I appreciate your comments, but I think what we need the most is to hear from you how it SHOULD be done correctly! Any videos of yours that you can recommend that talk about the best way to build this kind of gate?
Oh my. Ok. Since folks ask for comments on the right or better way to do this: String line first, mark hole locations, dig holes, sure, dry set, put plumb along the way, and, add water along the way so you have a hydrated mix in the hole, taper off the top off the cement cap, set posts to a string, plumb. The fence clips are totally legit, you can set them the same through the whole fence by shooting a level line thru all the posts and then using a 'story stick' to place them where you want them. Fasten with HDG 1 1/2 by 8d nails that are made for them. These are the best way because it's simple to repair or replace a whole panel this way. As far as gates go? I don't build them this way at all. I buy 2x12 cedar and cut Rails and stiles, and dowel and screw them together forever. Infill with fence boards or wire grid material that adds a lot of rigidity to the 'rectangle'. Hang gates on 4x6 or 6x6. I don't like 4x4'PT for posts in the first place--too much warping. Rails, fir is ok, cedar is better. Hot dipped galv or stainless fasteners only. position the nails cleanly so it doesn't look peppered... I usually build fences with a rail at the top of level posts, and a cap on flat above the rail, so no need to set fb's to a ledger up there. Another way to make a gate that will not sag--use longer posts and put a 'beam' above it that locks the 'rectangle' the gate's going to hang in, solid. looks way better too. A real entrance with overhead beam you can grow a vine on or something.
Soooo I see all your videos criticizing everyone but I don’t really see you showing how to build fences. Great TH-cam idea. People love negativity. Kudos to you.
I just finished my own fence 3 days ago. I used pretty much the same setup for the door. The door ended up larger than I originally planned on. So I may be doing some research to make it a little sturdier. I made a few mistakes when putting in my posts. It wasn’t easy working around the water line and a tree stump. My biggest mistake was setting one post a few inches too far to the left so my boards didn’t fit and I had to modify it. I could have sworn I checked it before I set it. I had 2 more posts that were just about 2 inches off but I was able to manage it. I was glad to go back to work!! lol By the way if anyone reads this I highly recommend the Ryobi auger. I just wish it had a 10 inch bit for a bit more wiggle room when you aren’t a professional and are just winging it!!
I build the fence across the gate opening cut and hinge one 2x4 runner at a time add ez brace install hardware and move on also leave 1/2 “ gap between pickets for latch and hinge
I've read the documentation that's available for those pressure treated posts, and the ones I've looked at from the big box stores indicate they are not designed to come in contact with the ground. My experience with posts set in concrete is that the mix holds water against the post and accelerates rot. I set my posts in a hole with a couple inches of gravel under the post and them gravel tamped around the posts. As Joe said, you need to keep checking plumb as you tamp in the posts.
Your facial expressions are priceless, and its why i find your constructive criticism so funny. We learn differently each of us, but ive learned a great deal watching these sir! Thank you for that.
Those rail hangers are designed for decks. I generally use a diagonal cable and turn buckle for my gates. This way the gate can be adjusted through change of seasons. My current deck gate is over twenty five years old. I just put new screws to support it for many more years. The old ones will soon give it up. Turn buckle is still like new.
Friends can really help keep projects running smoothly. I'm an engineer now, but I was a framer in my early 20s. If I build something and it's not square, straight or curved just right, I hear no end of commentary like, "Been a few years since you swung a hammer, eh?", or "Stick to the slide rule, bro!". 👍😁
I live in New Zealand and I liked your comment about the house and fence moving at different rates. During the Christchurch earthquakes my fence rail 6" clear of my plaster cladding still managed to punch a hole in my house cladding due to the house swaying back and forward with the 7 on the Richter scale quake! The house was fine but the internal contents were everywhere.
I really like the anti-sag gate kits...with the turnbuckles...that way you can always tighten it up when it sags, so long as you adjust those turnbuckles out before installation, because if they're too tight to start, then you will have to re-adjust the cable and expose crimps on the cables.
Ugh… THAT IS NOT A CHERRY PICKER. THAT IS AN ENGINE HOIST. A cherry picker gets you up high into the branches of a cherry tree - way up there. It has a bucket or a platform for a person to stand in or on, and raises that up way high via a long articulated boom arm (min. 12ft length) or a scissor lift. Because the whole point is to get a person up into a tree, up to where the fruit is so it can be picked. And because of that vertical lift, it has a massive and stable base with large wheels and a large engine for the hydraulics so it can’t tip over. Source: am orchardist who has done a fair bit of mechanical work. I know the difference between a cherry picker and an engine hoist.
I've been looking at a lot of videos for how to rebuild and install my sagging double driveway gate. I'm definitely not going with the DIYers and appreciate Joe's critiques of various DIY projects. For commenters who are disappointed this is not a DIY instruction video, I think the valuable lesson is the physics of how gates work and what makes them sag - so I can take this information and apply it to any future fence and gate projects
I understand Describing a project is a bit tough to follow but ill try my best to be cear. . The last gate i built was a 42.5" gate in the center of a 9 foot wide section of short fence. I put in two 8 foot 4×4 post 3 feet down in to the ground and 5 feet above, while paying very ver close attention to both placement spacing and verticals. For the fence and gate, I cut two 10 foot 2×4 to 9 feet One for for the top rail and one for the botom rail. Then i jumped the gun and nailed the pickets to the fence all the way across before i even cut out the section for the gate. After nailing the pickets i added the left and right vertical pieces to what would become the gate door. I pocket screwed them in as well as added more nails to the pickets. Same thing when i added the cross brace in compression. I trimed down the remaining 1 foot cutoffs from the 10 foot 2×4 and nailed them to the 4×4 on both sides to support from below what would become the gate, such that they support the gate when its closed. And I added a short section of 2×4 to the 4×4 post such that it provided a back stop to the gate when when the gate is closed. After all that i added the hinges and latch. My pickets were 5.5 inches wide with 0.5 inch gaps beween pickets. Consequently squaring the pickets to the vertical post left a 0.5 inch gap on both the hindge side and the latch side. which allowed me to neatly sawzall 0.5 inches off the top and bottom horizontals on both the hing side and the latch side. It was fun for me to plan and build it like i did and have it come out perfect, neat and clean, well suported while it's closed where it spends 99% of its time. And providing back stop support in case one agressivly closed the gate a bit hard.
