Are you going to do a video about how Judy Gellar treats Monica? There is a fan theory that says that Monica is not Jack Gellar’s daughter and I’d like to know if it is true or not.
Monica and Chandler really enhanced the show, in my opinion. It was nice to see a couple actually get to be happy together, unlike Ross and Rachel, who were only together for about a season. The whole group, with the exception of Chandler and Rachel, became exaggerated caricatures of themselves.
I would’ve much preferred a spin-off of Chandler and Monica instead of the Joey spinoff. We could’ve had a 2000’s sitcom with an actual healthy couple and not dumb dad/hot wife who constantly fight.
They were the healthier couple and there were moments in the show to back up the relationship. Like in the episode where Chandler asks Monica why she wouldn't date him, or in the episode where Ben is born and he tells her thst if neither are married by age 40(?) then they should have a baby together. I think Joey & Rachel could have worked had they done it when they showed Joey having the initial crush in season 8. Joey actually had some development during that time. They could have been a healthier relationship than Ross & Rachel.
Its sort of a comeuppance for him. Okay, the first divorce wasnt his fault. But his overfixation on trying to have the perfect image of what his life should be is the cause of his next two divorces. He rushed his wedding with Emily despite all the red flags and not being over Rachel and if he wouldve just gotten the anullment immediately after drunk marrying Rachel then, on a technicality, it wouldn't have counted as a divorce.
@@rylymbona I think they did the divorces a bit too much. The whole Ross and Rachel thing not being together should have ended sooner. They got married, had a baby together and lived together and yet were somehow not together through the whole thing. They should have made them a couple after his second divorce or after they got married or after Ema was born.
I actually liked them together. Joey was empathic to her when she was pregnant and so loving to Emma. Ross was just a selfish person and always felt insecure about loosing Rachel so he tried to undermine her. Joey was super secure and confident even if not intellectual. He was a happy person and could have easily let Rachel have a career and not worried as he was not insecure about his manhood. He would have happily stayed at home with Emma and played with her and had fun while Rachel went to work. He was actually what Rachel needed. Down to earth. She left her old life with Barry to grow, but Ross was part of the old circle and the kind of well off, self absorbed guy she was leaving behind.. Being with Joey would have shown real growth as it would have shown money didn't matter to her. It was so clear that Joey would have given up all his womanising and childish behaviours for Rachel and Emma and it would have given his character growth.
I totally agree. I thought Rachel and Joey made so much more sense to me than the forced ending where Rachel turns down a job in Paris because of Ross. They hadn't been together for so long at that point. I always asked myself why she would give up this opportunity for him when she had worked so hard to be independent throughout the whole series.
While the show is still insanely watchable, the episodes I tend to skip are the clip shows, Rachel believing that Joey proposed to her, and actually agreeing to marry him, and Monica thinking that Chandler is "into" sharks. It was usually well written, but the latter two plots stretched credibility.
Hated the shark thing, and really hated the retcon of London where instead of Monica and Chandler happening organically following their bad night together at the party, it turned out she had been looking to hook up with Joey and settled for Chandler instead.
@@maashworth5885 Monica looking for Joey and instead ending up with Chandler was a nod to the initial pairing of Monica and Joey in season 1 . It was poorly done . When was Monica even looking for Joey during the wedding?? We only saw Monica feeling insecure, Chandler comforting her and the next morning, they're in bed together. It was a retcon .
Rachel and Ross having a baby was the wrong move, in my opinion. The show's premise was the time period in your life when your friends are your family so having two of the main characters have a child just lost some of that magic. However, I think Ross and Rachel is misstep after misstep especially after their marriage and divorce. If Joey and Rachel's short involvement highlighted one thing it is that Ross' possessiveness over Rachel being "his" was so wrong since at that point they had been broken up for seven years and when that is pointed out to the audience, it makes their ending feel even more forced. In the end, I loved this show and every show has its low moments & less popular plots and Friends is no different but over all, its still one of the greatest shows ever made.
Would you believe me if I tell you that is the plot of my parents? I was that baby. And is tucked up but hey, life it self is a mess. I think that’s why I always felt related to this show XD
I agree. THAT, IMO, was the jump the shark moment. Most of what this video mentions is just a slow decline or change to the show. Rachel and Ross having a baby felt so desperate as it became the one permanent thing that would keep them connected forever and therefore ultimately continue having a messed up relationship.
Making all the characters more extreme as the show went on. Dumbing down Joey, making Rachel so controlling, Ross so angry and jealous, Monica so unhinged and Phoebe always contradicting herself. Only Chandler seemed like a proper character development
Rachel's pregnancy sticks out to me as a "running out of ideas" moment. There were good episodes with Emma in them, but they also had to consider her in every episode, so we knew Rachel and Ross were actually parenting.
That is what it was for me, too, especially since the whole point of the series was the part of your life when your friends are your family. So having Ross and Rachel have a baby yet not be together makes me feel like the show was not what it once was and in reruns, I don't watch a lot of those episodes.
Agreed, Joey wasn't exactly a genius at the beginning, but he was still capable. By the end, he was unbelievably dumb, but perhaps that still made him funny to some people.
It's not one thing it was a combination of many things. Monica and Chandler were always best friends. If you look at the early episodes they have clear love for each other and honestly the showrunners should probably have stopped the Ross and Rachel thing after Monica and Chandler got together.
I actually like the Joey’s unrequited crush on Rachel plotline. It felt genuine and like a real conflict that would happen in a group of friends. Plus there’s actually not a whole lot of unrequited crush plots on TV if you think about it. The Joey/Rachel pairing though felt like the writers running out of ways to keep the show going. I’m a huge Monica fan (I relate to her the most) and she is flanderized so much in Phoebe’s wedding. She’s not being Type-A in that episode, she’s just being mean.
