Best ad for a 2 screws and a wire I've ever seen. Joking aside, I really appreciated how well this was presented. All ads should genuinely teach something like this one did. I'm not sure why there is concern about going greater than 45 degrees, sure it is not 'as strong' but it is more than strong enough, and still the right direction. Another trick to point out, you can build the frame for a gate, wrap a single wire all the way around it and tighten just that, and then throw your diagonal compression bar in. FAST, SIMPLE, CHEAP and will last forever.
I don't have a gate. Great video. Good personal dynamics, well structured video, no useless info, explanations of why the physics matter, and solutions for different scenarios. 10/10
Vertical strength of brace is superior in an angle below 45 degrees. No stress on the fasteners. Because the fasteners are not needed. But over 45 degrees, the arm is distended, the brace wants to rock down, it's up to the fasteners to prevent a single degree of sag. At this point shear strength of wood and fasteners come into play. Stuff starts to move.
To be clear. This only applies to wood gates. Steel gates work vastly better under tension. As well as aluminum. I have built 60 or 70 as wide as 26 foot free span.
@hrmIwonder Think about a bicycle spoke. The wood method works because wood sucks at holding a fastener under tension for long term. Steel on the other hand does not care. When a fat kid swings on a steel gate. If it's compression bracing the brace needs to be strong enough to hold a compressed load of a fat kid a 20 feet. It takes a 2.5 to 3 inch sch40 pipe minimum. If under tention. A 1 inch pipe or even 1/4x1 flat stock is way more than strong enough to hold thay fat kid at 20 feet. I have built a LOT of steel and aluminum gates.
@tireballastserviceofflorid7771 thanks! That makes sense. You could suspend a 10lbs weight from a wire but it wouldn't support the weight under compression. I hadn't looked at it that way. Thanks again!
And that’s why almost all of our modern bridges are suspension bridges (under tension) vs compression arch bridges. Loved the fat kid example. Works pretty good in my imagination center of the brain.
FYI...and something you and readers may enjoy knowing (Timberwright here...so all wood joinery not "fasteners" or hardware in my work most often) the one that works in "compression" is called and "elbow brace" and the example working in tension is a "knee brace."..."X" bracing is just silly and adds unessary weight. These tradition "all wood joinery" doors, gates and stock gates are often built with green wood which is an added challenge in skill and understanding. Great video demonstration!!!
My mom had gate that was about 15 years old and sagging. She had a handyman install one of those anti sag cables. It worked for about a year. So I bought about $20 of galvanized nuts,bolts and washers and replaced all the screws and nails one at at time. Each fence board had 3 bolts nuts and 6 washers. That gate was so strong you could stand on it. That was 20 years ago. It was still just as strong and sturdy 20 years later and never sagged again. It go another 20 years easily but my mom sold the house and the new owners tore down the whole fence to add a second garage. Nails and screws lost their grip and become lose as wood ages and some decay sets in around the holes nails and screws make. A bolt going all the way through the bracing and fence boards with washers on each side sandwitches everything together. Washers increase the surface area so much that even if the hole gets bigger from rot it will still hold the pieces together. If you ever have to replace the wood just reuse the nuts, bolts and washers.
This is an excellent summary of the RIGHT way (bolts with washers) to make connections in wood. A wood gate with the diagonal in tension can work well if the end connections are bolted.
Wood does swell and contract on endless cycles. No matter what kind of cable or fasteners one uses, it will require maintaining. While some work better than others and some types of wood perform better, There is no forever maintenance free fastener for the life of an outdoor wood structure.
Coach bolt, washer and nut. The washer distributed the pressure from the nut evenly reducing the chance of damage from the corners of the nut potentially creating splits. The longevity of your fix primarily comes to how over engineered it was. I do similar, it's not a criticism. Typically it's preferred to have the structure supporting itself and the fasteners... fastening. Lol. You can be endlessly needing to tighten nuts and bolts when they are supporting the structures they are intended to be fastening.
There must be a lot of people out there bracing gates. Over a million views in 6 days? Thanks, guys, we'll be seeing straight and well-braced gates everywhere now :) You've got to love engineering, you picked up a new subscriber. :)
Nope, I've already watched every other video and TH-cam is scraping the bottom of the barrel for recommendations. Next, I can learn how to throw a punch in a street fight, or how to stop smoke from a fire pit, or how you unlock a spiritual awakening... All stuff that I also have no interest in or use for. But I will watch them all, like and comment too.
I would add this was an excellent video in general. No obnoxious background music, no (long) boring intro with fireworks, no silly flashing images in background, the humor was subtle and entertaining. I urge all video creators to strive for this. (P.S. I don't even have a gate.)
@@terry_willis You must be an older person, Nothing wrong with that. But, there is nothing wrong with adding a little, music, flare, and comedy to content in this day and age. I enjoy it as long as it's not a cut every 2 seconds, lol.
It’s nice to see you explain the right way to build fences!! Not the usual on TH-cam!! I WORKED for NW fence in Spokane Valley /Idaho fence in Post Falls. Not an easy job NWF was 6days a week 10 hours a day 30 years ago work for the railroad these days…run my train past 5 fences I built that are still standing and makes me appreciate my engineer job more every time I pass them! Keep up the good work!
@LTVoyager is right: nothing magical about 45 degrees. It’s just that the tension or compression gets more extreme as the diagonal element gets closer to horizontal. Another point: the top horizontal member is in tension either way. Its force is carried by fasteners either way. So while having the diagonal member in compression is better, the other forces need to be considered as well. Great video!
It also depends on the direction of the wood used to build the gate. With horizontal installed ‘planks’, your pressure-solution works great. With vertical installed planks, the pressure solution will slowly push the vertical planks go wider and wider until the gate wont fit anymore
Nothing magical about 45°. Moving the brace from 55° from vertical to 45° adds extra leverage bearing on the brace erasing any advantage. This calculation needs to be done with vectors, not intuition.
It's a magical number in the way computer programmers use the term: It's unexplained, it's not necessary to understand how it's found, but if you change the value things go wrong. PI = 3.1415926 is an example. Here it's more "rule of thumb" than real magical number but OK.
@@SenselessUsername The point being made is that it's a clumsy rule that only sometimes manages to be helpful by accident, and can equally as often do nothing to improve the gate. A much better rule of thumb would be "If your gate is more than twice as wide as it is tall, consider splitting the braces into two sections." That rule would happen to kick in once the angle is around 65 degrees, which is about where you would actually start seeing some slight benefits to the different construction.
Here because of the algorithm. I have no intention of needing to fix a gate or anything to do with fences or gates, but these guys are awesome, and I love the video. The algorithm works in mysterious ways.
build a steel gate the opposite to a wood one? thats nonsense, if you makf the steel gate out of steel with the same profile as the wood used, then the steel gate will react to forces applied to it, in exactlly the same manner as the wood one, the only difference being the steel gate will withstand load forces many times higher than the wood one, if you want to see where the loads are appied to a gate, just have a look at a shelf bracket, the direction of loads on a shelf bracket are exactly the same as those acting on a gate, theres a reason why shelf brackets are never fitted upside down…and they are normally made from steel,
@robertmagnusjamieson1759 that would assume you used the same coss section of steel as wood, but typically a steel gate would be made of slimmer sections than a timber one due to steel being harder and denser than wood. Slim sections are more susceptible to buckling than thick sections of equal tensile strength, which is why we use them in tension not compression. You can pull a truck with a wire hawser, but you can't push it.
