I have a twin turbo 4wd Silverado 6.0L with the 4L65E making 940hp.... 5 years strong... transmission is perfect. I just don't start it up or drive it.... Will last me forever
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I swear you are making at least 1200, maybe 1500 horsies. Why not exaggerate a bit over shots. I'm game!
I blew apart a 4l60e on my supercharged 98 S-10 SS 4.3 making 470whp @ 30k. I also sheared the output shaft on my tune only 4.8 RCSB 4x4 Sierra with 33s. This video is all kinds of good advice.
@@NativeDescent Vortech sq2 kit at 15psi (one of the first to have the kit back in 99-00). Port and polished heads. Comp cam 270, meth injection, 2114 Edelbrock manifold MPFI conversion speed density tune with 411pcm. I don't have that setup anymore. The timing chain went. Eventually will be working on a twin turbo setup for about 800hp when the money is right. I have a lot of the parts, just gotta get a motor built to handle it.
I had a built 60e built by Brinkley Transmission in Kinston NC about 5 years ago for my sb Silverado with a lq9, cammed, converter 9.5 inch, full exhaust, 3.73 gears. I paid right at 1550 for the rebuild and that thing worked flawless! I raced that truck any and everywhere and it never missed a beat!
Thank you for the information I really didn't want to hear. I just dropped almost 2k on building a 4L65 that can't even stand up to my mild 5.3. I guess you never get too old to get schooled. Now to find a Turbo 400 or a Tremec TKO
I just picked up a 6.0 yesterday and been looking for a 4l80e I was wondering about the years.. you answered my question. Thank you P.s seems to me then 4l80’s way cheaper in Michigan than Chicagoland area. I’ll be in three river,mi next week so hope I find one that way.
They're probably cheaper in Wisconsin too. We have more trucks getting destroyed in wrecks and by weather, you have more people building serious street cars
4l80e for me .I just found out with HD -3 transgo shift kit makes it full manual ! No computer no tps ! And lock up does work . What ever gear you put it in it will take off but I would advise to start in first and run thru your gears . You will have to run a deep pan to clear the valve body mod I'm building a 69 chevelle with 468 good balanced bottom and hydraulic roller. I think the transmission will work out for me. Thanks for sharing your videos!!
I have PTSD just looking at a 4L60e. I've been through about 5 "end all be all" builds and eventually swapped to a TH400. I can live without the overdrive vs spending thousands of dollars every year on a 4L60e.
I removed the THM375 (THM400 with longer tailshaft) in my 1990 454SS Truck. I built a 4L80E with heavy parts and installed in my truck. I used a Compushift electronic shifter. That was in 2006. Still running good. I installed a heavy duty cooler with fan for cooling up front.
Would love to hear your thoughts on the best transmission to use on a 4x4! Love all the vids, you seem like the most honest and knowledgable guy I have listened to on TH-cam.
I guess it depends on alot of factors. I like the 4l80 in a 4x4, but having to get new shafts and stuff, I understand why people resist swapping in that instance. It's kind of why I just buy 3/4 4x4's to start with myself.
@@TheDrivewayEngineer also interested in 4 by 4 trans. How much hp would the 4l60 support ? Not running it hard since it come in 2nd gen tahoes and I’m sure a lot more? But do have bigger tires and rims
Ive been through 5 4l60e's. 3 of them within a span of 8 months. Had all the bells and whistles. Roasting em with a little 4.8 with a baby bumstick. Good video
Give me that legendary TH400! I gotta a stock th400 behind a 496 big block with 565hp/600tq in a 68 Impala, I beat the hell out it, and she's still shifting like butter. Crazy thing is it the original transmission from 1968👍👍 4l80e are beast transmissions just costly.
Im glad you brought up S10 in your video. I have 4.3L in mine and I cruise. Nothing fancy power wise but I'm thinking about doing a 4L80E swap into it later on when the 4L60E goes out. I work construction and this truck works perfectly for what I use it for. I love the 4.3L, solid motors but I don't trust 4L60E transmissions.
I've melted my 4L60E bumping the boost (from 5 PSI to 11 PSI)of my Magnusom Supercharged 2006 Tahoe with a iron block but 799 heads BTR Truck Norris 5.3, and going 4L80E, no doubt. Great, simple, straight to the point video.
I got a 97 1 ton 454 80E brought it in 2002 with 78 thousand pulled a 38 foot 5th wheel all over the mid west to ND, SD, NE, WY, MT, ID, UT, NM, AZ for ten years now has a 160 thousand and still pulls a new one 900 miles to WY every year no problems.
Mmm men. Im a rebuilt my blazer v6. With almost beat up clutches. With reheat toque converter. And I haul trailer with carpet and tile. Heavy tile carpet. And has metal residuals. I just change filtre when it doesnt shift
I finally bit the bullet and getting a 4L80E myself. My local performance shop told me "if it's built right", too. It just can't be built right, I don't care if you use the best Transmission builder, buy "Sonnax this" and "Smart shell" that, etc. If it holds up a year for me, that's being lucky. I start having shift problems long before that. On the street, if I don't feather it, even with Mickey Thompson ET Street SS's (27.5 and 28" tires and 3.73 rear) the car will spin through 1st and 2nd and most of the way through 3rd. I replaced my 10 Bolt rear years ago and stopped breaking rear ends. The 4L60E just can't do it. I can't even finish locking my tune in with WOTs before the transmission is slipping or breaking something. Bye 4L60E.
Have a 4l85e in my tahoe after blowing 2 60e trans with a cammed 6.0 My 85e just breezes thru shifts that would make my 60e feel like it was going to shatter. The transgo kit works well but Sonnax makes a relief valve so you don't have to drill the valvebody like transgo recommends. Transgo's pressure relief could potentially cause you to burn down your trans if it sticks open.
I recently just put a cam in my 5.3 and did the whole valve train, nothing special really just wanted a bit more power, I got a 1999 Chevy 1500 4x4 and stuck with 60 mainly because I won’t be making crazy power prolly nothing over 350 to the wheels and that’s good for me but anything more and I would have got a 80. I beat the living shit out of this trans and it just won’t die I knew the guy who built it and said have it and I have!! Buddy’s of mine have put TONES of these in stock 5.3s and 4.3s and they just died, I killed my stock one 2 days after I bought the truck but it had lived it’s live at 300k but so far after 6 months of brutal abuse on this trans I would recommend it if your JUST doing a cam that’s it. That’s just my person experiences but everyone knows that the 80 is without a doubt the best case in all applications.
Got a 2000 Gmc 3500 work truck and not a dully ,owned since new and just keeping it tuned and full of fresh oils keeps me running down the freeway at 80 mpg with 6000 pound of load comfortable ride with 30 2X4 studs on the lumber rack and a 4L80E Allison tranny included!
I think there's a lot of folks here that are misunderstanding the 4L60 transmission, or any "factory" GM trans. In the R&D world of automotive, there's a cost that's always monitored. If you've read the headlines on the Ford ZF transmission, then you'd fully understand. The 4L series transmissions ALL have their limitations. When these transmissions are designed and built, their done so with driver comfort in mind. Every manufacturer does it. Every transmission is only designed to last through warranty. Automatics by their very design will not last forever. They will wear out eventually. Some last longer than others, it all depends on the driver habits. I've never replaced a 4L series transmission, in any vehicle I own. Neglect and abuse is what kills transmissions. Is a 4L80 the way to go in a performance application, sure! Will the 4L60 survive in a performance application, yes it will. In a mild performance application, the 4L 60 is a great transmission. If someone builds a 1000+ hp car, then the 4l60 is probably not the best choice for a transmission. The 4L80 isn't a good choice either. At WOT throttle, the 4th gear isnt used anyways. The 4L60 has limitations! If it didn't, then those transmissions would've been used in everything. The 4L60 was used in many GM car and trucks. GM would've stopped using them if they were problematic a long time ago. I saw a post about someone complaining about a 4l60 going out after mounting 33" tires and wheels. Are you aware of how heavy those wheels are? I have a set of 35" tires from a Silverado that had a blown transmission. Guess what, that trans was fried! The failure was due to the excessive TCC slippage. The wheels are heavy, and it takes a lot of horsepower to turn them. There's a lot of rotational mass that the trans has to get turning, on top of getting the vehicle up to speed. The excessive slippage caused the TCC to fail and send garbage all through the trans, consequently destroying the trans. Again neglect and abuse. You can't put gobs of hp/torque through a stock transmission, blow it up, and complain about it. Remember neglect and abuse! These transmissions were made for stock applications. 33" tires are not stock. I'm not trying to start a pissing contest with anyone, but I just don't get why people are complaining about the 4L60. It was never intended to be a performance transmission. Quit calling the 4L60 transmission garbage, when failures 99% of the time are caused by the owner.