On that gate, I feel like if he just did a second layer of 2by where the corners overlapped, and he glued them full length, and made the cross brace into an X-brace, then screwed it every 12 inches or so, that gate would be really strong. Also, for a 6'x6' gate, I'd have bought two sets of hinges, and put 4 of them on there. It's an overbuild, but I was raised on the idea that overkill is underrated.
Missed opportunity when he cut the 2x6 header & footer to fit inside the 2x4, if he reversed that, gone with the X brace everything would have been much better. Over building is fine, but I think I would have gone with 3 hinges.
The main problem with this fence is that when he poured the dry cement for the post in he didn't make a mound running away from the post. now, any water will run down the side of the post and pool where it will rot the wood. He didn't paint the bottom of the post with any kind of insect, and water prevention coating. There are coatings you can make yourself that will extend the life of the post for years. He didn't put any gravel at the bottom of the post hole for any kind of drainage, so the water does not just sit and pool and the bottom and rot out the post. This could have been the straightest fence with the perfect gate, but until the posts are prepared and placed properly it is all a work in futility.
DIY: “there’s not all that much that goes into building a gate” PRO: “there’s quite a lot that goes into building a gate…and this gate is already off to a rough start” LMAOOO pretty much sums up every DIY vs pro situation
I fabricate wrought iron gates. Theres A Lot of prep into building a Quality gate. The DIY network has made our trades a nightmare, as now every Harry Homeowner and Krafty Karen thinks they are engineers and technicians. Granted it creates work in the long run for us handyman types, but going behind shotty workmanship is never ideal. I wish people would just call the pro from the get-go. Great channel👍
A Z-back will support the gate indefinitely if done correctly. Mine is 30 years old. I screwed every vertical board to the Z. And I screwed 4 scraps (triangular) of MDO plywood at the 4 corners on the back side to make them even more secure. No metal plates involved at all.
how has nobody else not noticed that last fence board at the latch is about a half inch or more thinner at the bottom!? this would drive me crazy no matter how cost effective this was...
Yeah that gate was an intersting effort but he did install an anti-sag fence by using that bowed 4x2 as it sags over time it will straighten itself out and as the joints on the gate open up and settles it will align itself with the top of the fence so just as long as the dog keeps chewing at the bottom of the gate as he tries to get to the cat that should align too! The guys a f🙊cking genius!
I normally use string lines and line levels to run fence boards straight! But I was taught the old way of doing things. Also agree about the not attaching fences to houses I've seen people drill holes in stucco and attach post which is an no no in my book just put an post next to house!
The fence boards play a role here. Each one is a triangle when attached to the diagonal, and reenforces the load bearing of itself, and the weight as a whole. aAs for the outside (and the rest) the last fence board (if attached to the outer 2x4) bonds the 2x4. And.. each fence board is attached both above and below, and hopefully, to the diagonal, creating a very strong and ridgid structure, less likely to sag or warp. I agree that that too few screws were used in the metal reinforcements.
I concur that a metal straightedge would be better than wood, but the bow could be an optical illusion caused by the camera lens. The wider the angle, the greater the fisheye effect.
Me and my cousin started a fence co back in the late 90's, and built or erected somewhere around 7 or 800 fences....yea we were not that good at it but we got the job done and yea we had a ton of call backs on our gates. well we no longer build fences because we are getting up there in age, but I find the Ajust -A Gate is a really good system..it's like aluminium/steel frame where your gate will never sag..really cool product...I still use them today if someone wants a gate fixed...
Great video Joe, how did you manage to keep a straight face when he was showing the drill mounted on the engine hoist..........I have to admit this one made me chuckle. Good on you for not slating the guy and staying professional and respectful throughout, but that gate....... 🤔
"It's not perfect, but it turned out alright"..Would of taken about a 1/2 hour overall to make it perfect. A gate like that would of drove me crazy until I fixed it. Not to mention my friends would be saying, "who's the idiot that built that?"
Exactly. Do it right and you only have to do it once. He saved time when building it but he's gonna have to spend the same amount of time or more to fix it once it inevitably begins working improperly. On the bright side his friends won't be asking him to help build their gate lol.
His main issue was that he didn’t realize his house exterior wall isn’t straight, and he should have placed a post near the wall to hang the gate off of, not the house itself.
Whenever I've built a fence I run a string line across the top with a simple nail and then I level the string. This is a much less costly way of doing the same thing.
That gate is going to warp from the one-sided plate attachments. If you allow any asymmetry in, it will move. I don't think a single layer gate will ever hold true unless you're using a metal gate frame that covers at least one right angle. An all wood build needs to acknowledge the third dimension. I would make at least one diagonal have full overlap onto the top and bottom boards and preferably onto the hinge board for a positive force transfer with minimal shift. My preference is to use a much wider board for the main diagonal brace. And the corner joints would have to be hard solid with no flex.
In my computer science classes they were always talking about "fence post problems". If you need a post every ten feet, how many posts do you need for 100 feet of fence? The answer they were looking for was eleven. But when I helped my grandfather lay fence when I was a kid, he doubled up the the two end posts at each end, so he'd use fifteen.
@@JoeEverest It was a wire fence, and the doubled posts were there to anchor the bracing. He ran a wire from the top of the next-to-last post to the base of the last, to transfer the tension to the ground.
Last gate I put up was 6' tall 12' wide, for a "John Deer", I braced all four corners, with 1/8th stainless plates and added a vert on center, then ran low to high toward swing end, has ran through two sets of hinges but still has not sagged. {11 years now}.
Other than the brackets I have build many a gates like that never had any issues,,if there ever is an issue its because the post moved ,,make sure to connect fence boards to diagonal for good diagram
About the galvanized plates, he's only using them to help get the gate square. He's not depending on them to hold the joints together. At 11:02 he says he's toe screwing the joints with 3 inch deck screws, "that's really where your power is." I also noticed that he used larger plates on 2 corners to attach the diagonal brace. However, you could make a stronger, less likely to sag gate if you used this brace first with the plates, running it from the inside top to the outside bottom. The galvanized plates would work very well with screws to keep it from sagging as a tension brace. This sounds counterintuitive to usual gate construction, but not if you do this... Follow up with a second brace cut in 2 pieces as a compression brace, making an "X", from the outside top to the inside bottom. It will work fine in 2 pieces because the weight of the gate is compressing the 2 pieces together. The first, tension brace, needs to be in one piece because the weight of the gate is pulling it. You now have a gate supported in 2 directions.