Your example with your arm is incorrect. If that gate on the left were just as long but taller, the brace would work fine. The reason the brace starts to fail at less than 45 degrees is that it approaches parallel to the horizontal members of the gate and starts to lose the advantage of a triangle. As the angel of the brace gets shallower, a given amount of compression of the brace translates into a larger vertical movement of the gate.
Well, your explanation may be understood by some of us, I’m guessing that the visual he showed about which direction to put the piece of wood as far more useful to 90% of the viewers 😂
Built gates for 35 years. Ditch the cedar or redwood as those wood species are too soft to serve as structural support. For a personnel gate weld 1" square aluminum tubing into a rectangle with one cross brace. Weld on a piece of flat plate to secure a latch. Then attach your fence boards directly to the aluminum with short deck screws. There, the gate will never rot, twist or sag. For driveway gates use 1 1/2 or 2" tubing and a little trigonometry for additional bracing. In and around Pasadena CA you can find over 200 of these gates which I built.
Do you happen to have any quick pictures of your driveway gates? Been thinking on framing up my own for a 20' split swing config but don't quite know best way to mount hinge, wheels, etc. Also do you use stainless deck screws through boards? Appreciate any advice! Thanks for sharing
@@VariHapiiI hope he’s not using stainless screws with aluminum posts, I’d rather have zinc screws rot off than rot my posts. Aluminum when mixed with steel with be a mess without an anode.
A tension brace of cable on threaded rod will cause the gate to twist or warp, unless it is dead center in the gate. Can’t be done with a face mounted brace kit.
Probably yes but it depends. A brace pointing downwards towards the wheel will direct more of the load to the wheel. Usually you want that since it means less on the rest of the structure. But then the question is, how much load can the wheel handle?
Mate mind boggling video, yam here from NZ (an entry level DIYer), I'm looking at installing smart screen to my pergola and a hidden door accessible from outside and it straightaway solved my doubt on the bracing. I still have couple of doubts about the railings (like half lap joint where horizontal panel if outside or Inside, I'm sure I will find solution in your other videos... Thanks for making this one.. Cheers
There is no magic about 45deg. Sure It is a good rule of thumb; the shallower the angle the more weight is on compression and the more it pushes the end out proportionally to the amount it supports then end in the upward angle, but 46 deg is not all of a sudden going to break or last half as long. Same applies to tension cables. If you had a gate 3x the height a tension cable and its mounting will need to be much stronger than for a square. But a 5' wide gate that is 4' high would not really be a problem, either for compression or tension. Other than the critical 45deg, I think the video was excellent and good for someone trying to keep in their dogs.
Thank you soooo much for this info!!! This really breaks down the concept/steps needed, to fix an existing saggy gate without replacing it! So much easier to understand than some of the longer more complex videos!
I’m currently working on a timber framed bridge design project for my school. It’s more of a conceptual drafting project than anything else because we’re not focused on the physics side of things just the hand drafting aspect, but this explains so much about historic wooden bridge designs it’s hilarious to think I had this element explained so well in a recommended video about fence integrity.
I put the bottom of the diagonal on the hinged stile not the rail. That way the stile-rail joint has no added forces. Also, the brace doesn’t need to span the diagonal. On a gate taller than it is wide a 45 degree brace to the hinge leg is sufficient and allows a horizontal rail in the middle as an attachment point to help keep vertical facing flat.
Mostly good info, but your two diagonal design for the long gate has that center post in tension so it relies on the fasteners to connect it to the frame or the braces, but you made it seem like it'd work also without relying on fasteners.
yes and the brace in tension is also trying to break the fasteners holding the outside vertical board in place and the one holding the bottom horizontial board by the hinge the premise of this video is wrong
Awesome video so what's the best way to frame were the it does not have worping on the latch side aways worp in or out like gates trying to twist. Fence company on there 3rd gate at my house keeps worping really bad
I admit I didn't watch the whole video, but for my wooden gates, I installed two diagonal threaded rods with a turn buckle in the middle, and eye hooks at each end, so I can adjust the gate at any time it gets out of alignment at the latch. It works great and won't wear out. Rust protection is required, but since you rarely need to adjust it after it is set up correctly, I just painted the threaded rods and turn buckle to match the wooden gate. You can always touch up the paint if it gets scuffed off during any of your adjustments. For this application, the brace is installed in tension, like the position of the wood brace when he first tried it.
@@jimbosander lots of hardware stores have turn buckle kits that come with a left hand threaded eye hook on one end and a right hand threaded eye hook on the other side, so all I did was replace the right hand threaded eye hook with a standard threaded rod of the same diameter and thread pitch. I then drilled a hole in the gate at the upper corner of the hinge side at the correct angle, and slipped the rod through the hole and put a nut on the end of it. I then attached the turn buckle to the other opposite corner with a J hook screw into the gate, so I could measure where to cut the threaded rod. I think you can figure out the rest.
@@traveling.down.the.road56 ah, you connected the left handed to the frame, makes sense. I'd visualized the tb in the middle of two asymetric rods :) Thanks.
I built gates in steel tube and put the braces the other way. Not intentionally but just was not thinking at the time. They look great and don't sag in the least and you'd really have to stop and look and think for quite a time to see the mistake. In timber they'd have sagged to the ground by now. Thank God for steel and for arc welders is all I can say.
I've built gates now for over 25 years knowing the right place to put the brace, and the once all of the fasteners are in place it's solid. As long as the post or whatever the hinges are attached to is solid... I've also adapted the brace laying flat ,so the fence boards have 3 1/2 " of area to fasten to and it's a lot less chance of flexing. I also cut both ends of the brace into a point so it rides both side and top and bottom of gate. Not sure if this is followable but I thought I'd give it a shot. I also have never had any issues with sag when building six by six foot gates ,and just having the one brace corner to corner. Yet! But I'll keep that anti sag cable in mind thanks. Usually just have a wheel on the bottom 😏
More of a question for you experts. I have a 13' wide opening that I want to install a sliding wooden gate. Frame for gate will be wood with cedar pickets. Plan on putting 1-5/8" top rail on 4x4 posts with rollers that I assume would be considered the hinge side. How should I install diagonal bracing? Height of gate frame will be 5'-5". Since it is wood should I put a vertical 2x4 every 5' and run brace diagonal from top to bottom (hinge side)?
@SWiFence I second that opinion. No music. No title waste of time Don't tell me why I'm here I know why. Straight to the point... particularly good because now I understand the difference between tension and compression... pretty interesting...
I love the presentation and I think your model is cool, but is the model a fair representation of a picket fence gate construction? I may attempt to repair the double-wide swing gate. We paid three different contractors to rebuild the picket fence on the three sides our property over the course of two years [2020 to 2022]. Each contractor's crews had different skill levels; however, it seems that no one can build a gate that is problem-free. I am not a carpenter, I am not a mechanic, I am not a handyman and I am not a video-editor, but I am a beginner DIY Guy. I may attempt to repair the double-wide swing gate - the crew used the Adjust-A-Gate 1-1/2-in Steel-Painted Gate Kit - the crew either threw out the turnbuckle and cable kit along with the instructions [I retrieved the instructions, but never found the turnbuckle and cable]: 3 weeks ago they returned to replace the cedar siding with James Hardy cement-fiber siding. I informed them about the gate problems, so they purchased turnbuckle kits and installed them, but I think one of the kits was installed incorrectly thus the one gate was pulled downward to the ground by the cable and the other gate was pulled upward by the other cable. They stopped by again today to attempt to fix the gate - they failed and threw in the towel. They proposed to replace the double-wide gate with single-entry gate. The single-entry gate has to be wide enough for our lawn tractor. I just wish I could get the double-wide gate repaired correctly.
