Just starting my heat pump journey with Octopus. Have a large solar system (20kw) and battery. Hoping for fun times ahead! Thanks for the content very helpful (and reassurring).
Love your chronic thoroughness, JT. I had no interest in the general context of this video, aside from seeing your non-Logi insights, yet I came away curious about the potential of heat pumps. Cheers!
Thanks for the video's very informative. Now trying to find someone who is not so well off and having one fitted free or something to show what they would be like for the people who struggle to pay their energy bills but so far I haven't found anyone.
yeah i have not seen any, its very much a journey for those who can afford it right now. i would search for videos from electrical firms they may cover jobs for local councils or housing associations.
Thanks for the series, now looking forward to see your actual use figures over the next few weeks to get a feel for real use. A “ good” time for a cold snap to arrive too.
I wonder whether you have considered boxing in those pipes? I would be worried about the long term effects of the elements on the insulation, especially if it is in the sun for any prolonged periods. The insulation would be a pig and expensive to replace! Glad to see it up and running. A well presented journey.
thanks, i’m going to monitor it for a while, a friend suggested building a fake side chimney stack to enclose them. but if they look like it’s deteriorating in a year or two i can claim under the warranty. that’s 5 years so i have some time to monitor.
@JonathanTracey An easier to install option would be a PVC channel / raceway used for electrical cables. Or even a 3 or 4" drainage pipe cut out to allow it to cover the insulated pipes and attached with the normal pipe clamps
As an air con enginner I can tell you that insulation when exposed to sun for long periods will turn to shit also once is starts to flake birds will peck at it Get it covered up And replacing it is a nightmare
Great insight video into the installation process. I would love to see one on how you are installing the Shelly EM3 and other monitors. Thanks for sharing the journey.
@JonathanTracey well, your gonna regret saying that. Home monitoring and dashboard would be a fantastic thing to de-mystify....that and winter COP of the HP.
Just started watching, thanks for the updates. Apologies if I've missed this but have you revealed how much it cost or will you be revealing that? I mean the capital cost not the ongoing cost, although that would also be good to know. Thanks
Yeah I’ll be covering it real soon however there’s no secret. The Heat Pump installation cost me about £3700 plus another 300 to get my showers adapted will cover the running costs in the future video once I have some data.
Though Octopus use 50°c as a design temperature you will find the weather curve can be dropped to around 45°c. Every °c drop saves about 2% on running cost.
Great video, it seems to be common from the 80s onward since gas was installed to have the main thermostat in the ground floor hallway which takes the longest to warm up in a two storey house. Octopus should have installed the room stat in the Living Room which is enclosed and away from doorways and sources of draught
water is set to 43 degrees, that's our prefered temperature, it can go a lot higher but that's comfortable for showers and washing up. Our water pressure is fantastic, its about 2 to 2.5bar
good vid, was about to sign up but losing all that loft the space is giving me resivations the chaotic pipe and wire runs are where the name octopus comes from perhaps.
The chaotic pipe runs are really down to what was there before? We didn’t actually lose any space as all of that piping is now where the water tank was so the part of the loft you can’t see behind me is the fully boarded out storage area. the plumber did say That it could be made later but it would require me to get a plumber to come in and tidy things up given we didn’t need the space. I told him just to do the best he could with what we had and that’s the result.
Would be very concerned with the electrical boxes exposed to the elements. Still don’t think this will heat a home when the temperature drops below freezing.
Electrical boxes are specifically designed for external use, and are to current electrical code. With regards to the cold weather the installed base of people with heat pumps would say otherwise. But if it does not I will put my hands up and say so
Why would it not heat a home when temperature is below the freezing point of water which is about 273C above absolute zero ? The practical operational range for the unit is down to -25C.
i think people’s confusion comes from the fact below about -10 it gets progressively less efficient. but it’s still more efficient than using a gas boiler or immersion heater
@@JonathanTracey we have had access to apps ever since 2021 when our Powerwall and extra solar were fitted. I’m still hooked on watching them. When our original Fits system was fitted in 2012 we had no idea what was happening and could only guess from the production meter and the reduction in mains in the summer. You can’t have too much information but interpreting it properly can be an issue. It’s fun finding out though.
Sounds exactly like me, our original system installed in 2010 had a simple real time meter on the front of the inverter however it was in the attic and I got sick of climbing up and down the ladder to check on it. No apps no data just an electricity bill at the end of the month to try and divine how much I’ve saved. Things are better now, but we have the tyranny of data.
I am sure a lot of people are in the same situation, however technology moves on and rules change maybe there will be other options in the future that works for you
I am no 100% sure but looks like this switch in your airing cupboard on the octopus junction box is turned on. I saw someone recently saying they should only be turned on when you’re doing the legionella cycle although I’m not sure if leaving it on means the immersion is on 100% of the time.
So my system is set up a little differently because I have the myenergi Eddie. Instead of the Heat Pump controlling the thermostat directly it’s the Eddie that is powered up permanently. This allows me to schedule the legionella cycle from the interface and also divert any excess solar. I want into the tank so yes it’s probably a little different from a standard install, but that’s the reason it’s powered on.
From what you have said, your house may be similar to mine, 4 bed build in 1997, with medium levels of insulation inc cavity walls filled. Certainly you old boiler setup was the same as mine. Can you please share the size of your house in sqm, no of bedrooms, if you are trying to heat the conservatory, the calculated heat loss, and the size of the heat pump?
We’re only a 3 bed but our insulation is quite good. The conservatory is heated with electric heaters so not on the wet system and it’s a 6kw heat pump
Tank is 172l which is more than enough for us. It’s around 1.5m tall and 475mm diameter. Didn’t cover flux as I’m an ev owner so will stay on the Go tarrifs for the winter and switch back to availed in the spring. These give me enough hours to charge my house batteries and run the Heatpump all day. Flux is too expensive off peak for my usage.
details on costs coming in a video in next few days, the overflow pipe has no water in it to freeze, if the pump were to activate and pump water out of the cylinder it will be at around 43c so even with a cold pipe it won’t freeze
What sort of anti frost do you have for the heat pump? Do you have an electric one built in, I believe that’s where the madness comes when the defrost cycle starts and has to constantly run like an immersion heater and the costs can get rather high.
