Yes it ceased being the labour party when they forgot about the labourers and workers of this country....labour now is confined to the middle class university types in london
@Arfur Fuxxakes WTF are you talking about????? On what planet is the ERG fascist??? They are supported by huge numbers of LEFTY voters thicko. They simply want to leave the EU EXACTLY as the nation voted to do in 2016.
Jones : No, the blind and stubborn captain doesn't deserve to go down honorably with his ship. Before you would abandon the ship go find the captain and kick him off the ship so he could drown alone by himself and NOT have the honor of drowning on the ship he caused to sink. That is good justice for that bad captain.
I'm 31 years old and I can't say I have ever known of labour being a working class party to me. Even during the Blair and brown years when they were more successful they've always seemed to hold such contempt and different ideals towards their own target voter. Labour are just a londoner party now they have nothing in common with us up north.
Good job you have a Tory party stuffed full of millionaires, business and property owners who know where to stuff their fortunes and are good at avoiding paying any tax that just get's used up by those poor people who are not clever enough to escape a fire when their home is ablaze - they know what's best for the country and you poor folk up north!
@@richardphunt and yet somehow people up north now feel they have more in common with the Tories than the labour party. It's not our fault labour has nothing in common with working class voters anymore. Clearly labour has an 'image' problem.
Labour party is totally unelectable with their current stance on Brexit, policies and the shortlist of candidates for the leadership. I don't even know where to begin to highlight their problems including the party being taken over by Momentum. They no longer represent most of the working class particularly in the north.
@@RM-ml2xk I mentioned Peoples vote, nothing to do with tax. All I was saying is that the people had a second referendum and chose LEAVE. Channel4 are very lefty biased.
Starmer or Cooper are a safe pair of hands to try and stabilise the Party. I highly doubt they'll get back into power since they lost Scotland. It will even be difficult for Labour to reach hung parliament status.
I don’t really understand why having control of your boarder is a left or right wing issue. Having no control over your boarder seems like a bad idea regardless of your position. It would undermine wages and poses a security risk. Boarders exist for a reason
@Martin Baldwin-Edwards Calling people thick and uneducated is a sure fire way of getting them to vote for you. I salute your genius sir. It stumps me why that electoral tactic did not work for you this time around. Does it make you feel better to insult people that disagree with you?
you all probably dont give a damn but does anybody know of a way to log back into an instagram account?? I stupidly forgot my account password. I appreciate any help you can give me
@Jefferson Sean i really appreciate your reply. I got to the site thru google and I'm waiting for the hacking stuff atm. Seems to take quite some time so I will reply here later with my results.
@@Craig121000 lol. Kier Stamer is barely tolerable (still miles better than Corbyn) and Angela Rayner is insufferable and quite frankly highly unintelligent
I’d never vote labour, I’ve seen the people that follow labour and they want to take over the country. Anyone that has the interests of the British people first, get my vote.
When you say "British" you mean white British right? What you've said is that you looked at Labour voters, and based on how they look, you decided that they were "taking over"? You wouldn't say this if they didn't look like you. Also the flaw in your thinking is that thanks to English nationalism, most other parties do not put Britain first.
Roy Batty you can make any assumption you like my friend, it’s clear who labour are for, hence why they lost most if not all their northern seats. I’ve seen for my own eyes what is happening here as have countless northerners. The conservatives have seen it too, that is why they targeted northern towns. It’s not rocket science. Conservatives were tactical they saw this huge gap opening up and they went in and did what they needed to do. Conservatives puts British people first, labour have massively lost their way and I’ll tell you another thing. Unless labour change and I mean really change, they will lose the next election too. I’m patriotic or is that an offence these days?
tracy gallagher I don’t need to read any books to understand who labour are for, I’ve seen it for my own eyes. And it is this that formed my decision. 👍
@@tracygallagher4632 How is stealing from the rich successful job creators and wealth makers and handing it to the gutter life putting the British people first?
@Maid Subrena So you're reportedly left wing but side with right wing opinions? Explain that to me. Also, there are barriers to freedom of speech. You can't go in a cinema and scream "Fire!" because you will be criticised for it. Apart of freedom of speech is to show opinion but to also accept that you will be criticised harshly for it. Moaning isn't going to change that. The only defenders of freedom of speech seem to be right wing activists? Maybe because that's all you're looking at. Open your mind and look for yourself.
Labour are in the middle of an identity crisis. They don't know who exactly in society they are _for._ Those who are the left of Labour seem to be mainly concerned in ensuring they are full of righteous, pious anger, and those on the right are mainly concerned with not letting the left of Labour win. This election was a remarkable demonstration that neither side particularly understand the British public and until they remember that their job isn't to shape public opinion, but rather to listen to it, we're fucked. What was so pathetic about last election for Labour was that it seems that neither side tried to understand why they had been (relatively) successful in the previous one.
The main reason they were relatively successful was Theresa May. Now it’s Boris Johnson. Say what you like about him but he’s a brilliant campaigner with a clear view on Brexit and she couldn’t be more the opposite of that. And yet she still beat them, just...
Also what do you mean about Iran. He did work for Iranian Press TV. He defended them in the tanker fiasco. He can’t bring himself to criticise any evil regime that happens to identify as either on the left or Muslim unless it happens to be allies with the US, which is the real reason he makes an exception for Saudi Arabia. Israel is the only functioning democracy in the region but he’d rather support any of the oppressive Arab countries around it.
Why can't Rory accept that you can support Brexit and still be in the centre ground? He might see sense when he sees the results of Boris's one nation Tory policies.
@Martin Baldwin-Edwards You illiberal remoaners have learned nothing, still hate-preaching that anyone who disagrees with you is a loony extremist. As for the fat-shaming, not very woke - do you dabble in sexist and racist playground insults, too? Do you refer to Diane Abbott as 'Fatgirl'?
The results of Boris' one nation Tory Government are the surest of sure things. First the Scots will re-gain the Kingdom of Scotland's independence. As the actual, legal"United Kingdom", was constituted by the bipartite Treaty of Union that will end the bipartite United Kingdom leaving only the Kingdom of England. This will have but a short rebirth for the politically partitioned Kingdom of Ireland will reunify as the extended Republic of Ireland and the old Princedom of Wales, feeling left out will rescind the Statute of Rhuddlan leaving the Old Kingdom of England feeling like the rejected lover in a ménage de trroi
@Martin Baldwin-Edwards Fascist England?! There you go again, using words so intemperately that they lose their true meaning. It seems you're the crazed extremist here!
Don't worry .. when the boundary changes come in corbin's seat will be like him ... History ! The seat might get a footnote in the History pages Not sure about corbin Unless it's for the man who made the labour party unelectable !!!!
His voting record isn't particularly 'progressive', though, I agree he does seem like a nice chap, and is probably just a Tory by way of his privileged upbringing rather than an ideological lust.
@Shut Down And don’t forget the newspapers mostly owned by billionaires the Barclay Bros and Rupert Murdoch - couldn’t have done it without them either. We need those with great wealth and influence over us to inform us how we’re supposed to think. So I thank all these people for showing us the light
@@MightyJonE In short you are using the "voters are to stupid to think for themselves" argument! This Murdoch propaganda smear from leftist is clearly getting old. But keep continuing to use that argument, more sickened ears from former labour strongholds will continue to vote Tory since the underlying issues still will not be addressed by the Labour party as the message is still the same old propaganda!
@Kosgei No, it’s not that simple because nothing ever is. I don’t consider myself left-wing nor right-wing. I dislike such terms. There are good things about capitalism, there are bad things about capitalism. There are good things about socialism, there are bad things about socialism. People have many reasons for making one decision or a series of decisions over others. Propaganda in all forms from all sources is a very real problem, taking its form in many different ways, including the biggest of all - public relations. I’m certainly not implying that “people are too stupid”. It’s much more complex and, from the perpetrators of propaganda, much more insidious than that, yet wholly ordinary at the same time However, the birth of modern marketing and PR, the creation of Edward Bernays in the US in the late 1920s, is sadly predilected around the very fact that you, and I too, dislike - that of the manipulation of the public opinion of the “bewildered herd” as we, the general population, are seen. This is no secret, it’s in the literature, and it’s a constant belief of many who have power over us We have to be aware of it. So we must always question everything, even those things we hold so close to our beliefs. The only answer is to question, to educate ourselves, never take anything at face value. We, the general public, have the power if we so wish to control our own lives - nobody is born to have power over us - we ALLOW people to have power over us It’s important, above all, to live and aim for a society that reflects values of common human decency, of care and compassion, to help the weak, the poor and the less fortunate - what used to be called simple Christian values. Anything less is foolishness
The problem Labour had was that they were trying to court two groups of voters who were entirely opposed to each other in their goals. Prior to the early 2000's Labour had traditionally been the party of the working class in the north, hence the "red wall" and so forth but in the Tony Blair era they started to shift toward the more metropolitan modern city demographics, think academics and the "champagne socialists". Eventually they were going to have to choose between the two, because their aims were entirely conflicting and brexit was the catalyst event that drove this. One group wanted remain with further integration, seeing the European project as a positive guide to a better, more globalised and prosperous future. The other felt that it's policies on mass immigration, federalisation and industrial regulation meant that house prices were being driven out of reach of their children, their communities were changing rapidly and their wages were compressed and with the source of the perceived problem being remote, they had no power to change it. Moreover the people in charge of these changes didn't care about their concerns when they did get to raise them, even treating them with condescension. Come the December election the Labour party finally had to choose between their two demographics and they did. If you want to see how that turned out look at colour graded maps of constituencies before and after!