@@TheDrivewayEngineer Ok like I posted before, I'm not trying to start an argument here. Your claim of electronic protection removal puts it on borrowed time is based on what evidence? What protections are you referring too? I'm very close with these series of transmissions. I've been around them, inspected them, rebuilt them, and destroyed them since 1992. I think you made a decent video, but you praised the 4L80. In reality, it can only hold about 80 ft lbs more torque that the 4L60. If you know the common failure points of the 4L series transmissions, then you can actually make these transmissions withstand more. I've been a mechanical engineer for going on 40 years, with also a degree in metallurgy. If you take a thin piece of metal, flex it back and forth, eventually it's going to break. Flexing a piece of metal beyond it's serviceable limit causes microscopic stress cracks. Those cracks eventually propagate out from the original starting point, until the cracks meet. What do you think happens inside a transmission. Neglect and abuse will push the design limits of the internal components, until a failure occurs. I'm sorry, but you can't fault the 4L60 for design. Again your video wasn't bad at all, but it was very one-sided. You praised the 4L80 as being almost bulletproof, when they are not. It really wasn't a bad video.
@@demontech06 all I'm saying in the video is if you have a choice, and it's a performance application, start with the 80. In reality with no type of power reduction on shifts, it's capable of 800 ft/lbs on the input shaft before failure. A 60 is capable of about 2 dozen WOT 2-3 shifts at the 400 ft/lb level before clutch pack failure. I'm not interested in, or talking about some soccer mom's stock Tahoe or grand dad's Silverado. The transmissions work fine for what they were intended to do, give a deep first gear to under powered pigs of trucks and SUV's so they feel powerful, and give them a deep overdrive to maintain mid teen fuel economy. They were never intended for the power people attempt to shove through them today, any fool can remove every shred of spark retard, fuel reduction, and reduce shift times to 0 on a 4l60 behind an LS with a cam and a 200 shot making 500 HP, and it will fail. Then they want to spend 1500 in aftermarket parts on it, and another 1k in labor... When a beefier transmission exists already. You can make anything better. You can make a POS 85 Sunbird run 10's if you want. If money doesn't matter to you, it's just a matter of spending some. 500 dollar donor trans versus 3x that... It's not a contest if you can physically fit it.
I had an 01 Silverado with the 4.8 making under 300 hp and the 4L60 could barely handle that power without skipping gears and not going into certain gears. Do you really think it's going to be able to handle a 1000+hp build? Jesus Christ, I hated that slush box, I'm glad somebody made this video for people like me who don't study transmissions as much. When I LS swap my Cheyenne, it's either getting a 4L80 or a TKO-500 (it's already a manual truck SM-465 gearbox).
Interesting thought about the 700r4. I put a 4.8 in my K5 Blazer and kept my 700r4 with no adapter from Bowtie Overdrive, I made it for free with a welder and some scrap steel. I might post a video on it. The engine isn't making any power over stock
If you upgrade all the hard parts in a 60 they hold up pretty well.... But it is pretty expensive lol My 60e puts up with 150 shot nitrous launches on et street r’s in a 5000lbs truck.... 🤷♂️
He’s right!!! I have a 4l60e built. Circle d torque converter, 2800 stall, corvette servo, shift kit, heavy duty flex plate on a 01 ws6, its a mild build but that 4l80 is better....
I subbed just because I Appriciate how spot on JR just slays the snot out of us for the stupid decisions we've made and hard earned money we have all wasted as a result. He's mad for us as much as he is at us! Rock on JR!
I have an 05 gto with the 4l65e that somebody had rebuilt and upgraded at 80k miles, car has 133k miles. When it does eventually go out, I’ll either upgrade to a 4l80 or a 6l80. I don’t anticipate it going out anytime soon as I don’t dog on it all the time, so it’ll hopefully be a couple years before I do the swap
Well I'm doing well on my current 4L60E, behind a stock 99 LS1 in a 2700 lb car with a 3600 yank stall. After 2 went out.... 1st was my fault (forgot to fill it after the swap) 2nd they (performa-)built a POS that went out in 1500 miles..... Then a local trans guy rebuilt that( fixed the problem), and it's been in the car ~8 years. Next one will be an 80 with a similar stall.
You asked, what transmission should you run with your LSswap. What kind of motor is an LSswap? Wouldn't it be, what transmission to run with your LS not LSswap? LS swap is a verb isnt it?
I 100% agree! I've had 2 4l60's and then a upgraded 4l65 with extra clutches and all the trick stuff, in a s10 6.0 with heads and a cam basically. It lasted about 2 years with good trans temps.
Everything that was bought, was bought from Dana at I believe Performance Automatic in CA, but I can't remember the name of his company for sure.The valvebody was done by him. You send it in, and he checks it, repairs whatever it needs, and sets up the hole sizing. As for what failed, it's what always fails in these, the 2-3 clutch pack. The pressure was checked both directly after install, and a month or so after, and was told it was great. My 4l80, just keeps taking it. I probably should change the fluid in it at this point. Never had to even think about that with a 60.
I just spend $1000 building my 4L60 but it’s in my 4x4 obs and I need it back on the road ASAP.I would love to have the 4L80 but I wasn’t sure how extensive it would be to get it all together etc
The 60e can be built to handle 700+ hp. The 80e is not exactly unbreakable, but it is tougher, for sure. Making an 80e fit into your vehicle can take some chop-work, too.
Before I even watched this I was thinking 4L80E since it is the step up from 4L60E. why would you not go with the better option is beyond me? Still people do it though!
Monster sends you a mock up transmission basically. You need to completely tear it back down and actually make it right but they atleast send you everything together lol you get what you pay for though.If you can’t build your own,I would recommend a local salvage yard before I would buy from them.
In defense of the 4L60E performance pack basically a 4L65E in my 2002 Camaro, its got 105 thousand hard miles on it and still bangs gears like a champ. They are rated from GM for 380HP max. that means 380 and less guys, not 400.. not 450hp... 380 at the max lol. and it does that just fine, honestly for what its rated for 380hp its a great tranny my only complaint is the shifts are too soft in them, you need a shift kit... its 100% required. get a god dam shit kit. lol NOW my point of this comment was only to say for a 380hp and LESS application the 4L60E performance pack tranny and 4L65E are great, BUT if you plan on going over 4 hundo then get a 4L80 its the same price... literally the same price. I personally don't want an automatic at all, I will be tearing out a majestic 4L60E that actually works perfect and putting in a T56 manual. Because I don't give a flying fuck about drag times I care about having fun and being able to have 100% control over what gear I'm in and having 6 of them to choose from. That being said don't let people scare you into thinking a 4L60 is junk, if you have something like a 350 v8 putting out maybe 280horse power a 4L60 can and WILL handle it just fine with a corvette servo/shift kit. plus a better torque converter helps too, I have a 3000 stall currently ( for reference) I'm just saying if you have the choice go with a 4L80, if you don't, then use the 4L60, it'll be FINE.
Another thing to note is your car weight. A truck @ 380whp with the added weight probably would shell it. Weight makes a huge difference, we can put down over 300whp on little 4 cylinder autos but the car weighs almost nothing. That's why the 4l80 is so much better, it's built to be under huge trucks. I'm not trying to dis what you are saying but there is more involved to longevity of the 4L60 than WHP alone.
There are less than a handful of 4l60e builders in the country that can build a 4l60e right. But cost wise it's not in the same ball park as a 4l80e. The downside is the 4l80 is not a direct swap into some vehicles, without a bfh. Rpm is overpriced for 4l60e. Another shop in Maryland. Cahall performance transmissions. Very good 4l60e builder and decent prices. Check the site.
Yeah there are people out there who can build them, I can build one, I know the parts it takes. I also know what they cost, and man that could buy a couple 4L80s However, like C5 cars, etc some just can't swap that easy, and that sucks.
Thks good video i like what you said but I have payed to have the 4l60 rebuild and the up grades its a stock 5.3 in my 1974 surberbon I had bought the howlle wiring harness ill do the 4l80 next on thks
I think some people are coming here expecting just a comparison of the trans on regular cars and thats where they will disagree. For example, I had my 4l60e "built"...and by built, I just mean a stage 1 at a builder that only builds GM transmissions. It was only $800 also. (Yeah, the price is cheap, but this guy cranks out these transmissions and has very low overhead. The guy only had 5 star reviews everywhere I go).Couldn't be more than happy. I've hauled up and down mountains with it and have it in my truck that hauls quite a bit at times. About 7k lbs usually. With that said, I have a bigger trans cooler, I don't run the truck hard and the engine is stock. If I had a high power engine or towed several times a week, I wouldn't even consider the 60.