I will ALWAYS advocate for Joey and Rachel, they had such romantic chemistry and I absolutely loved them together. Especially for Joey’s arc it made complete sense that he would fall for a close friend because he’s never allowed himself to become friends first and wait to have a relationship with them. At the very least it allowed him to recognize that was something he wanted. I also LOVED that this especially happened when she was pregnant/when she and Emma because they live together and he WOULD be such an incredible father. I hate that they were rushed and weren’t given the chance to try (in what WORLD would they not have amazing sex?! I mean cmon…) and I stand by they’re great together.
YES! I totally agree to this! The writers should have developed Joey after the relationship with Rachel, it was perfect the way it was going, even though the match were not popular
Honestly, I agree. In the midst of the messy bits that are Ross and Rachel, Joey’s crush with Rachel sort of encouraged him to mature more and more, especially with Emma in the picture.
You know what I hated? The ongoing Ross-Carol-Susan saga, because it was objectively going on for too long. In the episode where Susan and Carol get married we see Ross let it all go and showing maturity respect and compassion. But then later on there he goes seeing Susan as his romantic rival again, but for some reason he thinks Susan's after Emily? This was quite some shark jumping, let me tell you.
At least the girls did acknowledge that Ross was acting like a crazy jealous person and he kinda realized it too. That wasn't shark-jumping IMO, that was just a plot point that he learned from (though he didn't learn that much, it's Ross, after all 😅)
@@angelic5424 he did somewhat learn, but since he wasn't "stepping on this rake" for over a season(and was busy with Rachel), it kinda looks like it came out of nowhere.
The fact you think that Monica and Chandler’s relationship was a jump the shark moment jumps the shark for this video. I disagree with the fact that you included their relationship in this list.
Of course... Rachel's pregnancy was the beginning of the end. Whenever a Poochie arrives, that's a sign. Poor Aisha Tyler. She deserved to play an actual character.
When I rewatched the show as an adult I actually liked Rachel and Joey as a couple Considering it was Rachel's idea to get married why didnt the onus of securing an annulment fall on her??
I might be the only one who didn't like Monica/Chandler, simply because Monica became so unlikable and unhinged in later seasons, and I wanted better for Chandler.
Having watched friends all the way through after the show had already ended, I didn’t feel like it had a moment like that. It all flowed naturally for me
I feel like Friends more roller coastered up and down and all around the shark. BUT I will absolutely defend Joey and Rachel. Joey was so much better for Rachel than Ross. Ross belongs in the trash, Rachel should not have gotten off the plane. On that same note...Chandler and Monica are about the only reason to actually watch the whole show in the modern era.
I wouldn’t call any of these jumping the shark. I consider jumping the shark to be a plotline that is so ridiculous and adds no value to the show and/or a character moment that is completely out of character or unrealistic. In most of the examples given, the event that is being discussed actually continues to be a plot for several episodes or for the remainder of the show. I think the closest thing we could ever come to a jumping the shark moment in Friends was when Monica thought Chandler was into sharks… and that one is ironic considering it involves actual sharks (I wonder if it was deliberate). It’s an example of a plotline that is ridiculous and did not serve a continuing purpose in the show and is also out of character for Monica to believe it. However, I don’t really care all that much if that’s the worst that Friends could come up with. For every other thing mentioned, there is a purpose, regardless of whether the viewer liked that purpose or not.
Another thing people don't talk about when it comes to Friends is that only 3 out of the 6 characters actually had character development. 1. Chandler went from fearing committment to taking the leap with Monica in every way. 2. Ross became more self-aware, started to acknowledge his issues and even learned to laugh at himself every once in a while. 3. Rachel went from being an overly spoiled princess to a strong and hardworking executive and single mother. As for everyone else..... 1. Monica went from being kind, tough and sassy to a complete caricature of herself after season 4. 2. Joey went from being a ditz to a literal toddler trapped in a grown mans body. 3. Phoebe went from being kind and a little quirky to a manipulative bully.
She treated Chandler very poorly IMO after he started dating Monica. She brought up that she was dating a man who was Monica's real soul mate....In front of Chandler, her husband. That's the first example that comes to mind.
I disagree with most points here. We can criticize friends for its transphobia, fatphobia and other dog whistles, but from a writing standpoint it was done quite well, hit all the beats, had fun, intriguing and relatable characters and had a nice flow. No gaping potholes, very engaging episodes. Not deep or cerebral which it wasnt meant to be. Also. Impeccable acting!
Honestly I think when it comes to writing any kind of series whether books or television a lot of it is experimentation, trial and error seeing what can work and what doesn't. That's how we get our favourite moments and most hated moments you can never really tell until you take that shot
I actually thought Joey and Rachel were kind of cute. I knew people who liked them in real life. I do think the Ross and Rachel on again and off again was like the annoying part. I preferred Monica and Chandler who never had a break up. I did like Ross and Rachel in the early years and was happy with the ending but they shouldn’t have dragged the on/off again. I still every season of friends though
Seasons 2-5 were definitely the peak of the series. 8 and 6 still had a good amount of solid episodes. Post the first half of season 5 the characters definitely became more one note and zany, the humor more predictable, the romantic trials more groan worthy. The show never really “jumped the shark” or became bad. But it was definitely coming off as tired and transparent by the final two seasons. Also, Rachel and Ross really shouldn’t have ended the series together.
