testing will prove this desigh before we sell any.
Is the door going to be dutch or one single opening? Will it operate with the roof popped and closed? Aluminum or also the fiber material? Did I really just see Coroplast sheeting covered with the fiber reinforcement as structural pieces? If yes can we talk more about that?
If you go back to the pinned comment in this video (the first comment in the comment section) there is now a paragraph from Charles. It states quite a bit of information including thepricing of this trailer. And fortunately it came in much lower than many people thought it would.
Glad you enjoyed it! If you go back to the pinned comment in this video (the first comment in the comment section) there is now a paragraph from Charles. It states quite a bit of information including thepricing of this trailer. And fortunately it came in much lower than many people thought it would.
Is it still going into production? I watched the video. That was the “one” we were hoping for. That would’ve put anything else out of business for sure. .. not just a game changer but a game over for sure…
So… no video today eh? I guess I’ll pick one from the collection today… I hope everything is fine in your side Drew, looking forward hearing from you. Saludos amigo
It is way past time for an update on the tiltup trailer progress. A little recent history first. Early in 2022 Drew and I started talking about the trailer as seen in the two videos on Playing With Sticks' TH-cam channel. In mid-June 2022, I had the first drawing of the exterior finished. The actual build started a month later. It went slowly. We shared the ideas and build process in that first video to see what the folks thought. The response was a little overwhelming to me. A year after the build started it is very close to ready to pull. We will do some test pulling before finish work starts. Better to see any problems that might exist. Then a lot of smoothing and painting. There are many significant changes since the last video. Nice curved line on the roof tilt up instead of the straight line I started with. Wheels moved inboard so no fenders. Instead, we have wheel skirts All for the good. Then I went to get it registered. It had been a few years since I registered a trailer in Texas and the rules have changed. Bottom line is that I cannot register this trailer as a home built or “hobby built” in Texas. That was my plan for the first trailers. Recent laws require an inspection by a law enforcement officer. Partly because the law is confusing, fewer and fewer agencies are offering this inspection service. Current wait times are 4-12 weeks. And all trailers must have a chassis, which is interpreted to be a steel frame with a body bolted to it. The only alternative is to become a manufacturer. That is a multistage process which we are part way through. It means more delays on when we can take the trailer out for testing and camping. It will be well into next year before we can possibly be in production. Anyone watching the economy knows prices are going up. Fortunately only some of our material costs are not changing much. So we are still looking at keeping this trailer relatively affordable. And as a side note, we think the classic 5 x 10 kit will be around 5K.
Thank you to all for the interest and comments. Our website is up but there is not much there just yet.
The website is published now, but there is not a lot there just yet. We will be adding things as we can.
www.teardroplite.com/
Just came to this video to see if there was an update. I'm excited to see this build continue.
this looks great!
we'd be absolutely into buying this as a kit, or as a completed (but bare featured) trailer ready to go!
@teardroplite
Charles, do you know what kind of tools we’ll need to put a kit together? I’m guessing we’ll need more than just a hammer and a screwdriver….
@@marynichols7429 First, this trailer will not be offered as a kit. The more standard size trailers will be sold as kits. Because they will be bonded together with slots and grooves, clamps and clecos will be used. Clecos are a spring loaded tool that goes into a hole to hold things in position. We will offer those as a buy back package. There will be predrilled holes to start you off. A drill and several 1/8 drill bits is the only power tool needed. A good caulking gun to dispense the adhesive. A 4 foot level and a small plastic dead blow hammer. Gloves and an apron for those who tend to be messy. Masking tape and a few plastic spreaders. Our intention is to make this easy.
Teardrop Lite LLC now has the authority to issue a VIN for each trailer. Next step is to be recoognized as a manufacturer by NHTSA. That is taking time.
Charles has announced a PRICE! Here is the info from him:
TeardropLite was started to design and produce extremely light weight, 5x10 teardrop trailer kits. I started watching a lot of videos about teardrop trailers. Around this time Drew and I started emailing back and forth regarding his family's dream trailer. And over a number of months this trailer design slowly came into focus.
Once Drew and his family have lived in it and we catalog any desired changes, we can lock in the initial design and produce molds. Using molds will cut making and assembling the basic parts down to a few days. It will be limited production at first and expand if needed.
Now the huge question... when? Drew, my partner Mitch, and I are of one mind on this. This trailer needs extensive testing in various settings and even seasons. As you all know Drew likes Fall camping. So I am going to say it will be the end of Summer before we can project a launch date. It is possible we will start making production tooling after he does a shake down camping trip. But look for a launch late in 2023.
The trailer will be offered as a basic shell, so each will be built with camper-chosen options. Stove, bedding, electrical and lighting can all add a little or a lot to the cost of a trailer. Windows are going to be fixed to standardize manufacture as the window and door openings will be molded into the parts. Our goal is to keep a simply equipped trailer in the low to mid $20,000 range. We will have to crunch the numbers in a few months to be more precise.
Later we will offer various upgrades and build options. And yes different floor plans will appear.
Cost benefit analysis of composite structures is complex. Simply put, carbon fiber replaces a greater amount of fiberglass so the cost is only a little more while weight is reduced a lot. Used with a fiber that is extremely good at dealing with impact and vibration loads, the overall structure is very efficient in weight and cost.
TeardropLite will have its own website. We will publish it once we are closer to production. Email me at the address below if you'd like to be notified when the site is up. I will email back as I have time.
teardroplite@gmail.com
That is a nice surprise in terms of price!
I appreciate the update, thank you Charles & Drew!
Looking forward!
Just to get some frequently asked questions answered here at the top. Gross weight is going to be set at 1500 pounds. The shell weights 525 pounds. Suspension, galley equipment and water, EcoFlow power station, and bedding bring it up to about 830 pounds. So it has a usefull load for all the stuff campers take with them of 670 pounds. With the braking system it should be towable by almost any vehicle. I expect most campers will be pulling it at around 1100 pounds.
The floor plan is 12 feet. The front curve to rear curve is 13'11". Inside width is 74 inches. Standing height is at 6'5". 14.5% of all American men are six feet or over. Only 1% of men are over 6'4". That should almost if not all potential campers.
@@teardroplite
Cristal clear,
Thank you very much!
Looking forward for the next news!!
Man I would love to watch the project management on this. So much to learn. The origin of this has so many criteria and I'd love to understand the decision making here. Either way, that's less than a year from concept to production and you've already got a relative sell rate. Bravo!
My gut still tells me that you will be asking for over $30k with some basic options when this is all said and done. Would love to be proved wrong. And no funny business where you try to hook us with a low price in the first year and then jack it up $10k for the second full model year of production after just a few trailers have gone out the door.
Thanks for this great overview and update, Drew. With its carbon fiber and composite construction and no frame, it will be known as your Playing Without Sticks camper :)
Haha. So true! That is why I have been so adamant this trailer needs a good amount of wood veneer, rattan, and cane mesh. It kind of reminds me of those fake plants we bring with us everywhere in our campers. Haha.
Love the endless innovation in the RV market.
Even for those of us without unlimited money.
You sound like me. Looking at all the innovations in the industry has become quite an addiction for me. It's like attending a World's Fair. I never have, but I picture it feeling the way I feel when I see a new innovative camper design.
I'm looking forward to the next show of this trailer and the video of you and your family using it.
The next video should be the final build. I don't want to drag it out. I am really excited to show you.
Oh, I should have added text in the video that said "if you are interested in the bottle opener or the paint tool I have links in the description for them."
It's pretty neat, watching not just you, but others with young families figuring out what the needs are as it changes with accommodating growing kids and staying true to your style of camping. And with so many innovative options and more always developing, it's fascinating what people dream up and build. This is what makes this teardrop industry so interesting.
Agreed. I love that manufacturers are willing to entertain the idea of making small campers that support families or live larger for single people or couples. It used to be small or huge and nothing inbetween. Minus the greats like 13 and 16 foot fiberglass trailers and pop-up campers. I am glad a new market has emerged in the middle of all this.
Hello Drew and Charles!!! Please include A/C and please consider placing a door with slides or drawers under the bottom bunk and include and awning/screen room option off the side and galley areas. Also, PLEASE include lots of windows for light!