It’s has a defrost function that uses hot water from the volumiser to defrost if needed. Combined with the lagged pipes should be ok,mint does not get that cold here
The freeze protection is provided by the Caleffi Anti freeze valves which would open should the water circuit temperature fall to 3C or below, they can be seen on the video @ 2:08. This would only ever happen in practice if below 3C and a prolonged power cut. If that is more likely then anti-freeze would be mixed in the water circuit; down side of that is it reduces specific heat capacity, i.e less efficient at moving heat to radiators. The defrost cycle works by pumping warm water from inside (this is where the 'volumizer tank' pays its way) back out to the heat pump to allow the evaporator (the radiator) on the heat pump to de-ice. There are no back up immersions used in the U.K Daikins as far as I'm aware, they might only be required in cold climates where temperatures are regularly below 20C or so. My unit is identical to this one (EDLA06E2V3). Yesterday for example it used 11.5 kWh to keep 2 bedroom semi cosy for 24 hours, living room 22C, bathroom 24C, the rest about 20 or 21C. External temperature was down to 3.5C, averaged 7.2C for the 24 Hr period. My HP tariff from British Gas is 14 p/kWh.... So not overly expensive at all, when all has been set as desired.
Thanks for the info. My immersion is controlled from my Eddie so I can heat with excess solar if I wish. However thinking about it, that makes no sense. 1kw of excess solar via the immersion is let’s say .95kw heat. 1kw via the heat pump = say 3kw of heat
Thanks for sharing this, got my install in January and hoping for the same success. Did I spy an infrared heating panel on the ceiling of one of your rooms?
no it takes about 20 to 30 minutes to get back up to temperature. The only reason it took longer once we started the system for the first time is the house was very cold having not been heated for four days.
@@JonathanTraceyThermal mass dissipation runs at 8 times faster than gain, so the 20 30 mins is wishful thinking. These systems are great to run underfloor heating, but traditional wet systems are very inefficient. But as long as he is happy that's all that matters. Like most new energy, solar or heat pumps, is the payback period...or your trying to save the planet..
Great video thanks, my install looks suspiciously similar to yours had mine installed by Octopus in April, I did a quick tot up of how many guys they had doing mine and I’m 99% certain they have to be losing money on these installs, I agree Octopus were brilliant for anyone that’s thinking of using them In the five day install I was without hot water for three days I think and heating for five - always happens in a cold snap the missus was not a happy bunny lol, though they did provide heaters so you can keep the important rooms warm and the house is definitely warmer now than when we had the gas boiler so I get brownie points for that now I used to wear a dressing gown around the house when I had a gas boiler… no more need for extra layers now, nice and toasty all day and the towels on the towel rails are always bone dry Was great to relive the experience watching your videos, I couldn’t believe how much work the guys do over the 5 days and how busy it was in the house that week, real scandal that these aren’t put in in new builds they’re such a faff to retrofit and so much good stuff gets thrown in the tip - bit of a government scandal really Look forward to the next videos 👍
thanks i agree amazing team but given the labour it must be done at below cost or close to zero profit. i am sure they have a way to make it up on the back end. however nothing but praise for them
They will be fitted in new builds, gas boilers were barred in Scotland April this year, and I believe April next for England/Wales. Presumably those that have already been approved before those dates will still go ahead after.
Yeah makes sense for new builds, however most new builds I see are rabbit hutches racked into blocks, not sure where you would put the heat pump and comply with building regs
This is interesting. I didnt know heat pumps could be used with radiators. Im from the US where central heating is often ducted, fan forced and gas fired. My parents had heat pumps. Ive experienced radiators that were steam provided byvgas fired boiler. We also have electric baseboard heaters too. I can only image how expensive baseboard heat can be!
Glad it all went well. I'm envious of the width you have down your side ally way for the HP. Mine's only 1m wide so regs prevent locating a HP there as it would be too close to a boundary (fence in my case). I have limited other places to locate a HP in either the front or rear garden that I would find aesthetically pleasing so this is currently the biggest barrier I have switching to a HP from a gas boiler.
yeah they said a meter in front of the unit was needed. as the side is triangular we had to move it back a little more than i would like but it’s not in sight lines so happy with location
I feel more positive about Heat Pumps now, but I would only consider it as part of a package that included Solar and a Battery otherwise, it is just so expensive and any possible savings would take over a decade to recoup. I am not convinced that if you have this kind of money available that this is the greenest use for it, the amount of CO2 saved compared to the amount spent doesn't make sense.
I think it only makes financial sense when you’re actually looking to replace an outdated or broken heating system. At that point it’s easy to justify we built our system up with solar and batteries over many years so the financial outlay of each part paid for itself before we moved onto the next so our Heat Pump is now looking at paying for itself in about five years. With regards to the CO2 saved every single device you buy is going to have inherent CO2 as part of the manufacturing however a heat pump running on clean electricity won’t generate any more CO2 during its life whereas a gas boiler will continue to add CO2 to the atmosphere every single day that you use it.
Thanks for the videos as I'm waiting for and Octopus install in March. Could you tell me where the pumps are, do you have a seperate pump by the volumiser or just the one in the heat pump itself?
@@JonathanTraceywhat is a D2 emergency pump? Never come across anyone needing a pump before for issues to do with a heat pump install so is it something peculiar to your install, like the safety overflow pipe couldn't run to falls and needed to be pumped instead?
its an emergency pump as the cylinder is pressurised, should something go wrong a float valve in the pump will evacuate the pressurised cyclinder outside the building. Saves it flooding your upstairs with water at 2bar
@@JonathanTracey I have tried to find a "D2" pump that might be the one you are talking about and can only find a grundfos moderator pump. That would likely handle limited discharge from your cylinders pressure relief valve if you were unable to run the discharge to outside using pipes laid to falls, but would do nothing to empty your cylinder. In the event of any failure that needed the cylinder to be emptied that would need to be an incredible pump to offset mains water entering the cylinder at 2 bar, would have thought better and a lot simpler to have a solenoid valve to cut off the water supply going into the cylinder. Are you sure this pump isn't just dealing with the discharge from the safety valve as I said in my original post? Do you have the manufacturers details?
yes we have two EVs but rarely charge both at the same time. so we manage on-a single phase. i did look into getting three phase but was eye wateringly expensive
@JonathanTracey interesting, we're on single phase, have two EVs, but only one charger. There seems to be this thinking that to have car charging and a heat pump, you must have three phase. Obviously not in your case.
