I totally get it. I played Tactics Ogre way back in the day (still have my PSOne copy) and I played the Steam version recently and remembered the grind and how much you could actually put into this without really getting anything back. It is an older game from an older time, so much like looking at NES games now, it was really meant more to fill time and get the "value" without the quality of life improvements we get from current games. I still have a very soft spot for this game, but I totally understand why someone wouldn't. That's why it is great to be a human being!
It's one of those games that's best experienced a second time. Honestly I bounced off at first, and now I've covered it for thousands of videos 🤣. Mostly it comes down to every mechanic having a million little subtle sub mechanics behind it, and it's in appreciating those details that you come back with a "oh crap, THAT'S what's going on there?" Mentality. Also, it's one of those RPGs that tends to burn a lot of folks when they try to power through. It's designed for strategizing around problems, which tends to confuse many when they come in with the "XYZ thing was too tanky or strong" approach. A large part of that is how notoriously hard to describe each mechanic is. For example. Many folks die to Nybbeth at the start. "Wizard hit too hard". Resilience technically boosts resistance by 20%. His damage goes down by 40%. Is it just him? No, scaling happens in phase 2, after stats, but before armor calculation, meaning his missiles get affected harder by damage threshold. Explain that 5 times fast 🤣. That said, there's so much meat on these bones. I've been running this thing for 12 years now, and still run into new stuff each time. This one is... technically a bit reworked from last time, too. Like...explaining the strategic application of setting up barricades to trap units on swamp tiles before petrifying them to slowly choke to death was seemingly too much, so now it's more about the quick moves. To that end, you may find a lot more common ground between the PSP version and the incredible One Vision overhaul, and your love of New Vegas. I know seeing that armor worked the same way really got me comparing the two a lot ages ago.
Thank you for commenting on this video. I heard Erick Landon also covered this game. A little bit of advice: I suggest separating your text paragraphs a little bit, so it can be easily read. Otherwise it looks like a bunch of words.
FYI for the readers: if you are reading this, Coffee Potato is a Tactics Ogre/Ogre Battle enthusiast. His YT channel covers this franchise as well as other niche IP as Armored Core. His content is very with the watch.
Love the video, even as a "hardcore" Tactics Ogre fan, your criticisms were all fair on point. Tactics Ogre: Reborn is a monument to 1990s game design. With all that can be great and frustrating about that era in gaming. Some people absolutely will not be able to enjoy that experience, and I think us fans need to cool our jets at times and be aware that 27 years of improvements in game design have taken place since it's original release.
Don't worry what I am about to say will offend somebody. We all know the real King is Ogre Battle 64 Person of Lordly Caliber! Tactics felt like fire emblem, final fantasy mobile, and a phone game to me. Now I am more used to Western turn based games like divinity, hardwest, Aoe Planetfall, darkest dungeon or wasteland. No joke even as a 7 year old playing it for the first time then. I had no idea what I was doing and still had a good time. Alignment what was that? Cocatrice cure and reading is that fruit punch? The music, the art, and the story was where it's at. Overture, Alone, Decisive, and Revolt are my favorite pieces in the game. "My revolution is better than yours and we don't need losers anymore. Keep talking bub. I have a horde of undead, dragon knights, and the power of young adult angst friendship on my side." Ogre battle 64 is considered a rts and I must admit the only strategy is always going for the leader in hit and run battles. It is one of those games that keeps drawing me back and can't forget easily. It's a real understatement to stay they nailed the atmosphere and having a unforgettable impression on even kids my age back then. I hope with Tactics Ogre success we will get Ogre battle 64 and possibly a new game in the future. Ogre battle 64 and Battalion Wars are the Goat! Farewell and have a lovely day.
My first 20 hours were rough... so much so that I seriously contemplated quitting and selling the game. I felt like I couldn't progress and I felt so stuck and frustrated. I then did some research and learned about the routes. I noticed there was a character named Ravness who reminded me of General Avlora from Triangle Strategy - who I managed to recruit in my copy of Triangle Strategy! So I made the executive decision of restarting my game entirely. With this new attempt, I worked my way toward Ravness and once I got her... oh man, did this game ever unlock and open up for me. Now, 250 hours later and with the Golyat Trio fight under my belt... I'm so glad I stuck it out and gave the game a second chance. I can see why it's so revered. This really is one of, if not the greatest, strategy RPGs of all time. Incredibly challenging... but SO satisfying.
I’m a first time Tactics Ogre player and I think it’s so much deeper than Triangle Strategy. It’s a bit dated in certain aspects but it really nails giving you endless options. If you can’t figure out how to save a guest unit you just suck at adapting your tactics bro. I’ve never lost a single unit (except for Vyce’s sorry ass). It is missing the quality of life of modern titles but the story and gameplay are as a good as it gets.it doesn’t spoon feed you like Triangle Strategy which locks every character into one or two build types. You have countless tactical options even in individual classes. The challenge is in adapting to the map. I’d recommend you give it another try. I think this might be the GOAT Srpg.
i appreciate the honesty. just because the game is dearly loved by its fans and critics of the time (and it being one of my absolute favs in the genre) doesnt mean everyone should like it too. its okay to not like a game if you feel its not for you.
@@SpiritStoneWarrior94-yx3gsyes haha, sorry, I've defaulted that acronym because I've also been saying FF7R and FF7RB (Final Fantasy VII Remake and Rebirth)
I had this same problem when I first played Tactics Ogre on Playstation way back when. It came out on PS after Final Fantasy Tactics (which I was a big fan of), and I just couldn't get into it because it seemed like Tactics Ogre was the exact same thing, only not as good. Even now many years later, I am finally making may way through the TO remake on Switch, and I am getting to see that there are some positives to it that were not in FFT (like the branching plot), but at the same time it still feels to me at times like "FFT, only not as good" especially when it comes to the combat which can feel kind of grindy at times. I will say this though the plot of TO gets WAY better towards the end of chapter 3 and is pretty great in chapter 4. The story takes quite awhile to get going, but when it does get going, it is great.
This is definitely one of my top 10 games of all time, and I was disappointed by Triangle Strategy, which looked really good. I appreciate the respectful criticism. I guess some games are just for different people. When I see all of that data in the menus, that really gets me going. Looking at all of those stats, grinding to capture dragons, recruiting rare classes, and collecting ingredients, etc. The story beats are high quality, but not overly verbose. They are respectful of your time. Some people describe the gameplay as sluggish. To me, that's what it takes for the elegant balance of game mechanics to really reveal themselves. There are a lot of units to manage, and it's a pleasure to do so, at least for me.
I love it and I also loved Triangle Strategy which a lot of people also didn't seem to like. With Tactics Ogre I restarted my first game after around 12hrs lol. Now I restarted and that game is around 50hrs. I'm near the end I think now. It definitely isn't the most accessible game but I'm a geek for tactical gameplay. It isn't the type of game that'll resonate with everyone. Make no mistake the sales numbers for these games will be a litmus test for Square Enix and whether or not they'll remake FFT. I'm just happy we're getting the next Front Mission games. Totally stoked for FM2. Oh and regarding the AI in TO:R I totally agree it's super frustrating when trying to save those guys. All they had to do is make the ressurectable. It isn't antagonistic to say TS is a better game because it is. Triangle Strategy is my GOTY and imo got slept on due to "tOo mUcH dIaLoGuE" as if the genre we're talking about is fps shooter or something. But I digress.
Triangle Strategy is at least a very good game due to general consensus and on its best way to become a „modern classic“, don’t know which „many people who dislike it“ you are talking about.
@@FelixS. I love triangle strategy, but let’s just say it’s definitely not a game for everyone. The best example is to go look at the steam reviews for the game, lots of people complaining about too much dialogue, or the game being too boring, or people saying the game has poor writing. I personally think that people on steam just don’t get Trpgs, but it’s not false to say that there’s definitely a lot of people that don’t like TS
The Vyce comment about him sucking then you fight him and he’s a monster is like the reverse of what happened a LOT in 90’s/early 00’s RPGs One example off the top of my head is Breath of Fire 3 You fight Garr several times in the story and he’s a freaking monster. Both in gameplay and in the narrative he is a beast. Then he joins your party and he’s one of the worst party members in the game lol.
I really loved what triangle strat did too. I hope it gets a sequel to iron out it’s problems which it has. My god every choice In that game felt like you are between a rock and a hard place, so it really feels like you are a leader making hard choices
Here to rep Tactics Ogre >>> Triangle Strategy :) Given the choice between the games where Ogre's unit customization is so deep and rewarding, vs. "ok choose to buff this skill or the other" just felt like such a joke haha. They're catering to very different game designs, but TO hit those dynamic TRPG notes so much better. It also helps that TO storyline and branching paths are 100x more intriguing and rich than Triangle's. I came away from TS with a sense that the symmetrical narrative structure forced so many story beats to fit square pegs into circular holes, and it just felt so hollow and artificial. And finally... when Denam is ambushed in the middle of the map... spend one turn taking a couple steps towards your main line and use an item to buff his def, instead of suiciding your protagonist into a meat grinder? Idk lol. Tactics Ogre expects you to use the wide range of tools at your disposal, and it feels so great when you do so successfully, as you said in the video. Don't set up any of your units to get hit by 6 of the enemy's and expect good results.