There was also a GREAT idea I saw that uses L brackets that enable you to slide a standard 6’ folding table into the space above the fridge or in a larger storage area to give you the ability to setup a nice camp kitchen or dining area while maximizing usage of space.Thank you!!!
So, when it will be available for us?
Tamiyo, wow! Was that an accident. If you meant to put $5 I can make sure you get that returned. I have not talked to Charles about a deadline, I am leaving this all in his hands. My goal is to not get involved. But, at the same time I thin the community needs to push him to get it out as soon as possible. He is so excited about his kit trailers, I know this trailer is second in his heart to those. So I could say how they would get most of his attention. My hope is that he sees enough interest in these videos that he may switch gears. Now don't get me wrong I still want the kits out quickly too. I just am hoping he hires a team to get a few projects going at once.
@@PlayingwithSticks No, it wasn't accident. I enjoy your channel very much.
I just order Safari Condo Alto, but year and 8 month waiting time.....
I got your answer Tamiyo. If you go back to the pinned comment in this video (the first comment in the comment section) there is now a paragraph from Charles. It states quite a bit of information including thepricing of this trailer. And fortunately it came in much lower than many people thought it would. Again, thank you so much for the tip. I was just shocked! In a good way of course.
Top notch! I can wait to see how this works out. I also appreciate the interplay between the design guidance and builders… lol
Keep up the great work!
Good seeing you Brian!
Pass-through galley. Yay! That's the feature I've been wanting to see in these videos.
You sold me on the weight - now just sell me on the end price. Love the Road Toad: weight/aerodynamics - check, composite - check, price - check check! But I also would like a more finished galley option as I no longer want to mess with too many DYI modifications (which really means for me buying things from say Ikea and hope it fits and still looks good.) Love all the innovative features of this design though it may have more features than a solo + dog traveler needs. I do want to find out more especially if I haven't dropped the dime on some other camper before this comes to market - and hopefully it won't require as nearly many dimes as say the Earth Traveler.
Based on Charle's philosophy it will be affordable for what it is. But, I have a feeling it will still be up there with the price of a decent teardrop based on the size of this and materials used. However, Charles' main goal with his company is to build VERY affordable teardrop trailer kits. These will be more modest 5X10 style teardrops that can be assembled in a long weekend up to about a week. Like you I LOVE the Road Toad. But, I also would like a bit more of a finished galley.
If you go back to the pinned comment in this video (the first comment in the comment section) there is now a paragraph from Charles. It states quite a bit of information including thepricing of this trailer. And fortunately it came in much lower than many people thought it would.
Great to see the update. I’m looking forward to seeing how the design closes in the pop-up/pop-out areas and the door. Such a cool design.
You guys are killing it. Love this. Every appliance in this is on point. Great work!
Thanks Mark! I can imagine teardrop owners being able to quickly see the benefits of this design. I have a feeling though it may be a bit harder for some folks to see the beauty of the galley. I think it is just something people often need to experience to understand. I think it is hard for some people to understand why we would build the kitchen around the galley and not inside. I am excited though to have my tiny backup cook area inside. This is something I have often felt would be good in a design like the T@B clamshell. A nice galley kitchen outside and a place inside to boil some water for coffee in the morning.
@@PlayingwithSticks Cooking off the back is certainly best for clean-up, lingering smells, stocking. And with the large galley hatch, there's plenty of weather protection.
I see so many different camper types and just like you there has always been somethings that I like and somethings that I don't for each. It has gotten to the point that I was just going to make my own but honestly this carbon fiber camper looks amazing! I know it is still early but I love all of the ideas being implemented. Can't wait to see and hear more about it! I will be very interested to learn about purchasing options once final details get figured out.
You sound just like us. What our family ened up doing (which is ridiculous I realize) is we always have a 13' trailer and a teardrop trailer on our property to choose from. I just couldn't find a trailer that could do what both of these trailers could do. That was the big push for us. And it eliminates one trailer from our life, which would be nice.
@@PlayingwithSticks I really find the timing of this rather fortuitous for me. I have a trailer that suits my needs now, and won't have a need or desire to change for a few years yet, barring any unforeseen calamitous event. When I do eventually want to consider a different trailer I will want something smaller than the small trailer I currently have. With luck by then Charlie will have a number of these trailers out and about and tested, so it will be an option I can consider when that time comes.
If you go back to the pinned comment in this video (the first comment in the comment section) there is now a paragraph from Charles. It states quite a bit of information including thepricing of this trailer. And fortunately it came in much lower than many people thought it would.
This is exactly what I have been looking for! I am ready to by one when it is ready.
Yes, passthroughs in the galley! As a solo traveler with less storage needs, I would like inside access to the galley sink, counter and fridge as well.
I never thought about potentially using a sink from inside. That is a good idea.
Even the bigger camping trailers stand to lose. I can’t wait for this travel trailer is available to the public!
VERY interested in something like this and looking forward to seeing the finished product! I just hope it’s affordable😏!
Me too! Based on Charle's philosophy it will be affordable for what it is. But, I have a feeling it will still be up there with the price of a decent teardrop based on the size of this and materials used. However, Charles' main goal with his company is to build VERY affordable teardrop trailer kits. These will be more modest 5X10 style teardrops that can be assembled in a long weekend up to about a week.
@@PlayingwithSticks I would definitely be interested in a smaller, two-person version!
If you go back to the pinned comment in this video (the first comment in the comment section) there is now a paragraph from Charles. It states quite a bit of information including thepricing of this trailer. And fortunately it came in much lower than many people thought it would.
@@PlayingwithSticks Thanks, I’ll check that out!
@@debbehemmer7694 I would have posted it under your comment, but I don't want to get it flagged as spam as I would be posting it on everyone's comment. Haha.
Yes! This is going to be the design to watch. Looks promising. And you mentioned “pass-through”! If it doesn’t required nightly bed assembly, I’m interested.
Glad you like it! I am really excited to show you the final design.
Definitely love this design! It has so many things on my wish list. We primarily camp in the summer and in the SW U.S. so for us, A/C is a must, though I do like the idea of being able to leave it at home when it won't be needed.
We will develop an AC solution.
I can't really afford a trailer just yet, but I am loving how this one is coming together. Here's hoping!
I like your positivity.
So excited to see this in the end! I’ve been in such a dilemma as to what small camper to get and I think this will finally be the one!
Now we all just have to get on Charle's case to make sure he gets this to market soon! Haha. I'm glad you are liking the build Susan.
I cannot wait to see this project done (with AC…because I travel South & It is required). Thank you. Sure peaked my interest because I plan to buy something this year!
@@sandyschneider6792 I am so excited to show it to you.
I'm so glad to see the progress .Very interesting. Can't wait for the next video on this.
Hi Cindy! Great to see you here. The next video should be a finished trailer.
Would be great if it were possible to use the galley cover/hatch as a place to sit outside when it’s raining. Making it possible to enclose that area from rain and bugs would be awesome.
So this looks like what I have been searching for, for a long time. We have a 5th wheel, we have an overland pop up wedge style scamper on one of our trucks, but with our family growing we have been looking for a small trailer that can accommodate 5 and still be small and nimble out in the back country. This looks like it will fit the bill! I especially like the eco flow setup!! Thanks for doing all the hard work for us!!
Glad you enjoyed it Preston! It has been a fun journey so far. I am really excited to reveal the final trailer.
Well, I’m excited as heck for this to finish panning out. I was the initial gent to mention that the wheels looked a bit too far back, secretly hoping to see that correction, but I can’t wait to see more. Have a new Ford Maverick that I’d love to see this behind asap. Great job y’all
I appreciate having an extra set of eyes on the build. Thank you William. A Ford Maverick. Nice!
Building a teardrop that meets your personal camping needs is a challenge. I’m sure, with your experience and knowledge that you will accomplish your goals.
This is a well thought out design. Awesome keep up the great work!
It is definitely a challenge. Charles and I are considering different things every day. What made sense to us two days ago, now makes no sense at all. We just made a major change last night to the roofline.
Very interesting! As a Florida resident the AC option would be very important to me. Looking forward to future progress videos.