You're right on everything just written, but they won't listen, completely in their own bubble, neither understand or have any interest in deviating from their position.
Scott Taylor yeah, he’s basically a wannabe channel 4 ‘expert’. What a weak pathetic creature he turned out to be. He had promise, too, which makes it more pathetic.
@@SM-wn5hg Is that a witticism I'm not getting (he was a district governor trying to buy Democracy in Afghanistan wasn't he?)? He's had his oddly-shaped snout in every administrative trough around and he's utterly missed the boat (showing the same lack of judgement he showed when he went pilgriming around that same country and was lucky to live to write the tale).
@@SM-wn5hg Keep your hair on!!! Rory has been a professional bureaucrat for the most part. The attempt to impose democracy was a hugely expensive farce showing ignorance of that culture (Rory did okay out of it though). I was unaware of his military service which I respect - but the sumof all his paid jobs doesn't make him a super - patriot; politically he's quite the opposite. Rory's led a more prominent life than me but what's he accomplished exactly? You'd lose the bet - like Rory you're maybe not in touch with what the generality of Brits think or feel.
You are RIGHT Tony. I will give it to you STRAIGHT . Labour were very OBTUSE about their Brexit position and are now ACUTEly aware of what The Great British Public feel about them. That is it , in Degrees....That's my Angle , anyway... Good stuff , innit :
The one who appears like his mouth is being asked to accommodate more teeth than designed for? His name is Rory Stewart. Otherwise known as Florence of Arabia.
Pat McFadden’s point about labour not looking to the future but looking to the past (re-nationalisation, take private schools’ property ) was the nail in the coffin for me regarding the labour manifesto. Proved that Labour were motivated by blind ideology, rather than wanting to work for ordinary people.
Ideological purity and the maintaining of it is I believe of more importance to the current Labour leadership than actually winning elections. Much easier and more preferable for them to be a perpetual protest movement than be effective in opposition and keeping the government on it’s toes.
You're right man. Private schools are great British institution. It's a Darwin situation. If you can't afford to go to a private school, or afford private healthcare, then it's a sign that you are genetically flawed and probably not used to working hard. Poor people chose to be that way, as far as I'm concerned.
I do recall Rory Stewart during his leadership pitch stating that the EU would not budge from the deal that was on the table to May, because new 'knew' how the EU works, and thus any potential leader making noises to the contrary was madness, (he was very passionate about his belief on this), so listening to him hear, its as if he desired a hung parliament to justify his own leadership narrative.
Rubbish. The British moved their red lines and ditched the DUP. The negotiations were based on relating the British red lines to the principles of the single market, which won't change.
Gar Sm I can see you are a skilled debater, rubbishing the contra position to your own is a very persuasive and powerful way to get your point across At this stage we can agree to disagree on Stewart’s position, you say nothing changed re May’s Deal, your position is noted. I suggest that we both revisit this thread as the year goes on. What we can both agree on, is that Stewart did not win the Tory Leadership Contest. Whether we can agree on the fact that there are tens of ex Labour MP’s wishing they had rebelled against their party whip Re May’s Deal is another issue, I believe that there are, however it’s quite possible that your primary position is one of a contrarian, in which case, I would understand your position.
I recall Stewart enthusiastically backing May's deal on 'Politics Live' BBC2, then not backing Johnson's deal when Johnson took the leadership: They are fundamentally the same deal... And ironically the same 'May's deal' Johnson vehemently slagged off when he was writing his newspaper. They are all full of shite, regardless of there intellect ....of which Rory Stewart has in spades compared to Johnson.
@@PaulGappyNorris I do not profess, like you do, to have a handle on who is the most intelligent out of Stewart or Johnson, so I cant offer a considered view, nor did I suggest that Johnson was more intelligent than Stewart, so I can only conclude that you used this thread to answer a question that only yourself asked. Then there is the swearing. why is their a need to do this? The word 'fundamentally' is a very pliable word, Stewart was categoric that there was nothing more to be done with May's deal, so in my world, 'fundamentally' he was incorrect, that said, I understand your point, it is a similar deal, a deal which very nearly got passed, and which many ex Labour MP's will now wish they had backed, (hindsight is such a mystical beast). I would be very surprised if Stewart leaves an imprint on politcs when history is writen, he tries very hard to be totally centrist, which is admirable, however history will show that intelligent or not, he came nowhere close to being a challege for Johnson in the Tory Leadership Contest. Stewart does remind me of Blair in many ways, perhaps he would be well advised to switch patrties and try to make Labour slightly left of centre and reign in their grotesque shift to somewhat left of left wing, as the UK could do with a decent opposition to the Johnson Majority.
My pet-peeve is: "ACTUALLY". Talk about a word that has been repeatedly, needlessly use!!! Watched a politician on TV program use the word 7 times prior to making his point which was drowned in a sea of "actually's". I hear you on "SO" though.
Harold Wilson said the Conservatives are ruthless in getting rid of their leaders, when things are going wrong, and this was when Margaret Thatcher was at the peak of her dominance. He said Labour was too loyal to its leaders. Michael Portillo pointed out after the 2017 election, that people knew Corbyn could not win and could vote Labour safely, but when the next election happens and facing the same choice, the voters would reject Corbyn's Labour.
Instead we have Keir, Rebecca came 2nd, Keir moved the party to the right despite his pledges, the man on the left is now a minister. Corbyn was thrown out for no reason, Brown and Miliband both got less vote share but still in Labour. He was very popular in Yorkshire where we are huge crowds came to see him in 2017 and 2019. Brexit cost them the election in the most part Minister of Brexit for Labour was Keir Starmer so he is in part to blame now in 2024 he's trying to do the 1984 thing of re-writing history. Corbyn likely to win his seat back in Islington.
Pat McFadden hit the nail right on the head. Corbyn does not come across as being a patriot or loving his country. Now you can get into the intellectualism of what does it mean to be a patriot or have pride in your country (just land borders etc), but for a great many voters, a perceived pride of country is a huge element expected in a leader. Corbyn appears more apologetic of who we are. Boris on the other hand (even with it being mostly Hubris and theatrics) comes over as a huge patriot.
Somewhat true. But it's all decided by the media. The media decide elections. Blair won because Murdoch and The Sun supported him. And the press are most right wing on foreign policy, they're all viciously neocon, so Corbyn's positions are untenable to them.
""""""""Pat McFadden, who worked for Tony Blair in Downing Street and has been MP for Wolverhampton since 2005"""""" Doesn;t like Jeremy Corbyn....wow what a surprise.
Instead we have Keir, Rebecca came 2nd, Keir moved the party to the right despite his pledges, the man on the left is now a minister. Corbyn was thrown out for no reason, Brown and Miliband both got less vote share but still in Labour. He was very popular in Yorkshire where we are huge crowds came to see him in 2017 and 2019. Brexit cost them the election in the most part Minister of Brexit for Labour was Keir Starmer so he is in part to blame now in 2024 he's trying to do the 1984 thing of re-writing history. Corbyn likely to win his seat back in Islington.
Channel 4: why are you focusing on Labour? The Tories have won the election, do your job and report on what the government are doing and hold them to account!
Labour agreed to an election because even neutrals could see they were stymying parliament for their own ideological ends. They had turned parliament into an impotent talking shop. For an opposition to turn down the offer of a general election at any time is bizarre.
@@garsm2290 The only way Corbyn could beat Johnson was by not allowing the public a say. While ever they blocked democracy they were safe. Says it all about middle class Labour.
@@borderlands6606 Johnson is an old Etonian, so spare us that remark about class! Corbyn shouldn't have agreed to an election, there had been one two years earlier.
@@garsm2290 Johnson is a Tory! Labour are the party of the working class but the shadow cabinet outdo the cabinet for privilege and wealth. A titled lady, a woman who sends her son to public school, a leader from the Shropshire squirearchy, all living in 7 and 8 figure north London houses - give my bleeding heart a break. An opposition that doesn't agree to an election are scared of the electorate. The people aren't fools, much as Labour paint them as such. If they think a woman with a northern voice is going to set the clock back to 1945 or 1964, they're deluded.
It's nothing to do with the Labour party or Lib Dem party, policies or personalities. The fact is we have 17 million racists coming out of the woodwork and the English nation has to face up with that?