No, but I do have to be a little careful, otherwise I could easily exceed the 100 amp limit. However, we do have a rather large battery system which supplies most of the energy to the house. It’s only during the off peak periods where we’re pulling from the grid that I have to be aware of exactly what is scheduled to charge at what time? One of the ways I do this is to have my wife’s car charge at 3.6 kW.
So that was a compromise given we couldn’t move the Heat Pump to the left because it would’ve overhang the edge of the conservatory which would’ve caused other issues and we couldn’t move the pipes to the right in the attic because of an obstruction. So the best alternative was to hide the Change of angles behind the Heat Pump and hopefully nobody would notice :-)
Just wondering why you did not end up with a Cosy 6 rather than the Daikin? Was it offered? Did you have reasons not to have it? And there is a lot of piping in your loft - is all of it due to the heat pump installation or is most of that for your showers?
I discussed it with my survey team and they told me that the weight for a cozy six was quite a long time. to be honest, I would rather have the Daikin, millions of these units have been installed there are very much unknown quantity whereas the cozy six is the first product from octopus and I’m not sure I want to be a beta tester with my heating system. Some of the piping in the attic is for the showers and a few other things so the team basically worked around that as they’re not allowed to touch any legacy plumbing unless they’re removing it.
@ Hi thanks for the reply I am having a heat pump fitted by octopus in December and just a little concerned about the size as they are fitting the 4kw Daikin for me I live in a 4 bedroom new build property. Thanks for all your videos I know pretty much what to expect now.
I didn't know they did a 4kw version but so long as your heat loss suvey is correct it should be ok, hope it all goes well for you, get some warm clothes ready as a couple of days without heat in december will be chilly
We had a heat source pump installed a couple of years ago. It was turned off after a years use far to expensive. Have gone back to our LPG tank gas for central heating and hot water. We have saved ourselves at least 50% in money. Having tried it for a reasonable amount of time l have to say no thanks.
that's interesting to hear, my data and I only have 1 weeks worth at this point is its saving me money. I think to really maximise the savings you need solar and batteries as well, then you can really maximise it.
@JonathanTracey Yes l can see what you mean but at our ages all the upheaval it would entail to have all the extras and the added expense l am happy as we are. I just hope it works for you. Best wishes for the future
One of the brokers who supply stuff they do not produce. Gas, Electricity. The only suppliers is Transco Gas and the Central Electric Generating Company. AL Brokers produce nothing but double the price they pay for you.
Sorry not sure i understand what your point is, yes gas is not something you can create yourself so your at the mercy of energy prices. At least with solar I can generate my own power
What flow temperature did they design your system at? I’ve got Octopus coming next week to survey my house, they pre-quoted only £4400, but I’ve had British Gas and Heat Geek both quoting around £14000 (all after rebate), so there has to be some level of compromise in the octopus system to get the price down so much.
Yes, before grant it was over £20K. They are very communicative though, and will go over the Octopus quote to advise me on any key differences and look at their quote as well. Key differences with them, they guarantee the SCOP they will achieve, and if it doesn’t they fix the system at their own cost. Plus I think the warranties on the equipment are a lot longer (they use Vailant). I f they build to a 40 (or may have been 45) degree flow temp they quote £21K, if they build to 50 degrees it was £18.5K Main difference is all the extra large radiators needed. Labour, is £8.5K to £10K alone depending on the flow rate. Rads, pump and new cylinder is between £5K and £7K plus another £3K for sundries….so it all mounts up,
I would like to say I am with octopus highly delighted with them I don't want a heat pump mine would have to bee in my front garden also today 23 11 24 we had snow overnight there are power cuts near me I will stick to my multifuel stove as long as poss o yes I live in co durham if I am forced to go all electric there will always be a fire in my house this is just the start of winter I would suggest buy a generator and keep warm
Fully understand, I don't think heatpumps are for everyone, but I think they are an important option for a lower carbon future. I know the government are going to mandate them in new builds and stop installation of gas boilers but I hope we never get to a situation where its the only choice. I don't need a generator as we have sufficient battery storage to last many days and in the 27 years I have lived her the longest power cut was only a few hours.
@@barryfoster453 My heat pump is the same as above, most of the year it does not need to run continuously, even coming into winter now that could still be the case if desired, also the temperature can be set back a bit if needed. Nice and cheap to run (see my post further up).
Watched another video where the heating engineer said that heat pumps are not cheaper to run than conventional gas boilers. You have to install a solar and battery set up to make then cost effective. Don't forget that gas is far cheaper than electricity per kwh and that electricity is generated by burning gas. Heat pumps are not green and they are not cheaper. Who in their right mind would spend all that money installing a less efficient heating system. Heat pumps will never take off. Sorry, these are the facts.
no these are your opinions, different from facts. gas will never be green, even without solar your electricity can come from renewable sources like wind or a solar farm. Your heating engineer, does he by any chance fit boilers for a living? Strange he would be against heat pumps isn’t it.