Drill isn't designed to be pulled from the bit. That housing can take compressive force of you drilling down, but not the tensile forces of using it as a prying tool.
Just subscribed, you’re easy on the ears, man. Lol, what I’m trying to say is, you’re easy to listen to. Good info, and look forward to watching more. 👍
You nailed it...... for a weekend warrior (DIY guy), it'll work to keep the dogs and kids in, while providing privacy. However, it's ugly as hell and will likely need to be fixed in 3-4 yrs due to sagging. Thanks for the pro tips on this video.....much appreciated!
I really prefer to half-lap the outer frame of a gate. And run a cross beam through the middle, cut to accommodate the compression brace. Those screw holes through the galvanized brackets are going to loosen up, if they haven’t already.
Growing up where my grandpa was a carpenter I have never heard the words "Approximately level". This is one of those. . It IS Level or it is NOT Level. You don't eyeball anything, especially if you're setting it in concrete. "Approximately level" is AKA "cruisin for a bruisin" or "getting knocked upside the head" and being asked again if I could tell if it's level and I could tell you that in elementary school because it's watching bubbles in lines. I could do that job as a kid.
Spent 60 bucks on a metal frame gate, 2x4 top and bottom only hold the fence boards on. works well, been 5 years and the gate is still straight as a arrow.
Lic contractor since 1976, I say get the F off my property. I would use 2-1/2 x 1-1/4 x 1/8 wall, 21' long Aluminum Tubing and bend it to form the gate Frame. Add X bracing and depending on rail length I would add upper and lower rail support coming off the X. Muggy weld all corners and intersections. Attach 1x2 L metal to stiffen the gate on the latch side. Note this also provides a place for the latch bolt to enter coming off the post. Last I wouldn't use Home depot wood. I re-saw bandsaw my boards to 7/8" Attach wood from the back side to avoid damaging the wood fibers Finally Pour Super Glue on the top of the boards to seal the pores.
I mow lawns and I told my customer to make sure I get at least 6 ft to fit my zero turn into on a new fence she was having built. She was in complete agreement and she told the builders 6 to 7 ft even if it has to be a double gate. She told them multiple times. Last week I showed up and I had to completely open the gate to get through with less than 1/2 inch of clearance between the post's if I'm rubbing on one side. My cut is 61 inches and the deck is 63 with about 1.5 inches added for the chute blocker. At least I can fit but it's going to be a pain for anyone who mows for the next 20 or 30 years. I would have them come back and change it but it's not my call.
Top Jig hack. Put a nail or screw into the top of post and run a string pulled tight between them and make sure it's level from the top of 1 post to the next. Total cost? 2 reusable screws and a piece of string. I never understand why people spend money on something you can do just as well with a piece of string. Plumb lines for example. Get a laser level and mark the position and ensure that.... Hang a plumb line and mark the top and bottom. Once it stops moving, gravity will ensure it's vertically level.
I am just a DIY'er. But IMO ... I see the following: 1. 2 hinges not enough. Use at least 3, and check the load rating of the hinges; 2. I would use PT wood or cedar and stain, and use "cut and seal" at all cuts; 3. I would use 6x6 for posts; 4. Make sure screws are properly sized - most hinge kits have crappy screws - not long enough; 5. He attached one end of the fence to an old post that looks wobbly - that post should be replaced; 5b. I agree with you - plumb those posts from the start using braces and keep checking throughout; 6. He is using a "compression brace" on the gate its oriented correctly - but orientation should be highlighted, and he really does not need that hardware at the corners if he were to construct it correctly; 7. He should really grade the ground underneath the gate to ensure year round clearance when using; 8. It looks like he completely filled the post hole with quickcrete before adding water .... it should be noted that he should just fill to a couple inches below grade - then fill with water so it meets ground surface and agitate;
My grampa was a carpenter from the 1940s to the 1970s. He would use use plywood gussets on a gate but he wouldn’t have used them as the primary method of framing the gate
I think that if my final words where, "it's not perfect, but it ended up alright..." I would not post the video. I do appreciate seeing the mistakes though, it is food for thought. Too bad the video on how to do something actually turned into a video on not how not to do something. I appreciate you Joe, this was a great video, and I appreciate the other guy for his video as well, he did illustrate some techniques, now it's about refining them.
Looked more like the camera is giving a fisheye look, might account for the bow in the top piece. Give the outward bowing of the far right post. I know I've seen some footage people take with terrible fisheye lens effect and straight boards across saw horses look like they bend over 45 degrees. It did appear like there were other issues, just referring to the visual in the beginning.
he did mention he toe nailed 3" screws into the gate main square wood. Not sure from which one to which part of the other, but it would have helped as well... or just buy the gate kit from home depot that helps home diy folks do it. bit extra $ for the kit but it works
Joe I made a gate. Not finished yet. Instead of a cross brace. I used 4 heavy duty shelf brackets. One on each corner. These braces have the 45 degree support on them. Thoughts?
I did something similar with my porch gate. Its about 3ft by 3ft. Its been on for over a year and there is zero sag so far. I would imagine with larger gates it might become a problem, but I like the idea of two points taking the load.
I guess it would be helpful if you explained how a gate is supposed to be braced. The way he did it seems to me like it would work well to me. But I am also a DIY. I have seen a lot of gates built by contractors that sagged because they were assembled with nails and some part of the gate ends up pulling the nail directly out. At least with metal straps holding pieces of wood together, the nails (or screws) are not being pulled directly out.