@@TheDrivewayEngineer Yep! I'm looking at towing closer to 10k a few times a year (duramax on a trailer) and debating whether I should upgrade my truck overall. It's hard to get rid of a good old truck (5.3 1500) that you trust. I'm more worried about the suspension than the trans......all while I have a 6.0 2500hd that I'm selling lol
Did he say he's got less than $5000 dollars in his truck and takes it to the track? $5000 dollars for a truck usually means it needs new plugs, wires, tires, brakes, ect.... Just wondering, win many races? A 4L60 is not built for a drag car. Dont blame the transmission for sucking ass when used in a drag car. Blame the idiot that owns the car. Its not a bad transmission if used correctly. It does have a lower 1st gear ratio than most other transmissions. Thats better for spinning tires. Im just busting balls here. Youre correct about the 2 transmissions in this video.
I did a 4l80e swap in my 99 suburban last summer and I love it! No more 4l60e for me ever again, I have the tci standalone controller and it has worked awesome you can pretty much set it up how you want it to perform I'm getting ready to swap out my other two suburbans 4l60e for the 4l80e just that much better of a transmission!
I always laugh when I talk to someone building a hot rod and they brag about how they are going to use a 4l60 or 700r4 and I warn them that for what they are building they will not last and every time they doubt me, well usually about 2 months later when they get their car going I will ask them how well did that trans work out and every single time they will either say "you were right that thing went bad so quick" or they will say "the guy who built the trans sucked it's not the transmissions fault" and they will live in denial. Everyone I knew who went from a th350 or 400 to a 700r4 will always end up going back to the 3 speed when the 700r4 inevitably breaks. I wish that the 4l60s and 700r4s were good because they are small for an overdrive trans and used ones are easy to find. But it has been proven thousands of times over and over again that will not last in any performance application. If you are determined to use an automatic just stick with a th350 or th400 or if you need/ really want over drive do a 4l80 swap or if your rich get a gear vendors unit for a th400. The only half way decent 700r4 I ever seen was a buddy of mine spent around $4000 for a gear star fully built 700 and after about 3 years of hard driving it blew up again. And the only half decent 4l60 I have ever seen is a buddy of mine bought a turbo Silverado that has some "built" 4l60 in it with a really expensive yank converter and he has been driving it for about 2 years now and it still is working but if you make a hard pass or try to launch it the tranny shifts really weird and sometimes it will slip really bad under load and sometimes it will shift insanely hard and others really slippery. I personally dont trust it and it's only a matter of time before it completely gives up the gusto. People just dont want to listen when people who have first hand experience with this stuff tell them to stay away from the 700r4s and 4l60 but they all decide to learn the hard way and it always costs them in the long run.
Yea it happens to everyone. They fall for the sales pitch. My friend at work has a Big Block mud truck on 44's. Dana 60 front and 12 Bolt FF Rear. Then the trans shop sold him on a TH350 🤣. When I met him I asked him why he didn't just get a junkyard TH400 or a 4L80E with an aftermarket controller? He said the trans shop said a TH400 or 4L80E is stronger stock vs stock. But a TH350 can be built to be stronger than a built TH400🤣. I laughed to hard. Sounded to me like the trans shop had a built TH350 on the shelf than no one paid the bill on and then unloaded it on him. He hasn't had an issue but fuck he spent like $1500 on the damn thing.
Well dam, I just stumbled upon this video, and I am at the point I need to get OD for my mild drive to the track, dial in foot brake s10 Blazer and 78 Malibu, and 79 Monza. Talking 300-400hp. I am retired so I need my stuff to last, if it's broke I can't win any money. I am going to rethink attempting to go 4l60e route now. If my street cars were making 500+ hp, they would be race only, no need for OD. Maybe a Gear Vendors OD add on. Got me thinking now....
@@TheDrivewayEngineer Well thanks for that much needed suggestion. I got glides, 400's, stock and stepped up 350's, a tci street fighter 350 with 20 years, 100K+miles in 4 different cars, with 5k+ passes at the strip. Any one of those with a GV would drop my highway rpm down to low 2k's where I need it. My crown jewel is the 4l80e out of my 99 2500 G-van, just waiting for a car to put it in after rebuild. Going to scrap the 4l60e plans and think GV's and more 4l80e's, thanks. Looking for a good trans guy, not opposed to travel, and I will pay for good trans-advice from a bad ass transmission man, if interested. mf
I think a lot of it has to do with good old fashioned luck. I have a built 6.0 in my Silverado. Kept destroying 60’s. Cheap at the junkers, so I just kept throwing them in. Finally, I happened to get one from a junk yard that has held up to all the abuse. 2 years and still going strong.
I have a cammed 5.3/60e that I swapped in my regal . After doin a couple fun runs the 60e has delayed shifting 1-2 , no overdrive . So I change out ab solenoids , add Corvette’s servo . Still no fix on 1-2 delay shift . And now I’m doin the pinless accumulater piston & 3-2 shifter valve . Hopefully that fixes it so I can remove and sell . I got a sexy t56 6speed waiting to be swapped in
I agree in every way that a 4l80e is superior to a 60e in every single way. But real talk I had never heard of so many 60e failures until I stepped foot on the internet. I had a Manifold pressure switch failure in one and stripped a stator shaft on another. That's the only 2 issues I recall myself having. Everyones welcome to leave the "because your shits not fast enough to break them" reply that's perfectly fine. I know my shits not fast. My point is I had never heard 60e horror stories until the internet. I've got one right now that I pulled from a pick n pull with 230k+ on it. Cooler, vette servo, 3200 stall, and an HD2 were the only changes I've made. I've got a th400 on standby but so far I've put 1200 miles on it and 3, 13.xx second passes. And truth be told if I had never stepped foot on the internet I would've never thought twice about breaking it.
4 pinion planet can handle 650 hp. Before you say I'm wrong. A th350 use the same rear planet as a 700 and 4L60 use. As long as you keep the filter clean. 4 pinion planet will hold up just fine.
I'd love to do a 80e swap, but I don't like the 1st gear ratio it has. 3.06 for a 60e vs 2.48 for an 80e. Now if anyone knows if a company offers built 80e's that have a 1st ratio closer to 3.06 I'd jump on it. Changing gear rations in my differentials is a task. The rear I know everyone will say is a piece of cake but I got 4x4 so I'd have to do that too and the front diff I got isn't a piece of cake like a rear end. I got 4.10s not really looking to jump higher than that... not trying to be banging 3k rpms at 70 on the highway lol.
Ok thanks for the video . Now my question is I have a stock 4.3 and I rebuilt my 4l60 . Now in your opinion is it worth switching to the 4l80 ? Now I love to drop an ls engine in here one day.
so i have a 4l60e on a 4.8. its done for. i have a buddy who has a build 4l80. what all do i need for a swap cause ik its not a plug and play deal. how much am i looking at spending?
My Iroc came w 4L60e that supposedly was “built” to handle 700hp. Im not drinking that kool aid. But it does appear to have some new parts on it. Anyway… I only want to make 350-400 hp all said and done. Plenty enough for me to have fun. Should I stick with what I have, and put it all together and run? Or should I scrap it, and look for something else? I don’t want to modify the tunnel to fit a 4L80
So, I’m 16. About to buy my first truck from a family friend. It’s an 03 ext cab Silverado 1500 4x4 (not Z71) with a 5.3. Don’t know what tranny, but would guess a 4L60. I’m going to have fun with it(and in it😁👙)It’s got 157k miles on it, it’s a southern truck and has some rocker rust. I can tell it needs new front tie rods from driving it. It needs tires, the gauge cluster is broken, the paint sucks, and needs more things. It’s not quite a beater. I’m not like most teens. I don’t want or need a loud obnoxious exhaust, I don’t need or want a huge lift kit to make my 🍆 20in longer, I don’t need fancy light bars, you get the point. I work at a mower repair shop and work on cars, race cars, etc. I’ll be doing everything this truck needs MYSELF. I will definitely be doing things to milk power out of the 5.3, for fun, experience, and towing big, heavy racecar trailers. I laugh at my peers who have little v6 mustangs their parents bought for them and brag about the lambo doors they had a shop put on for them, along with straight pipes. They will 💩 their pants when my rusty work truck gaps them. Back to my question: The tranny has never been replaced.(Don’t think the trans fluid has ever been changed either. Doesn’t seem like it’s ever run very extremely hot, but the fluid looked like it had been in there for 157k moderately fine miles). When I do blow the automatic transmission, what do you think is my best option? Rebuild the stock tranny? Pull a 4L80 out of a crashed truck? Would a newer 4L80 out of a 2014 Chevy/gmc, for example be compatible with this 2003? I haven’t worked on/done too much research on GM transmissions, but I’m assuming I’ll need some other driveline components to accommodate the 4L80 trans...right? What will I need? Will it also need an adapter plate to the engine? Will I need to reprogram the CPU to work properly with the 4L80? Will I need an entire different CPU? Will a 4L80 consume more wHP than a 4L60? Unlike my peers, I’m not trying to go fast on the highway. That’s for the race track, in a race car. Thanks in advance for your help. If nobody answers, I can figure it out on my own, anyway. Y’all have a great day.