I live in East Texas (about 90 miles east of Dallas) so an AC is a must. When it is 100 degrees with 90% humidity at night, an AC would be great! Anything from West Texas on is much better without the humidity but in the South it's just too humid
Charles completely understands. Haha. That is why he fought me to get one on my trailer. He wanted to try it out first on mine before installing it in his kit trailers. But now that he will take our trailer to market, I am kind of feeling bad for not putting one in for him.
@@PlayingwithSticks Actually, across the last year the availability of DC powered compressors for AC has greatly expanded. We may look at developing an inhouse product so it can easily be installed and hidden in the trailers. A portable box with big hoses is awkward.
I like how you think Charles!
Thanks Drew! I can't wait to see what the final product looks like. So isn't there concern with carbon fiber potentially cracking? Maybe the unique fiber that he speaks of will solve this issue. Are you putting the dual fiberglass propane tanks on the trailer?
BRAD THANK YOU SO MUCH! I am due for that coffee. Good question Brad. I had the same question for Charles. And you are absolutely right. That was our concern as well, which is why the trailer isn't quite what it seems from the outside. Charles built this to have more flex at certain points than a 100% carbon fiber trailer. Carbon fiber is a great material, but there is a lot of science with the tenacity and elasticity that determines it's best application. Luckily with planes, formula one, and all the other more recent uses of carbon fiber the understanding of what it can and cannot do in the industry has come a long way.
Oops I forgot to answer your question. We would love the fiberglass propane tanks, but they dont' make one small enough for our application. We will have two 5lb tanks. Each will be hidden in the wheel wells of the trailer.
@@PlayingwithSticks Can't wait to see the trailer when finished! It should be VERY interesting!🙂
@Playing with Sticks Thanks Drew!! Can't wait to see the finished trailer!
Wow, this is super interesting content!
So looking forward to seeing what this build becomes.
My wife and I stepped up from tent camping in 2011, with the purchase of a ‘79 Scamp 13.
It was a great little trailer, and we took it on many adventures, from Texas, to the Grand Canyon, to New York.
Now, we are awaiting delivery of our new Casita 17’ travel trailer.
Happy Trails
Glad you enjoyed it! Love the Casitas by the way.
Excited to see the end build. Thank you for sharing!
It is the delight to follow your channel. You mentioned that you did your you're living off channel, you might try an experiment and do 1 or 2 videos on it I think a lot of people would be interested
I would love to show that side of our life. There are so many funny things we have been doing lately. But at the same time I am afraid of what that could become. I am very cautious to ensure that we have a balance between TH-cam and family life. This kind of stuff can be really time consuming. So I do my best to keep it a hobby and ensure my kids get a "fairly" normal upbringing. Haha. As normal as you can with our lifestyle.
Look forward to seeing this prototype model complete
I love how this is shaping up! Do you have any rough ideas on when these could start being produced?
If you go back to the pinned comment in this video (the first comment in the comment section) there is now a paragraph from Charles. It states quite a bit of information including thepricing of this trailer. And fortunately it came in much lower than many people thought it would.
Great to see you again, Drew! 😊
Same goes to you!
Wow that really is quite impressive. As you were going through it I was making mental notes then you said the weight was sub 1k lbs!! I'm astonished to say the least. I have mixed feelings on the air conditioner but lean toward your opinion. I never thought I needed an air conditioner but one week we were stuck in 100-110 degree temps, humid no air flow in the mountains in Washington. At night it didn't get much better dropping into the low 90s. It was miserable enough that we cut our trip short. However, other than that I've never felt a need and the weather was freakish at that elevation. So yeah...not needed but I'd have paid a good sum to have it on that particular trip for sure. Really looking forward to the completed build as you have a lot going on there. Extremely cool potential and certainly the most unique trailer yet. I share your concern about the frame and it will be interesting to see how testing goes. I notice the rear hatch looks perfect for keeping the rain off :) THanks for sharing Drew!!!
I'm like you though Pat. I am beginning to be a bit of a gear junky. So our trailer in particular will definitely be heavier than others. I am really excited to get it on the scales. I bet you are right on that AC. I was completely against refrigerators at one time. Look at me now! I am hopeful the insulation on this trailer will be somewhat like the Bean. With our original teardrop it got uncomfortably hot. With the Bean insulation combined with the MaxxAir Fan nwe never were uncomfortable. I was really surprised. But, our R-value will probably be nowhere near the Beans. That is something I want Charles to give us, an accurate R-value on all parts of the trailer. That Antishanty video really opened my eyes to the fact that the R-value can be scattered throughout the trailer when you have hinging mechanisms. Back to the AC. That is what I really like about these portable ACs coming out. You can bring it if you need it and leave it at home if you don't. Especially with a trailer as airy as yours, it is probably pretty easy to find spaces to vent it. LOVE YOUR LAST COMMENT! You always make me laugh. Great chatting with you here Pat.
@@PlayingwithSticks I'm not following the hand placement thing or the special gift. If it was funny I'm happy if not I'm sorry. Whatever it was I'm sure it was inadvertent. On the air conditioner we've considered the eco flow but the expense and bulk is so high for the once a year we "might" need it just haven't gone there...yet :) I'm very impressed with your design decisions so far. It'll be fun seeing it all put together and to hear your impressions after a few nights in the wild. With lack of frame I'm curious about weight and balance...mostly how much weight you can carry in the trailer. Once you reveal the battery(s) and propane tank choices it will be revealing. The extra water will be impactful potentially. I'm thinking those fiber glass propane tanks would be sic. ground clearance, wheel size options, hitch type, fridge choice and power draw/options are all things I'm looking forward to hearing about. Really curious about the ruggedness of the structure without a frame. Super interesting idea
@@pat9125 You sound like us with the fridge. But once we started using it, we were hooked. I would never leave home without the fridge now. I have the same thoughts as you about the weight distribution. It is just hard for me to fathom one spine and two independent axles being the load bearing part of the trailer. Although they are Timbren we are adding their suggested support bar across.Not suggested for all uses obviously, but for cases like ours. Propane will be very limited. We are hiding 1 5lb propane tank in each fender. With my heater use that may be a little lacking. We will have to see how that goes. Last fall there were many opportunities to use the heater. So I will be interested to see how much we use this year. As for the batteries I am going fairly small at 2kWh and then supplementing the rest with solar and portable power stations. I shouldn't need more until I start testing induction cooking. Even that I may be surprised to find that 2kWh and solar is enough. I honestly have no idea, because I have never studied what amount of energy they require. In terms of clearance and tires. I went with 15's because i like the look and the little bit of extra clearance. 14's would probably be a better fit for what this trailer is designed for. I forgot the clearance now. All I remember is that it was higher than I wanted. In a good way. I want to say it is somewhere near 15". As for everything else I was planning on going pretty basic as this trailer is designed more for blm, state forest, and HipCamp style camping. But I really should consider I nice articulating hitch. Although we aren't offroading it sure makes a better towing experience. And, well, I am already making this my crazy experimental trailer. I might as well just keep going with the fun add-ons. I think you just inspired an articulating hitch!
Pretty cool! We currently own a fully composite construction Runaway square drop but I definitely miss the expansiveness of our previous aframe. Don’t miss the drafty corners and need to be 100% level for the roof halves to meet. Articulating campers are definitely a different animal to get used to! Curious to see this build continue on, great and informative video as always!
I’ve been very eager to see what the R-values are like. Nobody’s really talked about it before until you mentioned it here. I had a suspicion that there would be an impact, just based on thinner walls. I need to consider potential air gaps as well. Makes sense. And the leveling thing that’s also new to me. Thank you for sharing all of this
I've been looking at Aframes and Runaway. Another one, I've been looking at is Encore RŎG 12RK Adventure Trailer. Never knew about the leveling issues. Thanks
@@PlayingwithSticks I’m sure a composite build would have a better r value than the stick built poorly insulated aframe I had. Not sure how much difference though as much of the losses were at the articulation points. Camping in the extremes were uncomfortable enough to just say no. Couldn’t keep it warm/cool enough and having to spend a half hour on putting up extra insulation (on top of the initial leveling/wall/roof set up) took too much time away from camping to be enjoyable
The hinging was a source of concern too, as there is always air gaps. No matter how tight the gasket, they will have flaws. Another need to be 100% level. If not, a day of rain will channel drops to any weak points in those gaskets. We had one such spot in a corner, and discovered this on a particularly rainy trip in which we forgot to level. Almost became a very expensive lesson. There’s also the issue of rain runoff during storage and keeping the camper level during those times too
But every breed of camper has their quirks. Composite builds do as well. Gotta love the smell of plastic lol. But I definitely enjoy it’s insulating properties as well as it’s much lighter weight. Hoping to see more in the market in the future
@@PlayingwithSticks R value of the foam core material is listed at 3.85. That is low and I may decide to make thicker walls. I will eventually make coupons and send them for testing. R value should be measured on the final product. The composite skins have some insulating value. The composite construction should have near zero air leaks. Of course there will need to always be airflow through such a small space. The variable speed forced air system shoud make that easy to manage. I think it will be fairly easy to stay comfortable in this trailer. The propex can supply a lot of heat. But this is clearly not an extreme winter camper.