Just shows how much tastes can vary. Loving Tactics Ogre Reborn so much that you could call it an addiction. Quit Triangle Strategy halfway through. One key factor though is platform. I play on PC, and the port of Triangle Strategy to PC was subpar. Simply selecting a unit on a rooftop was a project, and that just wore me down. While the things you are describing about the TO:R user interface do not seem all that big a deal on PC. Also, I found both stories interesting and more nuanced than the typical video game. But for me, Triangle Strategy just flooded me with dialogue. At first I thought okay, this is just to get me into the game. But if anything, it got more intrusive as time went along. And that group decision thing just fell flat for me, as did those exploration phases. Battles were interesting, but the other stuff became such a large portion of my time, and I didn't feel that they were adding much. Which emphasized a sense of being on rails. Lots of words, when I feel I have agency, that's okay. But just lots of busywork and words with minimal agency, not so great. Tactics Ogre, I feel the agency in my choices somewhat more, and spend so much less time on the dialogue that the limited agency isn't highlighted. Also, I feel that the choices about class systems and equipment and items are all so much more interesting. Of course, (like you) I never played any other games in this series. I know there is controversy among series veterans about some of the changes they made. (From what I understand, this is quite a bit more than a remaster. Stuff was very different in earlier versions. Classes rebalanced, skills recombined, etc.)
About 10 videos in and all I hear about rpgs is "This mechanic is different than fallout? 0/10 would not recommend" maybe some channels are just meant to die with the hype. Like the one gta5 trailer channel that covered the trailers until release and disappeared of the face of the earth like a good pleb.
Cool upload man. I personally really love it but respect your opinion of course. I love that its 85 percent combat focused and love the short story segments. Just a little fyi though, you can press R3 to turn on and off enemy and ally hp bars to make it a breeze to tell em all apart :) Keep up the great content man!
Got this game years ago and just started playing and thought I was the only one that felt like it had disproportionate jumps in difficulty that took excessive grinding to overcome. It's nearly impossible to change classes because of the limitations the game puts on low level classes and fewer cross class abilities despite learning them. FFT is one of my top fav games ever and expected similar here; turned off by the levels required for equipment and the leveling system. The story seems deep and enjoyable but I'm afraid I won't get to it at this rate because of the grinding required.
I loved this game plus even 100% the achievements. Although I seek reviews for additional perspective, and not a validation of my own. So nothing wrong with Matty not being able to get into it. Keep up the great content!
Love both tactics ogre and triangle strategy... Which is better depend on each person really, you can't go wrong with either of them, but i agree with you take on nostalgia and games.
I am an old time fan of the series (played Ogre Battle, Tactics Ogre on Snes, 64, Knight of Lodis on GBA, LUCT on psp, and Reborn on PC). Gotta say I totally understand your feeling on Triangle Strategy and Tactics Ogre Reborn. I totally enjoy Reborn but I do think newcomers to tactics ogre may not feel so welcomed. The UI, camera, and the difficulty can make or break the game for some people (the new buff card system can make some bosses unfair even), and the gameplay can be a bit slow, especially in the beginning when characters have less skills so not much differentiation is seen on the characters. For myself I am still playing Reborn day and night non-stop, but I must say I am a little disappointed because this game cannot be called a Remake. If feels more like an update patch for LUCT on PSP or an optimization, and I am not even calling this a remaster because graphics don't change much. So to me Reborn is similar to another cashgrab SquareEnix does because they know Tactics Ogre is hot cake and lots of people still buy it. It feels like not much money is invested in Reborn (similar to the new Valkyrie Profile game sigh). When I hear Tactics Ogre get a Reborn version I really expect huge changes much like FF7 Remake vs FF7 original but of course that isn't the case so huge disappointment for me. If this is a true remake I bet lots of the problem mentioned in the video will be gone and lots of new people will get hooked to the series. Lost opportunities it's so sad.
I love this game but I wanted it long before I played it. I got the PS1 version probably in mid 2003 maybe late 2002. (I got my PS2 which was my first Playstation early summer vacation 2002 but couldn't find Tactics Ogre for a while after that) I actually prefer it to Final Fantasy Tactics, which I played first because I bought a copy of it the day I got my PS2, due to the branching paths, the larger max force size, and being able to use the training mode as an improvised multiplayer. When my best friend told me he was getting me a PS for Christmas six years ago the remake was one of the many games I got before getting the system Unfortunately my financial situation took a major turn for the worse this year so I wasn't able to pre-order the new remake but I hope to get it sometime next year. I just hope this does well enough that Square decides to remaster the rest of the Ogre franchise and maybe make a new game or two as well.
Triangle Strategy = reefer in the world of Tactical RPGs and Tactics Ogre is black tar heroin. It requires a lifestyle commitment and as a TH-camr that has to make business decisions based on their time I can totally understand making that choice. I hope you give it another chance after playing more of the genre. I didn't hear you mention playing Final Fantasy Tactics but I think the progression that would make Tactics Ogre click would be to go from Triangle to FFT then to Tactics Ogre. You make some good points. I was disappointed that there wasn't a better shop/outfitting option and more menu stream-lining in general. And I think for most people the first thing they play colors the rest of their opinion. I started with FFT and even though I think Tactics Ogre is mechanically richer I prefer the story and vibe of Final Fantasy Tactics. But for the record: Tactics Ogre > Triangle Strategy (though I love it as well)
I have a problem with finishing games. A lot of the time I'll play a game, and I just never end up finishing it. Sometimes it's because I just don't like the game, but other times I'll actually really enjoy the game and just not play it through to the end. I did this with Octopath Traveler, also with Bravely Default II (I got the regular ending but never the true ending) Xenoblade Chronicles 3, which I enjoyed a lot, I just didn't actually BEAT the game, and one of my favorite games of all time with Breath of the Wild, I never actually killed Calamity Gannon. It's almost like it's too disappointing for me to let the game end or something.
Lol, I have same thing. Just beat FFT WOTL on my phone, having played it multiple times in the past decade and a half. These days its because I know the ending is coming, and what I was enjoying was the journey. I sold TOR with the last battle location Hanging Gardens on the map. I stopped playing it while I was in the 100 floor dungeon. Its weird, I agree.
I always loved tactics ogre more than FFT. FFT you can only bring 4 characters which severely limits class combos to bring. With Ogre you can bring 8, but not as cool of classes as FFT but I still prefer it. I don’t like those cards that appear all over the field. I don’t like what it means for lore or even gameplay. That’s my biggest gripe besides that this is the best version of one of the best tactic games. If you liked this game check out the GBA tactics ogre knight of lodis
FFT: up to 5 characters (4 if there are 2 or more guest units) Max people "storage" is 16 in original and 20 in WotL version. TO: up to 10 characters at least in original. In remake max people you can bring varies but it's usually 10 people in story battles. Max people "storage" is 30 in original PS1 version and 50 in PSP/Reborn remake.
I beat Triangle Strategy and I believe that story was so absolutely boring, but yeah the battles were fun. I never connected with Triangle Story's STORY, and I completed the game. I just.. really kept thinking the story would get better and it kind of stayed basic. Nothing ever felt like it surprised me or took me off guard. And everything was about Salt.. everything.
In fairness. In real life the discovery that salt could be used to preserve meat was a game changer for every human society. No longer did you have to immediately cook the meat from a kill because it would quickly spoil, you could preserve it for later and even ship it to sell at market. It was to the ancient world what refrigeration was to early 20th century America.
Nostalgia is so powerful for some. I felt the same way. This is such a chore, all the slow ui stuff. Then i tried the demo of triangle strategy and it just had the stuff i was missing. Guess I should have watched more game play videos
I feel you. I played Triangle Strategy and Tactics Ogre in the same order as you did, and I definitely felt like playing Triangle first really dampened my enjoyment and enthusiasm for Tactics Ogre (still a good game). A thought that frequently went through my mind was "I could be having more fun with another playthrough of Triangle." In fact, that's the same thing I think when trying to go back and finish FE Three Houses haha. Three Houses was just such a tedious grind with all of its social interactions that I never completed it; I just wanted to play an SRPG, not a social sim. After playing the super refined Triangle Strategy, I don't know if I can play any other SRPG without comparing them to what I consider the best, most polished SRPG of all time haha
i agree, Triangle Stratagy really felt like the devs sat down and really hammered out what worked, what didn't and what was too much scope creep for a sRPG that they wanted to get mass appeal for. the TO dev is kind of a systems whore with all his games lol vagrant story still remains so fucking obtuse to my brain
Wish it was easier to get member points. I got a scarf that’s really nice and a cheap reusable tote bag from it. At one point they had license plate holders that said “my other rides a chocobo”… so corny, but I need it lmao
Older games are going to be hit and miss for a lot of people because standards of game design have improved over time. Someone playing Tactics Ogre on release is going to be far more impressed with it compared to all the options available now. Between X-Com, Fire Emblem, Triangle Strategy and a bunch of other games, it's not surprising to be honest. I'm someone who played Ocarina of Time many years after release - I owned an SNES and a GameCube, not an N64. I honestly thought the game was obtuse, had poor pacing and really ugly graphics. I also genuinely felt that every Zelda game that came after it was superior. I know people who grew up with Ocarina don't agree with me, but in a way, I feel like I'm more objective precisely because I didn't play it on release.