So a 2014 will have a 6L80, not a 4L80. In a 4x4,the simplest thing to do, is have someone rebuild the 60 for 6-800 bucks, and get on with your life. The even simpler thing to do is nothing, if it isn't broke, leave it alone. While you drive it and work on it, grab a 4L80 maybe, grab the right transfer case, grab driveshafts from a 2500 version of your bodystyle. Piece by piece collect it all and swap it when you're ready. But don't think because 4l60s suck, they do, but it doesn't mean certain death or anything. Treat it like it's your only vehicle and you don't want to go back to walking and you'll be ok.
This is exactly why 80s are getting harder to find. Every Joe has one now and probably a second one their not using. Remember, these transmissions are also 15-20 years old. They dont shift when you ask them too at WOT, they are heavy, Accelleration is slower from all the heavy rotating mass of the oversize 80 parts, and you WILL lose a minimum of 40-70 HP running one over your competitors. And if your like most Joe's, you'll put one behind a stock LS cause your extra smart. Waisted fuel mileage, waisted power, slower acceleration, over weight and lazy driving experience...but hay at least you got an 80 right! 😜 So you spend 400 at the junk yard, then when you realize the trans shifts like crap, you'll spend 2 grand rebuilding it, have to take the trans out three times and reinstall it twice, and still be down 40-70HP or more depending on your builder and your wallet. 4L60E will keep your car much more nimble, you'll have more power, faster acceleration, and a lighter car and a much more fun driving experience.
Ok, we'll go through this bit by bit, since I'm a little bored now. 1. Wasted.. Waisted would be like wearing a corset or something. Wasted is needless loss. 2. How do you know they're getting harder to find? Why are you looking for them if they're so garbage? 3. Let's see a dyno sheet of a before and after 80 swap showing any loss, let alone 40-70 rwhp? 4. I spend 100 at the junkyard, 400 is way too much, multple videos on the channel showing transmission at that price. 5. They shift just fine at WOT if you know how to tune and use a drill. 6. They don't cost anywhere near 2k to rebuild.. I'm sure that's probably what you charge your "customers" though. 6. Your car isn't going to be very nimble sitting in the driveway with a failed transmission.
@@TheDrivewayEngineer ya you said all that in the video. Why buy a pickup truck to do a job a wheelbarrow can do. But nobody can tell you nothing cause you know it all. So offering anything is just a waste of time. Have nice day!
So you have no proof to back up your claim of 45-70 rwhp lost? Just to be clear here... You made a bunch of assertions, I responded, now you have no answers?
@@TheDrivewayEngineer well according to you, you know everything, so why should I waste both our time. Ya I have proof from my own finding on my own Dyno. But it doesnt matter because like your laughter insinuates, your the transmission master.
Great video. It's refreshing to hear other folks agree that the 60e lineup is trash. They will never be able to hold up to any amount of abuse; they just overheat way too easily. I will take a 200,000 mile stock 80e over the most kitted up 60e any day.
Exactly... Someone using a 60 in a stock application, as designed... Oooh it held up, shocker lol. Go ahead and put the beans to it and see. Which isn't cutting the muffler off your moms Tahoe :D
@@TheDrivewayEngineerweight is the 4l60's issue. If you have a 5000 pound or under vehicle and it's gonna be on a street tire on the street, it's cheaper to make a 60 hold that power and have better gearing. I'm sorry, but it's true. 80's are getting expensive as f***, and they are much more expensive to build. Look for a Vega running 7.90's next season in Washington state. There's a 3300 lb Nova that ran 8.80's all year with a 4l60. 4l80's have a higher max capability, but they are definitely not the answer to prayer that the Internet claims they are.
What's the hp limit for a 4l60e if I just want a fun daily truck with a bit more power? I have an 05 1500 with a 4.8l and a 4l60e that I plan to keep clean and running for as long as I can, do I need a 4l80e for a truck cam, gears, intake, and exhaust upgrades that will make maybe 300 to the wheels? Thanks
What about the Turbo 200-4R that's built? All the "go fast" speed places (Jegs & Summit) and performance trans shop sell them. Good for 400+ HP (they say). They are a virtural drop in for a THM 350, gives you an OD and still use the TV cable and no computer! These seem to be overlooked a lot.
I popped 3 4l60s behind a lt1 in a caprice, I got so disgusted I was going to buy a turbo 400, and to hell with the overdrive. I got made a decent offer and sold it, whereas the new owner popped another. Fuck a 4l60
A friend of mine has a procharged 6.0 Silverado. He got a Stage 3 4L60E from Monster transmission. Before he got it tuned he was already having problems. Grabbed up a $300 4L80E and has had no issues. On a different note, can we get TH350 vs TH400?
After watching my first DE video, I pulled my 99 g-van 2500 4l80e off the shelf, man I forgot how heavy that thing was. It had 240k miles not one second of trouble, ever, is a hd2 kit recommended? Got any dirt on controllers, it's going behind l-31 vortec with carb. Thanks for great diy videos.
bored me to death
Thanks for watching!
I have a twin turbo 4wd Silverado 6.0L with the 4L65E making 940hp.... 5 years strong... transmission is perfect. I just don't start it up or drive it.... Will last me forever
I swear you are making at least 1200, maybe 1500 horsies.
Why not exaggerate a bit over shots. I'm game!
Hilarious lol.
Had us in the first have not gunna lie
nailed it, unlike your skinny pedal
😂
So glad I went with a 80e with a shift kit on my build after watching this
I blew apart a 4l60e on my supercharged 98 S-10 SS 4.3 making 470whp @ 30k. I also sheared the output shaft on my tune only 4.8 RCSB 4x4 Sierra with 33s. This video is all kinds of good advice.
EGGINFOOLS not to be an asshole, but how the hell do you have a supercharged 4.3 making 470 wheel???
@@NativeDescent Vortech sq2 kit at 15psi (one of the first to have the kit back in 99-00). Port and polished heads. Comp cam 270, meth injection, 2114 Edelbrock manifold MPFI conversion speed density tune with 411pcm. I don't have that setup anymore. The timing chain went. Eventually will be working on a twin turbo setup for about 800hp when the money is right. I have a lot of the parts, just gotta get a motor built to handle it.
Why are all these companies rating there transmissions on HP? Transmissions break because of torque.
You answered your own question there,i mean GM even rates them by torque
Because that’s how they sucker you in with the HP
@@nofsgiven3855 Right on !! HP just keeps torque @ higher RPM...HP dont move shit...
I had a built 60e built by Brinkley Transmission in Kinston NC about 5 years ago for my sb Silverado with a lq9, cammed, converter 9.5 inch, full exhaust, 3.73 gears. I paid right at 1550 for the rebuild and that thing worked flawless! I raced that truck any and everywhere and it never missed a beat!
Thank you for the information I really didn't want to hear. I just dropped almost 2k on building a 4L65 that can't even stand up to my mild 5.3. I guess you never get too old to get schooled. Now to find a Turbo 400 or a Tremec TKO
Those are both great choices, you'll be happier
Literally every junk yard has some trashed trucks with 4L80E’s. Get one and rebuild it or have it rebuilt
I just picked up a 6.0 yesterday and been looking for a 4l80e I was wondering about the years.. you answered my question. Thank you
P.s seems to me then 4l80’s way cheaper in Michigan than Chicagoland area. I’ll be in three river,mi next week so hope I find one that way.
They're probably cheaper in Wisconsin too.
We have more trucks getting destroyed in wrecks and by weather, you have more people building serious street cars
I have a turbo 400 in my four wheel drive 2500 flatbed that I work and he does a great job almost completely indestructible
4l80e for me .I just found out with HD -3 transgo shift kit makes it full manual ! No computer no tps ! And lock up does work . What ever gear you put it in it will take off but I would advise to start in first and run thru your gears . You will have to run a deep pan to clear the valve body mod I'm building a 69 chevelle with 468 good balanced bottom and hydraulic roller. I think the transmission will work out for me. Thanks for sharing your videos!!
I have PTSD just looking at a 4L60e. I've been through about 5 "end all be all" builds and eventually swapped to a TH400. I can live without the overdrive vs spending thousands of dollars every year on a 4L60e.
Buy an overdrive adapter for the th400. Next.
how much did you spend on these "end all be all" 4l60's?