Why not attach the brace to the bottom of the vertical (the one that is hinged to swing from the post) and the top horizontal rail, at or near the junction with the second vertical?
The two-brace method on the wider gate puts the center vertical member in tension. The compression of the diagonals tries to bend the rails apart and transmit all their tension into the fasteners connecting the center upright to rails.
Seems like making a V from the boards both pushing against a center would make the most sense. The inside board wouldn't have much tension on it, but would be keeping the center board straight.
@@JLars A second one from top of hinge side to lower center wouldn't help for the same reason as the first example on the shorter gate. As the gate begins to sag, the second brace would just be dragged away from the center board, leaving no support for it or the angled brace. Some other sort of brace to support the center board and/or cables crossing each angled brace for support could work. I've not tried it, so I'm not sure.
Well... turns out I built my gate wrong, and the tension cable I used warped it more than it prevented it from sagging. Five years later, I watched your video, flipped the brace, removed the cable, and everything's good now. Thank you!!!
Did you take your gate doors off to do all that? Our fence (installed by a fencing company). Installed our doors incorrectly. 😢 after doing research I have realized this. Our boards running diagonally were put on the wrong way. So I need to take them off, flip them then add a tension brace. I’m very pregnant and would need assistance in taking the doors off. So if it’s necessary I’ll take them off but if it’s not I’d rather leave them on. 😂
What about using both styles? A beam to take the compression and back it up with a wire taking on tension? By necessity the wire would have to pass through the compression brace (which is, itself, reinforced at that point) or to one side or the other of it (or both) which I imagine would impart wear where the two cross if they're in contact.
Everything was straightforward until the 45⁰ subject. If your gate is wider than it is tall then the angle of the brace will be less than 45⁰. No problem. It still works.
Thanks for this really clear and instructive video ! I have one doubt : if you tense a wire only on one side of the fence wouldn't it curve the fence to that side ? Should it have one wire on esch side ?
Yes, if you're really going to crank down on it. Our anti-sag kits are meant to prevent sag in an already-constructed gate. If you are only using wire in tension for support, you're correct--you'll need it on both sides.
Its a question as to which hinge is taking the most load, as well as which fasteners. With the first option on the small gate most of the load is on the lower hinge and on the top outer fasteners. With the second option the load is on the top hinge and on the lower outer hardware.
I like that you are trying to understand the forces applied. It is a cantilever upon a post into a footing with an unsupported top of post. What you have is called a pin joint around the perimeter or frame. This is a good method to use, it allows freedom of rotation (moment) in the assy. The supports that you show have no pin joint connections. This shows nothing structural, it is simply a gravity prop and means nothing, If you pinned the joints they would appear the same. Try a 6'x 20' swing gate, It will look a bit different in actual forces applied but is the same.
Would it not be better to have the outer angled brace pointing towards the middle too? That vertical has one brace pushing the top one way and the bottom the other. Relying on fixings to hold it in place
Can someone explain to me why the cross brace, when under compression, attaches to the bottom of the gate instead of the side where the hinge is? For example, at 0:50 he places the cross piece in as an example. It runs from the top frame (top right) to the bottom frame (bottom left). But wouldn't it be even stronger if it ran from top frame (top right) to bottom of the side frame (bottom *side* left)? Isn't it just putting more force on the joint the way he has it set up? Wouldn't pushing against the side of the gate be stronger?
Yep that may be slightly better because the force is closer to the pivot. But also, wood is compressible and you don’t want a sharp point, and the gain is minimal for a real gate
Tension is transferred to the horizontal piece. Always areas of tension and compression. Tension that is perpendicular would be preferable to any other angle though… particularly with a welded metal gate.
Basically, build your gate according to the load. Much like a house, you want to re-direct the weight to the stable element. In this case, the post. How you transfer load to that point, is more important. So, learn how to build a bridge, and you can build a gate.
As somebody who does extensive rigging training, angles are very near and dear to me. It is my favorite portion to teach because people do not understand how angles/degrees can add so much more tension.
Good video.What is the correct way if the 2x4's are in a flat square frame and the balusters in the gate are vertical 2x4's what's the best way to give it support?
Maybe the gate was built over a hundred years ago as the ones on my ranch are from the 1810s and rebuilt in the 1890s. I think my ancestors were drinking lots of moonshine when building gates. We have trapezoid and windmill tensioners on our gates. They look weird and random but lasted the test of time.
@@alwil1563 Plausible, but I've always taken the time to explain it clearly. And not for nothing but... just cause you have one, doesn't mean you need to act like one!
This only applies if the wood is captured within the frame. If you just screw a piece onto the face of the frame it won't matter because the screws are holding it either way. If you use a cable, make sure to use a turnbuckle so you can adjust the leveling/height easily.
is that second brace really necessary? you could have the brace hit the top bar in the middle , like a gallows , and everything would stay square woudnt it ?
If its a single door gate less than 4" wide....no braces or vertical frame work is needed. Put large Tee hinges directly on the horizontal members of the gate, the fence boards are the verticals. I leaned this trick from an old timer over 40 years ago, and it still works.
We're basically talking about truss design here. A properly designed truss can be attached with a single connection point at each intersection (which would allow it to rotate) and the triangle prevent any movement. With your example of the anti-sag wire, the gate could still fold up if it was lifted on the free end. On the other hand, if you installed an additional anti-sag kit across the other direction (thus making an "X" design), then all the corners would be in tension and it would not fold up when lifted. Sometimes though, you just need to put a wheel on the gate so that it can roll across the ground instead of only being supported on one end. Maybe you don't want to put that much weight hanging out on the post that you had to use for the gate... Maybe the angle of the terrain is such that you can't position the hinges so that the gate will follow the slope of the ground through its entire opening arch... For example, I have a 10 ft x 3 ft gate in the breezeway between my garage and house that I used this method on... The posts were already in the concrete slab of the driveway / patio and seemed fairly sturdy, but I wasn't sure if it would handle that much of a load on it, plus I wanted the gate to be able to swing over 180 degrees and the slope of the driveway was different than the slope of the patio... No matter where I placed the hinges, the end of the gate would either be dragging or somewhat high in the air depending upon which way I opened the gate... So, I just made some elongated loops from steel rod so that the hinge pins could "float" and installed a wheel on the end of the fence... Putting a cross-brace on the fence (even a wire in tension) was not an option because of the damn HOA Nazis that we have here... They will actually trespass on your property looking for violations that are not visible from the street... I've had to impress upon them that trespassing on someone's property is not particularly survival-oriented behavior (i.e. is not conducive to a long life) here in Texas...