I think Rory's point is absolutely spot on. While Boris will see this as a ringing endorsement of his style of politics, it was against terribly misguided opposition. Labour and the Lib Dem's take on Brexit was bizarre. Swinson looked manic when she announced her policy of revoking A50... and of course the key part about them doing this if they got a majority just got lost. Corbyn offered a genuine alternative when both 'main' parties offered very little difference. But they opened themselves up by offering too much change, and while detailed, the vagueness of their take on Brexit after two years of parliamentary gaming, led to what happened. Oh, and also the repeated personal attacks on him personally by most of the media.
The trouble with Labour is that they never had a good leader, and Corbyn was one of the worst. Blair was elected because of his charismatic appeal, which again was lacking in dull Corbyn. I think that the charismatic appeal of Boris also contributed to his big win.
@@forza223bowe5 Yeah, Blair was immeasurably better than Corbyn - at being a right wing, neoliberalist shill - What's the difference between Blair and Corbyn ? Blair is a war criminal, a money grabbing narcissist - he is the one who should be in Belmarsh
Odd thing to say as Labour is the largest political party in Europe with over half a million members. Almost a thousand members in a little Somerset town.
Rory doesn't get it. Anti-immigration wasn't the centre in 1997. We've had over 100,000 immigrants NET every year since, even 300,000+ some years. The majority have ALWAYS been against this. The self-declared centre has shoved the real centre aside and declared it "the right" Clueless metropolitan posho.
The final nail in the coffin for Labour, in regard to Brexit, was when Emily Thornberry said she would negotiate a new deal with the EU, then campaign against that deal.
@Martin Baldwin-Edwards, thought I was ignoramus not clever although some do say I am too clever for anyone's good including my own 🤣😂. In the past remedials would have been slapped in iorns or canned wouls never have been helped near a pen! Oh forgot have been canned
Channel 4 has a target audience of 16-34 year old metropolitan young professionals - their presenters and guests are all selected to appeal to this group. It's unlikely they're ever likely to understand the thought processes of people in Clacton, Redruth, Wigan or Sunderland as this rather feeble attempt at "analysis" shows.
Is labour written off? Until they start listening to the people, then yes they are! So refreshing to see people with differing political views speaking in a calm rational manner.
Labour are written off until they start sucking up to Rupert Murdoch. The Sun has backed every successful election campaign since 1979. Ignoring what people want never did the Tory party any halm at all.
Thanks, not often you see a good sane and sensible discussion. Pat gets it, he knows what is wrong, Rory also understands, rare to see a good natured and sensible discussion.
@@iwanttocomplain in effect thats more or less what weve had for the past ten years or more.The difference between the two parties has been minimal.Oh yes much is made of these differences just to create the illusion of 'democracy ' for fools like you to suck up but the Brexit referendum exposed the whole lot of then..On all major issues there was no difference between them and both parties ignore the will of the people on all major issues like immigration and Islam plus free speech.Can you tell us just what are or have been these past ten years any major differences between them?
@@rogerwoodhouse7945 Corbyn's Labour party is very different to a Labour party headed by the usual suspects of centrist Blairites. New Labour was basically the Tory lite party and that is when the two parties were barely distinguishable. When the Labour electorate (not the leading membership) demanded their party not be lead by a typical career politician they made their feelings known that the Labour party should actually stand in opposition to the Tories and not just try to mimic conservative values for swing votes. The Labour manifesto for 2019 was the most progressive and liberal of all but the Greeen party. Corbyn is not a wealthy Eton graduate, he is a grass roots campaigner and sadly, a bit of a reluctant leader. He never got the millions spent on smoothing out his image like Tory's do and he lost because the Tory's, yet again won on an immigration ticket. Now with the left wing Corbyn faction a power within the Labour party there is actual opposition to Conservative neo-liberal politics and a manifesto as progressive as the one they put forward would not have been considered and likewise has altred the political landscape to even affect Tory policies to be more progressive to a degree as that is now a more centrist political platform.
@@iwanttocomplain That was a very long winded comment that said very little.It certainly shed no light on the future propects of the Labour party.Under Corbyn they had no chance of winning(isnt that what opposition parties try to do?)The labour party lost because of the lack of any positive (popular ) ideas .Lefty ideology wont wash with the British working man anymore.Electing Corbyn as a counter to Cameron was a big mistake.The British people began to despise Cameron for taking this country to the left.(gay marriage was not accepted by the masses inspite of the Media saying otherwise)No.Britain now needs a genuine right of centre government to restore the peoples faith in the present system.I personally would welcome a true right of centre party taking on this faux tory party.The labour party in its present condition should just wind up.Take a stepback .Rethink its whole Raison D'etre .Find a cerdible leader(theres non at present) and join up with the Greens.Become a 'vegitarian 'party .No.The British people deserve better than this joke of a parliamentary first past the post system packed with career poilticians who dont give a monkeys about this country.Perhaps now we are leaving the EU we just might get some real candidates who want the best for the people of this land.
'Huge gaping desire' for a centrist party!? Did Rory just witness a different election to the rest of us? Did Independent Group for Change win in his alt universe?
A great interview from two good politicians with different views but a heathy respect and commitment to our country and the direction it needs to take. We need more of this.
Labour lost the election by veering to the far left and ignoring the majority's wish to leave the EU, but what is worst than that is the fact that Corbynism will still exist in the party for the coming five years and as a result will devastate or finish the Labour Party.
One question ... why is Jeremy Corbyn still the leader of the Labour party? When David Cameron lost the Referendum, he resigned. When Theresa May was left in the corner ... she resigned ... Jeremy Corbyn seems to believe that he can influence the choice of who will replace him. Sack him. That is why you have a Deputy Leader, to take care of the Labour party during the leadership contest.
@@MrCaerbannog I didn't know that but still, Jeremy Corbyn should have resigned regardless. Get rid not asap but right now. Come in number 7, your time is up!
05:17 I fell off my chair laughing at the Labour guy saying.... "Ultimately we had the wrong person and the wrong programme"....oh is that all? A bit like a company saying " ...we had the wrong product and wrong CEO". Labour were frankly unelectable. Did they really think the British people would vote for a cabinet of Corbyn, Thornberry and Abbot. Why vote for people who secretly despise you and your culture and your nation. I am done with the left in this country. Untill they abandon PC culture they will not get my vote.
@@jonty612 Funny as the Labour party has just spend the last three or four years recreating the early 80's under Michael Foot! And 70's are great, I know I have one as a daily and I wouldn't swap it for a modern identikit plastic blob any day!
@@PeterTOrganist stop being a snowflake wasn't it your generation who profited from the destruction of UK industries in the 80s. Keep watching top gear. Your part of a selfish generation.
Why you are thick as sh*t- 1. Brexit supporters want a fair and equal immigration system for all. Whereas under EU law we are forced to discriminate in favour of a small group of predominantly white countries. 2. Brexit means we can control our external borders, just as the EU control IT'S external borders.
I think this misses the point. As an ex Labour party member, and newbie to UKIP, from a working class background, but uni educated, I think Labour have become unelectable for the following reasons, even if not known by name, people recognise the problems: 1. even though the Tories under T May have a shocking record on immigration, people fear Labour would be worse, 2. adoption of far left identity politics AKA intersectionality or cultural Marxism, led by e.g. Momentum, shown by a rabid support of issues either of no interest to working class and lower middle class people such as pro islam, pro arab Palestinian, pro LGBTxyz and pro 4th wave feminism, 3. these linked ideologies are often against working class concerns, 4. dilly dally on BREXIT, saying things like being neutral, but all along feeling many in Labour were (strangely as in other parties) were/are anti BREXIT. Despite the selfishness of the Tories, adopting Reaganomics and austerity and neo liberal economic (really Reaganomics), the Tories did not win the election, I think Labour lost it and have been losing it for over a decade. What concerns me is that the UK has become a single party state, which will probably result in the breakup of the UK.
Rory STIL thinks Brexit is anti-immigration. It maybe in the media and a small minority of hard right voters bit not from the centre. Its about CHOOSING who comes! When will he wake up and stop regurgitating this drivel?
@@blackphilip8936 Interesting you don't identify the UK itself as responsible for killing UK culture. For someone talking about history, you seem to know little of it. Scotland, Wales, and Ireland, all stripped of much cultural identity before any Brexit or mass immigration. Look no further than to Westminster for the eradication of British culture.
@Elizabeth Frantes That is a very good point and there is a good argument to reduce immigration. However, if they are people that will contribute to the economy and the tax income as well as pay their own way, instead of coming because the have an automatic 'right' to come and then the tax payer has to bare the cost of their housing, medicine and sustinance, then I would say there is not such an issue. Too many people know that the EU and the UK are a soft touch. Sounds harsh, but I lived in the developing world for 14 years. I know what people think. We have to stop being people pleasers and soft little helpers and stand up for ourselves,be proud of who we are and welcome the strong into our fold. We must help our own sick and weak and stop taking them on as a pet project. We help others by example, not by falling with them.