I removed the THM375 (THM400 with longer tailshaft) in my 1990 454SS Truck. I built a 4L80E with heavy parts and installed in my truck. I used a Compushift electronic shifter. That was in 2006. Still running good. I installed a heavy duty cooler with fan for cooling up front.
Would love to hear your thoughts on the best transmission to use on a 4x4! Love all the vids, you seem like the most honest and knowledgable guy I have listened to on TH-cam.
I guess it depends on alot of factors.
I like the 4l80 in a 4x4, but having to get new shafts and stuff, I understand why people resist swapping in that instance.
It's kind of why I just buy 3/4 4x4's to start with myself.
@@TheDrivewayEngineer also interested in 4 by 4 trans. How much hp would the 4l60 support ? Not running it hard since it come in 2nd gen tahoes and I’m sure a lot more? But do have bigger tires and rims
Hi JR, great video, wish you would have discussed the difference in 1st gear between teh 4L80 and 60E. Appreciate the upload!
Ive been through 5 4l60e's. 3 of them within a span of 8 months. Had all the bells and whistles. Roasting em with a little 4.8 with a baby bumstick. Good video
Yeah, and everyone online will still blame the builder 😂
lol... baby bumstick
Hell no, a stock 60E should be able handle that. I'd be suspecting your tune.
@@pwilly7 say what you want, I've cooked them. Stock. Built. You name it. Lot of weight to move, even for a single cab.
I wanna thank you for sharing you knowledge
It has save me lots of money
Keep making great vids 👍🏾👍🏾👍🏾👍🏾
Stock 4l80e with 200k hard towing miles will handle 600 ft lbs for at least 100 1/4 mile passes its by far the best option
I blew a 4L60E and a 65E up behind a 5.7 in an Express van before swapping a junkyard 4L85E into it. Beat the crap out of it and still going strong.
Going from a 60e to a 80e/ 85e what do you have to do I'm thinking about doing this in my 04 yukon do I have to worry about computer issues
let the tears of the 60e begin lmao
Give me that legendary TH400! I gotta a stock th400 behind a 496 big block with 565hp/600tq in a 68 Impala, I beat the hell out it, and she's still shifting like butter. Crazy thing is it the original transmission from 1968👍👍 4l80e are beast transmissions just costly.
A 4L80 is just a 400 with OD
Th 400 best transmission
Great info..I’ll head to the yard for a 4l80e
oh god, wish I found this vid before i replace the 4l60e in the truck i bought last year, thing has been nothing but problems
so stay with the 4l60e?
"Go straight to hell" lmfao YES !!!! LOL
Legit, subscribed when I heard tht 😂😂😂
Im glad you brought up S10 in your video. I have 4.3L in mine and I cruise. Nothing fancy power wise but I'm thinking about doing a 4L80E swap into it later on when the 4L60E goes out. I work construction and this truck works perfectly for what I use it for. I love the 4.3L, solid motors but I don't trust 4L60E transmissions.
I've melted my 4L60E bumping the boost (from 5 PSI to 11 PSI)of my Magnusom Supercharged 2006 Tahoe with a iron block but 799 heads BTR Truck Norris 5.3, and going 4L80E, no doubt. Great, simple, straight to the point video.
I got a 97 1 ton 454 80E brought it in 2002 with 78 thousand pulled a 38 foot 5th wheel all over the mid west to ND, SD, NE, WY, MT, ID, UT, NM, AZ for ten years now has a 160 thousand and still pulls a new one 900 miles to WY every year no problems.
Mmm men. Im a rebuilt my blazer v6. With almost beat up clutches. With reheat toque converter. And I haul trailer with carpet and tile. Heavy tile carpet. And has metal residuals. I just change filtre when it doesnt shift
I’m late in the game !
But I’m glad I found your video(s)
After watching this video I’m going with the 4l80
Thanks 👍🏼
I finally bit the bullet and getting a 4L80E myself. My local performance shop told me "if it's built right", too.
It just can't be built right, I don't care if you use the best Transmission builder, buy "Sonnax this" and "Smart shell" that, etc. If it holds up a year for me, that's being lucky. I start having shift problems long before that.
On the street, if I don't feather it, even with Mickey Thompson ET Street SS's (27.5 and 28" tires and 3.73 rear) the car will spin through 1st and 2nd and most of the way through 3rd. I replaced my 10 Bolt rear years ago and stopped breaking rear ends. The 4L60E just can't do it. I can't even finish locking my tune in with WOTs before the transmission is slipping or breaking something.
Bye 4L60E.
i'd much rather have a 4L80E, but its a massive pain in the ass to convert a 4L60E 4x4 truck to fit the 4L80E
Have a 4l85e in my tahoe after blowing 2 60e trans with a cammed 6.0 My 85e just breezes thru shifts that would make my 60e feel like it was going to shatter. The transgo kit works well but Sonnax makes a relief valve so you don't have to drill the valvebody like transgo recommends. Transgo's pressure relief could potentially cause you to burn down your trans if it sticks open.
I wouldn't use the Transgo pump stuff at all.
Not only is your content superb, but your commenters are also awesome.
2100 dollars Go directly to hell 🤣😂
I recently just put a cam in my 5.3 and did the whole valve train, nothing special really just wanted a bit more power, I got a 1999 Chevy 1500 4x4 and stuck with 60 mainly because I won’t be making crazy power prolly nothing over 350 to the wheels and that’s good for me but anything more and I would have got a 80. I beat the living shit out of this trans and it just won’t die I knew the guy who built it and said have it and I have!! Buddy’s of mine have put TONES of these in stock 5.3s and 4.3s and they just died, I killed my stock one 2 days after I bought the truck but it had lived it’s live at 300k but so far after 6 months of brutal abuse on this trans I would recommend it if your JUST doing a cam that’s it. That’s just my person experiences but everyone knows that the 80 is without a doubt the best case in all applications.
Got a 2000 Gmc 3500 work truck and not a dully ,owned since new and just keeping it tuned and full of fresh oils keeps me running down the freeway at 80 mpg with 6000 pound of load comfortable ride with 30 2X4 studs on the lumber rack and a 4L80E Allison tranny included!
I think there's a lot of folks here that are misunderstanding the 4L60 transmission, or any "factory" GM trans. In the R&D world of automotive, there's a cost that's always monitored. If you've read the headlines on the Ford ZF transmission, then you'd fully understand. The 4L series transmissions ALL have their limitations. When these transmissions are designed and built, their done so with driver comfort in mind. Every manufacturer does it. Every transmission is only designed to last through warranty. Automatics by their very design will not last forever. They will wear out eventually. Some last longer than others, it all depends on the driver habits. I've never replaced a 4L series transmission, in any vehicle I own. Neglect and abuse is what kills transmissions. Is a 4L80 the way to go in a performance application, sure! Will the 4L60 survive in a performance application, yes it will. In a mild performance application, the 4L 60 is a great transmission. If someone builds a 1000+ hp car, then the 4l60 is probably not the best choice for a transmission. The 4L80 isn't a good choice either. At WOT throttle, the 4th gear isnt used anyways. The 4L60 has limitations! If it didn't, then those transmissions would've been used in everything. The 4L60 was used in many GM car and trucks. GM would've stopped using them if they were problematic a long time ago. I saw a post about someone complaining about a 4l60 going out after mounting 33" tires and wheels. Are you aware of how heavy those wheels are? I have a set of 35" tires from a Silverado that had a blown transmission. Guess what, that trans was fried! The failure was due to the excessive TCC slippage. The wheels are heavy, and it takes a lot of horsepower to turn them. There's a lot of rotational mass that the trans has to get turning, on top of getting the vehicle up to speed. The excessive slippage caused the TCC to fail and send garbage all through the trans, consequently destroying the trans. Again neglect and abuse. You can't put gobs of hp/torque through a stock transmission, blow it up, and complain about it. Remember neglect and abuse! These transmissions were made for stock applications. 33" tires are not stock. I'm not trying to start a pissing contest with anyone, but I just don't get why people are complaining about the 4L60. It was never intended to be a performance transmission. Quit calling the 4L60 transmission garbage, when failures 99% of the time are caused by the owner.
The instant the electronic protections come off a 4l60 it's on borrowed time, period.
@@TheDrivewayEngineer Ok like I posted before, I'm not trying to start an argument here. Your claim of electronic protection removal puts it on borrowed time is based on what evidence? What protections are you referring too? I'm very close with these series of transmissions. I've been around them, inspected them, rebuilt them, and destroyed them since 1992. I think you made a decent video, but you praised the 4L80. In reality, it can only hold about 80 ft lbs more torque that the 4L60. If you know the common failure points of the 4L series transmissions, then you can actually make these transmissions withstand more. I've been a mechanical engineer for going on 40 years, with also a degree in metallurgy. If you take a thin piece of metal, flex it back and forth, eventually it's going to break. Flexing a piece of metal beyond it's serviceable limit causes microscopic stress cracks. Those cracks eventually propagate out from the original starting point, until the cracks meet. What do you think happens inside a transmission. Neglect and abuse will push the design limits of the internal components, until a failure occurs. I'm sorry, but you can't fault the 4L60 for design. Again your video wasn't bad at all, but it was very one-sided. You praised the 4L80 as being almost bulletproof, when they are not. It really wasn't a bad video.