If my wood gate is sagging do I have to take the hinges off first and then put a wood compression brace on or just place a piece a wood under it and then put the brace in
Nice demonstration. However in a true fence the horizontal crossbeams will be secured by a vertical post at either side, so the diagonal support beam can actually go either way
I knew about the proper direction of a compression brace in a gate, but the knowledge nugget about it having to be less than 45° I did not know. In the near future I will be fencing my backyard and there will be a rugged gate big enough to get the mower into the back yard and this will come in handy. You may mention that there are crazy rugged, wide continuous hinges (aka piano hinges) available that would be perfect for heavy wood gates that will spread the load of the gate over nearly the entire height of the attachment post(s) and alignment is a breeze.
Well, actually... even in the second version, it all relies on the fasteners, just other ones! You are still tensioning the top hinge side fasteners of the frame, instead of the brace' ones.
The left hand gate still doesn't work. The angle brace closest to post puts horizontal load on top joint of center vertical member causing joint to fail. Then bottom joint fails and gate fails.
Does the 45 degree rule apply to the tension cable method? The compression rule makes sense because it adds tension stress to the top plank and shear force to the outside top corner placing all the stress on the fasteners. With a tension cable though I can’t think of a way that the angle can come into play. Seems that no matter the angle the force remains to be compression on the bottom plank. Is this right?
Hey! Can you knuckleheads make a video about repairing and rejuvenating a chain link fence that surrounds a typical home? That is another project for me after i use two of your kits to unsag the doors to my woodshop. It is not a "gate" but I assume they will work just fine nevertheless.
@swiFence What about preventing a gate from bowing. I build all my gates using the compression brace, however I find the gates begin to twist or bow from the bottom and the top. Meaning the top of the gate will pull back and the bottom of the gate will push forward or just the opposite. Any recommendations to prevent this from happening?
It seems clear that the single brace on the long gate is more effective than the heavier and more complex version with three braces/boards. The single board not only holds the gate higher in the video, while the triple brace sags dramatically; but it also would likely hold more weight placed atop if easily tested. The additional braces add almost nothing but extra weight and waste. The one brace that is working is now put at a severe mechanical disadvantage due to the length of the gate extending as a lever beyond it. Braces should go corner to corner for maximum strength, as you first instructed, with few justifiable exceptions.
Or you can run your post that the gate is attached to 3' higher and attached you cable to the top down to the end of the gate with a turnbuckle so it can be adjusted when needed.
So, if your angle is less than 45°, can you STILL double up by adding 2 compression braces (with the vertical brace as well obviously)? ie. Is the added weight of the extra brace worth it, or are there diminishing returns if your single compression brace is already less than 45°?
So the brace goes from the bottom of the hinge side to the top of the swing side? I have two gates on a back driveway. We have tension lines on both. The gates aren't technically sagging as much as they've been push out by wind. The gates are five feet each...how should I get it back to center?
You guys didn't mention that a turnbuckle on the tension wire enables you to adjust the gate:: raise it or lower it so that the latche parts line up. Also, as the seasons change the gate can be adjusted at any time, with no need to fetch any tools.
Recent redo of 2 wooden gates (swinging, 110 inches total width, 55 each) and adjoining 8 foot section on each side, shadow style design. I welded two gate frames made of galvanized 1.5 steel square tubing, hung the gates on 6x6 posts with post master fence post supporting the adjoining sections. Recently withstood 100 + mph wind gusts. The older sections did not fair so well. 😢 Big believer in post master posts and steel gate frames. Enjoyed the video.
What is the rule for post depth? For example; if your gate is (X) long and (X) height, your post should be (X) height and installed (X) depth? Also, if you're using wood for the post, what is the best wood and how should the post be installed into the ground, for example, in concrete or another type of material? Should there be the use of a barrier sheet as well? Thank you in advance.
1/3 in the ground. Depending on your soil may need more depth. Loaded question because so many things go into the answer. Soil type, weight of the gate, max swing of the gate, environment (rain, snow, heat). If you want a better answer that applies to you please provide more details.
Best ad for a 2 screws and a wire I've ever seen.
Joking aside, I really appreciated how well this was presented. All ads should genuinely teach something like this one did.
I'm not sure why there is concern about going greater than 45 degrees, sure it is not 'as strong' but it is more than strong enough, and still the right direction.
Another trick to point out, you can build the frame for a gate, wrap a single wire all the way around it and tighten just that, and then throw your diagonal compression bar in.
FAST, SIMPLE, CHEAP and will last forever.
Isn’t “2 girls and a cup” more entertaining?? 😂
@@Torrquecan’t get them to hold my gate up, they keep dropping the cup
I don't have a gate. Great video. Good personal dynamics, well structured video, no useless info, explanations of why the physics matter, and solutions for different scenarios. 10/10
Retired structural engineer here. There is nothing magical about 45 degrees and the physics doesn’t change with a bigger angle.
Agree! The material used and how much load it can carry determine the optimal angle .. 45 is arbitrary with out context.
Yup, I've built plenty of long gates and they hold up just fine.
Vertical strength of brace is superior in an angle below 45 degrees. No stress on the fasteners. Because the fasteners are not needed. But over 45 degrees, the arm is distended, the brace wants to rock down, it's up to the fasteners to prevent a single degree of sag. At this point shear strength of wood and fasteners come into play. Stuff starts to move.
@@trehobbs6568As OP said, nothing magical about 45. 10 is better than 25 is better than 45 is better than 60 is better than 85.
Finally a decent answer. 45 will depend on width of gate and if you can fit 45 into this length. They have no idea.
To be clear. This only applies to wood gates. Steel gates work vastly better under tension. As well as aluminum. I have built 60 or 70 as wide as 26 foot free span.
Interesting. Why is that?
@hrmIwonder Think about a bicycle spoke. The wood method works because wood sucks at holding a fastener under tension for long term. Steel on the other hand does not care. When a fat kid swings on a steel gate. If it's compression bracing the brace needs to be strong enough to hold a compressed load of a fat kid a 20 feet. It takes a 2.5 to 3 inch sch40 pipe minimum. If under tention. A 1 inch pipe or even 1/4x1 flat stock is way more than strong enough to hold thay fat kid at 20 feet. I have built a LOT of steel and aluminum gates.
@tireballastserviceofflorid7771 thanks! That makes sense. You could suspend a 10lbs weight from a wire but it wouldn't support the weight under compression. I hadn't looked at it that way. Thanks again!
@@hrmIwonder Exactly.
And that’s why almost all of our modern bridges are suspension bridges (under tension) vs compression arch bridges. Loved the fat kid example. Works pretty good in my imagination center of the brain.
Y'all crammed a ton of jokes AND good information into just a few minutes. Love the quick, no-fluff editing.
FYI...and something you and readers may enjoy knowing (Timberwright here...so all wood joinery not "fasteners" or hardware in my work most often) the one that works in "compression" is called and "elbow brace" and the example working in tension is a "knee brace."..."X" bracing is just silly and adds unessary weight. These tradition "all wood joinery" doors, gates and stock gates are often built with green wood which is an added challenge in skill and understanding. Great video demonstration!!!