I was enjoying this game but the level cap kind of killed it for me. In chapter 3 it felt like I was level 19 for 10 hours at least. The story never grabbed me but I also was distracted with a newborn. Maybe I will get back to finishing it but man I wish the progression felt better.
I forgot I commented on this lol. I've never played Tactics Ogre, Triangle Strategy, or Octopath Traveller 1 or 2. I've only played Final Fantasy Tactics, FF Tactics Advance, and FF Tactics A2 for the DS. Hope these other games are worth getting into
Great videos today Matty! I'm excited to finally try out Tactics Ogre and I love your honesty in your videos. Keep up the great work. And I hope the new video release schedule is going well for you.
I didn't play this game until recently so I didn't go in with any bias. Im a hardcore strategy rpg fan but I can agree Tactics Ogre has some 90s clunk that can make it harder to get into in both writing and gameplay. Still liked it a lot though.
I think it's so sad that you need to be so catious with having any negative opinion about a popular game, needing to wrap it over and over in cotton candy just so people won't rage in the comment section. Online climate at it's worst man. Now I don't blame you for doing it, but people on the other end who just REACT with a big R need to just chill and grow up.
@@pauls9034 it seems like you're the upset one. You're the one here crying over a valid criticism of what the online sphere surrounding video games, music, TV shows/movies, politics and books tend to have. There's too many babies like yourself who can't accept that not everyone will enjoy a popular game, that usually is popular due to nostalgia, and it being a product that helped to progress a certain genre/sub-genre of said product, bit doesn't necessarily hold up today 20+ years later.
Maybe age is a thing. I was introduced to tactics games with fft when it came out. Then got tactics ogre on ps1 and loved it but not as much as fft. Played triangle strategy and lost interest quick as the story aspects just dragged on and the class customization is very limited. Tactics ogre reborn is the original game but way better. And you don't need wiki just read the Warren reports
Oh, this was really interesting to watch, because I'm the exact opposite. (I still hit like on the video, of course, don't worry!) For me, I put a lot of time into Triangle Strategy to see all of the endings and recruit everyone, but it always felt like a watered down version of Tactics Ogre, and it left me unsatisfied. I'd played Fell Seal, whose class system felt like a much better version of Final Fantasy Tactics', and compared to Fell Seal, Triangle disappointed me. Loading up Tactics Ogre: Reborn felt like... a reminder of why I fell in love with the genre in the first place. The voice acting, the combat, the classes, the choices. I went into the game expecting it to be the best game ever made, a sure way to disappoint myself, and... I wasn't disappointed. I haven't quite beaten it yet, so there's still time to disappoint, but I'm close to the end now, and I love how much post-game and epilogue content is available if I'm still having fun. For a while, the old Tactics Ogre: Let Us Cling Together was neck-and-neck with Final Fantasy Tactics: War of the Lions for me. For single player, LUCT would pull ahead, but War of the Lions had that fun cooperative multiplayer option, and I spent a lot of time saving chocobos with friends. But with Reborn, there's now no close second place for me. I won't talk bad about Triangle Strategy because I know how much you love it, but it's funny how these things end up. (I should add, did you play Jeanne d'Arc? Triangle Strategy feels like a direct successor to that particular flavor of Tactical RPG.) In terms of FF12 needing a second look... I'll add that I tried to play the Super Nintendo version of Tactics Ogre as a very small child when we rented it from Blockbuster, and I didn't get into it then. So LUCT was my second bite of the tactical apple, so to speak, and Reborn was my third. I also replayed the Ogre series a little before Reborn's release. They're all incredibly fun, but Reborn is really the star of the series for me. Anyways, thanks for the video =] Now to see if Coffee Potato has commented on it already since he appears in the comments of all ogre videos...
As someone who has nearly 10 days worth of play time in Reborn (playing since November 11th, 2022), I just want to put out a general statement. Most of the problems listed in the video are subjective: for example, I've never confused my units with the enemy. I do not miss having a camera that rotates 360 degree. And I do not think that Triangle Strategy "does it better." I also do not think that Tactics Ogre "does it better." I think they're both excellent games, which are worthy of your time and money. Throwing in the towel after a mere 20 hours (especially if you're a new player and therefore playing at a slower pace than someone initiated) means you merely scratched the surface of what Tactics Ogre has to offer. It takes about 30-40 hours into Tactics Ogre before the story and full gameplay mechanics really start to take off. Perhaps you gave up too soon. It's fine to enjoy one similar game more than another. But I think that constantly comparing two games is an unproductive way to approach a game of any genre. I plan to pick up Triangle Strategy, and you can bet your bottom dollar I will not be comparing it to Tactics Ogre in the back of my mind. I also play a game called Pathfinder: Wrath of the Righteous. It's another incredible game, with almost unlimited replayability and incredibly deep combat and story. Yet I do not constantly compare that game to Divinity: Original Sin 2 -- which is, in some ways, a remarkably similar game. If you look up their ratings on Metacritic, you'll see that both Pathfinder: Wrath of the Righteous and Divinity: Original Sin 2 have excellent critical scores. Yet the more I play both, the more I can see past the similarities and recognize their differences - in a purely positive way. Now if you look at Tactics Ogre and Triangle Strategy on Metacritic, you'll notice that 1) both have high critical reviews, with only a point or two difference between them, and 2) both games have been heavily criticized by the "gaming critics community" (a "community" which I've lost respect for). But my point is that both games are similar on the surface - even in overall score - but excellent nonetheless, and if you give them both time you'll see that they have plenty of their own unique charm. You obviously own TO: Reborn. Perhaps if you started from the beginning and made it a point to not privately compare it to Triangle Strategy in your mind, you'd enjoy the experience more. (Also, I did like and subscribe, even if I disagree with this particular matter. Your channel itself is very good, and you seem to give your reviews thoughtful analysis.)
Oh man, Matty.... This is dangerous territory. I hate to say this. But I think you're wrong on many points 😂 When you compare to Triangle Strategy, it's baffling. Triangle Strategy had the upside of a streamlined interface and gameplay. That's about it. Everything else is much better done in Tactics Ogre. -The story and writing were so poor in Triangle Strategy. Tactics Ogre is embarrassingly better written. Different leagues. The story really deals with moral boundaries and interesting situations. -The DEPTH. Triangle Strategy is a puddle. Tactics Ogre is a lake. -The choices! Triangle Strategy has very few decisions that actually change the plot. Tactics Ogre has wildly different routes. -The lore. Triangle Strategy felt like a theatre show on display. The world felt shallow because there's so little actually going on. Tactics Ogre has a rich lore and overarching story. Many characters that you barely see are given wonderful descriptions in the Warren Report. It's a bit like Trails in that regard. I know what map you are talking about. I can picture it right now. Oh my gosh.... Matty ... you barely made it 1/4th into the game. I understand 25 hours is a large investment. But how can you praise Trails, a series that requires 40+ hours to get to the good stuff, in the same breath? Fair enough that the game didn't grab you. I don't understand it. (Especially, again, compared to Triangle Strategy. So confusing. Considering what it lacked compared to it's forefather.) Something to revisit at another time. Edit: I want to add that the UI and menu system is absolutely a clunky and unwanted remnant from the past. The camera is also a bother. But less so a deal breaker. Neither of these issues detract much from what this game accomplishes so well.
10:20 haven't tried the remastered game yet. Kinda played both LUCT and Lodis, is the sprite in the new one that bad? As a kid i kinda remembered it being just BLUE good, RED bad.
I downloaded both and stopped playing triangle strategy because it was too long winded for me and the dialog and VA was very subpar. Tactics Ogre Reborn has a fantastic game play, VA and story with excellent difficulty and replayability compared to Triangle Strategy. Triangle Strategy lacks customization and that's kinda lame. Tactics Ogre Reborn is awesome and so much better than Triangle Strategy, but I respect ur opinion.
Your kind is hurting RPGs. Don’t come on to this video just to cope over your game getting blasted while at the same time showing your terrible ability for appreciating good games…
I appreciate you making this video and being straightforward about your experience because hey, it was your experience, so it's valid. Nobody can accuse you of being unfair
Shocked played the snes PPS1port verson, the PSP version and Swich one. All A amazing game lead to LUCT's new characters I love. I think it's on FFT's level and the paths may make it better. FFT got me into being it's dad.