@@demontech06 all I'm saying in the video is if you have a choice, and it's a performance application, start with the 80.
In reality with no type of power reduction on shifts, it's capable of 800 ft/lbs on the input shaft before failure.
A 60 is capable of about 2 dozen WOT 2-3 shifts at the 400 ft/lb level before clutch pack failure.
I'm not interested in, or talking about some soccer mom's stock Tahoe or grand dad's Silverado.
The transmissions work fine for what they were intended to do, give a deep first gear to under powered pigs of trucks and SUV's so they feel powerful, and give them a deep overdrive to maintain mid teen fuel economy.
They were never intended for the power people attempt to shove through them today, any fool can remove every shred of spark retard, fuel reduction, and reduce shift times to 0 on a 4l60 behind an LS with a cam and a 200 shot making 500 HP, and it will fail.
Then they want to spend 1500 in aftermarket parts on it, and another 1k in labor... When a beefier transmission exists already.
You can make anything better. You can make a POS 85 Sunbird run 10's if you want. If money doesn't matter to you, it's just a matter of spending some.
500 dollar donor trans versus 3x that... It's not a contest if you can physically fit it.
After reading two years of material on this issue you sir said it best, it's not the transmissions fault, neglect and abuse.
The rpm drop on the 1-2 shift in a 60 is unacceptable for me. Especially with newer automatics having between 6-10 gears.
The rpm drop on an 80 is even more lol
Sonnax makes a front planetary that gets them a bit closer together albeit almost $1000 for the part
Does a 4l80e bolt right up to a 5.3 if not what do I need to install it
Yes it does bolt up. You need a different flywheel to do it though.
I had an 01 Silverado with the 4.8 making under 300 hp and the 4L60 could barely handle that power without skipping gears and not going into certain gears. Do you really think it's going to be able to handle a 1000+hp build? Jesus Christ, I hated that slush box, I'm glad somebody made this video for people like me who don't study transmissions as much. When I LS swap my Cheyenne, it's either getting a 4L80 or a TKO-500 (it's already a manual truck SM-465 gearbox).
Interesting thought about the 700r4. I put a 4.8 in my K5 Blazer and kept my 700r4 with no adapter from Bowtie Overdrive, I made it for free with a welder and some scrap steel. I might post a video on it. The engine isn't making any power over stock
That would be helpful to people. I totally understand wanting to keep what you have.
@@TheDrivewayEngineer Here's my take on the 700r4 behind an LR4: th-cam.com/video/haSv8OzD0rM/w-d-xo.html
If you upgrade all the hard parts in a 60 they hold up pretty well.... But it is pretty expensive lol
My 60e puts up with 150 shot nitrous launches on et street r’s in a 5000lbs truck.... 🤷♂️
He’s right!!! I have a 4l60e built. Circle d torque converter, 2800 stall, corvette servo, shift kit, heavy duty flex plate on a 01 ws6, its a mild build but that 4l80 is better....
I subbed just because I Appriciate how spot on JR just slays the snot out of us for the stupid decisions we've made and hard earned money we have all wasted as a result. He's mad for us as much as he is at us! Rock on JR!
I have an 05 gto with the 4l65e that somebody had rebuilt and upgraded at 80k miles, car has 133k miles. When it does eventually go out, I’ll either upgrade to a 4l80 or a 6l80. I don’t anticipate it going out anytime soon as I don’t dog on it all the time, so it’ll hopefully be a couple years before I do the swap
If you've removed the protections in the tune, the clock is ticking
Also when you get into the higher end converters the 60s and 80s are the same cost.
Well I'm doing well on my current 4L60E, behind a stock 99 LS1 in a 2700 lb car with a 3600 yank stall. After 2 went out.... 1st was my fault (forgot to fill it after the swap) 2nd they (performa-)built a POS that went out in 1500 miles..... Then a local trans guy rebuilt that( fixed the problem), and it's been in the car ~8 years. Next one will be an 80 with a similar stall.
Love this channel just brutally honest its siick.
Would love to swap out my 60 to an 80 in my Silverado but the swap is a nightmare. If I had a garage I would probably do it.
Thank you for this wonderful information... very helpful for me
88 1500 Chevy 400hp only had about 15-16 700r4 and 4l60....... Great advice!!!!!!!!!!
I noticed a couple Muskegon pages popped up when you were searching towards the end. Are you in the Muskegon area?
You asked, what transmission should you run with your LSswap. What kind of motor is an LSswap? Wouldn't it be, what transmission to run with your LS not LSswap? LS swap is a verb isnt it?
I 100% agree! I've had 2 4l60's and then a upgraded 4l65 with extra clutches and all the trick stuff, in a s10 6.0 with heads and a cam basically. It lasted about 2 years with good trans temps.
ok, what failed?
What was done with the separator plate and valve body?
Everything that was bought, was bought from Dana at I believe Performance Automatic in CA, but I can't remember the name of his company for sure.The valvebody was done by him. You send it in, and he checks it, repairs whatever it needs, and sets up the hole sizing.
As for what failed, it's what always fails in these, the 2-3 clutch pack. The pressure was checked both directly after install, and a month or so after, and was told it was great.
My 4l80, just keeps taking it. I probably should change the fluid in it at this point. Never had to even think about that with a 60.
I just spend $1000 building my 4L60 but it’s in my 4x4 obs and I need it back on the road ASAP.I would love to have the 4L80 but I wasn’t sure how extensive it would be to get it all together etc
The 60e can be built to handle 700+ hp. The 80e is not exactly unbreakable, but it is tougher, for sure. Making an 80e fit into your vehicle can take some chop-work, too.
For some chassis, an 80 isn't an option, and that sucks.
Before I even watched this I was thinking 4L80E since it is the step up from 4L60E. why would you not go with the better option is beyond me? Still people do it though!
Weight and gear ratios maybe. the 60's first is 3.06, whereas the 4l80 is a thm400 with an O/D gear ratio speaking.
Monster sends you a mock up transmission basically. You need to completely tear it back down and actually make it right but they atleast send you everything together lol you get what you pay for though.If you can’t build your own,I would recommend a local salvage yard before I would buy from them.
In defense of the 4L60E performance pack basically a 4L65E in my 2002 Camaro, its got 105 thousand hard miles on it and still bangs gears like a champ. They are rated from GM for 380HP max. that means 380 and less guys, not 400.. not 450hp... 380 at the max lol. and it does that just fine, honestly for what its rated for 380hp its a great tranny my only complaint is the shifts are too soft in them, you need a shift kit... its 100% required. get a god dam shit kit. lol NOW my point of this comment was only to say for a 380hp and LESS application the 4L60E performance pack tranny and 4L65E are great, BUT if you plan on going over 4 hundo then get a 4L80 its the same price... literally the same price. I personally don't want an automatic at all, I will be tearing out a majestic 4L60E that actually works perfect and putting in a T56 manual. Because I don't give a flying fuck about drag times I care about having fun and being able to have 100% control over what gear I'm in and having 6 of them to choose from. That being said don't let people scare you into thinking a 4L60 is junk, if you have something like a 350 v8 putting out maybe 280horse power a 4L60 can and WILL handle it just fine with a corvette servo/shift kit. plus a better torque converter helps too, I have a 3000 stall currently ( for reference) I'm just saying if you have the choice go with a 4L80, if you don't, then use the 4L60, it'll be FINE.
Thank you so much, your comments are by far the most reasonable, well articulated, informed, non critical. It helped me out the most, THANK YOU.
Another thing to note is your car weight. A truck @ 380whp with the added weight probably would shell it. Weight makes a huge difference, we can put down over 300whp on little 4 cylinder autos but the car weighs almost nothing. That's why the 4l80 is so much better, it's built to be under huge trucks. I'm not trying to dis what you are saying but there is more involved to longevity of the 4L60 than WHP alone.
There are less than a handful of 4l60e builders in the country that can build a 4l60e right. But cost wise it's not in the same ball park as a 4l80e. The downside is the 4l80 is not a direct swap into some vehicles, without a bfh. Rpm is overpriced for 4l60e. Another shop in Maryland. Cahall performance transmissions. Very good 4l60e builder and decent prices. Check the site.
Yeah there are people out there who can build them, I can build one, I know the parts it takes.
I also know what they cost, and man that could buy a couple 4L80s
However, like C5 cars, etc some just can't swap that easy, and that sucks.