My mom had gate that was about 15 years old and sagging. She had a handyman install one of those anti sag cables. It worked for about a year. So I bought about $20 of galvanized nuts,bolts and washers and replaced all the screws and nails one at at time. Each fence board had 3 bolts nuts and 6 washers. That gate was so strong you could stand on it. That was 20 years ago. It was still just as strong and sturdy 20 years later and never sagged again. It go another 20 years easily but my mom sold the house and the new owners tore down the whole fence to add a second garage. Nails and screws lost their grip and become lose as wood ages and some decay sets in around the holes nails and screws make. A bolt going all the way through the bracing and fence boards with washers on each side sandwitches everything together. Washers increase the surface area so much that even if the hole gets bigger from rot it will still hold the pieces together. If you ever have to replace the wood just reuse the nuts, bolts and washers.
This is an excellent summary of the RIGHT way (bolts with washers) to make connections in wood. A wood gate with the diagonal in tension can work well if the end connections are bolted.
Wood does swell and contract on endless cycles. No matter what kind of cable or fasteners one uses, it will require maintaining. While some work better than others and some types of wood perform better, There is no forever maintenance free fastener for the life of an outdoor wood structure.
Coach bolt, washer and nut. The washer distributed the pressure from the nut evenly reducing the chance of damage from the corners of the nut potentially creating splits. The longevity of your fix primarily comes to how over engineered it was. I do similar, it's not a criticism. Typically it's preferred to have the structure supporting itself and the fasteners... fastening. Lol. You can be endlessly needing to tighten nuts and bolts when they are supporting the structures they are intended to be fastening.
So many builder simple don't get this. A large percentage of gates we see here are wrong
@@rchurch2769 believe it or not, even steel swells and contracts.
There must be a lot of people out there bracing gates. Over a million views in 6 days? Thanks, guys, we'll be seeing straight and well-braced gates everywhere now :) You've got to love engineering, you picked up a new subscriber. :)
I'm not bracing gates, but I find engeneering interesting as a hobby
Nope, I've already watched every other video and TH-cam is scraping the bottom of the barrel for recommendations. Next, I can learn how to throw a punch in a street fight, or how to stop smoke from a fire pit, or how you unlock a spiritual awakening... All stuff that I also have no interest in or use for. But I will watch them all, like and comment too.
This is the simplest yet most effective video on gates. Most people need a visual and this was perfect for that
I would add this was an excellent video in general. No obnoxious background music, no (long) boring intro with fireworks, no silly flashing images in background, the humor was subtle and entertaining. I urge all video creators to strive for this. (P.S. I don't even have a gate.)
Except it’s wrong.
@@blacksquirrel4008they got the long gate wrong 😂
@@terry_willis You must be an older person, Nothing wrong with that. But, there is nothing wrong with adding a little, music, flare, and comedy to content in this day and age. I enjoy it as long as it's not a cut every 2 seconds, lol.
@@jonwelch564 Explain how it is wrong? Back up your claim?
So glad I saw this before replacing my gate (that I braced wrong) this spring. Thanks.
This one was made for you
Very clear video. Only thing would be to switch your use of “less than” and “greater than” 45 degrees.
Yes they were measuring from the vertices not the horizontal.
Tension and compression. In the final position as described the wood is under compression and the wire under tension. Thanks for sharing.
It’s nice to see you explain the right way to build fences!! Not the usual on TH-cam!!
I WORKED for NW fence in Spokane Valley /Idaho fence in Post Falls. Not an easy job NWF was 6days a week 10 hours a day 30 years ago work for the railroad these days…run my train past 5 fences I built that are still standing and makes me appreciate my engineer job more every time I pass them! Keep up the good work!
@LTVoyager is right: nothing magical about 45 degrees. It’s just that the tension or compression gets more extreme as the diagonal element gets closer to horizontal.
Another point: the top horizontal member is in tension either way. Its force is carried by fasteners either way. So while having the diagonal member in compression is better, the other forces need to be considered as well.
Great video!
It also depends on the direction of the wood used to build the gate.
With horizontal installed ‘planks’, your pressure-solution works great.
With vertical installed planks, the pressure solution will slowly push the vertical planks go wider and wider until the gate wont fit anymore
Nothing magical about 45°.
Moving the brace from 55° from vertical to 45° adds extra leverage bearing on the brace erasing any advantage. This calculation needs to be done with vectors, not intuition.
@@stipcrane once you exceed 45° the gate starts to work as a leverage, multiplying load forces.
It's a magical number in the way computer programmers use the term: It's unexplained, it's not necessary to understand how it's found, but if you change the value things go wrong. PI = 3.1415926 is an example. Here it's more "rule of thumb" than real magical number but OK.
@@SenselessUsername The point being made is that it's a clumsy rule that only sometimes manages to be helpful by accident, and can equally as often do nothing to improve the gate. A much better rule of thumb would be "If your gate is more than twice as wide as it is tall, consider splitting the braces into two sections." That rule would happen to kick in once the angle is around 65 degrees, which is about where you would actually start seeing some slight benefits to the different construction.
Here because of the algorithm. I have no intention of needing to fix a gate or anything to do with fences or gates, but these guys are awesome, and I love the video.
The algorithm works in mysterious ways.
Quality content is quality content.
I had no intention of watching this video, but the thumbnail was interesting to me. I watched the whole way through too. Sooooo KEEP IT UP!
On iron gates its best to do the opposite of wood because metal will bend easier than stretch.
I work in steel, and endorse this statement.
Makes sense, similar to what the mentioned about rods/tensioning at the start
thanks for posting this. I made an iron gate in tension a few years ago, and i thought it was a failure.
build a steel gate the opposite to a wood one? thats nonsense, if you makf the steel gate out of steel with the same profile as the wood used, then the steel gate will react to forces applied to it, in exactlly the same manner as the wood one, the only difference being the steel gate will withstand load forces many times higher than the wood one, if you want to see where the loads are appied to a gate, just have a look at a shelf bracket, the direction of loads on a shelf bracket are exactly the same as those acting on a gate, theres a reason why shelf brackets are never fitted upside down…and they are normally made from steel,
@robertmagnusjamieson1759 that would assume you used the same coss section of steel as wood, but typically a steel gate would be made of slimmer sections than a timber one due to steel being harder and denser than wood.
Slim sections are more susceptible to buckling than thick sections of equal tensile strength, which is why we use them in tension not compression.
You can pull a truck with a wire hawser, but you can't push it.
Your example with your arm is incorrect. If that gate on the left were just as long but taller, the brace would work fine. The reason the brace starts to fail at less than 45 degrees is that it approaches parallel to the horizontal members of the gate and starts to lose the advantage of a triangle. As the angel of the brace gets shallower, a given amount of compression of the brace translates into a larger vertical movement of the gate.
nothing worse than shallow angels!
got me!@@kenwittlief255
Well, your explanation may be understood by some of us, I’m guessing that the visual he showed about which direction to put the piece of wood as far more useful to 90% of the viewers 😂
Built gates for 35 years. Ditch the cedar or redwood as those wood species are too soft to serve as structural support. For a personnel gate weld 1" square aluminum tubing into a rectangle with one cross brace. Weld on a piece of flat plate to secure a latch. Then attach your fence boards directly to the aluminum with short deck screws. There, the gate will never rot, twist or sag. For driveway gates use 1 1/2 or 2" tubing and a little trigonometry for additional bracing. In and around Pasadena CA you can find over 200 of these gates which I built.