@ChristopherLuke-o3l You are wrong on most accounts, that is the fact. 1) my electricity tariff is 14p/kWh, on my HP with a SCOP of 4.3 to date that works out at 3.25p/kWh of heat; compare that to gas supplied @ 7.5p/kWh, in an 85% efficient unit that's 8.8p/kWh of heat. No Solar PV or Battery here. 2) In North Scotland the electricity is more often than not 100% renewable as Scottish government did not put a ban on onshore wind turbines. 3)Heat pumps are green after the initial CO2 payback for construction, my HP can be bought over counter and fitted by me (or anyone) for under £3k. 4) Gas is very inefficient with a COP of 0.9 at best for the elusive 90% efficient boiler. Heat pumps on the other hand usually have a minimum SCOP of 3.5, often much higher. In this instance you are correct in saying:- "Who in their right mind would spend all that money installing a less efficient heating system", yet many still insist on gas. Heat Pumps have already taken off and have been used commercially over past 60 years plus in UK, many other countries have mature domestic heat pump markets, with UK really just starting. No need for you to apologise, you appear to have been mislead by others.
not sure wheee your getting your numbers from, my electricity usage has gone up by about 15p a day and my gas usage has gone e down by £2.50 a day. so based on that alone (ignoring it will run off solar 90% of the year) it will pay for itself in 4 years
Maybe learn how heatpumps work before making yourself look a fool with this kind of comment. An immersion heater takes 1kw of power and creates about .9kw of heat from it. A heat pump takes 1kw of power and creates 4kw of heat. So its 4x as efficient as an immersion. #educationyoushouldtryit
How did you end up justifying the cost, on its own it will never pay itself back, even saving £500 a year (big if) that’s probably a 25-30 year payback. My solar and batteries paid themselves off in around 6 years. I can make it work as I use intelligent octopus go, and some clever scripting in home assistant to use almost 95% cheap rate electricity over the year, so I save about £2.3K a year already, but I really want to ditch gas so I’m prepared to pay the green tax to get there, but it’s not a blank cheque.
Given it only cost me £3700 it will pay itself off quite quickly. I power it from surplus power in my batteries so the running costs are effectively zero. my average gas bill for heating hot water and cooking including the standing charge was around £65 per month so it should pay itself off in about 4 to 5 years just on the gas savings alone. However, I didn’t justify it as a return on investment. My plan has always been to be a self self-sufficient as possible before I retire that way my pension won’t be at the mercy of a volatile energy market.
Because you’re coming to my channel and posting your nonsense that’s why I read them. That’s why I reply to them. As I said every comment the matter how foolish drives engagement on my channel so that’s why I’m reading and responding. I’m still not any of the wiser why you think it’s a good use of your time to come here if the topic doesn’t interest you you don’t like what I’m saying And you’re just making yourself look like a fool
do keep posting your nonsense as comments help drive up my videos in the TH-cam algorithm so you’re more than welcome to keep posting them but don’t be surprised if you don’t get the response you’re looking for
Looks like a cracking job I'm in the middle of octopus heat pump process hope mine goes aswell as yours
My installers were a great team, knocked it out of the park. Have had no snags since install and nearly a month now
Just starting my heat pump journey with Octopus. Have a large solar system (20kw) and battery. Hoping for fun times ahead! Thanks for the content very helpful (and reassurring).
no worries feel free to hit me with an questions
Love your chronic thoroughness, JT. I had no interest in the general context of this video, aside from seeing your non-Logi insights, yet I came away curious about the potential of heat pumps. Cheers!
hey Nathan, welcome to my life outside of work. Thanks for watching the video. Hope you’re doing well.
Thanks for the video's very informative. Now trying to find someone who is not so well off and having one fitted free or something to show what they would be like for the people who struggle to pay their energy bills but so far I haven't found anyone.
yeah i have not seen any, its very much a journey for those who can afford it right now. i would search for videos from electrical firms they may cover jobs for local councils or housing associations.
Thanks for the series, now looking forward to see your actual use figures over the next few weeks to get a feel for real use. A “ good” time for a cold snap to arrive too.
Glad you like them! I’m glad it’s done before the weather changed. It was pretty cold having no heating for 4 nights
Great video and thank you for sharing your journey.Looking forward to hearing more about your system 👍
Thanks for watching! it’s been a long week but all good now
I wonder whether you have considered boxing in those pipes? I would be worried about the long term effects of the elements on the insulation, especially if it is in the sun for any prolonged periods. The insulation would be a pig and expensive to replace! Glad to see it up and running. A well presented journey.
thanks, i’m going to monitor it for a while, a friend suggested building a fake side chimney stack to enclose them. but if they look like it’s deteriorating in a year or two i can claim under the warranty. that’s 5 years so i have some time to monitor.
@JonathanTracey An easier to install option would be a PVC channel / raceway used for electrical cables. Or even a 3 or 4" drainage pipe cut out to allow it to cover the insulated pipes and attached with the normal pipe clamps
Yeah always an option, will see how it looks after a summer in the sun
As an air con enginner
I can tell you that insulation when exposed to sun for long periods will turn to shit also once is starts to flake birds will peck at it
Get it covered up
And replacing it is a nightmare
Thanks for the tips will look into it
Cheers for doing these videos mate, really enjoyed them
Glad you like them!
Great insight video into the installation process. I would love to see one on how you are installing the Shelly EM3 and other monitors.
Thanks for sharing the journey.
Happy to go over it, I’m actually having a qualified electrician hook them up but will show you how it’s done
@JonathanTracey that would be great. I am thinking of getting them done so any insight would be great.
Electricians are here on Monday so hopefully will have it fully setup by next weekend
Thank you for this, I'm new to the channel and looking forward to catching up on your heart pump journey.
You are so welcome! let me know if there is anything you would like to know more about. i’m news to this as well😂
@JonathanTracey well, your gonna regret saying that. Home monitoring and dashboard would be a fantastic thing to de-mystify....that and winter COP of the HP.
I’m teaching myself home assistant/yaml as we speak, once I have data can look at the COP
Glad everything has gone well Jonathan, really gives me confidence to start a heat pump journey next year, 👍
i think it comes down to the quality of the survey, team said our surveyed did a good job so it made their life easier.
@
Good to know when I start getting quotes.
Best of luck
Just started watching, thanks for the updates. Apologies if I've missed this but have you revealed how much it cost or will you be revealing that? I mean the capital cost not the ongoing cost, although that would also be good to know. Thanks
Yeah I’ll be covering it real soon however there’s no secret. The Heat Pump installation cost me about £3700 plus another 300 to get my showers adapted will cover the running costs in the future video once I have some data.