This thing is looking fantastic and I can't wait to see the end result, plus can't wait to see them on sale :D My wife and I built our own teardrop, but sadly had to sell it and get an old 13 scamp because we needed just a little more room (also standing up is nice). I'd love to go back to a teardrop that has the scamp size, but is light weight like a scamp! Our tow vehicle is limited to 2k pounds so weight is a major factor when looking at campers, if this thing is around 1k at finish... I'd be super interested.
Gross weight is going to be set at 1500 pounds. The shell weights 525 pounds. Suspension, galley equipment and water, EcoFlow power station, and bedding bring it up to about 830 pounds. So it has a usefull load for all the stuff campers take with them of 670 pounds. With the braking system it should be towable by almost any vehicle. I expect most campers will be pulling it at around 1100 pounds.
That’s what I like to hear Charles! Woot woot! And just so people don’t get confused that Ecoflow power kit is just something we are installing for our family. My guess is most people will be using either a portable power station to power this camper or a smaller power management system than we have installed. It doesn’t take a whole lot to run lights, fan, and a fridge.
This looks awesome from the way it opens up. I am excited!
My wife and I have been brainstorming on the idea of an affordable pop up, hard shell, light weight, where we can stand up but store in a standard garage. This looks promising but I wasn't clear on how a six foot man could stand up in it. Also, I live in Garland TX and would love to visit Charles shop.
If you check out our first video on this I think you may understand the concept more. The standing room area will be 6'5" tall. That was a big must for us.
I love the direction this is taking - it looks like a smarter and *much* lighter take on the 11-13ft hybrid caravans with slide out beds and pop-tops that are becoming very popular here in Australia. I can't wait to see some of the creative solutions, especially the door's design. The positive pressure system is a smart addition too, especially when there are so many places for dust to get in while travelling. The only thing that I would add if it was mine would be a small box or platform on the tongue where I can store a ground cover and a small BBQ, which I wouldn't want to transport inside the camper.
Edit: The only alternative to gas struts for the hatch that I have seen are locking stays on a camper I rented long ago, similar to chest lid support hinges. I was very wary of the wind lifting the hatch and unlocking the stays while we under it or even worse, just unlocking one of the two which would have allowed the hatch to twist and something to break.
A few questions (feel free to ignore them if you plan to address them in future videos or you want to keep it a surprise):
Assuming you're not going to use the disposable propane bottles, where do you plan on keeping your stove's LPG bottle? Do you need to transport it or have it outside when cooking to comply with any regulations?
Are you going to install a hot water system for the galley? How will the plumbing get hooked up to the water containers?
I can imagine it will be tricky to integrate but do you plan on having an awning or a tent of some sort attached to the side of the camper or the galley hatch?
Good observation. When considering the build I first considred more complicated options. Like you said, something similar to a hybrid. I picked up on the positive pressure application from watching all those Australian overland videos. I think it was the Bruder that first brought it to my attention. But I can't take credit for it in this build, that was all Charles's idea. What you mentioned about the ground cover and barbecue is included in the under the bed storage. I may have done a poor job highlighting that in the video. That entire area will be accessed from the outside of the trailer. And it can be accessed from either side. Like you I did consider a tongue box. It could easily be added to the design. My only hesitation for folks is that adding a tongue box typically means adding addtional weight to the tongue. Keeping that weight more centered over the axles is typically the best route if possible. Great questions by the way. We will have two 5lb propane tanks. It is a feature I love. Each one is hidden in a nice little compartment built into the wheel wells. I am giving a bit away here, but this trailer is designed to look like it is coming out of the 1940s and 50s. There will be some pretty dramatic GMC flair style wheel wells on this trailer. This is something I have always wanted to test out. Can you make a trailer with classic wheel wells that performs in all situations? What paint, texture, coating is needed to hold up against the gravel abuse. And how well do wheel wells hold up against trail brush? I have always wanted a trailer that can go almost anywhere, but still look good. This is my chance to see if we can make that happen. I will not be installing a hot water system as I have found I often gravitate to a basic sponge bath over our nicer shower methods even though we own the equipment. However, in this buld I amm going to give the Joolca another shot. In my Joolca video I liked the shower. But my issue with it was setting it up. I mentioned in the video if I could keep it mounted full time it may be a viable option for our family. We will be mounting it on the trailer. Our current issue is that the box is just a tad taller than the door for the underbed storage. That would have been the ideal place to mount it. But I think we can come up with something. For the 2.0 version I may need to rise that bed up a couple of inches. Maybe even in this version, we will see. If you haven't seen our low water camp dish washing video you may want to check it out. th-cam.com/video/nd4redVQ6Wk/w-d-xo.html This really reduced our water usage and made it not really necessary for traditonal dish washing methods. As for plumbing. The water will either come into our Joolca Triple Ensuite that we will be using as a side entry tent/shower/bathroom. Or if we can figure it out, this trailer will have it's own built in side entry room. Still working that one out. So far I have never found the need for the galley tent or galley side walls. But I am open to trying it out at some point.
@@PlayingwithSticks Great points! I reckon the Plymouth Deluxe and Pontiac Chieftain are two of the most beautiful cars ever made and I hope that's the design direction toward which you're leaning. I can't wait to see the final product!
The Joolca system is a very nicely comprehensive system but if you are after a simpler but more portable option, have a look at the Companion Aquaheat Lithium (not sure if it's available in the USA though).
BTW keeping the BBQ and ground sheet outside is purely for the smell, especially when you travel for a whole day in the hot sun 😁
I will have to look into that shower system, I’ve never heard of it. And good point on the smells I never thought of that. Hmmmm… Charles and I just decided a couple weeks ago I don’t need a tongue box. You have me thinking I probably do. This is why we posted this video. Those Blindspots always get you. Thank you for that!
@@Ess_Chalk The under bed storage that is accessed from outside is hermetically sealed off from the trailer interior. No smell will come up from there. And the retracting tongue make a tong box a complete redesign of that area. The storage uner the lower bunk could be converted to an outside accessable storage. But with forward storage weight and balance is always an issue. Especially on a trailer that is under 1000 lbs.
@@Ess_Chalk Wow, have you been looking at my sketch book. The fenders have actually changed from the ones Drew saw when he was here. They will look very much like the Plymouth Deluxe. That gives more storage inside for the propane tankes and other small stuff.
I want to help Charles out with some volunteer work:-) I have 9 years aerospace experience building spacecraft and unmanned aircraft. Love the project!
What an interesting project! I hope to see it on the road in Alaska. I am a 13ft Scamp plus silver Highlander if we pass each other on a highway.
Definitely need to add a water pump so you can set up an outdoor shower using preferably a built in water tank. For the roof maybe use a lift system similar to toy hauler bed lifts.
I'm sure everyone is giving you their suggestions, but here's one more: It would be cool if the roof lifted straight up like the Meerkat. That would give you standing room throughout the den area. It could be possible if you had scissor-struts (I don't know what they're really called) in the left and right sides. The front and back walls could hinge down from the top and lock into place for full stability. Finally, the left and right walls could be installed from the outside. It might even be possible to have bug-screen installed on the right and left sides so you could take off/leave off the side walls for great ventilation.
Yes please, when can we get one ;). Can’t wait to see the end result.
If you go back to the pinned comment in this video (the first comment in the comment section) there is now a paragraph from Charles. It states quite a bit of information including thepricing of this trailer. And fortunately it came in much lower than many people thought it would.