Having a metal plate attaching the two members doesn't really do anything beyond what just screwing them together directly would do. Basically, the steel plate 100% ensures that the heads of those screws aren't going to be pulled apart from each other under normal conditions. BUT, it does nothing to prevent the ends of the screws from being pulled through the wood. As you said, one big cause of sagging gates is that the fasteners fail when trying to transfer the load from the unsupported end through the other members to the hinge post. There will just be too much load for a nail or a screw to hold indefinitely and it will pull through the wood. Often you will find that the fasteners have bent over time. Screwing the boards together through a metal plate doesn't really prevent or help with that type of failure. Of course the load is not high enough to break the steel plate, so that plate is going to hold the heads of those screws and its going to stop those screw heads from moving apart from each other. But the wood is the same; whether you screw through it directly or have a steel plate between your screws, the amount of 'grip' that the wood has on the fastener is the same because you haven't done anything to strengthen the fibers inside the wood. So if you were worried that over time the wood will expand, contract, twist, etc., that is still going to happen; the steel plate doesn't change the cycle of wood gaining and losing moisture. And when it does happen, that wood is going to push and pull on the fastener with basically exactly the same force as it would have without the steel plate. And if the wood isn't strong enough to hold onto the end of that nail or screw, well it still isn't strong enough after you put a steel plate on the outside. Over time, it will pull through just the same, only difference being there's a nice steel plate over by the head.
We terminate panels to the house. I hear what your saying about terminating a fence panel to the house. The reason we do this is because most houses have a foundation/footing drain that won't allow a post to be installed next to the house. How would you suggest terminating the fence in this situation?
Would you mind walking me through what I should’ve and shouldn’t do with building a new fence 6’ tall wood panel and installing a gate where there in dirt on one side and brick on another? Old fence is predated to early 1900
Why do the two horizontal rails need to be the longer side of the square that make up the fence support as opposed to the upright rails? I saw that my neighbors did this as well and just followed suit but wasn't quite sure why I only see it that way. Thanks.
I use two by fours on the top and bottom and diagonal and don't use any on the sides the fence boards themselves are my sides. The lighter you can make your gate the longer it'll be before it sags. Also make sure you screw the pickets into the diagonal also this keeps it from pulling apart. This Z type gate is also easy to trim when it does begin to sag.
highly skeptical of the "dryset" concrete. exposing all the dry aggregates to water starts the chemical reaction that results in bond formation. if the water & aggregates aren't thoroughly mixed, the fewer/weaker bonds form. wouldn't be surprised if the footing crumbles in a few years. what's your professional opinion of "dryset"?
I certainly understand where you’re coming from, but I’ve also seen real-world demonstrations and the dry-set posts looked almost identical to the wet-set posts. Even down to the core
Why don't you lot over the pond use 1.8 closeboard, mortice posts, shaped arris rails, set 1650 feathers to top of posts ,gravelboards underneath, messing about with a string line on the top of fence is a slow way of doing it
what makes a gate sag ? I built a gate frame just like the one the fence installers installed on the original gate and it still sags. Did the original fence installer put the frame up backwards. I saw a video by King's fine woodworking where the diagonal cross 2x4 was installed with the low side next to the hinges and the top side next to the latch side of the gate? Is this how you would do it? Could you do a half lap and do two cross diaganol boards for extra strength? Again this would add more weight to the gate. Also, I can't get a commercial lawn mower in my backyard. What is the widest gate you can make using 2x4 frames or any frame?
Who do u think u r sitting there and judging other peoples builds and telling everyone if it’s being done right or wrong huh ?? lol. Just kidding. I couldnt resist. Definitely entertaining, watching you- watching videos!
What is the widest that I can do for the wooden gate? would 50 inches too wide? with the technique of half lap joint for the gate frame (excuse for the term. I might get it wrong) with a diagonal up from hinge side.
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Nothing I like more than a video of someone criticizing someone else without showing the correct way. Thanks!
@@deastman2012 several videos on the page of how we build gates…
I appreciate your comments, but I think what we need the most is to hear from you how it SHOULD be done correctly! Any videos of yours that you can recommend that talk about the best way to build this kind of gate?
Agreed!
I guess he's not in the business of teaching, just criticizing.
@@fborquez99 I actually found a video on his page that does show a gate build.
@@fborquez99 Of course he isn't in the business of teaching... he's in the business of building them himself.
I was about to say the same.
Oh my. Ok. Since folks ask for comments on the right or better way to do this: String line first, mark hole locations, dig holes, sure, dry set, put plumb along the way, and, add water along the way so you have a hydrated mix in the hole, taper off the top off the cement cap, set posts to a string, plumb. The fence clips are totally legit, you can set them the same through the whole fence by shooting a level line thru all the posts and then using a 'story stick' to place them where you want them. Fasten with HDG 1 1/2 by 8d nails that are made for them. These are the best way because it's simple to repair or replace a whole panel this way. As far as gates go? I don't build them this way at all. I buy 2x12 cedar and cut Rails and stiles, and dowel and screw them together forever. Infill with fence boards or wire grid material that adds a lot of rigidity to the 'rectangle'. Hang gates on 4x6 or 6x6. I don't like 4x4'PT for posts in the first place--too much warping. Rails, fir is ok, cedar is better. Hot dipped galv or stainless fasteners only. position the nails cleanly so it doesn't look peppered... I usually build fences with a rail at the top of level posts, and a cap on flat above the rail, so no need to set fb's to a ledger up there. Another way to make a gate that will not sag--use longer posts and put a 'beam' above it that locks the 'rectangle' the gate's going to hang in, solid. looks way better too. A real entrance with overhead beam you can grow a vine on or something.
I wish you would have linked to, or given a step-by-step correction of what WOULD be the strongest gate build.
Soooo I see all your videos criticizing everyone but I don’t really see you showing how to build fences. Great TH-cam idea. People love negativity. Kudos to you.
Fair point, I would encourage you to build a gate following this example and let us know how it turns out.
I just finished my own fence 3 days ago. I used pretty much the same setup for the door. The door ended up larger than I originally planned on. So I may be doing some research to make it a little sturdier. I made a few mistakes when putting in my posts. It wasn’t easy working around the water line and a tree stump. My biggest mistake was setting one post a few inches too far to the left so my boards didn’t fit and I had to modify it. I could have sworn I checked it before I set it. I had 2 more posts that were just about 2 inches off but I was able to manage it. I was glad to go back to work!! lol By the way if anyone reads this I highly recommend the Ryobi auger. I just wish it had a 10 inch bit for a bit more wiggle room when you aren’t a professional and are just winging it!!