Do you happen to have any quick pictures of your driveway gates? Been thinking on framing up my own for a 20' split swing config but don't quite know best way to mount hinge, wheels, etc. Also do you use stainless deck screws through boards? Appreciate any advice! Thanks for sharing
@alberthartl8885 i think youll find the video is about bracing a gate, not making one!
For this comment to fit in with the video you should have said which way the cross brace goes. Clue: metal tubing is best in tension not compression.
Aluminum tubing absolutely corrodes if you do not provide an anode and make it a circuit. Calcifies and pits up until it’s weaker than rusty steel.
@@VariHapiiI hope he’s not using stainless screws with aluminum posts, I’d rather have zinc screws rot off than rot my posts. Aluminum when mixed with steel with be a mess without an anode.
What a great video presentation. Any preference on the kind of wood to use for a gate in South Florida?
A tension brace of cable on threaded rod will cause the gate to twist or warp, unless it is dead center in the gate. Can’t be done with a face mounted brace kit.
Gates always sag on time .
This helpful. Thank you! Does this also work for chain link? I’m guessing yes.
If my gate is long enough that I put a support wheel on the other side to keep the post up, would you put the second brace facing the wheel?
I like this question.
Probably yes but it depends. A brace pointing downwards towards the wheel will direct more of the load to the wheel. Usually you want that since it means less on the rest of the structure. But then the question is, how much load can the wheel handle?
Mate mind boggling video, yam here from NZ (an entry level DIYer), I'm looking at installing smart screen to my pergola and a hidden door accessible from outside and it straightaway solved my doubt on the bracing. I still have couple of doubts about the railings (like half lap joint where horizontal panel if outside or Inside, I'm sure I will find solution in your other videos... Thanks for making this one.. Cheers
There is no magic about 45deg. Sure It is a good rule of thumb; the shallower the angle the more weight is on compression and the more it pushes the end out proportionally to the amount it supports then end in the upward angle, but 46 deg is not all of a sudden going to break or last half as long. Same applies to tension cables. If you had a gate 3x the height a tension cable and its mounting will need to be much stronger than for a square. But a 5' wide gate that is 4' high would not really be a problem, either for compression or tension.
Other than the critical 45deg, I think the video was excellent and good for someone trying to keep in their dogs.
Thank you soooo much for this info!!! This really breaks down the concept/steps needed, to fix an existing saggy gate without replacing it! So much easier to understand than some of the longer more complex videos!
Glad it helped!
I’m currently working on a timber framed bridge design project for my school. It’s more of a conceptual drafting project than anything else because we’re not focused on the physics side of things just the hand drafting aspect, but this explains so much about historic wooden bridge designs it’s hilarious to think I had this element explained so well in a recommended video about fence integrity.
This is called curated content. Your webbrowser is watching you
I put the bottom of the diagonal on the hinged stile not the rail. That way the stile-rail joint has no added forces. Also, the brace doesn’t need to span the diagonal. On a gate taller than it is wide a 45 degree brace to the hinge leg is sufficient and allows a horizontal rail in the middle as an attachment point to help keep vertical facing flat.
Mostly good info, but your two diagonal design for the long gate has that center post in tension so it relies on the fasteners to connect it to the frame or the braces, but you made it seem like it'd work also without relying on fasteners.
yes and the brace in tension is also trying to break the fasteners holding the outside vertical board in place and the one holding the bottom horizontial board by the hinge
the premise of this video is wrong
Awesome video so what's the best way to frame were the it does not have worping on the latch side aways worp in or out like gates trying to twist. Fence company on there 3rd gate at my house keeps worping really bad
I admit I didn't watch the whole video, but for my wooden gates, I installed two diagonal threaded rods with a turn buckle in the middle, and eye hooks at each end, so I can adjust the gate at any time it gets out of alignment at the latch. It works great and won't wear out. Rust protection is required, but since you rarely need to adjust it after it is set up correctly, I just painted the threaded rods and turn buckle to match the wooden gate. You can always touch up the paint if it gets scuffed off during any of your adjustments. For this application, the brace is installed in tension, like the position of the wood brace when he first tried it.
where did you get a left hand threaded rod?
@@jimbosander lots of hardware stores have turn buckle kits that come with a left hand threaded eye hook on one end and a right hand threaded eye hook on the other side, so all I did was replace the right hand threaded eye hook with a standard threaded rod of the same diameter and thread pitch. I then drilled a hole in the gate at the upper corner of the hinge side at the correct angle, and slipped the rod through the hole and put a nut on the end of it. I then attached the turn buckle to the other opposite corner with a J hook screw into the gate, so I could measure where to cut the threaded rod. I think you can figure out the rest.
@@traveling.down.the.road56 ah, you connected the left handed to the frame, makes sense. I'd visualized the tb in the middle of two asymetric rods :)
Thanks.
I built gates in steel tube and put the braces the other way. Not intentionally but just was not thinking at the time. They look great and don't sag in the least and you'd really have to stop and look and think for quite a time to see the mistake. In timber they'd have sagged to the ground by now. Thank God for steel and for arc welders is all I can say.
How the hell did I get here? Very interesting though
Yeah, same.
🤣👍🏼
Have you talked about repairing or working on a fence lately? Google is always listening. That's how I got here. Just did a fence build last weekend.
That’s what I’m saying too 😂
Very educational and one of the best demonstrations of gate compression and tension braces.
I've built gates now for over 25 years knowing the right place to put the brace, and the once all of the fasteners are in place it's solid. As long as the post or whatever the hinges are attached to is solid... I've also adapted the brace laying flat ,so the fence boards have 3 1/2 " of area to fasten to and it's a lot less chance of flexing. I also cut both ends of the brace into a point so it rides both side and top and bottom of gate. Not sure if this is followable but I thought I'd give it a shot. I also have never had any issues with sag when building six by six foot gates ,and just having the one brace corner to corner. Yet! But I'll keep that anti sag cable in mind thanks. Usually just have a wheel on the bottom 😏
More of a question for you experts. I have a 13' wide opening that I want to install a sliding wooden gate. Frame for gate will be wood with cedar pickets. Plan on putting 1-5/8" top rail on 4x4 posts with rollers that I assume would be considered the hinge side. How should I install diagonal bracing? Height of gate frame will be 5'-5". Since it is wood should I put a vertical 2x4 every 5' and run brace diagonal from top to bottom (hinge side)?
Love this video, no bs long winded talking. Simply to the point.
I appreciate that!
@SWiFence I second that opinion. No music. No title waste of time Don't tell me why I'm here I know why. Straight to the point... particularly good because now I understand the difference between tension and compression... pretty interesting...
Can I build a 9 ft single wood fence gate using the Two Compression braces? 3:03 If so, should I use 2x4 or 2x6?
Dammm you guys packed a whole bunch of info in a few minutes, love the back and forth conversation. Had to subscribed
I love the presentation and I think your model is cool, but is the model a fair representation of a picket fence gate construction? I may attempt to repair the double-wide swing gate. We paid three different contractors to rebuild the picket fence on the three sides our property over the course of two years [2020 to 2022]. Each contractor's crews had different skill levels; however, it seems that no one can build a gate that is problem-free. I am not a carpenter, I am not a mechanic, I am not a handyman and I am not a video-editor, but I am a beginner DIY Guy. I may attempt to repair the double-wide swing gate - the crew used the Adjust-A-Gate 1-1/2-in Steel-Painted Gate Kit - the crew either threw out the turnbuckle and cable kit along with the instructions [I retrieved the instructions, but never found the turnbuckle and cable]: 3 weeks ago they returned to replace the cedar siding with James Hardy cement-fiber siding. I informed them about the gate problems, so they purchased turnbuckle kits and installed them, but I think one of the kits was installed incorrectly thus the one gate was pulled downward to the ground by the cable and the other gate was pulled upward by the other cable. They stopped by again today to attempt to fix the gate - they failed and threw in the towel. They proposed to replace the double-wide gate with single-entry gate. The single-entry gate has to be wide enough for our lawn tractor. I just wish I could get the double-wide gate repaired correctly.