I didn't have a problem with Rachel and Joey. The best relationships I've seen started off as friendships and grew from there. They also had a respect for each other that, for instance, you didn't see from Ross in relation to what Rachel wanted to do with her life. Maybe they didn't have "chemistry" but they had a much better, and much healthier, dynamic than Ross and Rachel did. So even if not romantic partner material, they have one of the strongest relationships seen on the show. Speaking of Ross, his divorce rate, and the time it took to happen, doesn't surprise me in the slightest. In fact, the most unbelievable part of it is how easy it was to get a divorce considering it can take months for two people, who aren't fighting about anything, to get one. Where marriage is a lot simpler to get into. Ross is so toxic as a person, it's not surprising that any woman would want to get away from him after falling for his narcissistic bullshit. Monica and Chandler seemed like on of those unintentional chemistries you don't realize is needed for a on screen storytelling until you see it. That is, the actors worked so well together, it's surprising sometimes that they aren't a couple IRL. Everything involving Ross is just toxic. I know it was done for laughs, but hindsight screams that Ross is a major problem throughout the whole show. There comes a point in peoples lives when no matter how much they want it to work out, it just wont. Putting aside Ross's toxicity for a moment, it's possible for both people to not be the bad guy in the situation, it's just not something that can work. They took a functional adult in joey, who seemed just normal stereotype New Yorker, and turned him into someone I wonder how he didn't just get himself killed at some point, or thrown into jail out of pure stupidity. I don't think it ever "jumped the shark" I think it just settled into a status quo that lead to it losing it's charm. As tv shows get more popular, they have to get more obsure with story lines to stay relevant and/or interesting. You get viewers who want the dynamic to stay the same, but throw the same people into new situations, while others want to see growth, which means changing what people know of the show to make that happen. You can't please everyone.
Friends was a good show, but what pissed me off was that Rachel, the person with the largest character arc out of all the characters, was held back for her career (arguably the biggest part of her character) in favor of a relationship. She should've made that trip overseas, and Ross should've devoted himself to her by going with her.
Joey & Rachel is when I was like "Im out!" and it really felt like the show was getting too boring to binge. I love FRIENDS, I really do, but only the early to mid seasons when things were chill.
This video was a cheap grab for "views." Friends was iconic and insanely popular for a reason. When the finale aired, my brother was stationed in Iraq. One of his buddies was sent a dvd of the final episode. He said you never saw so many soldiers crammed into a small room to watch it. When the theme song played, they all did "the clap" and when it got emotional, they all joked about having dust in their eyes!
You are right that there were definitely moments which made fans think ‘wtf’ BUT the fact the show remained so popular even by the end even through all those weird moments shows it didn’t truly ‘jump the shark’ like other shows where a moment happened and people quit watching it
I think Friends jumped the shark with the final episode with Ross and Rachel, IMO. They were so back and forth throughout 10 seasons that their dynamic actually shifted into toxicity rather that genuine happiness that they wound up together. Now, I know that Ross and Rachel were of course fan favorites and one could argue that Friends couldnt finish witbout them being together (because they were each other's 🦞 😆), but if fan service is the reason for narrative stories instead of actual stories and character choices that make sense, then I would argue that that could be seen as jumping the shark. Your Honor.... the prosecution rests.
So.... NO mention of Fat Monica?? Or the transphobia with Helena?? Especially with hindsight, those storylines and how they're handled are so cruel and unnecessary
such kind of content about any show looks to me like an attempt to get more views for the channel. like, yeah, everybody could do better after knowing the outcome. yes, there might be not perfect episodes, but guys, really? making those endless videos of 'What is wrong with...?' I am sorry, has anyone for the last 10+ years made smth as good as Friends? All Hollywood does is create stupid remakes of old golden classics instead of making new masterpieces. Mb you should try and go film smth as big instead of creating such content? It is getting annoying already.
Actually, Monica & Chandler were awesome! It would have been nice to see Joey and Pheobe together too. Because you know 5 years later, Mike cheats, dumps her, and Joey would marry her.
Jumping the shark doesn't mean that the show starts to worsen, it means the show just hit rock bottom, it went so low, there's no chance of coming back. That's why friends jumped the shark with rachel and joey being a thing.
Every show, except for a handful like Seinfeld (arguable in season 9) and Breaking Bad, eventually does including Friends. This was most evident when Joey and Rachel dated and when Joey went full ret@rd. Also, let’s keep in mind that a recurring gag even a long running one does not necessarily mean jumping the shark. Especially if it is a beloved running gag. Ross’ divorce mishaps are actually funny. Jumping shark is more about when they try new things that seem out of complete character or are gimmicky and falls really flat.
Seinfeld had episodes and plotlines that were much more sillier than when it began, especially the last two seasons after the departure of co-creator Larry David.
Interesting video. I actually prefer the later seasons over the early ones. I agree that the characters did get a little goofier, though. Joey learning to speak French was one of the funniest things ever.
Well The Cycle of Life would imply that they are all gonna get in a more permanent relationship so it makes sense at least one of them would pair up after all this time.
I don't understand how more people don't get how pivotal this moment was into the changing of the entire show. Their pairing caused a chain reaction of events in the show. Chandler moved out to live with Monica therefore taking away the dynamic duo of Joey and Chandler living together. Rachel moves out and that living situation changed and the show functioned best when Joey/Chandler and Monica/Rachel lived together. Once Rachel moved in with Joey the whole show had changed. Monica and Chandler living together made Monica's OCD insufferable and Chandler just got boring. It's like once he moved into that apartment the zesty Chandler disappeared. The show was still watchable but not like the first 5/6 seasons.
Joey and Rachel getting together is the clearest jumping the shark moment, as it's so out of character for both of them and so short lived, it's ultimately completely pointless for the over all story. But the other reasons in this video are reaching, imo
Ross marrying every single woman is jumping the shark. Even if he only married 2 or 3 of them. Blah 🤢 Not only that. He can afford that many weddings and divorce?