Though Octopus use 50°c as a design temperature you will find the weather curve can be dropped to around 45°c. Every °c drop saves about 2% on running cost.
yes it’s 50 at -7 i think, will check when back home later today
Great video, it seems to be common from the 80s onward since gas was installed to have the main thermostat in the ground floor hallway which takes the longest to warm up in a two storey house. Octopus should have installed the room stat in the Living Room which is enclosed and away from doorways and sources of draught
we did discuss but given how often we’re in and out with the dogs it would give a false reading in the front room.
Great videos, could you please do one on your Shelley energy monitors when installed
absolutely i’m going to have qualified electrician install them but will get pics as suspect they won’t want to be on youtube
Is it me they always show heat pump systems fitted on large houses, they never show them fitted to a Victorian 2 bed terrace, wonder why
i don’t know i don’t live in a 2 bed victorian terrace, nor is my house large, it’s a 3 bed
Total result!
yep super happy with it
I’d liked to have seen the new larger radiators, how many radiators were replaced?
I had six replaced, the largest is shown in one of the videos day 3 or 4, its basically a 3 pane radiator about 5cm thicker than a standard 2 pane one
what about hot water out the tap how hot is that is it just like a gas boiler heat ? and hows the water pressure
water is set to 43 degrees, that's our prefered temperature, it can go a lot higher but that's comfortable for showers and washing up. Our water pressure is fantastic, its about 2 to 2.5bar
Just looking for the true costs , when he had a system
posted a video yesterday that breaks down exactly what it cost me
good vid, was about to sign up but losing all that loft the space is giving me resivations
the chaotic pipe and wire runs are where the name octopus comes from perhaps.
The chaotic pipe runs are really down to what was there before? We didn’t actually lose any space as all of that piping is now where the water tank was so the part of the loft you can’t see behind me is the fully boarded out storage area. the plumber did say That it could be made later but it would require me to get a plumber to come in and tidy things up given we didn’t need the space. I told him just to do the best he could with what we had and that’s the result.
Would be very concerned with the electrical boxes exposed to the elements. Still don’t think this will heat a home when the temperature drops below freezing.
Electrical boxes are specifically designed for external use, and are to current electrical code. With regards to the cold weather the installed base of people with heat pumps would say otherwise. But if it does not I will put my hands up and say so
Why would it not heat a home when temperature is below the freezing point of water which is about 273C above absolute zero ?
The practical operational range for the unit is down to -25C.
i think people’s confusion comes from the fact below about -10 it gets progressively less efficient. but it’s still more efficient than using a gas boiler or immersion heater
They work better just below freezing than just above.
Fully agree they work very well when the air is below freezing, had my first example this week
Well done and enjoy! 😊
Thank you! 😃 very happy with the work, now have to stop myself watching the app/energy usage graphs
@@JonathanTracey we have had access to apps ever since 2021 when our Powerwall and extra solar were fitted. I’m still hooked on watching them. When our original Fits system was fitted in 2012 we had no idea what was happening and could only guess from the production meter and the reduction in mains in the summer. You can’t have too much information but interpreting it properly can be an issue. It’s fun finding out though.
Sounds exactly like me, our original system installed in 2010 had a simple real time meter on the front of the inverter however it was in the attic and I got sick of climbing up and down the ladder to check on it. No apps no data just an electricity bill at the end of the month to try and divine how much I’ve saved. Things are better now, but we have the tyranny of data.
We couldn't do this with our property with the restrictive rear access !
I am sure a lot of people are in the same situation, however technology moves on and rules change maybe there will be other options in the future that works for you
I am no 100% sure but looks like this switch in your airing cupboard on the octopus junction box is turned on. I saw someone recently saying they should only be turned on when you’re doing the legionella cycle although I’m not sure if leaving it on means the immersion is on 100% of the time.
So my system is set up a little differently because I have the myenergi Eddie. Instead of the Heat Pump controlling the thermostat directly it’s the Eddie that is powered up permanently. This allows me to schedule the legionella cycle from the interface and also divert any excess solar. I want into the tank so yes it’s probably a little different from a standard install, but that’s the reason it’s powered on.
Well spotted by the way 👍
Mine is set to on for the legionella cycle once a week, the operation is controlled by the daikin controlleer
that function is done by my eddie, it has its own schedule so we disabled the daikin feature
Great set of videos. How many radiators did they put TRVs on?
All six of the new ones, because the grant mandates them. All are fully open with strict instructions not to close them #pointless
From what you have said, your house may be similar to mine, 4 bed build in 1997, with medium levels of insulation inc cavity walls filled. Certainly you old boiler setup was the same as mine.
Can you please share the size of your house in sqm, no of bedrooms, if you are trying to heat the conservatory, the calculated heat loss, and the size of the heat pump?
We’re only a 3 bed but our insulation is quite good. The conservatory is heated with electric heaters so not on the wet system and it’s a 6kw heat pump
Size is approximately 80 sqm
Hi JT. Great video of your journey. 2 questions, what is your h w tank capacity and dimensions, and why no mention of Octopus Flux tariff ?
Tank is 172l which is more than enough for us. It’s around 1.5m tall and 475mm diameter. Didn’t cover flux as I’m an ev owner so will stay on the Go tarrifs for the winter and switch back to availed in the spring. These give me enough hours to charge my house batteries and run the Heatpump all day. Flux is too expensive off peak for my usage.
But how much to run and what happens if the overflow pipe is frozen?
details on costs coming in a video in next few days, the overflow pipe has no water in it to freeze, if the pump were to activate and pump water out of the cylinder it will be at around 43c so even with a cold pipe it won’t freeze
What sort of anti frost do you have for the heat pump? Do you have an electric one built in, I believe that’s where the madness comes when the defrost cycle starts and has to constantly run like an immersion heater and the costs can get rather high.