Thks good video i like what you said but I have payed to have the 4l60 rebuild and the up grades its a stock 5.3 in my 1974 surberbon I had bought the howlle wiring harness ill do the 4l80 next on thks
Subscribed and will make a mental note of what you said in this vid.
AWESOME my friend i learned a lot because i really didn't know the difference between the two so thanks again !!!!
I think some people are coming here expecting just a comparison of the trans on regular cars and thats where they will disagree. For example, I had my 4l60e "built"...and by built, I just mean a stage 1 at a builder that only builds GM transmissions. It was only $800 also. (Yeah, the price is cheap, but this guy cranks out these transmissions and has very low overhead. The guy only had 5 star reviews everywhere I go).Couldn't be more than happy. I've hauled up and down mountains with it and have it in my truck that hauls quite a bit at times. About 7k lbs usually. With that said, I have a bigger trans cooler, I don't run the truck hard and the engine is stock. If I had a high power engine or towed several times a week, I wouldn't even consider the 60.
60's totally work in the applications they are intended for.
Plenty of families riding around in Tahoe pulling little campers and boats for 200k.
@@TheDrivewayEngineer Yep! I'm looking at towing closer to 10k a few times a year (duramax on a trailer) and debating whether I should upgrade my truck overall. It's hard to get rid of a good old truck (5.3 1500) that you trust. I'm more worried about the suspension than the trans......all while I have a 6.0 2500hd that I'm selling lol
Did he say he's got less than $5000 dollars in his truck and takes it to the track? $5000 dollars for a truck usually means it needs new plugs, wires, tires, brakes, ect.... Just wondering, win many races? A 4L60 is not built for a drag car. Dont blame the transmission for sucking ass when used in a drag car. Blame the idiot that owns the car. Its not a bad transmission if used correctly. It does have a lower 1st gear ratio than most other transmissions. Thats better for spinning tires. Im just busting balls here. Youre correct about the 2 transmissions in this video.
I did a 4l80e swap in my 99 suburban last summer and I love it! No more 4l60e for me ever again, I have the tci standalone controller and it has worked awesome you can pretty much set it up how you want it to perform I'm getting ready to swap out my other two suburbans 4l60e for the 4l80e just that much better of a transmission!
Yeah, as much as people like to spend money once, when it comes to the transmission, they'd rather shell out repeatedly on something known to fail lol
Loved the vid Thanks, I was debating, now definitely getting the 4l80e!!
Yeah, if you can do either one... Do the 80
I always laugh when I talk to someone building a hot rod and they brag about how they are going to use a 4l60 or 700r4 and I warn them that for what they are building they will not last and every time they doubt me, well usually about 2 months later when they get their car going I will ask them how well did that trans work out and every single time they will either say "you were right that thing went bad so quick" or they will say "the guy who built the trans sucked it's not the transmissions fault" and they will live in denial. Everyone I knew who went from a th350 or 400 to a 700r4 will always end up going back to the 3 speed when the 700r4 inevitably breaks. I wish that the 4l60s and 700r4s were good because they are small for an overdrive trans and used ones are easy to find. But it has been proven thousands of times over and over again that will not last in any performance application. If you are determined to use an automatic just stick with a th350 or th400 or if you need/ really want over drive do a 4l80 swap or if your rich get a gear vendors unit for a th400. The only half way decent 700r4 I ever seen was a buddy of mine spent around $4000 for a gear star fully built 700 and after about 3 years of hard driving it blew up again. And the only half decent 4l60 I have ever seen is a buddy of mine bought a turbo Silverado that has some "built" 4l60 in it with a really expensive yank converter and he has been driving it for about 2 years now and it still is working but if you make a hard pass or try to launch it the tranny shifts really weird and sometimes it will slip really bad under load and sometimes it will shift insanely hard and others really slippery. I personally dont trust it and it's only a matter of time before it completely gives up the gusto. People just dont want to listen when people who have first hand experience with this stuff tell them to stay away from the 700r4s and 4l60 but they all decide to learn the hard way and it always costs them in the long run.
Yea it happens to everyone. They fall for the sales pitch. My friend at work has a Big Block mud truck on 44's. Dana 60 front and 12 Bolt FF Rear. Then the trans shop sold him on a TH350 🤣. When I met him I asked him why he didn't just get a junkyard TH400 or a 4L80E with an aftermarket controller? He said the trans shop said a TH400 or 4L80E is stronger stock vs stock. But a TH350 can be built to be stronger than a built TH400🤣. I laughed to hard. Sounded to me like the trans shop had a built TH350 on the shelf than no one paid the bill on and then unloaded it on him. He hasn't had an issue but fuck he spent like $1500 on the damn thing.
Turbo 350 is a stout though honestly
Well dam, I just stumbled upon this video, and I am at the point I need to get OD for my mild drive to the track, dial in foot brake s10 Blazer and 78 Malibu, and 79 Monza. Talking 300-400hp. I am retired so I need my stuff to last, if it's broke I can't win any money. I am going to rethink attempting to go 4l60e route now. If my street cars were making 500+ hp, they would be race only, no need for OD. Maybe a Gear Vendors OD add on. Got me thinking now....
For what it costs to build a 4l60 to last with sticky tires and hard launches, I'd prefer the GV unit.
@@TheDrivewayEngineer Well thanks for that much needed suggestion. I got glides, 400's, stock and stepped up 350's, a tci street fighter 350 with 20 years, 100K+miles in 4 different cars, with 5k+ passes at the strip. Any one of those with a GV would drop my highway rpm down to low 2k's where I need it. My crown jewel is the 4l80e out of my 99 2500 G-van, just waiting for a car to put it in after rebuild. Going to scrap the 4l60e plans and think GV's and more 4l80e's, thanks. Looking for a good trans guy, not opposed to travel, and I will pay for good trans-advice from a bad ass transmission man, if interested. mf
Was that a cam sound in the beginning or you rolling empty cans down the drive?
It's my all stock 305 😂
I think a lot of it has to do with good old fashioned luck. I have a built 6.0 in my Silverado. Kept destroying 60’s. Cheap at the junkers, so I just kept throwing them in. Finally, I happened to get one from a junk yard that has held up to all the abuse. 2 years and still going strong.
"but its got a beast sunshell and Alto frictions"........ good for 9 million hp....
I have a cammed 5.3/60e that I swapped in my regal . After doin a couple fun runs the 60e has delayed shifting 1-2 , no overdrive .
So I change out ab solenoids , add Corvette’s servo . Still no fix on 1-2 delay shift . And now I’m doin the pinless accumulater piston & 3-2 shifter valve . Hopefully that fixes it so I can remove and sell . I got a sexy t56 6speed waiting to be swapped in
Good luck with that.
The Driveway Engineer just got done . Still have a 1-2 shift delay . I don’t know what else it could be
I agree in every way that a 4l80e is superior to a 60e in every single way. But real talk I had never heard of so many 60e failures until I stepped foot on the internet. I had a Manifold pressure switch failure in one and stripped a stator shaft on another. That's the only 2 issues I recall myself having.
Everyones welcome to leave the "because your shits not fast enough to break them" reply that's perfectly fine. I know my shits not fast. My point is I had never heard 60e horror stories until the internet.
I've got one right now that I pulled from a pick n pull with 230k+ on it. Cooler, vette servo, 3200 stall, and an HD2 were the only changes I've made. I've got a th400 on standby but so far I've put 1200 miles on it and 3, 13.xx second passes.
And truth be told if I had never stepped foot on the internet I would've never thought twice about breaking it.
4 pinion planet can handle 650 hp. Before you say I'm wrong. A th350 use the same rear planet as a 700 and 4L60 use. As long as you keep the filter clean. 4 pinion planet will hold up just fine.
Exactly what I needed to know
Good information
Thanks
as far as autos go...powerglide, th400, or 4l80e or if going manual tkx, tr6060, or t56mag...its just that easy
Im taking my 4l60 out tax time 4l80 coming soon
LS3 out of a 2012 grandsport I have the 80E stage 2 and my stall converter was about $950
I'd love to do a 80e swap, but I don't like the 1st gear ratio it has. 3.06 for a 60e vs 2.48 for an 80e. Now if anyone knows if a company offers built 80e's that have a 1st ratio closer to 3.06 I'd jump on it. Changing gear rations in my differentials is a task. The rear I know everyone will say is a piece of cake but I got 4x4 so I'd have to do that too and the front diff I got isn't a piece of cake like a rear end. I got 4.10s not really looking to jump higher than that... not trying to be banging 3k rpms at 70 on the highway lol.
Ok thanks for the video . Now my question is I have a stock 4.3 and I rebuilt my 4l60 . Now in your opinion is it worth switching to the 4l80 ? Now I love to drop an ls engine in here one day.