IKR: I admit to watching many hours of the syndicated episodes during the week mindlessly & out of sheer boredom. But videos like this have been done to death and are pointless. I was actually pretty shocked to see this one come up. Why?
The addition of Ayesha Curry to the staff was a response to , criticism that there were no Black people on a show that was in the middle of NYC- it’s a shame because Ayesha was used as a token instead of a viable character .
I liked the IDEA of Rachel and Joey because I thought they had fun as friends and could be a cute couple. They just did NOT write it well. Chandler being "into sharks" was weird. I really hated Ross and Rachel as a couple once they were on a break. They were so toxic as a couple and I hated that they ended up together. Rachel should have moved to Paris and found a nice French dude. Ross should have found a professor or something or been on his own since he was such a weirdo. Monica and Chandler were the best couple on the show. Period.
I liked Rachel and Joey as well as Ross and Charlie. For me, Ross and Rachel's entire relationship is the worst part but when Ross realizes that they've been broken up for seven years so she is no longer "his" in any way, it makes them ending up together so forced. How great would it have been for Rachel's arc from pilot to finale been an independent woman rather than the woman who ends up with a guy because he had a crush on her in high school?
Dumbing down characters happens in most successful tv shows that have many seasons. Friends is still very watchable and funny tv show, even after I watched it for 5th time. It's usual though, that many seasons take tool on characters.
I thought in a lot of ways Joey and Rachel made a better couple than Ross and Rachel. Joey seemed to care about her and Emma more at times instead of Ross trying to save his hang over from hell to Rachel, and pass it off as a real marriage. Also, there were times when Joey was the smartest one in the group. Examples, This is all just a Moo point. He kisses Phoebe exactly when she needed it, after learning she lost a year of her entire life. Last one, putting Chandler in his place when he needed it most, in his emotionally stunted adulthood.
I LOVE EVERY SINGLE SCENE OF FRIENDS AND I LOVE RACHEL AND JOEY!!!!!!!!!!!!! Also, the latter seasons are incredibly funny, I just love this show so much, it all makes sense to me and it's a show so ofc they had to exaggerate some personality traits or plotlines lol
I think you're reaching more than the show did with many of these. Joey and Rachel were the obvious. The rest, not much. The Ross England debacle was one of the funniest and most popular arcs. I do agree with the many girlfriend props they used for Ross just as obstacles for Rachel.
Rachel&Joey hsppens in real life all the time. I thought Mona was an interesting contrast to Ross, taking him out of his shell. Charlie, could've been interesting, but then the show would lose one of its long-term gags with him and Rachel. I don't want to place the race card, but it doesn't look good.
My issue with Ross’s third divorce wasn’t that it was unbelievable. It was that the fact that he didn’t tell Rachel he didn’t get the divorce made him too unlikable
I feel like I’m the only one who never liked the “Mike” storyline. He became a character on an oops. He an Phoebe got a happily ever after based on said oops. Seemed way too fast 😢
The material they gave the actor who played Mona was terrible and made her character seem ridiculous. There is a reason I turned out of this show post season 8.
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Are you going to do a video about how Judy Gellar treats Monica? There is a fan theory that says that Monica is not Jack Gellar’s daughter and I’d like to know if it is true or not.
Monica and Chandler really enhanced the show, in my opinion. It was nice to see a couple actually get to be happy together, unlike Ross and Rachel, who were only together for about a season. The whole group, with the exception of Chandler and Rachel, became exaggerated caricatures of themselves.
I would’ve much preferred a spin-off of Chandler and Monica instead of the Joey spinoff. We could’ve had a 2000’s sitcom with an actual healthy couple and not dumb dad/hot wife who constantly fight.
And in season 9 it was flanderized 😢😢
Even as a kid who had no idea about actual relationships, I was mainly invested in Chandler and Monica towards the end of the show.
They were the healthier couple and there were moments in the show to back up the relationship. Like in the episode where Chandler asks Monica why she wouldn't date him, or in the episode where Ben is born and he tells her thst if neither are married by age 40(?) then they should have a baby together.
I think Joey & Rachel could have worked had they done it when they showed Joey having the initial crush in season 8. Joey actually had some development during that time. They could have been a healthier relationship than Ross & Rachel.
I loved the Ross' 3 divorces plot tho. It was hilarious.
No divorces in 1999 🥳
Just the one divorce in 1999 🥳
Yeah. Ross is obsessed with getting married and settle down so it makes sense that he'd jump into things and be divorced 3 times by end of the series.
Its sort of a comeuppance for him.
Okay, the first divorce wasnt his fault. But his overfixation on trying to have the perfect image of what his life should be is the cause of his next two divorces. He rushed his wedding with Emily despite all the red flags and not being over Rachel and if he wouldve just gotten the anullment immediately after drunk marrying Rachel then, on a technicality, it wouldn't have counted as a divorce.
@@rylymbona I think they did the divorces a bit too much. The whole Ross and Rachel thing not being together should have ended sooner.
They got married, had a baby together and lived together and yet were somehow not together through the whole thing. They should have made them a couple after his second divorce or after they got married or after Ema was born.
it’s funny how joey and rachel are so widely hated but were less toxic that ross and rachel
Child ! Are they ready for that discussion? Because Ross and Rachel was toxic
Exactly
I actually liked them together. Joey was empathic to her when she was pregnant and so loving to Emma.
Ross was just a selfish person and always felt insecure about loosing Rachel so he tried to undermine her.
Joey was super secure and confident even if not intellectual. He was a happy person and could have easily let Rachel have a career and not worried as he was not insecure about his manhood. He would have happily stayed at home with Emma and played with her and had fun while Rachel went to work.