I had an opposite experience where I reaaaaally wanted to love triangle strategy but it kind of fell flat for me. I never played tactics ogre and I unexpectedly loved it! In TO the varied cast and the options of recruiting mid battle really changed the way I strategized battles and team comps! In TS I felt a bit more limited in setup, especially since you unlock all the skills towards the end of the first playthrough/ start of the 2nd. I agree with a lot of the QoL stuff like the camera angles and the story factions in TO being harder to grasp
Maybe the Chariot Tarot and Warren Report would have solved most the issues you have with the game ^^. Seems you missed some core mechanics, not judging just saying ^^
Wow, surprised but I get it. The camera angles ARE very bad. But I thought the story was very strong and your ability to customize characters was great. But yea, if you aren't hooked early on, drop it. It's not a game that gets good late in. it's always good (or always bad)
Eh, sounds like, as is often the case in negative reviews for this game / the PSP version, that you got filtered when the game asked you to apply tactics for real instead of just blindly bruteforcing your way through over-levelling. I blame Fire Emblem for giving people the unreasonable expectation that you can just throw your team at the meat grinder and mostly get out victorious through only good unit placement. While less true nowadays with the series being more popular, it's somewhat similar to SMT making people rage because they never expected to had to use buffs/debuffs. Even without being a tactical wizard, only applying this make the game difficulty go down to "normal" levels. Also small free hate on my part, can be ignored, but lmao the "strategy" asked from player in Triangle Strategy is an absolute joke.
Dude don’t cope. Nobody has an issue with buffing and careful planning. Plus, Fire Emblem and games like this are different. If you payed attention you would know that is a terrible comparison. As well as using SMT. Those games require different strategy than this to where the buffs/debuffs have different expectations. Expectations that, let’s be real can be abnormal. Also, you sound like the kinda clown to play very easy and whine about it’s not hard and doesn’t require strategy.
Thanks for the point of view, even when disagreed with. I love knowing it always comes from an honest place. Best wishes for a Merry Xmas to you and your family Matty
you are wrong when you said navigating the HUD in the menu "it's clearly a product of its time". because that's not how the HUD looks at all in the original. it only got more complicated after the PSP version, and then changed again in reborn version. though to be fair, the original HUD does look simplistic, dated, and lacks customization, but at the same time, more effective and less time consuming. that being said, I'm also not a fan of how complicated character management has become (in reborn. I actually like it in PSP version).
I ain’t even watch the video yet and know you had to love it if you a FF Tactics fan edit: well i was proved wrong. Doesn’t make any sense but alright lol
I loved FFT and while I liked this game I definitely don’t put it up there with FFT. Classes and characters are so much more restrictive compared to how free you were to customize in FFT, and yeah the story doesn’t hit anywhere the same for me personally. Like he says they introduce the plot much worse, they drop a lot of names and stuff early on that they somehow expect you to know. I had to Wikipedia some stuff just like he did to try and make sense of it early on
Too much dialogue in Triangle Strategy. Sometimes I just want to play a video game. I don't want to read a book just to play the game. Tactics Ogre all the way for me.
Honestly I found the world building in triangle strategy to be quite weak in comparison to the world of tactics ogre. I could never get over the cognitive disanence of salt being so scarce. Furthermore the world being so neatly divided into 3 very distinct parts also seemed quite unrealistic.
I've looked into this game because I'm interested in playing it, and according to one breakdown on the matter I saw, a lot of changes were made in Reborn compared to previous versions that might sognificantly contribute to the issues you had with the game, including how often the AI let you down, and how tedious battles could be. Not sure myself though, I'm going off thirdhand information from user reviews. I'll bave to keep looking into the differences between versions.
Its a tactics games thats heavily based on RNG wich kills the whole "tactics" aspect. Not to mention the pacing was awful filled with a lot of padding missions, especially on the later half of the game. I really disliked it sadly
You gotta love the amount of cope in the comments to the point where people are whinging about Triangle Strategy. An awesome game that deserves the love it’s getting. Learn to accept that people have different opinions and if you’re going to bring up other games, please use intelligent critiques, not crybaby nonsense…😂
@@TIDbitRETRO hard disagree but to each their own, Triangle Strategy's enemy AI was just way to easy to manipulate and the game's pacing was a slog imo
Here are some things it did better than Triangle Strat: 1. Voice work 2. Dialogue writing 3. The dialogue pop ups and font 4. Story was a little more grounded less anime teen drama like (subjective) 5. Prettier Art. 6. I personally like the visuals of the grid squares as its quite hard to see sometimes in Triangle.
Damn... not only did you not enjoy it, you didn't enjoy it to the point it's one of the few games you didn't even finish for a review... that's rough man, I hate to hear that.
basically, you just don't like the graphics. You did not understand the story because you haven't gotten far from it. Played Tactics Ogre on PS1, PSP, and Steam. I played Final Fantasy Tactics from PS1, and PSP and played Triangle Strategy. I played all of these 3 games for hundreds of hours. Tactics Ogre is for real hardcore SRPG gamers and Triangle Strategy is for newer players. If I'll rank these 3 games. Tactics Ogre > Final Fantasy Tactics > Triangle Strategy.
I know you're intention with bringing up Triangle Strategy but tbh, the constant comparisons and just uneeded mentions at points really just turned me off from checking the game. I would of just not mentioned the game to begin with and just went in on the criticisms. Do you know about the turn rewind function by chance? The part where you were talking about the Guest AI dying constantly and needing to reload a save isn't needed when you could just rewind a couple of turns and have a different outcome (changing the action in chariot changes up the actions for the turns after so it's not like you rewinded a turn and see the same results, it's different results when you change your action on chariot for you and everyone's turn after)
The start of the game you are the weakest and that fight you mentioned made me stop playing as well the first time I got the game, I didn't rage quit, just put it down for next try tomorrow which I didnt pick it back up. However came back started a new save and beat the beginning, after that the game is way easier but still has some difficult fights like the one you mentioned. Getting exp is easier, more magic options, way more unique characters, I think 4 join at same time. The story choices are great which you hardly talked about meaning you quit very very early. Definitely try again one day. Honestly though I didn't finish it yet but I blame most of that on my PSP battery/charger not being the best.
You don't need to like it, is fine not every game is for everyone. I assume you are not a tactical strategy RPG guy, well me either although I can enjoy them.
I totally get it. I played Tactics Ogre way back in the day (still have my PSOne copy) and I played the Steam version recently and remembered the grind and how much you could actually put into this without really getting anything back. It is an older game from an older time, so much like looking at NES games now, it was really meant more to fill time and get the "value" without the quality of life improvements we get from current games. I still have a very soft spot for this game, but I totally understand why someone wouldn't. That's why it is great to be a human being!
It's one of those games that's best experienced a second time. Honestly I bounced off at first, and now I've covered it for thousands of videos 🤣.
Mostly it comes down to every mechanic having a million little subtle sub mechanics behind it, and it's in appreciating those details that you come back with a "oh crap, THAT'S what's going on there?" Mentality.
Also, it's one of those RPGs that tends to burn a lot of folks when they try to power through. It's designed for strategizing around problems, which tends to confuse many when they come in with the "XYZ thing was too tanky or strong" approach. A large part of that is how notoriously hard to describe each mechanic is. For example. Many folks die to Nybbeth at the start. "Wizard hit too hard". Resilience technically boosts resistance by 20%. His damage goes down by 40%. Is it just him? No, scaling happens in phase 2, after stats, but before armor calculation, meaning his missiles get affected harder by damage threshold. Explain that 5 times fast 🤣.
That said, there's so much meat on these bones. I've been running this thing for 12 years now, and still run into new stuff each time.
This one is... technically a bit reworked from last time, too. Like...explaining the strategic application of setting up barricades to trap units on swamp tiles before petrifying them to slowly choke to death was seemingly too much, so now it's more about the quick moves. To that end, you may find a lot more common ground between the PSP version and the incredible One Vision overhaul, and your love of New Vegas. I know seeing that armor worked the same way really got me comparing the two a lot ages ago.
Thank you for commenting on this video. I heard Erick Landon also covered this game.
A little bit of advice: I suggest separating your text paragraphs a little bit, so it can be easily read. Otherwise it looks like a bunch of words.
FYI for the readers: if you are reading this, Coffee Potato is a Tactics Ogre/Ogre Battle enthusiast. His YT channel covers this franchise as well as other niche IP as Armored Core. His content is very with the watch.
Yea thanks it’s a bit of a shame Matty didn’t acknowledge it
Would I say you’d rather play the PSP version or one other than this remaster? Thanks 🙏
Love the video, even as a "hardcore" Tactics Ogre fan, your criticisms were all fair on point. Tactics Ogre: Reborn is a monument to 1990s game design. With all that can be great and frustrating about that era in gaming. Some people absolutely will not be able to enjoy that experience, and I think us fans need to cool our jets at times and be aware that 27 years of improvements in game design have taken place since it's original release.
Excellent point observation. Our time is different, as expectations so its natural that some things age not that well, and that's how it is.
Don't worry what I am about to say will offend somebody.
We all know the real King is Ogre Battle 64 Person of Lordly Caliber!
Tactics felt like fire emblem, final fantasy mobile, and a phone game to me.
Now I am more used to Western turn based games like divinity, hardwest, Aoe Planetfall, darkest dungeon or wasteland.
No joke even as a 7 year old playing it for the first time then.
I had no idea what I was doing and still had a good time. Alignment what was that? Cocatrice cure and reading is that fruit punch? The music, the art, and the story was where it's at.
Overture, Alone, Decisive, and Revolt are my favorite pieces in the game.