Jean shorts, slip-on shoes and the occasional "thumbs up" for the camera....... characteristics of a true craftsman.
A quick side-by-side comparison of _this_ vs adequate vs premium would be good.
I appreciate the feedback!
I build the fence across the gate opening cut and hinge one 2x4 runner at a time add ez brace install hardware and move on also leave 1/2 “ gap between pickets for latch and hinge
I've read the documentation that's available for those pressure treated posts, and the ones I've looked at from the big box stores indicate they are not designed to come in contact with the ground. My experience with posts set in concrete is that the mix holds water against the post and accelerates rot. I set my posts in a hole with a couple inches of gravel under the post and them gravel tamped around the posts. As Joe said, you need to keep checking plumb as you tamp in the posts.
I’m always entertained by how they sound so confident and speak as if they do this everyday. Like…who you teaching?
Your facial expressions are priceless, and its why i find your constructive criticism so funny. We learn differently each of us, but ive learned a great deal watching these sir! Thank you for that.
Very welcome, appreciate you watching and weighing in!
Those rail hangers are designed for decks.
I generally use a diagonal cable and turn buckle for my gates. This way the gate can be adjusted through change of seasons.
My current deck gate is over twenty five years old.
I just put new screws to support it for many more years. The old ones will soon give it up. Turn buckle is still like new.
Friends can really help keep projects running smoothly. I'm an engineer now, but I was a framer in my early 20s. If I build something and it's not square, straight or curved just right, I hear no end of commentary like, "Been a few years since you swung a hammer, eh?", or "Stick to the slide rule, bro!". 👍😁
Good to hear I’m not the only one!
I live in New Zealand and I liked your comment about the house and fence moving at different rates. During the Christchurch earthquakes my fence rail 6" clear of my plaster cladding still managed to punch a hole in my house cladding due to the house swaying back and forward with the 7 on the Richter scale quake! The house was fine but the internal contents were everywhere.
I really like the anti-sag gate kits...with the turnbuckles...that way you can always tighten it up when it sags, so long as you adjust those turnbuckles out before installation, because if they're too tight to start, then you will have to re-adjust the cable and expose crimps on the cables.
Me too.......except for the fact that they've nearly doubled in price in the past 18 months!!
I just put some eye bolts in and run a loop of fencing wire. Then I tighten it with dowel rod.
Turnbuckles can warp a gate...
I say as long as guy tried his best to build this while using what knowledge he has then he did good.
Agreed!
Sometimes results matter.
If you're in the business of throwing away money and not improving your skill set then sure...
Ugh… THAT IS NOT A CHERRY PICKER. THAT IS AN ENGINE HOIST. A cherry picker gets you up high into the branches of a cherry tree - way up there. It has a bucket or a platform for a person to stand in or on, and raises that up way high via a long articulated boom arm (min. 12ft length) or a scissor lift. Because the whole point is to get a person up into a tree, up to where the fruit is so it can be picked. And because of that vertical lift, it has a massive and stable base with large wheels and a large engine for the hydraulics so it can’t tip over.
Source: am orchardist who has done a fair bit of mechanical work. I know the difference between a cherry picker and an engine hoist.
A cherry picker in human form is Wayne Gretzky.
I've been looking at a lot of videos for how to rebuild and install my sagging double driveway gate. I'm definitely not going with the DIYers and appreciate Joe's critiques of various DIY projects. For commenters who are disappointed this is not a DIY instruction video, I think the valuable lesson is the physics of how gates work and what makes them sag - so I can take this information and apply it to any future fence and gate projects
@@curiouscat3384 appreciate you watching and weighing in!
Diy is always the best way my gate lasted 28 years, plus it is fun to build and if you make a mistake its easy to fix
I understand Describing a project is a bit tough to follow but ill try my best to be cear. .
The last gate i built was a 42.5" gate in the center of a 9 foot wide section of short fence. I put in two 8 foot 4×4 post 3 feet down in to the ground and 5 feet above, while paying very ver close attention to both placement spacing and verticals.
For the fence and gate, I cut two 10 foot 2×4 to 9 feet One for for the top rail and one for the botom rail. Then i jumped the gun and nailed the pickets to the fence all the way across before i even cut out the section for the gate. After nailing the pickets i added the left and right vertical pieces to what would become the gate door. I pocket screwed them in as well as added more nails to the pickets. Same thing when i added the cross brace in compression. I trimed down the remaining 1 foot cutoffs from the 10 foot 2×4 and nailed them to the 4×4 on both sides to support from below what would become the gate, such that they support the gate when its closed. And I added a short section of 2×4 to the 4×4 post such that it provided a back stop to the gate when when the gate is closed.
After all that i added the hinges and latch. My pickets were 5.5 inches wide with 0.5 inch gaps beween pickets. Consequently squaring the pickets to the vertical post left a 0.5 inch gap on both the hindge side and the latch side. which allowed me to neatly sawzall 0.5 inches off the top and bottom horizontals on both the hing side and the latch side.
It was fun for me to plan and build it like i did and have it come out perfect, neat and clean, well suported while it's closed where it spends 99% of its time. And providing back stop support in case one agressivly closed the gate a bit hard.
On that gate, I feel like if he just did a second layer of 2by where the corners overlapped, and he glued them full length, and made the cross brace into an X-brace, then screwed it every 12 inches or so, that gate would be really strong. Also, for a 6'x6' gate, I'd have bought two sets of hinges, and put 4 of them on there. It's an overbuild, but I was raised on the idea that overkill is underrated.
Missed opportunity when he cut the 2x6 header & footer to fit inside the 2x4, if he reversed that, gone with the X brace everything would have been much better.
Over building is fine, but I think I would have gone with 3 hinges.
The main problem with this fence is that when he poured the dry cement for the post in he didn't make a mound running away from the post. now, any water will run down the side of the post and pool where it will rot the wood.
He didn't paint the bottom of the post with any kind of insect, and water prevention coating. There are coatings you can make yourself that will extend the life of the post for years.
He didn't put any gravel at the bottom of the post hole for any kind of drainage, so the water does not just sit and pool and the bottom and rot out the post.
This could have been the straightest fence with the perfect gate, but until the posts are prepared and placed properly it is all a work in futility.