He was actually what Rachel needed. Down to earth.
She left her old life with Barry to grow, but Ross was part of the old circle and the kind of well off, self absorbed guy she was leaving behind..
Being with Joey would have shown real growth as it would have shown money didn't matter to her. It was so clear that Joey would have given up all his womanising and childish behaviours for Rachel and Emma and it would have given his character growth.
I totally agree. I thought Rachel and Joey made so much more sense to me than the forced ending where Rachel turns down a job in Paris because of Ross. They hadn't been together for so long at that point. I always asked myself why she would give up this opportunity for him when she had worked so hard to be independent throughout the whole series.
It didnt make sense on a character level, even Aniston and Le Blanc hated that storyline.
While the show is still insanely watchable, the episodes I tend to skip are the clip shows, Rachel believing that Joey proposed to her, and actually agreeing to marry him, and Monica thinking that Chandler is "into" sharks. It was usually well written, but the latter two plots stretched credibility.
Oh man that last one, I like to pretend that didn't happen
And what about cigarettes and sex 🤮🤮🤮
Agreed!!
Hated the shark thing, and really hated the retcon of London where instead of Monica and Chandler happening organically following their bad night together at the party, it turned out she had been looking to hook up with Joey and settled for Chandler instead.
@@maashworth5885 Monica looking for Joey and instead ending up with Chandler was a nod to the initial pairing of Monica and Joey in season 1 . It was poorly done . When was Monica even looking for Joey during the wedding?? We only saw Monica feeling insecure, Chandler comforting her and the next morning, they're in bed together. It was a retcon .
Rachel and Ross having a baby was the wrong move, in my opinion. The show's premise was the time period in your life when your friends are your family so having two of the main characters have a child just lost some of that magic. However, I think Ross and Rachel is misstep after misstep especially after their marriage and divorce. If Joey and Rachel's short involvement highlighted one thing it is that Ross' possessiveness over Rachel being "his" was so wrong since at that point they had been broken up for seven years and when that is pointed out to the audience, it makes their ending feel even more forced. In the end, I loved this show and every show has its low moments & less popular plots and Friends is no different but over all, its still one of the greatest shows ever made.
Would you believe me if I tell you that is the plot of my parents? I was that baby. And is tucked up but hey, life it self is a mess. I think that’s why I always felt related to this show XD
I agree. THAT, IMO, was the jump the shark moment. Most of what this video mentions is just a slow decline or change to the show. Rachel and Ross having a baby felt so desperate as it became the one permanent thing that would keep them connected forever and therefore ultimately continue having a messed up relationship.
@@melissaarchibald6587Yes… the show should have ended when Monica and Chandler got married.
I couldn't stand that they made Joey less mature as the show continued. He was growing so much as a person up until season 8 or 9.
I cannot get over when Joey tries to speak French, it is just too unbelievable to be funny (even for Joey)
Making all the characters more extreme as the show went on. Dumbing down Joey, making Rachel so controlling, Ross so angry and jealous, Monica so unhinged and Phoebe always contradicting herself. Only Chandler seemed like a proper character development
I agree with this. Every character became caricatures of themselves.
Phoebe, the kind soul , became the meanest girl to exist . It felt so bad to look at her always belittling Chandler and sabotaging Monica .
How is Rachel's controlling?
I HATED “we were on a break!!” Cause it made me not want them together, even though it was end game
Rachel's pregnancy sticks out to me as a "running out of ideas" moment. There were good episodes with Emma in them, but they also had to consider her in every episode, so we knew Rachel and Ross were actually parenting.
That is what it was for me, too, especially since the whole point of the series was the part of your life when your friends are your family. So having Ross and Rachel have a baby yet not be together makes me feel like the show was not what it once was and in reruns, I don't watch a lot of those episodes.
Yeah it was definitely when they finally dumbed down Joey to be dumber than a toddler and when Rachel and Joey went out as a couple.
Agreed, Joey wasn't exactly a genius at the beginning, but he was still capable. By the end, he was unbelievably dumb, but perhaps that still made him funny to some people.
The former is more flanderization
They even dumbed down Rachel during that time. 🫠
It's not one thing it was a combination of many things. Monica and Chandler were always best friends. If you look at the early episodes they have clear love for each other and honestly the showrunners should probably have stopped the Ross and Rachel thing after Monica and Chandler got together.
Seasons 9 and 10 were definitely heading into that zone, but there were enough good episodes for it to still end on top.
The whole monkey thing was awful
I think Monica dating a millionaire she wasn't attracted to and then breaks up with because he wants to be a boxer was hella weird 🦈
I actually like the Joey’s unrequited crush on Rachel plotline. It felt genuine and like a real conflict that would happen in a group of friends. Plus there’s actually not a whole lot of unrequited crush plots on TV if you think about it. The Joey/Rachel pairing though felt like the writers running out of ways to keep the show going.
I’m a huge Monica fan (I relate to her the most) and she is flanderized so much in Phoebe’s wedding. She’s not being Type-A in that episode, she’s just being mean.
I will ALWAYS advocate for Joey and Rachel, they had such romantic chemistry and I absolutely loved them together. Especially for Joey’s arc it made complete sense that he would fall for a close friend because he’s never allowed himself to become friends first and wait to have a relationship with them. At the very least it allowed him to recognize that was something he wanted. I also LOVED that this especially happened when she was pregnant/when she and Emma because they live together and he WOULD be such an incredible father. I hate that they were rushed and weren’t given the chance to try (in what WORLD would they not have amazing sex?! I mean cmon…) and I stand by they’re great together.
YES! I totally agree to this! The writers should have developed Joey after the relationship with Rachel, it was perfect the way it was going, even though the match were not popular
Yes, plus it gave Joey tons of emotional depth.