@@blackphilip8936 agreed. We should be proud of our culture. The destruction of British culture and the accusation of racism to anyone that flys the St Georges flag is disgusting. Nevertheless we may be welcoming to the right people, just as we choose this we invite into our homes on more than colour or gender. Rory wants a blanket invite to anybody that Angela Merkel wants us to 'help', regardless of their intentions. The UK does indeed have a multicultural culture. That is partly a consequence of going into the world and into so many other cultures in our past and then inviting them to work in the UK (since the 50s). This led to the great British curry for example. I am all for this kind of cultural exchange. I don't care who my dentist prays to, or whether he does or not, or what he eats or why, so long as he's a good dentist. I do care if instead of a good dentist, I have an extra tax bill for a homeless person that is freezing on the British streets because we are too soft to lead by example. The strong may help the weak, but first; be strong! Make Britain Great Again! 😂
I felt for much of this discussion Rory was the one in denial. A clever man no doubt but all too often on the wrong side of an argument. His political career is over.
why do they keep talking about how to keep the tories accountable? they should realize they lost the majority due to their own shortcomings and they have no mandate to keep the tories in line. the people/voters will hold the tories accountable. labour needs to shut their mouths and slink away in shame.
Nah, the country does benefit from an honest and effective opposition party. Labour isn't an honest or effective opposition at the moment, of course, but it would be good to have one. It's also good practice for them (if they are vaguely electable unlike the current lot), as happened when Thatcher>Major had pretty obviously run out of steam and centre-left Blair really looked like a better option - and was in his first term (pity about the rest).
@@Anti_Woke labour isn't honest? 0% of labour campaign adds / statements were fount to be false, where as 88% of conservative ones were, looks like labour is a far more honest party than what we have as a government. Unfortunately honesty doesn't seem to matter much in UK politics, after all we just voted in proven liars, if anything it seems like being honest and genuine is a disadvantage now.
Matthew Bentley ‘ The NHS is not for sale’ is a blatant lie. Sure the Conservatives lied but their lies didn’t actually win them th election. Labour’s campaign on the other hand was based in a lie
@@blancmull3886 really and what was that lie? And you don't think the get brexit done lie, or the not selling the NHS lie, or the increase the minimum wage lie, or the building 40 hospitals lie, or the getting 50,000 nurses lie played a role in helping the conservatives win?
Matthew Bentley They’re not selling the NHS. That was the main thing Labour lied about and you’re a complete fool to believe that is true without any evidence
At 16 minutes he talks about respect for the Constitution. As far as I'm aware Britain is not a constitutional republic and therefore does not have a constitution but rather a set of laws written through different and separate Acts of Parliament. Am I right or wrong?
Pat mc Fadden is the first Labour guy that seems to actually comprehend what has happened to Labour and what they need to do to become a viable party. However I’m sure his views and advice will be ignored. Good for us Torys but fair play to him. Nice to see a Labour MP who isn’t a complete lunatic.
![F.HERO Ft. JSPKK x ลำไย ไหทองคำ x M-PEE - ไม่สนิทบิดหมด (Thai Riders Anthem) [Official MV]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/kPJZ0UihBfk/mqdefault.jpg)
![[Live] : ONE 169 วันนี้!! "อนาโตลี vs อูมาร์"](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/IK3YZVWuFJg/mqdefault.jpg)
Yes it ceased being the labour party when they forgot about the labourers and workers of this country....labour now is confined to the middle class university types in london
I live in a hard labour area but as far as l am concerned there dead in the water from now on
Swings and roundabouts , Labour will come again
Not for a very very long time they wont and we prob be long gone by then 🤣🤣🤣 now lets get brexit done 😆
You'll change your mind. 😎
You mean an area that was historically hard labour. There are few left.
@mathew lawton well then
They should be, they have become an embarrassment.
Labour got hammered and I'm glad straight from the heartlands from a heartlander
Labour and Momentum should split and become two separate parties.
That’s easier said than done, either way; labour and momentum are two entities that cares very little about life outside of he M25
That would be the honourable, honest and decent thing to do. So no chance of it happening.
There should also be an Immigrants party or Muslim Party, which were the majority that voted Labour.
Well said! Momentum is basically communism.
@Arfur Fuxxakes WTF are you talking about????? On what planet is the ERG fascist??? They are supported by huge numbers of LEFTY voters thicko. They simply want to leave the EU EXACTLY as the nation voted to do in 2016.
If your ship is sinking and your captain is blind and stubborn then it's time to abandon ship, and that's what a lot of us have done.
Jones : No, the blind and stubborn captain doesn't deserve to go down honorably with his ship. Before you would abandon the ship go find the captain and kick him off the ship so he could drown alone by himself and NOT have the honor of drowning on the ship he caused to sink. That is good justice for that bad captain.
I'm 31 years old and I can't say I have ever known of labour being a working class party to me. Even during the Blair and brown years when they were more successful they've always seemed to hold such contempt and different ideals towards their own target voter. Labour are just a londoner party now they have nothing in common with us up north.
Good job you have a Tory party stuffed full of millionaires, business and property owners who know where to stuff their fortunes and are good at avoiding paying any tax that just get's used up by those poor people who are not clever enough to escape a fire when their home is ablaze - they know what's best for the country and you poor folk up north!
@@richardphunt and yet somehow people up north now feel they have more in common with the Tories than the labour party. It's not our fault labour has nothing in common with working class voters anymore. Clearly labour has an 'image' problem.
Labour party is totally unelectable with their current stance on Brexit, policies and the shortlist of candidates for the leadership. I don't even know where to begin to highlight their problems including the party being taken over by Momentum. They no longer represent most of the working class particularly in the north.
@@richardphunt Corbyn is a millionaire. His Islington house alone gets him 3/4 there!
England Expects semantics! Having a property that’s worth almost a million doesn’t enable a millionaires lifestyle- think more Philip Green!!
Channel 4 must be gutted. Well, you had your friggin' peoples vote guys. Love it!
Fact is Labour want the rich to pay more tax and they want tax loopholes closed. The Tories don't
@@RM-ml2xk I mentioned Peoples vote, nothing to do with tax. All I was saying is that the people had a second referendum and chose LEAVE. Channel4 are very lefty biased.
@@mosedavid1 my bad wrong comment chain
if Labours next leader is someone like Rebecca Long Bailey they are finished
Severely delayed is more accurate.
@chillguysplease And what of Diane Abbott? Or thicko Jesse Philips?
Starmer or Cooper are a safe pair of hands to try and stabilise the Party. I highly doubt they'll get back into power since they lost Scotland. It will even be difficult for Labour to reach hung parliament status.
All the half decent Labour MPs lost their seat!
In Salford she is commonly referred to as Wrong-Daily.
I don’t really understand why having control of your boarder is a left or right wing issue. Having no control over your boarder seems like a bad idea regardless of your position. It would undermine wages and poses a security risk. Boarders exist for a reason
Pamela this Man HAS had an education.
Just look at his name " Baldwin-Edwards" for proof. He is high class.
@curiosofsigns Yes, open borders and abolish citizenship!
what about millions of Britain's moved to other counties? I do not see them complaining. in 2011 I guess over a million british people moved to Spain
@Martin Baldwin-Edwards
Calling people thick and uneducated is a sure fire way of getting them to vote for you. I salute your genius sir. It stumps me why that electoral tactic did not work for you this time around.
Does it make you feel better to insult people that disagree with you?
@@muhtadaali8847
If they have any sense they will apply for Spanish citizenship.
no one person on Labour's front bench is capable or worthy of leading the party, they all need to go completely and take momentum with them!
What a sorry lot they are.
you all probably dont give a damn but does anybody know of a way to log back into an instagram account??
I stupidly forgot my account password. I appreciate any help you can give me
@Abram Kaysen instablaster ;)
@Jefferson Sean i really appreciate your reply. I got to the site thru google and I'm waiting for the hacking stuff atm.
Seems to take quite some time so I will reply here later with my results.
@@Craig121000 lol. Kier Stamer is barely tolerable (still miles better than Corbyn) and Angela Rayner is insufferable and quite frankly highly unintelligent
I’d never vote labour, I’ve seen the people that follow labour and they want to take over the country. Anyone that has the interests of the British people first, get my vote.
Then you should have voted labour. Please, read a few books before the next election.
When you say "British" you mean white British right? What you've said is that you looked at Labour voters, and based on how they look, you decided that they were "taking over"? You wouldn't say this if they didn't look like you. Also the flaw in your thinking is that thanks to English nationalism, most other parties do not put Britain first.