It’s has a defrost function that uses hot water from the volumiser to defrost if needed. Combined with the lagged pipes should be ok,mint does not get that cold here
The freeze protection is provided by the Caleffi Anti freeze valves which would open should the water circuit temperature fall to 3C or below, they can be seen on the video @ 2:08. This would only ever happen in practice if below 3C and a prolonged power cut. If that is more likely then anti-freeze would be mixed in the water circuit; down side of that is it reduces specific heat capacity, i.e less efficient at moving heat to radiators.
The defrost cycle works by pumping warm water from inside (this is where the 'volumizer tank' pays its way) back out to the heat pump to allow the evaporator (the radiator) on the heat pump to de-ice.
There are no back up immersions used in the U.K Daikins as far as I'm aware, they might only be required in cold climates where temperatures are regularly below 20C or so.
My unit is identical to this one (EDLA06E2V3). Yesterday for example it used 11.5 kWh to keep 2 bedroom semi cosy for 24 hours, living room 22C, bathroom 24C, the rest about 20 or 21C.
External temperature was down to 3.5C, averaged 7.2C for the 24 Hr period.
My HP tariff from British Gas is 14 p/kWh....
So not overly expensive at all, when all has been set as desired.
Thanks for the info. My immersion is controlled from my Eddie so I can heat with excess solar if I wish. However thinking about it, that makes no sense. 1kw of excess solar via the immersion is let’s say .95kw heat. 1kw via the heat pump = say 3kw of heat
@@JonathanTracey
Exactly that, and why I envy your Battery/Solar PV setup 😉
A future project for me perhaps.
As I found out a few years ago, it’s a rabbit hole that seems to be infinitely deep very fun to go down
Thanks for sharing this, got my install in January and hoping for the same success.
Did I spy an infrared heating panel on the ceiling of one of your rooms?
no, those are very low profile flat panel lights that give out a lot of light but don’t hang off the ceiling very far
So what happens if you switch off the heating, will it take another 2 days to reheat the house?
no it takes about 20 to 30 minutes to get back up to temperature. The only reason it took longer once we started the system for the first time is the house was very cold having not been heated for four days.
@@JonathanTraceyThermal mass dissipation runs at 8 times faster than gain, so the 20 30 mins is wishful thinking. These systems are great to run underfloor heating, but traditional wet systems are very inefficient. But as long as he is happy that's all that matters. Like most new energy, solar or heat pumps, is the payback period...or your trying to save the planet..
I like to think I am trying to save my wallet over a long period 15-20 years but if saving the planet is an offshoot then happy with the bonus :-)
Did they run out of clamps for the overpressure discharge ?
no why do you say that?
Great video thanks, my install looks suspiciously similar to yours had mine installed by Octopus in April, I did a quick tot up of how many guys they had doing mine and I’m 99% certain they have to be losing money on these installs, I agree Octopus were brilliant for anyone that’s thinking of using them
In the five day install I was without hot water for three days I think and heating for five - always happens in a cold snap the missus was not a happy bunny lol, though they did provide heaters so you can keep the important rooms warm and the house is definitely warmer now than when we had the gas boiler so I get brownie points for that now
I used to wear a dressing gown around the house when I had a gas boiler… no more need for extra layers now, nice and toasty all day and the towels on the towel rails are always bone dry
Was great to relive the experience watching your videos, I couldn’t believe how much work the guys do over the 5 days and how busy it was in the house that week, real scandal that these aren’t put in in new builds they’re such a faff to retrofit and so much good stuff gets thrown in the tip - bit of a government scandal really
Look forward to the next videos 👍
thanks i agree amazing team but given the labour it must be done at below cost or close to zero profit. i am sure they have a way to make it up on the back end. however nothing but praise for them
They will be fitted in new builds, gas boilers were barred in Scotland April this year, and I believe April next for England/Wales.
Presumably those that have already been approved before those dates will still go ahead after.
Yeah makes sense for new builds, however most new builds I see are rabbit hutches racked into blocks, not sure where you would put the heat pump and comply with building regs
Good to hear that you are pleased with the install, i will be following your updates with interest.
Great to see 2 happy faces....yours and Yogi 😀
Yogi is always 😃
This is interesting. I didnt know heat pumps could be used with radiators. Im from the US where central heating is often ducted, fan forced and gas fired. My parents had heat pumps. Ive experienced radiators that were steam provided byvgas fired boiler. We also have electric baseboard heaters too. I can only image how expensive baseboard heat can be!
most uk homes had gas boilers and they heat water for the radiators. the heat pump is a simple swap out for the boiler
electric heating is also used but expensive, central air is quite rare
Glad it all went well. I'm envious of the width you have down your side ally way for the HP. Mine's only 1m wide so regs prevent locating a HP there as it would be too close to a boundary (fence in my case). I have limited other places to locate a HP in either the front or rear garden that I would find aesthetically pleasing so this is currently the biggest barrier I have switching to a HP from a gas boiler.
yeah they said a meter in front of the unit was needed. as the side is triangular we had to move it back a little more than i would like but it’s not in sight lines so happy with location
I feel more positive about Heat Pumps now, but I would only consider it as part of a package that included Solar and a Battery otherwise, it is just so expensive and any possible savings would take over a decade to recoup. I am not convinced that if you have this kind of money available that this is the greenest use for it, the amount of CO2 saved compared to the amount spent doesn't make sense.
I think it only makes financial sense when you’re actually looking to replace an outdated or broken heating system. At that point it’s easy to justify we built our system up with solar and batteries over many years so the financial outlay of each part paid for itself before we moved onto the next so our Heat Pump is now looking at paying for itself in about five years. With regards to the CO2 saved every single device you buy is going to have inherent CO2 as part of the manufacturing however a heat pump running on clean electricity won’t generate any more CO2 during its life whereas a gas boiler will continue to add CO2 to the atmosphere every single day that you use it.
Looking forward to the Shelly install and HA integration :)
coming in about a week or so
Thanks for the videos as I'm waiting for and Octopus install in March. Could you tell me where the pumps are, do you have a seperate pump by the volumiser or just the one in the heat pump itself?