Honestly, I agree. In the midst of the messy bits that are Ross and Rachel, Joey’s crush with Rachel sort of encouraged him to mature more and more, especially with Emma in the picture.
You know what I hated? The ongoing Ross-Carol-Susan saga, because it was objectively going on for too long. In the episode where Susan and Carol get married we see Ross let it all go and showing maturity respect and compassion. But then later on there he goes seeing Susan as his romantic rival again, but for some reason he thinks Susan's after Emily? This was quite some shark jumping, let me tell you.
At least the girls did acknowledge that Ross was acting like a crazy jealous person and he kinda realized it too. That wasn't shark-jumping IMO, that was just a plot point that he learned from (though he didn't learn that much, it's Ross, after all 😅)
@@angelic5424 he did somewhat learn, but since he wasn't "stepping on this rake" for over a season(and was busy with Rachel), it kinda looks like it came out of nowhere.
The fact you think that Monica and Chandler’s relationship was a jump the shark moment jumps the shark for this video. I disagree with the fact that you included their relationship in this list.
Of course... Rachel's pregnancy was the beginning of the end. Whenever a Poochie arrives, that's a sign.
Poor Aisha Tyler. She deserved to play an actual character.
When I rewatched the show as an adult I actually liked Rachel and Joey as a couple
Considering it was Rachel's idea to get married why didnt the onus of securing an annulment fall on her??
I might be the only one who didn't like Monica/Chandler, simply because Monica became so unlikable and unhinged in later seasons, and I wanted better for Chandler.
Having watched friends all the way through after the show had already ended, I didn’t feel like it had a moment like that. It all flowed naturally for me
They kept screwing over Ross with the writing but Schwimmer never stopped being funny.
I feel like Friends more roller coastered up and down and all around the shark. BUT I will absolutely defend Joey and Rachel. Joey was so much better for Rachel than Ross. Ross belongs in the trash, Rachel should not have gotten off the plane. On that same note...Chandler and Monica are about the only reason to actually watch the whole show in the modern era.
I wouldn’t call any of these jumping the shark. I consider jumping the shark to be a plotline that is so ridiculous and adds no value to the show and/or a character moment that is completely out of character or unrealistic. In most of the examples given, the event that is being discussed actually continues to be a plot for several episodes or for the remainder of the show. I think the closest thing we could ever come to a jumping the shark moment in Friends was when Monica thought Chandler was into sharks… and that one is ironic considering it involves actual sharks (I wonder if it was deliberate). It’s an example of a plotline that is ridiculous and did not serve a continuing purpose in the show and is also out of character for Monica to believe it. However, I don’t really care all that much if that’s the worst that Friends could come up with. For every other thing mentioned, there is a purpose, regardless of whether the viewer liked that purpose or not.
My mind immediately jumped to Chandler's Shark Pr0n episode.
I loved Rachel Joey romance tbh hoe they catched feelings how he took care everything was so well acted
No there wasn’t any moment where friends “jumped the shark” the Joey & Rachel arc was the biggest misstep though I believe
Man.....I was totally into Joey and Rachel developing feelings for each other
I felt a little differently about Mona - they had great chemistry and worked really well together :)
Another thing people don't talk about when it comes to Friends is that only 3 out of the 6 characters actually had character development.
1. Chandler went from fearing committment to taking the leap with Monica in every way.
2. Ross became more self-aware, started to acknowledge his issues and even learned to laugh at himself every once in a while.
3. Rachel went from being an overly spoiled princess to a strong and hardworking executive and single mother.
As for everyone else.....
1. Monica went from being kind, tough and sassy to a complete caricature of herself after season 4.
2. Joey went from being a ditz to a literal toddler trapped in a grown mans body.
3. Phoebe went from being kind and a little quirky to a manipulative bully.
how was she a manipulative bully?
She treated Chandler very poorly IMO after he started dating Monica. She brought up that she was dating a man who was Monica's real soul mate....In front of Chandler, her husband. That's the first example that comes to mind.
I disagree wholeheartedly about Joey and Rachel. I think that they were such a good couple 😭😭😭
I liked them too! I think the writers were just forced to write for the fan base at that point.
I'm sorry but no 😭 I hated them
I liked them together too
I disagree with most points here. We can criticize friends for its transphobia, fatphobia and other dog whistles, but from a writing standpoint it was done quite well, hit all the beats, had fun, intriguing and relatable characters and had a nice flow. No gaping potholes, very engaging episodes. Not deep or cerebral which it wasnt meant to be.
Also. Impeccable acting!
Honestly I think when it comes to writing any kind of series whether books or television a lot of it is experimentation, trial and error seeing what can work and what doesn't. That's how we get our favourite moments and most hated moments you can never really tell until you take that shot
Ross' divorces where not that bad, it just was brought up too often.
I actually thought Joey and Rachel were kind of cute. I knew people who liked them in real life. I do think the Ross and Rachel on again and off again was like the annoying part. I preferred Monica and Chandler who never had a break up. I did like Ross and Rachel in the early years and was happy with the ending but they shouldn’t have dragged the on/off again. I still every season of friends though
Seasons 2-5 were definitely the peak of the series. 8 and 6 still had a good amount of solid episodes. Post the first half of season 5 the characters definitely became more one note and zany, the humor more predictable, the romantic trials more groan worthy. The show never really “jumped the shark” or became bad. But it was definitely coming off as tired and transparent by the final two seasons. Also, Rachel and Ross really shouldn’t have ended the series together.