Roy Batty you can make any assumption you like my friend, it’s clear who labour are for, hence why they lost most if not all their northern seats. I’ve seen for my own eyes what is happening here as have countless northerners. The conservatives have seen it too, that is why they targeted northern towns. It’s not rocket science. Conservatives were tactical they saw this huge gap opening up and they went in and did what they needed to do. Conservatives puts British people first, labour have massively lost their way and I’ll tell you another thing. Unless labour change and I mean really change, they will lose the next election too.
I’m patriotic or is that an offence these days?
tracy gallagher I don’t need to read any books to understand who labour are for, I’ve seen it for my own eyes. And it is this that formed my decision. 👍
@@tracygallagher4632 How is stealing from the rich successful job creators and wealth makers and handing it to the gutter life putting the British people first?
Labour party should stop pacifying Religion of Peace or the party will be HISTORY....
@Maid Subrena So you're reportedly left wing but side with right wing opinions? Explain that to me.
Also, there are barriers to freedom of speech. You can't go in a cinema and scream "Fire!" because you will be criticised for it. Apart of freedom of speech is to show opinion but to also accept that you will be criticised harshly for it. Moaning isn't going to change that.
The only defenders of freedom of speech seem to be right wing activists? Maybe because that's all you're looking at. Open your mind and look for yourself.
Labour are in the middle of an identity crisis. They don't know who exactly in society they are _for._ Those who are the left of Labour seem to be mainly concerned in ensuring they are full of righteous, pious anger, and those on the right are mainly concerned with not letting the left of Labour win.
This election was a remarkable demonstration that neither side particularly understand the British public and until they remember that their job isn't to shape public opinion, but rather to listen to it, we're fucked.
What was so pathetic about last election for Labour was that it seems that neither side tried to understand why they had been (relatively) successful in the previous one.
The main reason they were relatively successful was Theresa May. Now it’s Boris Johnson. Say what you like about him but he’s a brilliant campaigner with a clear view on Brexit and she couldn’t be more the opposite of that. And yet she still beat them, just...
Also what do you mean about Iran. He did work for Iranian Press TV. He defended them in the tanker fiasco. He can’t bring himself to criticise any evil regime that happens to identify as either on the left or Muslim unless it happens to be allies with the US, which is the real reason he makes an exception for Saudi Arabia. Israel is the only functioning democracy in the region but he’d rather support any of the oppressive Arab countries around it.
Their for Islam and stupid brainwashed Uni students. That's what your average intelligent Brit understands when he thinks Labour.
@@harsimaja9517 May was the least successful leader we ever had stop talking nonsense.
@@h3akalee they were saying that the only reason LABOUR was successful in 2017 was because May was incompetent.
Why can't Rory accept that you can support Brexit and still be in the centre ground? He might see sense when he sees the results of Boris's one nation Tory policies.
@Martin Baldwin-Edwards You illiberal remoaners have learned nothing, still hate-preaching that anyone who disagrees with you is a loony extremist. As for the fat-shaming, not very woke - do you dabble in sexist and racist playground insults, too? Do you refer to Diane Abbott as 'Fatgirl'?
The results of Boris' one nation Tory Government are the surest of sure things. First the Scots will re-gain the Kingdom of Scotland's independence. As the actual, legal"United Kingdom", was constituted by the bipartite Treaty of Union that will end the bipartite United Kingdom leaving only the Kingdom of England. This will have but a short rebirth for the politically partitioned Kingdom of Ireland will reunify as the extended Republic of Ireland and the old Princedom of Wales, feeling left out will rescind the Statute of Rhuddlan leaving the Old Kingdom of England feeling like the rejected lover in a ménage de trroi
@@TheAuldBob Doubt Scotland will vote to stay in the EU and out of the UK. They'll see what's in their best interest once this Government gets going.
@Martin Baldwin-Edwards Fascist England?! There you go again, using words so intemperately that they lose their true meaning. It seems you're the crazed extremist here!
Which policies are those?
Laying siege to the NHS, worker's rights, benefits, schools, austerity. Standard Tory policies with a new label.
Channel 4's salty tears. 😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂
lol
I wish that Corbyn had lost his parliamentary seat to make it absolutely clear that his loony left politics could never form a British government.
No chance unfortunately. If there had been any chance of that he'd have been booted out years ago.
Think it's pretty clear.
There is a reason he holds the seat, maybe because he is leader of Labour or that he is very good at connecting with people?
He should consider a coalition with the Raving Loony Party. Maybe come to a compromise name - "Raving Lefty Party"?
Don't worry .. when the boundary changes come in corbin's seat will be like him ... History !
The seat might get a footnote in the History pages
Not sure about corbin
Unless it's for the man who made the labour party unelectable !!!!
Rory seems like a nice fella, but he's the very definition of a 'wet' Tory. So progressive I honestly think he'd have been better off in Labour.
His voting record isn't particularly 'progressive', though, I agree he does seem like a nice chap, and is probably just a Tory by way of his privileged upbringing rather than an ideological lust.
He's like a Blair clone from 97.
More like a Lib Dem
Soy boy Rory, clutching to his mami's communist apron strings
At least it works now, Rory will add the more progressive left input to the one nation Tory gov.
Weirdly worked out well lol
A big thanks to channel 4 for winning the election for Boris thankyou without you we wouldn't of won
@Shut Down And don’t forget the newspapers mostly owned by billionaires the Barclay Bros and Rupert Murdoch - couldn’t have done it without them either. We need those with great wealth and influence over us to inform us how we’re supposed to think. So I thank all these people for showing us the light
@@MightyJonE In short you are using the "voters are to stupid to think for themselves" argument! This Murdoch propaganda smear from leftist is clearly getting old. But keep continuing to use that argument, more sickened ears from former labour strongholds will continue to vote Tory since the underlying issues still will not be addressed by the Labour party as the message is still the same old propaganda!
@Kosgei No, it’s not that simple because nothing ever is.
I don’t consider myself left-wing nor right-wing. I dislike such terms. There are good things about capitalism, there are bad things about capitalism. There are good things about socialism, there are bad things about socialism. People have many reasons for making one decision or a series of decisions over others. Propaganda in all forms from all sources is a very real problem, taking its form in many different ways, including the biggest of all - public relations. I’m certainly not implying that “people are too stupid”. It’s much more complex and, from the perpetrators of propaganda, much more insidious than that, yet wholly ordinary at the same time
However, the birth of modern marketing and PR, the creation of Edward Bernays in the US in the late 1920s, is sadly predilected around the very fact that you, and I too, dislike - that of the manipulation of the public opinion of the “bewildered herd” as we, the general population, are seen. This is no secret, it’s in the literature, and it’s a constant belief of many who have power over us
We have to be aware of it. So we must always question everything, even those things we hold so close to our beliefs. The only answer is to question, to educate ourselves, never take anything at face value. We, the general public, have the power if we so wish to control our own lives - nobody is born to have power over us - we ALLOW people to have power over us
It’s important, above all, to live and aim for a society that reflects values of common human decency, of care and compassion, to help the weak, the poor and the less fortunate - what used to be called simple Christian values. Anything less is foolishness
@@MightyJonE and also a big thanks to people exactly like you, thankyou
@Inglejuice You are wasting your time trying to educate illiterates !
The problem Labour had was that they were trying to court two groups of voters who were entirely opposed to each other in their goals.
Prior to the early 2000's Labour had traditionally been the party of the working class in the north, hence the "red wall" and so forth but in the Tony Blair era they started to shift toward the more metropolitan modern city demographics, think academics and the "champagne socialists".
Eventually they were going to have to choose between the two, because their aims were entirely conflicting and brexit was the catalyst event that drove this.
One group wanted remain with further integration, seeing the European project as a positive guide to a better, more globalised and prosperous future.
The other felt that it's policies on mass immigration, federalisation and industrial regulation meant that house prices were being driven out of reach of their children, their communities were changing rapidly and their wages were compressed and with the source of the perceived problem being remote, they had no power to change it.
Moreover the people in charge of these changes didn't care about their concerns when they did get to raise them, even treating them with condescension.
Come the December election the Labour party finally had to choose between their two demographics and they did. If you want to see how that turned out look at colour graded maps of constituencies before and after!
You're right on everything just written, but they won't listen, completely in their own bubble, neither understand or have any interest in deviating from their position.
Rory interviews with Channel 4 so much, his recollections of major events are now that he was on his way to a Channel 4 interview at the time.
Scott Taylor 😂😂
Scott Taylor yeah, he’s basically a wannabe channel 4 ‘expert’. What a weak pathetic creature he turned out to be. He had promise, too, which makes it more pathetic.
@@SM-wn5hg Is that a witticism I'm not getting (he was a district governor trying to buy Democracy in Afghanistan wasn't he?)? He's had his oddly-shaped snout in every administrative trough around and he's utterly missed the boat (showing the same lack of judgement he showed when he went pilgriming around that same country and was lucky to live to write the tale).