"My revolution is better than yours and we don't need losers anymore.
Keep talking bub. I have a horde of undead, dragon knights, and the power of young adult angst friendship on my side."
Ogre battle 64 is considered a rts and I must admit the only strategy is always going for the leader in hit and run battles.
It is one of those games that keeps drawing me back and can't forget easily.
It's a real understatement to stay they nailed the atmosphere and having a unforgettable impression on even kids my age back then.
I hope with Tactics Ogre success we will get Ogre battle 64 and possibly a new game in the future.
Ogre battle 64 and Battalion Wars are the Goat!
Farewell and have a lovely day.
My first 20 hours were rough... so much so that I seriously contemplated quitting and selling the game. I felt like I couldn't progress and I felt so stuck and frustrated.
I then did some research and learned about the routes. I noticed there was a character named Ravness who reminded me of General Avlora from Triangle Strategy - who I managed to recruit in my copy of Triangle Strategy!
So I made the executive decision of restarting my game entirely. With this new attempt, I worked my way toward Ravness and once I got her... oh man, did this game ever unlock and open up for me.
Now, 250 hours later and with the Golyat Trio fight under my belt... I'm so glad I stuck it out and gave the game a second chance. I can see why it's so revered. This really is one of, if not the greatest, strategy RPGs of all time. Incredibly challenging... but SO satisfying.
I’m a first time Tactics Ogre player and I think it’s so much deeper than Triangle Strategy. It’s a bit dated in certain aspects but it really nails giving you endless options. If you can’t figure out how to save a guest unit you just suck at adapting your tactics bro. I’ve never lost a single unit (except for Vyce’s sorry ass).
It is missing the quality of life of modern titles but the story and gameplay are as a good as it gets.it doesn’t spoon feed you like Triangle Strategy which locks every character into one or two build types. You have countless tactical options even in individual classes. The challenge is in adapting to the map.
I’d recommend you give it another try. I think this might be the GOAT Srpg.
stop being cringe bro, no one cares about your gaming acolades lmao
i appreciate the honesty. just because the game is dearly loved by its fans and critics of the time (and it being one of my absolute favs in the genre) doesnt mean everyone should like it too. its okay to not like a game if you feel its not for you.
That's how I felt about GOWR. Bored out of my fucking skull playing it but I feel it's taboo to say such a thing :/
@@ianperesmusic Same
@@ianperesmusic Is GOWR, God Of War Remake? Just haven't heard that acronym before
@@SpiritStoneWarrior94-yx3gsyes haha, sorry, I've defaulted that acronym because I've also been saying FF7R and FF7RB (Final Fantasy VII Remake and Rebirth)
I had this same problem when I first played Tactics Ogre on Playstation way back when. It came out on PS after Final Fantasy Tactics (which I was a big fan of), and I just couldn't get into it because it seemed like Tactics Ogre was the exact same thing, only not as good. Even now many years later, I am finally making may way through the TO remake on Switch, and I am getting to see that there are some positives to it that were not in FFT (like the branching plot), but at the same time it still feels to me at times like "FFT, only not as good" especially when it comes to the combat which can feel kind of grindy at times.
I will say this though the plot of TO gets WAY better towards the end of chapter 3 and is pretty great in chapter 4. The story takes quite awhile to get going, but when it does get going, it is great.
This is definitely one of my top 10 games of all time, and I was disappointed by Triangle Strategy, which looked really good. I appreciate the respectful criticism.
I guess some games are just for different people. When I see all of that data in the menus, that really gets me going. Looking at all of those stats, grinding to capture dragons, recruiting rare classes, and collecting ingredients, etc. The story beats are high quality, but not overly verbose. They are respectful of your time. Some people describe the gameplay as sluggish. To me, that's what it takes for the elegant balance of game mechanics to really reveal themselves. There are a lot of units to manage, and it's a pleasure to do so, at least for me.
I love it and I also loved Triangle Strategy which a lot of people also didn't seem to like.
With Tactics Ogre I restarted my first game after around 12hrs lol. Now I restarted and that game is around 50hrs.
I'm near the end I think now. It definitely isn't the most accessible game but I'm a geek for tactical gameplay. It isn't the type of game that'll resonate with everyone. Make no mistake the sales numbers for these games will be a litmus test for Square Enix and whether or not they'll remake FFT.
I'm just happy we're getting the next Front Mission games. Totally stoked for FM2.
Oh and regarding the AI in TO:R I totally agree it's super frustrating when trying to save those guys. All they had to do is make the ressurectable. It isn't antagonistic to say TS is a better game because it is. Triangle Strategy is my GOTY and imo got slept on due to "tOo mUcH dIaLoGuE" as if the genre we're talking about is fps shooter or something. But I digress.
Triangle Strategy is at least a very good game due to general consensus and on its best way to become a „modern classic“, don’t know which „many people who dislike it“ you are talking about.
@@FelixS. I love triangle strategy, but let’s just say it’s definitely not a game for everyone. The best example is to go look at the steam reviews for the game, lots of people complaining about too much dialogue, or the game being too boring, or people saying the game has poor writing.
I personally think that people on steam just don’t get Trpgs, but it’s not false to say that there’s definitely a lot of people that don’t like TS
Have it on pS5 and switch so when a go on long ride I can play it !! Enjoy it !!!
Gonna starting posting more content of Tactic ogre 👹
I love this game so much. Reborn was my first experience with this title also, and I absolutely love it! Bring on the FF Tactics remaster!
I had the GBA game back in the day. It was excellent. Bought Reborn and it's great.
The Vyce comment about him sucking then you fight him and he’s a monster is like the reverse of what happened a LOT in 90’s/early 00’s RPGs
One example off the top of my head is Breath of Fire 3
You fight Garr several times in the story and he’s a freaking monster. Both in gameplay and in the narrative he is a beast. Then he joins your party and he’s one of the worst party members in the game lol.
That's basically "strong villain turned into weak ally" character syndrome.
It happens a lot in anime XD
I really loved what triangle strat did too. I hope it gets a sequel to iron out it’s problems which it has. My god every choice In that game felt like you are between a rock and a hard place, so it really feels like you are a leader making hard choices
Here to rep Tactics Ogre >>> Triangle Strategy :) Given the choice between the games where Ogre's unit customization is so deep and rewarding, vs. "ok choose to buff this skill or the other" just felt like such a joke haha. They're catering to very different game designs, but TO hit those dynamic TRPG notes so much better.
It also helps that TO storyline and branching paths are 100x more intriguing and rich than Triangle's. I came away from TS with a sense that the symmetrical narrative structure forced so many story beats to fit square pegs into circular holes, and it just felt so hollow and artificial.
And finally... when Denam is ambushed in the middle of the map... spend one turn taking a couple steps towards your main line and use an item to buff his def, instead of suiciding your protagonist into a meat grinder? Idk lol. Tactics Ogre expects you to use the wide range of tools at your disposal, and it feels so great when you do so successfully, as you said in the video. Don't set up any of your units to get hit by 6 of the enemy's and expect good results.
I've happily played tactics ogre reborn for 100 hours +
Just shows how much tastes can vary. Loving Tactics Ogre Reborn so much that you could call it an addiction. Quit Triangle Strategy halfway through.
One key factor though is platform. I play on PC, and the port of Triangle Strategy to PC was subpar. Simply selecting a unit on a rooftop was a project, and that just wore me down. While the things you are describing about the TO:R user interface do not seem all that big a deal on PC.
Also, I found both stories interesting and more nuanced than the typical video game. But for me, Triangle Strategy just flooded me with dialogue. At first I thought okay, this is just to get me into the game. But if anything, it got more intrusive as time went along. And that group decision thing just fell flat for me, as did those exploration phases. Battles were interesting, but the other stuff became such a large portion of my time, and I didn't feel that they were adding much. Which emphasized a sense of being on rails. Lots of words, when I feel I have agency, that's okay. But just lots of busywork and words with minimal agency, not so great.
Tactics Ogre, I feel the agency in my choices somewhat more, and spend so much less time on the dialogue that the limited agency isn't highlighted. Also, I feel that the choices about class systems and equipment and items are all so much more interesting.
Of course, (like you) I never played any other games in this series. I know there is controversy among series veterans about some of the changes they made. (From what I understand, this is quite a bit more than a remaster. Stuff was very different in earlier versions. Classes rebalanced, skills recombined, etc.)
I know what you mean by the Final Fantasy 12 writing. The story was so good and underrated, I'll have to check this one out then!
I've heard the later ports and International versions does solves many of the issues of the original.
I still need to finish FFX thou...
Love the completeness of the video. You got a new subscriber!
About 10 videos in and all I hear about rpgs is "This mechanic is different than fallout? 0/10 would not recommend" maybe some channels are just meant to die with the hype. Like the one gta5 trailer channel that covered the trailers until release and disappeared of the face of the earth like a good pleb.
Cool upload man. I personally really love it but respect your opinion of course. I love that its 85 percent combat focused and love the short story segments. Just a little fyi though, you can press R3 to turn on and off enemy and ally hp bars to make it a breeze to tell em all apart :) Keep up the great content man!