I didn't have a problem with Rachel and Joey. The best relationships I've seen started off as friendships and grew from there. They also had a respect for each other that, for instance, you didn't see from Ross in relation to what Rachel wanted to do with her life. Maybe they didn't have "chemistry" but they had a much better, and much healthier, dynamic than Ross and Rachel did. So even if not romantic partner material, they have one of the strongest relationships seen on the show.
Speaking of Ross, his divorce rate, and the time it took to happen, doesn't surprise me in the slightest. In fact, the most unbelievable part of it is how easy it was to get a divorce considering it can take months for two people, who aren't fighting about anything, to get one. Where marriage is a lot simpler to get into. Ross is so toxic as a person, it's not surprising that any woman would want to get away from him after falling for his narcissistic bullshit.
Monica and Chandler seemed like on of those unintentional chemistries you don't realize is needed for a on screen storytelling until you see it. That is, the actors worked so well together, it's surprising sometimes that they aren't a couple IRL.
Everything involving Ross is just toxic. I know it was done for laughs, but hindsight screams that Ross is a major problem throughout the whole show. There comes a point in peoples lives when no matter how much they want it to work out, it just wont. Putting aside Ross's toxicity for a moment, it's possible for both people to not be the bad guy in the situation, it's just not something that can work.
They took a functional adult in joey, who seemed just normal stereotype New Yorker, and turned him into someone I wonder how he didn't just get himself killed at some point, or thrown into jail out of pure stupidity.
I don't think it ever "jumped the shark" I think it just settled into a status quo that lead to it losing it's charm. As tv shows get more popular, they have to get more obsure with story lines to stay relevant and/or interesting. You get viewers who want the dynamic to stay the same, but throw the same people into new situations, while others want to see growth, which means changing what people know of the show to make that happen. You can't please everyone.
The cheesecake episode idk something about it always rubbed me the wrong way
That was one of the better episodes of that season 😂.
Friends was a good show, but what pissed me off was that Rachel, the person with the largest character arc out of all the characters, was held back for her career (arguably the biggest part of her character) in favor of a relationship. She should've made that trip overseas, and Ross should've devoted himself to her by going with her.
Joey & Rachel is when I was like "Im out!" and it really felt like the show was getting too boring to binge. I love FRIENDS, I really do, but only the early to mid seasons when things were chill.
The very first thing I said was "Joey & Rachel". Thank you!!
This video was a cheap grab for "views." Friends was iconic and insanely popular for a reason. When the finale aired, my brother was stationed in Iraq. One of his buddies was sent a dvd of the final episode. He said you never saw so many soldiers crammed into a small room to watch it. When the theme song played, they all did "the clap" and when it got emotional, they all joked about having dust in their eyes!
Thank You!!!!
You are right that there were definitely moments which made fans think ‘wtf’ BUT the fact the show remained so popular even by the end even through all those weird moments shows it didn’t truly ‘jump the shark’ like other shows where a moment happened and people quit watching it
I think Friends jumped the shark with the final episode with Ross and Rachel, IMO. They were so back and forth throughout 10 seasons that their dynamic actually shifted into toxicity rather that genuine happiness that they wound up together. Now, I know that Ross and Rachel were of course fan favorites and one could argue that Friends couldnt finish witbout them being together (because they were each other's 🦞 😆), but if fan service is the reason for narrative stories instead of actual stories and character choices that make sense, then I would argue that that could be seen as jumping the shark.
Your Honor.... the prosecution rests.
Charlie was an interesting character and suited the dynamic. Wish they had let them date longer.
So.... NO mention of Fat Monica?? Or the transphobia with Helena?? Especially with hindsight, those storylines and how they're handled are so cruel and unnecessary
such kind of content about any show looks to me like an attempt to get more views for the channel. like, yeah, everybody could do better after knowing the outcome.
yes, there might be not perfect episodes, but guys, really? making those endless videos of 'What is wrong with...?' I am sorry, has anyone for the last 10+ years made smth as good as Friends?
All Hollywood does is create stupid remakes of old golden classics instead of making new masterpieces. Mb you should try and go film smth as big instead of creating such content? It is getting annoying already.
Actually, Monica & Chandler were awesome! It would have been nice to see Joey and Pheobe together too. Because you know 5 years later, Mike cheats, dumps her, and Joey would marry her.
Well, who cares? The show is incredibly well scripted. Actors are fabulous. Jokes are hilarious. They're soooo cute. Just a pleasure to watch.
When try tried to make Joey+Rachel=🤢A thing.
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Jumping the shark doesn't mean that the show starts to worsen, it means the show just hit rock bottom, it went so low, there's no chance of coming back.
That's why friends jumped the shark with rachel and joey being a thing.
Friends never did anything ambitious enough to be jump the shark-worthy.
Every show, except for a handful like Seinfeld (arguable in season 9) and Breaking Bad, eventually does including Friends.
This was most evident when Joey and Rachel dated and when Joey went full ret@rd.
Also, let’s keep in mind that a recurring gag even a long running one does not necessarily mean jumping the shark. Especially if it is a beloved running gag. Ross’ divorce mishaps are actually funny.
Jumping shark is more about when they try new things that seem out of complete character or are gimmicky and falls really flat.
Seinfeld had episodes and plotlines that were much more sillier than when it began, especially the last two seasons after the departure of co-creator Larry David.
Please do a video about Frasier. Maybe something to do with Daphne and Niles.
Interesting video. I actually prefer the later seasons over the early ones. I agree that the characters did get a little goofier, though. Joey learning to speak French was one of the funniest things ever.
Well The Cycle of Life would imply that they are all gonna get in a more permanent relationship so it makes sense at least one of them would pair up after all this time.
Ron Howard did not "get his start" on Happy Days!