@@SM-wn5hg Keep your hair on!!! Rory has been a professional bureaucrat for the most part. The attempt to impose democracy was a hugely expensive farce showing ignorance of that culture (Rory did okay out of it though). I was unaware of his military service which I respect - but the sumof all his paid jobs doesn't make him a super - patriot; politically he's quite the opposite. Rory's led a more prominent life than me but what's he accomplished exactly? You'd lose the bet - like Rory you're maybe not in touch with what the generality of Brits think or feel.
Labour has always been about envy and greed. It's just a question of degrees. Right now they are so greedy and envious no one takes them serious.
You are RIGHT Tony. I will give it to you STRAIGHT . Labour were very OBTUSE about their Brexit position and are now ACUTEly aware of what The Great British Public feel about them. That is it , in Degrees....That's my Angle , anyway...
Good stuff , innit :
What a load of nonsense
Written off they should be in the Scrapyard!
The guy on the right DOES NOT get it.
The one who appears like his mouth is being asked to accommodate more teeth than designed for? His name is Rory Stewart. Otherwise known as Florence of Arabia.
Pat McFadden’s point about labour not looking to the future but looking to the past (re-nationalisation, take private schools’ property ) was the nail in the coffin for me regarding the labour manifesto. Proved that Labour were motivated by blind ideology, rather than wanting to work for ordinary people.
David Roberts Well said Sir!
Ideological purity and the maintaining of it is I believe of more importance to the current Labour leadership than actually winning elections. Much easier and more preferable for them to be a perpetual protest movement than be effective in opposition and keeping the government on it’s toes.
Say that again, but this time instead put 'Tories' instead of labour
@Alvida Hamesha , I hope Robert is reading this the next time he catches a train ,and think carefully on about what else you said.
You're right man.
Private schools are great British institution.
It's a Darwin situation. If you can't afford to go to a private school, or afford private healthcare, then it's a sign that you are genetically flawed and probably not used to working hard.
Poor people chose to be that way, as far as I'm concerned.
I do recall Rory Stewart during his leadership pitch stating that the EU would not budge from the deal that was on the table to May, because new 'knew' how the EU works, and thus any potential leader making noises to the contrary was madness, (he was very passionate about his belief on this), so listening to him hear, its as if he desired a hung parliament to justify his own leadership narrative.
Rubbish. The British moved their red lines and ditched the DUP. The negotiations were based on relating the British red lines to the principles of the single market, which won't change.
Gar Sm I can see you are a skilled debater, rubbishing the contra position to your own is a very persuasive and powerful way to get your point across
At this stage we can agree to disagree on Stewart’s position, you say nothing changed re May’s Deal, your position is noted.
I suggest that we both revisit this thread as the year goes on.
What we can both agree on, is that Stewart did not win the Tory Leadership Contest.
Whether we can agree on the fact that there are tens of ex Labour MP’s wishing they had rebelled against their party whip Re May’s Deal is another issue, I believe that there are, however it’s quite possible that your primary position is one of a contrarian, in which case, I would understand your position.
I recall Stewart enthusiastically backing May's deal on 'Politics Live' BBC2, then not backing Johnson's deal when Johnson took the leadership: They are fundamentally the same deal... And ironically the same 'May's deal' Johnson vehemently slagged off when he was writing his newspaper.
They are all full of shite, regardless of there intellect ....of which Rory Stewart has in spades compared to Johnson.
@@PaulGappyNorris I do not profess, like you do, to have a handle on who is the most intelligent out of Stewart or Johnson, so I cant offer a considered view, nor did I suggest that Johnson was more intelligent than Stewart, so I can only conclude that you used this thread to answer a question that only yourself asked.
Then there is the swearing. why is their a need to do this?
The word 'fundamentally' is a very pliable word, Stewart was categoric that there was nothing more to be done with May's deal, so in my world, 'fundamentally' he was incorrect, that said, I understand your point, it is a similar deal, a deal which very nearly got passed, and which many ex Labour MP's will now wish they had backed, (hindsight is such a mystical beast).
I would be very surprised if Stewart leaves an imprint on politcs when history is writen, he tries very hard to be totally centrist, which is admirable, however history will show that intelligent or not, he came nowhere close to being a challege for Johnson in the Tory Leadership Contest.
Stewart does remind me of Blair in many ways, perhaps he would be well advised to switch patrties and try to make Labour slightly left of centre and reign in their grotesque shift to somewhat left of left wing, as the UK could do with a decent opposition to the Johnson Majority.
@@PaulGappyNorris Johnson voted both for and against the May deal.
Wrong leader, wrong policies and the wrong side of democracy, that why Labour failed.
Once Labour chose mass immigration, multi culturalism and welfare over patriotism and hard working, aspirational people, they were finished
you are aware that boris is turkish you fool
@@jundean5292 Relevant how?
@@TonyFisherPuzzles initial comment was about immigration
boris is an immigrant lol
Channel 4 is not biased one bit, definitely not biased. 100% sure it isn't biased.
You can't keep a prime minister from governing then not let them call an election. That is the epitome of sleazy.
Has anybody noticed how all interviewees start with SO these days when making a comment - it drives me mad !!!!
Only loonie lefites start a sentence with ......so.
My pet-peeve is: "ACTUALLY". Talk about a word that has been repeatedly, needlessly use!!! Watched a politician on TV program use the word 7 times prior to making his point which was drowned in a sea of "actually's". I hear you on "SO" though.
@Ian Payne Really! Obviously! Always those that are not used to talking to camera use 'so', noticed the prevalence of this years ago, innit!
Yes, so is no way to start a sentence. So is actually a conjunction.
Is Rory Stewart strong enough to lift that cup of tea up?
Harold Wilson said the Conservatives are ruthless in getting rid of their leaders, when things are going wrong, and this was when Margaret Thatcher was at the peak of her dominance. He said Labour was too loyal to its leaders.
Michael Portillo pointed out after the 2017 election, that people knew Corbyn could not win and could vote Labour safely, but when the next election happens and facing the same choice, the voters would reject Corbyn's Labour.
Instead we have Keir, Rebecca came 2nd, Keir moved the party to the right despite his pledges, the man on the left is now a minister. Corbyn was thrown out for no reason, Brown and Miliband both got less vote share but still in Labour. He was very popular in Yorkshire where we are huge crowds came to see him in 2017 and 2019. Brexit cost them the election in the most part Minister of Brexit for Labour was Keir Starmer so he is in part to blame now in 2024 he's trying to do the 1984 thing of re-writing history. Corbyn likely to win his seat back in Islington.
Every day in which Jeeza continues to be Leader is a day Labour cannot begin to rebuild itself.
Pat McFadden hit the nail right on the head. Corbyn does not come across as being a patriot or loving his country. Now you can get into the intellectualism of what does it mean to be a patriot or have pride in your country (just land borders etc), but for a great many voters, a perceived pride of country is a huge element expected in a leader. Corbyn appears more apologetic of who we are. Boris on the other hand (even with it being mostly Hubris and theatrics) comes over as a huge patriot.
Somewhat true.
But it's all decided by the media. The media decide elections. Blair won because Murdoch and The Sun supported him. And the press are most right wing on foreign policy, they're all viciously neocon, so Corbyn's positions are untenable to them.
""""""""Pat McFadden, who worked for Tony Blair in Downing Street and has been MP for Wolverhampton since 2005"""""" Doesn;t like Jeremy Corbyn....wow what a surprise.
Instead we have Keir, Rebecca came 2nd, Keir moved the party to the right despite his pledges, the man on the left is now a minister. Corbyn was thrown out for no reason, Brown and Miliband both got less vote share but still in Labour. He was very popular in Yorkshire where we are huge crowds came to see him in 2017 and 2019. Brexit cost them the election in the most part Minister of Brexit for Labour was Keir Starmer so he is in part to blame now in 2024 he's trying to do the 1984 thing of re-writing history. Corbyn likely to win his seat back in Islington.
Channel 4: why are you focusing on Labour? The Tories have won the election, do your job and report on what the government are doing and hold them to account!
@K MT Yep, sell the BBC to Rupert Murdock...
SSHHHHH!
Antisemitism
Corbyn
Momentum
No news on Boris Ssshhhhh!
35 minutes just to say "we were rubbish"
Labour agreed to an election because even neutrals could see they were stymying parliament for their own ideological ends. They had turned parliament into an impotent talking shop. For an opposition to turn down the offer of a general election at any time is bizarre.
Labour should have left Johnson on the hook. He was shagged.
@@garsm2290 The only way Corbyn could beat Johnson was by not allowing the public a say. While ever they blocked democracy they were safe. Says it all about middle class Labour.
@@borderlands6606 Johnson is an old Etonian, so spare us that remark about class! Corbyn shouldn't have agreed to an election, there had been one two years earlier.
@@garsm2290 Johnson is a Tory! Labour are the party of the working class but the shadow cabinet outdo the cabinet for privilege and wealth. A titled lady, a woman who sends her son to public school, a leader from the Shropshire squirearchy, all living in 7 and 8 figure north London houses - give my bleeding heart a break.