DIY: “there’s not all that much that goes into building a gate”
PRO: “there’s quite a lot that goes into building a gate…and this gate is already off to a rough start”
LMAOOO pretty much sums up every DIY vs pro situation
😂 fair point
I fabricate wrought iron gates. Theres A Lot of prep into building a Quality gate. The DIY network has made our trades a nightmare, as now every Harry Homeowner and Krafty Karen thinks they are engineers and technicians. Granted it creates work in the long run for us handyman types, but going behind shotty workmanship is never ideal. I wish people would just call the pro from the get-go. Great channel👍
It always 'looks' simple....
@@norfolk7573Heah, iron work especially requires a lot of planning to get it right.
A Z-back will support the gate indefinitely if done correctly. Mine is 30 years old. I screwed every vertical board to the Z. And I screwed 4 scraps (triangular) of MDO plywood at the 4 corners on the back side to make them even more secure. No metal plates involved at all.
how has nobody else not noticed that last fence board at the latch is about a half inch or more thinner at the bottom!? this would drive me crazy no matter how cost effective this was...
Very smart you'll hear when it opens/ closes inside the house.
Introducing another piece of hardware introduces another point of failure, great quote and yes gates break on other countries as well.
All fair points!
Yeah that gate was an intersting effort but he did install an anti-sag fence by using that bowed 4x2 as it sags over time it will straighten itself out and as the joints on the gate open up and settles it will align itself with the top of the fence so just as long as the dog keeps chewing at the bottom of the gate as he tries to get to the cat that should align too! The guys a f🙊cking genius!
😂
I normally use string lines and line levels to run fence boards straight! But I was taught the old way of doing things. Also agree about the not attaching fences to houses I've seen people drill holes in stucco and attach post which is an no no in my book just put an post next to house!
Can't beat lap joints for a gate, much stronger than the metal plates and a few screws.
The fence boards play a role here. Each one is a triangle when attached to the diagonal, and reenforces the load bearing of itself, and the weight as a whole. aAs for the outside (and the rest) the last fence board (if attached to the outer 2x4) bonds the 2x4. And.. each fence board is attached both above and below, and hopefully, to the diagonal, creating a very strong and ridgid structure, less likely to sag or warp. I agree that that too few screws were used in the metal reinforcements.
I concur that a metal straightedge would be better than wood, but the bow could be an optical illusion caused by the camera lens. The wider the angle, the greater the fisheye effect.
Me and my cousin started a fence co back in the late 90's, and built or erected somewhere around 7 or 800 fences....yea we were not that good at it but we got the job done and yea we had a ton of call backs on our gates. well we no longer build fences because we are getting up there in age, but I find the Ajust -A Gate is a really good system..it's like aluminium/steel frame where your gate will never sag..really cool product...I still use them today if someone wants a gate fixed...
I appreciate you sharing your experience, we’re actually looking into the adjust-a-gate system right now!
DIY BUILD. Not Pro Expert like you Joe. So it is what it is, DIY.
Ahhhhhh, Springfield MO. That explains a lot about you.
Joist hangers make it easier for DIYers because it eliminates nailing at an angle.
Great video Joe, how did you manage to keep a straight face when he was showing the drill mounted on the engine hoist..........I have to admit this one made me chuckle. Good on you for not slating the guy and staying professional and respectful throughout, but that gate....... 🤔
"It's not perfect, but it turned out alright"..Would of taken about a 1/2 hour overall to make it perfect. A gate like that would of drove me crazy until I fixed it. Not to mention my friends would be saying, "who's the idiot that built that?"
Exactly. Do it right and you only have to do it once. He saved time when building it but he's gonna have to spend the same amount of time or more to fix it once it inevitably begins working improperly. On the bright side his friends won't be asking him to help build their gate lol.
His main issue was that he didn’t realize his house exterior wall isn’t straight, and he should have placed a post near the wall to hang the gate off of, not the house itself.
Whenever I've built a fence I run a string line across the top with a simple nail and then I level the string. This is a much less costly way of doing the same thing.
That gate is going to warp from the one-sided plate attachments. If you allow any asymmetry in, it will move. I don't think a single layer gate will ever hold true unless you're using a metal gate frame that covers at least one right angle. An all wood build needs to acknowledge the third dimension. I would make at least one diagonal have full overlap onto the top and bottom boards and preferably onto the hinge board for a positive force transfer with minimal shift. My preference is to use a much wider board for the main diagonal brace. And the corner joints would have to be hard solid with no flex.
I believe thats an optical illusion. It looks like he is filming with a fish eye effect on his camera to be able to get everything inside the frame.
Great point!
In my computer science classes they were always talking about "fence post problems". If you need a post every ten feet, how many posts do you need for 100 feet of fence?
The answer they were looking for was eleven.
But when I helped my grandfather lay fence when I was a kid, he doubled up the the two end posts at each end, so he'd use fifteen.
Hmm, not sure that would add enough strength to warrant the added expense. But, couldn’t hurt!
@@JoeEverest It was a wire fence, and the doubled posts were there to anchor the bracing. He ran a wire from the top of the next-to-last post to the base of the last, to transfer the tension to the ground.
@@JoeEverest End posts on chain link fences are larger and stronger than line posts....Same for wooden posts on barbed wire fences, etc.
We need a fence builder to put out a video that reacts to that hat you're wearing.😲
Last gate I put up was 6' tall 12' wide, for a "John Deer", I braced all four corners, with 1/8th stainless plates and added a vert on center, then ran low to high toward swing end, has ran through two sets of hinges but still has not sagged. {11 years now}.
The "joist hanger" isn't a joist hanger. It's a fence bracket (likely) made by Simpson Strong-Tie.
Other than the brackets I have build many a gates like that never had any issues,,if there ever is an issue its because the post moved ,,make sure to connect fence boards to diagonal for good diagram
About the galvanized plates, he's only using them to help get the gate square. He's not depending on them to hold the joints together. At 11:02 he says he's toe screwing the joints with 3 inch deck screws, "that's really where your power is." I also noticed that he used larger plates on 2 corners to attach the diagonal brace.