I usually put the wood brace in compression but also add a steel tensioner! Yeah, i wear both belt and suspenders 😂
lol a real Chad
They don't make them like they used to.
Why not attach the brace to the bottom of the vertical (the one that is hinged to swing from the post) and the top horizontal rail, at or near the junction with the second vertical?
The two-brace method on the wider gate puts the center vertical member in tension. The compression of the diagonals tries to bend the rails apart and transmit all their tension into the fasteners connecting the center upright to rails.
Seems like making a V from the boards both pushing against a center would make the most sense. The inside board wouldn't have much tension on it, but would be keeping the center board straight.
@@JLarsis there a point in having the center beam in that case, with regard to saghing that is?
@@JLars A second one from top of hinge side to lower center wouldn't help for the same reason as the first example on the shorter gate. As the gate begins to sag, the second brace would just be dragged away from the center board, leaving no support for it or the angled brace. Some other sort of brace to support the center board and/or cables crossing each angled brace for support could work. I've not tried it, so I'm not sure.
Holy cow… this was the most useful 5 minutes I’ve spent in YEARS! Thanks guys!!!
You're welcome!
I didn't even know I didn't know this.
Thanks!
@@carlsoholt5265 Me neither & couldn’t have phrased it any better !!!
Well... turns out I built my gate wrong, and the tension cable I used warped it more than it prevented it from sagging. Five years later, I watched your video, flipped the brace, removed the cable, and everything's good now. Thank you!!!
Nice!
Did you take your gate doors off to do all that? Our fence (installed by a fencing company). Installed our doors incorrectly. 😢 after doing research I have realized this. Our boards running diagonally were put on the wrong way. So I need to take them off, flip them then add a tension brace. I’m very pregnant and would need assistance in taking the doors off. So if it’s necessary I’ll take them off but if it’s not I’d rather leave them on. 😂
This is why you give your kids blocks as a toddler and not sit them behind a TV!
Yet here you are watching a video learning like the rest of us…
@x_Heffe_X I believe you missed my point, but it's never a bad thing to see someone elses ideas.
@@mikerainey3847 I didn’t miss your point, I was just giving you a hard time haha.
I fixed my wood fence gate by putting a caster wheel at the end. Been working for over 22 years so far
Poor kid, looking at the back of a tv. 😂
What about using both styles? A beam to take the compression and back it up with a wire taking on tension? By necessity the wire would have to pass through the compression brace (which is, itself, reinforced at that point) or to one side or the other of it (or both) which I imagine would impart wear where the two cross if they're in contact.
Holy cat crap, I've been doing this backwards my whole fuggin life!
You've been making gates you're whole life but bracing the opposite way? I smell Bullshit
I have one of those anti sag kits on 2 of my gates. Still plumb after 6 years. i did drill the top flange and bottom flange and added a screw in each.
My wife says she needs the anti sag kit...
underrated comment 🤣
How do you fix a twisting gate? Could I use the tension brace to force it back?
Everything was straightforward until the 45⁰ subject. If your gate is wider than it is tall then the angle of the brace will be less than 45⁰. No problem. It still works.
Thanks for this really clear and instructive video ! I have one doubt : if you tense a wire only on one side of the fence wouldn't it curve the fence to that side ? Should it have one wire on esch side ?
Yes, if you're really going to crank down on it. Our anti-sag kits are meant to prevent sag in an already-constructed gate. If you are only using wire in tension for support, you're correct--you'll need it on both sides.
how do people build Bill Gates?
However they do it, please lock him in and keep rest of us safe!
A little bit of vaccine and a lotta bit of Epstein?
Best ask Satan
First you get a whole bunch of horse shit and pile it up 2 stories high and your on your way
With heaps of cash
Install compression braces which go outbound from bottom rail to top rail and tension links from top to bottom.
Its a question as to which hinge is taking the most load, as well as which fasteners.
With the first option on the small gate most of the load is on the lower hinge and on the top outer fasteners.
With the second option the load is on the top hinge and on the lower outer hardware.
I like that you are trying to understand the forces applied. It is a cantilever upon a post into a footing with an unsupported top of post.
What you have is called a pin joint around the perimeter or frame. This is a good method to use, it allows freedom of rotation (moment) in the assy. The supports that you show have no pin joint connections. This shows nothing structural, it is simply a gravity prop and means nothing, If you pinned the joints they would appear the same.
Try a 6'x 20' swing gate, It will look a bit different in actual forces applied but is the same.
Would it not be better to have the outer angled brace pointing towards the middle too? That vertical has one brace pushing the top one way and the bottom the other. Relying on fixings to hold it in place
Can someone explain to me why the cross brace, when under compression, attaches to the bottom of the gate instead of the side where the hinge is?
For example, at 0:50 he places the cross piece in as an example. It runs from the top frame (top right) to the bottom frame (bottom left). But wouldn't it be even stronger if it ran from top frame (top right) to bottom of the side frame (bottom *side* left)? Isn't it just putting more force on the joint the way he has it set up? Wouldn't pushing against the side of the gate be stronger?
Yep that may be slightly better because the force is closer to the pivot. But also, wood is compressible and you don’t want a sharp point, and the gain is minimal for a real gate
Tension is transferred to the horizontal piece. Always areas of tension and compression. Tension that is perpendicular would be preferable to any other angle though… particularly with a welded metal gate.
Basically, build your gate according to the load. Much like a house, you want to re-direct the weight to the stable element. In this case, the post. How you transfer load to that point, is more important. So, learn how to build a bridge, and you can build a gate.
As somebody who does extensive rigging training, angles are very near and dear to me. It is my favorite portion to teach because people do not understand how angles/degrees can add so much more tension.
Good video.What is the correct way if the 2x4's are in a flat square frame and the balusters in the gate are vertical 2x4's what's the best way to give it support?
I built fences and decks for years, and used a gate design that did not sag! I was always amazed at the individuals that didn't get this concept.
Maybe they had a crappy instructor or supervisor that was too busy being amazed at their own brilliance to teach them.
Maybe the gate was built over a hundred years ago as the ones on my ranch are from the 1810s and rebuilt in the 1890s. I think my ancestors were drinking lots of moonshine when building gates. We have trapezoid and windmill tensioners on our gates. They look weird and random but lasted the test of time.
@@alwil1563 Plausible, but I've always taken the time to explain it clearly.
And not for nothing but... just cause you have one, doesn't mean you need to act like one!
When u put that brace in tension mode, the weight of the gate will tend to bend the top of the post also.
I've seen some wooden gate installations where they add a tension rod running through the wooden compression brace.