Your comment made the game a lot more appealing to me.
@@IlleMagister delighted to hear it! Hope you enjoy it if you play it. I think its great
I feel the same way. I don’t drop games ever, but Tactics Ogre is pushing it. Currently in Chapter 4, heard it was the longest one unfortunately.
Got this game years ago and just started playing and thought I was the only one that felt like it had disproportionate jumps in difficulty that took excessive grinding to overcome. It's nearly impossible to change classes because of the limitations the game puts on low level classes and fewer cross class abilities despite learning them. FFT is one of my top fav games ever and expected similar here; turned off by the levels required for equipment and the leveling system. The story seems deep and enjoyable but I'm afraid I won't get to it at this rate because of the grinding required.
Reborn doesn't have that nonsense.
Each unit has it's own level. Changing classes is very easy.
Sounds like you played the PSP version
@@thelegacyofgaming2928 it sounds like you've also experienced this. Is this not the case with other ports?
I loved this game plus even 100% the achievements. Although I seek reviews for additional perspective, and not a validation of my own. So nothing wrong with Matty not being able to get into it. Keep up the great content!
Love both tactics ogre and triangle strategy... Which is better depend on each person really, you can't go wrong with either of them, but i agree with you take on nostalgia and games.
I am an old time fan of the series (played Ogre Battle, Tactics Ogre on Snes, 64, Knight of Lodis on GBA, LUCT on psp, and Reborn on PC). Gotta say I totally understand your feeling on Triangle Strategy and Tactics Ogre Reborn. I totally enjoy Reborn but I do think newcomers to tactics ogre may not feel so welcomed. The UI, camera, and the difficulty can make or break the game for some people (the new buff card system can make some bosses unfair even), and the gameplay can be a bit slow, especially in the beginning when characters have less skills so not much differentiation is seen on the characters.
For myself I am still playing Reborn day and night non-stop, but I must say I am a little disappointed because this game cannot be called a Remake. If feels more like an update patch for LUCT on PSP or an optimization, and I am not even calling this a remaster because graphics don't change much. So to me Reborn is similar to another cashgrab SquareEnix does because they know Tactics Ogre is hot cake and lots of people still buy it. It feels like not much money is invested in Reborn (similar to the new Valkyrie Profile game sigh). When I hear Tactics Ogre get a Reborn version I really expect huge changes much like FF7 Remake vs FF7 original but of course that isn't the case so huge disappointment for me. If this is a true remake I bet lots of the problem mentioned in the video will be gone and lots of new people will get hooked to the series. Lost opportunities it's so sad.
I love this game but I wanted it long before I played it. I got the PS1 version probably in mid 2003 maybe late 2002. (I got my PS2 which was my first Playstation early summer vacation 2002 but couldn't find Tactics Ogre for a while after that) I actually prefer it to Final Fantasy Tactics, which I played first because I bought a copy of it the day I got my PS2, due to the branching paths, the larger max force size, and being able to use the training mode as an improvised multiplayer.
When my best friend told me he was getting me a PS for Christmas six years ago the remake was one of the many games I got before getting the system Unfortunately my financial situation took a major turn for the worse this year so I wasn't able to pre-order the new remake but I hope to get it sometime next year. I just hope this does well enough that Square decides to remaster the rest of the Ogre franchise and maybe make a new game or two as well.
Triangle Strategy = reefer in the world of Tactical RPGs and Tactics Ogre is black tar heroin. It requires a lifestyle commitment and as a TH-camr that has to make business decisions based on their time I can totally understand making that choice.
I hope you give it another chance after playing more of the genre. I didn't hear you mention playing Final Fantasy Tactics but I think the progression that would make Tactics Ogre click would be to go from Triangle to FFT then to Tactics Ogre.
You make some good points. I was disappointed that there wasn't a better shop/outfitting option and more menu stream-lining in general.
And I think for most people the first thing they play colors the rest of their opinion. I started with FFT and even though I think Tactics Ogre is mechanically richer I prefer the story and vibe of Final Fantasy Tactics.
But for the record: Tactics Ogre > Triangle Strategy (though I love it as well)
I have a problem with finishing games. A lot of the time I'll play a game, and I just never end up finishing it. Sometimes it's because I just don't like the game, but other times I'll actually really enjoy the game and just not play it through to the end. I did this with Octopath Traveler, also with Bravely Default II (I got the regular ending but never the true ending) Xenoblade Chronicles 3, which I enjoyed a lot, I just didn't actually BEAT the game, and one of my favorite games of all time with Breath of the Wild, I never actually killed Calamity Gannon. It's almost like it's too disappointing for me to let the game end or something.
Lol, I have same thing. Just beat FFT WOTL on my phone, having played it multiple times in the past decade and a half. These days its because I know the ending is coming, and what I was enjoying was the journey. I sold TOR with the last battle location Hanging Gardens on the map. I stopped playing it while I was in the 100 floor dungeon. Its weird, I agree.
@@sayerslayer1854 Yeah it's crazy right? I think you're spot on, I'm enjoying the journey. If I beat it, the journey ends, no more game.
Tell me about it, I've play more JRPGs than finishing them.
I always loved tactics ogre more than FFT. FFT you can only bring 4 characters which severely limits class combos to bring. With Ogre you can bring 8, but not as cool of classes as FFT but I still prefer it. I don’t like those cards that appear all over the field. I don’t like what it means for lore or even gameplay. That’s my biggest gripe besides that this is the best version of one of the best tactic games. If you liked this game check out the GBA tactics ogre knight of lodis
FFT: up to 5 characters (4 if there are 2 or more guest units)
Max people "storage" is 16 in original and 20 in WotL version.
TO: up to 10 characters at least in original. In remake max people you can bring varies but it's usually 10 people in story battles.
Max people "storage" is 30 in original PS1 version and 50 in PSP/Reborn remake.
@@wedasantika6079 Are you sure it's 50? I've got maybe 80 and counting so far. I think it might be 100 in Reborn.
@@ValeVin PSP version
Once I recruit 51st person I should toss another unit or else s/he can't join.
I beat Triangle Strategy and I believe that story was so absolutely boring, but yeah the battles were fun. I never connected with Triangle Story's STORY, and I completed the game. I just.. really kept thinking the story would get better and it kind of stayed basic. Nothing ever felt like it surprised me or took me off guard. And everything was about Salt.. everything.
Even the negative reviews are about salt. :)
@@robertdouth8979 straight up
In fairness. In real life the discovery that salt could be used to preserve meat was a game changer for every human society. No longer did you have to immediately cook the meat from a kill because it would quickly spoil, you could preserve it for later and even ship it to sell at market. It was to the ancient world what refrigeration was to early 20th century America.
Triangle Strategy was not even all that good. It had very little customization which is a must in big tactics games. I liked it, but its a 7/10.
I would love to see square go further with Triangle strategy
Or... bring another Final Fantasy Tactics. They really need to milk those furries.
Nostalgia is so powerful for some. I felt the same way. This is such a chore, all the slow ui stuff. Then i tried the demo of triangle strategy and it just had the stuff i was missing. Guess I should have watched more game play videos
I feel you. I played Triangle Strategy and Tactics Ogre in the same order as you did, and I definitely felt like playing Triangle first really dampened my enjoyment and enthusiasm for Tactics Ogre (still a good game). A thought that frequently went through my mind was "I could be having more fun with another playthrough of Triangle." In fact, that's the same thing I think when trying to go back and finish FE Three Houses haha. Three Houses was just such a tedious grind with all of its social interactions that I never completed it; I just wanted to play an SRPG, not a social sim. After playing the super refined Triangle Strategy, I don't know if I can play any other SRPG without comparing them to what I consider the best, most polished SRPG of all time haha
Agreed. Triangle Strategy is such an amazing game. You have any similar recommendations?
@@basedmek Banner Saga is a good shout with a very unique art style. Valkyria Chronicles is also highly regarded oldie. Then there's always XCom too
i agree, Triangle Stratagy really felt like the devs sat down and really hammered out what worked, what didn't and what was too much scope creep for a sRPG that they wanted to get mass appeal for. the TO dev is kind of a systems whore with all his games lol vagrant story still remains so fucking obtuse to my brain
this is $15 off at amazon and target now
Wish it was easier to get member points. I got a scarf that’s really nice and a cheap reusable tote bag from it. At one point they had license plate holders that said “my other rides a chocobo”… so corny, but I need it lmao
15:50 that's what makes this game so good though. Your honesty is admirable though, Ive played great games that just didn't resonate with me as well.
Older games are going to be hit and miss for a lot of people because standards of game design have improved over time. Someone playing Tactics Ogre on release is going to be far more impressed with it compared to all the options available now. Between X-Com, Fire Emblem, Triangle Strategy and a bunch of other games, it's not surprising to be honest.
I'm someone who played Ocarina of Time many years after release - I owned an SNES and a GameCube, not an N64. I honestly thought the game was obtuse, had poor pacing and really ugly graphics. I also genuinely felt that every Zelda game that came after it was superior. I know people who grew up with Ocarina don't agree with me, but in a way, I feel like I'm more objective precisely because I didn't play it on release.