It’s just the d2 emergency pump, it will handle any issues, if something goes wrong 🤞
@@JonathanTraceywhat is a D2 emergency pump? Never come across anyone needing a pump before for issues to do with a heat pump install so is it something peculiar to your install, like the safety overflow pipe couldn't run to falls and needed to be pumped instead?
its an emergency pump as the cylinder is pressurised, should something go wrong a float valve in the pump will evacuate the pressurised cyclinder outside the building. Saves it flooding your upstairs with water at 2bar
@@JonathanTracey I have tried to find a "D2" pump that might be the one you are talking about and can only find a grundfos moderator pump. That would likely handle limited discharge from your cylinders pressure relief valve if you were unable to run the discharge to outside using pipes laid to falls, but would do nothing to empty your cylinder. In the event of any failure that needed the cylinder to be emptied that would need to be an incredible pump to offset mains water entering the cylinder at 2 bar, would have thought better and a lot simpler to have a solenoid valve to cut off the water supply going into the cylinder. Are you sure this pump isn't just dealing with the discharge from the safety valve as I said in my original post? Do you have the manufacturers details?
Not sure if D2 is the name or just what the installer called it, its the big silver box on the floor at the foot of the cylinder in the video
Hey, do you also have EV car charging at home? I'm just wondering if you had to have three phase upgrades carried out?
yes we have two EVs but rarely charge both at the same time. so we manage on-a single phase. i did look into getting three phase but was eye wateringly expensive
@JonathanTracey interesting, we're on single phase, have two EVs, but only one charger. There seems to be this thinking that to have car charging and a heat pump, you must have three phase. Obviously not in your case.
No, but I do have to be a little careful, otherwise I could easily exceed the 100 amp limit. However, we do have a rather large battery system which supplies most of the energy to the house. It’s only during the off peak periods where we’re pulling from the grid that I have to be aware of exactly what is scheduled to charge at what time? One of the ways I do this is to have my wife’s car charge at 3.6 kW.
The 90 degree angle coming out of the unit just looks wrong to my mechanical engineer brain.
Which angle, the town lagged pipes ?
@@JonathanTracey Video 2:07
So that was a compromise given we couldn’t move the Heat Pump to the left because it would’ve overhang the edge of the conservatory which would’ve caused other issues and we couldn’t move the pipes to the right in the attic because of an obstruction. So the best alternative was to hide the Change of angles behind the Heat Pump and hopefully nobody would notice :-)
Just wondering why you did not end up with a Cosy 6 rather than the Daikin? Was it offered? Did you have reasons not to have it?
And there is a lot of piping in your loft - is all of it due to the heat pump installation or is most of that for your showers?
I discussed it with my survey team and they told me that the weight for a cozy six was quite a long time. to be honest, I would rather have the Daikin, millions of these units have been installed there are very much unknown quantity whereas the cozy six is the first product from octopus and I’m not sure I want to be a beta tester with my heating system. Some of the piping in the attic is for the showers and a few other things so the team basically worked around that as they’re not allowed to touch any legacy plumbing unless they’re removing it.
Hi what size Daikin unit is this you have?
It’s a 6wk version - that’s 6kw of heat it can produce not uses 6kw
@ Hi thanks for the reply I am having a heat pump fitted by octopus in December and just a little concerned about the size as they are fitting the 4kw Daikin for me I live in a 4 bedroom new build property. Thanks for all your videos I know pretty much what to expect now.
I didn't know they did a 4kw version but so long as your heat loss suvey is correct it should be ok, hope it all goes well for you, get some warm clothes ready as a couple of days without heat in december will be chilly
😂 thanks for the advice 👍
No problems
We had a heat source pump installed a couple of years ago. It was turned off after a years use far to expensive. Have gone back to our LPG tank gas for central heating and hot water. We have saved ourselves at least 50% in money. Having tried it for a reasonable amount of time l have to say no thanks.
that's interesting to hear, my data and I only have 1 weeks worth at this point is its saving me money. I think to really maximise the savings you need solar and batteries as well, then you can really maximise it.
@JonathanTracey Yes l can see what you mean but at our ages all the upheaval it would entail to have all the extras and the added expense l am happy as we are. I just hope it works for you. Best wishes for the future
I fully get where you’re coming from. We’ve had a year of constant upheaval and I think with you a few weeks or months of quiet time now Best wishes.
I thought octopus were only installing their own heat pumps now, was this at your request to use the daikin?
no daikin are the standard, cosy 6 was an option but a long wait. i am glad as would rather let others beta test it :-)
@JonathanTracey.... that'll be me then!.....forever the pioneer 😂 it gets installed Monday
Love to hear about it, looks interesting but wife would never forgive me if it went wrong during the winter
One of the brokers who supply stuff they do not produce. Gas, Electricity. The only suppliers is Transco Gas and the Central Electric Generating Company. AL Brokers produce nothing but double the price they pay for you.
Sorry not sure i understand what your point is, yes gas is not something you can create yourself so your at the mercy of energy prices. At least with solar I can generate my own power
What flow temperature did they design your system at? I’ve got Octopus coming next week to survey my house, they pre-quoted only £4400, but I’ve had British Gas and Heat Geek both quoting around £14000 (all after rebate), so there has to be some level of compromise in the octopus system to get the price down so much.
mine was similar price after grant, are you sure heatgeek are applying for the grant on your behalf? flow temp is 50 at -7 degrees
Yes, before grant it was over £20K. They are very communicative though, and will go over the Octopus quote to advise me on any key differences and look at their quote as well. Key differences with them, they guarantee the SCOP they will achieve, and if it doesn’t they fix the system at their own cost. Plus I think the warranties on the equipment are a lot longer (they use Vailant). I f they build to a 40 (or may have been 45) degree flow temp they quote £21K, if they build to 50 degrees it was £18.5K Main difference is all the extra large radiators needed. Labour, is £8.5K to £10K alone depending on the flow rate. Rads, pump and new cylinder is between £5K and £7K plus another £3K for sundries….so it all mounts up,
Interested to see what they come back with after your survey
I’ve recently had a survey done, do you have a referral code I could use?
absolutely my code is 24607664613 thank you for using it, it’s greatly appreciated.