An opposition that doesn't agree to an election are scared of the electorate. The people aren't fools, much as Labour paint them as such. If they think a woman with a northern voice is going to set the clock back to 1945 or 1964, they're deluded.
@Megan B Any [arty that chooses geeky Ed over David Milliband deserves all they get. IDIOTS !
The Labour party's open door policy was there biggest mistake.
It's nothing to do with the Labour party or Lib Dem party, policies or personalities. The fact is we have 17 million racists coming out of the woodwork and the English nation has to face up with that?
@@ernestoguevara8930 The word racist has been used so many times out of context it is now meaningless.
@@richiesquest3283 OK, right wing extremists and dreamers then, will that do?
The world of communication is controlled by 100s of millions of individuals not national self interest groups. Labour must change or die.
@Luke Grabbing at straws in the wind. Everyone at fault but thenselves
I GUESS THIS TIME WE REALLY REALLY REALLY KNEW WHAT WE WERE VOTING FOR!!!!!
I think Rory's point is absolutely spot on. While Boris will see this as a ringing endorsement of his style of politics, it was against terribly misguided opposition. Labour and the Lib Dem's take on Brexit was bizarre.
Swinson looked manic when she announced her policy of revoking A50... and of course the key part about them doing this if they got a majority just got lost.
Corbyn offered a genuine alternative when both 'main' parties offered very little difference. But they opened themselves up by offering too much change, and while detailed, the vagueness of their take on Brexit after two years of parliamentary gaming, led to what happened. Oh, and also the repeated personal attacks on him personally by most of the media.
Hopefully it is written off, because it has become dangerous......
Reasons to be cheerful : the virus that is momentum is proly gonna destroy its host
Stop funding channel 4 from taxpayers
Thought they had adverts?
Like an old 1970s car. Just write off Corbyn.
@Jack Didley Then he'd be Corbin!
Hope so.
Rory Stewart misjudged were the centre ground was - true.
I don't understand labour, it's MPs or their policies anymore.
The trouble with Labour is that they never had a good leader, and Corbyn was one of the worst. Blair was elected because of his charismatic appeal, which again was lacking in dull Corbyn. I think that the charismatic appeal of Boris also contributed to his big win.
They did, but he died suddenly on 12 May 1994 - since then, it has all gone to pot.
icdgyixify Tony Blair was much better than Corbyn.
@@forza223bowe5 Yeah, Blair was immeasurably better than Corbyn - at being a right wing, neoliberalist shill - What's the difference between Blair and Corbyn ? Blair is a war criminal, a money grabbing narcissist - he is the one who should be in Belmarsh
The labor party is history.
Odd thing to say as Labour is the largest political party in Europe with over half a million members. Almost a thousand members in a little Somerset town.
@@stevemacarthur9657 yeah helps loads 🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣
Rory doesn't get it.
Anti-immigration wasn't the centre in 1997. We've had over 100,000 immigrants NET every year since, even 300,000+ some years. The majority have ALWAYS been against this.
The self-declared centre has shoved the real centre aside and declared it "the right"
Clueless metropolitan posho.
The final nail in the coffin for Labour, in regard to Brexit, was when Emily Thornberry said she would negotiate a new deal with the EU, then campaign against that deal.
At that point, they were fully displayed as a bunch of delusional hypocrites with no idea how to form a credible policy
I’m not sure Rory ever really was a conservative
“Remember that taste of defeat”. It looks like the Labour Party can taste only defeat.
Its no longer the Labour party- End of-......
Labour Party and Corbyn don't know the word Deniel they think De Nile is a river in Africa 😂🤣😂😂
@Martin Baldwin-Edwards, 😂🤣😂😂 that's coz I is dislexix 🤣😂😂🤣
@cs8780 at least I can laugh at myself 😉
@Alvida Hamesha no point! That's like saying I might want to be someone else
@Martin Baldwin-Edwards, thought I was ignoramus not clever although some do say I am too clever for anyone's good including my own 🤣😂. In the past remedials would have been slapped in iorns or canned wouls never have been helped near a pen! Oh forgot have been canned
@@112deeps but the question is "do you get the joke" ?
I used to like Rory Stewart but listening to him here he sounds more like a labour politician than a conservative
Labour cannot connect with British working class peoples concerns on immigration and love of country
since 2010 the Tories was in power and immigration increased this is how lazy people excuses.
@@MohamedAhmed-yf6wp , The Tories couldn't control immigration from the European union, its called free movement, you donut
@@thethirdman2135 hhhh I am not donut I am mars bar
They didn't even control immigration from outside the eu
@@tracygallagher4632 Yes they do.
Channel 4 has a target audience of 16-34 year old metropolitan young professionals - their presenters and guests are all selected to appeal to this group. It's unlikely they're ever likely to understand the thought processes of people in Clacton, Redruth, Wigan or Sunderland as this rather feeble attempt at "analysis" shows.
Is labour written off? Until they start listening to the people, then yes they are! So refreshing to see people with differing political views speaking in a calm rational manner.
Labour are written off until they start sucking up to Rupert Murdoch. The Sun has backed every successful election campaign since 1979. Ignoring what people want never did the Tory party any halm at all.
@@ricardothorburn4089 I will never understand why any self respecting working class person would read that 'news' paper
Thanks, not often you see a good sane and sensible discussion. Pat gets it, he knows what is wrong, Rory also understands, rare to see a good natured and sensible discussion.
The Labour party now has no reason to exist.
I agree. We should have a 1 party state run by ruling class like god intended. I'm going to campaign for a return to monarchy.
@@iwanttocomplain in effect thats more or less what weve had for the past ten years or more.The difference between the two parties has been minimal.Oh yes much is made of these differences just to create the illusion of 'democracy ' for fools like you to suck up but the Brexit referendum exposed the whole lot of then..On all major issues there was no difference between them and both parties ignore the will of the people on all major issues like immigration and Islam plus free speech.Can you tell us just what are or have been these past ten years any major differences between them?
@@rogerwoodhouse7945 Corbyn's Labour party is very different to a Labour party headed by the usual suspects of centrist Blairites. New Labour was basically the Tory lite party and that is when the two parties were barely distinguishable. When the Labour electorate (not the leading membership) demanded their party not be lead by a typical career politician they made their feelings known that the Labour party should actually stand in opposition to the Tories and not just try to mimic conservative values for swing votes.
The Labour manifesto for 2019 was the most progressive and liberal of all but the Greeen party. Corbyn is not a wealthy Eton graduate, he is a grass roots campaigner and sadly, a bit of a reluctant leader. He never got the millions spent on smoothing out his image like Tory's do and he lost because the Tory's, yet again won on an immigration ticket.
Now with the left wing Corbyn faction a power within the Labour party there is actual opposition to Conservative neo-liberal politics and a manifesto as progressive as the one they put forward would not have been considered and likewise has altred the political landscape to even affect Tory policies to be more progressive to a degree as that is now a more centrist political platform.
@@iwanttocomplain That was a very long winded comment that said very little.It certainly shed no light on the future propects of the Labour party.Under Corbyn they had no chance of winning(isnt that what opposition parties try to do?)The labour party lost because of the lack of any positive (popular ) ideas .Lefty ideology wont wash with the British working man anymore.Electing Corbyn as a counter to Cameron was a big mistake.The British people began to despise Cameron for taking this country to the left.(gay marriage was not accepted by the masses inspite of the Media saying otherwise)No.Britain now needs a genuine right of centre government to restore the peoples faith in the present system.I personally would welcome a true right of centre party taking on this faux tory party.The labour party in its present condition should just wind up.Take a stepback .Rethink its whole Raison D'etre .Find a cerdible leader(theres non at present) and join up with the Greens.Become a 'vegitarian 'party .No.The British people deserve better than this joke of a parliamentary first past the post system packed with career poilticians who dont give a monkeys about this country.Perhaps now we are leaving the EU we just might get some real candidates who want the best for the people of this land.
Were you suggesting that Corbyn'was NOT 'career politician??
It came back 35 years ago, it will come back again.
'Huge gaping desire' for a centrist party!? Did Rory just witness a different election to the rest of us? Did Independent Group for Change win in his alt universe?
they were a bunch of remainers
@@mdrocks7842 He would have fitted in very nicely.
Yes, for a very long time.
Rory get yourself a burger and stop with that soy.
heroin nod
You know, he was probably a spy.
I bet he's an athletic guy.
@@scinformation7229 is it possible to be trans AND working class?
But phytoestrogens may help with his menopause.
@@scinformation7229 what aspect of the Tory party is for the poor?
I voted against the party I trusted the least. call it "damage limitation"
It all sounds like people talking in a hushed morgue.
A great interview from two good politicians with different views but a heathy respect and commitment to our country and the direction it needs to take. We need more of this.