This only applies if the wood is captured within the frame. If you just screw a piece onto the face of the frame it won't matter because the screws are holding it either way. If you use a cable, make sure to use a turnbuckle so you can adjust the leveling/height easily.
is that second brace really necessary? you could have the brace hit the top bar in the middle , like a gallows , and everything would stay square woudnt it ?
If its a single door gate less than 4" wide....no braces or vertical frame work is needed. Put large Tee hinges directly on the horizontal members of the gate, the fence boards are the verticals. I leaned this trick from an old timer over 40 years ago, and it still works.
We're basically talking about truss design here. A properly designed truss can be attached with a single connection point at each intersection (which would allow it to rotate) and the triangle prevent any movement. With your example of the anti-sag wire, the gate could still fold up if it was lifted on the free end. On the other hand, if you installed an additional anti-sag kit across the other direction (thus making an "X" design), then all the corners would be in tension and it would not fold up when lifted.
Sometimes though, you just need to put a wheel on the gate so that it can roll across the ground instead of only being supported on one end. Maybe you don't want to put that much weight hanging out on the post that you had to use for the gate... Maybe the angle of the terrain is such that you can't position the hinges so that the gate will follow the slope of the ground through its entire opening arch... For example, I have a 10 ft x 3 ft gate in the breezeway between my garage and house that I used this method on... The posts were already in the concrete slab of the driveway / patio and seemed fairly sturdy, but I wasn't sure if it would handle that much of a load on it, plus I wanted the gate to be able to swing over 180 degrees and the slope of the driveway was different than the slope of the patio... No matter where I placed the hinges, the end of the gate would either be dragging or somewhat high in the air depending upon which way I opened the gate... So, I just made some elongated loops from steel rod so that the hinge pins could "float" and installed a wheel on the end of the fence... Putting a cross-brace on the fence (even a wire in tension) was not an option because of the damn HOA Nazis that we have here... They will actually trespass on your property looking for violations that are not visible from the street... I've had to impress upon them that trespassing on someone's property is not particularly survival-oriented behavior (i.e. is not conducive to a long life) here in Texas...
If my wood gate is sagging do I have to take the hinges off first and then put a wood compression brace on or just place a piece a wood under it and then put the brace in
I believe the placement of the lower end as shown exerts pressure on the hinge. If placed against the vertical it would redirect the pressure
Nice demonstration. However in a true fence the horizontal crossbeams will be secured by a vertical post at either side, so the diagonal support beam can actually go either way
I knew about the proper direction of a compression brace in a gate, but the knowledge nugget about it having to be less than 45° I did not know. In the near future I will be fencing my backyard and there will be a rugged gate big enough to get the mower into the back yard and this will come in handy.
You may mention that there are crazy rugged, wide continuous hinges (aka piano hinges) available that would be perfect for heavy wood gates that will spread the load of the gate over nearly the entire height of the attachment post(s) and alignment is a breeze.
Well, actually... even in the second version, it all relies on the fasteners, just other ones! You are still tensioning the top hinge side fasteners of the frame, instead of the brace' ones.
The left hand gate still doesn't work. The angle brace closest to post puts horizontal load on top joint of center vertical member causing joint to fail. Then bottom joint fails and gate fails.
Does the 45 degree rule apply to the tension cable method? The compression rule makes sense because it adds tension stress to the top plank and shear force to the outside top corner placing all the stress on the fasteners.
With a tension cable though I can’t think of a way that the angle can come into play. Seems that no matter the angle the force remains to be compression on the bottom plank.
Is this right?
The fasteners on the corners of the box touching the compression brace have about as much stress as fasteners holding a tension brace would right?
I thought I couldn't possibly learn more from this, boy I was wrong, thank you
Hey! Can you knuckleheads make a video about repairing and rejuvenating a chain link fence that surrounds a typical home? That is another project for me after i use two of your kits to unsag the doors to my woodshop. It is not a "gate" but I assume they will work just fine nevertheless.
I’ve installed fences for 11 years and have always braced from hinge to latch, hinge low side latch to the high side, and never had a problem
Same has to apply to ruff trusses. Pretty much anything with a inner or center support structure of wooden, metal but not masonry.
@swiFence What about preventing a gate from bowing. I build all my gates using the compression brace, however I find the gates begin to twist or bow from the bottom and the top. Meaning the top of the gate will pull back and the bottom of the gate will push forward or just the opposite. Any recommendations to prevent this from happening?
bracing in tension mode is fine IMO if you use a cable or rod with turnbuckles.
no sag gate kit at lowes, four pieces with hinges. works great.
It seems clear that the single brace on the long gate is more effective than the heavier and more complex version with three braces/boards. The single board not only holds the gate higher in the video, while the triple brace sags dramatically; but it also would likely hold more weight placed atop if easily tested.
The additional braces add almost nothing but extra weight and waste. The one brace that is working is now put at a severe mechanical disadvantage due to the length of the gate extending as a lever beyond it.
Braces should go corner to corner for maximum strength, as you first instructed, with few justifiable exceptions.
Or you can run your post that the gate is attached to 3' higher and attached you cable to the top down to the end of the gate with a turnbuckle so it can be adjusted when needed.
Kinematics. The gate without is a 4 bar linkage. The inserted member creates a fixed triangle.
So, if your angle is less than 45°, can you STILL double up by adding 2 compression braces (with the vertical brace as well obviously)?
ie. Is the added weight of the extra brace worth it, or are there diminishing returns if your single compression brace is already less than 45°?
The weight is transferred to the fasteners on the corners of the frame. Adding more weight will never reduce stress. It will only add and or transfer.
So the brace goes from the bottom of the hinge side to the top of the swing side? I have two gates on a back driveway. We have tension lines on both. The gates aren't technically sagging as much as they've been push out by wind. The gates are five feet each...how should I get it back to center?
Tentions visus compression so bassic to any builder TY
Why no mention about where the gate hinges are located - this is the very first thing I would want to know.
It's meant to be obvious which side of the gate is the hinge side. They're hinged to the post.
You guys didn't mention that a turnbuckle on the tension wire enables you to adjust the gate:: raise it or lower it so that the latche parts line up. Also, as the seasons change the gate can be adjusted at any time, with no need to fetch any tools.
Recent redo of 2 wooden gates (swinging, 110 inches total width, 55 each) and adjoining 8 foot section on each side, shadow style design. I welded two gate frames made of galvanized 1.5 steel square tubing, hung the gates on 6x6 posts with post master fence post supporting the adjoining sections. Recently withstood 100 + mph wind gusts. The older sections did not fair so well. 😢 Big believer in post master posts and steel gate frames. Enjoyed the video.
What would you do for a gate that is like your second example? It is super wide and is built like how you explained not to.
What is the rule for post depth? For example; if your gate is (X) long and (X) height, your post should be (X) height and installed (X) depth?
Also, if you're using wood for the post, what is the best wood and how should the post be installed into the ground, for example, in concrete or another type of material? Should there be the use of a barrier sheet as well?
Thank you in advance.
1/3 in the ground. Depending on your soil may need more depth.
Loaded question because so many things go into the answer. Soil type, weight of the gate, max swing of the gate, environment (rain, snow, heat).
If you want a better answer that applies to you please provide more details.
It wedges it thats all, any angle wedge wull do within reason.
4:23
Don’t cut the angled support beam, keep that solid and cut the horizontal beam instead since that’s only there for pickets to nail into.