I was enjoying this game but the level cap kind of killed it for me. In chapter 3 it felt like I was level 19 for 10 hours at least. The story never grabbed me but I also was distracted with a newborn. Maybe I will get back to finishing it but man I wish the progression felt better.
I like the game but the part where you are stuck at level 19 is brutal. Especially as you get out leveled in those last few fights.
Yea the level cap was a bad idea imo. Takes away from the freedom of choice in the game
Yeah, newborns do suck a lot of time to anyone.
I forgot I commented on this lol. I've never played Tactics Ogre, Triangle Strategy, or Octopath Traveller 1 or 2. I've only played Final Fantasy Tactics, FF Tactics Advance, and FF Tactics A2 for the DS. Hope these other games are worth getting into
Great videos today Matty! I'm excited to finally try out Tactics Ogre and I love your honesty in your videos. Keep up the great work. And I hope the new video release schedule is going well for you.
I didn't play this game until recently so I didn't go in with any bias. Im a hardcore strategy rpg fan but I can agree Tactics Ogre has some 90s clunk that can make it harder to get into in both writing and gameplay. Still liked it a lot though.
I think it's so sad that you need to be so catious with having any negative opinion about a popular game, needing to wrap it over and over in cotton candy just so people won't rage in the comment section. Online climate at it's worst man. Now I don't blame you for doing it, but people on the other end who just REACT with a big R need to just chill and grow up.
Need a tissue?
As someone who thought (and still thinks to this day) FF7 was really bad, I get this sentiment.
@@pauls9034 it seems like you're the upset one. You're the one here crying over a valid criticism of what the online sphere surrounding video games, music, TV shows/movies, politics and books tend to have. There's too many babies like yourself who can't accept that not everyone will enjoy a popular game, that usually is popular due to nostalgia, and it being a product that helped to progress a certain genre/sub-genre of said product, bit doesn't necessarily hold up today 20+ years later.
Maybe age is a thing. I was introduced to tactics games with fft when it came out. Then got tactics ogre on ps1 and loved it but not as much as fft. Played triangle strategy and lost interest quick as the story aspects just dragged on and the class customization is very limited. Tactics ogre reborn is the original game but way better. And you don't need wiki just read the Warren reports
My experience with all three games, mirrors yours, exactly.
Having a lot of free time as a kid does help to hook up with a videogame, more in a time where you could only afford a couple each year.
I’m with you, man. Triangle Strategy is the goods.
Oh, this was really interesting to watch, because I'm the exact opposite. (I still hit like on the video, of course, don't worry!) For me, I put a lot of time into Triangle Strategy to see all of the endings and recruit everyone, but it always felt like a watered down version of Tactics Ogre, and it left me unsatisfied. I'd played Fell Seal, whose class system felt like a much better version of Final Fantasy Tactics', and compared to Fell Seal, Triangle disappointed me.
Loading up Tactics Ogre: Reborn felt like... a reminder of why I fell in love with the genre in the first place. The voice acting, the combat, the classes, the choices. I went into the game expecting it to be the best game ever made, a sure way to disappoint myself, and... I wasn't disappointed. I haven't quite beaten it yet, so there's still time to disappoint, but I'm close to the end now, and I love how much post-game and epilogue content is available if I'm still having fun.
For a while, the old Tactics Ogre: Let Us Cling Together was neck-and-neck with Final Fantasy Tactics: War of the Lions for me. For single player, LUCT would pull ahead, but War of the Lions had that fun cooperative multiplayer option, and I spent a lot of time saving chocobos with friends. But with Reborn, there's now no close second place for me.
I won't talk bad about Triangle Strategy because I know how much you love it, but it's funny how these things end up. (I should add, did you play Jeanne d'Arc? Triangle Strategy feels like a direct successor to that particular flavor of Tactical RPG.)
In terms of FF12 needing a second look... I'll add that I tried to play the Super Nintendo version of Tactics Ogre as a very small child when we rented it from Blockbuster, and I didn't get into it then. So LUCT was my second bite of the tactical apple, so to speak, and Reborn was my third. I also replayed the Ogre series a little before Reborn's release. They're all incredibly fun, but Reborn is really the star of the series for me.
Anyways, thanks for the video =] Now to see if Coffee Potato has commented on it already since he appears in the comments of all ogre videos...
As someone who has nearly 10 days worth of play time in Reborn (playing since November 11th, 2022), I just want to put out a general statement. Most of the problems listed in the video are subjective: for example, I've never confused my units with the enemy. I do not miss having a camera that rotates 360 degree. And I do not think that Triangle Strategy "does it better." I also do not think that Tactics Ogre "does it better." I think they're both excellent games, which are worthy of your time and money.
Throwing in the towel after a mere 20 hours (especially if you're a new player and therefore playing at a slower pace than someone initiated) means you merely scratched the surface of what Tactics Ogre has to offer. It takes about 30-40 hours into Tactics Ogre before the story and full gameplay mechanics really start to take off. Perhaps you gave up too soon.
It's fine to enjoy one similar game more than another. But I think that constantly comparing two games is an unproductive way to approach a game of any genre. I plan to pick up Triangle Strategy, and you can bet your bottom dollar I will not be comparing it to Tactics Ogre in the back of my mind.
I also play a game called Pathfinder: Wrath of the Righteous. It's another incredible game, with almost unlimited replayability and incredibly deep combat and story. Yet I do not constantly compare that game to Divinity: Original Sin 2 -- which is, in some ways, a remarkably similar game. If you look up their ratings on Metacritic, you'll see that both Pathfinder: Wrath of the Righteous and Divinity: Original Sin 2 have excellent critical scores. Yet the more I play both, the more I can see past the similarities and recognize their differences - in a purely positive way.
Now if you look at Tactics Ogre and Triangle Strategy on Metacritic, you'll notice that 1) both have high critical reviews, with only a point or two difference between them, and 2) both games have been heavily criticized by the "gaming critics community" (a "community" which I've lost respect for). But my point is that both games are similar on the surface - even in overall score - but excellent nonetheless, and if you give them both time you'll see that they have plenty of their own unique charm.
You obviously own TO: Reborn. Perhaps if you started from the beginning and made it a point to not privately compare it to Triangle Strategy in your mind, you'd enjoy the experience more.
(Also, I did like and subscribe, even if I disagree with this particular matter. Your channel itself is very good, and you seem to give your reviews thoughtful analysis.)
Oh man, Matty.... This is dangerous territory.
I hate to say this. But I think you're wrong on many points 😂
When you compare to Triangle Strategy, it's baffling. Triangle Strategy had the upside of a streamlined interface and gameplay. That's about it. Everything else is much better done in Tactics Ogre.
-The story and writing were so poor in Triangle Strategy. Tactics Ogre is embarrassingly better written. Different leagues. The story really deals with moral boundaries and interesting situations.
-The DEPTH. Triangle Strategy is a puddle. Tactics Ogre is a lake.
-The choices! Triangle Strategy has very few decisions that actually change the plot. Tactics Ogre has wildly different routes.
-The lore. Triangle Strategy felt like a theatre show on display. The world felt shallow because there's so little actually going on. Tactics Ogre has a rich lore and overarching story. Many characters that you barely see are given wonderful descriptions in the Warren Report. It's a bit like Trails in that regard.
I know what map you are talking about. I can picture it right now. Oh my gosh.... Matty ... you barely made it 1/4th into the game. I understand 25 hours is a large investment. But how can you praise Trails, a series that requires 40+ hours to get to the good stuff, in the same breath?
Fair enough that the game didn't grab you. I don't understand it. (Especially, again, compared to Triangle Strategy. So confusing. Considering what it lacked compared to it's forefather.)
Something to revisit at another time.
Edit: I want to add that the UI and menu system is absolutely a clunky and unwanted remnant from the past. The camera is also a bother. But less so a deal breaker. Neither of these issues detract much from what this game accomplishes so well.
10:20 haven't tried the remastered game yet. Kinda played both LUCT and Lodis, is the sprite in the new one that bad? As a kid i kinda remembered it being just BLUE good, RED bad.
Happy I bought my copy. Triangle Strategy & Ys:Origin is next.
I downloaded both and stopped playing triangle strategy because it was too long winded for me and the dialog and VA was very subpar. Tactics Ogre Reborn has a fantastic game play, VA and story with excellent difficulty and replayability compared to Triangle Strategy. Triangle Strategy lacks customization and that's kinda lame. Tactics Ogre Reborn is awesome and so much better than Triangle Strategy, but I respect ur opinion.
Your kind is hurting RPGs. Don’t come on to this video just to cope over your game getting blasted while at the same time showing your terrible ability for appreciating good games…
@@kingrobotnik6950 hope ur life is better for that comment and Happy New Year
@@kingrobotnik6950 Ratio'd
I appreciate you making this video and being straightforward about your experience because hey, it was your experience, so it's valid. Nobody can accuse you of being unfair
This game is a masterpiece!
Can’t believe this channel is already so close to 100k - good job Matty!
Shocked played the snes PPS1port verson, the PSP version and Swich one. All A amazing game lead to LUCT's new characters I love. I think it's on FFT's level and the paths may make it better. FFT got me into being it's dad.