Looks like it is coming along. You are correct, each camper/teardrop/trailer has its pros and cons. Cool that you are able to combine all of the pros to get something good for you and your family. The EcoFlow power unit is very cool. If I was building something from scratch or had the option, I would set up to use some type of power station instead of onboard batteries, charge controller, etc. Like you said, gives you flexibility. Christine says she would trust Charles in regards to the no frame. She said look at all of the stuff he has built, he knows what he is doing.
BTW…..how do you score a ride in the land speeder? 😁
Hi Garret, great seeing you! Good point on building around the power station. I would do the same thing. I often say that technology is changing so quickly that after you buy your lithium you will end up buying something new in 2-5 years before you even get the money out of those extra lithium cycles. So why not future build your trailer to be able to adapt to the changing lithium technologies. This was one of the main reasons we went with the Ecoflow Power Kit. Like I mentioned, I needed to have a strong foundation. Especially for testing things like induction stoves that many people have emailed us about lately. The beauty of the Power Kit, which I didn't explain in this video is that it is an ecosystem that works together with power stations and solar inputs. And, I must note, it is compatible with other brands. Which was very important to me. What this means is that although I built the trailer on the smallest battery (which is still huge at 2kWh) It has plug and play ports for solar, alternators, and power stations. So I will be able to quickly take my power stations and plug it into this system, whitout ever having to wire that portion up. Again I was really thankful Charles put up a fight on this one, because I think in the future I will be saying he was right. At the time it just seemed a little overkill and too much battery capacity for our needs. But at that time I didn't see the trailer as our experimental trailer. I was trying to build it pretty bare bones to give people an idea of what they could do. And like Christiine said, although I give Charles a hard time and I am still a little hesistant, I am super excited to put this "no-frame" to the test. I continue to ask Charles why nobody does it? And he says why do people not do a lot of things? Because they just follow what they know works. And that makes a ton of sense to me. Because I see so many great small camper manufacturers using some of the same components that are used in the large RV industry. And I often think there has to be another way. But, that means putting your neck out there a little bit. And even if it is better, people come to expect certain things. So in theory it could impact your sales as well. It could be better, but if the perception is that the standard thing is better it often is better to just keep with what people know. So yes, I am so excited to beat on this trailer. If it surives the Playing with Sticks test this could be something really big for the small camper world. As for the land speeder I didn't even have to beg. Inside I was begging though! Haha. They were really excited to throw me in or on all the vehicles. I think I forgot to highlight this in the first video, but the landspeeder with the removable engines actually has an engine in it for driving. They use it for parades! How cool is that!
Can’t wait to see more progress!!! Very intriguing!!
I promised myself that the next time you see this trailer it will be finished. Now I know I will make a lot of changes to it. But, finished enough for you to get a 99% understanding of what it should be. Outside and all. I am really excited about the outside. I have a feeling it may surprise folks.
That looks pretty awesome.
Ohhh finally! Cant wait to watch this! 😍 👏🏽
So good to see you on here!
@@PlayingwithSticks 👋🏽😊
Hey drew, tell charles to look up "Conformal tanks". the counter to "drag buckets"
You mean like the ones Burt Rutan's brother put under his LongEZ wings for is around the world flight? Jennifer you are always s delight to hear from.
@@teardroplite Hi charle. Nope i was thinking more along the lines of those used on the F-15 Silent eagle and being considered for use on all f-15's.
the Rafale also has some wonderful conformal tanks it can carry.
blended to be smooth to the body and allow smooth airflow over them. they don't increase the drag in in some cases even lower the drag.
LongEZ were just normal "drop tanks" style.
The new superhornet also has a fairly good conformal tank on it placed right over its engine intakes and blended right into the body.
@@jenniferstewarts4851 Wait until you see the fenders. They are headed in that direction.
@@teardroplite hehe, I suggested to drew, Conformal tank blisters, over the fenders... where its molded aerodynamically with a hatch to open to hide cargo, and the propane tank/tanks out of the air stream for clean air flow. Maybe propane one side, diesel on the other.
@@jenniferstewarts4851 5 pound propane in each side. Only one hooked up at a time.
Love that you are trying to develop a trailer that incorporates all the best features, and I am seeing a lot of great ideas. However... it does feel complicated. Maybe it will seem less so when I see the finished product rather than focusing on all the details of the build. Also, since I don't have children, I don't have any interest in having bunks (wasted space), and I would prioritize A/C over heat (I live in Virginia). 😊 Oh, and I'd love to have one of those paint can tools!
The intention for this trailer was to be very simple. Like I mentioned in the video, this is an experimental trailer for our family in terms of the complicated parts. The trailer that Charles would build would not have any of these complexities. The complicated components on the final build would just be the lift for the main top and lifting the bunk window. This should take about three minutes or less. All this other stuff you were seeing on our trailer is more for the channel. We want this trailer to be capable of testing anything that is out there. Beings this will be our main trailer. We don’t want to have to use other trailers just to test specific gear. Now, unfortunately, because we are designing this to be aerodynamically sound, this means for anything like a rooftop tent, awnings, road showers, basically anything you mount on the roof or the sides will have to use a different trailer to test those. Like you said, I think this will seem much less complicated when you see the final design.
Good points on the bunks. I’m assuming Charles will have two versions a family version and a non bunk version.
This is going to be a fantastic trailer.
Ecoflow power kit looks very intriguing, going to review it next.
Cheers
Hey Patrick! The more I look at them, the more I am intrigued as well. Where I really see myself using it is in applications where it sits out in the open. I think it would be great in our cargo trailer, a canvas tent/yurt or cabin. I think it looks clean enough to just hang out in the open. That way you can move it around and give it a new home from time to time.
Hi,since the fenders stick out 1 foot on each side of most teardrop's , why not make the camper two foot wider by having the wheel wells inside the camper. I'm a contractor who has drove aluminum step van's for 40 years and never had the wheel well's leak. The well's will be inside of the floor storage. Carbon fiber very cool but for the rich ! I have a all aluminum 5x10x5 WeeRoll trailer that only weighs 890 pounds dry weight. If I was building my own I would have two doors with window's and screen's so my side wall's could have cabinet's inside or flush door's on the outside for pull out storage , drop down shelf, shower access or what ever ( keep the wind drag down ) With a seven foot width your bed can go sideways leaving you plenty of room for inside table , seating and a porta potty, Thanks for reading, it's always great to hear how people are doing their builds and equipment ! Summer is coming - Enjoy
Thanks for asking. I've always wondered about this too.
We have had a few people ask that same question in the last couple of weeks. And you have a really good point. To be honest I don't know other than aesthetics. I find if you go that route it seems to only turn out two ways. It can either have a nice boxy almost military look if you are going for an offroad overland style trailer. Or it gets a really futuristic almost Jetson's like look if you are going for something more classic. Charles is a huge Aero guy, so when we were originally looking at this we highly considered something like you are talking about. But, I am a sucker for a classic nostalgic look. So this will have some pretty intense GMC style fenders. The neat thing about fenders that large though is that we will be able to hide one 5lb propane tank in the back side of each fender. I am excited to show you that in the final build. Carbon fiber for the rich, exactly! That is why Charles mentioned his special fiber at the end. He ran across something with some great qualities that will keep the cost down. I absolutly love the WeeRolls. I just suggested one to someone a few days ago. Wow, I had no idea some of them came in at 890lbs dry. Nice! I used to be a huge fan of cabinets. I am now changing my tune about them. I still think they belong, but I think a majority of manufacturers put them in the wrong place. I will talk about this in the next video. I couldn't figure out why I am so against larger travel trailers. And then it finally dawned on me after being in so many campers of so many different sizes and shapes. It is that hallway feel. I have come to realize, which was important in this design, that trailers don't really need to be big to feel big. They need to feel wide to feel big. And the problem is that most large trailers are built to feel narrow. Tight hallways and cabinets placed in ways that make you feel cabin sick much quicker than you would expect. When taking out our pop-up and our cargo trailer I quickly realized all you need is to stay away from the hallway feel and be very thoughtful about cabinet placement. I like your idea for how you would build it. Like you, we would do a second door. But on this build I found I just needed that extra wall space.