However, you could make a stronger, less likely to sag gate if you used this brace first with the plates, running it from the inside top to the outside bottom. The galvanized plates would work very well with screws to keep it from sagging as a tension brace. This sounds counterintuitive to usual gate construction, but not if you do this...
Follow up with a second brace cut in 2 pieces as a compression brace, making an "X", from the outside top to the inside bottom. It will work fine in 2 pieces because the weight of the gate is compressing the 2 pieces together. The first, tension brace, needs to be in one piece because the weight of the gate is pulling it. You now have a gate supported in 2 directions.
Drill isn't designed to be pulled from the bit. That housing can take compressive force of you drilling down, but not the tensile forces of using it as a prying tool.
“ Should work out no problem “ famous last words
Thank you! I’m stoked about finding your channel some time ago
Thanks for watching!
Just subscribed, you’re easy on the ears, man. Lol, what I’m trying to say is, you’re easy to listen to. Good info, and look forward to watching more. 👍
I appreciate it, thanks for subscribing!
You nailed it...... for a weekend warrior (DIY guy), it'll work to keep the dogs and kids in, while providing privacy. However, it's ugly as hell and will likely need to be fixed in 3-4 yrs due to sagging.
Thanks for the pro tips on this video.....much appreciated!
3 or 4 years? It wont last that long
relax dude. it's just a fence. If he hired a "professional" it would have cost thousands and no guarantee a professional would do a better job.
he mastered the art of making a rectangle leave the guy alone XD
😂 fair point.
Mine has been up 4yrs. shifted a bit but still not a problem!
I really prefer to half-lap the outer frame of a gate. And run a cross beam through the middle, cut to accommodate the compression brace. Those screw holes through the galvanized brackets are going to loosen up, if they haven’t already.
Growing up where my grandpa was a carpenter I have never heard the words "Approximately level". This is one of those. . It IS Level or it is NOT Level. You don't eyeball anything, especially if you're setting it in concrete.
"Approximately level" is AKA "cruisin for a bruisin" or "getting knocked upside the head" and being asked again if I could tell if it's level and I could tell you that in elementary school because it's watching bubbles in lines. I could do that job as a kid.
Spent 60 bucks on a metal frame gate, 2x4 top and bottom only hold the fence boards on. works well, been 5 years and the gate is still straight as a arrow.
Lic contractor since 1976, I say get the F off my property.
I would use 2-1/2 x 1-1/4 x 1/8 wall, 21' long Aluminum Tubing and bend it to form the gate Frame.
Add X bracing and depending on rail length I would add upper and lower rail support coming off the X.
Muggy weld all corners and intersections.
Attach 1x2 L metal to stiffen the gate on the latch side. Note this also provides a place for the latch bolt to enter coming off the post.
Last I wouldn't use Home depot wood. I re-saw bandsaw my boards to 7/8"
Attach wood from the back side to avoid damaging the wood fibers
Finally Pour Super Glue on the top of the boards to seal the pores.
Lol as a carpenter for 35 y ,i admire your demeanor. .
I mow lawns and I told my customer to make sure I get at least 6 ft to fit my zero turn into on a new fence she was having built. She was in complete agreement and she told the builders 6 to 7 ft even if it has to be a double gate. She told them multiple times. Last week I showed up and I had to completely open the gate to get through with less than 1/2 inch of clearance between the post's if I'm rubbing on one side.
My cut is 61 inches and the deck is 63 with about 1.5 inches added for the chute blocker.
At least I can fit but it's going to be a pain for anyone who mows for the next 20 or 30 years.
I would have them come back and change it but it's not my call.
Yeah, really should have been a 72” opening.
you provide good feedback on all the DWI fence vids...thx
I use a 6×1 kick bored at the bottom of the posts .run that level and the fence top will look right.
😊
Makes perfect sense, I appreciate you sharing your process!
Looks like a 4x4 pressure treated and not a 4x6, but I've not finished the video so jumped in and hoped for the best.
Top Jig hack. Put a nail or screw into the top of post and run a string pulled tight between them and make sure it's level from the top of 1 post to the next. Total cost? 2 reusable screws and a piece of string.
I never understand why people spend money on something you can do just as well with a piece of string. Plumb lines for example. Get a laser level and mark the position and ensure that....
Hang a plumb line and mark the top and bottom. Once it stops moving, gravity will ensure it's vertically level.
I like the idea of those hangers, I think it would make for a much cleaner appearance from the back side.
all they do is create water traps that rot your timber faster at the attachment points
At least the cross-brace in the gate was mounted to be taking compression load, not pulling load as I have seen in some cases.
The joist hangers make piece replacement of the rail easier...
so do you have a video that shows a correct way to build a gate?
I am just a DIY'er. But IMO ... I see the following:
1. 2 hinges not enough. Use at least 3, and check the load rating of the hinges;
2. I would use PT wood or cedar and stain, and use "cut and seal" at all cuts;
3. I would use 6x6 for posts;
4. Make sure screws are properly sized - most hinge kits have crappy screws - not long enough;
5. He attached one end of the fence to an old post that looks wobbly - that post should be replaced;
5b. I agree with you - plumb those posts from the start using braces and keep checking throughout;
6. He is using a "compression brace" on the gate its oriented correctly - but orientation should be highlighted, and he really does not need that hardware at the corners if he were to construct it correctly;
7. He should really grade the ground underneath the gate to ensure year round clearance when using;
8. It looks like he completely filled the post hole with quickcrete before adding water .... it should be noted that he should just fill to a couple inches below grade - then fill with water so it meets ground surface and agitate;
5:50 yeah i dont even use screws to build my fence, eleminates another point of faliure from hardware.
My grampa was a carpenter from the 1940s to the 1970s.
He would use use plywood gussets on a gate but he wouldn’t have used them as the primary method of framing the gate
"It's not perfect, but..." and that's where you stop, and fix it. Don't do it fast, take your time and do it right.
Absolutely agreed
You are a very nice guy. That fence was trash. That guy doesn’t need to be directing anyone on how to build anything out of wood. Maybe Lego’s
I think that if my final words where, "it's not perfect, but it ended up alright..." I would not post the video. I do appreciate seeing the mistakes though, it is food for thought. Too bad the video on how to do something actually turned into a video on not how not to do something. I appreciate you Joe, this was a great video, and I appreciate the other guy for his video as well, he did illustrate some techniques, now it's about refining them.