Rory Stewart gives the impression he has taken massive amounts of drugs.
Labour lost the election by veering to the far left and ignoring the majority's wish to leave the EU, but what is worst than that is the fact that Corbynism will still exist in the party for the coming five years and as a result will devastate or finish the Labour Party.
Get Diane Abbott to succeed Comrade Steptoe... that'll be the end of the discussion.
Haaaa ah Haaaa haaaaa Haa Haaaa Haa has aah ahhha haaa.. Wait who is steptoe? OK boomer
@@jonty612 He's the bin dipping boomer you wanted Prime Minister.
@@nickrad6966? I'm UKIP me
Rory for Mayor of London !
No
looes74 looes74 whose your candidate?
I've gone Tory now. It felt good actually.
One question ... why is Jeremy Corbyn still the leader of the Labour party? When David Cameron lost the Referendum, he resigned. When Theresa May was left in the corner ... she resigned ... Jeremy Corbyn seems to believe that he can influence the choice of who will replace him. Sack him. That is why you have a Deputy Leader, to take care of the Labour party during the leadership contest.
Except that Tom Watson jumped ship at the election, so there isn't currently a deputy leader either.
@@MrCaerbannog I didn't know that but still, Jeremy Corbyn should have resigned regardless. Get rid not asap but right now. Come in number 7, your time is up!
With their new far left policies, yes.
*Yes.*
None of these three men provided any worthwhile insight
Good interview from 2 politicians who have been sidelined to the detriment of the UK's voters.
Not really.
Rory Stewart what a drip
The Labour party used to be a working class party they are now regarded by many as a ethnic party and hence their disastrous election campaign.
“Daddy,when I grow up I want to be a socialist “
“Sorry son, you can’t do both “ 🇬🇧
We need a viable opposition party to the Tories but I fear Labour went woke and broke.
Two good politicians speaking interestingly. Another excellent interview by Gary and C4.
05:17 I fell off my chair laughing at the Labour guy saying.... "Ultimately we had the wrong person and the wrong programme"....oh is that all? A bit like a company saying " ...we had the wrong product and wrong CEO". Labour were frankly unelectable. Did they really think the British people would vote for a cabinet of Corbyn, Thornberry and Abbot. Why vote for people who secretly despise you and your culture and your nation. I am done with the left in this country. Untill they abandon PC culture they will not get my vote.
Until they shed the momentum crazies, yes.
OK boomer there is no time machine to 1979. The cars weren't that good then anyway
@@jonty612 Funny as the Labour party has just spend the last three or four years recreating the early 80's under Michael Foot! And 70's are great, I know I have one as a daily and I wouldn't swap it for a modern identikit plastic blob any day!
@@PeterTOrganist stop being a snowflake wasn't it your generation who profited from the destruction of UK industries in the 80s. Keep watching top gear. Your part of a selfish generation.
@@jonty612 keep the salt flowing flower.
@@grantmathieson650 OK boomer. 20 years from now that torch you hold will have burnt out forever.
Hope so
Hopefully Channel 4 will be written off.
Pat spoke alot of sense for sure !!
Who'd have thought racism would unite the country behind Boris?
I trust you mean the country south of the river Tweed and Cheviot Hills
@@derekphilips6781 Can't be bothered with Scottish, or English nationalism.
Why you are thick as sh*t-
1. Brexit supporters want a fair and equal immigration system for all. Whereas under EU law we are forced to discriminate in favour of a small group of predominantly white countries.
2. Brexit means we can control our external borders, just as the EU control IT'S external borders.
Clearly - it has.
@@TonyFisherPuzzles Your opening statement is a perfect description of yourself
You can't run a political party, how do you expect to run a country.
Rory Stewart is creepy.
I think this misses the point. As an ex Labour party member, and newbie to UKIP, from a working class background, but uni educated, I think Labour have become unelectable for the following reasons, even if not known by name, people recognise the problems: 1. even though the Tories under T May have a shocking record on immigration, people fear Labour would be worse, 2. adoption of far left identity politics AKA intersectionality or cultural Marxism, led by e.g. Momentum, shown by a rabid support of issues either of no interest to working class and lower middle class people such as pro islam, pro arab Palestinian, pro LGBTxyz and pro 4th wave feminism, 3. these linked ideologies are often against working class concerns, 4. dilly dally on BREXIT, saying things like being neutral, but all along feeling many in Labour were (strangely as in other parties) were/are anti BREXIT. Despite the selfishness of the Tories, adopting Reaganomics and austerity and neo liberal economic (really Reaganomics), the Tories did not win the election, I think Labour lost it and have been losing it for over a decade. What concerns me is that the UK has become a single party state, which will probably result in the breakup of the UK.
Rory STIL thinks Brexit is anti-immigration. It maybe in the media and a small minority of hard right voters bit not from the centre. Its about CHOOSING who comes! When will he wake up and stop regurgitating this drivel?
@@blackphilip8936 Interesting you don't identify the UK itself as responsible for killing UK culture. For someone talking about history, you seem to know little of it. Scotland, Wales, and Ireland, all stripped of much cultural identity before any Brexit or mass immigration. Look no further than to Westminster for the eradication of British culture.
@Elizabeth Frantes That is a very good point and there is a good argument to reduce immigration. However, if they are people that will contribute to the economy and the tax income as well as pay their own way, instead of coming because the have an automatic 'right' to come and then the tax payer has to bare the cost of their housing, medicine and sustinance, then I would say there is not such an issue. Too many people know that the EU and the UK are a soft touch. Sounds harsh, but I lived in the developing world for 14 years. I know what people think. We have to stop being people pleasers and soft little helpers and stand up for ourselves,be proud of who we are and welcome the strong into our fold. We must help our own sick and weak and stop taking them on as a pet project. We help others by example, not by falling with them.
@@blackphilip8936 agreed. We should be proud of our culture. The destruction of British culture and the accusation of racism to anyone that flys the St Georges flag is disgusting. Nevertheless we may be welcoming to the right people, just as we choose this we invite into our homes on more than colour or gender. Rory wants a blanket invite to anybody that Angela Merkel wants us to 'help', regardless of their intentions. The UK does indeed have a multicultural culture. That is partly a consequence of going into the world and into so many other cultures in our past and then inviting them to work in the UK (since the 50s). This led to the great British curry for example. I am all for this kind of cultural exchange. I don't care who my dentist prays to, or whether he does or not, or what he eats or why, so long as he's a good dentist. I do care if instead of a good dentist, I have an extra tax bill for a homeless person that is freezing on the British streets because we are too soft to lead by example. The strong may help the weak, but first; be strong! Make Britain Great Again! 😂
So the Tory goverment will choose? Cleaners for Johnson, Farage and so on ... what else?
@@blackphilip8936 what about London culture and Scottish culture and Irish culture and what year is that will tell you who won the culture war
I felt for much of this discussion Rory was the one in denial. A clever man no doubt but all too often on the wrong side of an argument. His political career is over.
why do they keep talking about how to keep the tories accountable? they should realize they lost the majority due to their own shortcomings and they have no mandate to keep the tories in line. the people/voters will hold the tories accountable. labour needs to shut their mouths and slink away in shame.
Nah, the country does benefit from an honest and effective opposition party. Labour isn't an honest or effective opposition at the moment, of course, but it would be good to have one. It's also good practice for them (if they are vaguely electable unlike the current lot), as happened when Thatcher>Major had pretty obviously run out of steam and centre-left Blair really looked like a better option - and was in his first term (pity about the rest).
@@Anti_Woke labour isn't honest? 0% of labour campaign adds / statements were fount to be false, where as 88% of conservative ones were, looks like labour is a far more honest party than what we have as a government. Unfortunately honesty doesn't seem to matter much in UK politics, after all we just voted in proven liars, if anything it seems like being honest and genuine is a disadvantage now.
Matthew Bentley ‘ The NHS is not for sale’ is a blatant lie. Sure the Conservatives lied but their lies didn’t actually win them th election. Labour’s campaign on the other hand was based in a lie
@@blancmull3886 really and what was that lie? And you don't think the get brexit done lie, or the not selling the NHS lie, or the increase the minimum wage lie, or the building 40 hospitals lie, or the getting 50,000 nurses lie played a role in helping the conservatives win?
Matthew Bentley They’re not selling the NHS. That was the main thing Labour lied about and you’re a complete fool to believe that is true without any evidence
At 16 minutes he talks about respect for the Constitution. As far as I'm aware Britain is not a constitutional republic and therefore does not have a constitution but rather a set of laws written through different and separate Acts of Parliament. Am I right or wrong?
That Rory fella gives me the creeps when he talks. Deffo something not right about him.
Pat mc Fadden is the first Labour guy that seems to actually comprehend what has happened to Labour and what they need to do to become a viable party.
However I’m sure his views and advice will be ignored.
Good for us Torys but fair play to him. Nice to see a Labour MP who isn’t a complete lunatic.