I had an opposite experience where I reaaaaally wanted to love triangle strategy but it kind of fell flat for me. I never played tactics ogre and I unexpectedly loved it!
In TO the varied cast and the options of recruiting mid battle really changed the way I strategized battles and team comps! In TS I felt a bit more limited in setup, especially since you unlock all the skills towards the end of the first playthrough/ start of the 2nd.
I agree with a lot of the QoL stuff like the camera angles and the story factions in TO being harder to grasp
usually, those who hate let us cling together
would love the gba exclusive title the knight of Lodis
though I'm not sure that's the case
The dialogue in Triangle Strategy made it unplayable to me.
I’m honestly shocked the game didn’t hit for you. As for myself I ended up dumping 180 hours into and got the platinum.
Been kind of fan of these genre’s because although they may be difficult and has their own problems. They have their moments.
If your trying old. Games I say give the legaia series a chance. Kinda under the Rader. I only played the second one and I had a lot of fun.
Legend of legaia is in my top 4 games of all time
@@killakenny517 I only played legaia duel saga that was my favorite ps2 game next to a couple wrestling and dbz ones. I wish I still had it
No hate, have you played Final Fantasy Tactics?
Stop Matty you’re breaking my heart 😭
But I’m also an adult and can respect someone having a different opinion then me 🤝
Maybe the Chariot Tarot and Warren Report would have solved most the issues you have with the game ^^. Seems you missed some core mechanics, not judging just saying ^^
Yup if it isn't a western rpg..... Fallout he doesn't like it
Is there a reason why you played the psp remaster instead of reborn? This game is fantastic honestly lol.
Any rpgs this guy ever played before?
@21:36 You can spare that woman
Yea tactics ogre isn’t for everyone. I’m really into it, but it’s because I played the ps1 version so many years ago!
Why isn't the main Mr Matty Plays channel listed in this channel's list of "Channels"?
Wow, surprised but I get it. The camera angles ARE very bad. But I thought the story was very strong and your ability to customize characters was great. But yea, if you aren't hooked early on, drop it. It's not a game that gets good late in. it's always good (or always bad)
By that logic there isn't any reason to play half life and all classic games because all modern games are better.
Eh, sounds like, as is often the case in negative reviews for this game / the PSP version, that you got filtered when the game asked you to apply tactics for real instead of just blindly bruteforcing your way through over-levelling. I blame Fire Emblem for giving people the unreasonable expectation that you can just throw your team at the meat grinder and mostly get out victorious through only good unit placement. While less true nowadays with the series being more popular, it's somewhat similar to SMT making people rage because they never expected to had to use buffs/debuffs. Even without being a tactical wizard, only applying this make the game difficulty go down to "normal" levels.
Also small free hate on my part, can be ignored, but lmao the "strategy" asked from player in Triangle Strategy is an absolute joke.
Dude don’t cope. Nobody has an issue with buffing and careful planning. Plus, Fire Emblem and games like this are different. If you payed attention you would know that is a terrible comparison. As well as using SMT. Those games require different strategy than this to where the buffs/debuffs have different expectations. Expectations that, let’s be real can be abnormal. Also, you sound like the kinda clown to play very easy and whine about it’s not hard and doesn’t require strategy.
Thanks for the point of view, even when disagreed with. I love knowing it always comes from an honest place. Best wishes for a Merry Xmas to you and your family Matty
I really tried to like this game but the UI and micro managing 20 units really killed it for me. Just felt like homework
you are wrong when you said navigating the HUD in the menu "it's clearly a product of its time". because that's not how the HUD looks at all in the original. it only got more complicated after the PSP version, and then changed again in reborn version. though to be fair, the original HUD does look simplistic, dated, and lacks customization, but at the same time, more effective and less time consuming.
that being said, I'm also not a fan of how complicated character management has become (in reborn. I actually like it in PSP version).
I ain’t even watch the video yet and know you had to love it if you a FF Tactics fan edit: well i was proved wrong. Doesn’t make any sense but alright lol
He didn't.
@@Official_RetroMania lol rip. That actually makes no sense
Seriously how can you not love this game
Thanks for saving me 23 minutes at least.
I loved FFT and while I liked this game I definitely don’t put it up there with FFT. Classes and characters are so much more restrictive compared to how free you were to customize in FFT, and yeah the story doesn’t hit anywhere the same for me personally. Like he says they introduce the plot much worse, they drop a lot of names and stuff early on that they somehow expect you to know. I had to Wikipedia some stuff just like he did to try and make sense of it early on
Awesome video
Too much dialogue in Triangle Strategy. Sometimes I just want to play a video game. I don't want to read a book just to play the game. Tactics Ogre all the way for me.
Honestly I found the world building in triangle strategy to be quite weak in comparison to the world of tactics ogre. I could never get over the cognitive disanence of salt being so scarce. Furthermore the world being so neatly divided into 3 very distinct parts also seemed quite unrealistic.
I've looked into this game because I'm interested in playing it, and according to one breakdown on the matter I saw, a lot of changes were made in Reborn compared to previous versions that might sognificantly contribute to the issues you had with the game, including how often the AI let you down, and how tedious battles could be. Not sure myself though, I'm going off thirdhand information from user reviews. I'll bave to keep looking into the differences between versions.
Its a tactics games thats heavily based on RNG wich kills the whole "tactics" aspect. Not to mention the pacing was awful filled with a lot of padding missions, especially on the later half of the game. I really disliked it sadly
Try chained Echoes!! Its on gamepass and all say its really good!!
Skipped this even though I wanted to play it and instead bought chained echoes.... Pretty happy with my decision tbh
Bro didn't get the chocolate wepon or armor
Playing TO after Triangle Strategy made me appreciate that not every strategy game needs the threat of permadeath
You gotta love the amount of cope in the comments to the point where people are whinging about Triangle Strategy. An awesome game that deserves the love it’s getting. Learn to accept that people have different opinions and if you’re going to bring up other games, please use intelligent critiques, not crybaby nonsense…😂
Very embarassing base.
I think this is the first time I've seen someone say Triangle Strategy was a better game than Tactics Ogre
I agree. This is such a hot take. It burns my hands.
I've never seen this sentiment.
It’s kinda true though. Triangle Strategy is where it’s at.
@@TIDbitRETRO hard disagree but to each their own, Triangle Strategy's enemy AI was just way to easy to manipulate and the game's pacing was a slog imo
Same
I agree
Video starts at 8:40
First view and comment!!!! Love your stuff bro!!! Keep it up. My favorite person who reviews retro/retro style games!!!!!
Here are some things it did better than Triangle Strat:
1. Voice work
2. Dialogue writing
3. The dialogue pop ups and font
4. Story was a little more grounded less anime teen drama like (subjective)
5. Prettier Art.
6. I personally like the visuals of the grid squares as its quite hard to see sometimes in Triangle.
to be honest, didnt like the remake, I prefer the original.
tactics ogre battle mechanics is a lot more deeper then triangle strategy so really the newer game is weaker then the older game
I agree. I thought I would love Triangle Strategy, but it didn't nail the core gameplay that I was looking for.
Damn... not only did you not enjoy it, you didn't enjoy it to the point it's one of the few games you didn't even finish for a review... that's rough man, I hate to hear that.
You have to DISCOVER what is going on! So stop bitchin’ about how confusing the conflict is…
basically, you just don't like the graphics. You did not understand the story because you haven't gotten far from it. Played Tactics Ogre on PS1, PSP, and Steam. I played Final Fantasy Tactics from PS1, and PSP and played Triangle Strategy. I played all of these 3 games for hundreds of hours. Tactics Ogre is for real hardcore SRPG gamers and Triangle Strategy is for newer players. If I'll rank these 3 games. Tactics Ogre > Final Fantasy Tactics > Triangle Strategy.
I know you're intention with bringing up Triangle Strategy but tbh, the constant comparisons and just uneeded mentions at points really just turned me off from checking the game. I would of just not mentioned the game to begin with and just went in on the criticisms.
Do you know about the turn rewind function by chance? The part where you were talking about the Guest AI dying constantly and needing to reload a save isn't needed when you could just rewind a couple of turns and have a different outcome (changing the action in chariot changes up the actions for the turns after so it's not like you rewinded a turn and see the same results, it's different results when you change your action on chariot for you and everyone's turn after)
Sure do miss the pickup’s video 🤷🏼♂️
The start of the game you are the weakest and that fight you mentioned made me stop playing as well the first time I got the game, I didn't rage quit, just put it down for next try tomorrow which I didnt pick it back up.
However came back started a new save and beat the beginning, after that the game is way easier but still has some difficult fights like the one you mentioned.
Getting exp is easier, more magic options, way more unique characters, I think 4 join at same time. The story choices are great which you hardly talked about meaning you quit very very early.
Definitely try again one day. Honestly though I didn't finish it yet but I blame most of that on my PSP battery/charger not being the best.
You don't need to like it, is fine not every game is for everyone. I assume you are not a tactical strategy RPG guy, well me either although I can enjoy them.
I don't appreciate the Purdue pull over.......go Hoosiers lol