Transformer teardrop!😮 im in!🎉
Can't wait for more details!
If you go back to the pinned comment in this video (the first comment in the comment section) there is now a paragraph from Charles. It states quite a bit of information including thepricing of this trailer. And fortunately it came in much lower than many people thought it would.
A smaller 2-person version, queen up front, passthrough under the bed, mid-section with standup, and that style of galley, and nothing else volume-wise, would likely make a lighter weight, under 2,000 lb, camper trailer that I could pull with my Jeep Wrangler TJ. I love the idea of the rounded sides to cut side approach wind sheers.
This trailer has a gross weight of 1500 pounds. That is if you can think of enough heavy stuff to bring. Dry weight is about 800 depending on electrical components. If demand is there, we might make a smaller stand up version one day.
Oh, our first trailer is a 5x10 trailer. It got pushed into the corner, 80% finished, to build Drew and May their trailer. It will probably be for sale before this one.
For power, I would recommend the ability to use solar generators, such as the Bluetti. Easy to install, upgrade, and portable.
Agreed! That is what we state in many of our videos. It doesn't take much to power a trailer and a fridge.
Super cool. I often daydream about RV designs and I tend to have similar taste. If I were to do a custom it would be on a small RV. Now, where we are different though is I'm not going to even attempt to take our whole family of five in a teardrop or small camper. Yeah, right. I had to get a bumper-pull toy hauler. Our NoBo 19.8 was too small for us when we just had the two kids. Myself on the other hand, am a geologist in real life, and could see myself in one of these by myself or just me and the wife. But probably just me going out with the boys pulling it with my Jeep. But I think you're right making the pass-through to the kitchen and the swinging roof to open up the space. This is going to be a badass camper for sure. Also, another takeaway for me is 1) probably invest in Ecoflow 2) buy some Ecoflow products. The battery powered A/C (all versions sold out) opened my eyes. They're doing some good stuff. Also heard customer service is better than competitors.
We have been in quite a few larger travel trailers and 5th wheels over the years. And like you I fiind even our family struggles to stay in one. And I think there are a few factors at play there. #1 they are designed to be lived in. So because of this you end up not bringing the outdoor side entry tents and other features like bathrooms that, in our opinion, making camping easier and more enjoyable. And #2 most larger travel trailers are built with a layout that uses hallway living and an overuse of cabinets. Once we stayed in our pop-up camper and the cargo trailer I realized the issue wasn't as much about space, but more about design. By eliminating or thoughtfully placing cabinets and replacing narrow hallways with wide open areas you get a completely different indoor experience. But, I also completely agree with you that our style of camping isn't for everyone. So I am so glad to know there are options out there. And yes, good point on the EcoFlow I didn't mention it in the video. But, one of the things I love about this power kit is that it is part of Ecoflows larger Ecosystem. Like I said we built up the base of this trailer to support testing things like induction stovetops. And to do that we will probably need to attach additional power stations and solar. Another thing I REALLY like about the Power Kit is that it is not propriatary. We will be able to use our current solar panels and power stations from other brands. Which I think was a nice touch. I love ecosystems, but I hate being forced into them. If that makes sense.
Drew is your trailer completed. I’d love to see it in action!!!
Love it. Does no subframe mean there won’t be a hitch at the rear of the trailer? We bring mountain bikes along so use a hitch bike rack. What is the expected tongue weight? Maybe one could add bike trays to the tongue. 2 bikes ~ 70 lbs
There are tie down rings in the den for straping in bikes. The door is wide enough to make it easy to take things in and out. Drew has an electric bike he plans to keep in there on the road.
We have spoke with a lot of top-notch manufactures over the years. What I have learned from them is that they don’t believe in the rear mounted bike racks. I think you can even see Mark Harling from Bean Trailer talking about this in our black bean walk-through. They have found that the forces exerted on a bike from that mounting point are just too hard on a quality bike. I’ve heard people say if you don’t care about your bike, it’s fine, but if you spent some money on it, they all suggest mounting it on the tongue or if you have the space putting it in the trailer. Based on lifting this trailer in the shop, the tongue weight is going to be fairly low. We will be doing a lot of load tests over the summer to determine where the final placement will go. It’s usually a pretty simple formula. But at the same time I don’t want to go too conservative and move the wheels back so far that the tongue weight becomes heavier than it should be. All this to say, unless you have a really small vehicle adding bikes to the tongue shouldn’t be an issue. But I do hope Charles chimes in here because I’ve also never worked with a trailer that doesn’t have a frame, so I don’t know if those bikes would have some sort of negative impact up there.
@@PlayingwithSticks Because of the retracting tongue, a bike rack up front would have to be attached to the front of the body. That is doable and possibly not much of an aero problem if the tow vehicle is tall. But if it is low, the drag would be huge. I think storage on the front is really a redesign project.
I am very interested in seeing how the sides of the raised sections will be made.
I'm also not clear on where exactly the parents' bed is.
I am excited to show the side sections in the final design. The big part will be showing the gutters we put in for water management and hitting it with a power washer in the video. As for the parents bed it is a queen bed located about 3 inches below the bottom bunk. In our design, it run sideways meaning lengthwise from side of the trailer to side of the trailer. This is something our family prefers. But we assume most people would want it lengthwise, so I’m guessing the final design that Charles builds will be in the lengthwise configuration.
@@PlayingwithSticks I am looking forward to the next videos, then!
Regarding an east-west or side to side queen bed, spacewise that makes most sense. I can understand some people wanting the north south or head to tail direction of the bed, especially if it provides access to each side of the bed. Not only does this make it easier for both occupants to be able to get in and out without climbing over one another, but it makes putting bedding on the mattress much easier. As a person with arthritic knees, I am understanding more and more the appeal of easy bed making. Might Charlie be able to offer both options?
Start at 3:45 for a brief view of the queen bed with green pillows at the head of the bed.
Definitely Charles would be fun to talk to!
Oh man, he is one of those guys that has many interests. And then he has an expertise in a number of areas. Such a fun guy to talk with.
I love making it modular as needs change!
As I get older, I am finding myself more and more attracted to modular aspects of living.
This is an amazing build. Great job!!
Thank you Jeffrey! We appreciate the kind words.
VERY NICE DESIGN
Thank you! Glad you like it.
I am about to install brakes on my SunRay 109. I will definitely be using the Autobrake controller. Thanks for the tip!
At the moment I find it is most affordable to buy teh Autowbrake straight from the company. The AutowBrake just makes sense. Put it where it belongs, on the trailer). This way there is no delays, not required brake controllers, and you can swap tow vehicles without any extra effort. We have had a number of people ask us to get the Sunray 109 on the channel. I will have to look into it more.
awwww. i just went onto the link and Charles has passed away.
Glad this will be built for us to buy too! Hope the price can stay low. Have you checked out the Safari Condo Alto R1713/1723? Those too are retractable-roof teardrops (with no canvas: just aluminum sandwiching a honeycomb composite), though are bigger and more expensive. Would be great to your thoughts or a tour of them.
Love the Safari Condo. I was really careful with the title of this video. I searched high and low for almost a year now to make sure we are the first to do something like this. The Safari in small camper nerd circles would be called a "standy." Some may even call it a canned ham. But a teardrop trailer by definition is non-standing height and has a galley kitchen. So that puts our trailer in a weird spot definition wise. In transport/storage mode it truly is a teardrop. But, once the roof goes up it is more of a "standy" with a galley kitchen. At some point we probably may need to come up with a definition for this type of trailer. Our goal with this one was for it to live big , but tow and store small. Like you I would love to get in an Alto and share it with the community. I think it is a really incredible trailer. To be honest I have a bit of window envy. That is the one thing the Alto will have that this will not. We will add a good amount of windows. But nothing like that full length window they have.
If you go back to the pinned comment in this video (the first comment in the comment section) there is now a paragraph from Charles. It states quite a bit of information including thepricing of this trailer. And fortunately it came in much lower than many people thought it would.