Looked more like the camera is giving a fisheye look, might account for the bow in the top piece. Give the outward bowing of the far right post. I know I've seen some footage people take with terrible fisheye lens effect and straight boards across saw horses look like they bend over 45 degrees. It did appear like there were other issues, just referring to the visual in the beginning.
Gate wheel is the key!
he did mention he toe nailed 3" screws into the gate main square wood. Not sure from which one to which part of the other, but it would have helped as well... or just buy the gate kit from home depot that helps home diy folks do it. bit extra $ for the kit but it works
Joe I made a gate. Not finished yet. Instead of a cross brace. I used 4 heavy duty shelf brackets. One on each corner. These braces have the 45 degree support on them. Thoughts?
I did something similar with my porch gate. Its about 3ft by 3ft. Its been on for over a year and there is zero sag so far. I would imagine with larger gates it might become a problem, but I like the idea of two points taking the load.
I guess it would be helpful if you explained how a gate is supposed to be braced. The way he did it seems to me like it would work well to me. But I am also a DIY. I have seen a lot of gates built by contractors that sagged because they were assembled with nails and some part of the gate ends up pulling the nail directly out. At least with metal straps holding pieces of wood together, the nails (or screws) are not being pulled directly out.
Having a metal plate attaching the two members doesn't really do anything beyond what just screwing them together directly would do. Basically, the steel plate 100% ensures that the heads of those screws aren't going to be pulled apart from each other under normal conditions. BUT, it does nothing to prevent the ends of the screws from being pulled through the wood.
As you said, one big cause of sagging gates is that the fasteners fail when trying to transfer the load from the unsupported end through the other members to the hinge post. There will just be too much load for a nail or a screw to hold indefinitely and it will pull through the wood. Often you will find that the fasteners have bent over time.
Screwing the boards together through a metal plate doesn't really prevent or help with that type of failure. Of course the load is not high enough to break the steel plate, so that plate is going to hold the heads of those screws and its going to stop those screw heads from moving apart from each other. But the wood is the same; whether you screw through it directly or have a steel plate between your screws, the amount of 'grip' that the wood has on the fastener is the same because you haven't done anything to strengthen the fibers inside the wood. So if you were worried that over time the wood will expand, contract, twist, etc., that is still going to happen; the steel plate doesn't change the cycle of wood gaining and losing moisture. And when it does happen, that wood is going to push and pull on the fastener with basically exactly the same force as it would have without the steel plate. And if the wood isn't strong enough to hold onto the end of that nail or screw, well it still isn't strong enough after you put a steel plate on the outside. Over time, it will pull through just the same, only difference being there's a nice steel plate over by the head.
A gate is the only moving part on a fence so ya of course its the #1 for issues.
Agreed!
Is that joist hanger ungalvanized and the post pressure treated?
We terminate panels to the house. I hear what your saying about terminating a fence panel to the house. The reason we do this is because most houses have a foundation/footing drain that won't allow a post to be installed next to the house. How would you suggest terminating the fence in this situation?
The only other option I can think of is a cantilever end, but I am not a professional by any means.
i think if you don't have a metal top jig use string -- or chalk a line on your warpy board and follow the chalk line
Is a cool fence for a beginner not aceptable for contractors or professional companies
DIY guy is just showing that everybody is a fence expert
Would you mind walking me through what I should’ve and shouldn’t do with building a new fence 6’ tall wood panel and installing a gate where there in dirt on one side and brick on another? Old fence is predated to early 1900
Why do the two horizontal rails need to be the longer side of the square that make up the fence support as opposed to the upright rails? I saw that my neighbors did this as well and just followed suit but wasn't quite sure why I only see it that way. Thanks.
I use two by fours on the top and bottom and diagonal and don't use any on the sides the fence boards themselves are my sides. The lighter you can make your gate the longer it'll be before it sags. Also make sure you screw the pickets into the diagonal also this keeps it from pulling apart. This Z type gate is also easy to trim when it does begin to sag.
Seems like doing it this way would allow the swinging side of the gate to be kind of floppy, especially if your latch was at the top rail.
highly skeptical of the "dryset" concrete. exposing all the dry aggregates to water starts the chemical reaction that results in bond formation. if the water & aggregates aren't thoroughly mixed, the fewer/weaker bonds form. wouldn't be surprised if the footing crumbles in a few years. what's your professional opinion of "dryset"?
I certainly understand where you’re coming from, but I’ve also seen real-world demonstrations and the dry-set posts looked almost identical to the wet-set posts. Even down to the core
His concrete is holding a post in place, not supporting a skyscraper; hence no rebar either.
Why don't you lot over the pond use 1.8 closeboard, mortice posts, shaped arris rails, set 1650 feathers to top of posts ,gravelboards underneath, messing about with a string line on the top of fence is a slow way of doing it
Good lord, Joe is being VERY generous with this one. This guy is a HACK.
I appreciate the feedback!
Instead of a jig could you run a string line at height? What's the problem with that?
Tweren’t bad. I always enjoy watching a review.
Thanks Roger!
actually simpson strong tie makes these and markets them as wood fence rail hangers
what makes a gate sag ? I built a gate frame just like the one the fence installers installed on the original gate and it still sags. Did the original fence installer put the frame up backwards. I saw a video by King's fine woodworking where the diagonal cross 2x4 was installed with the low side next to the hinges and the top side next to the latch side of the gate? Is this how you would do it? Could you do a half lap and do two cross diaganol boards for extra strength? Again this would add more weight to the gate. Also, I can't get a commercial lawn mower in my backyard. What is the widest gate you can make using 2x4 frames or any frame?
Id probably put the latch on the inside part of the yard
Who do u think u r sitting there and judging other peoples builds and telling everyone if it’s being done right or wrong huh ?? lol. Just kidding. I couldnt resist. Definitely entertaining, watching you- watching videos!
😂 thanks for watching and weighing in!
What is the widest that I can do for the wooden gate? would 50 inches too wide? with the technique of half lap joint for the gate frame (excuse for the term. I might get it wrong) with a diagonal up from hinge side.
Great stuff!!
That 2x4 bow might be a fish eye lense type thing from 0.5 setting on his phone?