I'd do both at the same time
so i have a 4l60e on a 4.8. its done for. i have a buddy who has a build 4l80. what all do i need for a swap cause ik its not a plug and play deal. how much am i looking at spending?
The flexplate for a 4L80, a segment swap in your tune, some wiring, a yoke for your driveshaft... Misc stuff
Great info! Thank you!
Do a vid on setting up a manual shift th400 for road racing.
I am sooooo glad that i watched your video!!
Great info, so the torque converter with the 4L80e can't be used on a ls swap in a small car?
My Iroc came w 4L60e that supposedly was “built” to handle 700hp. Im not drinking that kool aid. But it does appear to have some new parts on it. Anyway… I only want to make 350-400 hp all said and done. Plenty enough for me to have fun. Should I stick with what I have, and put it all together and run? Or should I scrap it, and look for something else? I don’t want to modify the tunnel to fit a 4L80
You don't have to modify the tunnel to get an 80 in
I would never take a working transmission out for fun because it might be a problem later
So, I’m 16. About to buy my first truck from a family friend. It’s an 03 ext cab Silverado 1500 4x4 (not Z71) with a 5.3. Don’t know what tranny, but would guess a 4L60. I’m going to have fun with it(and in it😁👙)It’s got 157k miles on it, it’s a southern truck and has some rocker rust. I can tell it needs new front tie rods from driving it. It needs tires, the gauge cluster is broken, the paint sucks, and needs more things. It’s not quite a beater. I’m not like most teens. I don’t want or need a loud obnoxious exhaust, I don’t need or want a huge lift kit to make my 🍆 20in longer, I don’t need fancy light bars, you get the point. I work at a mower repair shop and work on cars, race cars, etc. I’ll be doing everything this truck needs MYSELF. I will definitely be doing things to milk power out of the 5.3, for fun, experience, and towing big, heavy racecar trailers. I laugh at my peers who have little v6 mustangs their parents bought for them and brag about the lambo doors they had a shop put on for them, along with straight pipes. They will 💩 their pants when my rusty work truck gaps them. Back to my question: The tranny has never been replaced.(Don’t think the trans fluid has ever been changed either. Doesn’t seem like it’s ever run very extremely hot, but the fluid looked like it had been in there for 157k moderately fine miles). When I do blow the automatic transmission, what do you think is my best option? Rebuild the stock tranny? Pull a 4L80 out of a crashed truck? Would a newer 4L80 out of a 2014 Chevy/gmc, for example be compatible with this 2003? I haven’t worked on/done too much research on GM transmissions, but I’m assuming I’ll need some other driveline components to accommodate the 4L80 trans...right? What will I need? Will it also need an adapter plate to the engine? Will I need to reprogram the CPU to work properly with the 4L80? Will I need an entire different CPU? Will a 4L80 consume more wHP than a 4L60? Unlike my peers, I’m not trying to go fast on the highway. That’s for the race track, in a race car. Thanks in advance for your help. If nobody answers, I can figure it out on my own, anyway. Y’all have a great day.
So a 2014 will have a 6L80, not a 4L80.
In a 4x4,the simplest thing to do, is have someone rebuild the 60 for 6-800 bucks, and get on with your life.
The even simpler thing to do is nothing, if it isn't broke, leave it alone.
While you drive it and work on it, grab a 4L80 maybe, grab the right transfer case, grab driveshafts from a 2500 version of your bodystyle.
Piece by piece collect it all and swap it when you're ready.
But don't think because 4l60s suck, they do, but it doesn't mean certain death or anything.
Treat it like it's your only vehicle and you don't want to go back to walking and you'll be ok.
Thank you!!! I’ll do what I need to do for the 4L80 swap when the unfortunate time comes. I won’t rush it. Enjoy your Halloween! I subbed :)
This is exactly why 80s are getting harder to find. Every Joe has one now and probably a second one their not using. Remember, these transmissions are also 15-20 years old. They dont shift when you ask them too at WOT, they are heavy, Accelleration is slower from all the heavy rotating mass of the oversize 80 parts, and you WILL lose a minimum of 40-70 HP running one over your competitors. And if your like most Joe's, you'll put one behind a stock LS cause your extra smart. Waisted fuel mileage, waisted power, slower acceleration, over weight and lazy driving experience...but hay at least you got an 80 right! 😜
So you spend 400 at the junk yard, then when you realize the trans shifts like crap, you'll spend 2 grand rebuilding it, have to take the trans out three times and reinstall it twice, and still be down 40-70HP or more depending on your builder and your wallet.
4L60E will keep your car much more nimble, you'll have more power, faster acceleration, and a lighter car and a much more fun driving experience.
Badger Tuners 😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂
Ok, we'll go through this bit by bit, since I'm a little bored now.
1. Wasted.. Waisted would be like wearing a corset or something. Wasted is needless loss.
2. How do you know they're getting harder to find? Why are you looking for them if they're so garbage?
3. Let's see a dyno sheet of a before and after 80 swap showing any loss, let alone 40-70 rwhp?
4. I spend 100 at the junkyard, 400 is way too much, multple videos on the channel showing transmission at that price.
5. They shift just fine at WOT if you know how to tune and use a drill.
6. They don't cost anywhere near 2k to rebuild.. I'm sure that's probably what you charge your "customers" though.
6. Your car isn't going to be very nimble sitting in the driveway with a failed transmission.
@@TheDrivewayEngineer ya you said all that in the video. Why buy a pickup truck to do a job a wheelbarrow can do. But nobody can tell you nothing cause you know it all. So offering anything is just a waste of time. Have nice day!
So you have no proof to back up your claim of 45-70 rwhp lost?
Just to be clear here... You made a bunch of assertions, I responded, now you have no answers?
@@TheDrivewayEngineer well according to you, you know everything, so why should I waste both our time. Ya I have proof from my own finding on my own Dyno. But it doesnt matter because like your laughter insinuates, your the transmission master.
Great video. It's refreshing to hear other folks agree that the 60e lineup is trash. They will never be able to hold up to any amount of abuse; they just overheat way too easily. I will take a 200,000 mile stock 80e over the most kitted up 60e any day.
Exactly... Someone using a 60 in a stock application, as designed... Oooh it held up, shocker lol.
Go ahead and put the beans to it and see.
Which isn't cutting the muffler off your moms Tahoe :D
@@TheDrivewayEngineerweight is the 4l60's issue. If you have a 5000 pound or under vehicle and it's gonna be on a street tire on the street, it's cheaper to make a 60 hold that power and have better gearing. I'm sorry, but it's true. 80's are getting expensive as f***, and they are much more expensive to build. Look for a Vega running 7.90's next season in Washington state. There's a 3300 lb Nova that ran 8.80's all year with a 4l60. 4l80's have a higher max capability, but they are definitely not the answer to prayer that the Internet claims they are.
What's the hp limit for a 4l60e if I just want a fun daily truck with a bit more power? I have an 05 1500 with a 4.8l and a 4l60e that I plan to keep clean and running for as long as I can, do I need a 4l80e for a truck cam, gears, intake, and exhaust upgrades that will make maybe 300 to the wheels? Thanks
What about the Turbo 200-4R that's built? All the "go fast" speed places (Jegs & Summit) and performance trans shop sell them. Good for 400+ HP (they say). They are a virtural drop in for a THM 350, gives you an OD and still use the TV cable and no computer! These seem to be overlooked a lot.
Takes a 200 cable adapter if you have DBC, no way to make it work if you're DBW.
Regardless, no one is selling them good to 400hp for 500 bucks.
I popped 3 4l60s behind a lt1 in a caprice, I got so disgusted I was going to buy a turbo 400, and to hell with the overdrive. I got made a decent offer and sold it, whereas the new owner popped another. Fuck a 4l60
A friend of mine has a procharged 6.0 Silverado. He got a Stage 3 4L60E from Monster transmission. Before he got it tuned he was already having problems. Grabbed up a $300 4L80E and has had no issues.
On a different note, can we get TH350 vs TH400?
I can do that, it basically comes down to gear ratios though.
After watching my first DE video, I pulled my 99 g-van 2500 4l80e off the shelf, man I forgot how heavy that thing was. It had 240k miles not one second of trouble, ever, is a hd2 kit recommended? Got any dirt on controllers, it's going behind l-31 vortec with carb. Thanks for great diy videos.
HD2 kit is always recommended.
No controller is better than the other, get one you like and go with it
@@TheDrivewayEngineer Outstanding.....more info I can really use....gonna do it. Thanks
Thank you for putting this information out
I have a 4l80 in my 800hp Grandnational and I love it
I personally run 60s but that is mainly because I refuse to cut up the floor to make the 80 fit in my cars.
This is the same debate with 350 vs 400.