I would like to say I am with octopus highly delighted with them I don't want a heat pump mine would have to bee in my front garden also today 23 11 24 we had snow overnight there are power cuts near me I will stick to my multifuel stove as long as poss o yes I live in co durham if I am forced to go all electric there will always be a fire in my house this is just the start of winter I would suggest buy a generator and keep warm
Fully understand, I don't think heatpumps are for everyone, but I think they are an important option for a lower carbon future. I know the government are going to mandate them in new builds and stop installation of gas boilers but I hope we never get to a situation where its the only choice. I don't need a generator as we have sufficient battery storage to last many days and in the 27 years I have lived her the longest power cut was only a few hours.
I thought that the octopus heat pumps could work at up to 75 degrees radiator temperature, but yours is set at 33 degrees
The can run at higher temperatures but the heat pump is much more efficient at lower temperatures.
@@JonathanTracey do you know how much the efficency changes with different radiator TEMPERATURES?
Octopus infer it's only a few percent....
I will test once I get comfortable with how it works, it’s still a bit of a mystery
@@barryfoster453
My heat pump is the same as above, most of the year it does not need to run continuously, even coming into winter now that could still be the case if desired, also the temperature can be set back a bit if needed.
Nice and cheap to run (see my post further up).
The heat pumps insane or the hybrid?
Watched another video where the heating engineer said that heat pumps are not cheaper to run than conventional gas boilers. You have to install a solar and battery set up to make then cost effective. Don't forget that gas is far cheaper than electricity per kwh and that electricity is generated by burning gas. Heat pumps are not green and they are not cheaper. Who in their right mind would spend all that money installing a less efficient heating system. Heat pumps will never take off. Sorry, these are the facts.
no these are your opinions, different from facts. gas will never be green, even without solar your electricity can come from renewable sources like wind or a solar farm. Your heating engineer, does he by any chance fit boilers for a living? Strange he would be against heat pumps isn’t it.
@ChristopherLuke-o3l
You are wrong on most accounts, that is the fact.
1) my electricity tariff is 14p/kWh, on my HP with a SCOP of 4.3 to date that works out at 3.25p/kWh of heat; compare that to gas supplied @ 7.5p/kWh, in an 85% efficient unit that's 8.8p/kWh of heat. No Solar PV or Battery here.
2) In North Scotland the electricity is more often than not 100% renewable as Scottish government did not put a ban on onshore wind turbines.
3)Heat pumps are green after the initial CO2 payback for construction, my HP can be bought over counter and fitted by me (or anyone) for under £3k.
4) Gas is very inefficient with a COP of 0.9 at best for the elusive 90% efficient boiler. Heat pumps on the other hand usually have a minimum SCOP of 3.5, often much higher. In this instance you are correct in saying:- "Who in their right mind would spend all that money installing a less efficient heating system", yet many still insist on gas.
Heat Pumps have already taken off and have been used commercially over past 60 years plus in UK, many other countries have mature domestic heat pump markets, with UK really just starting.
No need for you to apologise, you appear to have been mislead by others.
There seems to be a correlation between heating engineers that install boilers and these spreading misinformation about heat pumps, coincidence?
So much misinformation in a single post, I'm really impressed.
@@JonathanTraceyhow can renewable energy been green when the parts are made and shipped over from china😂😂😂😂
Airt abairt thu
🤷
Would be cheaper to Burn £20 notes, still it will pay for itself when you've been in the ground for 10 years
not sure wheee your getting your numbers from, my electricity usage has gone up by about 15p a day and my gas usage has gone e down by £2.50 a day. so based on that alone (ignoring it will run off solar 90% of the year) it will pay for itself in 4 years
Who’s paid you to say such rubbish. When you need hot water there’s an immersion heater. How much is electricity compared to gas?
Maybe learn how heatpumps work before making yourself look a fool with this kind of comment. An immersion heater takes 1kw of power and creates about .9kw of heat from it. A heat pump takes 1kw of power and creates 4kw of heat. So its 4x as efficient as an immersion. #educationyoushouldtryit
How did you end up justifying the cost, on its own it will never pay itself back, even saving £500 a year (big if) that’s probably a 25-30 year payback. My solar and batteries paid themselves off in around 6 years. I can make it work as I use intelligent octopus go, and some clever scripting in home assistant to use almost 95% cheap rate electricity over the year, so I save about £2.3K a year already, but I really want to ditch gas so I’m prepared to pay the green tax to get there, but it’s not a blank cheque.
Given it only cost me £3700 it will pay itself off quite quickly. I power it from surplus power in my batteries so the running costs are effectively zero. my average gas bill for heating hot water and cooking including the standing charge was around £65 per month so it should pay itself off in about 4 to 5 years just on the gas savings alone. However, I didn’t justify it as a return on investment. My plan has always been to be a self self-sufficient as possible before I retire that way my pension won’t be at the mercy of a volatile energy market.
You have wasted your money
based on your vast knowledge? maybe justify your comments with some of your wisdom or just go away either is an option just please pick one.
Like l said plain a day you have wasted your money
What don’t you understand
Wasted or money
@@Van-1954 I’m confused why you think your opinions carry any weight with me
@ then don’t read them and why should your opinion mean any thing to me
All l said was you’re wasting your money
hmmm
Because you’re coming to my channel and posting your nonsense that’s why I read them. That’s why I reply to them. As I said every comment the matter how foolish drives engagement on my channel so that’s why I’m reading and responding. I’m still not any of the wiser why you think it’s a good use of your time to come here if the topic doesn’t interest you you don’t like what I’m saying And you’re just making yourself look like a fool
Heat pumps the future just like electric cars🙈🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣
I have two Ev’s and one heat pump, both are amazing 🤩
You are going to massively regret getting a heat pump
oh wise one, please tell me why or is this another baseless comment? Devoid of any actual information?
do keep posting your nonsense as comments help drive up my videos in the TH-cam algorithm so you’re more than welcome to keep posting them but don’t be surprised if you don’t get the response you’re looking for