Once Monica and Chandler got married the show went to shit
I don't understand how more people don't get how pivotal this moment was into the changing of the entire show. Their pairing caused a chain reaction of events in the show. Chandler moved out to live with Monica therefore taking away the dynamic duo of Joey and Chandler living together. Rachel moves out and that living situation changed and the show functioned best when Joey/Chandler and Monica/Rachel lived together. Once Rachel moved in with Joey the whole show had changed. Monica and Chandler living together made Monica's OCD insufferable and Chandler just got boring. It's like once he moved into that apartment the zesty Chandler disappeared. The show was still watchable but not like the first 5/6 seasons.
Joey and Rachel getting together is the clearest jumping the shark moment, as it's so out of character for both of them and so short lived, it's ultimately completely pointless for the over all story. But the other reasons in this video are reaching, imo
It's a classic "It's season 9 and the writers are trying to keep interesting things happening!" situation.
Ross marrying every single woman is jumping the shark. Even if he only married 2 or 3 of them. Blah 🤢
Not only that. He can afford that many weddings and divorce?
Omg, enough with the Friends already. Move on!
IKR: I admit to watching many hours of the syndicated episodes during the week mindlessly & out of sheer boredom. But videos like this have been done to death and are pointless. I was actually pretty shocked to see this one come up. Why?
things were going downhill... but they still ended when a lot of cache was in the bank...
The addition of Ayesha Curry to the staff was a response to , criticism that there were no Black people on a show that was in the middle of NYC- it’s a shame because Ayesha was used as a token instead of a viable character .
It was a waste of an incredible actress and I still love her character.
Aisha Tyler*
I liked the IDEA of Rachel and Joey because I thought they had fun as friends and could be a cute couple. They just did NOT write it well.
Chandler being "into sharks" was weird.
I really hated Ross and Rachel as a couple once they were on a break. They were so toxic as a couple and I hated that they ended up together. Rachel should have moved to Paris and found a nice French dude. Ross should have found a professor or something or been on his own since he was such a weirdo.
Monica and Chandler were the best couple on the show. Period.
I liked Rachel and Joey as well as Ross and Charlie. For me, Ross and Rachel's entire relationship is the worst part but when Ross realizes that they've been broken up for seven years so she is no longer "his" in any way, it makes them ending up together so forced. How great would it have been for Rachel's arc from pilot to finale been an independent woman rather than the woman who ends up with a guy because he had a crush on her in high school?
Joey and Rachel never happened!
Came here to say Lisa Kudrow and David Schwimner served the strongest performances on da show
I think Joey and Rachel were made for each other.
Dumbing down characters happens in most successful tv shows that have many seasons. Friends is still very watchable and funny tv show, even after I watched it for 5th time. It's usual though, that many seasons take tool on characters.
Do a jump the shark series
I thought in a lot of ways Joey and Rachel made a better couple than Ross and Rachel. Joey seemed to care about her and Emma more at times instead of Ross trying to save his hang over from hell to Rachel, and pass it off as a real marriage. Also, there were times when Joey was the smartest one in the group. Examples, This is all just a Moo point. He kisses Phoebe exactly when she needed it, after learning she lost a year of her entire life. Last one, putting Chandler in his place when he needed it most, in his emotionally stunted adulthood.
I LOVE EVERY SINGLE SCENE OF FRIENDS AND I LOVE RACHEL AND JOEY!!!!!!!!!!!!! Also, the latter seasons are incredibly funny, I just love this show so much, it all makes sense to me and it's a show so ofc they had to exaggerate some personality traits or plotlines lol
Monica and Chandler are one of the best parts of FRIENDS.... i Do Not believe there are people who don't like them together 😢
friends reminds me of gen x. i hated this show and resented its popularity
I think you're reaching more than the show did with many of these. Joey and Rachel were the obvious. The rest, not much. The Ross England debacle was one of the funniest and most popular arcs. I do agree with the many girlfriend props they used for Ross just as obstacles for Rachel.
Rachel&Joey hsppens in real life all the time.
I thought Mona was an interesting contrast to Ross, taking him out of his shell.
Charlie, could've been interesting, but then the show would lose one of its long-term gags with him and Rachel. I don't want to place the race card, but it doesn't look good.
My issue with Ross’s third divorce wasn’t that it was unbelievable. It was that the fact that he didn’t tell Rachel he didn’t get the divorce made him too unlikable
You just couldn't resist having Green Chef sponsor this video because Green is Rachel's last name? :)
Epilogue: The correct answer is Joey and Rachel
I feel like I’m the only one who never liked the “Mike” storyline. He became a character on an oops. He an Phoebe got a happily ever after based on said oops. Seemed way too fast 😢
I hate the show
Very useful information
The material they gave the actor who played Mona was terrible and made her character seem ridiculous.
There is a reason I turned out of this show post season 8.
I loved Joey and Rachel as a couple. I thought they had to be together since season one. Also, they make more sense than rachen and toxic Ross.
Rachel and Joey's "relationship" was so uncomfortable to watch
Rachel and Joey should have never happened
Some people end up like a Joey like they are just simple and don't experience a lot of (at least open) growth
Did you all know Ron Howard was the narrator's voice on Arrested Development 🤯
Unpopular opinion: I SHIP JOEY AND RACHEL
Half of these are not even close to jumping the shark. And you failed to mention Russ.
Yeah the pairing and then the proposal. It's like this is a comedy not a serious show in that way.
Icky
"Did Paul McCarteny ever play bass?"
No tv show is perfect lol it's just a goofy feel good comedy
What was wrong with Mona?
Please make a video like this but with The Simpsons.
When Ross tries to kiss his cousin… that’s the moment for me
Ron Howard stared in the Andy Griffin show
We were on a break was 100% was jump the shark for me.