Awesome!! Really looking forward to the final numbers, so far this price point is more in our families budget. We live in Oregon, so we have a lot of options and I’m honestly all about local. However, spending $18K to $23K for a teardrop that sleeps 2 is one reason we haven’t purchased. We have 1 child (now a tween) and a 6’3 adult. From the first video I watched about why you love teardrops, I knew you spoke my language. I’ve always thought I would have to design my own trailer….or keep waiting around. We’ve come close to purchasing a bigger trailer(I never wanted bigger than 16ft) but I don’t want indoor kitchen. Our biggest desire for 3 ppl (tall) is ability to use bathroom inside our trailer and sleep 3 ppl. I want a kitchen outside with a nice overhang. We want light weight to pull with an SUV through the paths of Oregon. I want something that’s going to last 20 years and be low maintenance, I don’t need electronics everywhere. We also want something that we can camp with all year around, even in winter. For us, fall and winter is important bc that’s when you get restless in OR during our rainy months. We have been leaning towards the 6x12 Bend Teardrop bc of the full size bunk, it has a lot of what we need at a price point that won’t hurt our budget. However, we are still on the fence. I’ve been waiting and waiting to see what’s going to be happening with this trailer and if it’s going to be manufactured, I’m so excited it is. We’ll be anticipating the next video so get the final look and functionality. While I understand the price is still being looked at around the $20k’s it a lot better that what I had said to my husband yesterday, when i literally was just taking to him about your build. I was like, “look it’s probably going to be some crazy number like $60K 😆 I’m tired of getting excited about a dream design and the prices are just out of my budget”. Was so happy when I came to your channel to see if updated video and saw this update video and read comments about estimates on price.
Thanks again!
Cant wait to see the end product. Very exciting!!!
Thank you! Is your name Houston. I have never heard that name. Houston Brown, I love the sound of it.
@@PlayingwithSticks Yes, that's my name. People with good taste usually like it. :)
@@HoustonBrownPhotography Nobody has ever said I have good taste. I will take it! Haha.
@@PlayingwithSticks I am sure your wife thinks so. :)
Very true!
Would love to see a version of this for couples with no need for bunk beds!
Just last night I listed 5 floor plans for this trailer. I even have a front galley in mind for the toy hauler folks! A single queen bed would be placed forward making the den larger. But first we need to see Drew, May, and kids camping in this for a few months!
@@teardroplite I’m having a hard time finding the other floor plans? So wish this was available now. Heading to Canada this summer, Glacier National Park then down through CO and ending up in NM. To be able to pull a camper like this with my Outback would be a dream! So excited to see the final product!
If your axle is going to track that wide; round the [slab]sides taper it front to back [more teardroppy] and add wheel wells. But always slow down or get off the road if crosswinds are bothering you.
We owned a 2009 HiLo Mojo. It was a hardside pop up teardrop.
We have seen a couple of those in Alaska. It’s a fun, unique design.
Just kidding! I was thinking of the standard Hi Lo camper. I have never seen that teardrop version. That’s crazy in all my research to find a pop up teardrop trailer I never found this. Thank you so much for sharing this.
Okay, my first comment on this design: The window for the upper bunk looks big enough that it could be an emergency escape window in case of fire. I strongly recommend that it be made so. The person in the upper bunk is effectively the farthest away from the doors and least able to get out should a fire start inside the trailer. Quite frankly, I would love each of the beds to have an emergency escape window.
Great observation Anne. I tried to not be redundant with the build videos. In the first video, we mentioned that yes, it’s an emergency egress. You’re absolutely right you need at least two exits from a dwelling like this. And the more the merrier.
@@PlayingwithSticks Great to hear. Please do give thought to each bed area, two different exits from each bed (just like bedrooms in houses) in case fire cuts off one route. Also, fire protection (extinguishers, fire blankets, etc.) within reach of each bed (and teach the occupants how to use them). It's a small space that can fill with noxious smoke and fumes quickly. Escape routes and gear must be within reach, to prevent anyone getting trapped inside or too disoriented to get out.
We have the fire exits covered, but this other stuff information mentioning is good to note. We have a CO and smoke detector. As well as an LP detector. But we never thought of the fire blankets and you reminded me I need to practice with the family the escape plan. I really appreciate this thoughtful response Anne.
@@PlayingwithSticks My eldest (age 21) and I are preparing to spend several months living out of my trailer while I work a volunteer job at a national monument. We have given a lot of thought to this and we will be practicing how to actually get out of the emergency escape windows. The bunk bed where my eldest will be is the furthest from the door and the included fire extinguisher. Nearly all of the trailer is between that bunk and the fire extinguisher. We are currently looking at where to place both a fire extinguisher and a fire blanket within reach of the bunk. The bunk is directly across from both the heater vent and the stove, and is right above the water heater, so basically the bunk is the most at risk should a fire occur.
Fire escape routes and fire safety doesn't seem to be a detail that is much discussed or consciously planned for in RVs. It is a little, enough to satisfy regulations, but I still see areas of concern. I would like to see it more conscientiously addressed throughout the industry.
Hey Drew! Just started following your content and have enjoyed your videos, insights, and expertise very much. I haven't come across anything from you yet that I could find talking in any detail about your thoughts on the hard shell pop-op A-frames like A-liner and Forest Rivers designs. I'd love to see a video or hear your opinion on these!
Potential looks High. I'm curious about possible racking in winds when it is open.
The crossmember that holds the hinges for the rear clamshell really doesn't look like it has enough structural strength.
I think I'm with you about the frame. Even J-B Weld gets fatigued after a while. Can't wait to see it done! You must be extremely excited!
You are absolutely right on the crossmember. That was a miscommunication one day on site. The door got cut in the wrong location when folks got tired. Lesson learned, don't make cuts when you are exhausted. The door will be moved to the front near the bed. Leaving a much stronger connection there in the rear. And good point on the racking in the winds. That is something that we will have to take into consideration when designing this. And yes, I am over the moon excited. I think about our camping adventures way too much! It is almost unhealthy. Haha.
Hahahaa!!!
Very excited to see how this turns out and did a Napoleon Dynamite “YES!” when I heard y’all landed on the eco flow electric system! I’m hoping what’s available to the public will have the standing room and maybe be 6’ 3” or taller..? Do you know what the standing room height will be Drew? I’m working on restoring a Boler fiberglass trailer and realizing just how much is sucks to always be hunched when I’m in the trailer. Thus, I keep window shopping other trailers while I work on my own restoration project 😅
Anyways, hope this turns out as good as it looks now, light aerodynamic trailers will help make my long term dreams of boondocking with an EV a reality! And hopefully affordable!
6' 5"
Glad you like it. In the first video we highlighted that it will be about 6'5" to 6'7" standing height. So it should accomodate most folks. I love Bolers. But I completely understand how it would be different at your height. I'm glad you mentioned EV. I have a feeling that will create an entirely new small camper market. I am super excited for it!
Hi Drew, I've looked at many of your great Teardrop reviews. Wondering if you've done any reviews of Oregon Trail'R?
I have! But, I just haven't got around to posting one yet. I think I filmed every one of their trailers. I have them scheduled for March 30th on the channel.
@PlayingwithSticks Great.....thank you so much Drew. I love your channel and all the teardrop information you post....big thumbs up. 👍
Since this does not have an actual frame, will this have the potential to add a receiver on the back like to attach a bike carrier?
Probably not. In general, we have learned even with traditional frames, with the types of force that is applied on bikes, mounted to the rear, they are much more suited to being mounted over the tongue. These rear carriers are great in theory, but are pretty hard on your gear.
I had a vertical bike carrier for around four bikes like the Velocirax in mind. I guess for sure with a tongue extension something like that could probably still work. I got to thinking though, would it ever be an option to use the mudroom/entry area as a toy hauler/bicycle option while traveling? Would depend partly on the type/size of entry door I guess. This would have the additional benefit of having the bicycles inside and secure while traveling
Regardless, I am eagerly awaiting the option to get signed up for one!
I like how you think. On this model, we built the door wide enough to easily take my bicycle in and out daily. We even installed a permanent mount on the floor for the bike. Charles already has a plan to make a toy hauler version of this in future. I would be excited to have one of those as well.
Hopefully those mods make it to the production model! With bikes and 3 children (any day now it will be 3 anyway), I think we can still use this larger trailer to its full potential!
Looks like you guys are going for a compact jr with all the pop tops
Thinking the kitchen countertop slides out and splits in half then pivots to each side. ( kinda u shape). Could give more counter space and give easier access to pass through to inside teardrop?
Well, the three burner stove pulls out so you have a L shaped work area. And you want to stay under the galley hatch for shade and rain. Design decisions are always a series of compromises.
Adding to Charle's comment if you check out our first video on the build he mentions that the galley in itself is a structural component to the trailer. However, he has talked about a future design with a removable galley. This is something you see from time to time on home builds. It is a really neat concept. Basically you can remove the entire galley section of the trailer to convert the trailer to a cargo hauler when needed. Maybe there is some version lingering in the back of our minds just waiting to pop up that incorporates some sliding and pivoting to create the shape you are mentioning. And then can also be removed for the cargo space.
😂 dark like The Hunt for Red October (one of my favs)
WHAT WOULD THE BASE PRICE BE FOR THIS TRAILER?
Based on Charle's philosophy it will be affordable for what it is. But, I have a feeling it will still be up there with the price of a decent teardrop based on the size of this and materials used. However, Charles' main goal with his company is to build VERY affordable teardrop trailer kits. These will be more modest 5X10 style teardrops that can be assembled in a long weekend up to about a week.
Based on Charle's philosophy it will be affordable for what it is. But, I have a feeling it will still be up there with the price of a decent teardrop based on the size of this and materials used. However, Charles' main goal with his company is to build VERY affordable teardrop trailer kits. These will be more modest 5X10 style teardrops that can be assembled in a long weekend up to about a week.
If you go back to the pinned comment in this video (the first comment in the comment section) there is now a paragraph from Charles. It states quite a bit of information including thepricing of this trailer. And fortunately it came in much lower than many people thought it would.
Ecoflow is really making tremendous strides, leaps and bounds at this point.
When Charles had me look into this that was one of the selling points for me. I love getting into ecosystems that can build upon itself. This system not only can communicate wih all the other EcoFlow products it also is not proprietary in nature. Which means I get to use my solar and power stations from other brands as well. At CES they just released some crazy new stuff. They have a self powered and governed lawn mower! Haha.
🍻want, please
With heat and a/c, please. We need a four season trailer.
Only question about no frame is whether the trailer will be able to be pulled from behind if it and the tow vehicle need to be pulled backwards.
Looks fantastic and innovative, plus the weight sounds amazing, but what makes this better and cheaper than a A-frame camper considering average family camping usage?
I could write you a book on this. Haha. But, I will keep it to just a small number of points. First let's start with construction. A-frames use laminate sidewalls and the bones are typical to what you find in the large rv industry. This trailer is carbon fiber. Not only is it impervious to water and lightweight, but it is also incredibly strong. Most folks, including myself origionally, think that a-frames are light becaue they are so small. But many of us are really sad to find out that our daily commuter cannot tow them. A-frames require indoor cooking. I like indoor cooking as a backup, but my belief is that most of us would benefit more from the primary kitchen being outdoors. Most people think grease and smells, but really it is more about space and usability. This trailer will come in at the low to mid- $20K range. So in terms of pricing they are pretty similar. A-frames have another big issue for families. And I keep hoping someone at one of these companies addresses this with a new layout. The issue is that these trailers, while large, are most often built with couples in mind. And the ones that are built for families are ridiculously heavy and long. Now, I say a lot of negative things here, but I find A-frames really special. The concept of this trailer is very similar in terms of inside layouot to the a-frames and pop-ups. Most camper trailers are designed around an awful hallway layout. A-frames and this camper are much more functional for families because the usable space is wider (square) vs. the hallway that everyone has to fight for to use any usable space in the trailer. Where our trailer would lose compared to an a-frame is that den space. An a-frame has even more usable square space than our trailer. Also this trailer was built around no modular sleeping areas. One of our biggest pet peaves of small trailers built for families is that you have to swap the beds for seating or eating areas twice a day. Hope this info helps a bit.
Have you considered dropping the floor ? In the early '60s, I remember seeing an ad in one of the diy magazines (Mechanix Illustrated or Popular whatever) for a "bottomless" camping trailer. The center walking area could be lowered when camping. Guess there were acordian side walls to keep everything water tight. Not sure what you did about the axle beam.
That tailgate looks like a headknocker😮
Maybe it was the first video we talked about it. The shape is not completed yet. It will be rounded out to prevent the headbanging.
My suggestion would be to consider a tandem axle trailer with this build. They're safer and will bounce and sway less than a single axle. Plus if you do blow a tire you can use a rachet strap and lift up the bad axle and limp to safety. Also with a tandem axle trailer you can use leveling blocks to lift up the trailer to change a bad tire. This eliminates the need to carry a jack with you.
True on all pts. here. One of the reasons and probably the biggest reason we won't be going with a tandem axle is weight. Even just the Timbren axles we put on this were much too heavy in terms of camper to axle weight ratio. We really want this trailer to be able to be towed by a large number of smaller vehicle. And then aesthetics. It is hard to see now, but when this camper is done it is going to look like a retro teardrop when traveling down the road. Baby moons, big old wheel wells, white walled tires. But, I completely agree with all your pts. We have had such a great towing experience with our double axle "half" converted cargo trailer. Even backing up is so much easier!
I'll say this - you have certainly piqued my interest.. Looking forward to the next installment...
I'm excited to here it piqued your interest! Thanks Ted.
Do you really think composite carbon fiber will be able to withstand the twisting and pressure that a teardrop camper receives especially if you take it off road any? I just see the resins cracking over time especially in colder climates. Any thoughts on this?
That’s a great question. Although we call this carbon fiber. In reality, there are different materials used in certain sections of the trailer where more stress will be placed. Carbon fiber is a very strong material, but it does have weaknesses . And yes, building small camper trailers with composites is common practice. Check out Bean Trailer or Escapod. Two of the best off-road trailers on the market are both made out of composite material.
Properly designed, a composite trailer will not move with the road. The torsional regidity of this trailer is very high. The suspension will take all the twisting. Many of the supercars have hade all composite vehicles on the road for over 10 years. BMW and Aston Martin have had partial composite structural chassis for over 10 years. Aviation and race cars have proven the technology as well. As Drew said the secrets are in the exact layup schedule. There is a lot of carbon fiber in this design. Also a lot of other fibers to absorb loads and prevent cracking. A lot of the black you see in these two videos is black paint to hide my fabric choices. You asked about resin cracking. Choice of resin is a critical part of composite design. My choices include enough elongation and toughening agents to insure no cracking. Look at the relatively primitive resins used in gliders that have sustained tens of thousands of landings on one wheel for 4 and 5 decades notw with no cracking. Also extensive testing will prove this desigh before we sell any.
Is the door going to be dutch or one single opening? Will it operate with the roof popped and closed? Aluminum or also the fiber material? Did I really just see Coroplast sheeting covered with the fiber reinforcement as structural pieces? If yes can we talk more about that?
Nooo. Not sign plastic. It is a modified honeycomb used in boat construction. More durable that Nomex honeycomb. As Drew says, good eye.
The door will open with the top down or up. Drew would not budge on that. Haha. It is a variation on Dutch door.
This looks amazing. How can I get on a waitlist? 😅
Right! I have a feeling Charles will have a few people knocking on his door.
If you go back to the pinned comment in this video (the first comment in the comment section) there is now a paragraph from Charles. It states quite a bit of information including thepricing of this trailer. And fortunately it came in much lower than many people thought it would.
Great video, big like, What is the price, and when is it going to be available to purchase.
Glad you enjoyed it! If you go back to the pinned comment in this video (the first comment in the comment section) there is now a paragraph from Charles. It states quite a bit of information including thepricing of this trailer. And fortunately it came in much lower than many people thought it would.
It is a sweet design! 😊
I am glad you think so. That means a lot coming from you!
@@PlayingwithSticksWhy, thank you! 😊
Is it still going into production? I watched the video. That was the “one” we were hoping for. That would’ve put anything else out of business for sure. .. not just a game changer but a game over for sure…
Unfortunately my friend Charles, the builder of this trailer, passed away last year.
@PlayingwithSticks Sorry to hear that, it was looking good. Maybe add a pinned note at the top with this update?
So… no video today eh?
I guess I’ll pick one from the collection today…
I hope everything is fine in your side Drew, looking forward hearing from you.
Saludos amigo